In every soulslike, the vast majority of players just spend 90% of their playthrough using the same weapon and spamming the same 3 attacks, thanks to limited upgrade mats and playing cautiously over the difficulty.How would one fix this objectively huge flaw?
>>730997480You don't. You play other games, or make your own. Elden Ring is the highest grossing From Software game, and the highest grossing Bamco product (from the CEO of Bamco). They have no reason to change anything. Hope this helps, OP.
rollslop just sucks
>>730997480>How would one fix this objectively huge flaw?Start mass killing goycattle with no inner monologue.
>>730997523>it's successful so it's perfect
Removing rune costs on upgraded weapons.
put a timer on the upgrade process like in king's field 4 where the blacksmith takes your weapon away for like 20 minutes so youre forced to use something else.
>>730997480I used the same scimitars throughout my entire playthrough.
>>730997586Here's my parting post to you: I didn't say Elden Ring was perfect. I said, you don't worry about fixing Elden Ring. Neither you, nor I am in a position to fix Elden Ring. Elden Ring, and its dlc, have come and gone. From Software and Bamco have made their money - all the people involved in the making of ER and SOTE got paid. If you care about Elden Ring's combat's flaws, make your own game where those flaws are not present, or play a different game where those flaws are not present. Hope this helps, 730997586
>>730997787Obviously you can't fix Elden ring, it's a lost cause. It's just an example of the problem
What other slow paced 3rd person action RPG games have players use more than 3 attacks?Is there a point to using more than the 3 same attacks?Why? What for? What's your objective?
>>730997480flaw? i will find a weapon i like that fits the style i intend and then use it. next time i'll use something else. every weapon in the game is a potential replay for me, if you force me to switch, e.g. nu zelda style, i won't play it.
>>730997956None of them, because they all blindly follow Fromsofts formula as if it could never be improved upon
>>730997480You want to be forced to change your build all the time? That's silly.What you people fail to realize is that Elden Ring is a multiplayer game, you're supposed to be seeing other players using different setups to crush bosses or kill you in pvp and go "oohh I wanna try that". If you're playing it offline/singleplayer you're missing out.
i would decouple weapons from upgrades, so you would level your slots. This would also allow armor/ring upgrades with different mats. Lets say you upgrade ring slot to max and now every ring has another passive ie. Shit like that could be fun and allow for absolute retarded end game builds
>>730998154Why didn't you reply to the other questions, then?And so, why are you complaining about it?If nobody else does it, why is it a problem? how do you know it's a problem?Because people aren't playing the game you want them to play it? But there are more than three attack types per weapons, so you are free to use more than those three and you're free to swap weapons, yet the problem lies in other people not wanting to?Do you mind doing a quick autismo test for me, just to be sure, I need to know exactly how far down the spectrum you are
>>730997859>If thing bad, make your own thing where thing good.You either do this, a video essay that gets a gorillion views or do nothing at all
>>730998257Based unlocking passives enjoyer
>>730998328lol what the fuck is thiswhat a defensive little fanboyDoing the same 3 attacks for 40 hours of a 50 hour game when the game has 100 weapons is not a good thing, it's incredibly unoptimized
>>730997480Use Nioh's weapon class and skill system to an extent. Decouple gameplay expression style upgrades from the weapon itself.
>>730997480>find the uchigatana>it does tons of bleed and poise damage>stop using it because I know I'm cheating not only the game but myself
It's unique skill is really good plus jump heavy attacks stagger everything,am at Miquella's Haligtree and am still using it despite having a massive collection of weapons,probably my easiest play throughout
>>730998404>still not replyingWhat are you trying to say here by 'unoptimized'?On what standard?Do you understand how human communication works? Unless you are to try to reach the same understanding of the words you're trying (and failing) to use that I possess, no discussion can be made, no interesting ones at leastBut you're of course clearly of browner skin than I am, so maybe communication is therefore not possible, but let's try againDo you have stats to back that up?Where did you learn that people only use a single weapon, and better yet, only use 'the same three attacks'?Why do you assume this?And now that we know you're just pulling a fake outrage because you believe it's cool to shit on popular thing #4521, and you in fact do not know what people use and how much they use it, we can discuss about the core problem, that you believe it's an issue for people to only want to use the same solution over and over again, yet said people do not find this a problem, only you do, so let's try to understand this part of your psyche and why you're being retarded
>>730997480Feels good being in the 10%
>>730998656>Unless you are to trygood morning saar
I'd not necessarily call it a flaw, but realistically you just fix it by removing the material requirement for upgrades and make it cost souls. what kind of smith needs a client to provide the raw materials? Early game your options are still limited due to the low amount of souls gained, mid game you have to work out if the weapon upgrade will give you more damage than the stat upgrades based on scaling and cost, and end game your options open up. if you can survive with lower stats you benefit early on from stronger weapons, rewarding skill, but if you make more damage come from scaling with less increases to base damage in the later upgrades (smiths can sharpen a blade all they like, if you can't swing it properly you're only going to cut so far) you mitigate the obvious issue of people just farming souls early to break the game if you balance the game around the idea of people wanting to farm a max weapon early
Remove weapon upgrades entirely. Literally what's the point of it except locking you into 1 or 2 weapons and making players averse to experimentation? Have a more substantial customisation system that does more than bigger damage number.
>>730997480>make upgrade materials more abundant>make it so you unlock better smithing tools that can be used on all weapons rather than better individual stones>remove weapon upgrading and focus solely on level ups for damageThere, three possible fixes. Suit yourself, Micheal Zaki
>>730998675>n-no stopAlways the same, anyone whining about elden ring always turns out to be a bitch of some sort
>>730998804this, elden ring is literally flawless
>>730998632i prefer the crescent moon axe, it has the same sexy heavy attacks but lets you put other weapon skills on it
Balder side sword... my beloved...
by not making the damn game open world, you spend tens of hours on that damn horse exploring a dead but pretty world just to find a "secret" cave thats poorly designed and has former enemy as boss that rewards you with something you are clearly not going to ever use since you already decided on your build long ago
>>730998712The point is exactly that, to lock you into using a few weapons, that's what a build is. They're supposed to require some time investment to get up and running forcing you to think and theorycraft before you invest. If you could just switch to anything at any time then the whole point of character builds would be gone.It's bad enough that the game lets you do that at endgame, Fromsoft has become too nice.
>>730998656I don't need to respond to your retarded interrogation, everyone else understands it's a flaw inherently. Which is why you're the only one pearl clutching and attacking strawmen over this great injustice of someone pointing out a flaw in your favorite game (which you are clearly very insecure about)
>>730999017>I-IT'S A FLAW>why>I'M NOT TELLING YOU, I JUST KNOW BETTERShow hand, niggerboy
>>730999109go ask most everyone else ITT why they provided a solution instead of freaking out at the question being asked
>>730997480How about (You) use a different weapon when (You) play it?
>>730999184I never played it and never will
>>730999184I do but I can only effectively use like 2 per playthrough because of upgrade mats
>>730997480Wuchang actually fixed this
>>730999260You don't know about the bells? You can purchase an infinite supply of upgrade materials at the hub vendor
>>730998185oh haha i fancy this greatsword *grinds upgrade materials for eight hours*
>>730999498>>730999260Nigga stop spamming the same bait from the OP, everyone who played the game knows you can buy upgrade materials
>>730999498First RPG?
>>730997480Go play Severance:Blade of Darkness, Die by the Sword, Rune and Enclave. You will be changing weapons in those games.>b-but i've never heard of those gamesThat's cus you're a zoomer.
>>730999408>>730999534you still have to find the bells or whatever the fuck they are called in the open world and you still can only max 13/+8 with DLC/ weapons out in a single NG cycleand you still need a lot of runes in order to purchase the upgrades so you still have to grind>>730999540of fromshitware? no, but definitely the last one
>>730999685>bells or whatever the fuck they are calledSo you never played the game and are just going off anon incorrectly calling them bells
>>730999109>>whyBecause the result is fucking boring. The combat could be way better if it wasn't mostly just poke and roll with the same weapon all game. >b-but *I* don't play it that way, I make my own fun!I don't care, go watch any youtube video and see how long the guy is holding the same sword as you skip throughElden Ring is even worse than most other soulslikes about it, because of jump attacks trumping everything else in terms of efficiency. Lots of people just play like "dodge dodge dodge jump-attack repeat"
>>730997480Use the clash artifacts of chaos system but make it a little deeper with a modifier to access another 3 specials, maybe when you switch style.
>>730997480My problem with every single souls game is that you'll use a weapon, get it to +11 or whatever, a new weapon drops and you won't know if it's statistically better until you commit to upgrading it to at least as much as your old one
>>730999769Yeah that's true. It helped me personally to just use whichever weapon has the moveset I like most, and if it turns out it does 3% less damage than another weapon of the same type, I just don't care
>>730999728>Because the result is fucking boring.So, you spend your time watching random people play the game on youtube, and you get mad at them using a weapon instead of something else?You're complaining about how other people play the game, not even a competitive multiplayer game mind you, just other random people you can't interact with, and they're using something they want to use and they don't have a problem with it, but you do, even tho you, yourself, can do something else and use other weapons and change weapons just fine, but that's not enough, no, everyone else must play a certain way because that doesn't fit your visionDo you realize how fucking retarded you sound? Are you even capable of understanding this much?
>>730999709slit your throat
>>730999321being able to respec any time was so fucking retardedi delibteteytyry didnt use it because it would mean i built my character that way for no reason u gotta commit to these kinds of things and the dev is full haram if he gives u respec option
>>730997480You don't because by design souls games don't encourage gameplay experimentation. Monster Hunter games (before world) did that
>>730998889>crescent moon axeusing that in my current run. absolutely love it
>>730999905>every game has to play like my Fromsoftware games!
>>730999905>delibteteytyry
>>730997480>thanks to limited upgrade mats and playing cautiously over the difficultyIt's not the reason why, it's because 90% of the weapons aren't better than tutorial twig you found in the swamp. I don't mind going out of my way and spending an hour farming for some mats if the weapon is worthwhile.
>>730999905how are you supposed to know if you didn't go full retard by leveling up X instead of Y? people who seethe at respecs are mentally retarded sissies that either use online builds or level up hp, stamina and strength in every game they play
next playthrough i'm going prisoner and will never unequip the mask, and i will spec only strength/endurance and nothing else and I will use heavy daggers.
>>730999879>YOU'RE NOT ALLOWED TO CRITICIZE THIS GAME! WHY ARE YOU DOING IT HUH HUH HUH??? DO YOU HAVE ANY IDEA HOW RETARDED YOU ARE FOR CRITICIZING IT? LET PEOPLE PLAY HOW THEY WANT (THAT MEANS NO CRITICISM)holy kek
>>730999813Yeah I mean sometimes it's obvious that the dropped "Black Long Sword of Semite Genocide" is better than "Longsword" but if it's like a pole arm vs a great sword like goodluck figuring out which one is "better" and a ~15% difference is actually huge late game. It's the difference between an enemy dying in 2 hits or not
>>731000068>how are you supposed to know if you didn't go full retardBy having an IQ > 80
The amount of phantoms I see wielding the Bloodhound Fang is absurd. And it's fucking everywhere, even in the DLC. It's like one of the first weapons you can get in the game and basic bitch-tier.
>>730997480Isn't ashes of war meant to offset this? also my first playthrough on release went something like>Hero start (greataxe)>Lordsworn Greatsword>Battle hammer + wild swings>Grafted Blade Greatsword>Greatsword + Giant Hunt>Greatsword + Lion's Claw>Greatsword/Troll's Golden Greatsword + Lion's Claw>Godslayer's greatsword + offhand buffs>Maliketh's Black Blade + Godslayer's Greatsword dual wield
>>731000165>pole arm vs a great swordThat's exactly what I just said, take the one whose moveset you like more>and a ~15% difference is actually huge late game. It's the difference between an enemy dying in 2 hits or notI also just told you to disregard that if you want to have funIf you're brainbroken and always need the most optimal weapon, then look it up online, you're not having fun anyway
>>731000186okay then...
>>730997523midwit retard
>>731000123If that's the cope you want to go with, that's okay with me, again, I'm not expecting you to be able to understand half of whatever I'm trying to teach you here, whether because of your melanin levels or due to some other defect you're afflicted with, but know that I am laughing at you for being so autistic and stupid that you don't even realize how far down the hole you are, that's all
>>731000256I have fun not dying to an enemy with 5hp left when my +8 Beater of Gypsies boss soul weapon couldn't finish the job of my +10 Greatsword I got as a starting weapon. There just needs to be an "extrapolate" option
>>731000465>dying to an enemy you can kill in 2 hits
Unique weapons + permanent degradation
>>731000586But if the weapons are unique, won't you eventually run out?
>>730998656>>730999879>OP: "playing with one or 2 tiny movesets all game is fucking boring">(You): "DO YOU HAVE A SINGLE FACT TO BACK THAT UP???? REEEEEEEE"lmao
>>731000624>Elden Ring's base game features around 308 unique weapons, spread across numerous categories like swords, axes, staves, and seals, with the massive Shadow of the Erdtree DLC adding over 100 more
>>731000879>308DamnI played 100 hours and only really used like 4 of them
Nightreighn
>>731000586fuck noThat feels like pure shit. Like you're hurting yourself every time you hit anything. It ruins BOTW
>>730999905>because it would mean i built my character that way for no reasonHow? All it means is you're not permanently committed to your build. As long as you can't change builds on the fly in the pause menu, it's fine
>>731001018Nah. It's a finite resource you have to expend to stay alive.
>>731002071I understand that, it still feels like shit. It's actually worse than hurting yourself because you can't just heal the "damage" back. It encourages players to just never use the weapons they like because they want to save them for later
>>730997480Can be fixed with two related mechanics:1. Fairly cheap method to swap the upgrade level of 2 weapons on the same material path. This allows you to try out new weapons against the toughest enemies that you are facing. Would probably require a fumbly UI, so it might make sense to last until your next rest/death.2. A method of permanently swapping upgrade levels, but with a more considerable price tag.
>>731002071Great mechanic in a game like Nethack. Not so much in Dark Souls.
>>731002209>It encourages players to just never use the weapons they likeAdd a rust mechanic to unused weapons
>>730997787>Unironically thinks the topic of discussion is an Elden Ring patch >Talking down to others smugly despite having the reading comprehension of a baboonHoly shit you really are the dumbest "guy who thinks he's smart" I have ever seen
I think a significantly larger problem in Soulslike games overall is how utterly fucking useless every spell and weapon is by default. It crosses a line from being difficult to just petty and insulting to the player. So many spells and weapons are devastating when used against you but are essentially useless when you attempt to use them. Every single offensive method in the game requires autistic stat investment to not be the equivalent of throwing pillows at the enemy.There is not a single point in all of Elden Ring where you actually feel like a God slayer, despite that being the entire focus of the game. It's indefensible. The autistic retards doing the balancing need to fuck off forever and let us have a Fromsoft game that isn't cock and ball torture from start to finish. Let a fucking meteor shower spell actually feel like a meteor shower spell just one fucking time jesus christ
>>731000879300 of which are completely useless even with heavy stat investments and hours of upgrading via grinding souls to buy materials. It's unacceptable how poorly balanced Fromsoft games have become. There is such an obsession with feigning difficulty that the whole design formula is collapsing in on itself to revolve around a tiny group of items for each iteration.
>>731000586>>731002071I want you burned alive as your family is forced to watch.
>>730997480By removing 90% of the weapons and design every weapon with care. See bloodborne, even similar weapons play and feel vastly different.
>>731000919Yeah because a normal person only gets enough whestones to upgrade like 4 weapons to usable territory by endgame making the other 300 literally worthless
>>731003368Not only that, their design is all over the place>Dagger>Dagger with some ornament>Rusty, curved dagger>Sasukasa, the hentaikiller, also a dagger>Comically large daggerAnd all of them feel and play the same.
>>730997480>limited upgrade matsonly the ones that get you to +10, everything else is basically infinite
>>730997480i used that sword for like 20 hours before i realized the special move had a second part to it (the forward slash teleport). i was solely using the opening backstep for a long time kek
>>731003526You get a ton of somber stones considering how you only need one per tier.Now regular whetstones require you to scrape every map to find them, also mines and you need a lot of them per tier. And even if you skip things and dash through maps, some varieties are still rare and a couple of bells are found very late in the game.They should tie progression more to your level/stats rather than weapon upgrades.
>>730997480>How would one fix this objectively huge flaw?No weapons upgrades. Alternatively, weapon upgrades that you can remove and put onto a different weapon.
>>730997480Souls games need to be more RPG less action. I’m not saying make it turn based or anything, but having good builds and strategy be a more deciding factor than just rolling to win would be a lot healthier to the genre. We’ve seen the absolute retardation that the PREPARE TO DIE mentality leads to.
>>731003672if you have a +10 weapon and you use a +7 weapon, you are just intentionally handicapping yourself in an already difficult game
>>731004117if you have a shitty build with a +10 weapon and a good build with the +7 weapon, guess which is better?
>>731004296>>731004117>same retards complaining about rolls being OPniggers, just roll lmaowhat kind of bullshit are you trying to pull, acting as if a +7 vs +10 matters at all holy fuck, not only is that autistic meta gaming but also just get good, faggots
>>731004296the problem is you've gotta replay the whole game with the different build to find out that your other build was shit
>>730997480It wasn't a flaw in Dark Souls 1,2,3 because those games are actually replayable.It becomes a flaw for Elden Ring because Elden Ring isn't as replayable, it's a more tedious game.And so the solution is either:1. Make Elden Ring more replayable.2. Just change the weapon system to make all weapons usable in one playthrough. Maybe like Nioh/Diablo where you find stronger weapons all the time (that are already at various upgrade levels) and so you're constantly switching to a new weapon.
>>731004486>Diablo lootdisgusting
I’m actually hopeful for future games because Nightrein shows significant progress in making characters feel unique both gameplay and appearance wise. Hopefully they can tie that diversity into a single player rpg progression system. I always felt like the current system was too simple and a bit outdated.
>>731004505You wouldn't need to go all the way with Diablo's modifiers.You could have a Longsword +2 somewhere in the world, and a Battleaxe +3 somewhere in the world, and so on.
>>730997480Introduce attacks cooldown, you can only use a grounded R1 again after hitting with another 2 attacks (roll R1, jumping R1, R2, magic, etc).Introduce heavy weapon durability. Connecting attacks causes loss, being blocked twice as much. A single area should take away around 70% of a single weapon, and at 25% it deals half damage. At 0% it breaks, either causing weapon loss or loss of one upgrade level. Repairing costs the same as 5 level ups no matter the amount of durability.Introduce blacksmith "leveling". Every time you upgrade a weapon, the costs for the previous level upgrades for all weapons is cut significantly, but the base cost for everything is super high. So after grinding a +2, getting +1s is super easy, but a +3 is a chore. After getting a +3, getting +2s becomes trivial, etc.
>>730997480One of the reasons I like Nightreign is being able to have a reason to fuck around with almost every weaponADD THE DLC WEAPONS YOU JAPS
>>730998984>no you don't get it, it's SUPPOSED to be really limited so that you have to waste your time playing it 20 times to get it all
>>731004661This sounds like the most ass idea possible and I genuinely believe you mean what you say and think it will be fun.
>>730997480Introduce a way to refund upgrade materials like Wuchang did.Fewer weapons, but give each weapon a more unique moveset, or just go Nioh way and introduce a single moveset per weapon type with enormous ass load of attacks and specific gimmicks.Allow to attune ashes of war into attunement slots so melee fighters will actually have an advantage over mages.
>>731003898this
>>731004586>>731004731Nightreign is unplayable dogshit and you are not welcome in the Souls community.
>>730997480>How would one fix this objectively huge flaw?steal The Surge 2's upgrade material system
You bring durability back, make certain weapons better or worse depending on the situation, and give them different handling characteristics. Like what DS2 did but then you filter this retard roll spam fanbase.
I farmed the Halo Scythe in Caelid super early and spent most of the early game using that until I found the Godslayer GreatswordI never even found the Winged Scythe and got the Blasphemous Blade super late.
>>731006813Idk man, they even fixed the boring music problem of Elden Ring. I know it’s le multiplayer slop but it’s not bad for what it is.
>>730997480Instead of hiding most of the infinite upgrade material shop unlocks in mineshafts no one would ever willingly want to do, reward all of them from beating major bosses. So you'd just know when you had access to infinites as you completed the game.
>>730998495Unsheathe is good early on, but you miss using a great sword by the midgame when your standard R1s don't do hitstun to enemies and you're relying entirely on spamming Unsheathe to break shields/poise.
>>730997480>flawthere is no correlation between your opening statement and the final question.
>>730998984It is a >100 hr ARPG. There is no justification for 'locking you into' something that you'd have committed to potentially months ago. The last time that you could argue that these games were justified in 'locking you into' a build was DS2.Bloodborne was the first to make that unjustifiable because the trick weapons as a concept encouraged experimentation (and many were only available relatively late in the game), but high upgrade cost and no respec made that untenable without Cum Dungeon soul farming. DS3 and Elden Ring doubled down.
>>731007550Bloodborne is not really much of an arpg to me, it’s about as much of an rpg as nu-GoW. Not saying that’s a bad thing, it just is what it is.
>>731000165>Yeah I mean sometimes it's obvious that the dropped "Black Long Sword of Semite Genocide" is better than "Longsword"This is a Souls game. The more boring a weapon is, the more likely it is to be good. In this big list of swords, which do you think is the meta pick for the best in slot on most curved sword builds? The answer is of course that rusty one in the top row that you can get like 5 minutes into the game. The Bandit's Curved Sword that gives you better damage and range than every other in most builds.Number 2 is the Wing of Astel, but that is for situational INT builds that rely entirely on its charged heavy.
>>731000115The Prisoner class is for INT/STR Ranni simps.
>>731000517>dyingImagine bragging about your lack of skill.
>>731003230This is entirely down to your build crafting. Here's a tip, don't spend it all in one place - investing in defensive talismans and buffs at the cost of DPS is almost always a trap in this game. At all times you should be maximizing your damage in every way.
>>730997480You sound like a complete normienigger that would cheat on his weaponfu without a moments notice. What a retarded thread.
>>731007406I just replaced it with Quickstep and kept spamming r1.
>>730997480It's only limited if you want to max out a weapon which you don't really need to do
>>730997480Just play DS2/SotFS and it fixes that upgrade problem
>>730997480This is only a problem in Elden Ring because they're way too stingy with non-somber upgrade mats. The fix is obvious: be less stingy. Why the FUCK does neo-/v/ always talk about Elden Ring specific problems as though every game in the genre has them? Why can't you just admit that Elden Ring is fuced up?
>>731008143>There's almost 300 weapons in the game, but you're stuck with the one you found in Limgrave for the entire time because you only find enough materials to upgrade 4 of them, and you can't buy the materials you want until you're 2 areas after where they'd be useful ER's balance is dogshit
>>730997480There are mines marked on the map that give lots of upgrading materials and a shop upgrade item that allows you to buy upgrade materials indefinitely. I hope that helps, OP.
>>731009501I just think the majority of complaints about stuff like this in video games in general is an overreaction.
>>730999498>grinds upgrade materials for ONLY 8 hoursyoung blood admitting he never played OG DeS and got the pure bladestone
>>730997480tie level ups and stats to gear, so if you find a better weapon you'll naturally want to use it
>>731009698You have to be a retard for this to happen, I don't sympathize with retards
>>731007887This is a very disingenuous post made by somebody who watches youtube tierlist videos rather than actually playing the fucking game.BCS is considered "meta" because of its general scaling and range but it's something that is entirely shared with the Shamshir, which has the better basic moveset at the cost of slightly worse status scaling, but the shamshir is also a fixed drop rather than something you have to farm.Nearly every other weapon in that image has a niche and quite a few are better than either depending on your build.INT doesn't want the BCS, it wants Wing of Astel because it's just better than BCS at any level due to its busted R2s.FTH wants the Magma Blade for similar reasons, because its weapon art is stupidly strong on anything that doesn't resist fire.ARC wants the Scavenger CS on Occult for the stupidly high AR and Bleed.DEX will prefer both Falx and Ranah's due to their multihit weapon arts being much, much stronger options than powerstanced Keen BCS/ShamshirSTR will gravitate more to Beastman's because of the better scaling and unique jumping R1s.Mantis Blade has unique R2s which have higher stance damage than anything outside of Wing of Astel.Nox Flowing Sword has a strong weapon art for crowd control.The only actual junk weapons are the Shotels because their shield penetration niche is just too weak due to their horrid base stats, and the Flowing CS is redundant now that Ranah exist, everything else either has strong specific niches or is good enough for general use with the "meta" picks being actually fairly build specific.
>>730997480remove stat requirement for the weapons but give the weapons itself stats that increase.With that you can use any weapon you pick up but you also have a reason to switch weapons because the next weapon you pick up has higher stat, last third of the game end game you get mats to level all weapons to max stat so you can pick which one you liked the most over the course of the game.
>>730997480Elden Ring unironically has way too much choice for weapons. It didn't need that many.Bloodborne had the perfect amount of variety.Elden Ring has almost as many weapon types as Bloodborne had weapons altogether. And then lots of weapons in ER are unique and have their own movesets, which effectively make them different from all others of their own type. Let's not even get into the Ashes of War customization autism or the wheatstone system, both of which I never touched.
>>730997480It has nothing to do with material rarity, most people are just single minded until something shiny catches their eye. I used the partisan for the first 120 hours of Elden Ring, because it looked great and spears are awesome, simple as.
>>730997480I don't think it's a problem that needs to be solved desu. If players are really boring and don't like to play around with builds then that's on them. Elden Ring especially has an abundance of upgrade materials that are easily acquired.But if I wanted to force it:1) Allow weapons to be recycled for their upgrade materials. You lose the base weapon but you get back 75% of the smithing stones or whatever.2) Stop randomly placing gear. The further into the game you get, the better the gear should be. I shouldn't still be getting starting gear in Altus Plateau.3) Gear acquired earlier in the game can only be upgraded to a limited amount. Have different versions of the same weapon that can be upgraded further for players that are really set on using the same moveset. i.e. Longsword can only go to +8, Zanzibart's Longsword can go to +15, etc.
>>731010072no it doenst in fact having no weapon choice in a playthrough is the main problem with elden ring... yeah you have 300 weapons and you can only use like 10 on any given character based on your level ups. its retarded.it makes 99% of "rewards" you pick up completely useless "oh wow another big hammer i cant use thanks for nothing i guess!"
>>731009698You brainlets should maybe play a video game or at least learn about the video game you're shitposting about before you hit submit.
>>731009930The only way to not "let" it happen is to play with a guide and know which areas to speedrun to ahead of your own progress and find the bell bearings you're not supposed to have yet. Go on the wiki right now and count every single smithing stone you find in the game. I have. You have exactly enough to upgrade 4 weapons. The bottleneck hits around smithing stones +4 and +5. And those have to be shared between your melee weapons and spell catalysts. The game is balanced around exactly ONE route>You pick up some shitter weapon in Limgrave or Liurnia>You use it until you kill your first Remembrance boss or find a Somber weapon in a chest>You immediately cycle through Somber weapons while reserving your smithing stones for catalysts (remember, you need to cycle through 2-3 catalysts per run as you level your magic because of scaling breakpoints)>Any non-somber weapons are relegated to routing challenge runs and pvp buildsThe entirety of the Ash of War system is a victim of ER schizophrenic design and balancing philosophy: all these customization options that are useless to you because you don't have the upgrade materials to use them.
>>731010071This is from a game design view the best solution so far in this thread.
>>731010215>The vtumber simp thinks he gets to have opinions
>>731010292You knew it was vtuber related, I did not. What does that say about you.
>>731010210That's a different problem altogether.I guess a solution would be to have the player find materials and the weapons themselves would have to be crafted. So instead of finding finished weapons, you'd have to make your own from a crafting tree? Maybe you could unlock new options from fighting certain enemies and bosses?
>>731010229>Go on the wiki right now and count every single smithing stone you find in the game. I have. You have exactly enough to upgrade 4 weapons.Good thing nearly every enemy in the game drops smithing stones 1-7 like candies and they also respawn infinitely, not to mention enemies like fingercreepers that have scripted somber drops too or the bells you get from the mines
>>731006813Kys nigger lover
>>731010367It means I've spent longer on this website than you and know it's culture better than you, newfag. Certain things are impossible to not absorb by osmosis, like you're doing right now.
>>731010443Yeah sure bud
>>731007887You are a faggot for following metas and youre the reason why games are getting worse.
>>730998031This would be an amazing argument if botw had more than three shallow movesets in the entire game.
>>731010393>Dude go back and farm upgrade materials every time you add a new entry to your 200+ item inventory because the game only gives you enough materials to upgrade 4% of them and deliberately places the merchants outside your reach unless you're reading a guide How fucking mindbroken are you to think this is a good thing? Is this an MMO? Do you want me to bring you 20 rabbit foreskins next to access the Grand Lift of Rold?
>>730997480By making Sekiro 2 and limiting the player to one weapon again. If they don't like it they can fuck off and go replay Elden Slop with a different weapon pretending that the gameplay is somehow more novel this time around
>>731010572NTA but the implication of drops like candies is that they are easy to get just by playing>so you want me to go back to areas to farm shitter enemiesno because you can buy them from bells using the souls you get just from playing the game>places the merchants outside your reach unless you're reading a guideWay to expose yourself you mongoloid lol
>>731010572>>Dude go back and farm upgrade materialsJust killing shit as you play is more than enough, you also have a surplus of Rune currency to waste on your miner's bells to the point you can get multiple weapons to +24/+9 effortlessly.No different from Souls games either, actually better in fact considering you have the bells and also no longer need to chase after fleeing lizards that will despawn either>because the game only gives you enough materials to upgrade 4% of them and deliberately places the merchants outside your reach unless you're reading a guideMaybe you should actually play the game rather than just shitposting about it
>>730997480Well you could do a mixture of relaxing the cost of upgrades and giving enemies more distinct weaknesses both in terms of raw stats and how they move and fight to encourage players to try out new weapons and approaches rather than bash their face into a brick wall over and over.That sounds like a ton of effort though so it'd probably be easier to just hire some cheap indians to spam a silly slogan like "you didn't beat the game" to pressure the easily influenced into bending over backwards trying to beat the game in a way strangers over the internet approve of.I mean they have to after all since the community this game has cultivated has replaced actual merit and self worth with being able to beat a game marketed as being hard.
>>731010559BOTW's weapon upgrade system works very well in it's early game and late game. I still fondly remember the experience of fighting my way to Zora's Domain and having to scrounge up new weapons in the middle of fights as mine broke, and adjusting on the fly to whatever I got. The system is really fun when both you and the mobs have the same tier of weapons so you don't feel like you're cucking yourself by breaking your weapons fighting them. It falls apart in the midgame, when you find really good loot from chests that's way better than the shit weapons the enemies carry, and you're like "literally why would I bother fighting you?" It picks back up at the very end when the mobs also get endgame weapons, but there's a big stretch in the middle that falls flat.
>>730997480plenty of spin-off soulslikes solve this problem: weapon upgrades are universal
>>730997480Play another game that's not solely combat over and over again. Elden Ring got so fuckin boring I never even finished it. The only fun part is co-op, for which you could literally play any other co-op. Combat combat combat -> retarded obscure "platforming" to reach some stupid corpse item -> combat combat combat yeah what a great loop.
>>731010865What adjustment? Every 1 handed weapon handles the same, same for all spears and other two handers. The only difference is a slight tweak on damage and durability.
>>731003230>I think a significantly larger problem in Soulslike games overall is how utterly fucking useless every spell and weapon is by default.This is especially notable if you play a spellcaster and most spells are too unwieldy to use compared to the basic magic bolt ones, maybe they are supposed to be useful for catching people offguard in PvP but they've also been reducing the PvP elements in later entries so it just feels pointless.
>>731010865The fact that you're even considering all this trivial dps horseshit for a Zelda game that lacks a single good dungeon shows their utter failure to make a proper Zelda game.
>>731010787>>731010861>no because you can buy them from bells using the souls you get from playingHow about YOU play the game, you dumb faggots. You don't get access to those bell bearings until they're long obsolete. You find the +3 and +4 stone bearing in fucking Lleyndell, when you're finding 6, 7, and 8 stones on the floor. You're telling me that your intended blind playthrough strat is to magically know you need to speedrun from Liurnia all the way to Lleyndell, pick up the bearing, and then walk back to clear Caelid and Volcano Manor? You are fucking high. That's not how it works.>Just killing shit as you play is more than enoughFuck off it isn't lmao. This is only true if you die 20 times to every boss and kill every enemy on the way during every runback. Why are you trying so hard to lie through your teeth in the defense of the obviously indefensible? Are you playing a modded version of the game and just forgot it's modded?
>>731010973And swing speed, and reach, and thrusting vs horizontal vs vertical moves, and other obvious things that shouldn't need explaining if you actually did play the game yourself.
>>731010070>Mantis Blade has unique R2s which have higher stance damage than anything outside of Wing of Astel.Stop gaslighting people into thinking everything is unique and important
>>731011146You are too confidentially wrong to keep interacting with
I-is it legal to showcase Bloodborne PC emulation on an official tech site?Can I play this thing at 1440p with a Ryzen 5600 and a 5060Ti 16GB?https://youtu.be/fqOs2chL3NQhttps://youtu.be/fqOs2chL3NQ
>>730997558Tell me about the inner monologue.
>>731011146>How about YOU play the game, you dumb faggots.I certainly did, how about you?>You don't get access to those bell bearings until they're long obsolete.Wrong.>This is only true if you die 20 times to every boss and kill every enemy on the way during every runback.Not really, the world is chock full of enemies for you to kill, no need for runbacks of any kind especially since just resting at a grace respawns everything that isn't a scripted one time only enemy.Some enemies even give you multiple smithstone drops, I don't know what more do you want.>>731011267>Stop gaslighting peopleYou should take your own advice.
>>730997523they change the game on every version
>>731010070These are inventing reasons to use worse weapons. I already addressed the Wing of Astel, that has a niche. The Magma Blade ability is gimped by half the game either having water in boss arenas or rainy weather cycles. And you're using it entirely for the weapon art as opposed to the melee DPS. Scavenger's is fine to pair with a Bandit's sword, but you can only get one per game and it is only 'better' if you hard focus on Arcane. Otherwise on a mixed Blood Infusion, Bandit's is better.The Falx's ability is basically useless in most cases because it doesn't have the hyperarmor to tank the boss turning around and ripping your head off. 9/10 you're just going to do jumping R2s, the same as always. Beastmen's is only good if you two hand a heavy infusion like a downs syndrome patient or someone twinking invasions in Limgrave. The Bandit's is just excellent in almost every circumstance, so its a blind default pick. No thoughts, head empty, you know it will be really good at whatever you need it to do. Its like trying to invent a reason not to use the Cleanrot Knight's sword when selecting a thrusting sword. The Antspur is the only one with a niche. The others are all absolutely worse. Or using something other than the Warped Axe, in the Axe category.
>>731000879>308>99% share a moveset within its category with maybe 1 unique ability tied to it>There are 39 weapon categories in ER>-1 for catalysts because they're essentially the same>-1 for claws and fists because they're essentially the same>-1 for torches>-1 for light bows and bows because they're essentially the sameYou can GENEROUSLY say there are around 35 unique weapons in ER with little variation behind it. Regardless, this doesn't fucking matter because the movesets and usages are basically the same. In practise, the Souls series in general has an incredibly limited amount of player choice when it comes to combat.This didn't matter in Darksouls/Demonsouls because the combat wasn't the focus, but as the series went on it became more and more bossfight oriented which shows the flaws in this design philosophy.
>>731011198How long does it take you to remember 3 weapon movesets?
>>731011146You are actually retarded and maybe shouldn’t play this sort of game. You don’t need to have a maxed weapon at all times to kill enemies, you’re using it as a crutch for not learning how to fight and angry the devs didn’t design the entire game around your autistic inability to stick with one weapon for a while.
>>731010482>using good weapons is badStunning and brave.
>>731011615I will always pick grossmesser over the bandit sword because grossmesser looks better.
>>730998978Trvke
>>731010072Usually its for granularity. The Knight's Greatsword and the Banished Knight's Greatswords can be found at about the same time, have the same moveset, are about the same length, and have similar stat requirements. But the Knight's Greatsword scales better with DEX infusions, the Banished Knight's Greatsword scales better with STR infusions. So if you're doing a Lightning build, you'll go with the former, if you're doing a Fire or Heavy build you can go with the latter.
>>731010229finally someone who understands game design
>>730997480Remove weapon upgrades. You pick something up and that's it, weapons have scaling and you already level up anyway.
>>731000586Mirror's Edge has a great system which forces you to drop weapons but you can always steal a new one so it isn't a big deal. Of course in a Soulslike you'd want the capacity to mend weapons, but the gist could be borrowed.
>>731011475>You don't get access to those bell bearings until they're long obsolete.>Wrong.Every single word I typed is correct. Prove even a single word of this text wrong>You're telling me that your intended blind playthrough strat is to magically know you need to speedrun from Liurnia all the way to Lleyndell, pick up the bearing, and then walk back to clear Caelid and Volcano Manor? You are fucking high. That's not how it worksYou fucking can't. Your next cope is telling me that the intended progression is to ironically speedrun to Morgott and then speedrun to Zamora Ruins for the 5/6 stone bearing before circling back to clear Lleyndell Catacombs and Mt Gelmir, which is where you actually find 5/6 stones on the floor and where the content is balanced around that upgrade level. >>731011669>Dude you're supposed to be playing 6 entire upgrade levels behind where the game's balanced around if you want to experiment with your weaponsWhy did you just write out exactly why this game's balance is bullshit as though it's disagreeing with what I'm saying?
>>731004486Trvke
>>731010572>>731011146You're 100% correct. I was bottlenecked hard in Caelid looking for Smithing 4s to upgrade the handful of weapons I liked to use before I knew about the Bell Bearings on my first run. I ended up farming those Flamethrower Face Tanks at that one set of ruins because they dropped Smithing 4s at what seemed to be the best rate in the game because I had no other options to get more Smithing Stones. No merchants, no bearings, nada. People here all did the same bullshit where they ran to Haight Castle, then ran to the bat fort in Caelid then took the elevator to Leyndell and grabbed the Bell Bearing before going back and clearing out Radahn and co. Or they used literally one or two weapons the entire game and don't realize how many fucking stones you need to upgrade anything.
>>731011475No anon, you can't just go around pretending every weapon actually matters. I'm not the guy you were replying to but it's obvious you just think you're super clever because you can name something unique about a list of curved swordsYes the R2 has higher poise damage, well done. Of all the things you could be abusing in Elden Ring, standing there holding R2 on a 2 inch curved sword is not high on the list. Mantis is miserable to use, most of the CS on the list are shit, the guy's broad point that basic looking starting weapons are regularly better than glowing magical boss bullshit is bang on the money
>>730997480>how do we fix retarded cattleyou dont, enjoyers will enjoy and knowers will know
>>731011615>These are inventing reasons to use worse weapons.No, you're inventing reasons while also contradicting yourself with nearly every statement you make.Magma blade DPS is perfectly fine on FTH, the weapon art is just the cherry on top and you use it for the absurdly fast stance damage accumulation rather than the equally absurd direct damage that isn't really bothered by the few actual instances of water puddles and bad weather, the only actual downside of the Magma Blade is farming it.>The Falx's ability is basically useless in most casesWrong, the weapon art itself not only lets you close gaps fast, it low profiles A LOT of this so you don't even need its already decent HA to make it work, couple it with Malenia's GR, Rotten Wing Insignia and the Swaddling Cloth and it's incredibly strong in both PVE and PVP.>Beastmen's is only good if you two hand a heavy infusion like a downs syndrome patientSo you're agreeing it's better than BCS within its niche, good.>The Bandit's is just excellent in almost every circumstanceSo is the Shamshir, too bad both lose to actually specialized options.>Its like trying to invent a reason not to use the Cleanrot Knight's sword when selecting a thrusting sword.Rogier's has the better R2 for status effects, Antspur has rot, Carian is a catalyst you can pair perfectly with the Carian Dueling Shield and so on.Cleanrot's only notable for being a non Estoc type rapier with Estoc range and its best scaling is STR, the AR difference with other thrusting sword is not that drastic on other infusions, you're parroting empty youtube minmaxing theorycrafting that doesn't stand the test of actual gameplay.>Or using something other than the Warped Axe, in the Axe category.Messmer's Soldier Axe alone invalidates this argument entirely because WA is only good for pure STR axe builds, nevermind hatchets which are actually the meta axe pick due to offhand shenanigans.
>>731011669>devs didn’t design the entire game around your autistic inability to stick with one weapon for a while.Why put 300 weapons in the game if swapping between 10 is too much for the upgrade economy on a blind playthrough?
>>730997480Make it so the player uses materials to upgrade the blacksmith rather than their weapons.All that’s needed to upgrade weapons after that is souls
>>731011995>Prove even a single word of this text wrongI could and you'd still try to weasel out of this like you're currently doing.>Your next cope is telling me that the intended progression is to ironically speedrun to MorgottI literally just said the opposite by mentioning that taking your time to simply kill enemies you come across gives you more than enough smithing stones, are you illiterate?
>>730997480Well the system is already in Elden Ring, but nobody uses it properly. Smithing Stone weapons are meant to be the basic bitch weapon types, and with the ash of war system have varied utility by themselves. Upgrading smithing stone weapons is a bitch, but it's really easy to get the early smithing stones and smithing stone bell bearings so there's nothing wrong with dropping what you were investing in early game. On the other hand, somber weapons are more unique and niche, but much easier to upgrade to the point where you can have 1-3 somber weapon options upgraded as you progress.People just choose a single weapon to play with and roll with it anyways, no system will fix that unless you try to force them to switch weapons which is detrimental
>>730997480Nioh already fixed this problem, but people will act like the loot system is a bad thing.
>>730997480lies of peepeewuchang
>>731012209>absurdly fast stance damage accumulationHate to rain on your parade here, bro, but the lava doesn't actually do stance damage, nor does it keep the ticker from resetting. It has a special trait of having a Damage level of 0 and does zero stance damage, therefore it doesn't count to the ticker. The magma blade just has normal spinning slash curved sword stance damage.
>dude look at this cool weapon you got 60 hours in>yeah it's worse than the one you got 50 hours ago>yeah it takes upgrading materials you already used up>yeah it also has worse weapon art and a very specific scaling>but it gets a buff when the moon is full and it's raining!>see? every weapon is viable
This is like saying that FPS is spending 100% of the game spamming the same 1 attack ( left click ).Tired of retards saying Souls Games have bad combat to be contrarian when there's not a single western game with melee combat as good as Souls games, Monster Hunter, or Phantasy Star Online.
>>731012209>WA is only good for pure STR axe builds>he doesn't knowIt gets Great Axe status build up for some inexplicable reason. It is the best axe for all STR, INT, ARC builds.
>>731012345Just typing "wrong" isn't proving anything, you stupid piece of shit. You fucking lost.
Soldiers and miners in each area drop smithing stones. Once you get into late game areas you get a huge amount of runes so you can buy whatever you need. The last couple bell bearings are right in the main story path as well. It's only an issue early game on your first playthrough, and even then you can easily go get the first bell bearing in the tunnels as early as you wish.
>>731012164>Of all the things you could be abusing in Elden Ring, standing there holding R2 on a 2 inch curved sword is not high on the list.I guess it's a good thing that the mantis R2's specifically double its range, almost as if it's the entire gimmick of the weapon...>most of the CS on the list are shitThis is factually wrong, only the shotels are garbage.>the guy's broad point that basic looking starting weapons are regularly better than glowing magical boss bullshit is bang on the moneyNot really, not in ER, many if not most of the top tiers are uniques/boss weapons and there's very few actual unusable weapons.ER's average joe's like the broadsword are rarely better than uniques in the same category like SONAF or the Regalia of Eochaid, the humble claymore is still a great weapon but it doesn't compare to more specialized GS like the poker or even the alabaster GS with its bullshit charged R2s.
>>731004592>+2>+3waist of time in a game that has weapons that go up to all the way up to +25
>>731011635Matthew eternally correct.
>>731012746>Tired of retards saying Souls Games have bad combat to be contrarian when there's not a single western game with melee combat as good as Souls games, Monster Hunter, or Phantasy Star Online.Even mentioning Monster Hunter combat and Souls combat in the same sentence should be grounds for stoning.Souls combat under no circumstance even gets close to the level MH has.
>>731013017Matthew is a retard who occasionally makes a good point.
>>731012436>Nioh already fixed this problem, but people will act like the loot system is a bad thing.it is, diablo loot makes you have to look and check every single weapon in your menu to see if its better, then you have to sell the millions of extras you find and decide which ones to keep
7s ruining weapon upgrade paths? limited stones? sorry, im not retarded
The solution would be to upgrade character equipment level across the board, that way any new items you encounter are at their max possible level
>>730997480Nightreign fixes that on top of allowing you to change your "build" (character), every single run, I used weapons and abilities that I never used in vanilla elden ring thanks to that game.But for the regular game I would just change the upgrade system completely, remove the number upgrades (+1,+2) and keep the rest, weapons just scale with your level, same with the phantoms
>>731012789>It's only an issue in your first 100 hour playthrough, it gets good 150 hours in bro, trust me
>>731012746Souls combat is shit compared to actual action games. But that’s expected given that it’s supposed to be an action rpg. Taking away rpg elements just exposes how weak the combat is. It doesn’t even look cool, because the dodge rolling spam looks ridiculous. The best souls combat was Dark Souls 1 because it actually feels like an immersive fight. RPG elements exist to differentiate characters. It should never have tried to be “the best melee combat in gaming”.
>>730997480Nioh 2 already solved all of this.>weapons start with just a few moves>unlock more moves as you spend more time with that specific weapon type>temper weapons to scale with different stats>even if you split all stats evenly you don't lose out on an insane amount of damage for not minmaxing like in Souls (~10-15%).>weapon drops are level-matched (say if you have a +8 weapon, if you find a new weapon it'll already be +8, or could make it 1-2 levels lower if that's too OP)
>>731012491I stand corrected.>>731012765I know, but>24 STR requirementIt's a STR weapon through and through and it's status buildup is not enough to sell it to non STR builds when you have other options with half the STR requirement and better scaling.ARC bleed will prefer the Forked Hatchet or the Ripple Blade unless it's specifically STR/ARC, FTH/ARC in particular will naturally gravitate to things like Messmer's soldier Axe or again, Forked/Ripple because of the stat requirements.ARC builds specifically don't actually benefit much from the extra scaling on the WA because they're able to cap the Bleed scaling on other things so fast having 20-30 more doesn't make a huge difference and isn't worth spending 15+ points on STR to wield the thing, it's an investment you can consider for, again, STR/ARC builds especially because WA coincidentially has pretty good Guard Boost for two handing and pairing it with the Sekiro sip but it's a specific niche you'd want to actively get into at the cost of other possible options that would make you more versatile, it's something I'd definitely consider if I wanted to use specific STR/ARC weapons like the Chicken stick or the Meteoric Ore GS, but on the average ARC build? There's not really much to gain there, you have better option elsewhere and an Occult forked hatchet alone completely shits on most things despite its dogshit range, WA is definitely the better option for PvP but that still isn't enough to convince me it's worth investing points into STR for the status scaling on an ARC build.
>>731010584All real action games have a variety of weapons. Sekiro just doesn't have depth. Retards acting like that's a good thing.
>>731013685no one who is a vidya enjoyer likes redditkiro
>>731013425True. Dark Souls is at it's best when you're lost in a dark dungeon and fighting random mobs and critters. Elden Ring is wack.
>>730997480>How would one fix this objectively huge flaw?Flaw? It's you that's a bitch ass min-maxxer.
>>730998031A universally hated design choice.
In Lies of P, my first playthrough I used>starting saber>rapier>flame dagger>fire axe>bandit dagger>khukri>koreatana>DLC lady saberAnd these are pretty boring weapons, the game has a giant pizza cutter, a butcher's knife, a gunblade and loads moreAnd I never tried swapping the blades/handles of different weapons around, except for getting the bandit dagger moveset on the flame dagger sometimesThe game is good because they tried to make the weapons as unique as possible
>>731013685I don't know what you think depth even is but Sekiro has plenty of it. It introduces new mechanics throughout the course of the game that build on top of the fundamentals and then has a final boss that makes use of most all of them together. It's a wonderful action game. Having one mechanic and then choosing to explore it to a much greater extent than over the course of the game is just not the type of depth that you personally enjoy I guess
>>731014738DSP beat the final boss in 2 tries just spamming one move. Dont kid yourself.
>>731014854I mean that's just blatantly untrue so...
>>731015049lol
>>730997480I keep the same weapon because it's the one I want to usewhy would I change it halfway through the game?
>>731014738Sekiro is a literal rhythm game. It saw the dodge roll poke repeat memes of DS3 and asked “ok what if we actually built a game around it?”
>>731015113lmao
>>730998031Would've worked if the game didn't shower you with weapons and turn you into walking armory, so breaking a sword has no impact beyond forcing you to pause the game for two seconds to switch to one of your 43 identical ones.
>>731014854DSP actually got gud towards the end of Sekiro, it was quite magical actually.
>>730997480I've been saying it for a decade now, From Software should just do away with weapon upgrades altogether.
>>731015282yes and?
>>730997480Fewer weapons. Upgrading is free but limited by story progression. Respeccing is free.
>>731015280>why would I change it halfway through the game?Maybe weapon has a better moveset for fighting the boss you are stuck on?
>>731015282and it's more enjoyable than the entirety of the souls series because it's laser focused on its combat system
>>731015527>changing my build to fight one bosspeople actually do that shit?I built my character the way I did because that's the way I want to playI'm not going to change it just because I run into a challenge
>>731015394DSP's gameplay is 90% retard and 10% genius. I'm still not sure when the ironic pretending stops and the genuine retardation starts. He also first tried the High Halls arena in Silksong.
>>731015546Depends on what you like about these games.If you got suckered into the PREPARE TO DIE marketing then sure yeah I guess Sekiro is the game for you.
>>731015645Okay so you want to be locked into only using a couple of basic weapons for dozens of hours. Say you are in your 30s and you don't have time to replay a 30-100 hour game 5 times. What would be so bad about being able to use any weapon type effectively on the first playthrough? Is that really outrageous?
>>731015830I like the combat, and Sekiro's is refined because it can focus on perfecting one thingthe souls games are less refined precisely because of all the weapon options they have to account for
>>731016010>Say you are in your 30s and you don't have time to replay a 30-100 hour game 5 timesWhy are you playing games you supposedly have no time for and insisting that they shift from their main demographic to cater to you?Have you considered that maybe YOU are the problem here?
>>731016170I mean, why not play a fighting game then? Because I gotta agree, Sekiro is pretty boring.
>>731016170Because souls games are supposed to be rpgs where customization and player progression are the main gameplay focus.Sekiro would be more admirable in refining the combat if it was something worth refining in the first place. As it is you might as well just play something like DMC instead. Of course, unless you REALLY like rhythm games.
>>731016010I am in my 30s and I don't have time to just beat the same game over and overmy problem with that system is that it makes any choice about your character meaninglessif your choices mean that some encounters are easier or harder and you have to live with that, it makes the experience more unique to youand yes, that also means that a replay of the game whenever you do find the time will retain its freshness because you can choose to build in a different way and see how this new character's stuggles compare to your previous onebeing able to cast off those choices at the drop of a hat to optimize the next encounter shifts the focus to just completing the content
>>731013685Why do people pretend that they used anything other than Dante's Alastor and pistols or Raiden's katana? Beat-em-ups with a bunch of weapons are just full of filler. Everyone uses the main weapon and the ranged option (if there is one) and everything else is just put in the background.
>>731016186>you are the problem if you don't replay the game 5 times with a different shitty weapon each time, everyone does thatBuilds are fine, but there's no real reason why you should be committed to one for any longer than a combat encounter or level. It's like challenge-run kind of "fun" I guess, but most people don't find those that fun. Hell, you could just limit which weapons you allow yourself to use like a challenge run anyway. Nobody's forcing you to respec.
>>731016379I do play DMC as wellthat's probably a factor as to why I prefer Sekiro to Souls
>>731016796>but there's no real reason why you should be committed to one for any longer than a combat encounter or level.That's really just your own questionable opinion.
>>731016785>Why do people pretend that they used anything other than Dante's Alastor and pistols or Raiden's katana? Because we did, just because you're a basic retard doesn't mean others are.
>>730998257Yeah this is the obvious answer. It doesn’t make sense diegetically to be shoving rocks into your sword to make it better anyways. A flat character specific weapon tier, or maybe even just ditching it entirely and relying more directly on stat scaling, would be better.
>>731014854I mean you're correct as far as the 3rd phase goes but if you actually go back and watch him do the fight it's pretty messy. The type of people who really like Sekiro (myself included) tend to, I imagine, engage with the mechanics fully on all levels. You want the fight to be close to flawless and you want to truly understand all the parry timings and mechanics of a boss because that mastery is where the fun is. I would argue DSP did not master that fight at all but I'd love to see him attempt it again on a charmless demon bell run.Anyway, my point isn't to say he didn't beat the game or anything, my point is that for the people who enjoy Sekiro it isn't just about beating the game, it's about fully understanding the patterns and timings and such. That is where the depth of the game is. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AoKJ5pecRIQI mean look at this video, yes you can pretty much cheese Isshin if you follow what the dude does in this video but then you aren't really engaging with the mechanics at all, doesn't mean they aren't there
>>731016781So basically the only reason to prefer the DaS weapon system is for role playing / immersion, not actual gameplay / fun
>>731017345It's fun to mix and match different weapons together and tackle scenarios across a variety of playstyles. Of course this is only really true for DS2 and ER though.
>>730997480Include an upgrade system where titanite is numerious but you need special ones to ascend a certain tier. That way you can play test and quickly catch up any straggling gear in an area before deciding to proceed with a heavier investment.
>>731017345well having the choice to build in different ways is a reason to prefer itI just think respeccing cheapens the experienceI prefer Sekiro myself because of its focused polish and I like perfecting the fights
ProficiencyMabinogi had a fantastic implementation of this where each weapon had an upgrade tree that was comparable to another, with lower-tiered weapons getting some ridiculous max upgrades, up until raid boss powercreep made the game unplayable without chasing a carrot on a stick.
>>730997787>you arent allowed to criticize something since you can just make your own!
>>7309974801. Have fewer weapons with more distinct move sets. I'm not going to bother checking out the 30 barely different swords I pick up over the course of the game.2. Remove or greatly lower the minimum stat requirements for using weapons so people can actually equip most of the ones they pick up to try them out.3. Lower the amount of materials you need to upgrade weapons so that you're not locked in to 2-4 of them per playthrough unless you spend a huge amount of time grinding.4. Make it so that only the weapons you currently have in hand affect your equip load so that you can easily switch between weapons mid combat. Elden Ring has 3 slots per hand you can use but you're literally handicapping yourself if you actually utilize them.
>>73101021010 weapons are more than enough for a single character.
>>731017345It's more fun to have to fight your way out of a disadvantage than to just respec into the boss's kryptonite. This is why people who immediately rework their mechs in AC6 whenever they have trouble instead of playing around the disadvantage are pussies, and its why the select few levels of AC6 which are essentially pure gearchecks (Protect the Strider chiefly among those) are the worst levels in the game. Souls games were better when they were balanced around you never getting super hard countered by a fight because of how much more limited respecs were. The relative disrepancy between advantageous and disadvantageous builds was way lower, which meant you were having more fun more of the time regardless of what build you were rocking, and it also meant there was a more permanent shift in how you perceived the game upon each new build because you weren't respeccing all the fucking time. Nor did the game expect you to. This is why Elden Ring's difficulty curve is so fucking schizo.
>>730997480The problem isn't "playing cautiously over the difficulty", it's the automatic efficiency instinct to use the best combination of gear possible at any moment. Even if I can beat the game with something else which I might even like better, I will not do it because the game offers an infinitely better option freely. The only case I can contain this instinct is with summons. i do not consider this to be a personal problem but the problem of the game for a simple reason: it goes against intuitive sense to do something worse when you can do something better with no extra effort, even irl. The moment the devs add something better than my current option they are expecting me to use it. I did not make them add it, they made themselves add it. It was their choice to add it.
>>731018284I beat Godfrey hand-to-hand lol
>>730997480Just delete weapon upgrades as a concept. You already upgrade your stats, just make that be the main factor in determining weapon damage. Or bring back gems from Bloodborne so you have a clear "best" weapon but you can still try out new things you find. Hell they almost had this in ER with the swappable weapon arts. They could've made the socketed art upgrade the weapon. But then that whole system was dogshit anyway because all of the best arts were on uniques and not swappable. >>731004592>You could have a Longsword +2 somewhere in the world, and a Battleaxe +3 somewhere in the world, and so on.They did this in Demon's Souls and Dark Souls, you'd find preupgraded weapons that you could sidegrade or downgrade to move onto a different track. Then Dark Souls 2 had a few preupgraded weapons in its DLC but none in the base game. Then they just abandoned the whole concept despite adding hundreds of """new""" weapons.
>>731018108Equip load shouldn't exist either. Just another anti-fun mechanic that limits you to only being able to carry your armor and 1 sword around and not being able to use some of your own gear. And you have to waste level ups on that shit? awful, I hate it
>>731018108>4. Make it so that only the weapons you currently have in hand affect your equip load so that you can easily switch between weapons mid combat. Elden Ring has 3 slots per hand you can use but you're literally handicapping yourself if you actually utilize them.This is because those equip slots are supposed to represent the weapons your character physically has strapped onto his belt, they don't magically stop having mass just because they're on your back instead of in your hands.
finding more stones to upgrade your weapon is literally a non issue in Elden Ring, specially since by the end of the game you can just buy them at the finger maidens shop. on my first completely blind playthrou I started as dex using katana, then mid game changed to strength and faith and finished the game as int magic user. at no point I felt hindered because of weapon upgrades. like seriously wtf are you niggers even crying about now? lmao.at this point you have whinnied and cried and pissed your skirts about every single pixel in this game. Elden Ring is literally unironically the greatest game ever conceived by a large margin, get over it already.
It's funny in a dark way how Elden Ring's implementation of RPG mechanics was so jank all the zoomers are like >yo RPGs as a concept fucking suck, skyrimify this shit
Why's it a flaw?If they're completing the game and having fun enough to want to continue playing, seems like it's functioning as intended.If YOU want to keep hopping between weapons, maybe YOU should figure out a way to do that.I'm perfectly happy to make a build centered around one or three weapons.
>>731018727>Equip load shouldn't exist eitherThe smarter option would have equip load be tied exclusively to strength. Dexfags shouldn't be able to run around with heavy armour.
>find Legendary Divine Greatsword of the God-King 90% of the way through a game>it's weaker than my fully upgraded starting longsword>have to dump an entire games worth of accumulated upgrade material into just to be able to test if it's worth using or not>if I don't wind up liking it I've just wasted all my materials and won't even get the chance to use them on some other item I might find even later that I actually could have liked>just stick with the longsword for the whole game due to FOMOThis is why the current upgrade material system sucks. I'm not sure what exactly they could do to replace it but something needs to change. Maybe instead of upgrading individual items, you upgrade your characters skill with certain types of weapons. Like you raise your 1 handed sword skill to +10 and now every 1 handed sword effectively has +10 stats the moment you find it. That still requires you to invest in a build but doesn't restrict your ability to experiment with new items that could fit that build.
>>731018954Forget to mention that>Legendary Divine Greatsword of the God-King 90%Is found in some random cave in the middle of nowhere.
>>731002705Then there's you, the screeching incompetent who can only complain, never create, and who lashes out when the truth is gently laid before you. t. NTA
>>731018383I'd much prefer if they went back to how DeS handled weapon upgrading because I prefer the concept of weapon trees to linear upgrades but you're full of shit>Then they just abandoned the whole concept despite adding hundreds of """new""" weapons.One of the (many) reasons PVPers seethe so much at ER is because just talking to Rogier in the Round Table makes him drop his +8 Rapier on you and fucks up your PVP range.Similarly, Patches drops a +7 spear if you kill him and Edgar will drop a +8 Banished Knight Halberd.Then the DLC added the Stone Sheathed Sword which can be turned back and forth into two different weapons at their relative altars, so no, they did not abandon anything.>>731018727Nah, equip load must exist in these games for a long list of reasons.
>>731018954Just make the distribution of upgrade materials better, dawg>DS1>Andre sells titanite shards in his shop>Titanite shards are found everywhere throughout the Undead Parish>The hollows immediately outside Andre's shop all drop Titanite shards>You're expected to have a +5 weapon to fight the GargoylesWaow the upgrade path is so much less punishing when the merchants/drops/enemies are actually in sync with each other. How come you guys are always like WE NEED TO BURN THIS WHOLE SYSTEM DOWN instead of just admitting that Elden Ring, specifically and uniquely, is the problem?
>make sharp wooden stick>find lump of metal>"wtf metal isnt sharp why do i need to sharpen it the world is wrong"just stop playing vidya you fucking shitters
>>731019006I thought you faggots claimed there was no incentive to explore? make up your minds already lol.
>>730997480Adopt the Guild Wars (and Wukong) system of allowing you to reallocate your stat distribution whenever you see it. Make multiple mandatory bosses that hard counter certain playstyles, thereby encouraging the player to try out new weapons and builds. Weapons should not be upgradable. They are set weapons that can only be utilized with specific stats.
>>731019139>Nah, equip load must exist in these games for a long list of reasons.it did not exist in Bloodborne and it was all the better for it
>>731003230I think this is a great point and it relates to alot of games, not just Souls.When a game's balance completely falls apart in the last 1/3rd of the game, this is often considered "bad" but like...if the game is a power fantasy about progression, this is MEANT to happen. You spend the first part of the game struggling, in the second part you're getting a handle of things and putting distinct builds and strategies together, and in the third part you are murdering everything.A good game anticipates this and raises the stakes, but many games just like to raise the stakes SLIGHTLY and then demand your character remain balanced.With Elden Ring especially they want you to do the Dark Souls thing of being a dude doggedly taking down the remants of great beings, but in ER it doesn't work. You should FEEL like an ascended being by the end of the game who is going head to head with equally in their prime foes, and there are plenty of ways to achieve that even wacky shit like making your character physically bigger, removing softcaps instead of adding them, etc.
>>731019406Maybe if you seriously believe Bloodborne isn't a dogshit game.
>>730997480Remove weapon upgrading entirely
I always put the game in offline, use cheat engine and give myself the needed grinding materials.I also do this in Monster Hunter.I like the game design and gameplay enough, I'm not a slave who wants to slave away to grind. Sorry not sorry.
>>731019446what kind of dumb retard would believe that
>>730997480there's nothing wrong with playing cautiously, especially in a hard game. that's the player's decision. freedom of how to approach a problem in these games is one of the reasons why they're good. and there's nothing wrong with a specific playstyle becoming the most common because there is always going to be one. once you try to force the player into playing a specific way, that is a bad thing. as for people using the same weapon, that's easy, just increase the amount of upgrade material. elden ring only really has this issue with normal weapons though. despite unique weapon upgrades intended to be rarer, i always end up getting like 2-3 fully leveled up ones by the time i reach farum azula. meanwhile i'm lucky to have a single normal weapon of similar strength at the same time. they must have realized this for the DLC since they can't give you enough upgrade stones of both types. too bad that comes too little too late. since most people will be able to just buy all upgrade mats by the time they tackle the DLC.
>>731019160That doesn't address the issue at all, and people sticking with their starting weapon the entire game has been a problem since DeS, and plenty of other games from other companies long before. You need to invest upgrade materials into an item just to test if it's worth using to know if it's worth investing upgrade materials into it. It's a catch 22 and it's not fun, and even being able to grind for more materials hardly makes it any better.
>>731019494Only dumb retards think BB is anything but a shitty game.
>>731019538Another day, another midwit mad at the superiority of Bloodborne.
>>731019501It's funny really since all you have to do is let players upgrade a "Soul Stone" or something equivalent they can just slot into a weapon like an Ash.Then, have weapon upgrades still exist as ways to reduce FP cost, stamina usage, weight etc. and other things that are just QOL instead of directly affecting the damage curve.Now you have MORE customisation, more reasons to explore for upgrades, etc.
>>731019693What superiority?The game is ugly as sin, has zero fucking enemy variety, builds are basically nonexistent, most weapons play exactly the same despite having a tiny selection and it's THE game that started the rollslop trend you people love to complain about.There's a reason the game sold like shit, because it's not good.
>>731019501That's because your build is meant to be a commitment. You aren't meant to be constantly changing weapons. They want you to identify with your weapon as a semi-permanent part of your build. That's part of playing a role as a character in the role playing game. The NPCs don't change their gear every other arena and so neither do you. You pick a weapon based around whatever moveset Clicks the hardest, hence why oldfags constantly talk about their "weaponfus," and you sacrifice time to bring its damage up to par. You are playing a role.In turn, the game isn't balanced around the assumption that you are frequently respeccing and changing weapons to brute force through different encounters like you're Dante from the Devil May Cry series. This is where Elden Ring fucks up because it absolutely wants you to do this but also doesn't give you nearly enough resources to actually do it. It's also so much fucking bigger of a game that the FOMO of hoarding these limited resources is 5x stronger than DeS or DS1 (because the game is 5x bigger). This is also meant to foster replayability, because you playing most of the game with a handful of weapons encourages playing the game over again with a different weapon. That's an easy ask in old From games which could be cleared "organically" in only 10ish hours. That's not how it works for Elden Ring where each "organic" run (meaning no any% speedrun strats) is like 50 hours long.
>>731019851>UglyWrong>VarietyAesthetic consistency > Fromsoft's usual grab bag of random shit thrown together. Thank Japan Studio for that one (RIP)>BuildsI knew you were a poise shitter. Did you get mad at the one shield in the game making fun of you? Kek. >Most weapons play exactly the sameNo they don't. >You peopleTypical midwit, making up enemies in his head. >There's a reason the game sold like shitThat's just the Stufio Japan curse. Make kino, be punished for it.
>>731019095peak midwit redditor
>>730997480It's the replay motivator
>>731019994>This is where Elden Ring fucks up because it absolutely wants you to do thisNo it doesn't.>That's an easy ask in old From games which could be cleared "organically" in only 10ish hours.You're only going to do that with DeS, and maybe BB because both are short and easy as piss, but it's not true for any other game, especially DS2 and DS3.ER has the advantage of being 90% optional so once you know where to go for things it takes very little time to get whatever you want outside of some notable exceptions like DLC weapons, some of which will be addressed in the upcoming DLC.Meanwhile in something like DS3 entire builds are fucked over by how exceedingly linear it is and how you're actually forced to go through 80% of the game's content in any run, something that doesn't happen in ER.
>>731020261Peak talentless shitter incapable of anything but whining.
>>731019501they did it best in demons souls because every world's beginning level is scaled to be beatable with a base weapon, which allows you to play around with different weapons before committing. that game also didn't really encourage you to upgrade your weapons as much anyway and it was hardly necessary. in most cases, fully maxing a weapon in demons souls was something you had to go out and try to do instead of how all the later games made it to where it would happen naturally as you progress. ... i say "in most cases" because there's a couple of instances where you can get a beast weapon for basically no effort at all (hello meat cleaver).
>>731020315Yes it does. Anyone who claims that a game that hands you 30 respecs and doesnt expect you to use them is a fool. >Rennala as a mage: *seething and coping*>Rennala as a str build: lol, lmao evenER's content being 90% filler is part of the problem and why I said no any% speedrun strats. >You spend 100 hours on your first run exploring all the copypasted side dungeons and lose all motivation to ever play it again>Versus>Do 100 1 hour playthroughs where you skip everything except the 1 irrelevant side dungeon you haven't explored yet on the offchance it has something in it that you want (it doesn't).
>>731020362raped midwit
>>731020315Any% glitchless in DaS2 and 3 is under an hour, what are you talking about? It’s boring (especially 3) because of the linearity but you can rush any weapon and upgrade path very easily.
>>731020194What aesthetic consistency does BB have outside of being a boring gray and brown mess with some blue and red once in a while?Most of your enemies are furry werewolves or some flavor of insect, the game is so egregious in its copypasting that even fucking Lawrence is just another fucking Cleric beast fight (but spicy this time), nevermind how nearly every boss is copypasted somewhere else, but I guess it's fine when BB does it?>I knew you were a poise shitter.What does poise have to do with builds you fucking retard?You can't even choose what to use in which limb in BB, you're locked into rigid equipment setups and to add insult to injury the vast majority of weapons work exactly the same with Trick=single target DPS and Untricked=AoE with a select couple of exception like the Tonitrus or the Reiterpallasch, the fucking Saw Cleaver/Spear alone are already so much better than anything else in the game you don't even have a reason to bother with the rest of the weapons, nevermind how there's other cases of weapons with copypasted moveset even outside of those two.>That's just the Stufio Japan curseNo, that's BB being a shitty half baked game exactly like Sekiro, which has nothing to do with Studio Japan.
>>730997480The upgrade system either shouldn't exist or should massively be paired back.
>>731020536>>Rennala as a mage: *seething and coping*You mean the boss that crumbles in seconds to Carian slicer alone?>ER's content being 90% filler is part of the problemIt's far from being a problem, it's arguably one of its greatest strengths.>>731020773>Any% glitchless in DaS2 and 3 is under an hourSo is ER, what is your point?>It’s boring (especially 3) because of the linearity but you can rush any weapon and upgrade path very easily.No you can't, not in DS3 because several weapons let alone spells are locked behind the literal end of the game, FTH builds being the most miserable of all to make in DS3 since ALL of the good FTH stuff that isn't Dhorys' Gnawing is locked to the endgame.
