Discuss.
>Everyone said Luigi was just a meme character and Zero to Deaths weren't a biggie.>Three Luigi mains won tournaments at the same time.How long until #BanLuigi happens
>>730892006What a toxic set of characters for the top 7
>>730892006not sure what the point of discussing a tier list that came out a year ago but here's a version with 4x the resolution
>>730892724they can't ban characters because the japs start crying and threaten to stop going to tournameents every time a ban discussion starts
>>730892205Aegis, Corrin, Inkling, F!Robin, Zelda, Ganondorf
>>730892006Is there a 2026 version of this?
>>730894176it's ranking season so i'm sure it's coming soonthey're doing the top 100 right now so i'd guess it comes afterthat list is from mid feb of last year
>>730892006>>730893358banjo and sora are such a waste of space my god
>>730892006bayo is considered good again?
>>730892006>KWABnondorf at the bottom againHow do you fix him?
>>730894490Except Sora is better than a good 2/3rds of the roster
>>730892006>like ice climbers, little mac and ganon>even in ultimate, ice climbers ai is still terrible, and mac and ganon are still the worst fucking characters in the game
Kirby being better than Marth is so weird.
And how many of these characters are actually viable to use in competitive play?
>>730894768being a high tier does not equal being a good character in smash. sora in smash was a fucking mistake
>>730895021What's your definition of viable
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fn1SW1a8OSU>competitive ultimate is so stale that isabelle moving from C- to B- is considered significant enough for an overproduced youtube video
>>730892006What puts Toon Link above Young Link? They're close so I expect not much, but wasn't it assumed YL was the stronger one for a while?
>>730894631She got good buffs and Lima, Bloom4Eva and a japanese player (forgot his name) have been getting great results with her.
Discuss
>>730895476People really overrated Young Link at the beginning of Ultimate because he was fast, a fastfaller, and had an amazing projectile that confirmed into a lot of his other moves. There was this perception that he "played like a Melee character", which people thought would be an asset when Ultimate seemed faster than 4.In reality, his hitboxes are significantly worse than Toon Link's, he can't kill, and his projectile simply isn't that big of a threat. Being fast doesn't matter in a game with very limited offensive and movement mix-ups. Especially when everyone is just jumping and spamming safe aerials the majority of the time.
>>730895743I think it's interesting that Sagat is so unfun to play against that Japanese players, though they refuse to ban him, shame people for using him
>>730895116Every dlc was a mistake
>>730895743huh I always thought Bison/Dictator was seen as a good character.
>>730892724THEYEAROFLUIGI
>>730894729Give him Wizard's Dropkick from Smash 4
Its funny how during the early days of Ultimate, people were praising how fast paced and aggressive the game was and now the meta is pure stalling or zoning because one confirm equals 80% damage or death.
>>730892006
>>730892006Surprised to see Isabelle above Villager. Last time I looked at one of these, Villager was always far above her.
>>730894729Why fix him? It's way funnier this way.
>>730894490Sorry I misspelled Corrin and Byleth
>>730896034Should have been included in earlier iterations:>Hero>Banjo & KazooieDeserved:>Terry>Kazuya>Sora>SephirothUnderstandable, but lacks cultural impact:>Min Min>Pyra/MythraEgregious:>BylethMUGEN but shilling:>Joker (soulful choice would have been the original MT or SMT protagonists)
>>730895021The issue with characters being competitively viable in Ultimate is that even the top tiers are subject to incredibly volatile MUs, and who wins what is more often that not determined by which players are present. But if you were attending a hypothetical tournament where every competitive player is present, I'd say that>Steve>Sonic>Snake>G&WHave the highest chance of winning, with Snake being carried by Hurt>ROB>LuigiHave a respectable chance at winning, and>Aegis>Min-MinHave a slightly lower chance of winning, with Min-Min being carried by Doramigi. Or, to put it another way:>S+ and S can consistently win majors, with the exception of Aegis and Kazuya>S- can consistently top 8 at majors or win regionals and locals>A+ can occasionally top 8 majors, rarely win regionals, and occasionally win localswith the exception of Luigi, whom I guarantee will be considered an S tier character in 2026. And then the bottom of A+ tier is the cutoff where characters' rankings and results are basically carried by one player: Snow for Mario, Shadic for Corrin, Glutonny for Wario, Tilde for Falco, Ouch! for Wolf, BeastModePaul for Hero, Asimo for Ryu, Tarik for Greninja, etc. I'm leaving out more Japanese players because I'm not looking up their tags. If you are not literally the best player of a character in A tier or below, you are drowning in pools and only seeing top 8s at regionals and locals.But even S+ tier characters like Sonic and Snake have bad MUs, and people who play them have pocket counterpicks.
>>730896034Hero is the only based DLC character>>730892724Ultimate players are massive cucks and can't actually ban characters. They'll just cope and seethe about green Mario (forma de toque de muerte) for the next 2-3 years until Smash 6, like the cucks they are.
>>730896546People realized that Isabelle's versions of Villager's moves are basically all better. Why it took them this long, I don't know. I'm not a very good player but I realized it pretty early, along with G&W being broken. Who the fuck was using Villager's stupid little stick?
>>730895360You don't play nor do you watch competitive Smash.
>>730897078
>>730897149bee = competitive smash playerslightly right offscreen = unattended child
>>730896509>because one confirm equals 80% damage or deathi feel like this is only true for top tier characters, while everyone else is in the 2, maybe 3 hit combo cuckshed
>>730894389>it's ranking seasonI was curious, so I checked:>ranks 100 - 71 have been revealed>6 North Americans (including Riddles, who's retired)>1 Central American (Chag)>2 Europeans (Susu and Tarik)>21 Japanese playersIt's a fucking slaughter, the West is in shambles
>>730897149
>>730897651That's what happens when burgers suicide their tournament scenes.
>>730892724>>730896823Remind me, why do people seethe at Luigi again? t. someone who hasn't looked up the SSB competitive scene in a long while.
>>730896643at least they have actual movesets and aren't parts of other characters hacked together and made worse
>Mr. Game & Watch that high.I'm happy to see my silly stick man that high up. How hated is he by compfags?
>>730898072His up b is a war crime.
>>730893435Steve?
>>730897942He has a guaranteed touch of death combo off a down throw that any monkey can do. Besides that, he has godlike framedata and shits out a fuckton of damage because all his moves combo into each other and can confirm into a kill move.
>>730897942Just an incredibly fucking dishonest character on virtually every level>disjointed tether grab>that's faster than every other tether grab>and recovers faster than every other tether grab>and is a better burst option than every other tether grab>and spawns a falling projectile that staggers>dthrow is a combo throw that can confirm into a true zero-to-death combo at low %s and up B at medium %s>down B is a frame 1 invincible combo breaker and kill move, think Melee Luigi's nair on crack>uair sour spot is disgusting>bair sweet spot is disgusting>the rest of his moves aren't even worth mentioning because he's so carried by these five that they're effectively irrelevant>>730898072I think he's statistically the lamest character in the game, second only to Mii Gunner. Recency bias might make people hate Luigi more, however.
>>730898072I could never get into Ultimate G&W because of his fair change despite him being better. >>730898215His down/up smashes are utter horseshit too
>>730892006Why is Ike that low? I thought MkLeo used him in early tournaments.
>>730898220>try to ban Steve>big N says, "nuh-uh," threatens to shut down tournaments>try to balance Steve by banning one aspect of the character (crafting)>big N says, "nuh-uh">except now Steve players know that they can just run Nintendo anytime anyone tries to stop them for being frauds
>>730898573>earlyThere's your problem. He's a solved character.
all i remember was people claiming joker was broken then nobody else being able to get results with the character other than leo
>>730898573Ike was only good because of his nair, which was nerfed. Also, it was very early in the game's life and people didn't know how to play.
>>730898393>>730898473I remember people early on thinking his tether grab would be a downgrade/sidegrade since his grab was pretty fast to get started on his combos in Smash 4.
>>730898578>>try to balance Steve by banning one aspect of the character (crafting)This never happened. Whenever a tournament said "no crafting" they really meant "no Steve". They were trying to say it in a way so Nintendo wouldn't catch on, but obviously Nintendo's figured it out now.>>730898665Zackray also won tournaments with him.
>>730898072The hate is warranted. >Spam shield>Spam Up-B>Is the opponent in the air? Spam Up-Air>Is the opponent about to land? Down-Smash or Side Smash>Rinse and repeat.>>730898473>I think he's statistically the lamest character in the gameThis. Its so fucking depressing. I loved playing G&W in Melee, Brawl and 4 and finding out that he was top tier in Ultimate had me excited until I saw gameplay of him.
Who's been repping Snake so hard he got into top 3?
>>730898072 Whoops I summoned a Trampoline out of nowhere!
>>730899041Hurt, a top 3 Japanese player. Snake really has no other notable players. Hurt's obviously extremely good at the game, but his Snake is completely fucking degenerate.
I still believe the DLC and balance changes made Ultimate a worse game overall. Who the fuck balances a game based on dogshit online performance?
>>730892006>Outdated listThe top Japs have created a new list.
>>730899446And they never fixed Falcon.
>>730899571Marth Bottom 2?I know they fucked up his tipper and why play him when Lucina and Roy are better than him, but bottom 2?
>>730896784>GoodHeroBanjoMin MinStevePyra/Mythra>FineJokerSephiroth>Bad for a DLC characterByleth>BadSora>Fighting game characterTerryKazuya
>>730899571>Kazuya that highEither this is an unordered tier list, or it doesn't account for a character's ability to actually win anything. That said, I do agree even though there are some obvious outliers informed by Japanese players:>Captain FalconWay too fucking high>SoraHigh because of Japanese players>PitHigh because of Zackray>Ryu and KenSeem kind of low, but then again it seems like literally everyone has a win on AsimoPoor Marth
>>730899571>Luigi takes 9th placeDamn, the glow-up from prior Smash games is huge.
>>730900191True, and all it cost him is being one of the biggest faggots in the entire game, universally despised across every major continent. Well worth it.
>>730898220happened with steve.happened with brawl meta knight.happened with sm4sh bayo.
>>730892006I stopped caring about smash after realizing how obnoxious trying to play Peach was.
Do people still play Smash Ultimate?
>>730892006tiers irrelevant, play who you think is funfor me, it's simon
>>730899571The Queen of Smash, and lone female fighter in the top 10 herself.
>>730900623It's the only active platform fighter and smashfags cant drop the current game even if its total ass.Your other options are Melee (infested with turbo tryhards that play like miserable fucks, also ranked is paywalled) and Rivals 2 (heard mixed things about the game but it seems the playerbase is already going down), the test like Slap City, Nick Brawl 2 and the like are discord fighters and nobody likes those.
How can my nigga Sephiroth be played optimally.
>>730900623There are basically 3 groups of people still playing Ultimate>literal children>casual players and semi-competitive players coping and seething on Reddit>competitive players, especially in Japan
>>730892006>top 5 characters are also the most cancerous/unfun to fight againstGreat design
Ridley and K. Rool fags going through hell and back just for them to be a low tier shitters will never not be funny.
>>730893287Aegis is fair
>>730900931RoA2 is active as long as you live in North America, and there's slightly fewer players in Europe. Its lowest point was a month after a new character was added in October, but even then I was always able to find matches in ranked and casual quickly. There's no singleplayer content at the moment, so all 400 - 1,200 players it averages are playing multiplayer.That said, the game isn't going to really grow until 2027 at the earliest, for a few different reasons I won't detail. Until then, it's a small, but active playerbase.
>>730901704In no universe is that character fair.
>>730901698They were guaranteed to be heavies so it was always inevitable. Also you're conflating rosterfags with compfags when plenty of rosterfags barely play smash. The ones that do aren't going to care about tier list. They're going to be with assist trophies and smash balls on high.
>>730900931>"Rivals 2 is the best platform fighter to play right now, and there's no reason not to play it if you enjoy the genre." - Wise Sage PlupI mean, it's at EVO 2 years in a row.
>>730902087I don't know why Plup is the only player who can actually adapt to other platform fighters
>main Bowser and Ganondorf in Ultimate>Bowser fell way the fuck off with the DLC powercreep>Ganondorf, despite all of the cool additions, is STILL the literal worst character in the game
>>730901879Very clearly defined strengths and weaknesses. Only thig that's sketchy is mythra's foresight>>730901698Don't care, Ridley is fun and not bottom of the barrel and that's all that matters. Meta ridley skin was a nice bonus
>>730892006>tfw spent 1000+ hours trying to make Banjo workI continue to be vindicated as this game ages. I used to be spat upon for insisting that Banjo was far from upper mid tier. But now, people finally understand that this character takes way too much effort just to cap out at mediocre. You're better off playing a bad character that's at least easy to use efficiently.I'll never get the time spent learning breegull cancels back lmao. I don't even like Ult that much. I was just excited to see Banjo again.
>>730902620I think Banjo got overly-balanced solely because the balance team thought wonderwing or blaster ladders may have been too powerful.No reason his down throw should be so weak for a bury, or his up air to do so liytle damage, specially when 90% of the cast gets 40% off a grab combo.
>>730892006>Main dedede incin and rob>Do marginally better with dedede than robTiers r 4 queers
>>730903012>I play better with a simplistic character because the technical one takes more practice therefore the tiers don't matterRetard
>>730892006I was happy for all the Sorabros that gut their character that many said was impossible because of the Mouse, I do wish they gave him a but more, but I like Sora well enough. But I will never stop being pissed at this
>>730903064The gordo mindgames are beyond any technicality you could spin up with rob's downB
>>730903181DOOMguy was never getting in. Take your consolation prize.
>>730902620Egg and grenade spam is just not fun at all to fight against, up there with shit like Samus or Duck Hunt.
>>730903348But I don't like playing Mii Gunner anon..
Ultimate’s release was the last time a game release felt significant. Maybe doom eternal.
I was actually shocked we never got Eggman, when they were doing those Heroes vs Villains trailers, I thought he was a guaranteed pick.
>>730903621Elden Ring
>>730893358>>730899571>Ryu over TerryHonestly pretty surprised
>>730904218Shakunetsu is a fucking degenerate projectile
>>730903509Consider the following: if Doomguy got in today he'd be a swordfighter with a counter, thanks to DOOM Eternal and The Dark Ages
>>730904340>campy, defensive meta>shield-deleting projectile that forces people to roll or jump against the funny auto-turnaround characterIt just works
>>730900691I want her delicious Ramen Noodles~ ^_^Breakfast LunchDinner
>the most boring characters to watch are also the top tiers
>>730904218On paper it feels like Terry basically had everything to be a solid character, not too overwhelming but still clearly above-average in most ways, but somehow Riddles is like the only Terryfag that got results
Olimar is such a weird character since sm4sh everyone says he is top tier and yet you will never see anyone playing him
>>730901516>>730904867Okay, what characters would you have be top 5, tough guy
>>730892006What makes the Belmonts THAT bad? I get being slow is rough for them but their zoning is that trash?
>>730897864wasnt it just one single bald retard faggot too afraid to lose "control" of what he thought was his own vanity project?
how in the fuck is ROY the highest-tiered FE character??
>>730896509Casuals and content farmers are going to drop Ultimate like a rancid shit when the next game comes out, the game is full of unfun bullshit and bad design decisions that everyone is only pretending to like so they can feel less insecure about not playing Melee. A tale as old as time.
>>730897260
>>730905272He's a braindead rushed down swordsman with an equally braindead confirm.
>>730901698K Rool is amazing online and against normies
>>730904982I dont know about ultimate, but in Project + the best character are Lucario, Mewtwo and Meta Knight, wich are also the most fun to watch, I bet they did it on purpose.
>>730900623I haven’t played since>2023Yeah that’s how dead and uninteresting Ultimate became to me, hell I have more hours put into Smash 4 than Ultimate, now that I’m checking my playtime stats
>>730905170Shitty, predictable recovery. Having a garbage recovery is basically a death sentence, since everyone since fucking Brawl has been getting recoveries that let you come back from the fucking blast zone.
>>730905541Admittedly, it was a trick question, the baseline mechanics of Ultimate can only produce lame results.
>>730892006this is bad game design
>>730905608The Switch has become my go-to shitting console, and on the rare occasions I boot up Smash instead of Animal Crossing or some bite-size puzzle game, I never get further than the CSS because the input lag is so bad. I have a similar number of hours and my playtime just fell off a cliff after I took a break from the game long enough to feel the input delay when I came back.
I stopped caring about Smash the moment they added Steve. Seeing him be tippity top tier fucking hurts. I hope he doesn't come back next game
>>730905608How did they flop the online this fucking badSmash 4 had the perfect lobby system, it was a blast even here to make retarded ass lobbies with shitloads of people, and then there came ultimate with 4glory 4fun and the stupid ass lobby system that is a single match at once and 6 cuck chairs holy shit how numbingly dumb The only redeeming part is how you could see someone's character before starting the game, so you could back out of it and kick that nigger out if he paid for DLC
>>730905724Incineroar is fun to watch, but it would probably be very annoying if he was good. I also like Ryu/Ken.
>>730897651That's because all the North Americans are in the top 50
>>730894907It's not that Kirby is better, it's that Kirby has more results because every single Marth player switched to Lucina or Aegis.How do you properly rank a character nobody plays?
>>730905948The only thing holding him back is his abysmal movement speed, everything else is mint save his recoveryDont get me started how fucking great it is to have an airborne grab holy shit
>>730905915It's insane to me that Sakurai and his dev team of all people decided it was a good fucking idea to force casual and more competitive oriented players into one matchmaking system. GSP hurts casual players more than anyone because nobody wants something like a free for all or item based game mode to be attached to some kind of rank that affects who you match with. On top of that, they had to make arenas utterly dogshit and lack basic features like being able to do couch play + online in your own arena. Ultimate is just a heaping pile of garbage that just caters to rosterniggers.
>>730893287You're too slow you're too slow y
>>730899571Rockmen he's getting his due.
>>730892006>steve>sonic>snakeIt really is S tier lol
>>730905272Gorilla character that can mash buttons and get away with it (also do crazy damage), not only that, he can kill super early too, he's pretty fast too and has good aerial drift so he can be on your face and his gimmick benefits from it.He also can geniunely put massive pressure on you just by mashing jab.>>730905608People would babble all the time that Ultimate is this well balanced game but I bet the moment Smash 6 comes out every single smash player will bitch and trash talk about Ultimate being an unbalanced unfun piece of shit.Same shit happened with Smash 4.
>>730892006Discuss.
>>730892006I found it funny they bullied some sassy nigger early on Ultimate's life because he predicted Snake would be S tier just like he was in Brawl.Who would've thought a character with frame 1 granade to escape out of combos and a million hitboxes would be S tier?Also DLC is cancer, like always, ever since Joker, cancer pick, and cancer to play against with his auto combo shit.>>730896034>>730896939Banjo is mostly alright, he looks great, and albeit his moveset is kinda off, he is fun to fight against, and egg combos are hard to perform which makes him a skillfull middle tier to play.Terry in theory should be a drag to play against, but his meter being risky plus a non-free recovery makes him fun.Sephiroth and Steve in theory should be fun, but they ended up as the biggest drags to face, specially fucking Steve.
>>730903181You’re not the only one, remember the whole Dante/Byleth debacle yeah I don’t want to remember that either, the Mii Costume is cool
>>730892006i thought meta knight was supposed to be the most broken smash character
>>730896823>>730895153My definition of viable would be "make top 8's with some regularity" Based on >>730896823 it sounds like the cutoff for that would be A+?
>>730905849F-Zero 99 is going to beat out Smash Ultimate at the rate I’m going
>>730892006>Samus A tier>Above ZSShuh?
>>730905915Ultimate removed the online tournaments that you could start up from the menu, which was in Smash 4. The game is dead as fuck on this site because you have wait whenever you lose.
>>730905379Even the items in Ultimate are annoying, obnoxious and OP
>>730907294Assist trophies and Pokeballs went from stage hazards you could summon to boss characters that take stocks on your behalf.
Literally how do Ult players do it when they have to deal with that online? As a fighting game guy I don't play smash competitively but if I did I would pick Melee for no other reason then slippi. I remember Ult online at release and it was abysmal.
>>730905915Smash 4 Online was the good shitYou never know what you got until it’s gone…
>>730906758Why is slowking good?
>>730907138From my tourney experience playing against Samus is fucking painful>Fair is giant as shit and disjointed, pretty sure it autocancels out of a rising short hop too>Actually cracked mobility, Dash Attack is crazy burst for a zoner (I swear that every shoulder tackle DA is insane in some regard) and good luck trying to juggle her/catch her landings in the slightest when Bomb lets her start jittering all over the place>Get caught holding the ledge, now you're playing a demonic game against Bomb and Charge Shot, the latter of which is going to BTFO your ledge invincibility runs out>Concept of Charge Shot in general forces sweaty games because the charge alone is a win-conGod help you if she's just standing under a platform too, your options for getting in get so narrowed down that you really start to realize how much platforms just straight up work against you in this game
>>730895021All the S and A tiers are highly viable and I believe they have all won tournaments.The B tiers are technically viable and they can win some smaller tournaments or even make top 32 or something at a major tournament. But you probably won't win a lot of high tier tournaments playing these characters. They're pushing it. I don't believe any of these characters have won a major tournament.C tier and down are honestly still somewhat viable online and in local tournaments and stuff, but will/have never won a major.
>>730904812She's so hot...
>>730907484>Regenerator>Poison type (immune to Poison/Toxic, absorbs Toxic Spikes on switch in)>Tanks even Super Effective hits with its Assault Vest set and can still heal by just switching out>Future Sight lets it put pressure on teams even if it switches out the turn after>Chilly Reception gives it a slow pivot move that allows it to bring in a squishy game-ending threat like Ogerpon, Iron Valiant, or DarkraiIts only real weaknesses are the 2 most used Pokemon in the tier and Landorus-T, but other than that it's practically perfect.
>>730892006Lucina and Marth should switch tiers.
>>730907543>Devs finally give you the ability to control your shield tilt by holding 2 shield buttons>Could have been easily been used for making shield dropping more accessible>Lol let's just scrap shield dropping and make platform movement even more trash
>>730907627>I don't believe any of these characters have won a major tournament.Peabnut won with Mega Man.>but will/have never won a major.Sparg0 won with Plant.
>>730907764Fug wrong pic
The ultimate comp community murdered this game. Stop bitching about zoning if you only want to play on the fucking gigantic map, fucking retarded autists you should be able to put two and two together here.
brawl roster was the best nu smash is just bloated, boring and soullesslook at all those wasted slots...
>>730906106Nah, Marth has a bad case of "in a vacuum syndrome" in a game with 7 frames of input delay. His strength, range, is actually worse than probably half the damn cast. He's just bad because of his inconsistency and inability to force any other character to actually play his game. >>730895360She is mostly better than villager with a hammered out meta, but counter-meta hasn't been properly developed. I love using her but she's trash because some characters 100% invalidate her fair/bair, outrange / outcamp her, etc. This "hype" is sort of similar to Incin in singles last year or the year before. Turns out people just didn't understand the MU and he's trash (in singles).
Sakurai, though out every patch, never once decided to nerf G&W's up-b.
>>730907484Regenerator is extremely good, that's why. Same reason why fucking Alomomola is in there too.
>>730908000>>730907484>>730907762The Slow- Pokemon are in every single tier and are among the best Pokemon in every single tier. The higher tiers take the more optimized Slow- Pokemon, but every tier has one.
>>730907849>Stop bitching about zoning if you only want to play on the fucking gigantic mapI dunno about anyone else but Ult is the first Smash game where I hate playing against zoners and it's literally just because they changed the perfect shield (tap shield) to that weird not-parry (release shield) and it feels so ass, because I'm positive the old system is why so many zoners have godlike CQC options
>>730908207It's actually worse than that. Post-Melee, there are other factors which make zoners a lot worse. No momentum means chasedown is more difficult. B reverses means characters can instantly 100% change direction in the air with a single frame. Input delay makes rolls better. Spotdodges can be canceled into moves, making them safer. You can buffer things like airdodges into rolls or spotdodges. It makes punishing passive play threading a needle and the risk/reward isn't that great with a lot of the cast.
>>730907762>>730908000>>730908096Based, I love the slow niggas
>>730905170Best OoS option is frame 6, without a good OoS option you're fucked in this game. Spamming projectiles and aerials is way too safe with how nerfed the shields are.
>>730907969I think the roster needs to be smaller. They can focus more on keeping balanced characters without standout ones. I think in the next one, however, considering how Sakurai treated Kirby Air Riders, we're not going to see lengthy dev cycles post-launch where they constantly rebalance or inflate the roster.
>>730896509I praised it because sakurai killed the cancerous down throw -> up a -> up a shit that was literally all of smash 4, but unfortunately he just replaced it with "shield -> up b -> up a -> up a" instead.
>>730906052Who
>>730907460is it cringe to say i miss this
>>730909653Taco-benders and Burgerclaps.
>>730906540>People would babble all the time that Ultimate is this well balanced game but I bet the moment Smash 6 comes out every single smash player will bitch and trash talk about Ultimate being an unbalanced unfun piece of shit.This is absolutely, 1,000% happening. I listen to Smash podcasts while I'm doing cardio and those fuckers are foaming at the mouth to rip into Ultimate the second that a new game is announced.
>>730908207>Perfect Shield a strong projectile>You're stuck in a ton of lag while they can still freely moveKafkaesque
>>730907805Mega Man is underrated, his tier placement doesn't represent how good he is. He's basically the same shit as the top tiers, just slightly worse.
>>730909993holy fuck this drives me up the wall
>>730908829True. The mechanics of Ultimate are just conducive to absolute cancer and there's just no way around it.
>>730907969The Ultimate patch philosophy was weird as fuck. I think they did consult competitive results to an extent, but only to the extent that they would reasonably affect casual play. So stuff like Ike's nair or Pichu's entire kit were nerfed, whereas things like DK's cargo uthrow platform kill confirms or Luigi's touch-of-death combos weren't touched, because they assumed that they wouldn't affect casual players. Hopefully this makes sense.
>>730907138Samus is a really stupid character:>great aerials, specially fair and nair>great grab game>solid combo game thanks to her throws, missiles, bombs and non-charged shots>great kill moves all around>bombs are retarded>great pressure at the ledge >can put a lot of pressure on you with her projectiles, dash attack or grab>upb is great for an OoS move and can kill>can be played either as a spammy zoner or an unga rushdown character>rather easy to use and can be fun even if fighting her is a pain in the balls Meanwhile ZSS:>has trouble killing outside upb combos, nair into down b or side-b>super light>inconsistent hit-boxes and combo game>nerfed grab outside upthrow being able to kill around 170% and i guess back throw into down b (which isnt real), down throw didnt deserve that>her best tools (nair and upb) got nerfed>hard to use overall and her gameplay isn't even that fun to play as or against.I miss Smash4 ZSS when she was Bimbo Falcon.
>>730896034Hero is beyond based.Sephiroth is cool and fun to play.Steve would be fun if he didn't have insanely high damage and if he couldn't build in the air. Breaking his crafting table should make it stay away for like a minute or two as well, not for only 5-10 seconds.
>>730910814They tried to remove Luigi's ToD, though. Players just found a new way to do it.
ZA WARUDO!https://youtu.be/CgI07JOOu1Y?si=asUPiTujiLvLqnM0
>>730894824At least Ganon has a niche in Spirit Battle cheesing, not that that matters after, let me check my notes, about 7 years and i doubt anyone is still doing those and it is Single Player content.
Does Marth have the worst advantage state in Smash Ultimate? Why is he so low down?
the most honest and balanced characters.
>>730912098Sephiroth takes too much work to use. Cloud seems way better.
>>730907627>>730895021>>730895153>>730896823>>730907000>only 1/6th of the roster is viableI'd rather play the Nintendo fighting game that's actually balanced and all but 2-3 characters has a presence in high level playPlus almost every competitive Smash fan I know basically has stockholms syndrome and constantly complains about the game
if it were a fun tier list and not a competitive one, it'd be flipped upside down
>>730906758Zamazenta deserves the powertrip of being good after the Second Version humiliation ritual that was its debut gen, i think it probably gonna lose Body Press next gen anyway and it was just given it because EVERYONE knows it should have had it last Gen.
>>730912030He has to play too precise.
>>730912098>landing offstage side b spike with wolf
Pichu is the only fun character to play as.
>>730912098Seph is absolutely not and you only think that because he isn't very good. I (mostly) agree with your other picks as they are great characters who don't cross the line into absurdity, though even post-nerf Palu just fishing for nair chains is bad design. The game is so gimmicky that characters without bullshit lame play are extremely rare.
