>every friend abandoned him>Takes care of some guy's daughter Wtf was this shit
Pretty sure it was self imposed exile.
>>730822176Writers were force to put him in the game because of marketing. His story was done and they were going to have a fresh start with Apollo
>>730822176>Looks totally different>Acts totally differentWhy even have him be Phoenix?>Marketing!FUCK!
*hits pipe*
He was shoehorned into the plot by mandate from Capcom. Most likely his role was retrofitted from a scrapped character.
>>730822176Trucy was cute. Can't just leave her.
>>730822274He doesn't even act that different, you can just see his internal monologue in the first trilogy.
It's kind of weird that Trucy took his last name.
I don’t mind hobo count of Monte actuator Phoenix even if it’s a bit weird. What always bothered me about AJ was how much of a psychopath Klavier is. >guitar solos while sentencing an innocent to death And yet probably has the most favorable portrayal of a prosecutor yet he’s likely the second most evil after manfred
>>730822496Hurr forehead propaganda.
>>730822254They tried to fix it with dd and soj but let's be honest he fucking wasted SEVEN years of his life after that fantastic trilogy ending, betraying Mia's teachings and apparently none of his friends even bothered with himZak was also a fucking terrible character
His regression in the games after is weirder
>>730822309Why not just make phoenix Apollos teacher. Literally that's itBut I guess capcom like baits like with Evil Dante for dmc4 and Evil Chris for RE8 trailer kek
>>730822176A Man Denied His Proper Ending
>>730822540His negligence directly caused several people to die and multiple others have their life permanently altered in a negative fashion and he never apologizes for it
>>730822550How is Iris still imprisoned and not fucking Phoenix's brains out
>>730822626Because now that they brought him back they needed an excuse for why you aren't playing as him.
>>730822718Japan: It's okay because he's blonde and hot.
>>730822176Hobohodo was PEAK and anyone who insists otherwise is a mouthbreathing faggot.
>>730822496What bothers me about Klavier is that he's just such a nothing of a character.Think of all the (non-tutorial) prosecutors in Phoenix Trilogy. By the time each game is done, we know what their deal is, why they are practicing the law the way they do, why became the way they are...Meanwhile with Klavier? By the end of AA4, we just know that... he's just a fucking rock star! Nothing else!What a shitty fucking character, and rubbish writing.
What were Edgeworth and Maya doing during those years?It's weird that they were nowhere to be found
Thena my wife
Where did all the fun writers fuck off to after the first three games?
>>730822821I hope our next prosecutor is just a highly autistic woman.
>>730822821Ok but first, let's watch that video tape of the concert again.
>>730822835Uh, then why is she pointing at me?Checkmate.
>>730822954...AA4 really was such a downgrade in all aspects.Full motion evidence in final case of first game? You could pause it, rewind, fast forward... Basically what you'd expect from a video!And you could also view the actual evidence in 3D, and that played into some puzzles!Yes, I know it was extra case added to the DS re-release, but fuck, AA4 was made from ground up for DS, so you'd think they'd manage something at least as impressive. But nope, most of the extra features were just random one-off gimmicks.I am still sour.
>>730822821In general the writing after 3 became more fantastical and also lazier. It feels like they ran out of truth and justice related character troupes and started supplementing them with wacky character troupes instead. I checked out at the "Lawyer Highschool" arc of DD with it's talk of the "dark age of law" like it's a faction in a battle manga.
>>730823261Music was fantastic though
>>730823261What's worse is that bonus case was supposed to be a preview of the fancy new content they added in AA4.
>>730822821I agree. Which is why I think him not acknowledging his direct role in…basically causing the main plot of the entire game, is so fucking weird. Hell, they could have made him an actual twist final “villain”.Think about it. His testimony is actual crucial to uncovering Kristoph’s plot. He knew his brother was distraught and obsessed over losing the case to Phoenix. He knew the way his brother approached him which extremely dubious foreknowledge of the “forged evidence” was extremely suspicious. Yet he deliberately played his part to further his own career and get a big win over the prestigious Phoenix Wright. Would’ve actually made his laissez-faire attitude towards…convicting people to death make sense. It makes sense that the twin brother of a manipulative and obsessive piece of shit also shares some of these traits. They don’t even need to make him outright evil, his role in the final case could have been a redemptive confession of sorts if they want to keep him as the good guy truth seeker. As it’s written he’s just a shitty character. How the fuck does someone as smart as him NOT sniff out how hilariously suspicious his brother (who he knows better than anyone) is. Honestly I’d just make him a cold blooded psycho who’s actually what Kristoph presents himself as. (Whereas kristoph is actually the highly emotional twin presenting as calm one, the passionate rock star is the calm and controlled one).
>>730822821That's actually something I like about Klavier. For the first time, the game has a prosecutor who's a fairly normal guy with no existing animosity or history with the protagonist.
>>730823334While I didn't care for the dark age of law stuff.Its not that different from how certain cases from the og trilogy were treated. >This case ____ from 10 years ago changed the landscape of courtroom law!)
>>730823474Normal people don’t air guitar when people get sentenced to death
>>730822176>>730822550Where are you guys getting this idea that his friends abandoned him? The game shows that Phoenix and Maya are still friends, as evidenced by all the Steel Samurai DVDs and merch at his hospital bed.
>>730823664You may be shocked to discover this, but Ace Attorney is a comedy game and not real life.
>>730822176It was good though, the way he ruined Kristoph at the end was extremely satisfying. Nick is just too traumatized for relationships I guess.
>>730823458>As it’s written he’s just a shitty character. How the fuck does someone as smart as him NOT sniff out how hilariously suspicious his brother (who he knows better than anyone) is.it's realistic anonimagine your brother was a massive psycho murderer. most people would be in denial of that.
>>730823494Nothing in the OG trilogy was as ridiculous as "we're just gonna start letting people lie and submit fake evidence". Sure the whole "all crimes must be solved and a verdict handed down in under 3 days" thing is pretty crazy, but it at least logically tracks with the excuse given in lore for it.
>>730823673Because he's a broke "grape juice" addict who only gets money from people "who he plays cards with"
>>730823834I am aware of that, even within the series no prosecutor is as blatantly dismissive and outright comedic. Air guitar dabbing on someone’s grave is a step above scoffing or taking a sip of coffee
>>730823940Von Karma makes wisecracks the entire time he's trying to get his own student sentenced to death.
>>730823870I agree you could go down this route, but why isn’t he characterized this way? He’s a nothingburger. The thing is though, he’s not really in denial at all and is part of taking his brother down (which he also doesn’t seem too upset about lmao). He’s generally lacking in emotion which is why I think the psycho route makes more sense
>>730822176This game almost killed the franchise for me
>>730824023As I said earlier, klavier I see as the second most evil. Manfred has personal relationship and stakes when doing this. Usually, before he starts to get personally tangled up in the case, he’s extremely blunt and curt.
>>730824074wheres part 2
>>730822626They should have done this starting with DD. Instead of reintroduce him as a RETARD who LEARNED NOTHING, have him be Mia 2.0. His story was done. AJ was a fine send-off.
>>730824074but it did kill the franchise
>>730822176It wouldn't even be that bad if it wasn't 7 whole fucking years that passed. Why make the time gap that long?
>>730823870what if he wasn’t in denial but just still wanted to protect his brother, and only breaks after more and more people keep getting hurt, what if…guilty love his fucking in universe song wasn’t about some fake relationship, but was actually about his brother.There’s so many ways they could have taken klavier but then did nothing
What exactly was the narrative significance of making Apollo and trucy half siblings again?
>>730824880Basically this. AJ was, despite the name, Phoenix's story just told from another perspective. In DD it became extremely jarring however because now had to from the mastermind who engineered a seven year revenge scheme back to sweating rookie lawyer again.
>>730825685Why exactly is Phoenix waiting?Apollo is dangerously close with his daughter.
>>730823334this, the series sucked after 3.
>>730825762DD does make it jarring but doesn't soj make it clear that when Apollo faces Phoenix that it's typically very intimidating?
>>730825785My man Nick knows incest is wincest and is just helping nature along, reassuring society he will do as it wants and keeping it out of it
>>730824880Resetting him to the status quo was the objective, not a method towards a greater aim. Fujo series don't like characters to change.
>>730825785He's waiting for just the right time to pull the trigger so Apollo walks in to a contradiction
>>730825785He knows that capcom wouldn't dare to write their characters into romantic relationships and trigger the fujos
Why do people assume Phoenix's friends had nothing to do with him just because you don't see them in 4? Apollo (the POV character) and Phoenix weren't even close and Phoenix wasn't even around for most of the game.
I can't believe people give DD and SoJ shit when Apollo Justice is the most boring, unsatisfying game in the franchise. I hate the writing in every way possible and I hate that they couldn't just commit to giving Apollo a full game when two of the cases heavily involve Phoenix.The only things I like about AJ is that it has some really nice sprite animations and the objection theme is fantastic, but that's absolutely it. I had a great time with DD compared to AJ.
>>730822176I thought AA4 was whatever but I fucking loved the direction it was taking the series and Hobo Phoenix was cool. Too bad AA5 completely backtracked all that bullshit. I don't even want AA7, I'd rather just keep doing TGAA.
>>730826201DD is the worst game in the series you might just be fucked in the head
>>730824030but didn't you see how fucking mad he got about his guitar??? bro was seething
>>730823673Cause none of they showed up in game? Nick was living like a bum for seven years, and no one tried to get him back up on his feet? It paints the worst picture possible for a character you spent three games playing, and making an "ace attorney."
>>7308262014 has one of, if not straight up the best case 1 in the series.Even if it doesn't make much sense when you look back and see how much retardation was in a room with both kristopher and zack in it (who keep in mind is trying to sabotage the little remaining life of the guy taking care of his daughter). It still had a ton of insane plot twists and hype that left you motivated to play the rest of the game and find out what happened to phoenix.And again, while it ends up in stupidity, it did feel really cool to play with a post tnt phoenix that actually has his shit together.
>>730826449where would they show up?
>>730826473DD on the other hand doesn't really have anything, you get 3d graphics and anime cutscenes, yupee! I guessBut the best case is the dlc one and there's nothing plot relevant to motivate you ever, plus you have very limited exploration options, it's very easy and just feels like you're being railroaded through a disney theme park attraction for kids.
>>730826481Figure it the fuck out, writers who intentionally decided to destroy the protagonist of your previous trilogy. They're the ones who dug this hole for themselves. Capcom understood this all was all a horrible decision, and essentially tried to retcon as much of it as humanly possible afterward, but you can't undo this level of character assassination without just directly saying, "it didn't happen."
>>730826473I have the complete opposite stance on 4's case 1. I absolutely hated it and the entire presentation where it basically becomes Phoenix babying Apollo through the first case. It's supposed to be a situation for a new protagonist to show he's got his shit together and the whole sequence is just Phoenix showing up to steal the show and guide Apollo through it. I wasn't a fan of it like most people seem to be.
"Apollo" trilogy > Original trilogy
>>730826605>character assassinationAA4 Phoenix is better than trilogy Phoenix.
trucy accepted wright a little too fast imo
>>730826473>who keep in mind is trying to sabotage the little remaining life of the guy taking care of his daughterZak's actions are totally logical for how muhc of a petty ass he is, just like Kristoph. Screwing over Phoenix doesn't matter because Trucy is set for life after she inherited the magic repertoire.
>>730822176Humiliation ritual
>>730826731I guess that difference of opinion is really what it boils down to. I was fine waiting for case 2 to see Apollo on his own with how insane case 1 moved. Seeing phoenix in the state he was in, jumping to attack our own teacher we barely just met, getting a glimpse of phoenix's old spark while also seeing him forge evidence. First case and already so much crazy things are happening.Then case 2 is just disappointing, most of what I remember is again phoenix getting hit by a car. And the case 3 is a complete trainwreck and you're just begging to see what is up with phoenix which then leads to the very disappointing case 4.Thats Apollo Justice to me, a loud bang that slowly fades away.While DD never had a bang to begin or to end with.
>>730826880You just like an entirely different character. He's not Nick. And there was no reason to destroy Nick for this guy.
>>730827068>While DD never had a bang to begin or to end with.But it did, the courtroom exploded.
>>730827174(got me there)
>>730822176Should I play the DLC of DD after case 2 or 5?
>>730822176This isn't Phoenix Wright and it will never be. I will never accept it. It's some random hobo pretending to be him.
>>730827103He doesn't act like a totally different character. Your fanfic isn't reality.
>>730827458They took the titular "ace attorney," and had him be a hobo for longer than he ever was an attorney (canonical fact: Nick was disbarred seven years. He was not an attorney for seven years). Imagine thinking the writers here knew what they were doing. Imagine thinking the writing here was smart. "Phoenix Wright: Ace Attorney." ...Bar pianist and cards players for longer than he was ever an attorney. Whoops.
Choose your fighter
>>730827703Simeon Saint only killed bad people, so he's a-okay in my book
>>730827640>aaaaahhhhhh they made the character have meaningful progression I'm literally going insane save me niggerman!!!
>>730827703The women are all zero dimes here
>>730827703Gant > Von Karma > Engarde > Kristoph > Alba > Simeon > Dahlia > Phantom > Ga'ran
>>730827897"Meaningful progression." You mean stopping being an attorney. Stopping helping people. And just living a humiliation ritual for seven years. I don't need to justify how awful this all was. Capcom understood, and tried to retcon as much as humanly possible, without just saying, "it was all a dream."
>>730827703I thought this retard was funny. When he was just some retard, that is.
>spend hours in the final case of Dual Destinies discussing if Athena and/or someone else could have entered the room before Blackquill arrived to Athena's mom's murder scene>Once we finally establish that it's possible Athena and someone else entered the room Edgeworth just goes "huh oh, I guess the police never checked the camera footage from before Blackquill arrived"This would have saved hours of discussion. You can't make this shit up. No wonder we live in the Dark Age of the Law
>>730828005>we have buzz lightyear at home
>>730822176It was implied that Edgeworth was still around, he saw Gumshoe here and there, but he refused financial help.
Honestly I never know how you guys remember all these case by case details
>>730828234They play the games.Crazy I know. Who the fuck still plays video games lol
>>730827703I could beat all of these up 1 on 1 except maybe for Gant
>>730828402I played most of the games a long time ago, who tf replays puzzle games
>>730822742Phoenix is gay.
>>730828208The one that always gets me is Emma like ya Nick isn't practicing law anymore, but she still lives in the same town. They both just let themselves crumble down into crippling depression.
>>730828234Played most of the games at a very important time in my life so I have a stupidly good memory of most of the major plot points.
>>730828501They are more visual novels than puzzle games. Second playthroughs are fun since you catch more stuff when you know who to trust or not and you can find dialogue you missed first time around.Going beyond that is autistic though I did replay the trilogy a fair bit. Maybe I replayed AJ once. And I've never replayed any of the others.I have had a mind to replay them again to study moonrunes though.
>>730822176better question. why is phoenix wright as a jobless hobo a much much better chartacter than him as a lawyer?
>>730828052Blackquill, a samurai denied his katanaGive it back to him already crapcom
>>730828735Because you can't hear his inner monologue when he's freaking out so he comes off as more competent and mysterious. Really helps bring the poker face bluff master persona into reality.
>>730824074>>730824985I like how people try to spin this narrative when after apollo justice the series went on almost a yearly release until it ended on Great Ace Attorney 2
>>730828906AA4 to AA5 was 6 years back when game series had yearly releases.Edgeworth was fun but a spinoff and the sequel never made it over and we had to wait on a fan translation. Trilogy is just a rerelease. And Layton was in development hell and it had Layton in it.If you were there it was understandable to doompost about it
>>730828005>I WAS ACTUALLY LE FAKER ALL ALONG!>ALL THOSE TIMES I HELPED YOU AS YOUR FRIEND, ENDURING YOU WERE CLOSER TO THE TRUTH, INSTEAD OF JUST LETTING YOU FAIL >ALL PART OF MY AMAZING GENIUS KEIKAKU MACHINATIONS TO KEEP MYSELF HIDDEN Has this ever fucking worked for a mystery villain? Fulbright feels like they were writing the game as they devved it, and realized they still needed a villain by the time they got to the end.
>>730828906And you notice that every release took place before AA4? Because the time skip, and character assassination of Nick ruined everything. They had to dig themselves out of their grave with DD by deleting hobo Nick.
>>730829069Say what you want about it being a spinoff, the Edgeworth games were just as long and elaborated as the series main titles. Same with Layton vs Phoenix Wright.They may lack the same impact in the overarching narrative, but as games they're even on quality and therefore as much development time made by the team.The series never really went longer than two years without pumping out a game in some capacity.>>730829232The rereleases are on par for the course. Do you forget that the DS games we got in the west ARE re releases of their own?This timeline isn't even including those. From the western perspective we began in 2004 and got a yearly game until Apollo Justice in 2008
>>730827258Honestly, either order is fine. The DLC case doesn't spoil anything and fits very naturally with the rest of the game. The only downside I can think of if you play it in chronological order is that it makes Pearls appearing in the final case less joking.
>>730829325What are you talking about?>Edgeworth games? Takes place before the time skip>Professor Layton? Takes place before the time skipApollo came out, EVERYONE realized they fucked up. Spent the next six years doing everything humanly possible to not engage with that part of the timeline.
>>730822954S u g a r . . . S u g a r . . .
>>730824074I can't remember the plot to AA4 at all, no way it was this dumb.
Look at all these people who haven't become a beanie wearing burnout at some point in their lives, have you even lived
Knock up some lawyers, here, put a baby in this area.
>>730829498>enters the scene of the crime but doesn't get rid of the ignator and powder on the floor, instead moves to body to make it match some dumb songHe is so RETARDED
>>730829474What do you mean, Miles Edgeworth post time skip didn't even existed at the time. It's simply them exploring the characters and the setting they already have rather than forcing the story to progress in a spinoff of all things.
Nothing Apollo Justice (the game) does fits within the greater picture and everything the game brings to the table got course corrected almost immediately after.You can blame capcom for forcing Takumi's hand, you can blame him, or you can blame the following games. But it is what it is.At least the soundtrack is excellent. And the first case is kino.
>>730830651...Yes. They made a spin off series that did not advance to the time skip, and stuck with the period of the original trilogy. They easily could have not done that. They could have decided to make a game exploring Edgeworth, seven years later. But they didn't. They also didn't have to make a Professor Layton game that featured Nick. But they did. And they also didn't have to make Apollo Justice's sequel title itself "Phoenix Wright." Cause Capcom fucking understood they royally screwed up with how they wrote Nick in AA4.
>>730822176he was morally responsible for what happened to the daughter's dad by failing to defend him so he had to take care of her
>>730830458Imagine the sex
>>730830537And still not the dumbest in person in the case considering they all kept insisting on persecuting the disabled mini twink of using a shoulder dislocating gun to kill a giant interpol agent.
>>730828234I played the 8 games back in high school with an emulator and then I played them again when all the remasters came out recently
>>730830841you can tell the fucker was kinda done>>730830913What are you even trying to get at with this dumb tangent anyways? I already showed you that the series went on to release and relelase before and after the first Apollo every single year even past the last game in the series was published.The series was never "killed off" by any of its games, if anything it was overdone and exhausted itself for 15 years untilt he playerbase grew tired of the games and the development team decided to move on to other projects. It was a fad, simple as.
>>730831319What are you even fucking trying to say? Apollo released in 2008. Everyone disliked the direction it went in. The next six years were spin offs and remasters until DD came out, and tried to undo literally as much of Nick's baggage in AA4 as possible.
>>730822176Fucking hated this game. Apollo didn't even get to do anything and everyone was a dick to him. He has no motivation for being a Lawyer. The sibling plot twist was hot garbage and did more damage to the game. Phoenix acts like an asshole and keeps stealing the spotlight. The build up to everything was a huge waste of time for the final case. The pay off sucked.
>>730831906>He has no motivation for being a LawyerTHIS GUY DOESN'T BELIEVE APOLLO IS MOTIVATED ENOUGH. KICK, CAPCOM, ADD ANOTHER BACK STORY
>>730822176He was a better man>>730822237in reality, this. Nips love the "punished man" trope, look at Yakuza.
>>730822496Darklaw was pretty fuckedAlso Damon Gant was a prosecutor.
>>730822496He blackmails Brushell on the stand to try to shut him up he is such a complete piece of shit despite what the game desperately wants you to think kek
>>730829090He had to do it to gain trust, his whole plan was maximizing trust in any way he could.
>>730831503And what of it? How the direction of the stories affect your feelings is completely irrelevant to this conversation. The game franchise was still doing yearly release nevertheless. The fact remains the series was not only alive, but it pushed the most content it ever did.
>>730829090Eh when the case personally affects him he immediately starts fucking it up for everybody . Why would he care about letting L'Belle and Spartan Man go free
>>730832603And all of that content had to be written around the fact that the writers fucked up the franchise. It's kind of hilarious. The comparison between AA and the Star Wars sequel trilogy really are apt. "Disney released like, five Star Wars shows after The Rise of Skywalker. The franchise is thriving!"
>>730822176>interesting character development of Phoenix being disillusioned with the legal system>proceeding games ignore this development and revert him back to his original self like nothing happenedFucking. WHY?
I like how they give him supreme control over the justice system and you're just supposed to roll with it
>>730834470You had people whining about how he acted in AA4. Same for Ema in AA4, which is why when she returned in AA6, they made her act closer to the version before the timeskip in comparison.
>>730834038and that's completely and utterly irrelevant. whine about it as much as you want, but the series trhived for 9 years after AA4 despite being released 7 years after the first one.You wanna know a fact that stings? The apollo justice trilogy sold better on it's initial releases than the phoenix wright series after its official releases.
The only game of the series I never played is the crossover with Professor Layton, should I?
>>730834776It's fine. Ideally you're at least familiar with both series, before playing it though.
Apollo Justice has the best sprites of the whole series. Without a doubt.
>>730834623The "Apollo Trilogy" is two games starring Phoenix Wright. The only bad game in the franchise is AA4. Which Capcom recognized, and tried to write out of existence as much as possible. It took them six years to attempt to figure it out, and let the damage that game caused simmer down.
>>730834470>>730834612"Interesting character development." They just rewrote and broke the characters. You are the fucking midwits who think becoming sad and depressed is the natural progression for every character ever.
