Do you really think themepark design has any place in MMOs? Leveling is dozens, if not hundreds, of hours of a tutorial. Endgame is linear. People want emergent gameplay, social dynamics, and to live in a world. Science has had motivation (fun) solved since 1985. We've had approximately 1 A+ sandbox launch in 20 years. Isn't it time to give sandbox design a chance?
sandboxes always end up dominated by megaguilds of autistic nolifes
>>730868961That's every multiplayer game ever though.
They're working on it.
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>>730868961This is a design problem, not a sandbox problem. Goons in EVE get their ass handed to them whenever a decently organized guild tries. EVE has some other problems, like permanent blueprints that were given out years ago; but players/groups having too much money is easy to fix. Just have infinite lootboxes that take up to large sums of money that people can buy and trade. Other problems are gear availability, which is a drop percentages problem, too much crafted gear, which is a problem where gear needs to be removed from the economy (no permanent, repaired with gold at an NPC gear), and accessibility / social relatedness, which generally comes from balancing sandbox designs like area control and full gear trading. A sandbox is really specific, but if you know the objective designs, you can make a perfect, everybody plays all day, every day MMO.
I'm open to something better, please make it. Nobody has made an MMORPG as good as vanilla-WOTLK yet, so I'm not gonna hold my breath.TERA, BDO, FF14, all shit. The BDO character creator is so good though. That, like vanilla-WOTLK, hasn't and will probably never be surpassed.
>>730869540man, imagine showing this picture to a wow player in some time around 2005-2007
I'm sick of fantasy, I want a sci-fi MMO where you play as a customizable mecha and fight aliens and robots in space
You can't force the social aspect onto the current players. All they know is rushing instances as fast as possible without speaking to anyone.Classes aren't limited anymore. Any spec can solo to max level in an afternoon (or faster if they use timewalking instances). There's almost no need for other players for non-instanced content.The overworld is just window dressing. Everyone flies over it at 300km/hr, there's no reason to land. Traveling is meaningless. The world space is meaningless. Outdoor pvp is meaningless.I don't know how you'd draw the current MMO player to a sandbox style game. That kind of game is dominated by poopsockers who never leave the PC. It's a cool concept, but its era is long gone. Those kind of build-your-fort Rust-like games are about as close as we've gotten to sandboxes.
>>730868679>Leveling is dozens, if not hundreds, of hours of a tutorialand that's the most fun part of it
>>730870213>>730870334Only, like, .1%-1% of people who have ever tried WoW are subbed right now, despite being 1 of the most popular games ever. It obviously has huge problems. Only, like 30% of trial players make it to level 10, and only 50% of level 10s make it to 25.
>>730869765Imagine forcing a WoW player from 2005 to 2007 into playing through Exiles reach. They would complain so much about how fucking gay it is.
>>730870334It should be.They've been trying to remove as much fun as possible from it though.
>>730872220>Leveling.>Good.WoW max level characters per account is approximately 1. Out of 13 classes. When boosts exist.
>>730872220>tryingThey've been successful as early as Cata. Even with the level squish the new player experience of leveling your first character is still fucking horrendous, and they'll never care because you can just buy boosts.
>>730868679>Do you really think themepark design has any place in MMOs?NoSame with gamer dadsWomenWaggiesUnderage retardsMMOs should be made for nerds and men aged 21-60 by other men aged 21-60. Hard poop content
MMO's have the best co-op gameplay in gaming. But why the fuck do they force you to spend hours upon hours leveling 1 character before you can play with your friends??Forcing people to play through a campaign / levelling is like forcing people to play though half-life 2 before they can play left 4 dead with their friends. Just let people make a character and play with their friends doing "end-game" shit and give cosmetic rewards to people who like playing ultra-trivial brain dead solo MMO content.
>>730873282leveling is supposed to be the adventure, not the endgame. At some point devs forgot about the middle game and the early game, hell i think the early game of any mmo 0-25 is the most important one!
>>730873363I don't see a justification for FORCING everyone to go through a trivial zero challenge campaign. "That's just how it is" isn't an argument.You can keep your adventure, the issue is forcing everyone to suffer through that garbage.
>>730868679why wow is still this ugly?
>>730873363Wow and Rs3 share the issue of very much trying to usher the player past old content and into the "endgame" as quickly as possible instead of actually fixing the journey there, which is why they both get clowned on by classic/osrs respectively which don't have that issue and instead have healthy adventures all the way through
Look, everyone >>730873282This is how the RETARDED playerbase that ruined modern MMOs thinkFucking normies, gtfo of my hobby
>>730873632Not an argument. I accept your concession.
>>730873480you say that and yet wow turtle, wow classic (tbc) and ffxi horizon are extremely popular!. People want new (old) not new (new). Retail is a disaster.
>>730873694I don't see a justification for FORCING everyone to go through a trivial zero challenge campaign. "That's just how it is" isn't an argument.You can keep your adventure, the issue is forcing everyone to suffer through that garbage.
MMOs are a failed concept>genre based on cooperation>but also segregation ( to role play characters must be able to demonstrate differentiations in capability at a task through a time investment aka experience levels)
>>730868679Leveling wasn't a tutorial when WoW first launched, it was the majority of the game.
>>730873876Nobody is forcing you to do anythingIf you don't like levels and RPG progressions, then RPGs aren't for youthere is a fuckton of normieslop shit out there for you to play with your broccoli-haired queer friends
>>730874176>Nobody is forcing you to do anythingHow do you play the end-game co-op content without being forced to level anon?It's no different to being forced to play through HL2 before playing Left4Dead. Keep up anon, I know you're an MMO player and thus completely brain damaged, but this isn't a difficult concept.
>>730874280Do you start a D&D campaign by having level 1 players kill Tiamat? This is how retardedly brown you sound.MMOs are supposed to simulate worlds, not be gaylord lobby simulator #4234You're embarrassing yourself, retard.
>>730874832>Do you start a D&D campaign by having level 1 players kill Tiamat?I never said remove the campaign you brain damaged retard. Keep up.Answer the question anon. How do you play the end-game co-op content without being forced to level anon?It's no different to being forced to play through HL2 before playing Left4Dead.Keep up anon, I know you're an MMO player and thus completely brain damaged, but this isn't a difficult concept.
>>730868961That’s life, in the real world. >>730870213Trvke
>>730868679No. Every Themepark aside WoW and FFXIV died. The answer of "why" is very simple.>Release Themepark MMO>People play it for a month>"Wow that was fun, lets go back to WoW/XIV!">They have tens of thousands of hours of progress in WoW/XIV>There are no new MMO players, younger generations don't really play the genre. If any do, it's a small number.>Empty game dies.But personally, at this point, the MMO landscape has changed. Lots of cheating, and I mean a lot of it. More than just bots and multiboxers, there is some shit going on. Outright breaking the ToS to win Mario party minigames, wintrading in pvp, RMT running rampant. The second you open a sandbox MMO what are these people going to do? Honor doesn't matter, rush the top and secure the bag, sell it to other players. That's the new MMO MO. There would be a Bluerose13x for every market, there would be an Abjured in every PvP scene. Digital RMT cartels. MMOs are fucked, not by the devs, but by drawing in the worst fucking players imaginable.
>>730868679Literally Albion Online.
>>730875340This is really the answer. You have an entire generation conditioned to think that if a game isnt like wow then it's a bad mmo. So every game ends up being an uninspired auto grouping, quest hub filled tab target trinity combat slog. I like wow but it ruined mmos forever.
mmos are a product of their time. you might as well complain about why video rental stores arent popular anymore
>>730874832Hello anon? Are you struggling with the captcha?????
>>730873592>they both get clowned on by classic/osrs respectively which don't have that issue and instead have healthy adventures all the way throughOSRS is the one MMO where I feel like you're not being rushed towards any particular thing, which is probably why it's the best.
>>730868679levelling takes 5 minutes in WoW
>>730876392Every sandbox mmo does this. Admittedly, most arent as good as OSRS
what mmo is even good that’s free? dont like gw2, onigiri, black desert, ragnarok, any mobile shit, maplestory, closers or any other korean shit
Is DC Universe good?
>>730876772No good free mmos. Paywalls keep the browns and third worlders like you out
>>730874941Having shit like "campaigns" is exactly what ruined MMOs.Snowflakes like you demanding to be special without putting in any work, that's literally everything that's wrong with MMOs these days.What you're actually saying is:"Keep the single-player, mind-numbingly easy 'muh story' filler content that makes you feel like the chosen one… but also remove any remaining sense of progression and just hand me the endgame without making me do any work."This is basically how retail WoW and every other normie-infested MMO operates these days.This anon >>730872986 has the right idea
>>730876772oh i also hate pso2, runescape, flyff and mabinogi
>>730876772LOTRO is decent
>>730876907im white and have previously payed for ff11, ff14 and wow
>>730868679I think that ultimately MMO's biggest problem is the kind of person who will sit down and actually play it. They are largely the least socialized, biggest poopsock fiends, second only to moba players and barely a step above animals. And while it is true that game design shapes the playerbase, and that given enough time and the correct set of gameplay motivations they could be molded into something resembling human beings, I think that the patient is simply too far gone to save in a reasonable amount of time. A better use of studio time would be developing better games that aren't mmos, and then coming back in ten or twenty years once the current crop of infected cattle have died off, and building better games on top of the ashes.
>>730876913>Having shit like "campaigns" is exactly what ruined MMOs.There are plenty endlessly griending MMO's available you brain damaged faggot. Go play Albion or whatever.>Snowflakes like you demanding to be special without putting in any work, that's literally everything that's wrong with MMOs these days.There is no work, the cost is nothing more than time. It's not difficult. There is no challenge. You never get better at the game. People who are forced to go through the campaign are still dogshit at max level.>"Keep the single-player, mind-numbingly easy 'muh story' filler content that makes you feel like the chosen one… but also remove any remaining sense of progression and just hand me the endgame without making me do any work."At no point have I said remove progression you clueless illiterate brain damaged retard. There are plenty silos of progression at the end-game for MMOs but all of them are locked behind a hyper boring zero challenge campaign. >This is basically how retail WoW and every other normie-infested MMO operates these days.There is nothing "hardcore" about playing a game with no challenge, where "improvement" is gained from doing nothing but spending time. The solution to every problem in grinding games is spending time, at no point is there a challenge to your motor skills or understanding of your character.You are fucking retarded.
>>730877025No you're not and no you havent
Warcraft honestly needs to make a new RTS and a 64 player "Battlefield" clone.Imagine Orks vs Humans but Dieselpunk and choosing different types of Alliance/Horde grunts with "Hero" style Adventurer classes or Horde/Alliance vehicles to join the battle as.Just a bunch of Horde Grunts forced to fight off a Human Death Knight who gets run over by a Horde tank.If only they didn't make the series extremely gay and unwarlike
>>730877302There has never ever been a game with more than 12v12 that had good combat. You can soj out all you want over "muh heckin' epic battle" but there has never ever been any strategy and you just have screeching retards in chat upset because people aren't doing exactly what they say.
>>730877012will check it out>>730877251i still have my physical expansions
>>730868679Why do WoW players think random slop gear thrown together is 'good cosmetics'. Any time I see a list of ideas for Classic+, everyone hates the idea of transmog for some reason. Is looking like a total clown part of the 'nostalgia' or something? This goes for OSRS as well.
>>730868679Currently running a Single Player Project Vanilla Server with Playerbots. I got an LLM set up to use the RP feature while running a Human Supremacy Paladin only guild.
Y'all should come home to City of Heroes and play on the Thunderspy server. It's leagues better than Homocummies yet no one plays it.
>>730877492>will check it outIt is old and clunky, but it has SOVL>>730877507A good part of the classic playerbase are as retarded as retail players.Transmog is a genuinely good system that only has positive effects on gameplay, as opposite to shit like auto-teleport group finders
>>730868679>Do you really think themepark design has any place in MMOs?>People want emergent gameplay, social dynamics, and to live in a world. Science has had motivation (fun) solved since 1985.This would be true but modern life is deeply unnatural and the people raised in it are just as aberrant. It started with late millennials (WoW's player base) being more than a little off, not quite what one might call exemplars of the human spirit. They aren't capable of autocratically organizing in a vacuum beyond simple content oriented guilds, they aren't curious enough to explore possibilities either in character builds or what adventure they can have of their own volition. Calling them and what came after human is a stretch, they're more like industrial equipment than people who yearn for the mines and the grind. It shows in life as well, there's not much entrepreneurship among them. They all follow the same meta of go to college, get passable grades, get a job that sounds like a lot of money on paper that really isn't, settle for an apartment. Sandbox MMO's are games for civilization builders and that just isn't what we are as a species anymore.
>>730877728i dont mind clunk, used to love star wars galaxies and everquest
>>730868679MMOs are a dead genre. They're never coming back so you can stop your unc theorycrafting about the ideal MMO world.
>>730877879OSRS's insane rise in popularity says otherwise
>>730877958Yeah Nerissa Ravencroft saved the game
>>730868679>Leveling is dozens, if not hundreds, of hours of a tutorial.fucking kill yourself. you people ruined wow, you dumb boosting faggots. leveling is more fun than raiding if you have any modicum of soul.
>>730870580yes because they made it more focused on endgame like the nigger OP wanted
>>730877507Because zoomers like you still never understand what it was like seeing people in high level gear
>>730877438Yeah, That is war. That is what I wantI wanna snipe Gnomes and Night Elves like they are children and women leaving the Gaza strip
>>730868679>Leveling is dozens, if not hundreds, of hours of a tutorial.They should increase that by 100x, considering how retarded the average NPC is and how dogshit they are at these games despite that time spent leveling.
>>730876772Ephinea
>>730877438Mobile Suit Gundam Online, checkmate faggot
OP spams this every day because he is literally paid to do so.
>>730877438>There has never ever been a game with more than 12v12 that had good combat.Planetside 2. At its height PS2 was the stuff of legends and endless memes. We'll never get a successor and frankly no one deserves it really. Rot in the hellscape you created.
>>730879860OP is smart enough to know the only way to have a vaguely civil thread about Worlo Warcar is to call it a broader MMO thread. Otherwise it's just dumping on WoW and Blizzard.
>>730872346That's what I'm saying.It should be good, but it isn't.I've level capped every class in Wildstar and TERA, but I've only ever managed to cap two or three classes in WoW despite having spent way more time on it overall.
>>730877507>Any time I see a list of ideas for Classic+, everyone hates the idea of transmog for some reasonbecause they instantly hate anything thats in the modern version of wow. classic+ fags are all delusional anyways, they expect the same team that spent 48 hours releasing the 3rd release of the tbc prepatch to meet any of their expectations lmao
>>730868679>People wantBoth existed and one was more popular. The only four MMOs that are still relevant today are all themeparks, not because sandboxes didn't exist or ceased developed out of nowhere, but because themeparks were more popular.I hate them, but I would never say people don't want them. They clearly do. They had the opportunity to play whatever they wanted to; they made their choice.
>>730880960OSRS is more sandbox than theme park. But it's not a full sandbox
>>730880813Its because its the only visual reference you have for whether someone will kill you instantaneously or not. Not a much better reason, but it was never a very good game either. PvE faggots mix with PvPers like oil and water, the problem mostly being the former.
>>730879389don't cut yourself on that edge lil bro
>>730881156i mean you can just look at their hp too and instantly tell if they are a fresh lvl 60 or wearing naxx gear
>>730880380you should dump on wow and blizzard, and activision and microsoft for that matter.
>>730872986>Same with gamer dadsHad some single dad of three try telling me that the game I enjoy needs to be tuned down because he can't keep up. Go watch a movie with your kids, fag.
>she's getting filtered by the 5 minute tutorialcome on sis
>>730881378Yes I should be, in fact I complain about Activision literally every time I see a WoW thread.>duhhhhh where did wow go wrong and why wad it when dey went WOKE>post Activision logo>zero replies
>>730868679WoW armor design has to be one of the biggest cancers on fantasy games in all of history. The shirty plastic look, the gigantic ugly pauldrons, the way everything just looks like cheap single layer clothed disguised as metal, I have no idea how anyone can enjoy Azeroth as a setting with how gay it looks. Maybe it wasn't as bad with the actual Warcraft RTS games but WoW leaves a horrid impression for me. If I played it growing up I'd probably have warmed up to it though.
>>730877507trannymog is just an excuse to make shit looking armor and the visual impact of gear is important to actually have an understanding on how geared a person is.
How did the French manage to make the best MMORPG of 2026?
If a new MMO came out that was a blatant WoW ripoff I'd probably try it. The things that put new people off trying MMOs is usually>its been out for years>there is often a decade or more of content to get through; you either have to slog it or land in the new stuff and be very confused>you will probably never catch up>you will probably never have that cool experience of levelling to the top and being one of the cool kids>the resultant endless meta drivel makes you feel punished for doing anything but playing like a bot according to a guideIt's why I think when Blizzard are truly on the ropes they will pull a lever marked "WORLD OF WARCRAFT 2." When WoW truly starts to fall off or when they really panic, I think they'll do that. Do some retarded final expansion that "ends" the current run, new game will have similar/same races but a newish setting that doesn't rely on the previous stuff. Most people really do just want to feel like they're jumping into a cool new bustling world that won't die in a year or two.
>>730881156PvP is dead as fuck anyway lmao. Look at all the private servers, they're all PvE for a reason.
>>730881532nobody is going to waste resources making a good mmo when it requires so many resources and investment only for it to go nowhere because all the addicts are already playing the MMO they've already sunk 10+ years of life life in, when the devs can just put out some low effort gachaslop or live service trash instead and make way more money
I came back to LOTRO after not playing it for a few years and I'm having lots of fun being a dwarf and exploring the big ass Tolkien world. No one young plays mmos anymore so it's just people mostly aged 30+. Very comfy
>>730881696That's why I think it's going to be>World of Warcraft finally winding down...>...get ready for WORLD OF WARCRAFT 2Every single MMO that comes out gets compared to WoW. I think when Blizzard (for whatever reason) enters an actual panic zone (as in existential panic, not some drama or temporary slump) they will take the plunge. I doubt it'd be good, but they'd make a metric shitload of money from it. Ask yourself if the average person who once played WoW and either still does or still plays other MMOs would respond to:>WoW is gone>replaced by WoW 2>similar but updated races/setting>everyone starting from the exact same position (probably some pre order slop)>nobody can buy their way to the top>firsts will be actual firsts>no classic/retail divideIt'd be the absolute last resort, but if they did it they'd make all their money back tenfold.
when is Bliz going to be put on the ropes? by whom? studios have been throwing wow clones out the window for almost 2 decades at this point and WoW is still the dominant game in a struggling genre?also most of your points have nothing to do with retail WoW, the power levels get reset every couple months, catching up hasn't been hard in several expansions, and the meta grind is one of the driving factors to its success, no other game delivers the same raiding or M+ experience. Retarded post
>>730882021>when is Bliz going to be put on the ropes?It is on the ropes. They would've closed if they weren't getting propped up by investors. How the fuck do you think they stay in business while only releasing a new game every ten years?
>>730882021>whenidk>by whomthemselves, probably.That's why I said it's what they'll do when they are truly out of options.>but muh power levels get reset>but catching up isn't that hardIf you have not played for many years or are totally new, that's meaningless. It feels incredibly daunting and the only ones who disagree are people who have played it regularly for many years, or who spend most of their time playing MMOs.
>people seriously think WoW2 is going to happenThat would be financial suicide. The only reason people still play WoW is because they already have 10k hours in it.No one actually cares about Warcraft as a setting. The only reason people would even play a WoW2 is because it would be a Blizzard product ( D4 and Diablo Immortal were incredibly successful )
>>730882223Again, you're making the mistake of thinking>they won't do that, why would they do that when they have WoWEveryone who speculates about WoW 2 knows that it'll come when Blizzard believes WoW is finally drying up profit wise.>people won't playThe fact that people still play+join retail WoW in droves is proof this isn't true. Many will rush back, others will leap in to get ahead.
>>730882132to be fair heartstone in it's prime made them a retarded amount of money and wow still keeps them afloat thanks to bots paying for sub + boost, retards buying gold (wow token), boosts and all the other low IQ individuals buying mounts, transmog and other garbage for irl money.
>>730882132>It is on the ropes.BY WHOM???? Point with your fat fingers at the MMO that's beating out WoW currentlywhy do you believe this? can you show some proof of why you think this? Have you spent 5 minutes looking at the current MMO landscape? Do you realize they cited 9 million concurrent players 2 months ago?
>>730882015everyone i know who played wow and quit it because "it went to shit in [varying points in time]" won't come back to a hypothetical wow2 because it's the same lying retards making the game OR they hate the idea wholesale because it would meant all the shit they collected won't carry over OR the shit they haven't collected yet will be lost forever.
>>730882558mostly because nublizzard is incapable of doing anything, anyone who thinks they can is a massive retard.
>>730868679That is why leveling should be the entire point of the game. Endgame is a weakness of development made to placate a niche of autists. In the ideal MMO, it is entirely a leveling experience in a sandbox social environment that would be reminiscent of something such as VRchat, I mean in the sense that the gameplay should naturally lend itself to players wandering or ending up in large gatherings, not being pigeonholed into quest paths like robots. There should be a great deal of depth and variation in the world, such as a reason to be a particular level at specific places in order to gain access to certain things. Like sometimes a noob should be able to find what the "Dragonslayer" cannot. There would be mechanics which have dramatic and lasting impact on your character. Losing levels and equipment is basic stuff, but it could go a lot deeper. Say getting bitten by a vampire or werewolf cursing you permanently. There may be a cure, but you have to figure it out and go through a lengthy journey to get rid of it - or you could just carry on with the affliction being a new trait of your character.
>>730882558I dunno anon, I think a lot of those people would come rushing back in an instant at the notion of something completely starting over. Especially if there's some sort of funny prestige bonus (such as the tattoo in FFXIV for people who played pre ARR) for other WoW players. Gamers are like cattle.
>>730882539he won't say it of coursewe all know what he wants to saybut he's too chickenshit to actually say it lol
>There should be a great deal of depth and variation in the world, such as a reason to be a particular level at specific places in order to gain access to certain things. Like sometimes a noob should be able to find what the "Dragonslayer" cannot.This is a cool idea, unfortunately: botsAny cool features that aren't gates by time investment will just be botted into worthlessness.This is why the conceit of "anyone of any level can find Excalibur and be That Guy" will never work.
>>730873483wow is an ugly game in general which only good memorable parts are practically lifted from the lord of the rings and conan moviesthe rest is utter and complete shitbut post cata wow is extra shit, cause even the things lifted from those movies fell flatwhat you're left with is an empty husk taken over by leftism agenda and mediocrity. everything has been sanitized, streamlined, simplified, outsourced and ultimately stripped from souland somehow, they've decided to plagiarize themselves by regurgitating old narratives without know why those old narratives were great, destroying legacy and meaning in the process.cautionary tale doesn't even begin to describe wow's downfall
>>730881659>most pvp classic realms are all monofaction
>>730881659would increasing rewards for pvp and removing battlegrounds fix the issue?
>>730883249No. PvP is too hard for most wow players.If we're looking at classic specifically, also no, because classic pvp servers always skew 99% one faction
>>730882539By themselves. They've been fabricating sub numbers since wotlk cliff dived after the cata prepatch. Retail retards think its normal for servers to be ghost towns in non-cross realm areas, they've effectively already been consolidated into one and the only people playing classic are bottom barrel streamers and their groupies.
>>730883475Trying too hard
>>730875620MMO's were going in all kinds of directions before wow came out. When wow did come out it when its own way aswell but it was also the most competently designed mmo yet and people flocked to it. It got huge, became THE mmo and every mmo after it felt the need to copy it trying to poach wow players instead of building a new audience with a truly new game.
>>730871664https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nCem2c_apoMwow was already becoming gay at the time
>>730868679The mmo genre is basically dead for everyone besides fomo whales, third worlders selling gold/boosts and depressed uncs who still consider their server first KJ kill to be the high point of their lives.There's no reason to invest in it unless you're some con artist studio looking to make a quick buck by paying streamers to shill your asset flip to impressionable zoomers willing to buy the deluxe edition early access pass just to make sure they get in mister streamer's clan.
>>730882725He knows that folderchad will gape him if he tries.
Meh, genre is dead. It's all about Online ARPGs now
>>730885923WoW-clones are just cooperative arpgs with longer grind times
>>730868679Is there any playable TBC private server? I'm dying for one!!!I saw even Warmane doesn't have Outland realm anymore
>>730868679mmo's suck anus, gameplay is bad, lore is hit or miss. the only mmo that had a brief golden era was Tibia, when it wasn't a handholdy gayfest
>>730874176>>730874832RPGs predated XP / leveling.
>>730875776MMO is the best genre because of amounts of players and a persistent world.
>>730877843>they aren't curious enough to explore possibilities either in character buildsAll you have to do in WoW is run SimulationCraft. It's not as if finding optimal builds would be anything more than sitting at a target dummy, anyway.
>>730878520>Questing and grinding mobs.>Good.>More fun than endgame PvP.>More fun than gathering, crafting, and trading to make tons of gold.You could do whatever you wanted immediately in a sandbox MMO. Nobody's stopping you from questing or grinding mobs. It's just not what the majority of people want to do, though. See the various stats posted ITT.
>>730878571Leveling isn't any less questing and grinding mobs than it was. In fact, the quests are more diverse. People just don't want to do it, made obvious by people only having 1 max level character.
>>730880960What A+ sandbox MMO besides Albion has erased in the past 20 years?
>>730891015>erasedReleased*.
>>730881696Making an MMO would be easy to do. You could make a few mobs and a zone per day and have it done in a month or two.
>>730882021Themeparks not having any or enough content while sandboxes always have content isn't retarded. Literally, the only thing stopping WoW from being a sandbox is repairs not costing materials. I also don't see you refuting how much time it nonsensically takes to level, nor wondering how fun has been solved.
>>730869285lollmao even
>>730883089>>730883359Source?
>>730880683>It should be good, but it isn't.would 'lateral' progression work instead of vertical (if i'm using those words correctly)? something that puts early game adjacent to mid and late gameinstead of>level from 1 - ??>completing easy mindless "collect 10 bear brain" quests>gain talent points that increase power>gain gear that helps while leveling but is useless later>gain abilities that complete your classit's more>start as your base class with all abilities>quests directly help the current 'war effort'>player power isn't as reliant on gear but it still helps>progression means unlocking the ability to ride mounts, player housing, new ways to help the war effort, cosmetic gear/player housing decorations>talent points shape how your class plays rather than boosts its poweri'm brainstorming so it's vague and unpolished, it might be a shit idea that someone's already tried.
>>730891349alright then where's your indie mmo?
>>730893293I can't have a computer until I get my own place, and that might be a while.
come pilly
it's not like horizontal progression doesn't get boring either. Most people tend to get bored after getting their 50th rare mount or tabard
>>730893293Hey, /v/, would you be satisfied with an ARK like MMO instead of tab target fantasy?
>>730894678 Only if it has actual MMO persistence and not just 70-man servers that wipe every few months. ARK-style survival with a permanent world, real progression, and maybe faction-style warfare or territory control could be kino. Otherwise it's just Rust with dinosaurs and worse netcode.
>>730869635>vanilla-WOTLK>vanilla>WOTLKrope yaself
>>730894264>I don't believe in an everybody game where everybody plays all day, every day.It has to be possible. All things are fantasy-meets-reality possible, and videogames are fun enough to immerse in as a living world.>Master musicians play music all day.>People who enjoy their jobs do it all day and happily.>DOTA 2 is played for 13M hours per day.For example, just let people cash out so they can always feel incentive to play (how they like). Make a wide variety of activities. Size and power that rivals comics. You can be a Jedi if you can afford to keep the gear repaired. You can be a titan if you can keep fed.Post your ideas. I think the basics are size, speed, AOE size and power, area denial like walls, and unique abilities.
i haven't played WoW since the end of WotLK but i still seethe at how they changed all the early raiding gear to be ultra uniform and boring during TBC. did classic keep it that way?
>>730895107nta but he obviously meant from release to wotlk. settle down nigger
>>730895224you mean like DST lasting you the whole expansion?
>>730895387i meant OP's gear set pic you'd see tanks frequently wearing early on before they all got changed to matching sets in some random patch
>>730895584if you mean tier sets being the best in slot then yeah that's TBC (except for hunter and some tier 3 sets in vanilla I think)
>>730868679>Do you really think themepark design has any place in MMOs?I don't know why you people obsess over the MMO part. WoW is just a video game, that was an MMO and now is just a coop RPG. "MMOs" didn't work, lots of people tried, the cost barrier to making them is just too high for experimental development which the genre needs.
>>730895786anon... i mean how they visually changed the random looking gear you'd see all the early BC tanks wearing to be more boring and uniform. i don't mean anything about how good they were or the stats
>>730896007What a perfect hole to squat over and shit.
>>730896007Surely, it would be less requisite to make an MMO than a linear story game. The latter has a bunch of set pieces, rooms, and content hallways that would be better spent making a world. All of that voice acting. Etc.
>>730896226Kek I am a shitter so it fits. >>730896327It costs way more, multiplayer is always more expensive but the features needed for people to accept something as an "MMO" is massive. You can get away with a cat and corridors for single player games, for MMOs you have to have races, classes, questlines, zones, range of enemies and mechanics, ect. Because something isn't an MMO anymore unless its WoW 2.0 which is ridiculous but people are retarded.
>>730894678Ark is the evolution of mom's your character is more capable and have more freedom to do whatever you want while interacting with other players. Only thing is its not MASSIVELY multi-player. You can only have like 100 guys in a server at max. Its more like a "big multi-player game" lol.Ark really is the ultimate game though, I haven't played it in years but my mind always goes back to it and even though I've been playing nothing but high quality single player games for a while now whenever someone asks me what my favorite game is I always say Ark. There's a reason negative or positive Ark steam reviews always have thousands of hours played the game is truly enthralling especially when you get pvp involved
>>730896683https://chatgpt.com/s/t_69696ba10f98819193896e966e2c257f.
>>730882884>Wow is and ugly game"I completely disagree I think its the best an mmo from 2003 could have looked. The style is impeccable the textures and models have that perfect low poly charm. Its not till legion that things start getting kind of bland looking
>>730882884>>730897414>wow is an ugly game in generalIts a style, but it isn't ugly.
>>730898308ugly style, hastily thrown using wc3 models and polishing polygons and texturesand hasn't improved much
>>730898421>MUH CRYSIS Get over yourself
>>730897114How would you handle base building in an MMO? It basically needs to be dozens of different servers that you can travel to with your items. That may even be an MMO still; WoW only does so many players at a time.
Shut up and level your house.
>>730899023i get why people like runescape graphicsi myself still love pixel graphicswow is on the awkward middle, you know they have the tech to improve the look of the game when you compare new and old gear, yet they won't do it for reasons
It's weird seeing people shit on WoW art style.I've never played it but I think it is a kino aesthetic. (outside the retarded overdesigned pauldrons )
>>730883089go check ironforge blud
post your cute fembelf character
>>730900618i'm the only mother fucker on planet earth who likes the big goofy pauldrons
>>730881148Free games don't matter. They'll always be popular because they're full of third worlders who can't afford to play a better game.>>730891015I can't name one because what the fuck does A+ mean? You mean something really good? WoW and FFXIV are garbage but that doesn't stop them from being the two most popular, most highly rated MMOs.
>>730900618It's weird seeing people shit on WoW's art style because I've been shitting on it since 2004 and I always get ganged up on by Blizzdrones who think it looks goods. I don't know why people think it suddenly looks bad. It looks just as shitty now as ever. Pic related is my toon!
WoW should invest in anime fantasy. I want a Hestia.
>>730904687they'd ruin it like they did with the OPMxOW collab
>>730905896>OPMxOWWhat's that?
>>730906138this garbage
>>730906191Man, I loved playing DF. I wish everyone had 1 more ability and that his was more escape.
What's your biggest takeaway from WoW or your favorite game? I think mine's trinity (maybe ability count and/or class fantasy). It would maybe be really challenging to copy WoW's variety:depth.
>>730896007the irony is i think most people didn't originally come to wow looking for an mmo specifically, just a good game that happened to be onethe game has evolved over time into what its playerbase wanted from it - a casual co-op action-rpg with an involved endgame raid scenei don't think it was a good direction for the genre overall, but before wow the genre was pretty niche
>>730869635you can make loli's in BDO ? my dick likes it.
>>730907995That "builds" in MMOs are more fun when the devs just kind of forgo thinking about them from their end.ROSE and Flyff saved me from healslut mentality by showing me that I can just spec for damage from the stat-allocation half and choose/focus the healing/buff spells from the class/skill side to benefit myself the most, and whoever else I happen to feel like helping, instead of just attaching myself to a DPS player at all times to do all my damage for me.This didn't even mean I was even soloing the entire time either, just that I was off-support instead of full support.Do MMOs even use the term 'full support' to describe builds instead of just 'support' being only that nowadays?This felt the best to me in the RaiderZ betas where I'd play a Cleric that also took Berserker skills.
FFXI has never been surpassed as an MMO
You won't escape instancing if you don't want to give players the tools to defend themselves (pvp). You can't allow players to build structures in the open world and not make them destructible. The reason WoW is so heavily instanced because you can't do nothing about someone following you around to steal your resources.
The answer is a Dark Souls MMO and everybody knows it.
Anyone planning to try out the 1.0 when it releases on the 28th? I played about a hundred hours a few years ago and I liked it quite a bit so I'll probably check it out.
>>730870213>Those kind of build-your-fort Rust-like games are about as close as we've gotten to sandboxes.you're right, the only sandbox games that really work nowadays are single player (like Minecraft) or localized multiplayer games like you said
>>730913387Lots of people play Minecraft PvP.
The thing I miss the most is a social, readily available community to chat and banter with, and share game content with.It’s hard to find these days. Closest I got was in years was that group of 4channers who were all replaying XIV with new characters in preparation for Dawntrail. It was great. Something I had missed for a while now.I need more of that kind of shit. How can we have all this easy god damn access to communication, faster internet, billion dollar companies and all this shit is just dead? I mean what the fuck?
>>730877507it’s a SOVL thing, you wouldn’t understand
>>730913447just play turtle wow
I had an idea for an mmo where you have a large persistent world with a singular goal every player is gunning for, being the collection of a set of key items. each of these key items must be obtained in game via quests and events, and none of it is spelled out. there’s a limit on how many of each item can exist, and characters die permanently, so when a character dies their copies of the key items disappear with them, letting other players get more. characters don’t gain levels but many items and key items in game have useful effects. each character gets to essentially design how they function with a set of build points. if you do you gotta make a new character and stat over from scratch. people will naturally group up and pvp in pursuit of the goal items.
>>730868679>People want emergent gameplay, social dynamics, and to live in a world.Funny then how "People" never play your shitty world simulation trash.It's an RPG videogame with a permanent world you dumbass. Nobody wants their quest interrupted because xXxPanTyThieF_894xXx razed the town.All this "you can do aaaaaaaaanything" shit is a scam that would suck even if anyone could actually deliver.
