Medicine is also boring as shit, especially if you can't assign it to a companion doing it for you

>>731014071
>skills
>carrying capacity

>>731014353
There are games where you can level up a stat that only affects carrying capacity.

>>731014071
Yea RPGs should only have the skill homosexuality so OP can play it

>>731014071
Neanderthal thread.
Sapes get out.

Lockpicking, pickpocketing and other banditry stuff should all be combined into one thievery skill in order to be fun. Having one character get better at just opening doors and chests while another is learning powerful spells or something is lame.

>>731014353
Elin/Elona says hi

Speech is bad

Dividing it up into intimidation, persuasion, deception is good. Or just letting you choose between different dialogue options and some being better than others

>>731014353
Packing is a skill

>>731014071
Female warriors of any kind.

>>731015795
No substats is bad design, unless in an extremely abstacted system.
Dickassery and good reputation should help with deception, good reputation and charisma with persuasion. Being a 18/00 barbarian helps with intimidation.l

>>731016050
Games need more substats with much less opportunity to minmax

>>731014071
>attack

>>731014353
If it's related to something else it works for me. Like Morrowind, you can have all the top armor which is heavy but your movement speed and jumping ability are compromised for it.
Therefore having armor be a positive but with negatives, making things like light armor and cloth a legitimate alternative.
Unlike say Skyrim where there is no benefit to traveling light nor using light armor over heavy armor.

>>731014071
Carrying capacity makes sense, not only from a design stand point of not wanting your players to be able to grab every single object in an area to sell, but also because every single one of those objects is data that now has to be tracked in a "container" i.e the player. This makes load times longer. So it ends up being much better for things if you remove the incentive to hoard and remove this data from being loaded.

For me the skills in KCD2 are near perfect
>hunting, nature and medicine are combined into survival
>lockpicking and pickpocketing are combined into thievery
>maces and axes are combined into heavy weapon skill
>repairs and blacksmithing are combined into craftsmanship
>speech only covers persuasion and coercion. your gear, outfit, muscles and charisma determines intimidation, presence, domination, impression and more
>There is a general "warfare" skill in addition to more specific skills such as swords, longsword, etc. So you still retain your high warfare skill when switching from a weapon you have high skill with to one you have low skill with

I just finished the game with max in every non-combat skill except drinking because I found every skill to be useful except that one

>>731014071
All casual uses of magic. As in if the game allows you to play a magic caster and one of your basic skills is FIREBALL or LIGHTNING it's dogshit and should not exist. Magic should be so powerful that i can kill anyone or destroy a building in an instant, but it should always come at great cost and never be a basic ability. You should either have to prepare a great amount of expensive materials to use it or sacrifice something important. Like a mage who cooks up a literal tornado of fire but it nearly kills him, maybe knocks him out and requires him to recover for days. Magic should never trivialize the theme of the world.

>>731016763
>For me the skills in KCD2 are near perfect
And then it ruins everything with the dogshit gear progression.

First of all, common bandits shouldn't be wearing armor at all. Maybe a gambeson or a damaged chain shirt. Simply because any soldier who deserted and took his armor with him would be looking to join a mercenary company, not robbing travelers. So the only way for the player to get armor would be by earning it through quests or buying from an armorsmith.

Which brings me to my second point, armor should need to be fitted by an armorsmith before it can be worn without penalty. Anyone who has ever worn even just a chain shirt at a renaissance fair or something knows that it's really uncomfortable because it wasn't fitted to you.

Thirdly the whole combination of gambeson, chain shirt, chest piece, coif, collar is stupidly strong, as it should be, but it also should be very hard to get. But the way it is right now you will be fully geared after killing a couple bandits. And since we're adhering to reality we also know that plate armor is the peak. So as soon as you get your first couple plate pieces, that's it in terms of progression. And in KCD2 that is at the end of the trosky map, which isn't even halfway through the game.

Next thing is that the time you spend fully armored just doesn't make sense. While traveling, Henry shouldn't be wearing his full getup. Gambeson, chain shirt, helmet and coat. Anything more than that would become very uncomfortable and exhausting very quickly - even on horseback. There should be an option to automatically equip specific armor sets for specific events. In town(max charisma), traveling and for combat.

The only way to kill an armored person should be by ramming a dagger into an exposed weakspot, by exhausting him and choking him to death or by causing extreme blunt trauma to the head. So exhausting an opponent, knocking him to the ground and executing him should be an option, but it isn't.

>>731016387
I didn't say carrying capacity shouldn't exist. I don't think it should be a specific stat you level. It's fine if it gets higher along with your strength for example, because a str character is likely to wear heavy armor.

>>731016152
Increases in main stats should trickle down to useful substats so you always feel good about increases.

>>731014071
>crafting skills
feel too mandatory, and are better replaced by a solid economy
>separate armor skills
might as well just have one, but with penalties on weight

>>731017429
>separate armor skills
I never understood armor skills. I can understand limiting a wizard's ability to use heavy armor, but leveling up how well you wear it seems silly. If you had to divide up armor in this way, maybe you could increase heavy armor skill through strength, light armor through dexterity, and medium armor through both

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>>731016820
Not quite imho. Good fantasy should include different races. Races who treat magic like bread and steel like magic. Fire resistant lizards who spit for acid damage but die to prolonged exposure to heat or cold. Insect like warrior races who are only good for breeding and killing (humies).
Imagine being a being of elemental flame who can shoot flames from his hands as a normal action but needs trusted friends to protect it from a nasty goblin or two from dousing it with few buckets of water.
The ideal party composition is three niggas in a row supported by a mage, rogue and healer.

>>731016820
I hate magicfags that think this.
>Hurr durr I'm a wizard, I should be able to explode any brain I want.
Where's the fun in that? Everyone else is learning to hit harder with their sword, but the wizardtroons always expect to be demigods

>>731017902
>Imagine being a being of elemental flame who can shoot flames from his hands
What does that persons daily life look like? I was talking about a mostly grounded medieval low fantasy setting and you barge in with your extra dimensional elemental mutant. My example was from the POV of a human who just happens to be born with a magical ability and has to deal with it every day. Control it, resist the urge to use it every time he gets angry, Like "oh no, i'm caught in a blizzard in the middle of the woods miles from town! what can i do?! oh, i'm a MAGE. i can just LIGHT A FUCKING TREE ON FIRE AND BE GOOD LOL!" that is what magic should never be like.

>>731018157
>the smith is charging outrageous prices for horse shoes
>i could make him explode
>but i would probably fall to the ground unconscious right after
>the townsfolk would hear the ruckus and string me up before i wake up
Using magic should always come at great cost.

>>731014071
Charisma should not exist as a stat at all.

>>731016820
Dogshit retarded opinion.
Magic should be everywhere and omnipresent. The world itself should feel mystical and magical.
It should not be rare, it should not by unknown by the masses. Everyone should know and be familiar with magic to some extent.

>>731014071
>>lockpick
>>speech
>>barter
Way to make the thief/rogue worthless
Table top rpgs aren’t always centered combat, utility is an important aspect of actually playing a role. No one’s power fantasy of playing a thief is being an assassin, otherwise they’d play an assassin
Most games forget this so the thief ends up being the most half baked class in the game so i guess thats why its bad, but they should try harder to make it good

>>731018937
Most people on /v/ seem to think that gameplay is strictly equal to combat.

>>731018925
>Magic should be everywhere and omnipresent.
Then it can't be powerful. If everybody is almighty the whole setting falls apart. Nothing matters anymore.

>>731015795
Speech would be good if having high speech just make it more obvious which dialog options will work better on each specific NPC you are talking with. Speech as an automatic way to bypass any situation is retarded.

>>731018741
>What does that persons daily life look like?
This is where the imagination part comes in. Being fascinated with the endless drive of the others to consume meat that is superficially the same as the fleshlings. Wondering why they don't spend most of their waking hours meditating to aggregate elemental particles of your own composition from the environment. Not having a clue why they place so much value on glittering soft metals yet not understanding the true value of power crystals that have intrinsic value everywhere in the planes.
And of course admiring the exotic abilities of the corporeals that effectively amount to endless use of complex telekinesis and transmutation magic.

>>731018937
Lockpicking shouldn't be gone, it just shouldn't be a single skill. Leveling up and the only thing your character gets good at is opening a slightly more complicated chest is boring. If it doesn't make you better at more things, like pickpocketing or maybe sneaking then it's disappointing.

I think speech is completely lame if it's the only dialogue related stat. When has anyone ever played a singleplayer RPG and not made their first character good at speech? It gives better rewards, gives more quest solutions, gives you the optimal path in dialogue without having to think about what to choose and sometimes even unlocks other endings. It's basically a must if you want to experience what the game has to offer.

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>>731014071
Can I dual-class?

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>>731019150
Then the normal changes.
We already know what a world without magic looks like, we live in it.
Fantasy is interesting when it isn't our world. When things are actually fantastical.
There is nothing interesting about a world where magic exists and no one knows about it except a select few weirdos.
Your butcher should use a sharpening spell and have an enchanted apron that doesn't get bloody, your carriage man should use spells to keep his hippogriffs tame when in town, mothers should cast charms on their little children to keep them from running away, a Lord's standing retinue of knights should all be spellblades.

That is what makes a world fantastical. Not, "everyone is a boring and oversimplified version of a Western European Medieval dude, and there are also wizards running around"

>>731019678
>anon jr, where the hell are you?
>mooooooooom
>WHAT?!
>you broke your leg AGAIN? and now what? you want me to just heal you again?
>argh, mom, please. it huuuurts.
>and you got your brand new shorts all bloody!
>that's it. no supper for you. *zap*schwiiing* now go to your room.
Congratulations, you turned the whole world into a joke. Nobody dies anymore because there is at least a couple people in town who can just heal any injury or affliction.

>>731019678
you're veering dangerously into the Syndrome direction

>>731020106
No one dies today and the world keeps turning.

>>731020106
You forget about people like yourself who would go around murdering and hurting people just to prove a point.

>>731019678
>There is nothing interesting about a world where magic exists and no one knows about it except a select few weirdos.
>Your butcher should use a sharpening spell
NTA but completely disagree. If magic is easily accessible then I just start thinking "why isn't everyone learning this lvl 1 coercion spell and using it often" Also, no fantasy setting I have seen has made sense with a world like that. Guards couldn't be expected to guard anything, because there exist a bunch of people who can fly to the window, or turn into an ant and crawl through the cracks. People like you don't think at all about how the world stops making sense when reality altering magic is easily available. Architecture needs to change, the economy, the flow of information, everything. Having access to healers and revivers changes the world so much that it's unfathomable, but fantasy nerds don't think twice about it

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Even tho pic related is kinda autistic, it's actually the perfect system. Skills affecting each other and add up to a capstone feat. Nothing is useless and nothing is overpowered because everything contributes to everything.

>>731020106
Having the knowledge of useful spells and abilities relevant to your daily needs does not mean having total access to every spell ever.
You today don't know how to do a million technical tasks, why would a world with magic be otherwise?
Every setting with magic acknowledges that casting spells is more complex than just saying hocus pocus and summoning your ideal succubus waifu.

>>731020324
>be bandit
>lone traveler coming towards me
>let him pass and follow him
>ambush him an hour later
>2 weeks later the wizard police kicks down my door
>they found my victim last night, resurrected him and he projected a memory of me to their minds
You see how fucking stupid magic for everyone is, right?

>>731020331
This assumes that all magic is equally as easy as any other.
But you reference spell levels like its D&D, where different levels of magic have different levels of power and complexity to ever learn.
Charm Person is a level 1 spell, sure. But anyone with a bit of grey matter between their ears can detect it and break free.

Architects would have to know about how to create wards that dispel illusions or transformations. Glass makers would have to be able to enchant their panes with anti-shatter charms. Spells that mind control people are clearly not trivial to cast, but regardless today people have strategies to avoid con artists and scammers that seek to lie to and manipulate them, and that wouldn't disappear in a magical world.
Etc. Your escalation only goes one direction.

>>731020643
If that was true in the world you would have taken steps to conceal the body from magic better. Which you would have been able to do because you would probably know some magic related to your underhanded profession.

>>731020479
>Having the knowledge of useful spells and abilities relevant to your daily needs does not mean having total access to every spell ever.
So there should be restrictions then? Like what? Only one healer per town? A butcher can't know how to teleport a person because, balance? A fucking farmer can't learn fireball because collecting firewood would become pointless? What about a blacksmith heating up metal with his fingertips, does he even need a forge? Coal? Tools?

>>731019396
if you create gameplay opportunities where lockpicking is incentivize it makes it seem more worthwhile to be its own skill
i guess slight of hand makes sense so typical thievery skills are all in one stat block. in an actual video game

>>731020867
Yes and if i was a bandit with magical abilities i wouldn't be robbing people because there is nothing that i can't acquire more easily by simply using my magic legally.

>>731014071
A rpg is enhanced by handicap skills like speech. Barter is just an extension of speech but it is important to give you an necessary edge if you choose less profit.

>>731014071
Pretty much any skill is defensible in an RPG. It's mostly a matter what the devs have the resources to implement properly.
>lockpick
>carrying capacity
These are great skills for adding depth to the loot system.
>speech
>barter
These only suck because most dialogue systems suck. If RPGs tried to systemize dialogue/relationships rather than lean on dialogue trees for everything, these would be a lot more interesting.

>>731020894
Why don't you know how to sew a shirt or how to weld aluminum or how to diagnose diseases in a canine?

>>731021516
So it's not magic anymore then but professions that people have to study and practice?
>well yes anon, i could just bring fido back to life but it wouldn't be cheap
>while it would be a 5 minute job for me i have other patients as well and only limited time so i have to prioritize paying customers
You're just implementing my system "magic should come at great cost" with drastically lowered values.

>>731016262
you can carry more cheese wheels if your traveling light. and heavy armor does slow you down until you level up high enough that it doesn't matter what armor your wearing.

>>731021910
Magic is always specialized in fiction.
This is how when I say 'Fire Witch', you're not asking why doesn't she cast mud spells or penile inversion magic.
Magic being normalized implies that people learn what spells that are convenient for them rather than dedicating themselves to its mastery. The same way you might learn how to wire a light socket for home improvement needs, but aren't going to spend time learning about how to build a generatior and what the Left Hand Rule means or why it matters.

>>731022878
Yeah, as i said, your magic system is just the casualized story mode version of mine. I would allow healing magic but anyone who can cast it would be a superstar, probably working for the king. Extremely difficult to learn, very costly to cast and thus super rare. You also don't want everyone to be a fucking doctor.

>>731022041
There is stone that make you ignore weight of armor and give +100 carrying weight.

>>731023665
Not everyone would be a doctor because rationally reconstructing organs is harder than creating a leash for your 5 year old daughter.
The issue is that making magic obscure and rare is absolutely fucking boring and results in a lame world that is just our world with some stuff shoved in wherever the author feels like it.

>>731022878
>>731019678
Didn't this idiot start off by acting like fantasy settings without lots of magic were uninteresting because it was too close to our world, and now he's talking about how magic in the world should just be glassmakers making better glass? Fantasy nerds are some of the biggest smooth brains, they act like they love storytelling and literature while being completely retarded

>>731024160
Those exist together.
Magic should appear all over and everywhere.
But rationally one also understands that most people are fundamentally lazy and only interested in learning skills insofar as there is personal benefit to doing so.
Being able to see magic everywhere as you walk down the street doesn't mean that those spells are all going to be time and space warping crimes against God and Nature. It means seeing people use the magic that they would actually want to learn and use.

>>731024159
>absolutely fucking boring and results in a lame world
Finally, there we have it. I'm saying that abundant magic trivializes the world and, more or less, solves every single natural problem and you're saying "but that's more fun."

>>731015795
intimidation should just be related to your STR

>>731024428
>Massive hulking foot barbarian clad in battle trophies with a giant blood stained axe.
>-3 intimidation because it scales with charisma.

>>731024916
Intimidation should be 0.5xCHA+1.0xINT+2.0xSTR because a 3 mountain of muscle is about as intimidating as a pimple faced skinny manlet.

>>731025302
False! Intimidation should be Strength + Endurance + Reputation (Are you known as a powerful and/or influential person?) + Equipment + worn items like trophies, badges, etc + Uncanny body features + Body language (which is not charisma but things like if you look scared or if you look confident or aggressive)

Todd is that you?

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>>731014071
All bait aside, fucking element systems and other pointlessly elaborate classifications of magic. This shit doesn't make for good role-playing-- or good fantasy in general. Stop doing it.
What would being good at one element, but not another element, say about my character? Nothing. Being good at fire magic but not lightning magic is not a character trait that a person would have, it doesn't give me anything to role-play as, it doesn't speak to anything human.
Oh, but what if the elements are woven into the different cultures inhabiting this fantasy world? Yeah, great worldbuilding, retard, totally original and not contrived at all. You're not the next AtLA, this isn't why AtLA was good, just please do NOT do this.
Overall, element systems are pointless bullshit that only giga autists care about because those people are mentally disabled and they enjoy fitting things into systems and categories for no fucking reason.