Elden Ring sucks because the lore is incoherent and impossible to understand. It's like someone took a book and randomly ripped 1/4 of the pages out.>I-its a boss rush gameWith a narrative that surrounds it that is impossible to understand. Yeah it's an effective marketing ploy, but at a certain point it's merely indulgent cruelty toward your fan base. Dark Souls actually had a resolution that provided sufficient context to make the whole manageable. Elden Ring "lore" just makes you look and feel like a clown. Probably one of the scummiest and sociopathic things to do to a fan base ever.
>>730869184Poor guy is trying so hard.
>>730869184Lore is irrelevant, 80% of the game is style, 20% is gameplay. Caring about the lore or the story is for autistic fucks who go full zanzibart unironically.
>>730869282why does the brony do this to himself?
>>730869184it makes sense most of time it got full of holes but because it has huge amount of lore dosent make it good.
>>730869184>Elden Ring sucks because the lore is incoherent and impossible to understand. It's like someone took a book and randomly ripped 1/4 of the pages out.First souls game?
>>730869530Dark Souls lore is coherent>>730869282Just venting sister
>>730869638>Dark Souls lore is coherent
>>730869638>Dark Souls lore is coherent I can 1000% tell you are a retard that doesn't understand Dark Souls lore the same way you don't understand Elden Ring lore
>>730869184The issue is trying to make every detail meaningful instead of accepting that they're mostly there for fun or because they're cool.
Years of only trusting item descriptions filtered midwits when elden ring required environmental context to understand.You can read the wiki items all day and never realize something basic like the hero tombs and sunflowers all face the erdtree.Stuff like that literally filtered midwits and when they realized they got filtered they went on insan cope sprees to justify why they didn't get it and everyone else did.
>>730869959Environmental storytelling is harder to consider because a lot of the areas were made before the game's story was finished being re-re-rewritten.
>>730869638>Dark Souls lore is coherent2/3 of DS games are basically non-canon how is that coherent dumbass
>>730869703>>730869725Yes. Dark Souls actually had a conclusion and multiple dlcs that cleared things up and contextualized much of the overall narrative. ER got a single dlc that only explained a little backstory and lead to infinitely more questions. Only a few things were left totally untouched in DS (nature of the abyss, Velka, ect) The core narrative is there, but the edges are fuzzy. In ER the core narrative is fuzzy. They are very different. We don't even have a timeline that's how bad it is.
Elden mid...worst game Fromsoft has ever created...
>>730870138You don't like ds2 we get it
>>730869959>playing the game filtered wikitardsgood
>>730870204>Yes. Dark Souls actually had a conclusionNo it didn't, retard>ER got a single dlc that only explained a little backstoryWrong
>>730870138DS3 references both DS1 and DS2.1 more than 2, sure, but 2 is still important.
>>730870204What conclusion?DS1 had a conclusion because no one knew anything else was coming. DS2 had a deliberate anti-climax of an ending. DS3 had two separate ending possibilities.
>>730869184the lore is actually surprisingly straightforward in ER in comparison to DS
>>730869325>80% of the game is style, 20% is gameplay.I'd flip those numbersgameplay is king, regardless of the coat of paint you put on it
>>730870204>Dark Souls actually had a conclusionLol???
>>730870812You had to play it though, that part filtered so many people.
>to understand the story you need to read avery comments on items
>>730871343You just need to look around while playing and 99% fits into place.
>>730870812Do you not understand DS? What's holding you up? I guess we played different games. Tell me what OP pic is and I will concede.
>>730871949>Do you not understand DS?You clearly don't
>>730869184I don't get why people argue over lore when Miyazaki has said for years that he intentionally puts in holes in order to leave things up for interpretation.
>>730869184idk what happened the entire game it was just killing cool monsters while looking cool
>>730871949>Tell me what OP pic is It's Marika usurping spirits from the body of a Goddess wrapped in a funerary shroud.
>>730871949Marika reachiing into offal from a jar and finding her people's hair in it. She then holds it up to show the power beyond the gate that she made the sacrifice.
>>730869184>dude this game doesn’t have an anime protagonist and his gf that I can simp about.>how am I supposed to stay engaged in the game when I don’t meet specially characters with sad back stories to team up? How can I possibly enjoy this game without cut scenes where I set my controller down and eat popcorn? >dudes, why does Elden ring not have a solid story??? >guys how come dark souls 1 sold so well? There wasn’t a narrative ???>uhh guys? How come demon souls sold so well? There wasn’t a complete narrative with a climactic ending???>uhhh guys??? Why did dark souls 2 sell so many copies??? I didn’t even know my characters first and last name??>uhhh guys?????!??? Why did dark souls 3 sell so many copies?????? there wasn’t a single companion quest!! >UGHHH GUYS?!?! WHY DID ELDEN RING SELL SO MANY COPIES WHEN THERE ISNT A NARRATIVEDude just go fucking play final fantasy why did you even make this retRded thread
>>730869184>playing a souls game for the lore
>>730872005>when Miyazaki has said for years that he intentionally puts in holes in order to leave things up for interpretationSource: your ass
>>730869184The lore isn't hard to understand in er at all. What the fuck is wrong with the iq of this board?
>>730870880Nah the gameplay is too basic, without the visuals the game would be long forgotten.That's clearly where the vast majority of budget is going.
>>730871949Retard
>I’m going to seethe at the best video game ever made every single day for years of my youth >t. fag who will kill himself
>>730869325Night reign has maintained a large portion of players (74k right now), Elden ring is a gameplay centric game
>>730872085>>730872120>hair>spiritsThis is what I'm talking about>>730871985What don't I understand, kid?
>>730872456If you're genuinely, honestly, saying the majority of people who have played the souls games did it for the gameplay instead of the art direction I don't know what to say except that you're oblivious. This is clearly what set it apart for every other game, not the rolling around.>>730872456Game peaked at 950k concurrent and it's 50k now thanks to the holidays, it was 30k concurrent right before. But I won't argue the obvious any longer.
>>730872865Marika's tribe had blonde hair and the hornsent sacrificed them all to try and open the divine gate. The gate opens but marika is chosen as the one to get the power because the sacrifice of her people had meaning to her where it had no meaning to the hornsent. Life has meaning, and the death of that life has meaning. Its something the game is trying to show you everywhere and it culminates in the divine gate ritual.
>>730869184>THIS SUCKS BECAUSE>no punctuation>no real point>just autistic "I HATE IT AND YOU SHOULD TOO REEEEEEEEEEEEE"Sure are winning hearts and minds, aren't you, retard.
>>730872865>What don't I understand, kid?That Dark Souls was not conclusive in the first place. The concept that either choices just make you end up like an hollowed out failure is especially important and you failed to grasp it. It was a game written to receive at least a sequel, which it did
Elden Ring would be a far better experience with a coherent and well written lore in style of Lies of P and that's an irrefutable fact.
>>730872865>This is what I'm talking about Just because you and most of /v/ is retarded, it doesn't mean the game isn't clear, you subhuman ape.
>>730869184You can't spell loser without l o r e
>>730872975my interpretation is that she seduced and whored her way to someone's bedroom near the top of the leadership structure, then yoinked the ritual at an opportune moment, either through subterfuge or just using her ridiculous Jar Warrior strength.The really neat part of the lore is the implication that Marika was in fact chopped up and put in the jar, it's just that she now has a human-shaped clay body to inhabit. That's why she's all cracked and chipped in the first trailer.
Isn't a known fact that quest and other shit was cut or changed for the base game and DLC? Why would you expect that shit to come out into a coherent narrative.
>>730870812No, that's the other way around. DS1, BB, Sekiro, AC6 are all conclusive and easy to understand. DS2, DS3 and ER are fucking messes where the vagueness is so overwhelming it completely ruins whatever they were even trying to tell you.
>>730873183>my interpretationThere's no interpretation. She is putting her hand in a funerary shroud, which is seen in game
>>730869184It's a Japanese take on western fantasy. The Japanese have never tried or attempted to try to understand western anything. For them, it's all about the image. Nothing more. You're an absolute moron for trying to dig into this.
>>730873183>The really neat part of the lore is the implication that Marika was in fact chopped up and put in the jarkek
>>730873183>The really neat part of the lore is the implication that Marika was in fact chopped up and put in the jar, it's just that she now has a human-shaped clay body to inhabit.Source: your ass>my interpretation isWrong>>730873210>Isn't a known fact that quest and other shit was cut or changed for the base game and DLC?No
>>730873183What if the clay shit is just how her people work. The entire gate structure was a all fleshy in the trailer and stone in the DLC.
>>730869959Yeah, you can't even figure out the different strata of societies without comparing architecture, not to mention the Dynasty that's mentioned in a single item description but is prominently featured in the underground.
>>730872975Marika is a result of the alchemical jarring process. She would be using unprocessed hair when she is the platonic result of the process that makes no fucking sense.>>730872353Dumbass
>>730873524kek>>730873491The game is all about small environmental details explaining the lore.
>>730869959>lets make all sunflowers face the tree in the middle! It will look cool!>and lets add some dragons'n'shit! everyone likes dragons!OMG! All sunflowers are worshipping Marika and look at the dragons are there to protect her! soo epic!
>>730873524>Marika is a result of the alchemical jarring processFalse
>It's a bad GAME because of the lore, the GAMEplay doesn't matter!lol kys
>>730873606Data?
>>730869282sad to see such faggotry
>>730873707These threads happen a few times a day. Anons like punching down at the lolcow and regurgitating the lore back at him every time. Don't use discords it'll fuck your mental space up so bad.
>>730873651I played the game, and the jarring process has nothing to do with how Marika ascended to GodhoodMarika took spirit from a dead soon-to-be Goddess prepped for resurrection, the jarring process was used by the Hornsent Warriors If you weren't retarded you would notice the Gate of Divinity was created out of Horsent sacrifices. Marika contacted and used the Horsent, and even told them how to draw spirits from numen flesh, she wasn't "created" at all.
>>730872289it isn't, when you understand that there is no lore at all'there is nothing go understand in this incoherent rambling and fuel for youtubers
>>730869184>muh narrativeIt's meant to immerse you in the setting, i.e. supplement the experience of PLAYING the video GAME. It's suppposed to leave some things to your imagination, giving you enough to get you thinking, but never enough that you can't think for yourself. Insert the old anecdote about Miyazaki reading untranslated fantasy novels as a kid and trying to replicate the feeling of only getting ~10% of the story and having to fill in the rest yourself.Faggots who spend more time watching lore videos than actually playing the game are a scourge on the playerbase.
>>730873875>It's suppposed to leave some things to your imaginationIn case of ER they leave literally 80% of the entire setting "to your imagination", it's terrible. At this point you may as well have no setting at all.
>>730873834Imagine pulling whole paragraphs out of your asshole like this
>>730873173>you tell lore by some random pixels on one screen!gosh, From Software was a mistake
>>730873973Only if you are midwitted, everything makes sense if you've been thru highschool*. * I do not know how much world history you were taught in highschool.
>>730874095Bitch nigga, you spend DAYS in these shitty lore threads arguing with other autists over inconclusive interpretations, that's how "clear" it makes everything.
>>730874217what are you rambling about?
>>730869184ER has a much more complex and intertwined lore than DS, but Miyazaki in his retarded wisdom decided to approach the story-telling EXACTLY the same way. So the world is dead, everyone is a zombie and those who aren't speak in a vague manner, and most of the worldbuilding is relayed through item descriptions.ER DOES add some NPCs that actually feel like they belong in an RPG due to how much dialogue they have (Gideon, Ranni, Iji and Varrè), but they don't really tell you anything substantial to understand the setting. The big issue is that whatever lore is in the "lore bible" at FS HQ, there's only 20% of it in the game, DELIBERATELY, due to Miyazaki's obsession with the "prease no understand engrish but rove engrish book" he experienced in his youth. I love the setting of ER but the storytelling really needed a shake-up
Didn't the Director say that it's intentionally vague so you have to rhyme things together and connect dots on your own like reading a book in a language you only half understand?Sure: that can be an excuse for just throwing shit at a wall and leaving it up to the player to make sense of it but it's not inherently a bad thing.Maybe it's just not for you?
>>730873875Conversely, the game having no clear structure made me want to burn everything (and I did)I first followed Varre because he said not to trust the fingers, and I was "ok cool, they do look like demonic shit" but then he strayed into cult shit.The fact is, nobody on this game, enviroment, item description nor NPC, gave me a solid reason to care for this broken world.
>>730874053The only one pulling shit out of his asshole is you. The trailer shows where Marika usurp spirits from to gain runic power and that's not the jars. Marika didn't need the jars, the jars existed for the Hornsent to obtain power.The notion that Marika was created or even just "forced" by the Hornsent in any way is completely demented. The game has Marika express guilt and a direct confession of the betrayal of her own kin. The numen process of manipulating spirits does not need jarring, the Grandmother spirit for example leaves her body through asceticism, something also learned and used by various entities in the dlc and base game
>>730873183it's pretty obvious that she used Radagon's form to seduce the to-be Goddess so that Radaddy would be her consort. A third body was needed in the ritual (the vessel), but because Marika was mischievous she didn't tell the Goddess that she already was two people in one (her and Radagon). So it was the Goddess herself that became the vessel/sacrificial meat, and Marika and Radagon rose to Godhood together instead. Then she married Godfrey, making sure he never saw her as Radaddy (I imagine for him it would be like dating a non-biologic female without knowing).The only questions lie in the identity of the original Goddess, and how and why Marika was spared by the Hornsent in the first place
>>730873834Enir Ilim is made out of a mix of hornless and horned bodies, Shaman and Hornsent. Shamans are basically mortar holding the entire structure together. There's this trope in Elden Ring where if you shove a bunch of bodies together, you basically create a portal to divine powers. Rykard eating people, the Godskins and their flesh suits, Godrick's grafting, Hornsent Jars, Warrior Jars, Gargoyles, etc. Even the mass burial of the Merchants can be considered an example of it, with them summoning the Three Fingers. Enir Ilim as a Tower of Babel reference is the same. It is made out of bodies, just like the jar ritual is made out of bodies. A larger scale version of the same concept. Marika's hatred of the Hornsent that carried on even after her genocide, makes it clear that she personally suffered at their hands. And the game is hinting very clearly that it was via the jar ritual.
>>730874520I did the chaos ending so I could see the melina lore anons were talking about. The whole run was pretty cool.It felt good finally knowing her full story.
>>730874520Yeah, it isn't nearly as good as the early souls games in that regard. At least dark souls 1 gives you a clear point of connection at the start with Oscar even if the prophecy itself is vague.
>>730874592>it's pretty obvious that she used Radagon's form to seduce the to-be Goddess so that Radaddy would be her consort.This isn't obvious at all. What the fuck are you people talking about?
>>730874773because her/his back in the DLC trailer is suspiciously androgynous. And also the lines that are spoken>The seduction, the betrayalThere must have been a switcheroo. Considering Marika is two people in one, it makes sense that's what happened
>>730870204>Dark Souls actually had a conclusion and multiple dlcs that cleared things up and contextualized much of the overall narrative.Yeah it needed those dlcs to explain that shit repeats until it fades away into dust. Truly shakespearean unlike elden ring which is totally different somehow.
miyazaki zanzibartmaxxing in a game with the least depth and soul of them all is extremely retarded
>>730874557Data? Care to exegete any of that?
>>730874773He's gaslighting. If you've been in these threads you've seen his posts a million times. He does it when people start talking about the real lore.
>>730874445>Didn't the Director say that it's intentionally vague No>>730874627>Enir Ilim is made out of a mix of hornless and horned bodies, Shaman and HornsentNo, Enir-Ilim was build by the Empire of Rauh to be a tower of Ascension to Divinity in imitation of the Ancient Divine Towers. The Gate of Divinity is a crude structure created by the Hornsent on Top of it to imitate the Sun Gate of Stormveil, due to the Hornsent admiration for the Beast Realm.>Marika's hatred of the HornsentMarika feels no hatred for the Hornsent and would have no reason to hate them. Marika used and betrayed them. Marika never expressed hatred for the Hornsent and the Crusaders never mention any kind of Hornsent genocide as motive behind their aggression. The Hornsent lived in peace with the rest of the Lands Between for a long time before Marika veiled the Realm of Shadow and decided to start the war of genocide against those spurned of the Grace of Gold.Marika planned and executed the betrayal of her own tribe for the purpose of divine ascension.
>>730874862>There must have been a switcheroo.There was, thousands of years later during the Liurnian wars. Radagon didn't exist until Godfrey left.
>>730875003of course he did. No one had seen him in service of the Golden order prior to that, but it was his own person before merging with marika. It makes sense for this merge to have happened before Marika was widely known as God Empress, married to a hairy and test-fuelled barbarian
>>730874862>Considering Marika is two people in oneNo she is not
>>730874946Bingo. Look for the pattern like this>correct info>correct info>ends post in made up nonsense
>>730875097....she literally and blatantly is. Did you fight the final boss?
>>730874279This is really the issue. Elden Ring has much more complicated writing and more characters involved in the story, but is still presented in that vague-ass DS1 way. It worked in that game because there were like 3 people that mattered and their motivations were very obvious. And all the other stuff was just fluff that your protagonist learned a little bit about as they wandered in this mysterious world as a small little peon. Elden Ring has characters that change and develop throughout their backstories with complicated motivations, and there are a bunch of them too. You'd need an actual plot to grasp them, but instead we get the same vague and rambling presentation of all information.
>>730869184ITT: OP is unable to gather & reason about data, incapable of building context and has a very very very very very very very smelly axewound
>>730875163R=MIts just 1 person. Always was. There's a whole sidequest that becomes a mandatory quest for an ending route explaining it for you.
>>730874627This. It's also bound up in the rebus concept. The jarring process is referred to as an attempt to "make saints," and Marika is clearly a composition being. Even hinted that she has serpentine aspects.
>>730874986>NoYes
>>730875238>Its just 1 person...It's obviously not just one person, considering they talk to each other and have different goals
>>730874557No, the trailer very clearly shows her ripping an eyeball out of a giant squid's body. No, the trailer very clearly shows her plucking a pearl from the insides of a clam. No, the trailer very clearly shows her rummaging through the guts of a dead body.Why don't you open your fucking eyes?
>>730875278You'll get what everyone else does after you play the game. I highly recommend it the game is fun as fuck.
>>730875336are you merely pretending to be retarded, or is it the real deal?
>>730874986>No, Enir-Ilim was build by the Empire of Rauh to be a tower of Ascension to Divinity in imitation of the Ancient Divine Towers.Never happened. Marika's persecution of the Omen is entirely because she hates the Hornsent. The Omen are Hornsent. They're the same 'event'. Of a person being born with Crucible influence. The only reason Marika would have to genocide the Omen, is that she still feels seething hatred towards the Hornsent and is seeking to wipe them out, even after the fact.
>>730869184>game bad because story!!!Are you a game journalist? You sound like one
>>730875363There really is a quest explaining it. You'll find it if you play the game maybe. You have to do it if you want to see goldmask's ending.
>>730870280>worst game Fromsoft has ever created...bloodborne exists
>>730875452>"O Radagon, leal hound of the Golden Order. Thou'rt yet to become me. Thou'rt yet to become a god. Let us be shattered, both. Mine other self.>YEAAH DUDE TOTALLY THE SAME PERSON LMAO
>>730875494Correct.
>>730875214>I make shit up to make myself feel betterSays the tranny
>>730875163No she isn'tMarika only merges with Radagon at the end of the game, and Radagon was created by Marika with a larval tear, but was never the same entity as Marika herselfRadagon was created by Marika but is never, until the end of the game, Marika itself.The Golden Order Fundamentalism makes the nature of Radagon even more clear with the D sideq quest, a silver body and a golden body>>730875279No, the trailer shows none of this. It shows Marika taking the spirits from the body os a Goddess that was meant to be reborn in Divinity, and you can tell because Enir-Ilim is full of statues showcasing the actual ritual of Godhood where the dead soon-to-be Goddess is carried up to the top of the tower ona open casket wrapped in a fiunerary shroud. You can even see the stiches near the opening of the shroud itself, which is white and clearly not meat
>>730875628None of this is correct.
>>730875628You were saying?
>>730875397>The only reason Marika would have to genocide the Omenthey're kinda disgusting horngooble creatures, i don't think she needs a sophisticated reason to want fat barbarian monsters done away with
>>730875628>Radagon was created by Marika with a larval tear, but was never the same entity as Marika herself...Which is why she's two people in one. Two people merged in the same entity/bodyYou're just saying I'm right while claiming I'm wrong
>>730875628>Radagon was created by Marika with a larval tearUnnecessary. Shaman Empyreans can just do that.
>>730875817She hates them because they exist as a curse by the hornsent. She's trying to hide them all like she is trying to hide the shadowland because it is proof of her past.
Who is the formless master?
nobody cares about your dogshit friendslop mod
>>730875984GW
>>730874671Yes, that bitchShe kept saying "don't doit! Isn't life great" and I was like "no it's not"
>>730875984It clearly has the form of a goatmen tho
I think it is because the Jap who made entire soul series can't write for shits or Japs can't properly write good european style stories without it is being awkward so they leave it is a trait of the story
>>730875984The formless master of everyone is the Greater Will because everyone is subject to the gestalt nature of it.
>>730870204>Dark Souls actually had a conclusion and multiple dlcs that cleared things up and contextualized much of the overall narrative... What are you talking about? The DLCs do nothing>DS1Uhm... Abyss does bad things(you already knew that)>DS2Uhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh... You know there were these kings and they... Oh you already knew that... Uhhhhhhh... Manus fragments bad and oh right, that's the whole story of the game... Uh... If you wear a super special crown you don't go hollow...??? And there was this dude who didn't like linking the flame. Kindling the flame bad, dark good. Yes. It's not as if DS1 and this game didn't imply that already. Woooo.>DS3Adds literally nothing to the story of DS3.Also the conclusion of the trilogy is MAYBE DARK GOOD BUT ALSO MAYBE MORE FLAME AGAIN LATER??? Which is just the same as the previous games.
>>730870138All of them are canon and none of them share a universe. 2 and 3 are just remakes of 1.
>>730869184Just wait for the movie bro
>>730876364The ENTIRE loretube community has come to consensus on DS narrative structure. There is NO consensus on ER. DEBUNKED.
>>730875397>Never happened. Yes it did>Marika's persecution of the Omen is entirely because she hates the HornsentNo it's not. First and foremost "Marika's persecution of the Omen" dates to Golden Order Fundamentalism and is associated with Fundamentalist culture. There's even a division between apothecaries helping the Omen and those perfumers that joined the hunt to purge the Omen. This is mainly because the Omen did not exist before Golden Order Fundamentalism, which means the hex causing the Curse of the Fell God happened after. Godwyn is in fact not a Omen. Only after Marika betrays the Hornsent and begins reform culture in the Lands Between to drop the Spira imagery in favour of the light cipher that the Crucible is starting to be seen as impure. This cultural shift is at the center of the transition between Godfrey, his banishment and the marriage with RadagonSecond, Marika does not care about the Omen or the Hornsent. Marika veiled the Realm of Shadow to hide her origin and sin, and this is central to Shadow of the Erdtree, to what Ymir says and in general to the storyThird, if Marika had such an axe to grind with the Hornsent, then the Realm of Shadow wouldn't have had prolific cultural exchange with the Lands Between before the veiling, nor the children of the Carian Lineage (which is contemporary to the Golden Lineage) would happen to have relationships with characters in the Realm of Shadow.It simply doesn't make sense to assume that the Hornsent forcefully subjected Marika to becoming a Goddess nor it is ever implied that Marika was abducted or opposed the genocide of her tribe. On the contrary Marika is guilty.
If you can understand basic metaphors and symbolism the story is pretty good.I'm doing it a disservice here but basically Marika was a slave to a people who were told by the fingers how to make a god. They failed an infinite number of times. Marila was told by the fingers how to REALLY make a god this time and stole the power of gods (the first sin).Marika then tried to make a perfect order without death. Sealed the shadow lands and one of her sons who had a power that threatened the erdtree (possibly also a direction by the fingers who are consistent in manipulating things behind the shadows)She urges the golden order to start questioning their faith because she's starting to get suspicious of it all.After birthing a whole pantheon of flawed creatures she calls children, she smashes the elden ring realizing perfection as it is is impossible (remember it's an Alchemy game, the whole purpose is the pursuit of perfection/the philosophers stone). The elden beast crucifies her. Marika's grace is relit in the tarnished she banished to attain death (which is necessary to become a god/lord) and she also urges her children to make something of themselves.So what I believe happened is she removed death so nothing could threaten her order by making a new god. She realized things were fucked and the fingers are manipulative shitheads. She and Ranni rebelled against them to try and make something new.
>>730876364>Kindling the flame bad, dark good. Yes.That's not what DS2 is about lmao
>faggotry yet againHere's what's actually going on, and I'll make it very simple for you to understand; What you can read and hear and learn about the story, of the ring, of the characters, of the realm, of the world, is not written by an omnipotent narrator.You're not reading harry potter, you're not reading a marvel comic book, you're not reading and learning about what happened, you're learning about what random people, some peasants, some passerbys, some gods, you learn about their side of the story, you read about their point of view, their perspective, and thus, it becomes a clusterfuck because nobody knows exactly what happens, everyone only know what happened to them directly but have to fill in the blanks>b-b-b-b-b-but how am I supposed to know thenYou're not supposed to figure it out, you're suppose to look for it and immerse yourself in it and you can feel free to fill in the blanks yourself, I find it so funny that you people still can't understand that this is how miyazaki's been writing all his stories so far, the entire time, it's always been this way because it's directly taken from how mythos has been written over the ages, whether greek, roman, norse, japanese, it doesn't matter, it's always a clusterfuck because they're all tales written by different people, sometimes from different ages, and people just try to make sense of it but since your braincells aren't trained enough for it, you can't seem to fathom that this is the case and you can only think in absolute 'no, there must be a truth!!!'TLDR; you're a brainlet
>>730876523Why were Morgott and Mohg locked in the sewers? Why do the Shunning Grounds exist?
>>730876541The problem is, the more you understand, the less it makes sense in a way. As your understanding increases in resolution, things get increasingly contradictory and confusing. More questions, which beget more questions which undo previously assumptions. Anyone who says "they get it" is simply lying.
Repost of a reddit threadhttps://www.reddit.com/r/Eldenring/s/KuWLr0tSap
>>730876748Marika wanted to ignore everything that reminded her of her past.
>>730876872She wanted to destroy the Hornsent totally and didn't stop after she locked away the Shadow Realm. Because the Hornsent weren't a race, but a birth mutation/defect.
>become a demigod>burn the tree>kill gods>nothing changes and nobody caresthis is the real problem with elden ring, not the fucking item descriptions and leddit fanfic
>>730876951She was betrayed by her own nature so the issue persisted.
>>730875747Nah you lost hard, you can actually see the stitches proving this is a funerary shroud, the same depicted carrying the Goddess to the top of Enir-Ilim. It's made clear that Marika was not a legitimate real Goddess, but an usurper that ripped the spirit out of the actual Goddess that was supposed to ascend>>730875832>Which is why she's two people in one.No she isn't. She only becomes two people in one at the end, and even says so. You can't say it's two people in one when they aren't IN ONE>>730875875>Shaman Empyreans can just do that.No they can't, this never happens ever, quit this headcanon. Ranni has an identical looking spirit by her side because her doll body it's not Empyrean flesh, Miquella left a fucking flower. No evidence that Empyreans can just spawn a double
Never seen a fan base filled with so many people that so confidently incorrectly describes the lore and story
>>730877045I don't know why radagon = marika mind breaks people so much and they act like it's the hardest thing to comprehend. Not replying to your comment specifically, just an observation
>>730877050There is no lore or story. Anyone discussing it is ipso facto wrong because it doesn't exist.
>>730877050>incorrectlyquite the opposite, they are all correct in their assumptions because the story is whatever you want it to be. fuck this dogshit writing and all the people that defend it.
>>730876748 Because the Omen curse defies the Golden Order Totality, which is the entire foundation of the Golden Order. It has nothing to do with Marika having a personal animosity towards the Omen specifically. Leyndell is hostile towards ANY kind of defiance of the concept of Order.You are legitimately mentally limited for attributing to Marika any kind of human-like character flaw as main drive behind her action. Marika is calculating and power hungry and playing the long game until the end. She literally left what was left of her humanity and emotions with the Golden Braid at her village.
>>730877160Because they idolized marika and everything around radagon shows she was just a scared woman at the end of the day.
>>730877045Then why are Radagon and Rennala's children demigods, empyrions even?
>complaining that the lore of a fromsoft game is incompletein most games the cool visual are mood music for the interesting story,in fromsoft games the lore in mood music for the cool visualsif you haven't figured that out at this point, after so many fromsoft slop being released, I don't know what to tell youyour problem is that you're a secondary, that watched youtube videos about the 'deep lore' of fromslop games and you tried to become a primary by playing the gamesexcept the games aren't about unearthing obscure lore and piecing it together, they're about running around cool locations and fighting epic bosses that ask zanzibart to forgive them between phase 2 and 3, to epic orchestra
>>730869184it sucks because it insists upon itself and delivers zero memorable content elde tranny could never ever be the cultural icon that Skyrim was, let that sink in
>>730875240Exactly, Marika might have been a single individual, or it's possible she's a composite soul representing her entire tribe's grief and resentment.Think of the FMA process of making a philosopher's stone: vast quantities of human lives are required to make such a potent substance, and those souls remain aware inside the substance.Marika is basically an alchemic creation, a Rebus/Philospher's Stone designed to act as the key to their divine gate and grant them higher power. Where and how exactly the Fingers got involved in this is a mystery, and I think the answer lies in what those impact points were before they got all Finger'd up.
>>730877252No. Totality means everything. The end goal was to subsume everything into the GO. It was Marika that couldn't stand the omens even though the aim was to incorporate EVERYTHING into the GO.The dlc explains why marika hated the omens so much and did something that flew contrary to her religion's goals.
>>730876523>Third, if Marika had such an axe to grind with the Hornsent, then the Realm of Shadow wouldn't have had prolific cultural exchange with the Lands Between before the veiling, nor the children of the Carian Lineage (which is contemporary to the Golden Lineage) would happen to have relationships with characters in the Realm of Shadow.All the important people locked in the Land of Shadow can be pretty well explained. Messmer, born with a flame that could burn the Erdtree and a deep capacity for hatred and rage, banishing him is obvious. Rellana, powerful heir to the throne of Liurnia, potentially could reinvigorate their resistance against the Golden Order after Radagon divorced Rennala, banishing her is a savvy political choice. Gaius, skilled commander but otherwise unimportant, no real reason to care eitherway. Bayle, Marika has no reason to give a shit, either way. Midra, Marika probably didn't know about him, but if she did, banishing him is a good thing. Otherwise Messmer's army all show traits of being from the early days of the Golden Order that we know Marika wanted to rewrite. The Black Knights use Crucible spells, Marika oppressed the Crucible Knights. The Messmer Soldiers all use Godfrey techniques, Marika (or more likely Radagon) wanted to get rid of Godfrey's influence. We know that Marika and Radagon put some effort into basically obscuring that there was an origin point for their empire in general, and getting rid of everything related to the early days is useful for creating the perception of perpetuity.
>>730877045>She only becomes two people in one at the end, and even says soNo you goddamn retard, when she says to Radagon that "he's yet to become her" and "yet to become a God", she's essentially just shittalking him down. Because he's the Elden Beast whip-boy, she wants to break free and he doesn't - but she has more power than him. She's the real deal, he's been GRAFTED to her. But it's clear this event happened long ago, otherwise Ranni, Radhan and Rykard WOULD NOT BE demigods, and Miquella and Malenia WOULD NOT BE afflicted
>>730877393>he's been GRAFTED to her.no, he is her.
>>730877393yeah, he got grafted to her, after the war with the giants.it's implied he's related to them, hence the red hair, but how could he have his own unique genealogy if he's just been Marika's gender swap the whole time?He fought in the war with the giants, destroying his own makers, which had Marika look down and go "he's just like me fr fr"
>>730877480Don't bother he's going to talk in circles to himself.
>>730877160>radagon = marikaOnly true at the end. Sorry but you didn't understand the nature of Radagon and the Rune of the Unborn and larval tears at all if you think Radagon is the same entity as Marika>>730877346No, Golden Order Totality means control over the souls of the dead in an Order bound to the Erdtree, which is why the Golden Order is equally hostile towards any kind of defiance to it. The Fundamentalists are even more dedicated against TWLID than the Omen. There's zero evidence that Marika has specifically personal animosity towards the Hornsent or Omen, and if she did it doesn't explain why Godfrey was banished when the Erdtree had no more enemies but hadn't conquered the Hornsent. I'll tell you why, because you are wrong and the Hornsent were not enemies of Leyndell until later, meaning their aggression towards the Shaman Tribe did not make them enemies of Marika. That's because Marika was behind it all in the first place.
>>730877737>No, Golden Order Totalitygoogle what totality means.
>30h "players" discussing lore, the thread
>>730877252Marika's hatred of the Crucible is beyond just opposition to heresy. Her enslavement of the Misbegotten, genocide of the Omen/Hornsent, use of Hornsent Lions as enslaved guard animals, antipathy toward Godfrey's Crucible Knights, etc., all show that her hatred of things associated with the Crucible is deeper than anything else. Malenia was born as an avatar of the God of Rot. She had every possible treatment and assistance provided to help cure her and fend off the infection. Even when she was a time bomb trying to explode and nuke a province. Messmer was born with the ability to destroy Marika's Erdtree. He was sent on campaign to wipe out all the Hornsent before having the veil drawn around him, so he'd never escape.Morgott was born a little hornier than other boys and was stuffed in the sewers to live among the shit and Revenants. Marika's hatred of the Crucible is deeper than her hatred of other heresies. It is less rational and less explicable other than human trauma. Marika is a woman, a human with the heart of a human. That is a key aspect to her character. The entire basis for Miquella's discarding of his entire human essence is a desire to avoid the faults that he sees in his mother. That she had a human heart and human capacity to hate and revile.His entire process of discarding his spiritual body's human essence only happens because Marika didn't before she became a Goddess and thus retained the psychological flaws of a human woman.
>>730877393>she's essentially just shittalking him down. Source: your ass>Because he's the Elden Beast whip-boy,The Elden Beast is nothing but the Elden Ring itself, which Marika controls, and does not exist as actor in this story
Yeah sure elden ring is coherent that's just why there's a litany of people suggesting otherwise don't trust your lying eyes just go with the flow
>>730873339Those are just the Two Fingers.
>>730877737Golden Order Totality is actually when the world ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ...>>730877773I already did, see above.
>>730877170Not really. The story is actually pretty straightforward. Its details that ultimately are not important that people get hung up onLooking at just the base game:>Marika establishes the golden order, rules as a god, makes a lot of demigod children>game of thrones stuff happens (Martin's contribution to the story is obviously the background regarding the family), Godwin is killed even though the golden order is supposed to prevent death since Marika removed destined death from the elden ring>Marika shatters the golden order, the intro of the game makes it look like it was because of Godwins death but the actual reason isnt never stayed>Marika disappears (we find out at the end of the game that her dead husk is in the erdtree)>by the time the player enters the lands between, more of Martin's game of thrones stuff happens, the family goes to war over who gets to succeed marika, no one succeeds and the lands between are in ruins with its golden age far behind it>the player is the one who ends up claiming the elden ring and chooses what the new order looks like (the elden ring being the set of rules that govern the laws of existence)
>>730877045Nope, looks just like the rim of a giant squid's eyeball to me. Why don't you use your eyes instead of making up fantasies?
>>730869184>>730869887>>730869703You know the real problem is at some point someone realized that /v/'s good community, coming up with cool ideas to fill the holes and make sense of Miyazacki's intentionally vague story telling, could easily be manipulated by coming up with schizo nonsense, then ways to defend it.I'm talking of course, about the Sun Realm Schizo (I.E Probably the same schizo as "Eric", "Name Schizo", etc).That nigger has forever ruined soulsborne discussion because he has an entire fucking Silmarillion for Elden Ring and Dark Souls that is backed by nothing in game, that he draws shit from.You can't compete with that autism, he deliberately created a fanfiction setting parallel to both games that he tries to argue the the tiniest detail supports.This isn't just some low tier speculation like "Is Seath Priscilla's Dad?, Is Gwynevere the mother?".No, this fucker has an entire HISTORY of civilizations not once mentioned in the entire game to explain Priscilla based on some small decal on some random fucking shield and continues to post it EVERY FROM SOFT THREAD.It's an intelligent mockery of Miyazacki's own mode of "let the fans speculate", because it's taken to such an extreme.
>>730877737>and if she did it doesn't explain why Godfrey was banished when the Erdtree had no more enemiesHe wasn't actually banished bro it was a plot for her endgoal she has him hiding in a boat off the coast of Caelid for the runtime of the game until he gets out and goes to Leyndell like planned.
>>730873339We do know stuff was cut, like the merchant mass grave being explicitly stated to be because they were set up by someone (ranni? I dont remember) as worshipping the frenzied flameNow it's just implicitly implied
>>730878140Shabriri was spreading lies that weren't actually lies and they got punished by marika.
>>730869184why do you hate this game so much? You post dumb shit about it everyday. If you hate it that much don't play it. there's a bunch of different games I don't like, and I certainly don't spend all day talking about how much I hate them. I talk with my friends about games that actually like. then everyone gets to share something worth talking about and we all walk away having shared good experiences. You're literally wasting your life away, that you won't get back, literally growing old as every second passes by and this is how you using your time. to bitch about a game you hate. other people like it, like me, it is what it is. I don't see it for the next lliyad. It's just a fun little game to play in between other things I have to do.
>>730878189He got filtered by it then went online and saw a bunch of people that weren't filtered by it and it made him feel bad feelings when his mind revolved inward to look at itself. Literally nothing beyond that - an idiot knowing he's an idiot and seething.
>>730877045Miquella left a flower girl because he was cutting off a portion of himself with no intent for that portion to do anything ever again. Radagon was made by Marika to be an autonomous double to do things that she couldn't while she was busy. She couldn't seduce and then mindbreak the Queen of Liurnia, but Radagon could. We know that St. Trina could ambulate and do things on her own in the past, because she was legendary as a wandering healer and had a religion dedicated to her for it. But when Miquella cut her off, he left her incomplete and unable to act on her own, probably deliberately. The same happens with Malenia, who creates multiple daughters that embody aspects of herself, including willpower. The same as Radagon embodied Marika's loyalty to the Greater Will and her attachment to her Golden Order.
>>730877839The Elden Beast is the muscle that keeps Gods in line. The Two Fingers don't demonstrate any combat ability. But the Elden Beast is very powerful and has the ability to use the power of Gods against them if they rebel. The Greater Will's scheme only works if there's an enforcer to make sure the Gods don't go AWOL or rebel or do some other stupid shit.
>>730877898No they are notThey are Lord and God, dead and reborn as One>>730877823>Marika's hatred of the CrucibleDoes not existIt's completely fictional. The Golden Order begins using Crucible Knights led by Godfrey in battle>Hornsent LionsDoes not even exist>>730877393No that's not true. That's schizophrenic.The Elden Beast is the Elden Ring and the Elden Ring is transmuted back into the Elden Beast only thanks to Radagon and Marika studying Law of Regression. Radagon was created with the Rune of the Unborn and the power of the Crucible to be Marika's Consort and complete her ascension to divinity. That's why Radagon is cursed with Giants red hair. Marika has no hostility towards him, they share the plan to study Fundamentalism, understand the Laws of Light and ascend together as one, which they finally do in the end after Marika shatters herself and him both (and straight up says so) and then they merge as they mend the Elden Ring. This headcanon that Marika and Radagon were one against the other is idiotic and low IQ.
>>730878259I forgot to turn off my stupid trip from another thread whoops. Agreed, and It really is the same guy, I don't understand this mentality. sometimes games are hard for people. That's why it's a game and not an interactive movie. sometimes you lose. That's part of the fun. with Fromsoft titles It's especially considered a feature. You change strategies, use the tools at your disposal. The enemies in this game were meant to be defeated. there are no impossible altercations. as for the lore, I make up my own because it's fun. I have fun with video games! why else would you come here to talk except to talk about the fun you have with video games and the joy that comes from sharing with others? I hope you're reading this autistic spammer, You're wasting your life with this.
>>730878262>radagon was an autonomous double while Marika was busyRadagon physically does not exist while Marika does, and vice versa. What part of radagon = Marika do you not understand?https://youtu.be/2fuH7TckQWI?si=ZieiNQiGcI-vTdsW>Marika falls to the ground>radagons hand reaches up
>>730877737Godfrey's banishment and Messmer's campaign against the Hornsent probably happened pretty close in time. If anything it is likely that Messmer was already fighting the Hornsent when Godfrey was banished. His army fights like Godfrey does. They were likely trained by Godfrey at some point. If Messmer is murdering the Hornsent, and Radagon is fucking Rennala, then once Godfrey cleared out Caelid, there was nothing left to threaten the Erdtree all the same. As well, Marika banished Godfrey with the intent that he was always going to come back. Even at that stage she knew she'd want to bring Godfrey back and return him to his place at her side. He was the only one she truly loved.
>>730878538To be fair, Miquella removed St. Trina from his body, so it's easy to see why people believe Radagon could also be removed.But that would imply Marika could even do that as a goddess, let alone would desire removing what would surely be a loss of her own power.
>>730878538The persona is the same body. There is a mysterious gap in what marika was doing when radagon was out and about and vice versa. Turtle pope comments on the highly irregular nature of the liurnian wars focusing so heavily on radagon's exploits.
>>730878441No, they're exactly the Two Fingers. They look identical to a pair and show how the Hornsent had unintentionally started to commune with a different divine force then they intended. They shot for the Crucible and landed in the lap of the Two Fingers instead.
>>730878262The item that lets you mimic items and hide is called "Marika's Mischief" and it's implied she often vanished from the palace or even the capitol altogether. Marika is often called a slattern or a seductress, but I think the honest truth is that she was a free spirit with god-like power and just did whatever the fuck she wanted, both good and evil. Mostly evil.The presence of "the golden lineage" with golden hair in the capitol implied that Godfrey's family spread far and wide, but I think the truth is that Marika had shitloads of bastards filling out the lower echelons of society. She was kind of a slut.So when Radagon goes to seduce Rennala, I firmly believe it was a place-swap where Marika was in his head the whole time being a silent wing-man.>Don't pick the option where you resist cumming to the footjob, or she'll die in childbirth, its a death flag>Wh-->CUM NOW DAMN YOU OUR PLAN IS RIDING ON THIS
>>730878418>The Elden Beast is the muscle that keeps Gods in line. No it's not>But the Elden Beast is very powerful and has the ability to use the power of Gods against them if they rebel. The Elden Beast is a Ring in Marika's chest and it's hilarious how the game literally tells you that the first thing it did after falling from the sky was trasmuting itself into the concept of Order but somehow you are making headcanon about this secret space worm being the actual mastermind of everything.No, the Elden Beast is simply Order. It's attuned to the runic form of whatever Rune the current Goddess has>>730878262>Radagon was made by MarikaThrough the Rune of the Unborn, using a larval tear. Because there's no indication that Empyreans can spawn a double>We know that St. Trina could ambulate and do things on her own in the pastNo we don't. St. Trina is equal to some ethereal entity >The same happens with Malenia, who creates multiple daughtersNone of which are herself, and that actually have nothing to do with Empyreans, but rather show how birth does not imply sexual reproduction in the Lands Between and shows why Marika did not need husbands to generate children like Melina. It's also meant to show the handling of spirits and creation of Sacred Trees through blooming of death>>730878826>No, they're exactly the Two Fingers. No they are not. They look nothing alike and they are not connected, just horns wrapping a God and Lord
>>730879040Pretty much. All the royal omens shoved in the sewers were most likely because Marika was fucking people with the mimic veil and omens were being created because she is the link to omens existing. The bitch probably smelled like aftersex 24/7
>>730878538>Radagon physically does not exist while Marika doesYes he does
>>730879080>and shows why Marika did not need husbands to generate childrenBut to be clear, Marikas children aside from maybe Melina all have fathers
>>730879212See >>730878738I do not care what headcanon you have, it's not true
>>730872395>at the best video game ever madeThat's not E33
>>730879174>Marika personally passed every one of those horned Omen like a kidney stoneouch.but yeah, considering immortality and the thousands of years of un-kept history in this setting, it's likely that Marika would have just dipped from the palace for a century or two while Godrey was fighting the Stormlord or whatever the fuck.It is said that on the day he finally witnessed his wife bouncing on Leonine Misbegotten Cock, only then did the Gold face from his eyes.
>>730878441>>The Golden Order begins using Crucible Knights led by Godfrey in battle>Gauntlets of the Crucible Knights who served Godfrey, the first Elden Lord.>Hold the power of the crucible of life, the primordial form of the Erdtree.Strengthen Aspects of the Crucible incantations.>In time, the strength shown by these knights, and even their appearance, was seen as chaotic and deserving of scorn. When her Order was young and weak, she made use of the Crucible. We see this in Horoah Loux (from the Crucible linked bear hunting culture), his Crucible Knights, and the Messmer Knights that are in tune with the Crucible.When her order gained strength, that all was eliminated. Godfrey left behind his animalistic side, the Crucible Knights were ostracized, and the Messmer Knights were banished. The Omen were genocided, the Misbegotten were enslaved, the lions that the Hornsent worshipped (who explicitly are have horns on their head) are turned into attack dogs. Marika's hatred of the Hornsent and therefore things associated with the Crucible is the one unifying trait that connects all of the above.
>>730879421>facefade, goddamnit.
>>730872329How can anyone be this retarded?
>>730879421She was probably mimicking as a male and fucking women. After doing it as Radagon and seeing it can get what she wanted it was probably a go-to strat to end bloodlines she didn't like or manipulate families she did. Omen happening as a result was largely an accident because of the curse she was just using the power dynamic to get what she wanted.
>>730879453Clearly those horns are just stapled on for the lulz. These guys (or their more powerful ancestors) were the origin point for the Hornsent lion iconography we see through their culture and bosses.
>>730879528oh no, the autist got triggered
>>730869184>incoherent and impossible to understandDumbfucks like you are why everything has been standardized to the lowest common denominator nowadays.You are the cancer we have failed to gatekeep.
>>730878538He did once. How else could he marry Rennala when Marika was living in Leyndell with Godfrey?
>>730879272Radagon has his own scarseal and soreseal>>730878738>There is a mysterious gap in what marika was doing when radagon was out and about and vice versa.No there wasn't>Turtle pope comments on the highly irregular nature of the liurnian wars focusing so heavily on radagon's exploits.No, the only weird thing is that Radagon came out of nowhere. Never it implies Marika was out there roleplaying as Radagon. This is simply not true.The idea that Marika left the throne vacant and nobody noticed while she lived as husband of Marika is laughable.Radagon is presented as his own character with his own desire, wishes and personality. Radagon was also somewhat troubled by his red hair and has a special affinity to Misbegotten and Crucible related creatures. All of this would be meaningles sif he was just Marika's body double but luckily that's just (You) being retarded
>>730879564Elden ring is also a setting with intelligent beast folk of semi-divine origin, like whatever deific lion-beast the Dancing Lion is based off of. Storm-hawks, Horned Lions, Gurranq and his whole species, Blaidd, the list goes on and on.It's less furshit and more inspired by those old woodcuts of humanoid figures with animal heads used to depict demons in illuminated texts.
>>730879040I think it is more likely that the Golden Lineage are Godwyn's bastards.
>>730879645There is no historical record of Marika while Radagon was around. When radagon exists all of a sudden the omen king is the one leading leyndell from behind the scenes. Godfrey is already in fake exile when Radagon is around.
>>730879645Godfrey was exiled already.
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>>730879764>Radagon is presented as his own character with his own desire, wishes and personality.This is not mutually exclusive to the fact that radagon and Marika are the same physical being.Next you're going to ask how radagon could impregnate Marika if theyre the same being, because you're incapable considering and understanding esoteric concepts. Its a sign of low intelligence
>>730879453>When her Order was young and weak, she made use of the Crucible.No, the attitude toward the Crucible changed because the culture of the Golden Order changed>The Omen were genocided, the Misbegotten were enslaved, the lions that the Hornsent worshipped (who explicitly are have horns on their head) are turned into attack dogs. And none of this has anything to do with personal anti-Crucible sentiment>Marika's hatred of the HornsentDoes not exist. Even the Crusade it's against those spurned from the Grace of Gold and has nothing to do with explicit anti-Hornsent hatred
>>730879971>This is not mutually exclusiveIt is actually
>>730879987And the culture of the golden order changes because marika doesn't need them anymore. The GO doesn't turn full retard until the fundamentalist age which is radagon's domain not marika's.
>>730879784>There is no historical record of Marika while Radagon was aroundWut? Did you forget that Marika called Radagon back to Leyndell? To marry him?
>>730879080We have every indication that Shaman Empyreans can spawn doubles. There's no need for anything involving Larval Tears or a special rune for Radagon to exist if we just take everything as being literal, which is the actual intent. St. Trina did exist as an alternate personality for Miquella for when he needed to heal the masses in secret. She has different desires than Miquella in some ways, but otherwise embodies his love and compassion for the meek and hurt. Until he deliberately discarded that part of himself, she was as complete as he was, but she was left unfinished to keep her away from his schemes to become a God. He likely already knew she opposed the choice - hence her telling us to murder Miquella for his own good. Malenia spontaneously spawning a bunch of children that are actually pieces of her psyche and identity, is intentionally an explanation and hint for how the Radagon-Marika thing works. We learned half of it through Goldmask, that they're one in the same person fundamentally, but not necessary psychologically identical. Then we get the other half through Millicent's quest, where we learn that these split off portions carry with them the psychology of some part of the whole. Millicent is Malenia's willpower to resist the Rot and hold onto her identity. Just like Radagon was Marika's loyalty to her religion and the powers that granted her Godhood. This is all as simple as it seems. You want it to be more complex for no rational reason.
>>730880062Very poor trolling
>radagon is marika>radagon is marika>radagon is marika>radagon is marikaOne of the most direct things Miyazaki has ever said in his games and you retards still don't understand it lmfao
>>730880160I do that to my dates all the time by sending a text to myself saying I fell down the stairs as my mom. They buy it every time.
>>730880278it was said sarcastically though
>>730879971>Next you're going to ask how radagon could impregnate Marika if theyre the same being,Radagon came in a bottle, then Marika shoved it up her pussy.
>>730880312Sounds hot
>>730879784Nah, Godfrey was out and about fighting his enemies and maybe playing court from his personal keep, while Marika/Radagon were off seducing Rennala. They were already at the point where the marriage was essentially over and they likely didn't even speak. It's really interesting to me that Godrey already had a separate castle with bed-chambers and shit inside the capitol, like the city-scale equivalent of your parents sleeping in separate bedrooms.Anyways, either Godrey got wise or otherwise outlived his usefulness to the Golden Order, and ended up hounded out of Leyndell, right around the time The Divorce was going on in Liurnia.Marika's primary personal goal, from what we've seen, is to collect anime superpowers in the form of her own kids and step-kids, and the whole purpose of Radagon's marriage may have been to create kids of Liurnian blood while also cucking their queen into a state of depression. By the time Godfrey was done his god-slaying, he'd already given Marika Godwyn, and maybe Morgott and Mohg as well, it's unclear who their dad is, considering how much older Morgott looks than Godwyn even before he dies.My personal theory is that Morgot and Mohg are Marika's oldest children, from her seduction of the Hornsent King or whatever figure ruled in Enir Ilim. She fucked him, stole his god-head, and tossed her hornsent kids into a fucking sewer.Godwyn's not the step-dad, he's the dad who stepped up. He's likely the reason Omen were allowed in the military, and seems to have had a good relationship with many races of TLB.
>>730879080Think of it like this - we are all retarded slob animu loving degenerates on 4chan but we have to put on a different persona in the real world. Why? Because we recognize that that other persona is of value outside 4chan so we naturally adapt into it when out in public.Now, imagine you live in a world full of magical space rocks that make things real and you now have your normiesphere persona telling you bs when you are home being your degenerate 4chan persona. Its telling you to wash your dick and clean your room and take out the trash and do the dishes.You know that those thoughts are coming from a you you've cultivated, not from a foreign personality that is telepathically talking to you. Its you. We all hide who we really are and put on faces, the world's a stage and we are all actors in it.
>>730880117No, the culture of the Golden Order changes because Marika buried the Realm of Shadow in order to hide Enir-Ilim and her sin, and stopped the spiral to study the light cipher, as highlighted by the Golden Order Fundamentalism logo and precepts. This is coincidental with a direct quote of Marika stating that she would not be blindly led by faith but investigate the depth of the Golden Orser, which means learning the process of accumulation of light and runic power. This is intrumental to Marika and Radagon ascension into Godhood amd the reason the Elden Ring is transmuted back into the Elden Beast in the end. But of course that requires actually paying attention to the game so I guess it's just easier to attribute the most half assed and mundane headcanon and ignore every part that doesn't fit your poorly coceived patchwork
>>730879987The Golden Order orthodoxy changed because Marika's circumstances changed. She no longer had to compromise, because she'd become the undisputed God Queen of the world. Compare this to IRL like with the Catholic Church. When the Church was weak early on, it had to roll with there being hundreds of branches of Christianity and tons of fundamental disagreements about theology. Then as it strengthened, Orthodoxy became the law of the land and inquisitions and crusades were carried out against heresy. Then in the modern day when the Church weakened again, it once again returned to seeking compromise with value systems that it disagrees with in order to survive. This is exactly how the Golden Order functions. Marika had to accept things she hated, like the Crucible, when she was just a potential God Queen, and not the divine monarch of the continent. When she got stronger, that entire chapter was shut away forever.
>>730880481No lol, it changes over time because a space alien co-opted her religion without her realizing it was doing that and by the time she realizes she's already caught in its trap. You people are retardos.
>>730880580>co-opted her religionYou cant co-opt something that was yours to begin with
>>730880419Meh, i think normal penis-in-vagina sex sounds hotter.
>>730879784>>730879836There is no historical record of anything in the game, we don't have a book of dates with gaps in it. But we know that Marika was probably still married to Godfrey when Radagon married Rennala, because Radagon was called a 'mere champion' for subduing one of the strongest monarchs in the world, which makes more sense when you'd consider that Godfrey was going around conquering way more land by force instead.
>>730880824Cool headcanon but I don't care
>>730880647The erdtree era while the beast was maturing in the tree was decidedly Marika's and was categorized as an age of bounty and plenty, people chilled out around trees and waiting for cracked tears to be made and it was essentially the most blase rendition of a Halcyon Days possible. Then it changes to Golden Order where it is categorized by war against anyone that isn't in this cult. That is when it wasn't her anymore and the beast was controlling things to protect itself. After that the GO has a pretty strong grip and warps into Fundamentalism where the beast persecutes very concepts and ideas that threaten it like a theologian refusing to elaborate to the masses on the religion. The erdtree era was the last time Marika was actually in control, everything after that is colored by an internal battle with an alien born of absolute order following its programming. >>730880824You can make a timeline of all the game's events. We've done it a thousand times in these threads. My entire post here is cataloging the 3 eras of Marika's religious empire in a timeline. You can put the pre-erdtree eras into a timeline also.
Elden Ring lore doesn't make sense because George Martin never actually finished it.
>>730880278People get that. But there's one part of that which they debate over. Temporality. Was Radagon Marika? Will Radagon be Marika in the future?
>>730880183>We have every indication that Shaman Empyreans can spawn doubles. No we don't actually>St. Trina did existNo indication of that actually. St. Trina existed in dreams and appeared as such only. There's no indication that Empyreans have body doubles going around>Malenia spontaneously spawning a bunch of children that are actually pieces of her psyche and identityMore nonsense. Malenia is spawning children because the blooming of Aeonia took life power from death and spawned some childrens as offshoot. She also spawned the Rot Kindred. Are they also Malenia body double?>>730880580>No lol, it changes over time because a space alien co-opted her religionYeah nice schizo headcanon pal>>730880278>>radagon is marika Radagon is Marika because it's a silver tear created by Marika, which is why Law of Regression reveals that the origin of Radagon is Marika
>>730880942The beast is the ring, it was not "maturing in the tree"Cool headcanon though I guess
>>730880481She basically just looked at the phantasmal DNA of existence and said "I'm going to make my own phantasmal essence of existence, with blackjack, and hookers!"Marika is really interesting because she's a character we never hear directly, never speak to, and only interact with her dead body, but we know shitloads about her. Not only as a person, but we can even piece together her build.>Marika's Scar/Soreseal increases Mind Int Fth Arc>Radagon's increases Vig End Str DexIt's possible that Radagon and Marika were created at the same time as the same being, but split off from each-other at the moment of their "birth" from the jar. Marika rejoining with him after the Giants may have been her finally tracking him down after they both went on entirely separate journeys.
>>730881024No, the ring is its own thing, the beast is the tree. Easy mistake to make if you don't know the game well. Cultures predating the beast used the ring, the ring is used after the beast is killed. The ring is its own thing that is largely persistent and universal. The beast was an ayyyy lmao using the ring bearer for its own aims.
>Scarlet rot uses a flower>Scadu avatar is a flower>St. trina turned into a flower>Balancers have a flower motif What does it mean?
>>730881139>each of the Marika x Radagon children have a butterfly associated with them, even MessmerWHAT DOES IT MEAN
>>730881139Cultivation and fecundity, its how nations are built. Even the greeks called the Corinthian architecture of their empire ancient. You stand on the shoulder of giants.
>>730881217pollinating insects, spreading the dna of the flower far and wide. Same way the numen eventually turn into myrmidon ants and the hornsent turn into shit eating flies.
>>730881021>There's no indication that Empyreans have body doubles going aroundTrina's Lilies trace her physical locations like Miquella's lilies trace his. Yes, Malenia's daughters are her body doubles. >There is something I must return to Malenia.>The will that was once her own.>The dignity, the sense of self, that allowed her to resist the call of the scarlet rot.>The pride she abandoned, to meet Radahn's measure. Millicent was literally Malenia's pride and willpower to fight the Rot that she discarded in Caelid. Turned into its own person who is a splinter or offshoot of the original. We return that psychological essence to Malenia when we give her Millicent's needle (which carries her spirit inside it). Millicent was an unintentional version of St. Trina or Radagon, who carried inside her a part of Malenia's original mind. Just like Radagon carries inside him a portion of Marika's original feelings toward the Golden Order.
>>730881139>Goldmask's mask isn't the sun, it's a sunflower>the true symbol of golden bounty from the true divine treeDid Goldmask literally just look through the entire fake-ass Golden Order and see the Spiral underneath?
>>730881134>No, the ring is its own thing,No, the Elden Beast is the Elden Ring>Cultures predating the beast used the ringYou didn't understand shit. Marika generated the Elden Ring by attuning the Gold she stole with the Gate of Divinity, essentially shaping the Rune and then having the Elden Beast, which is the concept of Order, transfered there. This is why the Elden Ring changes at every Age and then fades when the Age has ended. You don't inherit the Elden Ring.>The beast was an ayyyy lmao using the ring bearer for its own aims.Lol
>>730881374He was aware of the gods behind the orders. His mask is actually the erdtree seen from above/space. His entire ethos is accepting the rule of 'gods' as better than the rule of man. The game shows you the 'gods' come from space and aren't gods. That same ethos was shared by his people as evidenced by the hornsent grandam accepting her death if the dancing lion desires it. They are a cucked people.
>>730881358>Trina's Lilies trace her physical locations like Miquella's lilies trace his. No they don't>>There is something I must return to Malenia. >>The will that was once her own. >>The dignity, the sense of self, that allowed her to resist the call of the scarlet rot. >>The pride she abandoned, to meet Radahn's measure. >Millicent was literally Malenia's prideNo, that's a fucking retarded interpretation
>>730881414>No, the Elden Beast is the Elden Ringyou kill the beast then use the ring in all endings. They can't be the same thing. If you kill the beast the ring would cease to exist. Yet it exists in all endings while the beast is dead in all endings. Stop replying to me with your nonsense.
>>730880481Marika hated horns and their associated spiral from the start. Her Golden Order evolved, but it was a product of her changing circumstances. Eventually it internally schismed, where Marika privately began to hate the theology, and Radagon and the clergy nonetheless began to hyper-intellectualize it - this is directly paralleling IRL Catholic Scholasticism. Which similarly followed the 'all things can be converged' belief, this is why you'd see Catholic scholars reference Aristotle and Plato and other Greco-Roman writers constantly. Out of a belief that even pagans could convergently see the glory of God.
>>730881374I'm taking this deeper and really throwing shit at the wall now>Goldmask is the reincarnation of the true Avatar of the tree that was warped into the Scadutree>a golden sunflower Avatar of the original gold that predates Marika's veil of shadow>Goldmask never speaks, because flowers can't talk>his slow, seemingly random swaying is actually his only form of communication with the worldGoldmask has the soul of an actual Sunflower Avatar, annd is the true incarnation of the Greater Will that desires Fundamental Order without malice or prejudice, debate me.
Yeah people who cant comprehend radagon = Marika are stupid but what's even more stupid are people who think Melina is the gloam eyed queen. Although they have quieted down a bit since SotE released and Messmers eye looks similar when he unbinds it like she does in the frenzied flame ending
>>730881589Easy mistake to make since Melina is the new gloam eyed queen. A lot of people just use the same GEQ moniker because it was just a title.
>>730881568NTA but you've gotta be trolling.>>730881585This is fucking stupid
>>730881465>His entire ethos is accepting the rule of 'gods' as better than the rule of man....No. His entire ethos is "These gods are just as petty and prone to asking for exceptions to the rules as Man, the system can't work with them at the helm. For a perfect system of order, we need a perfect system of Laws that can't be contravened by petty immortals."His philosophy is laid out in fundamental incantations throughout the game. He thinks the Hunters are chuds and that the gods are fake and gay.
>>730881735I'm making a distinction between the ayy gods and the mortal not actually gods. He doesn't want marika running stuff but is fine under the beast doing it. Hornsent as a whole are supplicant to gods, so his manifesto will reflect that supplicant nature.
>>730881002>Will Radagon be Marika in the future?No, he's a sword now.
>>730881569>Marika hated hornsNo she didn't, there's no indication of that>>730881568>you kill the beast then use the ring in all endings.Defeating the Elden Beast physical form does not equal removing the concept of Order from the world.
>>730881856that's the thing, they have to be separate bodies at least, because Radagon gets turned into the birthday candle sword, and Marika's shatter remains are still laying around afterwards.
>>730881971It was his penis, no spot for that on Marikas body
>>730881971He subsumes radagon into a pool of... something. He's taking the qualities of radagon out of marika to use himself instead of by proxy.It isn't an accident that the sword crossguard has his hands destroyed and it turns his head into a blade. Radagon was only a weapon even in his man form to the beast. His final form reflects that.
>>730881026>It's possible that Radagon and Marika were created at the same time as the same being,No it isn't, because Radagon is the origin and mimicry of MarikaRadagon was created by Marika with the same Rune Radagon gave Rennala to rebirth children.Marika birthed Radagon with the Rune of the Unborn
>>730882151none of this is correct.
>>730882151Citation needed
>>730882142it's corpse wax, a material we've seen fairly often by that point. Radagon has been rendered down into wax.
>>730881503They absolutely do. Miquella's lilies exist as hints at places that Miquella traveled through. Raya Lucaria, Carian Manor, Sellia, Redmane Castle - places he would have hung around Radahn at. The Albinauric Village, Perfumer Ruins, Jarburg - places he would have helped the unfortunate atLeyndell, Haligtree - places he livedMisc. - places he traveled through. St. Trina's lilies are the same, generally around places that either Miquella couldn't be seen going, or which otherwise dealt with strife and pain that she was healing. Like in and around Nokron and Siofra, again in the Albinauric Village and the church with the giant Albinauric woman, near many ruins, etc. They're both physical maps of where these two went. Yes, Millicent was literally a portion of Malenia's mind split off from the whole. It is very much literal. There's no reason to invent metaphor here when her birth was supernatural and the entire storyline is about giving closure to learning about Malenia and what happened in Caelid. It also provides a clear and literal explanation for Radagon's existence and difference from Marika.
>>730882151>Radagon is just Marika using the character creator and respec for a larval tearThis is a funny idea for a meme but not for actual lore.
>>730882295>It also provides a clear and literal explanation for Radagon's existence and difference from Marika.We dont need one. Marika is a god. There's no mental gymnastics that need to be done to understand that she created a male alter ego and using some form of divine conception impregnated herself.
>>730882295I think you hit on something important that messes with people's mind.The game can be explained very easily using the info in the game but you always have to assume that the magical elements in the game are at work at some point and a lot of people can't into that small detail.
>>730881589>even more stupid are people who think Melina is the gloam eyed queen>>730881656>Melina is the new gloam eyed queenMelina is the Gloam Eyed Queen and always has been. There is nothing saying that the Gloam Eyed Queen had to be elder to Marika. We don't have a date for their conflict, other than 'early'. Which doesn't mean anything given that Melina is a spirit and Maliketh is an undying Shadow. But otherwise she is absolutely the GEQ and there's no need to make things more complex by introducing characters that don't exist or talking about there being multiples or anything like that.Fromsoft stories aren't that complicated.
>>730869184loretards be like
>>730882402>no stop thinking and agree with meOkay, but what about the part where her male alter ego directly opposes her by constraining her to the erdtree and trying to fix the elden ring even as she keeps it broken?
>>730882502Oh so you've just been trolling this whole thread ok you're not getting any more replies from me
>>730881923>No she didn't, there's no indication of thatCutting off or excising horns from Omens at the potential cost of killing them. Locking away her Omen children because they were born with horns.
>>730882483No, this is backwards logic. We can only definitely say things based on what is in the game for us, whether thats NPC dialogue, item description text, or something else. When you ignore those you get stupid headcanon like yours
>>730882295>Miquella put that butterfly at the end of the tutorial island to troll youSuch strength...the might...of a true lord.
>>730869703Developments in DS3 were predicted accurately by my interpretation. Your mileage varies, I assume.
>>730882538Marika and radagon being the same being does not mean they are the same personality with the same goals, values, or beliefs.
>>730873973>it´s terriblequite the opposite.terrible is if you consider your audience being mouthbreathing retards and have to spell everything out, even if it doesnt make sense like for example bethesda loves to.midwits like you are the reason why we have so much shit these days, kys.
>>730882502Most likely. She was stated to be an empyrean like Marika that simply lost the pickmegirl competition. All of the empyreans in the current day are also Marika's children and she set up a system in the current day to cuck them the same way. The hardcoded succession system by the 2 fingers is something all cultures accepted except marika. >>730882617The magical elements in the game are also explained but not many are ready for that discussion. People discussing the magical elements in tandem with the lore correctly seem to understand the nature of it but they don't elaborate (they shouldn't).
>>730882502Melina is just the kid they had to seal the power.
>>730882402Why would her alter-ego disagree with her on fundamental things like, "Should we follow our own religion"?It only makes sense when you do Millicent's quest and learn that these offshoots aren't just dopplegangers, but different portions of the original that embody certain traits. Marika created Radagon to carry her devotion to the Golden Order. Just like Malenia untintentionally made Millicent to carry her will to fight the Rot.
>>730870204The nature of the Abyss was revealed more or less fully in the Ringed City dlc.
>>730882295So they are placed where Miquella wentNot where St. Trina went. Because there's no indication St. Trina can just go around>Yes, Millicent was literally a portion of Malenia's mind split off from the whole. No it wasn't and this hilarious interpretation of what Millicent says is completely off. Millicent was generated because the Bloom manipulated Death all around the Battle of Aeonia to bring life, and this caused the unwarranted birth of some offshoot creatures. This includes an entire species of insects>>730882340>but not for actual lore.Yes it is, and that's exactly why Radagon has the Rune of Unborn. The game couldn't spell it ANY harder. The idea that Radagon was just Marika with a red wig after the game spent several dozens of line just building the character of Radagon as his own persona, now that's a fucking meme>>730882242The game
>>730882764>Marika is the Faith build>Radagon is the one with actual Faith>Radagon is the Strength build>Everyone always talking about how Marika could beat the piss out of anyone and anythingThey embody concepts and oppose them at the same time.
>>730882764>and learn that these offshoots aren't just dopplegangersNot need to do Millicents quest to learn that when basic critical thinking and reading comprehension makes it obvious they arent when you compare radagon to marika
>>730882764Because he's a distillment of an ideal and she doesn't actually share that ideal anymore. She created the persona to aid her in day to day conquest, but the persona was all in on the GO because he is an ideal made manifest so he does everything as a jackboot for the alien behind it. Marika is meanwhile getting suspicious that the faith isn't actually reflective of her own desires anymore.It gets to a point where she's locked up in a tree. She had her shit stolen from under her nose.
>>730882824he gave her the rune of the unborn because she wants to be reborn herself>literally sitting in a crib with the egg of rebirth>all her little clones look like younger versions of her, same hair and eye colorshe either lost a baby and her mind, or the cucking broke her so badly she wants to respect into a new life.
>>730881134>the ring is its own thing, the beast is the treehttps://eldenring.wiki.fextralife.com/Elden+Stars
>>730881139flowers are a symbol of abundance and decay, a concept I consider foundational to elden ring's lore. plants feed off nutrients in the soil that get there from organic decay and mineral erosion or death put another way. flowers are beautiful, but they don't last long and decay so that more flowers will one day bloom. it's a metaphor for the rise and fall of the civilizations we find in the lands between. the balancers in particular are amassing blood (blood drawn from the blade of their weapon drips into the chalice below the blade) to form a mass that summons the giant bloody bloom. it's an artificial crucible. the "balance" is causing death to create a mass of life in equal measure.
>>730882764Radagon never disagreed with Marika on anything>>730882862You trying to claim Radagon is like Millicent when he specifically has an affinity to Crucible and unique hair is fucking hilarious. How dumb are you? It's doubly hilarious because the ACTUAL offshoots of Marika like Melina mention being born not of a mother but directly at the foot of the Erdtree (likely when Marika herself generated the Erdtree), yet you aren't claiming using law of regression on either Millicent or Melina reveals their respective mothers. Because that's fucking retarded and Radagon is a LARVAL TEAR
>>730883095You don't understand the game. There's a reason a magical tree sprouts right where the elden stars lands and a giant space alien is inside it.
>>730883139>You trying to claim Radagon is like MillicentI'm not but if this is the level of reading comprehension you work at then it's no surprise all your posts have been as stupid as they are
>>730882824The insects are created by the Rot independently. They exist in both Ruah and in the Lake of Rot (either a former Nox city or a former Minotaur city).The latter of which definitively happened before Marika messed around with getting rid of Death. The pests are just a natural byproduct of the Rot spreading and either mutating or creating them by abiogenesis. They're the humans of the world that Rot creates. They're not an accident of some interaction between parts of the Golden Order.Millicent was created by the same processes that we see two other Empyreans engage in. The difference is that instead of being cast off intentionally, or made intentionally to function as a proxy, she was created blindly by Malenia in her desperation and internal strife. You are making things more complex than you have any justification for. The story is literal about what happened and you have every reason in the world to take it literally.
>>730883153>a golden star bearing a beast into the Lands Between, which would later become the Elden Ring.
>>730883139We get a recitation of one of their arguments. We see them fighting back and forth to shatter/mend the Elden Ring. We learn in multiple ways that Radagon was deeply devoted to the Golden Order and Marika had conspired against it for a very long time.
>>730883345You know the GO is propagandized to hell and back right? Who was the first elden lord according to GO doctrine?
>>730883408>the omniscient narrator is lying
>>730883508You think the narrator is omniscient even though you have to find out a hidden secret in the game? Who was the first elden lord according to the GO?
>>730883223>abiogenesisthis. and yes, each of these different eldrich gods has its own form of ideal life circumstances, with the exception of good ol' Chaos, who's ideal form of life is "there isn't any."
>>730883139Radagon has red hair because Marika was cursed by the Giants and that was a marker of it. She punted at least that visual aspect of the curse onto her double along with the personality traits she wanted to be rid of. Radagon is not associated with the Crucible in the final game. That was cut content from when he was written to be some kind of mad scientist heretic, and not the devoted one that fought to save the Golden Order.
>>730883576Item and spell descriptions typically are, yeah. If they weren't then we would have no lore because that's where most of it comes from in every souls game
>>730882276Corpse wax looks nothing like that. Sword looks like it's made of bone and flesh
>>730883675Why won't you answer the question?Who was the first elden lord according to GO doctrine?
>>730883716>Why won't you answer the questionBecause I'm NTA
>>730883772Then I'll ask you.Who was the first elden lord according to GO doctrine?
>>730872867You don’t know vidya, the appeal of souls is the gameplay
>>730883821Dunno don't care because I don't have a pony in this race.
>muh loreit sucks because it's tedious, directionless, and punishes you for not min-maxing since you only get enough shit to fully realize one, maybe two buildsthe majority of time spent playing the game is not enjoyable, maybe 10% is
Are there buster swords in this game? If none thats gay.
>>730869184>Game that is fucking awesome actually sucks because I'm a literal retardMany such cases.
>>730883073>he gave her the rune of the unborn because Because he didn't need it, after Marika generated him with that, as consolation prize for abandoning her wife.There's no reason to make up theories when the game explicitly tells that>>730883223>The insects are created by the Rot independently. No they were created by the Scarlet Aeonia, same as Millicent, and even those kindred and butterflies in the Realm of Shadow come from the Heart of Aeonia and wish to return to the Goddess that has forsaken them>>730883392>We get a recitation of one of their argumentsThere's no argument>We see them fighting back and forth to shatter/mend the Elden Ring.No we don't. Their objective is not shattering or mending the Elden Ring. It's shattering it and mending it with them merged>We learn in multiple ways that Radagon was deeply devoted to the Golden Order and Marika had conspired against it for a very long time.No we don't. This is schizo headcanon of the greatest degrer. Marika IS the Golden Order, Marika controls everything of the Golden Order. Marika enginnered the Golden Order, Marika commanded Radagon's actions and Radagon wishes for nothing mpre than to be complete and merge with her other self. Marika and Radagon study Incantations and Sorceries as both originate from the Greater Will to better learn true Divine Ascension, which is at the basis of their merger. And Marika literally states that, quite literally telling Radagon they will both get shattered to become one. This is made even more clear by the DLC establishing Death and Rebirth of Lord and God merged together as necessary step to true Divine Ascension, and the fact that there's subhuman apes like you still not getting the message despite the fact that the DLC boss was literally GOD RIDING A LORD AFTER THEY ARE BOTH DEAD AND REBORN makes me lose faith in humanity.
>>730883698>translucent off-white material with a skeleton bound up inside>literally rising up off the body in a spiral patternAll his skin and tissues got rendered into corpse wax, which is both a material that can be Grafted, and a divine medium, as other wax-ified weapons show.In face, we might be able to assume that Marika was literally just the clay shards of a hollow body, while Radagon was the bones and "glue" so to speak.Literally two parts of a whole.
>>730883073>she either lost a babythis is it.
>>730883576>>730883716>>730883821Genius way to prove they are intellectually dishonest. I get why the guy won't engage further.
>>730883854Yes
>>730877045Looks like a vulva.
>>730883854there are indeed buster swords, plural.
>>730883913>No they were created by the Scarlet AeoniaHow do the pests exist in places that Malenia never went to?
>>730883913>the DLC establishing Death and Rebirth of Lord and God merged together as necessary step to true Divine Ascension, and the fact that there's subhuman apes like you still not getting the message despite the fact that the DLC boss was literally GOD RIDING A LORD AFTER THEY ARE BOTH DEAD AND REBORN makes me lose faith in humanityTrue>No we don't. This is schizo headcanon of the greatest degrer. Marika IS the Golden Order, Marika controls everything of the Golden Order. Marika enginnered the Golden Order, Marika commanded Radagon's actions and Radagon wishes for nothing mpre than to be complete and merge with her other self. Marika and Radagon study Incantations and Sorceries as both originate from the Greater Will to better learn true Divine Ascension, which is at the basis of their merger. And Marika literally states that, quite literally telling Radagon they will both get shattered to become one.Headcanon
>>730884004
>>730869184>this hamburger sucks because i don't like the design of the plate it's served on
>>730883913>This is made even more clear by the DLC establishing Death and Rebirth of Lord and God merged together as necessary step to true Divine AscensionIt doesnt say its necessary. It was Miquella's plan to ascend that way.
>>730883576Godfrey. But Godfrey says so himself. Elden Stars is not a spell of the Golden Order. The GO is never mentioned within the spell. And it's hidden in bumbfuck nowhere because learning it means understanding that the Elden Ring came from the stars which are in opposition or submission to the Erdtree. And Marika wants to be seen as the only God ever with Erdtree as the only source of power ever.
>>730884253Correct answer is Placidusax.
>>730883854https://eldenring.wiki.fextralife.com/Colossal+Swords
>>730884296That’s pre golden order retard
>>730883928>>730883073She literally lost Ranni.
>>730884096I kind of like vulva shaped architecture, it gives a mystic aspect to the thing
>>730884296>>730884370Lmfao got that smug retard
>>730883073>she either lost a babyThere are four cradles in the library with Rennala, but she only has three living children.
>>730884370I know. You fell into the trap. Placidusax is the first elden lord according to GO doctrine, even though we know that it predates the GO.Use all of your peanut brain to find out why the game states that even though we know Godfrey was the first elden lord. I'll wait.
>>730876523>It simply doesn't make sense to assume that the Hornsent forcefully subjected Marika to becoming a Goddess nThere's a ghost in the shadowlands showing the hornsent with a whip forcing shamans to "get in the damn jar, it's all you're good for" and item descriptions saying that's how a saint is born.This is allegory to alchemy and mixing things to try and make the philosophers stone and "in filth it will be found". The hornsent were absolutely harming shamans and Marika would be insane to forgive them for that.
>>730883913One of the most obvious narratives of the game is that Godhood is a prison, you illiterate fuck. Marika is not the Golden Order. She is the leader of the religion and has the power of a God in many ways. But she is not stand-alone and she is not omnipotent and she is not the system that is dedicated to her. Marika's entire scheme is about freeing herself from Godhood. Perhaps at some point she realized that the Two Fingers and Elden Beast were charlatans and that she'd never have autonomy or freedom. Perhaps the weight of Godhood became more than she wanted to bear. Perhaps she realized the limits of what her powers were. Perhaps a thousand other reasons. It is why she conspired with Godfrey for him to return one day. It is why she caused the Shattering in the first place. It is why she and Radagon fought over control. Marika isn't the Golden Order, she's a figurehead put in place by the Two Fingers and Elden Beast to prop up the Greater Will's dominion on Earth, long after the GW abandoned the planet. Marika's entire desire was to free herself from Godhood, and she used the Shattering Civil War and the return of the Tarnished as a means to create a single warrior strong enough to kill the Elden Beast and break the grasp of the Fingers.
>>730884407It’s funny because he literally got it backwards. Godfrey is NOT the first Elden Lord but he IS the first Elden Lord of the GO
It's hilarious to watch spergs argue about the most fundamental plot elements. Marika is Radagon! No, she is not! Elden Beast is Elden Ring!
>>730884498Most correct non-schizo thing said in this thread
>>730884497And all the shamans die except Marika. She wasn't jarred when the rest were, and she becomes a god.Seduction and betrayal.
>>730884498Marika just had a woman moment when her son died anon
>>730884576>Marika is Radagon! No, she is not!Has to be trolls at this point.
>>730884445Ranni is described as the last of the Carrian princesses, implying she had some sisters.
>>730884669Nope. Rennala and Rellana were also carian princesses.
>>730884080>How do the pests exist in places that Malenia never went to?Because the game literally states that they did>Incantation used by Romina, Saint of the Bud.>Summons a myriad of butterflies while performing a gentle twirl.>The butterflies break apart on contact,scattering rot and setting off a chain reaction.>The scarlet butterflies are as the Goddess of Rot's wings.>Bereft of a master, they were soothed by Romina, who reached out to them.Imagine ACTUALLY reading the fucking game instead of making up whatever headcanon uh?>>730884083No, everything of that is true>>730884194Yes it is. Enir-Ilim even shows nonstop that a God and a Lord must be dead and be reborn as one, literally in the most blatant way possible as two bodies in a shroud embraced together. It doesn't get anymore clear than that. Even the Arcane Outer Gods are reborn from death? The Formless Mother? A maiden that was crushed. Malenia, she has to die to be reborn as Goddess with the Bloom.
isn't it weird how the grafted scion at the very beginning of the game is eerily reminiscent of the consort radahn fight? a bishonen grafted to a larger body with a symbol of marika's divinity in the background. and you're given a bunch of tools right at the start that trace back to miquella or st trina. and somehow our tarnished, a forgotten and outcast thing that fits exactly with what miquella wants to save, can see grace where no other tarnished but godfrey himself can. the popular opinion on who's guiding us with grace is marika or the two fingers, but I'm starting to think it's miquella.
>>730884459Placidusax precedes the Age of the Edtree and thus the Golden Order. The Golden Order preaches that Marika is the One True Goddess, and her first husband Godfrey is the First Elden Lord. The Golden Order censored anything that could hint at the existence of Gods other than Marika, which is also why she sealed off the Scadulands.
>>730884889>Placidusax precedes the Age of the Edtree and thus the Golden Order.I know. And the GO recognizes it as the first elden lord.Use all of your peanut brain to reason why.
>>730883913Miquella's plan was all built around improvising with less than stellar material to work with. He wanted to be a God, but he was cursed with nascency. He wanted to be a God, but he didn't have a patron, unlike Ranni or his sister, so he needed to use the same trick his mother did and head to the divine radio station to have a chat. He wanted to be a God, but the Shadow Realm was sealed away by his actually-a-God mother. This meant that he'd have to do a bunch of shit to get around these roadblocks, involving maturing himself in a cocoon, stealing the blood portal powers of his half-brother, break into the Shadow Realm, and abandoning his malfunctioning flesh. Miquella needed a Lord. He wanted Radahn for his power and kindness. Radahn liked war very deeply. Malenia fought Radahn, and whoops, fucked it all up and ended up shoving herself into a coma and turning Radahn into a zombie. Now the only solution was to wait for Radahn to die or get killed and nick his soul as it traveled into the Shadow Realm. But his soul would now need a body, and look at that, Mohg isn't using his corpse anymore!Its all improv, baby. Godfrey was the first Elden Lord of the Golden Order and we have zero reason to think that he died before Marika embraced him the first time. Placidusax was the/a Elden Lord during the Age of the Dragons, and we have zero reason to think that he died at all.
>>730884764When do you think Malenia visited the Lake of Rot and splattered a Scarlet Aeonia over everything? When do you think she dropped a Scarlet Aeonia in a place that was sealed before she was born? Do you ever just 'think'?
>>730884889That’s a bot anon
>>730884498>Godhood is a prisonYou don't know what that means, stop using this lazy ass copoit that actually only applies to how St. Trina perceives Miquella's path for everything in game, you demented retard.>Marika is not the Golden Order.Yes she is>But she is not stand-aloneYes she is>and she is not omnipotent and she is not the system that is dedicated to her. Yes she is.It's hilarious how you made your own headcanon to justify your retarded thinking. The game is very explicit that Marika IS the Golden Order. Marika holds and controls the very concept of Order as it is in the current system.>Marika's entire scheme is about freeing herself from Godhood. No it's not, this is a gay headcanon made up by retards like you to avoid having to use braincells (which you lack) to draw actual meaning.Marika's actions are aimed at merging with Radagon>Perhaps at some point she realized that the Two Fingers and Elden Beast were charlatans and that she'd never have autonomy or freedom.Except that's not teue and the Fingers are effectively a non entity that had no reason to poppose but also no eay to oppose Marika, and the Elden Beast literally does not exist as actor>Perhaps>Maybe>What ifYou are a fucking cretin, there's no evidence Marikahad any hostility towards Radagon. You can drop the retarded headcanon you made up pre DLC because you couldn't understand two beings merging was standard divine ascension practice. Now we know for sure Marika shattered herself and Radagon just to merge as one God
>>730884736Then who do all the Carrian princesses' towers belong to?
>>7308851083 sisters? Ranni, Selevus, and ranni's mentor.
>>730885151There's more than three.
>>730885202The location is called 3 sisters because there are 3 towers.
>>730885202>what if I just said something demonstrably false?
>>730884984>Miquella's plan was all built around improvisingNo it wasn't>He wanted to be a God, but he was cursed with nascency.That has nothing to do with Miquella's issues, dumbass. Miquella couldn't become a God because the Haligtree dis not attract souls to feed itself. The Haligtree did not attract Souls because the Erdtree shining would bind all souls to itself, thus the plan to Eclipse it. The relation between light and attracting souls is very central to how Sacred Trees grow>Malenia fought Radahn, and whoops, fucked it all up That's fucking retarded and wrong. Radahn had to die because dying in battle leads your soul to Helphen. He also made sure to control his Fate, freeing his soul from the Golden OrderThe Scarlet Aoenia was planned because Scarlet Rot is the power of using death for rebirth. Miquella planned the explosion and so trusted the needle for Miquella to contain the spread afterwards. He literally thanks Malenia for it. Are you one of those gay Miquella defenders that claims he dindu nuthing?
>>730884445and ranni is without a twin, uses sleep magic and has a secret relationship with miquella. weird!
This whole thread is exactly what I'm talking about. Incoherent story. Nobody can agree on even basic points. What a joke
>>730885098When you see the intro of Marika and Radagon fighting to break or mend the Elden Ring, what do you think that is trying to tell you? When Marika calls Radagon the dog of the Golden Order, do you think she's giving him a complement? When Marika talks about diving into the depths of the Golden Order and throwing away blind faith in the system, how do you think that could happen if the system was literally her, herself? When the Two Fingers run a propaganda campaign about the Tarnished putting Marika back in her place, why do you think they're doing that? When the Elden Beast rises up to fight the Tarnished who is empowered by Marika's grace, why do you think that happens? When the Elden Beast used Radagon's mutilated body as a tool, do you think that means he's doing Radagon a favor?You have invented an entire story that doesn't fucking exist in the game and have ignored the massive and obvious narrative that being a God is not freedom, but is instead putting yourself in chains.
>>730885413Anyone wanna take bets I put the over under at 2 years I’m taking the under, this nigga going to kill himself soon
>>730884973>And the GO recognizes it as the first elden lord.No, it recognizes Godfrey as the First, and Radagon as the Second. Otherwise, Godfrey would be the second, and more people would call him second.
>>730885486A caged god is beyond saving. I don't know how these idiots can hear something like that and still not get it. >>730885570No, Godfrey recognizes himself as that but the GO says placidusax was the first elden lord. Why would the GO say that? Use all of your peanut brain to reason why.
>>730885413Scarlet Rot is just the essence of an alien space god that likes bugs. Miquella thanks Malenia because she was a great servant to him and she did weaken Radahn like 90% for you to finish. You're also thanked by him for putting Radahn down, and you're there explicitly to sabotage his plans. Miquella is just a polite guy, but you were never an intentional part of his plans. He just wanted someone to kill Radahn and that you happened to also be the guy that showed up to his ascendancy with a sword in your hand, is coincidental.
>>730885476It's just sunk cost fallacy from the fanbase. Like the people who desperately sift through Nokron textures to find something to justify those shitholes and the random antler guys when it's all just leftover assets mashed together a la DS2
>>730885570Have you played Morrowind? Why would the ALMSIVI say that the deadra were anticipations of the ALMSIVI? In irl religions why would Islam say that all prophets prior to muhammed were real prophets but muhammed was the last? Its to give validity to something that needs to be validated by an outside group.
>>730874671>Jew endingApart from that I don't get it. Why is her good eye now blind and her closed eye now open? What happened to Torrent?
>>730885079>When do you think Malenia visited the Lake of Rot and splattered a Scarlet Aeonia over everything? No, it's the pest and butterflies that travel, which is what I proved and something you would know if you paid the least bit of attention
>>730885820Torrent got killed along with everyone else in reality because you melded everything into 1 giant ball of hellfire.
>>730869184I would argue the lore is way too coherent compared to Souls and is lesser for it. Too many questions are answered and not enough are left open.
>>730885108Renna's rise is probably Rennala's tower, Renna being her birth name, before she did that thing every other character in the game does and took on a second, royal name, Rennala.Ranni's rise is obviously Ranni's tower, but because Ranni never takes the crown she never takes on a royal name, probably Rannila considering the convention.Seluvis's Rise? Who know if that's even his tower, he could just be squatting, the bum.I'd bet it belonged to an un-named Carian royal, likely Rennala's mother.
>>730885221Yes? And there are still more towers.>>730885304>no such 'demonstration'>not even an argument
>>730885945The original towers were for Rellana, Rennela, and the snow witch. They fulfil the triple goddess hecate roles of maiden, mother, and crone.
>>730885945>unbacked speculationInto the trash it goes.
>>730886000See >>730886051
>>730885752>Scarlet Rot is just the essence of an alien space god that likes bugs.No it's not, there's nothing alien about it. In fact Outer Gods are related to elements or Arcane nature and not originated from the Greater Will. There's nothing alien about the Bloom, the Twinbird, the Formless Mother, the Night and the Serpent
>>730886106Rellana is a princess that marries her princeRennala is a motherSnow witch is literally called snow crone in the gameIts fine if you didn't realize that is what was going on. A lot of the game shits on people that don't get what is going on.
nice
>>730886051>>730886106Genuinely, who do you think it benefits coming into a thread and posting drivel like this?I don't understand what you think you're accomplishing with the equivalent of walking into a room discussing something you don't like, farting loudly and acting like you're the smartest one in the room.
>>730885901Except Torrent is a ghost and Melina is not melded and things still exist, just Samson option nuked.
>>730886203>no evidence>just headcanonUtter TRASH.
>>730886203It goes deeper too>Rellana - does what she wants like a young woman>Rennala - bound by her motherhood>Snow Crone - teaches ranniThey not only reflect the archetype but what the archetype represents. Free spirit for the maiden, bound by duty for the mother, and imparting knowledge for the crone.
>>730877839>The Elden Beast is nothing but the Elden Ring itselfThe Elden Beast is the living embodiment of Order, and the DLC plainly states that Marika originally had no order in her. It was getting the Elden Ring, and thus the Beast (the moment showcased in the CGI movie in OP, by the way) that made her a Goddess... And shattering the Elden Ring was her final rejection of that identity. So yeah, the Elden Beast is a separate entity from marika, with its own goals and alignment. And Radagon was more aligned to it, when he and Marika spoke>>730875494
>>730886285>no argumentYour seething is unconvincing. Cry MOAR.
>>730886341>digging further into headcanonNGMI
>>730886285Its unfiltered seethe because people show interest in something.There's an old pasta about women seeing men doing things and going over and fucking it up because the 2 minutes of attention are worth it.
>>730878441>Marika has no hostility towards him, they share the plan to study Fundamentalism, understand the Laws of Light and ascend together as one, which they finally do in the end after Marika shatters herself and him both (and straight up says so) and then they merge as they mend the Elden Ring. This headcanon that Marika and Radagon were one against the other is idiotic and low IQ.lmao you claim me to be schizophrenic, when I'm 100% you're the resident Godwynschizo who has his own idiotic headcanon, as showcased by this post
>>730869325>80% of the game is styleI actually find it hard to understand how so many people think the game and it's world looks good. I have personally always thought that these Japanese style game world are very boring, empty and soulless. To me, it always feels like you are running around in some quickly generated rock instead of a real world. It just.., doesn't feel like a world... You know how like 20 years ago you had cheap browser games where the entire world was just this 1 random soulless Island in the middle of nowhere? I have the exact same feeling when I play Elden Ring, Zelda, etc. They all have that soulless random Island feel. It's not an actual world. It feels like an empty browser game
>>730874986>Marika feels no hatred for the Hornsent>Sends Messmer to literally scorch them into hiding, and then use the Veil to seal of the Land of Shadows completely
>>730886519>projectionIs this why you can produce no evidence backing your headcanon assertions?
>>730885486>Marika and Radagon fighting to break or mend the Elden Ring,Shit that never happened>When Marika calls Radagon the dog of the Golden Order,More nonsense>When Marika talks about diving into the depths of the Golden Order and throwing away blind faith in the system, how do you think that could happen if the system was literally her, herself? Yes, thus her acting according to her designs>When the Two Fingers run a propaganda campaign about the Tarnished putting Marika back in her placeMore random nonsensical bullshit that never happened>When the Elden Beast rises up to fight the Tarnished who is empowered by Marika's graceMarika has no control over ANYTHING after the Order was Shattered. That's also why the Elden Beast can be killed>When the Elden Beast used Radagon's mutilated body as a tool, do you think that means he's doing Radagon a favor?Yes>You have invented an entire storyHilarious coming from the retard making up a fake rivarly and imagining random crapHere's an actual quote of the game"The Golden Order is the belief that Marika is the one true God"Marika is above all in the Golden Order. Marika is above anything. The Greater Will does not even exist as entity. Marika is above anything, in full control at all times.Marika IS the Golden Order and she is never at any point opposed by anything in her rule.The Shattering is Marika's plan to merge with Radagon, as stated by Marika herself which means Radagon's intention of mending the Ring is not in direct contrast to Marika, but a shared goal
>>730886341it really is insane how ridiculously deep Elden Ring lore. its almost as if it was channeled to the developers by God or other higher dimension entities.
>>730886682Feanor and the Silmarils tier I tell you what.
>>730886492nta but the whole of Elden Ring needs to be viewed through the lenses of archetypes. the problem lies with the fact that you nigger faggots cannot conceive anything that isnt conveyed as a disney movie.
>>730886156They're aliens. The Twinbird is said to come from space, itself. Every outer god is older than the Golden Order, and will last until after it, the Greater Will included.
>>730886682pic rel is bound to make at least 1 person salty.
>>730886995
>>730886794It's just that the snow Crone was explicitly met in the forest underground, hidden, not on fucking Carian private bedchambers.
>>730885852The butterflies traveled to a place that was sealed away deep underground that specifically houses weaponry representative of the Rot God that is unique from anything Malenia expresses (Scorpion Dagger)?Just give it up, dude. The Rot as an infestation in the world long predates Marika's order and is not a consequence of any metaphysics regarding life and death. It is just the physical representation of the Rot God spreading it control in little hide-outs here and there. Romina is a duplication of that in the Shadow Realm, who independently happened upon the Rot in her defense of Enir Ilim's seal. That is why her butterflies are unique compared to Malenia's because she is to the Rot what Midra is to Frenzy, another chosen Lord.
>>730881589>>730881656Melina was the daughter of Marika-Radagon seducing and fucking the GEQ before killing herMessmer was the other child resulting from this copulation>>730874592
>>730886203>Rellana is a princess that marries her princeShe wishes, I'm pretty sure Mesmer never returned her affections.It was that doomed, eternally pining sort of love.
>>730886995dont doubt it bro, playing Elden Ring for the first time truly felt like another push towards spiritual enlightenment for me.
>>730886328Frenzy can kill Torrent. It is why he refuses to be summoned in the frenzied woodland in the DLC.
>>730874946you fucking retard I rarely post my lore theories, you're conflating me for the resident schizo>>730875120nice fake pattern recognition lmao go back to school
>>730886995Oh so like when I'm losing in pvp and I lock in on my last 10th of HP and take my opponent down from almost full to 0.
>>730886532>Godwynschizo?
>>730887172and Ranni discards her true her body or self to become a doll in the witchs image. just fucking wow man, how do they do it for reals?
>>730887248Yeah. That feeling is divine in itself. Its why people like the olympics as a concept, you know you are watching people pushing themselves past what they think is their limit to do something amazing. In ER its why a guy that kills a big ass bear all alone in the wilderness for no one to see can feel the presence of god emanating from it.
>>730887298There's an anon that didn't like that Godwyn's story ends the way it does so he made up an entire game that doesn't exist and uses that to argue nonsense. Pretty sure they added the death knights in the dlc solely to tell those types to get the fuck in line.
>>730887352>Quickening is literally just the old-world term for "H-HAYAI!"
>>730887301That part was explicitly said by Ranni.
>>730887436Isaac Newton ended up getting grifted by alchemy in his old age. I like to think he said yolo when trying to transmute gold knowing he could explode himself.
>>730885446You mean Miquella, the son of Marika and Radagon and twin brother or Malenia?
>>730887183>The butterflies traveled to a place that was sealed away deep undergroundYes, in fact you find aeonian butterflies in the Ainsel River and Lake of Rot>that specifically houses weaponry representative of the Rot God that is unique from anything Malenia expresses (Scorpion Dagger)Yes
>world went to shit>due to a number of shitty things>now in a state of dwindling limbo>you are a catalyst>have to choose how to "fix" the world>conquer it>remake it>burn it to the ground>or>just bounceits Evangelion for westaboos
>>730887562to be fair, the backbone of chemistry was hidden inside all that mystical bullshit, so there may have been some grains of truth he was searching for.
>>730885634>Why would the GO say that?The GO doesn't call Placidusax an Elden Lord, the descriptions do.>>730885772Yes, Godfrey adopted the title of Elden Lord, but the existence of previous Elden Lords was censored by Marika.
>>730887750Its pretty much japanese morrowind. >>730887809I just think its funny that the guy that discovered gravity and created calculus to prove it also got grifted by mysticism that even then was described as a larp to trap idiots. Even people in his day knew alchemical texts were talking about something else than metals, yet he got fully fleeced.
>>730886623That is explicitly what happens in the intro. Marika shatters, Radagon fails to mend. They're fighting, and it is why they both crack apart. >FingersHere is what the Fingers tell the player>"Marika's trespass demanded a heavy sentence.">"But even in shackles, she remains a god, and the vision's vessel.">"Confer Great Runes to become Elden Lord, and join Queen Marika as her consort.">"The Fingers have willed it so." Marika is bad and she has been punished for her sins. Now take your power and press her into marriage as you retake the reins and run the show. This fits with the rest of the Fingers' propaganda about the demigods being forsaken and the Shattering ruining the world. >O Radagon, leal hound of the Golden Order. What do you think, "Leal Hound", means? She's calling him a loyal mutt of the Golden Order. Here is what you don't get, the religion of the masses called the Golden Order exists in dedication to her as an eternal Goddess. The Golden Order as a system in its internal mechanics does not make her omnipotent. She exists within a structure created by the Two Fingers and Elden Beast that limits what she can do and how she can do it. The Golden Order is a structure that governs reality, and Marika is given fiat to mess around with it in any number of ways, ripping out death, granting superpowers to those she supports, setting up a cycle of reincarnation, etc. But she has walls around her. She cannot go against the wishes of the Two Fingers or Elden Beast. And when she does, we see the result. Her imprisonment and crucifixion. Marika understood this and it drove her actions. For any number of reasons she became disillusioned with Godhood and decided to tear the entire system down from the inside, and the Tarnished were revived as part of the scheme. This actually contradicts your point entirely, because you can revive or can see the guidance of Grace. Marika's control. She still has power, because the chains go both ways.
>>730887856>The GO doesn't call Placidusax an Elden Lord, the descriptions do.Why would the description say something that we know isn't true?
>>730886941>They're aliensNah>The Twinbird is said to come from space, itself. Where?>Every outer god is older than the Golden Order,The Formless Mother is not for example, she was found by the fiends during Messmer's Crusade and is the result of a maiden crushed by Briars of Sin, and those grow ever since the Scadutree
>>730887949Why are you a nigger?
>>730887750greetings man who has only ever watched Boss Baby
>>730887734>aeonian butterfliesThe butterflies are called that because they're found by the Swamp of Aeonia for surface dwellers. But they're just another product of the Rot, like the pests. The same way as Miquella didn't literally birth the nascent butterflies, even if they represent him. Same with the pyreflies and Messmer.
>>730869703Details are left vague but all the important logistical stuff is explained in the first 3 minutes of starting the game. We learn what the world’s baseline is, what fire did to the world, our majors players interaction with the fire, and what will happen when the fire fades. As we play more we’re given more information about individual players but the where we are and what we’re doing is never left up to interpretation. The same cannot be said for Elden Ring. lore discussion can’t even universally decide on what the Elden Ring DOES, let alone what the mending runes do in each ending. Even if there is one correct answer, the fact that it’s not commonly accepted after fucking 4 years of debate means it was terribly conveyed.
>>730885928You're insane
>>730887975Funny how people being persecuted by marika 'found' a god that represents a terrible mother and marika 'found' a god of order while trying to order the world. Dragons live forever and 'found' a god of timelessness. You ever think maybe those alien gods from meteors just reflect a gestalt understanding of a thing and then make it real?
>>730886794If it isn't backed by specific evidence, then it's headcanon. Period.
>>730887920>That is explicitly what happens in the introNo it doesn't>Marika shatters, Radagon fails to mend. >They're fighting,No they aren't>Marika is bad and she has been punished for her sins.Except they are lying and have no way to reach or affect Marika>What do you think, "Leal Hound", means? It means that he's loyal to Marika, who is the Golden Order>The Golden Order as a system in its internal mechanics does not make her omnipotentYes it does>She exists within a structure created by the Two Fingers and Elden BeastNo. This is your made up completely unsupported headcanon. The truth is that Marika controls the souls of the Lands Between and the Fingers have no authority on her, let alone the Elden Beast that does not even exist as entity>But she has walls around her.No. This is more made up bullshit>She cannot go against the wishes of the Two Fingers or Elden Beast.So false that she engineered the Shattering>And when she does, we see the result. Her imprisonment and crucifixion. Except that's not true
>retards on /v/ still incapable of understanding elden rings story>meanwhile in the greater souls like community its often criticized for being TOO straight forward with its story and explaining everything
>>730888173This desu
>>730887975>>The Twinbird is said to come from space, itself. >Where?>Twin Bird Kite Shield>Shield featuring a vividly painted twinbird. The twinbird is said to be the envoy of an [outer god], and mother of the Deathbirds. >色鮮やかな双鳥が描かれた盾それは、[外なる神]の使いであり死の鳥たちの母でもあるという>外なる神This is the term used in Japanese to refer to space alien gods in Lovecraftian fiction. They be aliens.
Basegame Elden Ring >Marika persecutes the omens>Marika persecutes the albinourics >Marika persecutes the demihumans>Marika persecutes the nox >Marika genocides the fire giants Shadow of the Erdtree >guys, you’re not gonna believe this horrible, shocking revelation…. Marika genocided the hornsent!
>>730888156There's no alien. The Formless Maiden was a life maiden bound to the Crossed Tree, that was tortured and grew Briars from the wounds. She is still bound to those that are connected to the Scadutree (the Old Crossed Tree), which explains its affinity to Omen and the Bloodfiends
>>730888114>lore discussion can’t even universally decide on what the Elden Ring DOESIts a ring, a cycle, like the Nibelungen. It describes a larger cycle of life in its natural processes of birth, abundance, death, and fecundity in a ring. Marika removes death and the concept of death in reality is altered. She isn't doing this to make herself or her kids immortal, she does it to make her empire immortal. It doesn't work because you can't remove the end of a thing from reality. The game is telling you over and over and over again that there is a larger cycle happening outside of Marika's empires and that cycle always goes the same way because it is hardcoded into the fabric of reality itself. Everything wrong in the game is because that innate cycle is being meddled with. How do you guys not understand this shit by now?
>>730888327>This is the term used in Japanese to refer to space alien godsNo, it's the term used by the game to refer to divine entities that aren't generated by the creation of or runic power from the Greater WillThat makes them The Night, The Formless Mother, The Twinbird and The SerpentThere's no alien or space theme
>>730887949Descriptions always say the truth.
>>730888327If we're talking about the outer gods and the Japanese text, its important to note that the Japanese community views them as kami, or natural forces, and not western style gods
>>730888414These chucklefucks don't have a GED my dude.
>>730888507The west sees it the same way. The elden beast is an embodiment of order. Rot is fecundity and so on. These concepts are universal not regional.
>>730888463Yeah, when the game talks about swords its actually talking about something else entirely. No, you nimrod, the vocabulary is used to tell you what is going on. There's already a space alien theme with the Greater Will and its children/vassals that is explicit. The same as with the Astels. Same with the Moons. That vocabulary is used because it refers to something in specific in general Japanese literature: Lovecraft's type of 'godlike aliens from space'. This isn't a shock, its just a remix on Bloodborne.
>>730888628>The west sees it the same wayAbsolutely they do not. By and large they think they are gods. But that's a fault of the translation not theirs
The Elden Ring game world is a disc on a tilted axis with the "Lands Between" simply being the landmasses between in the inner hollow and outer edge. GRRM was equally inspired by Discworld and Middle Earth in his creation of the Elden Ring setting.You can imagine that the ER world was once a whole flat circle but a series of events has reshaped the land into it's now broken form. A meteor impact has knocked the land off axis and Farum Azula into the sky. The consequence for the rest of the land is that the land of Limgrave is now partially submerged and the weeping peninsula is barely connected to the main land, the opposite reaction occurred in the mountaintops of giants which were lifted upward these two would have once been on equal height.The other event that turned the world into a disc was Marika's banishing of the Shadowlands which would have previously filled the center plains of Elden Ring's world.Outer Gods are called that way because they exist at the outer edges of ER world. The Formless Mother? Deep below at the world's bottom. The Goddess of Rot? Near the northern edge of the world. The Fell god of Fire? Also at the northern edge but additional at the uppermost area of the land.All these names are far more literal than players would first think because their literal usage is unintuitive but if you look at the bigger picture they explain the world quite well.
>>730888713They don't. You kill those gods in the game.In western cultures you can't kill gods, ergo they aren't gods.
>>730888507They're both and not. The Frenzied Flame is both madness, in the depressive psychosis that drives people to harm themselves and others, and it is its own entity with its own plans and schemes that is foreign to humanity. The Rot God has the power to make things rot and decay, but it is also an alien that terraforms the world with its presence and creates new life for its own purposes. The Greater Will establishes order wherever it goes, but it is also just spreading some kind of celestial empire with vassals and followers. And it doesn't care about every backwater.
>>730888717>no evidence
>>730888748Show me where in elden ring you kill an outer god
>>730888414You’re being very flowery but that’s barely more information than >ohhh, elden ring, that which commands the stars… You've still not actually explained what it’s doing practically. Shattering the ring, besides starting a war appears to have very little impact on the world at all. Death is removed but things still die. We’re never shown how the fabric of reality is altered depending on the age and the subsequent alterations to the ring. How is the dragon lords ring different? The crucible? It looks massively different but there’s no text in the game that explains what fundamental changes to life occurred. You’re explaining it in terms of vibes as proposed by the story, but there’s nothing in the world we play in to back it up.
>>730888842you aren't using those terms right. I said god. you kill the elden beast.Inner orderOuter order Golden Order totality.I'm 100000% sure you've been put in your place with this exact topic numerous times.
>>730873216The DS games are extremely easy to understand. You're getting caught up in the minutia. The DS universe was a flat nothing until, on accident, flame was discovered. Then a whole civilization was spawned from that, but it was unstable because the fire always fades. So through trickery, people kept sacrificing themselves over and over, thousands of times, to keep the fire going. But eventually the fire faded anyway, and there was nothing left to burn. Thus it was the end of that world. ER is nebulous as fuck. There's no defining start to any of it and since you're outright told there've been multiple Elden Lords (of which, three are still alive), there's nothing to really tell you what is or is not the purpose of that "lord" or why you should give a shit at all. What started it? Why should you care? It's never defined. Which is why everyone in this thread is spamming their fan theories. ER is just a stabby game. It's not a proper dark fantasy.
>>730888883How many of your own farts have you sniffed itt, pseud?
>>730888628The Elden Beast has nothing to do with Outer Gods.Outer Gods are specifically divine elements that don't relate to the runic/light power mechanics. The Moons are not Outer Gods contrary to what retards say for example, because they are entities generated by sacrificing many spirits to bring together a Moon as divine element of the many merging in one. The Serpent , The Night and the Bloodfiends and the Death bird consume and devour directly to accumulate power.While divinity is traditionally obtained by accumulating runes that are used to commune with the Divine through Divine Tpwers or Gate of Sacrifices, Arcane Bodies accumulate and consume directly.The Ancestral Spirits for example draw power from spirits through horns, while The Scarlet Rot consumes masses of bodies to draw power from them directly.
>>730888964>no evidence
>>730888883You're either trolling or a dipshit>if we're talking about the outer gods, the Japanese view them as kami and not outer gods>uhm actually the west doesnt see them as gods either because you kill them so they cant be gods>ok show me where in elden ring you kill an outer god>wow you're not using those terms right i was talking about the elden beast
>>730889012The elden beast is the thing that decides what is inner or outer. You don't understand what those terms mean. >>730889042You don't understand what the terms mean.
>>730889012>no evidence>contradicts direct statements made in gameNoticed.
>>730889063Oh, so just trolling. OK have a good day I guess
>>730888964ER is supposed to be high fantasy. I can accept dark fantasy forcing you to fill in the gap, but high fantasy without a properly defined setting is a big load of nothing, these settings thrive on a ton of details and properly defined mythology and lore. And the worst part is, i'm sure Martin gave Fromsoft a fairly defined basis for a setting. They just wiped their asses with it.
>>730889012Im not sure what schizophrenia you’re spouting but this is a massively convoluted description for a very simple label. Outer gods are divine forces outside of the Golden Order’s purview. In that sense, the beast does in fact have a say what’s outer and what’s not.
>>730889172>ER is supposed to be high fantasyWhen has Martin ever written high fantasy
>>730889309He wrote elden ring.
>>730888836All the evidence is in the game retard
>>730889172>um actually high fantasy is this very specific definition I made up in my schizo mind
>>730888717i'm pretty sure that the Lands Between are called like that because they're a limbo in between the mortal plane (like the Badlands or the land of reeds) and the "divine realm", which is divided into the cosmos (domain of the GW) and the afterlife. Specifically, the LB is the gateway to the cosmos, while the Shadowlands are its "mirrored" counterpart that are connected to the afterlife
>>730889172Well, FromSoft has this bizarre idea that removing information is "worldbuilding". Consequently, the DS series was far more impactful but I didn't really give a shit about ER at all. I liked the new spells and the interesting locations. That was about it.
>>730889353No he didnt he wrote the background for elden ring, he admits as much himself. His main contribution was the family and their political and literal fighting, it's just like game of thrones
>>730889357>can't present it to support his assertions>immediately spergs out insteadSo your headcanon has no evidential basis.
>>730888667Nope>>730889063>The elden beast is the thing that decides what is inner or outer.No, Outer Gods have very specific mechanics of communion with divinity through physical elements. They all ignore directly runes and instead commune through blood, burning bodies, rot, the night mist or communion with the serpent. Those are all alternative ways to You are again doing the same retarded thing all retards that don't understand Elden Ring do, pretending something you don't understand is politics bullshit.The Outer Gods aren't Outer because they are against the Golden Order. Their way to reach divinity and commune with the many is simply different. The Eternal Cities created the Moons. Those are divine entities generated by sacrifices and the bodies of those sacrifices are left on the ground.Those are not Outer Gods just because they are heretical to the Golden Order (the Elden Beast is a non entity, Marika solely and entirely controls the Golden Order). They are the merging of many spirits together through a maiden that grows to then leave her body vessel. It's the same exact mechanism that makes Marika vessel of a Great Rune, the Moons are Great Runes in function and nature and contained by "vessels" like Ranni exactly like Great Runes
>>730889172>Martin gave Fromsoft a fairly defined basis for a settingMartin just wrote the relationships and drama between the demigods. I'm 100% sure stuff like the Outer Gods, Ancestral Followers, Astels, Elden Beast, Ancient Dragons, Formless Mother and other elements were 100% additions of Miyazaki and Tanimura (who was clearly involved in the lore of the game, since he was the original director of the pre-alpha while Miyazaki was working on Sekiro, and there are several parallels to DS2 lore in the final game)
>>730889403>Consequently, the DS series was far more impactful but I didn't really give a shit about ER at allThere's no emotional core to anything in ER.Why would i give a shit about being an elden lord? What does this even entail? Why would i give a shit about these NPCs when the game makes sure to obscure their character quests and give them unsatisfying conclusions? Why would i give a shit about this dead world with no future populated by zombies when i'm supposed to rule over it? Rule over fucking what?
>>730889403The strength of DS is that they built a complicated world around a very simple central theme. >entropy is coming, how to these different factions reactElden Rings core story is arguably something similar, about disruption the natural order, but there’s so many other wings of unrelated bullshit that it gets lost and the whole thing is thrown off kilter into who cares territory.
>>730888187It absolutely is what happens. They're not taking turns breaking the ring. Radagon is repeatedly characterized as loyal to the Golden Order, where Marika dissents from it. We even get this rivalry stated explicitly. >Marika's Hammer>Stone hammer made in the lands of the Numen, outside the Lands Between. The tool with which Queen Marika shattered the Elden Ring and Radagon attempted to repair it.So if they were working together, why would Radagon try and fix what she's trying to break? Marika isn't the Golden Order. >I declare mine intent, to search the depths of the Golden Order.>Through understanding of the proper way, our faith, our grace, is increased.>Those blissful early days of blind belief are long past.>My comrades; why must ye falter?It exists external to her. It is something she can research as a stranger, in the same way that her followers can. Once she had blind faith in the system she was a head of. Then she wanted to learn its truth and this scared off her followers. When she insults Radagon as a loyal mutt, that is because she doesn't respect the Golden Order anymore. He is blindly loyal to it, she's figured out its a scam. The Fingers don't actually think that any Tarnished is going to succeed. But that doesn't change that their propaganda is intended to spread a view of Marika's corruption and need to be subjugated by a Lord who will fix the world. That demonstrates their view, even if they think all the weak Tarnished in front of them won't succeed. Trina's statement about Miquella's state as a caged divinity makes this clear. Gods are not free. They're at the behest of their patrons. Miquella's is almost certainly just the Two Fingers again, given that he's never expressed opposition to them. But its the same for others. The number one way that you know Marika isn't omnipotent is that Morgott, Mohg, and Malenia exist. Explain them if Marika had omnipotence. The number 2 is that she had to scheme with Godfrey.
>>730888717You do know we can literally SEE other continents right?
>>730889615Before tardo steps in and bluntly refutes all of it with no evidence I’ll say I think almost all of it is correct. Unsure on your take on the fingers, the rest imo is spot on.
>>730889739N-no?
>>730889249>Outer gods are divine forces outside of the Golden Order’s purview.Wrong>In that sense, the beast does in fact have a say what’s outer and what’s not.No it doesn't because that's not the point.First of all Elden Beast is a non entity. Second, other Gods exist that aren't Outer Gods. The Moons are Gods but not Outer Gods and they exist as divine forces outside the Golden Order's purview.The Flame of Chaos is also divine but not an Outer God
>>730873042I love the game jackass, that's why I'm upset
>>730869184Elden Ring sucks because it's BORING.You can do whatever you like in a game, if it isn't boring.
>>730889770>I think almost all of it is correct. Unsure on your take on the fingersI'm mostly going from them freezing up when you actually get to the Erdtree. I'm not actually beholden to it as a view. If you disagree that is just as likely to be right. I think there's an issue for them where the right and left hands (the Fingers and the Elden Beast) aren't talking to one another. So the Fingers didn't think that a Tarnished would succeed in getting as far as fighting Morgott at all, so there was no plan for what to do if they couldn't waltz inside the Tree, AND the Elden Beast wasn't able to talk to them to tell them that everything was in lockdown on top of that. So its a total surprise.
>>730874279Some one gets it at least
>>730889560>Why would i give a shit about being an elden lord?That's kind of my point. At first I thought it had the same weight as being a "lord" in the DS series. Then I found out there were other "lords" still alive, and I'm like okay, why the fuck does it matter if I become the next head honcho? I get that the Golden Order is supposed to be responsible for the zombie plague or whatever because people can't die. But at the same time, even if you "fix" the Golden Order, I don't... give... a shit? The story was easily the weakest part of ER. >>730889567This. The ONLY time this game got me even a flicker of emotion was when that dying girl with Scarlet Rot ends up dying after taking out the golden pin you gave her. When robe bitch set herself on fire, I was just like okay. I felt more bad about killing the giant magic moose.
>>730889567The central theme of ER is probably "road to hell is paved with good intentions" but it's muddied so much along the way you can't even say this for certain.
>>730889865>god Powerful otherworldly being >outer Outside the purview of the central bodyOccam’s Razor says I’m right. So if you’re claiming otherwise, provide evidence as you haven’t yet.
>>730889615>It absolutely is what happens. No it doesn't>They're not taking turns breaking the ring.They are taking turns breaking and merging the Ring because it's their plan to get shattered and then merge.Marika also says this but you keep ignoring it and only taking the part of that dialogue that interests you, for which you have a wild personal interpretation>Radagon is repeatedly characterized as loyal to the Golden Order, where Marika dissents from it. No, this is a retarded headcanon>So if they were working together, why would Radagon try and fix what she's trying to break? Because their objective isn't to Shatter or Mend the Ring, but Shatter it and Mend it after merging>Marika isn't the Golden Order. Yes she is>It exists external to her.No she doesn't. Marika created the Golden Order and then shapes it as she see fit>Once she had blind faith in the system she was a head of. Then she wanted to learn its truth and this scared off her followers.No, your retarded headcanon off that statement completely ignores the actual chain of events. That's Marika announcing her desire to understand the Law of Regression and Casuality, and preannounces the Golden Orser Fundamentalism which is the basis of Marika and Radagon rule and their shared goal>The FingersAre bullshiting all the way through, down to specifically making things harder for the Tarnished, because they are specifically lying and using the Tarnished aas sacrifices, which is part of the Shattering>Trina's statement about Miquella's stateRelated entirely to Miquella, only retards like you decided to retroactively apply it to Marika, ignoring everything the DLC actually tells about divine ascension ironically, because the DLC makes the Radagon and Marika alliance even more clear.The "Radagon is the hecking Duty" posters like you are by far the most retarded and clueless, which is an achievement because Elden Ring is misunderstood by 90% of the idiots that played the game
Really enjoy the lore and world building, I'm suffering through the DLC cause I lack the heart to kill bosses with emotional lore. I'm stuck at the penultimate boss fight of the DLC. I invaded Uncbach and that was ironically the kindest Saber has been so far, fucks sake. Miquella make the world a kinder place, I beg
>>730889810Go to the haligtree/windmill village and look out at the ocean. Continents bigger than tlb
>>730890039No it says you are retarded.Outer Gods are specifically associated to Arcane and only called specifically as those 5
>>730889987It’s such a fucking massive L for the character drama side of ER that Melina is such a nothing character. She should have been automatically summoned to you every time you level. Even without writing more dialogue it would have done a lot to make her feel like a traveling companion instead of an optional exposition machine.
That's what I like. It understands that it is a video game first. Who gives a fuck? Just go kill monsters.
>>730869184>elden ring sucks because (all these reasons that have nothing to do with gameplay)Holy shit lmao this is your brain on modern slop isn’t it?
>>730888214I don't get it
>>730890370No it doesn’t. It tries and fails to do what they already succeeded at several times over in their other games. You may be satisfied with slop but you shouldn’t be, especially when we already know they can do better.
>>730890435>who cares if a movie has shit music, terrible directing, and awful casting>at least the action scenes are cool!
>>730890435I don’t know who on /v/ told you it was cool to want braindead button mashing with no story or context but it makes you look like a tryhard ADD zoomer.
>>730888214>le miquella is durr griffith redditorOr local bumdan hater berserkfag?
>>730888214That's not accurate at all. The community consensus is that while ER has more explicit detailing of core plot points, the narrative as a whole isn't just confusing but actively unsolvable and contradictory. DS has a coherent overarching narrative structure. ER doesn't even have a workable timeline dude.
>>730869184Elden Ring is more straightforward tho. It just has some shit conclusions one being the main one for the dlc. Dark Souls turned incoherent around 3.
>>730888368What the fuck
>>730889523>Outer Gods have very specific mechanicsThey exist outside the golden order's understanding. Thats it. The aim of the GO is to bring all things outer inner so it can create a totality. Thats the completeness that radagon and the beast were trying to achieve.You fags are remedial
>>730890558It was probably anon
>>730890558>>730890521Nice jump in logic retard but I never said games aren’t allowed to have strong narrative elements but if that’s what makes or breaks it for you it wasn’t a good game in the first place.
>>730869703The opening cutscene of Dark Souls 1 gives you 90% of the lore of the series straight up.
>>730890835That fuckin guy ruins everything
>>730890714Why do people just lie like this? If ER is so straightforward tell me what OP pic is. Use logical argumentation and sourced evidence. If you can't, shut the fuck up and die. Also provide me an equivalent example in DS. I'm waiting!
>>730890903golden hair. Stop arguing in circles midwit.
>>730890839The problem is I love the game, but the lore makes no sense and drives me crazy. 500hrs+ btw.
>>730890521You forgot the most important parts of films: cinematography and acting. It doesn't matter if it has good writing, a movie that lacks those is doomed to shit the bed. Same with games with gameplay and aesthetics. If gameplay is not serviceable it wouldn't do so great. Each medium has their requirements.
>>730890978Same but everything makes sense to me. I studied world history in high school though.
>>730890243>They are taking turns breaking and merging the Ring because it's their plan to get shattered and then merge.Literally nothing supporting this. Not even a single thing. There is nothing in:>O Radagon, leal hound of the Golden Order.>Thou'rt yet to become me. Thou'rt yet to become a god.>Let us be shattered, both. Mine other self.That says they're working together. She calls him a dog. She reminds him that he is lesser and that for all his desires, he isn't a God, he wasn't chosen. And then she says that they're both going down. Something she accepts and he fights against. Then she shatters the Elden Ring and he fails to repair it. There is nowhere in this that we see any collaboration. We know that Marika dove into the Golden Order and didn't like what she saw - we know this because she always intended for Godfrey to return and steal Radagon's place and help her upend the system. That was the seed of her Tarnished scheme. We know that Radagon was deeply loyal to the system, he was the founder and pioneer of Fundamentalism and sought to fix what she broke. Miquella's entire story is showing how there's no 'right way' to become a God. He seeks to avoid his mother's failure, of being a Goddess with a human heart, and then only serves to make himself even worse than she was - an entirely heartless deity. But Ymir lets us know that he's still fallen for the tricks of the Two Fingers just like Marika did. There was no way to avoid the fundamental problem with being divine, that you're bound by the system that is created around you. This is why the only other God that we know of, Placidusax's God, is just totally AWOL. Because they also realized the issue and just ran the fuck away, or got Disappeared as punishment.
>>730891031That’s very impressive anon you should apply for MENSA
>>730891095Why do you do this to yourself.>>730891117I am in MENSA actually. A lot of people at Lockheed are.
>>730891095> Literally nothing supporting this.Not even a single thing.Did you not watch the trailer? Did you not read Marikas hammer?Not reading the rest
>>730891146>Why do you do this to yourself.Its this or strangling children and puppies or something.
>>730890962Evidence? It doesn't look like hair. Its translucent. Why would it be hair? It makes no sense. I could just say it's sewing thread and be dismissive like you. Its radagon's quilt anon quit thinkng about it. Jar Innards is representing shaman girls were squished into monsters. There's no reason for marika to use the hair to summon the EB when she HAS the same hair and is only successful the result of the jarring process.
>>730890903More NPCs spell the lore out for you and unlike DS, item descriptions got more exposition dump happy.
>>730891146Oh, nice, I think we just bought you guys
>>730891216The game explains the mechanics of jarring my dude. Marika's people were shoved in jars to try and open the divine gate. >>730891254Happens all the time. I'm a holdover from the Gould/Martin Marietta days.
>>730891031Explain op pic then, brainiac.>>730891241So what? It has some higher res pixels? The entire image is still far more obscured.
>>730891327Marika reaching into the offal of a jar and pulling out the golden hair of her tribe to show to the power beyond the gate.
>>730891291Are you being obtuse just to piss me off?
I swear some of you never played the game you hate and just go off by what /v/ or ecelebs say about the games to force engagement since you lack attention irl.
>>730891182>Marikas hammer?The one that directly states they were fighting over the fate of the ring?>the trailerThe one that shows them going back and forth striking the ring, which we later learn was one fighting to break it and the other to fix it? Lose your fanfiction and just play the actual game and see how the story does a hell of a lot to set Radagon and Marika as oppositional towards one another. They're not allies, they had split loyalties. One to herself, the other to the system. Marika was disloyal to the Golden Order for a very long time before the Shattering.
>>730891390No, I'm assuming you've played the game and get how jarring works or what happened in the dlc in general. Assuming makes an ass out of u and me so shilly shally dilly dally and all that.
>>730891364Evidence? Why not show her hair? It's the same hair, but hers has been through the alchemical ritual. Why show random shaman hair? That makes no sense. You're just making things up, proving my point that the lore is incoherent bafflegarble. It doesn't "make sense" to you any more than it does to me.
>>730873875What fucking immersion?It's the least lived in open world and setting I have ever seenMost notably there are no villages with friendly, desperate people, aside from the jarheads village which is tiny as fuckAnd Frompigs have the gal to wonder why people constantly make fun of Souls "lore"
>>730874071I mean there's also the dialogue about shoving the shaman into the jars to make them divine or whatever
>>730891442I've played through the dlc numerous times and just saying "hair" makes no sense to me. I thought the same when the game first came out, but it doesn't actually make sense BECAUSE of the jarring process. Why hold up rando rotting girl hair to the GW? She's not pulling it out of a jar. You're just assuming things.
>>730891495>Why show random shaman hair?Her tribe isn't random to her. Thats why she gets the power of a god and not the hornsent. The shamans were nothing to the hornsent so a sacrifice ritual had no power for them, they meant everything to Marika so the sacrifice did have power for her. Equivalent exchange nigga.
>>730891528DS1 and 2 felt more alive than ER since it's more condensed.
>>730891528>Most notably there are no villages with friendly, desperate people, aside from the one that is therekek
>>730891615There were dead shaman in the gate as well. That's pretty equivalent to me. I think the strands are runic pieces she's pulling out of the old god's body. I have no evidence for that and I'm willing to admit it. That's my headcanon. It makes more sense than jar hair though.
>>730891712Dead hornsent I mean
>>730891712The hornsent think their place is to be supplicant to gods so they can never reach godhood sacrificing their own people, thats why every experiment with their own people failed and created freaks with fell god faces on their back.
>>730891673Yes, aside from the ONLY one that's there and happens to be tiny as fuck and almost devoid of lifeFor a game that somehow got inspired by BOTW for its open world, Memezaki sure as hell didn't look really hard into itHow about a game where friendly NPCs can move a few steps next?
>>730891847You never met the turtle pope or big boggart?
how reliable do you consider visual evidence compared to text?
Whatever. I'm going mad trying to work out the "lore." I'll just die never knowing. Thanks Miyazaki you fucking hack.
>>730891889Oh wow, 2 loners in the middle of bumfuck nowhere, I feel so immerserd in this huge medieval world thank you Miyazaki san!!!!
>>730891962You didn't find the blacksmith or nepheli?
>>730891805Is that what Lamenter is? He never made sense to me. I figured it was just an effect of the Fell God cursing hornsent.
>>730892017Yeah. The Lamenters laugh and cry simultaneously because they know the debased nature of their people is the thing holding them down. Comedic irony only the fool would understand.
>>730891993I didDid you find an actual village in the overworld with actual life and people going about their day?Bonus point if those people can use their legs to walk aroundYou can't? Heh, thought so.
>>730892139>Did you find an actual village in the overworld with actual life and people going about their day?There's a village in Liurnia full of jars tending to flowers. You'll eventually find an npc that moves there to be part of their community.
>>730892287>full of life>only 2/3 fucking NPCs in itNothing happens in that tiny ass village, they don't tend to shit, and they awkwardly stand in place for eternity like in any other SoulslopI rest my case.
>>730892468You'll get the full picture after you play the game. I don't want to spoil what happens because the npc has an item that fills in some lore that is better discovered first hand.
>>730892530I already did, FrompigAnd the village remains dead no matter whatWhat happens in a few lines of text on an item is irrelevant to the discussion, and the fact that this is in fact, not immersive in the slightest.
>>730892632The item is identical to other instances of it you find in the game. I won't spoil you on it you might like it when you discover it.
>>730892762I don't give a fuck, Frompig.
>>730892801lol Fromsoft are the gawds of vidya by a large margin, no amount of name calling and seething on your part will change this empirical concrete fact, you nigger.
>>730892801
>>730893124>No argumentIt's so easy to make a Frompig cry, lol
