This character added nothing to the story.
>>730908858well he's an optional character for a reason
>optional character is optional
Thanks to Vincent you know Sephiroth is a triple retard, since he's not an ancient, not "created", and his mother isn't even Jenova.
>>730908858yeah but he looks cool
>>730908858But that's not true, that's Yuffie if you really have to say it
>>730908858>characters abolity is transform>transforms into something inferioralmost every game that does this commits this sin. the transfomation never scales. why are devs so damn stupid
>>730909017Yuffie was optional too, but much more important. She gave meaning to the whole Wutai region.
>>730908858He's cool as fuck and could rape your mother and sister and they would beg for more.
>>730909185At least Yuffie was a decent party member also being ranged and having a good multi-hit limit break. All Vincent has is Sniper CR + D.Blow and the ability to underflow the damage counter with Death Penalty and a massive grind.
>H-He's Sephiroth's step-dad. That's not meaningless!
>>730909425Pretty ironic to say this about fucking Vincent of all characters lol
>>730909554I'm being post-ironic.
>>730909554>He doesn't know about the 2000s obsession girls had with Vincent
>>730908858Bro's cool tho. Rule of cool > Adding to the story in a jrpg
>>730908858Technically, he does add something to the story. And he's completely optional too.
>>730908858Vincent was so fucking cool. I had him in my party all the time but he was also so shit.
>>730908858>Edgy Red caped gunmanThis alone makes him the most meaningful addition to the party
>>730909073>Thanks to Vincent you know Sephiroth is a triple retard, since he's not an ancient, not "created", and his mother isn't even Jenova.Because the story had mostly been worked out and that Seph is the bad guy and he's up to something spooky, but details were actually written as they went. This leads to Sephy being this weird retard who's wrong about everything and the story retcons itself several times about his motivations, goals, and beliefs. The story as of their outline was definitely "Sephy bad, he's a cloak guy, rival of Cloud, vanished after Nibelheim, Jenova's something er other". You can see the rushed elements of the writing. Zack was not written until 2/3 through the game, and one of the last major story elements added and he widly changes the context of many scenes and characters.
>>730910489Why do you people presume that if a character is wrong about a thing, that means the writing is at fault. Cloud and Sephiroth have a parallel with each other. Both believe they were special and it led to them doing stupid shit>Sephiroth>...I've always felt since I was small...>That I was different from the others. Special, in some way.>But... not like this...__________>Young Cloud>Tifa always used to be with this three-some.>Tifa>...That's right.>Young Cloud>I used to think... they were all stupid.>Tifa>What!?>Young Cloud>You were all childish, laughing at every little stupid thing.>Tifa>But we were children, back then.>Young Cloud>...I know. I'm the one that was stupid.>I really wanted to play with everyone, but I was never allowed into the group.>Then later... I began to think I was different...>That I was different from those immature kids.>That then... maybe...>Just maybe, they would invite me in.>I thought that might happen, so I hung around...>Young Cloud>I was so prejudiced. And... weak.Both Cloud and Sephiroth believe something that's not true. But where Cloud was able to accept that he's not special and that's fine, Sephiroth doubles down. Oh, Jenova wasn't a Cetra? Well he's still heir to the Planet because he's greater than the Cetra. >Sephiroth>...Ah, but I have.>I'm far superior to the Ancients.>I became a traveler of the Lifestream and gained the knowledge and wisdom of the Ancients.>I also gained the knowledge and wisdom of those after the extinction of the Ancients.>And soon, I will create the future.Why is that bad writing?
>>730908858he's a cuck
What would sex with Tifa feel like?
>>730911171Bad cause she's all muscley and shit.
>>730911221:(
He added aura
>>730908858He gave more context to Sephiroth, Hojo and Lucrecia.
>>730908858He's the second coolest character in the franchise.
>>730910489>retcons>Zack was not written until 2/3 through the gameYou realize that this is a complete work, and not a serialized one, right?
>>730910941I think he's referring more to Cloud's flashback with Sephiroth, and Tifa who was also present just never corrects or questions him about Zack because Zack did not exist yet in the games development.
>>730910941>uh, it's actually perfect writing and it was all planned from the start!I know that dev times are tight, and they wrote and re-wrote things as they went. The first draft has JENOVA being a special psychic power you can unlock in your mind. seph in one early draft was to be Aerith's brother, and also an ancient. They always planned Cloud and Seph to have some kind of connection, and that the Nibelheim incident hid something major, but didn't know WHAT until late in development. One idea is that Cloud is a ghost of a real person, as he's actually Sephiroth's "shadow" created when Seph died. This was before Zack was made.The idea of the protagonist being a shadow or memory of a real person is re-used in FFX. So I know that FF7 seems to have gone massive re-writes as they went, and in the end the result is a bit messy for certain aspects, such as Sephiroth, the Ancients and his backstory. I know from how to ideally present a story to an audience, you don't give them contradictory information unless you have to. Seph's motivations and backstory are told in contradictory ways, and the correction might be a single line or two. I have no idea why they didn't stick with one background, and run with that. It's super awkward to have the villain give his villain motivation speech, then go "whoops, actually that's wrong. his REAL motivations are..." several times.Seph is also a ghost in the story. He barely does anything outside of the two Nibelheim flashbacks, and he stops talking after Disc 2. No villain speech at all for the entirety of Disc 3. When you re-play you are shocked how little he is in the game.
>>730910384based
>>730911264Yeah they don't tell you that at dommy mommy orientation.
>>730911480>>730911480>I think he's referring more to Cloud's flashback with Sephiroth, and Tifa who was also present just never corrects or questions him about Zack because Zack did not exist yet in the games development.If I remember right, there was always a plan for Cloud's recollection of events to be wrong, and there to be some kind of twist. The Ghost-Shadow idea got so far along that several lines of dialogue still reference it and were never taken out of the game. Sephiroth's dialogue in the northern crater messing with Cloud seems to be written from this standpoint, trying to show that Cloud isn't even real to begin with. I think the original idea might be that the real Cloud actually died at Nibelheim, and somehow his memory/soul imprinted on -something- and created the messed up dude we see now. Zack is a neater and simpler explanation without yet MORE magical gooblegook. They tried the same twist in FF8 and it's seriously half-baked.
>>730911480Except Tifa's refusal to speak up also comes up several times too. For example: >Tifa>Actually, it's been seven years.>You got your wish and joined SOLDIER, quit after the Sephiroth incident, and now you're a mercenary...>You told me a lot about what happened after you left Nibelheim...>But...>...Something's wrong. I felt there was something strange about the things you talked about.>All the things you didn't know that you should, And other things you shouldn't know that you did...>I wanted to make sure...>But then I heard... you were going far away...>And I didn't want that...>...I didn't know what to do. So, I thought I needed more time.>And that's why I told you about the AVALANCHE job. I wanted to be with you, watch you.And this would be corroborated with scenes like this with Tifa actively lying to Cloud about not knowing who Zack is. This isn't an oversight. This is a character decision. One that she acknowledges later>Tifa>No, Cloud.>I've been hiding it for some time, afraid that if I told you... something terrible might happen.>But, I'm not going to hide anything anymore.>Tifa>You weren't here. Cloud did not come to Nibelheim five years ago.
>>730911597So if I'm understanding your point correctly, the only valid vision is the first draft and rewrites or reshuffling of events don't count?
>>730911445They wrote the game as they went since there's so much and there were many people writing various scenarios and scenes and the game is so long you can't just write it in a single setting. Nojima is credited as the main writer, and he was head writer but most of the actual in-game story and events are various event writers, including the director Kitase himself who contributed to many. Very late in development Nojima created Zack as a solution to the game's plot and its' a rather elegant solution. He asked others to revise segments to allude to Zack to be placed throughout the game. >>730911921Nah, because there is no "first draft". They had ideas, they re-wrote them, then re-wrote them some more, expanded this or that. If you go entirely by first ideas then Jenova wouldn't be an entity from space and instead some kind of power you unlock. This idea is revived in Parasite Eve, which despite being adapted officially from a novel, rehashes MANy of the unused FF7 ideas. (Initially: Cloud is a detective in New York City. Aya becomes Cloud in a genderswap). Tifa doesn't exist in the earliest draft, only Aerith. They decide to kill Aerith, so they make a new love interest. etc That's how the game was written. They find a solution to a problem, then add it back. I think originally they were gonna do a Cecil-Rosa dynamic until they decided to kill Tifa. A FF7 without Tifa seems insane but she was still added in pretty early in development. The byproduct of this is that the story can seem messy at times since they simply did not have an extra 6-12 months to re-work all the story and dialogue to make it coherent. Vincent and Yuffie were characters initially on the chopping block, and had a bunch of ideas. One staff member just liked Yuffie so he petitioned for her, and wrote her scenes, and they added them as optional characters. The creation process is just MESSy and the result can mean messy story telling. You just roll with that if you like FF7.
>>730911731I slept in that day.
FF7 is vibes based
>>730912247What does this mean in Aryan.
>>730911863Stop pretending like you know anything about the story if you haven't read the original Japanese script.
FF7s development was likely very similar to FF6s, where before anything more than the basic concept of the setting and plot was fleshed out, individual character writers were were designing the cast members and fleshing out character histories and motivations, which then had to be tied back in to the actual main plot at a later date once that part was written.
>>730912247As an unc I have to say you are indeed spittin'
>>730912308The story of FF7 was procedurally generated
>>730912640Ah okay.
>>730912481Yeah, it's wild to me that Tifa does not exist initially in the draft when Tifa ends up being arguably the most important character in the story. The story ends up being this big loop where the water tower promise is THE single most important event in the story that binds everything together. When the story first starts, you think Cloud coming back to Midgar is all the payoff the water tower scene is going to result in. He promsied to protect her, she needs help, they go off to be eco-terrorists. Then you are led to believe the Nibelheim incident is the most important single event in the story that set everything in motion, but then the near end-game twist is that Cloud fufilled his promise to her by coming back to Nibelheim and fighting and defeating Sephiroth. Tifa becomes Cloud's personal therapist-lover-mother and totally displaces Aerith. Imagine being the designated love interest and cucked out of your own story?I don't think a single other FF game does this kind of storytelling where you begin with something and loop back to it and it ties everything together.
>>730912324
>>730912717They're kids, Anon. Don't let it get to you.
>>730908858I have to assume they were originally going to use him to go more into how and why Shinra was making monsters in their Mako reactors. He was originally written as an occult investigator that Got Too Close To The Truth and became Hojo's experiment. And his story would involve him not knowing that he'd been mutated at first and having to piece together what had been done to him over time. But that all got cut down into what he is now, and the whole monster production doesn't come up after the Nibelheim flashback. Granted, that stuff wasn't important and you could write it off as more of Hojo's wacky Jenova experiments anyway. So either way I don't think Vincent would have been that important.
>>730908858>obligatory edgelord character
>>730913136Well they are silly and stupid and should be better.
>>730913167>I have to assume they were originally going to use him to go more into how and why Shinra was making monsters in their Mako reactors.Oh they have an entire army of monsters, and the attack on the bird reactor is the only time we really see them put to use. Other times they just hang around Shinra shit and guard things. But sometimes they escape so WHOOPS and they just run around. these are some of the random enemies you face.You could go through the enitre game and classify the enemies as escaped Mako creatures by Shinra, naturally occuring animals, mythical creatures etc.The game's story and battles are pretty separated, since apparently there's intelligent humanoid race of non-human nymphs that just kinda exist?
If you didn't recruit Vincent you would never find out Cid was gay.
I like to think she was at least conscious enough to see or hear Cloud here. That combined with Cloud perfectly describing what happened led her to believe the truth too. I hate how early they're calling each other liars in Rebirth.
>>730915284Remakequels have no sense of pacing. I'm also 100% of the mindset that Square is bogged down in "AAA" mindset to see how a proper remake would work. No Open world overworld that eats up millions of your budget and years of dev time. Handle the game just like the original: each town or dungeon is its own cell, connected with a 3D "world map". If you trim down the budget, they could probably fit all the game's story into a single game and fix all the pacing issues.
>>730908858>>730909536He’s Sephiroth’s half brother
>>730909490>Character A has skills = good>Character B has skills = bad
>>730908858He started the events of FFVII. Without him Sephiroth would be a good boy with 2 loving parents.
>>730910489The writers determine everything. Doesnt matter if you dislike it. That's the story. Cope with it, or keep crying.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L4_zFYnnn2Y
