>antagonist genuinely has a point and isnt wrong>but the protagonist also needs to be justified in opposing him so there can be a cool final bossfightthis is the one part of writing that fucks me. I cant finish the last stage of my game
who the fuck cares about the story lmao. Just make the villain a racist or a greedy business man or something.
Both characters lack information about the others plight.
>>730828370Allow me to help youpic rel
Just because the antagonist has a point doesn't mean their methods are right. "The ends justify the means" can immediately place a character with a good idea in a villainous light once those means are known.
>>730828370Make the villain an extremist that doesn't mind sacrificing a life to achieve a goal.Make that sacrificed life someone the player cares about.But try to be more unique than hurr love interest. Make it a cool shopkeeper that gave you free shit or a cool, competent captain of the guard or something.
>>730828370Just do something else for a while anon. Maybe it will hit you hard while you're having fun
>>730828370>antagonist wants to save his homeland/people and the only way of doing is its by defeating the protagonist's homeland>protagonist has to do the same >both are affected by propaganda/rumors tragedy and anger due to each other's actions so there is no chance or interest to resolve things peacefully and this >>730828451
>>730828649Ends always justify the means. What people lack is the foresight to see all ends besides their goal.
Who cares nigga, just write what makes sense to you and what you think is cool. At least then you'll be satisfied, fuck other people.Study antagonists you like and try to pinpoint what drew you to them. Look at them from a broader angle and examine what makes them feel believable in the game's world (or the book/movie's world, don't limit yourself to only video games for examples).Think of instances in the real world where you might disagree with something despite there being justifiable reasons for it to exist, and think of who benefits from it existing, what would happen if someone were to take a stand against them, etc.Also never ask this place for any meaningful advice on writing. Hardly anyone here is capable of articulating an opinion more complex than "[current popular thing] is slop/reddit/insert buzzword of the month". If you try to press them on why they dislike the writing of a specific antagonist they're just going to reply with more buzzwords or (at best) an opinion they were spoon fed from a video essay/talking head.
>>730828678>n-no don't make it a woman>make it a manly man instead!!sounds like fag talk to me bro
>>730828370Antagonist is a hungry monster that eats people to live. Protagonist is a person that wants to not get eatenCongrats, your very deep morally gray "everyone is right" story
>>730828649How about doing the opposite? The "villain" is so principled that they refuse to solve problems.
>>730828370Just because he has a point doesn't make him moral. Maybe things WOULD be better if he ruled with an iron fist instead of the bumbling politicians, but that doesn't mean you have to just roll over and let him. Just because he has an answer doesn't automatically make it the best answer.
>>730828370A villain can be easily right about something but take it to an extreme that's untenable. Victims of traumatic pasts are often easily explained as this. It doesn't even really need to be grounded or realistic. The motive can be irrational, as long as it makes sense for the character to behave like that. IE>Victim of war perpetuates more war to stop the perceived "badguy">Victim of human trafficking must control human trafficking to prevent worse human trafficking
make you both fight for who's village has to be sacrificed to save the world
>>730828370Dude just make it personal, it's that simple
>>730828370Its shrimple, the antagonist is my enemy and must be defeated. Even if he or she isnt evil I he or she are opposed to me. Foolproof.
>>730828370It's a good thing if a portion of the players think the villain was right.In fact it's even more kino if after defeating the villain, the protagonist who was a goody two-shoes up to this point ends up doing mostly the same thing the villain would have done.
>>730828451>about the others plight.i dont like this, what if i want them to clash while being fully aware of what is going on? what if one guy spilled the beans and tried to recruit the other, but was denied?
>>730828370Just make the antagonist a demon, who cares if hes right if the boss fight is good and he looks cool
You can always keep it simple. The antagonist needs to kill a bunch of people in order to stop a greater threat on the horizon with 100% certainty, but the protagonist wants to save everyone with a smaller degree of certainty. The protagonist is willing to risk everyone's lives because they're confident they can succeed. It's a classic disagreement of pessimism vs optimism. They both want a good outcome, but the antagonist is willing to make cruel choices in order to ensure that good outcome.
>>730828756>Also never ask this place for any meaningful advice on writing. Hardly anyone here is capable of articulating an opinion more complex than "[current popular thing] is slop/reddit/insert buzzword of the month".no, once every 99 garbage posts you get one 99999iq post
Just make the protagonist wrong.
>>730828370just make him relatable, but acting unjust or irrational. like someone who was wronged, but taking things too far on his personal vendetta. or make them idealistic. someone who has a noble goal in mind, but creates great suffering from pursuing his goal
>>730830142>relatable, but irrationalOkay, so female protagonist. That's a start.
>>730830241The problem is nobody would buy the game with an ugly female antagonist, but if you make her hot then evil woman enjoyers will just be like "mommy step on me plz" and ignore the very important message about morality and the human condition.
>>730828370If you're writing the villain to have a point just for the sake of it you're gonna end up making it feel forced or unfair. Settle on different ideals for each side and have them clash in a way that makes sense. Utilitarianism vs. kantian morals is one of the most common conflicts of this nature to grasp. Another one is character who isn't plain greedy but values strength at the cost of the weak suffering vs. character who fights for the weak or at the very least finds that mindset repulsive (see everyone's favorite villain senator Armstrong).
>>730828817I never said they can't be female, it's just that killing the wife is overdone you gigantic niggerfaggot. To me a good game would have the love interest serve a real purpose, not just as a cheap prop that gets stabbed so that the protag can have a game lasting mental breakdown. The wife should either be a party member or someone that you do physically come back to between missions.You opening your mouth is what made the discussion turn gay. Next time keep your gayness to yourself.
>>730828370Just make it an unsolved moral dilemma so you don't actually need one to be "right"
>>730830142>or make them idealistic. someone who has a noble goal in mind, but creates great suffering from pursuing his goalThis but the best antagonists are the ones who are both idealistic and megalomaniac.
>>730828740what if those means were applied to you, huh? what then, faggot?
Just make your big bad principled. If he kills a hero have him bury them with honors or if a self destruct thing triggers have him help even the party escape as opposed to continuing the fight for no reason.All you got to do is make them likeable but on the wrong side either due to ideals, oath, or allegiance
Why not just have the character as actually wrong and forced to live with the terrible reality at the end as he grows disillusioned with the cause he defeated the villain for.
im in this situation, trying to make a rough outline of the plot in the final level of my second game, in case the first one does financially well enough for me to jump into this instead of a lesser projecttrying to summarize it without going too much into the details so its not too long>settingmecha pilots, megacorporations, mercenaries>situationthe megacorps were fighting for an extremely busted infinite power source. theres this particular artifact/giant stone from this fucked up planet, its extremely dangerous and volatile, but whoever successfuly gets their hands on this particular artifact from this fucked up planet would be practically invincible after some r&d.you, allied mercenaries, and other opposing mercenaries that used to be antagonists, have grouped together: they realised any megacorporation getting their hands on the artifact would render such mercenaries and combatants worthless, so they would be all cast aside. Not to mention the whole world being inevitably unified into whatever global omegakike corp gets a hold of it.they came up with a secret, coordinated plan to destroy/get rid of the artifact, without any of the megacorps. ill call this alliance "the group" for simplicity's sake1/2
>>730828370The protagonist doesn't have to be some kind of perfect good boy a la giant roboMaking the protagonist just some petty faggot out for revenge after being personally wronged by the antagonist while the antagonist was going about whatever they were genuinely right about makes for a much better story than most examples of epic final philosophical slowdownsNobody is perfect, an antagonist who is trying to change the world for the better could crack more than a few eggs along the way
>>730829560Fable 3 called, they want all their ideas back
Antagonist has a terminally ill friend.Antagonist wants to sacrifice 100s of people and create the energy source to save said friend. Boom. Perfectly "justified" antagonist.
>>730828370Just make the villain unapologetical evil but make him cool. Le villain is actually le right is a reddit trope derivated from bluepilled faggots obsession with subversion.
>>730828370https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bjOC6V0r1XMIt's probably pretty hard.
>>730831145I prefer the might is right model of the OG ratchet and clank, personally
>>730830984>what happensit almost succeeds, but one of the mercenaries had another, autistically convoluted plan and backstabs everyone near the endamidst all the chaos of the megacorps fighting in the vicinity, and the plan the group had in motion, he saw an opportunity to deliver an immense blow to all sorts of megacorps to the point they are all permafucked, which he believed was restoring a great deal of freedom for humanity. he backstabs (kills) several of the group's members that he knew would oppose him, and tried to convince the others to side with him, with no success. So he forces them to cooperate: He launches the super unstable powerful artifact towards the most populated planet, reaching it in a few hours. The resulting explosion would be enough to straight up 100% destroy the planet, and he would only give people the means to stop that thing if they cooperated with his plan of fucking over every megacorp, destroying everything he wanted destroyed, getting him access to everything he needs, etc>tldr conclusionThey manage to fulfill his goal and the megacorps, their armies, etc are raped beyond salvation. But because they hesitated to do his things or tried to oppose him, they ended up too late to stop the power source, so they had a last resort: Instead of letting it impact the planet, they shot it down with an orbital weapon, and it was close enough to wipe out half the planet. Majority the mercenary allies and friends of the player character have died in the processDeep down, the player character feels like the antagonist was correct, but the MC was on such an immense level of seethe over all his friends that died, and also the fact half of the planet's population was completely killed, that he just had to get revenge against the antagonist. Even though the antagonist had already "won" and his death wouldnt accomplish anything
>>730828649Ends do justify the means actually
>>730831404Antagonist detected
>>730828370Just make him kill a dog or something
>>730831317I'm invested. There's a few holes in your summary, but maybe they are already lined up in your full version.So this whole thing is like, the beginning of the game? Or maybe even the middle? And the last portion of it is doing whatever you can to kill this faggot?
>>730828649Reverse it. Make it so that the villain wants to preserve status quo because he can't find a clean way to do it, while the protag just swings his flaming sword around for the entirety of the game and kills a million people but it's okay because status quo sucks and the ends will justify his means. Then make a sequel where the protag doesn't actually challenge the status quo and just takes place of the villain.
>>730831404why dont you volunteer to be subjected to them, then?
>>730831718Isn't that's just the average Soulslike plot?
>>730831658This is describing the last act of the game. Like how OP says, coming up with the the antagonist's actions for the final "level"It would be far too large for a single "level", but its a bit of a bait and switch. The act says its only one mission, one final task to make the artifact disappear and everyone involved parts their own ways. But the betrayal makes it so that this mission drags on for extremely long, being pretty much the full length of an entire act of the game.Do elaborate on these holes you mentioned, if you can
>>730828370>needs to be justifiedNo he doesn't. If you really have an antagoist who's logic is hard to beat, then don't beat it. You can make the protagonist be the enemy.Take shadow of the colossus. Though the course of that game you found out your actions were going to doom the whole world. But not at the very end, like well before the final boss. But the MC was justified in trying to save his gf because she was wrongfully sacrificed. Technically both sides were wrong in this argument. They shouldn't have killed her, but at the same time you shouldn't have hurt innocents because of your pain. And that's where the game ends. It has a perfectly good ending. Not every ending has to be complete satisfying, it can just make you think a little instead.
Bad Strawman Way: Have the antagonist be acting according to those morals, but those morals are stupid, evil, or alien, because they are stupid, evil, or alien. See Albert Wesker, Edward Sallow, or Sephiroth.Easy copout way: Have the antagonist be doing something morally or ethically bad specifically to provoke the desired response as their actual goal. See Captain Torres of Ace Combat 7 or The Boss.Harder but more compelling: have the protagonist and antagonist have similar but slightly different moral ideals that become mutually exclusive due to factors outside of their control. See Shovel Knight vs Black Knight.
>>730832031The hole that stuck out to me first was the orbital weapon. If they had this and knew about it, wouldn't they be prepping its use immediately?The other thing I was worried about on my second read was the method the antagonist had to stop the 'bomb' in the first place. This thing seems ridiculously powerful, so I don't know what you have in mind to stop it that would make sense. Maybe it would make more sense seeing it in action, who knows.
>>730831658>>730832031Wait shit, correctionThe megacorps fighting for the power source is the overall plot, in the middle. Everything that happens after the group of mercenaries join together is the final act
>>730831719Collateral damage is part of the "ends".
>>730831317I will say its a bit of a question mark to me how a handful of mercs are capable of permanently fucking not just one but all the megacorps in the course of a couple hours. That being said, if your goal is to make the antagonist more of an understandable figure, I'd have him really sell the idea of how much better humanity will be post-megacorps and highlighting their atrocities.>"You fight to save a billion souls that will be lost in a painless instant, while ten billion more slowly suffocate in the phosgene clouds of Atlas Industries, on this planet and a hundred more"
>>730828370just give the villain a really sad backstory that magically justifies his actions like every other writer doesalso there are an infinite amount of situations where 2 sides exist that are neither right nor wrong. you sound like a retard that hasn't consumed a single piece of pre-trump media.
>>730828370>this is the one part of writing that fucks meThe ideal "tragic" antagonist is one whose views are dominated by the yearning to return to an era long past. The belief that the world as it is should not be, and the world that was, should. To put it simply, the best antagonist is one who can't stop thinking of Rome and wants to recreate Rome, even if it gets sloppy returning to it.
>>730831801Oh THATS why souls is good
>>730828370In an uncivilized society it's all about resources and survival. The protagonist and villain can both be after something for that reason and still be justified.
>>730832490>the best antagonist is one who can't stop thinking of Rome and wants to recreate RomeThis is also the best protagonist btw
>>730832235>If they had this and knew about it, wouldn't they be prepping its use immediately?It was a bit of a last resort idea that they didnt think of before:Getting access to that weapon would be a completely deranged idea, practically impossible without all the chaos that was caused during all this process. By the end of it, the means to access that orbital weapon were nowhere as defended as before.At that point, both them and the antagonist know 100% well that theres literally no way to stop that thing, as its far too late. The antagonist decides to just get the fuck out and escape that mess, while the last few remaining survivors of the group come up with the last-minute plan to explode it midair>the method the antagonist had to stop the 'bomb' in the first place.me and my friends are arguing about this literally every day kekWe are leaning towards something dumb/cheap, like some sort of code/password that can be used to shut off/control the vehicle that is constantly moving towards the planet, provided they manage to get close enough in time. As destroying that vehicle would very easily cause the whole thing to explode, killing anyone nearby. One hole in that though, is that they could just risk their own lives by exploding it right away, instead of risking their lives following the antagonist's plan. So maybe there could be some excuse like "Currently only the antagonist knows the trajectory/location of this thing", which is hard to come up with, but not undoable, given he was the one initially piloting the ship that was transporting the power source
>>730828370And why did you make a thread about this on /v/ the e-celeb board? Lol.
>>730832984>given he was the one initially piloting the ship that was transporting the power source*and he had some special plating and shields that camouflaged its insides, so nobody would be able to detect the power source inside>>730832357normally it would be undoable, but amidst all the megacorporations going all out and fighting, most of their armies currently being very concentrated desperately trying to re-locate the power source, and the antagonist being a massive autist for communication systems and their weakpoints, there was sort of a perfect storm that allowed them to do it. By the end of it, he also got the normal people living in all sorts of planets absolutely enraged with what the megacorps and governments were hiding from them, and how they allowed such a catastrophe (half a planet deleted) to happen>>>"You fight to save a billion souls that will be lost in a painless instant(...)What im thinking is that the antagonist didnt even want all the people in the planet to die, he was fully hoping to fulfill most of his goals and be able to stop that artifact before its too late, which would be doable as long as the player character and the rest of the group cooperated. In a way, the fact half the planet was lost to the immense explosion was your fault, not his
>>730828370Just make it a matter of political difference where nobody is properly correct but also everyone is flawed.
Most of the time, conflict arises when it comes to the proposed solution to the problem, which is where a lot of villains go full retard even if they correctly identify the problem.
>>730828370just reference mgs2 if you're having trouble figuring out how to resolve this
>>730833326To be honest I'm wondering what the argument is for the protagonists and allied mercs that get betrayed not to be on board from the start. Do they have a motivation to want to maintain the megacorp forever war beyond job security? Did the villain just decide to piss everyone off before he made his pitch for galactic freedom?
>>730828370pick a moral question that doesn't have a straightforward answer
>>730828370A villain ultimately only needs to be justified to him or herself. If you want them to "feel" right then you have to adjust what you show of the villain's character, their thoughts and development to make them seem less crazy. There's plenty of mad dictators IRL to be inspired by. If they absolutely have to be "right" then it could be as simple as a moral dilemma or hopefulness on the part of your main charcter (ace combat zero is a good example where the villain is philosophically opposed to war but perpetuates it in the aim of destroying it, ultimately being shot down by his own hubris and extremism in the end)
>>730828370Both the antag and protag want the same thing, but either there's not enough for both or only one can claim it. For example they are both fighting over a single wish-granting macguffin and while both their motivations are noble their goals aren't aligned.
>>730828370>but the protagonist also needs to be justified in opposing himPersonal gain.
>>730828370You're looking at the problem from only one perspective.Inherently, having the fight be directly focused on the ethos of the protagonist and antagonist will boil down to subjective, personal bias on whether or not you, the reader/watcher/player, feel that the proposed scenario in your post is portrayed accurately by both parties.Instead, consider that the protagonist and antagonist are not enemies for moral reasons, but from coincidence of the protagonists' journey pitting them as opposing sides, i.e. person vs. nature or person vs. fate.The protagonist could have goals or a struggle to overcome that does not directly put the antagonist as an enemy; they become one because the goals of the protagonist actively interfere with or cause conflict within the antagonists' own goals and life.
>>730828370The protagonist is a would-be casualty
>>730828370>"Le heckin villain was actually right!"I wish we could go back to villains being actually evil. It's more fun to beat the shit out of some guy that's just irredeemably bad.
>>730828370antagonist wants to kill you because she loves youyou want to kill the antagonist because you hate her
Just make the protag a psychopath
>>730828370Antagonist sees a bigger picture which makes him right in that his actions are necessary to prevent an even greater tragedy in the future. Protagonist tries to stop him because he does not believe him or because he thinks we must try to find an alternative to the necessary evil or die trying.
>>730834095For me its the fact he's the best friend of the protagonist.
>>730836269Yes and it's used well to paint his thought process and gripes with what they're doing
>>730829529Well that can be compelling if the offer from the villain makes sense and the protagonist has to actually struggle with taking it. I hate when movies do it and the villain randomly tries to tempt the hero with absolutely 0 backing or reason
>>730836580>>730829529But I do like when a villain is offered redemption by the hero, and the villain too proud, still ends up doing a self sacrifice and making up for being a fuck up.
>>730828370
The antagonist is a techno-capitalist devoted to bringing about the intelligence singularity by legal and ethical means, but with an utter disregard for the ultimate fate of humanity.The protagonist wants to end technological accelerationism and return humanity to a sustainable population level and a civilization-wide return to hunter-gather society, and has no legal or ethical qualms about using any means to accomplish their goal for fear of artificial intelligence leading to humanity's extinction or worse, enslavement.
>>730828370>MC has autism and thus doesn't careThere you go OP.
if you haven't figured it out before setting out then you're doomed to fail
>>730837639I asked Gemini to add a spin on this by throwing aliens into mix:The conflict settles into a meticulously bleak triad: a techno-capitalist Archon leveraging legal frameworks to facilitate a sterile post-human singularity, a Luddite zealot willing to prune the population with visceral brutality to reclaim a Neolithic purity, and a third-party alien collective acting as "Grief Archaeologists" or cosmic content creators. These External Observers sidestep the immanence-versus-transcendence binary entirely, viewing the species’ self-destruction not as a tragedy to be averted, but as a rare aesthetic specimen—a "snapshot" of civilizational finish-line pathos—where they act as Referees of Ruin, subtly tilting the scales of our mutual annihilation to ensure the most "poetic" data quality for a bored, post-scarcity audience.
>>730828370>I want to live>Me toobut one of them has to die
>>730837858>I asked Gemini to add a spin on this by throwing aliens into mix:kill yourself
>>730828370What even is this thread? This is an old writing trope and is easily solved. The antagonist uses methods that aren't reasonable and must be stopped. It doesn't matter what his goals are, you can even have some dialogue where the protag wholeheartedly agrees with the point, just don't have him agree with the methods.
>>730837916>Me tooVillain was always holding back because he wanted you to live too, as a carrier and witness to his legacy.
>>730828370There is quite a lot you can go with anon.>both are united against a greater evil, but when that greater evil is gone, they still have conflicting agendas>they are both leaders of a tribe or people and have to stand for each of their own first, but are both honourable>they have the same agenda but one is a radical extremist driven by personal tragedyTell us what the plot is so we can work with it.
>>730828370>The antagonist's actions have hurt and killed innocent bystanders >the protagonist is avenging the innocents>Both are too far to have a rational discussion and let thing end peacefully
>>730828370>Bro nobody actually agrees with you>Everyone that isn't dumb enough to be your pawn is the kind of man that's trying to play you>They'll abuse every inch you give them to corrode your ""perfect"" solution into something that you didn't want that benefits the same kind people you wanted to take away from>All of this shit you're pulling will change and discomfort a lot of people but fix nothing>Oh and here's some shit I found from your underling, they're already making moves>"S-SHUT UP RETARD MY MEN ARE LOYAL IF THEY AREN'T I'LL DEAL WITH THEM LATER DIE"there's your ending
since im too lazy to code ive had an idea for a game. you're briefed on the mission and paratroop in with your squad to some fucked area stricken with some evil shit, plans to retrieve some data or artifact or kill a target. whatever that part isn't important. The cool part is you have a squad of 5 but once everyone makes it to the ground you regroup eventually and there's 6 of you. no one in the squad acknowledges this even though the cutscene & briefing at the start only had 5 jumpers. while u parachute in you catch a bad wind and get stuck in a tree and knocked unconscious for a time, and the impostor squadmate finds you and helps you down (to create rapport with the player & hide the twist even more) and then you both go and find the others & get on with the mission, but the fake is looking for opportunities to kill your squadmates or subvert the goal for x reason.interesting? how should the villain be handled? weird anomaly of the mission site? alien? it was all a le hallucination and you're the villain really?
just make them agree on the subject but not the means of executionand don't make it "protag wants to accomplish goal via friendship and talking and antag wants to nuke people or something", no, make it something like "protag wants to accomplish goal via surgical strikes whereas antag wants sabotage and subterfuge" or something like that. That way both sides can be sicced against the player, adding further nuance as the antagonist can point out the protag is brash in his approach and wasting lives.
Games where the protagonist is just too fucking retarded to understand the antagonist's goals and ends up dooming everyone by defeating him?
>>730828649What's an example of this?
>>730832274It's literally not
>>730828370idk good guy is actually a retard that listens to authority whos actually a bad guy but with propaganda they cant paint themselves in a good light. bad guy is actually good and wants to break the status quo to elevate the common man. or make the villian a woman that gets gets married to the hero, world is saved the end.
>>730838291I think the problem with this is that you'd end up with a good deal of players who would be intensely annoyed that they cant bring up the fact that there's a phantom extra and thus any intrigue is just going to result in them yelling at the screen>BOY I WONDER IF ITS THE MYSTERIOUS RANDO EVERYONE DOESNT QUESTIONMeanwhile, the less observant people are probably going to miss the addition of the new guy altogether, assume they just missed something or even that it was a developer oversight. Even though thats better, it still has the potential to end up with a flat reveal. A basic fix for this could be your team being a second wave after the first team went silent, with the doppelganger presenting as a survivor from the first team acting as a guide or have the player be the imposter with false memories (i have forgotten how to do spoilers)[/spoilers]
>>730838749Yes it is.
>>730839094I thought about the second wave thing but I feel like that would be cliche. I want the impostor to only show up when they enter. Maybe during the mission you or a squadmate has to double check a document you had/you found pertaining to the mission and you/they read the members of the squad involved and realize there's only 5 on the paper. this would be early on so the player doesn't feel like they're being treated like a retard.
>>730839094ctrl+s
>>730839646Better yet, you don't have to include the end spoiler tag if your post ends with a spoiler
>>730833976im back>that get betrayed not to be on board from the start, Do they have a motivation to want to maintain the megacorp forever war beyond job securitythe oldest guy was extremely loyal to his megacorp and believed in it above the others, but he thought the power source was a terrible idea, too dangerous and even capable of ruining what he said his megacorp stood for, didnt think anyone should have that much power and it would inevitably go wrongone of them was the most untrusting and hesitant but ended up getting pressured into playing alongand another was just extremely suspicious of him since the start (though he never expected him to go this for). This guy started trusting the antagonist after all they have been through, but the antagonist knew this guy would be the first one to try and kill him if anything stepped out of line, so he was killed first and practically instantly when he had his guard downand the main character, and probably all the others, just believed his plan and idea was completely deranged. the only way they could be convinced to do it was with the threat of the whole planet exploding
>>730840325>(though he never expected him to go this for*go this farLike he was genuinely just expecting the antagonist to backstab them for his own corp, or for credits, or whatever. Specially considering he spent the whole game bitching and moaning to his handlers about how he needed better parts, deserved a larger budget, etc
>>730829560This guy knows it
>>730828370muh peace vs justice is a classic anglevillain's faction is morally justified in resisting the protag's faction over unforgivable past injustices done but of course the villain's uprising and conflict inevitably leads to atrocities being performed by both sides.protag's handlers want him to kill the main antagonist so they can bury the past. antagonist knows that he's losing but his pride and obligation to his people won't let him go down without a struggle. At very least he wants the protag to remember him.
>>730833326>In a way, the fact half the planet was lost to the immense explosion was your fault, not hisNo pretty sure this would still be on the autist that tried to blow up the planet to get their way after repeatedly being rejected through conventional means.Even factoring out their personal stakes, killing or disposing of someone who is willing to destroy an entire planet as a bartering point, putting the actual risk in place and failing to stop it when the other party did comply, is just good practice.They willingly escalated the risk to a level that they could not manage and effectively caused a near extinction level event through their own hubris. Unless your plan is to also wipe out the other half the only reason to let them live would be if thete is still some form of actual, immediate threat that only they can stop.
>>730828370>>730831317>>730830984Better question is, why does the protagonist have to be right?The villain could be right all along without you as the player knowing.
>>730828370Just ask ChatGPT for advice...You don't have to do exactly as it says or write the dialogue down as given, but at least it can help you put things together you might have not been able to put together before.
>>730841903The problem (amongst many) with using AI for pitching ideas is that nearly every model I've tried it with inevitably gets caught in very repetitive ideas, even when trying to prompt it to avoid them. Even my personal habit of ERPing with grok tends to fall into the same patterns
>>730829504That was the best thing about fable 3. Although it was accidental on my part they didnt warn me how many days they would speed up and I was short gold because i didnt know I needed to wait a little bit.
Both the antagonist and the protagonist are right because they're both doing what they need to do to benefit themselves and those they love.
>>730837962welcome to the future of authorship
>>730841484its still predominantly on him, but his fucked up actions wouldnt have had such catastrophic consequences if the other guys did a better job at complying and/or not screwing up what they were forced to do> is just good practice.yeah thats kind of the point, thats why i think its feeling completely justified for the MC & allies to not side with him >>730842392well, nobody just asks AI to come up with the plot for themnot that ive used it for writing, but i see the potential, youre basically getting something random in response (provided your prompt leads to good randomness) that may or may not provide you inspiration
>>730842725Thank you, based milkman
>>730828421>a racistI've never seen a well-written racist in media ever. It's like animals, you know you're better than them but you don't go out of your way to abuse them.
>>730828370The hero sacrifices the love interest to save the world.The villain sacrifices the world to save the love interest.The hero and the villain knowingly live in the same world, but unknowingly have the same love interest.Imagine Helen of Troy, but rather than choose Helen and continuing the Trojan War, Paris chose Troy and turned his empire against Aphrodite for her lies, even teaming up with Menelaus and Sparta to do it.
>>730831719There are people getting fucked over no matter what state the world exists inYour argument could be turned against your position, if the ends don't justify the means are you okay with being the most mentally ill and most retarded homeless person that currently exists in our world? Judging something by its downsides alone is fucking retarded and dishonest
>>730844085>wouldnt have had such catastrophic consequences if the other guys did a better job at complying and/or not screwing up what they were forced to doGood deflection/self absolution from the antagonist's point of view, but not really reasonable as a defense. From the moment they lob the planetkiller, they either did or didn't intend for the planet to die.If they did, then it's obviously their responsibilty for throwing a planet killing tantrum.If they didn't, then it's still their responsibility because they made a mistake of judgement or planning that resulted in half the planet dying. They can deflect or victim blame but the truth remains the same. Either they accepted that as a risk of their actions, or were negligent enough to to not take sufficent precautions when dealing with a extinction level event (in the event that they were only trying to make it look like a risk and intended on completely stopping it regardless of whether or not the other parties complied).
>>730828370The protagonist actually doesn't need to be justified in opposing him, he just has to have a relatable enough reason that the player can understand why he would fight despite being in the wrong.For example, lets say the protagonist's home and family were all killed/destroyed by the antagonists actions, and he's seeking to stop the antagonist so no one else gets to suffer the same way he did.However, you can follow this up by revealing that the antagonist didn't intentionally cause this deciding event, and even reveal that if it wasn't for some incredibly rare happenstance and the failure of his underlings, this event would've never happened, and that the antagonist has actually been improving the world through his actions. Even with proper time and effort put into safety and ethics, there's always a risk for someone to be killed, especially at a massive scale. The antagonist's actions are reasonably worth the risk in this case, and he's not truly to blame for the event that shaped the protagonist into opposing him, but most players would still be able to understand why he's untrusting and opposed to the antagonist.
>>730828370>Writing an antagonistWhy constrain yourself?
>>730838661Helios and Bob Page have virtually the exact same goals, the only difference is Helios is the "Aww you're so sweet" AI god and Page is a creepy white man
