I've come to the realization that this franchise isn't meant to have mainstream appeal. Your average Sonic game, even to a mega-autist such as myself with an unshakable loyalty to the IP, demands the player to perfect hundreds of microscopic inputs, with only the most slim window for readjustment, to achieve the smoothest and most efficient run of a level. I'm half filtered by an obsession I've had since childhood. Sonic exists for aspie gods and aspie gods only, and those aspies have my eternal respect.
>>731011493>I've come to the realization that this franchise isn't meant to have mainstream appeal.But he does have it. That's why he gets to live while Crash is dead.
>>731012879Solidarity, Crashbro. But Sonic will always filter the average gamer after a minute of gameplay, even if his games always sell well.
>>731012879Crash is dead because of corporate mismanagement and more recently developers that are actually malicious.Not because he doesn't have appeal.
>>731013171>always sell well.but they don't.that's the thing.Sonic is immortal.no amount of terrible games or mediocre shows can kill him.
>>731013431It's more that no amount of pretending there's only terrible Sonic games will magically make the franchise retroactively bad as a whole and unsuccessful.
It appeals to small children and the terminal fanatics. Sometimes they make a good game that normal people like, too.
>>731013378Crash is dead because Activision wanted a 10x RoI instead of 3x. I'm so fucking tired of people pretending the issue with 4 was "Tawna looks WOKE" when she wasn't even in any games aside from the first one. Or that 100% Completion being handled differently made the game bad.
>>731013606idk, anon.think about HOW LONG ago those "great" Sonic games were.yeah, he had some big hits. 24+ years ago.
>>731013431>Sonic is immortal.I agree, but as far as I'm aware the series has never financially flopped. The almighty dollar is typically the deciding factor in a flawed franchise's continuation. With that said, a quick search suggests Crash 4 sold decently well too, so pour one out for the disrespected bandicoot I guess.
>>731014214>buh muh woek dawnaNobody actually complains about this shit beyond the redesigns across the board being active contempt for the series.Nitrofueled releasedDon't be a faggot.
>>731014263>think about HOW LONG ago those "great" Sonic games were.Shadow Generations was like two years ago, right? And then Mania was about 9 iirc.
>>731014263Ahem. And yes, it counts. The Shadow portion has brand new gameplay and level design.
>>731014320>Nobody actually complains about this shit beyond the redesigns across the board being active contempt for the series.Oh fuck off, you disingenuous cunt. Every single fucking thread that even so much as mentions Crash anymore brings this shit up. Don't piss on me and tell me it's raining.>She's also in the kart racer remake/sequel with literally every single character in the entire franchiseEither you're being a ridiculous pedant for its own sake and ignoring the actual point of what was being said (bring up Crash Boom Bang while you're at it, if we're ignoring context) or you're genuinely engaging with the idea that Tawna's redesign ruined the game right after refuting the idea that people say shit like that. In either case you're a retard.
>>731014360>game released in 2024>game released in 2017>before that...?that's what i mean. one decent game every seven years would not be enough to keep literally any other mascot game alive.>>731014268>as far as I'm aware the series has never financially flopped.anon, there have been plenty of Sonic games that flopped. every show he's ever had has been cancelled, and the only one that didn't end on a cliffhanger is maybe Sonic X.
>>731011493I wouldn't go that far, but to an extent it's true. Mainstream series need to appeal to the lowest common denominator for max playerbase size, which is why 2D Mario became considerably more forgiving past the NES era, 3D Mario was slowed down with a significantly trimmed moveset past SM64, and even spinoffs like Mario Kart became increasingly casualized through things like automatic mini turbos and increased item spam. Smaller series like Sonic and Mega Man, or even other Nintendo platformers like 2D Donkey Kong/Metroid/Kirby, mostly either stayed the course or got more complex with future releases - great for core series fans, not so much for growing the playerbase.>but boost-simplifies gaining speed, yes, but pits, spikes, and alternate paths can be either nearly or completely unreactable if spamming it, and outside of some specific jumps it isn't outright skipping over things like you could do with Tails in older games.
>>731014614>Every single fucking thread that even so much as mentions Crash anymore brings this shit up.Yeah and anyone seriously posting in there figures it's a Toys For Bob employee trying to dismiss all the other problems with the game across the board.There is literally nobody serious who is saying>Crash it's about time only bad because woke tawna.It's like there's actual shit that's fairly bad in forces, but nobody talks about it because the Lost World air friction doesn't start making the game shit the bed until half way through.They just babble incessantly about Sand Hill.
>>731013431>Sonic is immortal.only until we cure autism
>>731014726>one decent game every seven years would not be enough to keep literally any other mascot game alive.Ok but that's not what you said at all.>he had some big hits. 24+ years ago.Sonic is absolutely kept afloat by brand power, but he's also still getting good games every once in a while. It's not "Sonic was good in the 90s then he sucked," it's "Sonic used to be a slam dunk every time and now he only manages it once a console generation." Only real difference between Sonic and Mario these days is that Nintendo is even more protective of new Mario platformers post NSMB.
>>731014827>Yeah and anyone seriously posting in there figures it's a Toys For Bob employee trying to dismiss all the other problems with the game across the board.>"It happens but actually it's a secret conspiracy so it DOESN'T COUNT."Lying ass faggot.
>>731014952>Ok but that's not what you said at all.because even the two games you give as example are contentious. you didn't change my mind the "consistently great" games were over 24 years ago, i'm just being nice to your opinion.>Sonic is absolutely kept afloat by brand powerglad we agree.>good games every once in a whilethat's what i'm saying. those "once in a while" games that aren't nearly universally derided don't really come that often.>"Sonic used to be a slam dunk every timebut even then he wasn't. not literally every time, just look at the GG games' sales. i would instead say"The last time Sonic was consistently good was in the '90s."and the '90s were a long time ago.
>>731014754Ok but 2D DK also sells 10M+ units, while the other franchises you listed are doing great if they break 2M.
>>731015001>Someone disingenuously using it as a thought terminating cliche for any sort of criticism of the game is totally the same thing as someone sincerely holding that opinionTim Sweeny "Astroturfing is valid free speech" tier retardation
>>731012879>HeyRougewhoarethose guys overrr there?>I don't know them at all Shadow>AND I DO NOT CARE
>>731015185>because even the two games you give as example are contentious.Yeah, by contrarian faggots. I don't like Sonic, but Mania is a fantastic game. The worst you can say about it is that it reuses old sprite art.You sound like a very specific breed of fanatic instead of a person who just plays video games and you keep changing the bounds of your argument in order to avoid acknowledging you said something fucking stupid.
Thoughts on Frontiers?
>>731015269>Btw I'm not doing that right now by insisting it's the dev team and therefore they are bad and evil and their game sucks, refusing to actually talk about the content or quality of the game, instead diverting to a weird boogieman.Who the fuck do you think you're fooling, dude?
>>731015185>Sonic Chaos is the same thing as Shadow Generations.Come on.Nobody anywhere thinks that. The GG games were the mobile apps/Roblox games of their time.
>>731014952>Sonic used to be a slam dunk every time and now he only manages it once a console generation.To be fair, and I believe you were implying this already, every good Sonic game we get now is a slam dunk that was worth the wait. Patience is always rewarded here.
>>731015407>I don't like Sonic, but Mania is a fantastic game.i avoided Mania for years because i felt like i had already played that game 4 years prior. it was called Sonic After the Sequel.though i admit that isn't entirely fair to Mania. Mania is just a Sonic celebration. ATS is like an actual new mainline 2D Sonic game.
>>731015494>no u!!Pointing out that someone is using a thought terminating cliche to disingenuously argue online is not in and of itself a thought terminating cliche.I get the absolute state of /v/ these days, but go be retarded somewhere else.
>>731015407>I don't like Sonic, but Mania is a fantastic game.I rec'd it to a few people who never played a Sonic game and they all enjoyed it.SEGA should do a better job of advertising the top/bottom/middle paths as hard/easy/normal mode because then it forces you to not just fall into a 'hold right to win' mindset.>>731015470They hired that man + fell for the open world meme + dogshit dialogue + stuck with rails/boosting.5/10.
>>731015470The open world is fun to run around and fight bad guys in, but the cyberworld stages feel very tacked on. Good, but not great.
>>731015617My point is more that the big projects came out faster back then and always worked out. These days, they're spread further apart and you get more misses than hits. But he still does get good games at a fairly even pace. Every franchise is slower these days. Using "the gap is so long" says more about game development taking forever than the game quality.TL;DR, Sonic is absolutely way less consistent post-Sega console exclusivity, and he's had some shit fucking games, but the idea that his glory days are entirely in the past is a meme even Sega falls for. I'll take Shadow Generations over pretty much any other 3D Sonic, easy. Mania is a top tier 2D platformer. Etc.
>>731015407>you keep changing the bounds of your argumentnope. it's still right where it was in the beginning. the last time Sonic was consistently good was the '90s and the '90s were a long time ago.Sonic is immortal, no amount of terrible games or mediocre shows can kill him.
>>731015750>Pointing out that someone is using a thought terminating clicheNo I meant this, over here>>731014827this post is literally the thing you're pretending youre incensed about. I'm not retarded enough to fall for it. You aren't stupid enough to fail to recognize that.Fuck off.
>>731015835>Using "the gap is so long" says more about game development taking forever than the game quality.but it's not like no Sonic games were released in those gaps. it's that they were bad.
>>731015835>big projects came out faster back then and always worked outhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DaR957nAyUc
>>731015839>it's still right where it was in the beginning.>the last time Sonic was consistently goodUnfortunately, Shylock, you didn't start out saying "consistently."You added that later. Quit kvetching.
>>731015985>You're not allowed to notice I'm using a thought terminating cliche, that's what you're accusing me of doingWe've been over this, it's not.>I won't "fall" for itYeah because you're a disingenuous shitweed fuck off.
>>731016104again, that's just me trying to respect your opinion. i still say it's been 24+ years.
>>731016031And good. More bad than good, but also good.I know mascot platformer fans are autistic, but come on. The idea that he doesn't get great games anymore/it's been shit since [insert whenever the poster turned 13] is stupid and reductive. He's got the same batting average now as he had back in 2004. He was still getting good games back then, as he is now. This isn't difficult.
>>731016191>"Actually Mania bad but I won't tell you why, but I totally liked the old games"Uh huh.
>>731016102>Sonic is absolutely way less consistent post-Sega console exclusivityDamn, if only you could read.
>>731016257>The idea that he doesn't get great games anymorehe definitely doesn't get games that are universally loved like he did in the '90s. my point is, this shoddy hit schedule would (and did) kill every other mascot.hence his immortality.Mario stuck around because he had good games. Sonic, uuuhh...just imagine how POWERFUL Sonic would be with that kind of staying power AND good games.
>>731016320I mean me personally having waiting since Mania had Denuvo and Sonic 3 AIR came out in the mean time, I didn't really like mania as much when I finally got around to playing it.
>>731016320but i literally explained my thoughts on Mania itthttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i67yxYjfLGA
>>731016163>Refuses to engage with the point, talk about the game, talk about the developer, or in any way discuss anything at all.>"Oy vey, anon, I'm just deeply shook that you would not engage in an honest discussion!"Concession accepted.Please, continue to show people your very real concerns.
>>731016469See, this is a real opinion. I respect it. You're based for disagreeing and just talking like a normal person.>>731016519This is a fake opinion from a shitposting faggot. He will never just talk like a normal person. He is a scourge upon all of us.
>>731016564>You're a jew for noticing I'm being disingenuous and not pretending It's About Time is only bad because tawna woke is a legitimate opinion anyone actually holds and not some made up clown bullshit to try and pretend criticism of the game is illegitimate.All the while none of this is going to make anyone actually like the game.
>>731016662and this is the post of a sperg having a fit because he thinks someone isn't sucking Mania's dick hard enoughlol
>>731016410The 90s games weren't universally loved, though. At the time, there were plenty of people who called Sonic flashy bullshit, bad games made purely for spectacle. Your entire argument hinges on the idea that the opinions of Sega fans of the time in the Anglosphere were the totality of thought on these games. They weren't.>Sonic would sell like 20M copies if every game was good.Yeah, probably.
>>731016770>The 90s games weren't universally loved, though.and i'm sure you're able to provide an example of a bad Sonic review from back then, right?
>>731016743>"I think this guy who said it was lame and not cool because he found other experiences more engaging and was put off by IRL circumstances is based."Truly the words of an anon who gets mad if a game's dick isn't sucked.Like I said, you're a shitposter. Begone. You have nothing of value to contribute. Come back when you have real opinions and talk like a human being.
>>731016895>"I thinkbut you sure don't comprehend
>>731011493>It's another "bash Sonic for things every other video game also does" episode
>>731016836The Czechs gave it a 75, thinking it was "just ok", for an example of the very first game. There were plenty of Euro publications that just weren't very hot on Sonic, even within the confines of Sega focused magazines where it was going to get a boost.But I'm sure this isn't a good enough example, and you'll move the goalposts, placing yet more onus on me to prove yet more definitively that opinions on the 90s games weren't a monolith.
Sonic didn't need to chase non-gamers for lack of a better term. I've seen too many people say Sonic should focus less on video games and more on movies and other shit that doesn't make up the bulk of the franchise outside of merchandise, and I really want Sonic to go back to its actual roots, Sonic 1 wasn't just a marketing gimmick, there were actual mechanics behind how the game worked and it felt great to play once you learned them.
>>731017250>implying normies and journos play those supposed "every other video game[s]"The skill ceiling for Sonic is a bit higher than Mario.
>>731016836>>731017435GamesMaster from the UK gave Sonic 2 a 65% and called it a disappointment, unworthy of being a sequel, if you need English reviews specifically.
>>731017827uhhhh doesnt count!
https://youtu.be/pVI6Agm1-kY
>>731017930>sonic adventure was goodwow way to undermine your whole point
>>731017435>>731017827>Sonic was never consistently goodwouldn't this strengthen my point that he's immortal even more?
>>731018110>games that are universally loved like he did in the '90sYou were wrong.They weren't.Sorry, champ.
>>731017827>If you've never played a Sonic game before, you might be impressed. We have and we weren't.
>>731017827also i sure would like to read that "Word from the Editor" section but your image is too low quality and this issue isn't archived
>>731018170>no amount of terrible games can kill himlooks like i was 100% on the money, chief.thanks for providing evidence!
>>731018325Then please, treat yourself to the final tally on this SCATHING four page review of Sonic & Knuckles by French magazine CD Consoles. ~2.3 stars.Universally praised.
>>731018376>shifting goal posts
>>731018376>The games I said kick ass and are universally loved are actually bad now that it has been proven that different people have different opinions.You don't even try. Pathetic.
>>731018325>and this issue isn't archivedIm probably being baited into doing the work for you but I already had it open to read for myself so whatever.https://retrocdn.net/images/1/18/GamesMaster_UK_001.pdfor its in this pile if the direct link gets rejected.https://segaretro.org/Sonic_the_Hedgehog_2_(Mega_Drive)/Magazine_articles
>>731018430>shifting goalposts by repeating my original point word for word
>>731018501and yet my point still stands strong (>>731013431)
>>731018579He's an iPad child desperate for attention.
>>731011493Normies can still play Sonic games, but they'll never really get it like we do. Sonic has a bunch of other things going for him besides gameplay though, that's why he's still mainstream. Sonic himself is probably one of the best designed video game characters ever made.
>>731020263He's certainly one of the most attractive characters ever thought up
