>*permanently ruins action game design*
>>730857028Fixes*It even fixed JRPG combat
>>730857028>Simon Says: Deflect*ding*>Simon Says: Attack*pow*>Simon Says: Deflect*ding*
>>730857028>Your attack is very weak and basically only serves to continue the chain of deflectsI don't think there's anything I loathe more than that. I'm so glad Elden Ring wasn't infected and the main way of killing things is actually smashing their face with a sword
Sekiro > DaS3 > DaS2 > BB > ER > DaS1 > DeS
>>730857369HOAAAAAAAA
>>730857028Ah, dang. I thought I invented the mechanic. No wonder sekiro is so popular. As I came up with the mechanic myself independently from sekiro, I must say every other rpg could use this. Depends on its actual implementation ofc.
>>730857028why? it was a cool mechanic that rewarded hyper aggressive gameplay in an otherwise simple combat system
>>730857028Action games were already ruined by the introduction of the second analog stick for camera control.Since then no modern game ever fully develops a functional camera even when Z-targeting is implemented, since the player is assumed to be able to move the camera for a better angle at any time.This imposes limitations on the game and mandates that the player can only reliably use the shoulder buttons for input, while also forcing the game to use much more expensive and labor intensive graphical effects, given that they must be functional at any angle or distance.
>>730857369the people yearn for turn BASED
>>730857298No.>>730858947>stagger bar>cool mechanicHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
>>730858804>DaS3 above anythingyour taste is bad and you should feel bad
>>730857028It's not bad as a concept but it is poorly executed almost anywhere it is foundThere is no point having a separate posture bar if you interact with it in exactly the same way as you would interact with a health bar. Sekiro in particular could remove the health bar from enemies leaving only the posture bar and this would have zero impact on 99% of gameplay.The Team Ninja games are the best examples of a posture + health bar in use because they give you means of interacting with one or the other specifically. You can choose in Nioh to go for attacks which target enemy Ki directly while dealing very low damage, aiming to break posture first, OR you can go directly for damage and try to kill things without aiming for a break. Different weapons, attacks and gearing interact with the 2 bars differently so they provide playstyle choices in combat. Sekiro does almost nothing to accommodate this as almost every enemy is going to die from posture break before their health runs out and you have little if any practical means of targeting HP directly.
>>730859901lmao what the fuck is this?
>>730859975
>>730859501>>730858910Is posture basically stagger?
>>730860194Nah, really? It's Final Fantasy? What the fuck were they thinking?
>>730859901In your example, they have the 2 different bars but is there any benefit to mixing up what bar you are depleting?If depleting one bar has no impact on the second bar I can't see why you wouldn't just focus on only depleting a single bar which also kind of defeats the purpose as you said for sekiro.What I think you should see the health bar in sekiro as more of a hit limit for the boss before you can end the phase without being completely perfect at chaining the required number of deflects, it also makes breaking posture quicker if mess up during your chain.I feel the primary method of getting the deathblow IS posture breaking with the health bar being more of a fallback so you can eventually reach the posture break easier.
>>730859901doesn't lower HP in Sekiro also slow the posture recovery rate? basically dealing HP damage is only supposed to make depleting the posture bar easier as the fight drags on
>>730860358In SoP, the Agility stat does not increase HP damage, instead it increases the amount of Break damage dealt by Critical hits only. Critical hits are hits in the back, so aside from a handful of forced-crit abilities or bonuses, you can only take advantage of Agility by hitting things in the back. This becomes a separate playstyle which focuses on back damage and posture damage, and requires you to stay on the enemy aggressively because the posture bar regenerates quickly the moment you stop hitting. The build in the webm is specifically designed to break postureMeanwhile Strength directly increases damage and has no back hit requirements, Strength builds smack things in the face and primarily damage HP, this allows you to play more defensively because HP doesn't regenerate, and is more suited for slower hyperarmoured attacks because you don't need to land your hits before an enemy turns aroundThe posture bar mechanic allows for 2 entirely different playstyles which actually make different choices in combat instead of just being Red damage and Blue damage
>>730860431>doesn't lower HP in Sekiro also slow the posture recovery rate?It does.
>>730860431Yes but this isn't relevant unless you're shit at the game and keep having to run away, it's not a playstyle choice it's just a mechanism for forcing aggression. Sekiro lets you swing R1s between parries with no real commitment and these deal enough damage to keep posture damage rolling so you're not making choices to interact with the different bars you just have a Correct way of playing. The effective ways of damaging HP are also the effective ways of damaging posture
>>730857028No other action game has this, not even other fromsoft games that cribbed itIt is not a "do damage to do more damage" status effect you build off of every attack, it's a health bar that you interact with by learning the enemy's moveset
>>730857028Not my problem
>>730860954>>730860431If they had made the recovery more dramatic so that you are practically forced to deal HP damage first, and they had given abilities a more dramatic split between HP and posture damage so that some Arts for example dealt only HP damage with no posture or visaversa, then you would have some agency over how you wanted to approach the fight, how much HP damage you wanted to deal before you started to focus on posture damage and so on. However with the current design abilities like Ichimonji or the emblem spender arts, and prosthetics like Living Flame deal lots of damage and posture damage so you aren't making a choiceIt would be cool for example if this burn mechanic dealt lots of HP damage and no posture damage, and if arts like Exorcism dealt lots of posture damage and no HP damage
>>730861008Armored core 6 has it>it's a health bar that you interact with by learning the enemy's movesetNo, it's a gay way to balance the player being able to run away at all times, which in turn forces you to stay on enemies nonstop and makes duo fights trash
>>730860319>>What the fuck were they thinking?>Let's make the first good Final Fantasy in over a decade
>>730862102>Let's make the first good Final Fantasy in over a decade
>>730861758Armored Core stagger builds by doing damage, not parries, so it doesn't interact with enemy moveset and it doesn't let you instakill bosses, only ACs and only if your setup allows it. It's precisely "do damage to do more damage" status effect and nothing moreSoP is honestly the closest to copying Sekiro I can think of because depleting the stagger bar lets you finish the enemy or a boss (or one phase of the boss) just like Sekiro, but even there you don't build stagger by simply parrying unless you specifically build for it so it's not an exact copy
>>730861758You explained the exact thing I said, retard
>>730862394>Armored Core stagger builds by doing damage, not parriesYou stagger enemies by doing damage in SekiroIn fact doing damage is a necessary step of staggering enemies at a normal rate.It's even worse in Armored Core because the stagger minigame dictates entirely your actions more than actively reacting to the enemy
>>730863714>juggleslop is trashgotcha
>>730863597>You stagger enemies by doing damage in Sekiroand parrying, AC only copied one half of this>AC6 stagger is shitAgree, no argument thereBut anon's point was that no game copies all mechanics from Sekiro, just bits and pieces
>>730858804Pretty good list desu but I'd swap BB and DS2
>>730857028I really don't see how parrying is meaningfully different from i-fram dodges though, which was the previous standard. It's still just press one button at the right time to take zero damage. AT least parrying has more satisfying feedback.
>>730864356Because iframe dodging doesn't universally work
>>730864356Parrying damages enemy stamina or even HP, so you're still fighting even while being defensive. Rolling just wastes your stamina.
>>730863714Hi-Fi Rush is still more Simon Says than Juggling. You only had like three different air combos in that game, and you just extended it by cancelling with your grapple move and starting again. It's very monotonous playing like that and you only did it to boost your score. It's extremely safe in the air, but it's not that dangerous on the ground either.
>>730865482Every parry game has unparryable attacks>>730866757I like this, if it's well balanced. Rise of the Ronin is the best parry game imo
>>730858867kek
>>730858804DS2 > All.
>>730859901This is the dumbest fucking thing I've ever seen.
>>730859901>either stagger the boss to death or get one shot whenever he breathes in your direction I really wanted to love this game, but I just can't
>>730867756>Every parry game has unparryable attacksBop it is not engaging game design
>>730864356Ye that's because you're a midwitSekiro parries ARE offense, the game rewards you for standing in the way of enemy attacks and colliding with them as often as possible. L1 does not move you and you have no reason TO move unless it's to move back towards the enemy to make sure their attacks keep hitting you. The idealised form of parryslop gameplay involves you simply standing still at point blank range and pressing L1 at the correct time over and overThe i-frame component of dodging is a developer bandaid, it is not the purpose of the mechanic, and while parry comes with a reward, dodge comes with a cost. If you dodge you lose stamina, lose time due to dodge recovery and gain nothing. It's the opposite of Sekiro's parry design, instead of wanting to parry as much as possible you want to dodge as little as possible, as if you can avoid damage without dodging you save stamina and time. Dodging is movement, so it interacts with all of the other game mechanics like spacing and weapon range. It interacts with animation times and poise/stagger because you need to be able to safely hit things instead of just 'attacking' via parrying. The need to hit things means you have to think about how to use all of your other tools because your openings to deal damage depend on what you dodged, how you dodged it, whether you needed to dodge, how much stamina you've been able to save and so on.Any game which turns dodge into just an iframe timing check with a reward like Wukong is Crypto-Parryslop
>>730868289Bosses dealing absurd damage is a valid criticism, but you absolutely can dodge/block/parry/soul shield everything, or even facetank a bit with certain builds. Stunlocking is just both safer and faster.
niggas in this thread wants for honor combat in every game
>>730868697>developer bandaidyou have never developed anything other than acne, that's for certain.gamer cattle talking implementation detail is very cringe and won't make you any less of a virgin, just fyi
>>730868289You can build to be invincible instead if you don't want to get good
>>730858804BB > DaS ~ Sekiro > DeS > DaS3 > power gap > DaS2 > power gap > power gap > DaS2 SotFS
>>730868927You wanna make an argument or you just want to pretend you know what you're talking about without elaborating on shit? If it were practical to design a dodge which was purely movement and to design enemies whose attacks could be practically dodged through pure movement without having to bend over backwards and greatly limit yourself then plenty of people would do so. Since this is impractical we add iframes as a bandaid. If you think you have any great ideas bobbing around in your skull then feel free to share them with the class
Other clones fuck up what sekiro was going for.Wolf is a shinobi, bred to kill. He doesnt kill by slashing and cutting a thousand times but by dealing decisive deathblows, because killing is all he knows. The deflect and deathblows are the innate abilities of the hero we are playing as.Other games just have a parry in them... just because. Lies of P and E33 don't have any real explanation for these mechanics other than just throwing them in.The executor in nightreign doesn't parry like wolf, at all. It is a unique character ability to mitigate damage but thats it.
>>730869549Just because the gay gimmick the game is built around is contextual to the game theme, that doesn't make it good
>>730858804>Demon's Souls lastFuck you, you little bitch, you absolute faggot
Action games that punish the player for acting first are bad. It's as simple as that.
>>730863714kek
>>730857028It was an odd choice.
>>730858804shit>power gap>Sekiro=DaS3=DaS2=BB=ER=DaS1=DeS
>>730870235People who are obsessed with the word "proactive" are generally just too shit to play soulslikes and should stick to Diablo and DMC where they don't have to respond to anything happening on the screen
Sekiro is the only game that has implemented parry-based gameplay well.
>>730858804>Sekiro>das3Lol
>>730870909Sort of but Elden ring is a very proactive game
>>730870909Imagine spending millions of dollars to make a needlessly elaborate version of that website where you can do reaction time click tests. Is that what video games are to you?
>>730871328Is that what you think soulslikes are?
