Why is good optimization so rare nowadays? who is to blame?
>>731066191
tech inflation is a real thing. The software, firmware, operating system, etc, all get more bloated over time and require greater performance to run. It's unavoidable as time progresses.
a lack of comprehensive free education for programmers
people in a typical CS major don't see enough math now
>>731066191not sure if you noticed but games are fully 3d gigantic 3d open world, the sheer scope is something unthinkable just 25 years ago>>731066327factually wrong>t. cs major
>>731066356Fucking oblivion mogs the fuck out of almost every open world game today and that ran on the 360
Ready-made game engines, they're big and complex on their own and tuning them properly requires a lot more know-how than building your own one. Bigger engines are also a requirement for more complex interaction systems. On top of that bigger dev teams means the worst programmer of the bunch is the performance bottleneck.
>>731066356my major has me take intro to linear algebra, calc 1&2, discrete math and intro to stats in a 4 year period. There's no way that's enough, I'm gonna take more with electives but for anyone who hates math they can just do there 5 classes and be done
>>731066191Devs are terrified of concepts like baked lighting
>>731066327Performance is a lot less about math than it is knowing the hardware you develop for and how to optimize for it. Not to say that it doesn't help.
>>731066191Someone post the comic of a redditor wondering why vidya is shit with the companies being filled with nogs, fags, and women
>>731066817if that's the case, why are japanese games also terribly optimized as well?
>>731066191studio higher ups and chasing investor and hedge funds pleasing profit marginsthere is also the fact that could be argued how component manufacturers being greedy and not delivering sufficiently powerful components and them deliberately nerfing them which just to trying to upsell the product with bigger profit margin
>>731066191People with no idea how computers even work allowed to use them as "developers"
>>731066191the standards were higher back then. There are talented people now, but there are more developers now who use EZ plug-and-chug engines instead of actually having to do the work to adapt and optimize. Since there are so many people devving these days the median skill level has gone down drastically.
>>731067054The time cost isn't worth it. Building something from scratch so you have control at a lower level with optimal memory management will take you nothing short of 10 years before you've made a game out of it. Is it worth spending more than 1/10th of your life for performance gains?
>>731066917>he doesn't know
>>731066917Blame unrealYou need to teach your people how to use in-house, but any jeet can ape unreal.Member MT framework? Fox? Fábula crystalis or some bs like that? Me neither
what i've seen as a reocurring problem is optimizing too late in development and also delegating only a few people who don't have the manpower to and often are not even the correct people for optimizing all the content in the game
>>731067180You say that as if dev times aren't significantly longer these days compared to a few gens ago and all for an honestly worse productLike, we are literally living in a Gen where a console has 8 aa games/year, and they are all shit anyways
Everything turns to shit over time. If you want highly optimized games that can run on 1999 hardware, be the change you want to see in the world. Develop in C, not Unreal.
>>731067212japanese game companies at this point are mostly old men and the problem is that there is barely anybody available to replace them when they retire
>>731066356Not sure if you noticed but games like Just Cause 2, Dying Light or GTA V came out years ago and run very well despite being open world. Meanwhile modern slop runs like shit because of Unreal Trash Engine or because it was made by Crapcum trying to force their engine designed for linear games to handle open world and there's a constant DLC check killing your frames.
>>731066191Think about it from an investment perspective.What is cheaper:>Spend extra time making the product work under more straining or lacking conditionsOr:>Offload the burden of requirements specs onto the consumer
>>731066327I don't know how math can help Counter Strike players.
>>731066356>Literally every bethesda open world game gets smaller and performance gets worse as they get newer (morrowind -> oblivion -> spaceslop, etc)>same holds roughly true for everything else>despite graphics stagnating for the past 10 years>and physics and AI regressing
>>731067447Poor Dragon's Dogma 2
>>731066191You can't even define what you mean by "optimization" and are simply complaining that a game made in 2025 doesn't run at 120FPS on your toaster-ass decade-old GTX 1050.
>>731067506sure, but the bad press you get from having a piece of shit optimized game loses you sales as well
>>731067335A 7 year dev cycle is still preferable to a 12 year dev cycle.
>>731066191Ballooning costs of development. No reason to spend time optimizing your shit when you can do the bare minimum and then have DLSS fix the shit performance for you, the drawbacks of which don't really matter to the average consumer.
>>731067743If this board is anything to go by, people will just defend your game by accusing anyone who complains about the specs of being poor and/or Indian.
>>731067519>Whites become minority>Everything goes to shitWow who would have guessed
>>731066615Baked lighting sucks
>>731067898for sure but it's still losing sales, as much as people defend the developers there's no amount of defending you can do to convince someone to buy thousands of dollars worth of hardware to then buy a 100$ after tax game
>>731066280I never thought about it before but its crazy how society doesn't really care about hardware and software education. Development in all fields related to computers has been going crazy nonstop since the 1940s but most people don't even know what is going on inside a computer. The average person just sees computer jobs as a way to get rich that is being gatekept from them.
>>731066191>who is to blame?Game companies going public and the government.
>>731067447>games like Just Cause 2, Dying Light or GTA V came out years ago and run very wellon target hardware they launched for? no they absolutely didn't, point dismissed
>>731066191It was always rare. You're just a victim of Survivorship bias.
>>731068053you can say this about any specialized field though. I've driven a car for 10 years and know very little about it other than how to change tires and breakpads, and a rudimentary idea of what part does what. I take seizure medication and know nothing about pharmaceuticals (in terms of how they're made), I eat food I buy at a store yet know nothing about logistical supply chains, I mean it just goes on and on.Anyone can understand computer analogies to which part is which part of the human body, like "the cpu is the thinking brain, the power supply is the heart, the RAM is short term memory, SDD/HDD is long term memory" etc which is how I was taught initially but when you get into clock times, ALU, threads etc forget it. But these days anyone going into STEM is taught entry-level programming to be able to do some stuff. Hardware less, but ultimately hardware is just electrical circuits, right? You don't need to know the nitty-gritty to be able to make a program to do the calculations of the problem you're solving.
>>731068018User error
>>731066264Unless it's doom (not zdoom) or mario 64
>>731066280>sign up for a programming course>they give us a task>tell us to just google anything we don't know
>2mb of ram>xbox 360brah a zoomer made this shit
>>731068276Thank god someone gets it.
>>731068668He's clearly making fun of the 360
>>731066191There are literally no engineers involved at any stage of the game development process anymore. It's just a bunch of artists jerking each other off then giving orders to code monkeys. All at the lowest market rate possible. Of course there's no optimisation. Of course there's no new ideas. Of course nothing gets done on time.
>>731066191retards hiring jeet programmers because they’re cheaper and more obedient
>>731068631that's just bad teaching, but I mean, I heard other students in my classes also complain about this but I never had problems with the teachers. Why were they not telling me to google stuff and they were telling other students to google stuff? I actually don't know, the only thing I can guess is they'd do that when the material was already covered or the questions were too simple or what have you
>>731066191Unreal 5 and Epic.
>>731066191jeets arent contracted to optimize. their contract has a target for performance and all they care about is meeting that target. going above and beyond what is in the contract doesnt make them more money.
>>731068668they still had to work within the limitation of the console. for instance gta 4 -> gta 5 had to be done on the same 2005 hardware.
>>731068631>Class has 2 teachers>if you got help from Teacher 1 you can't get help from Teacher 2 because they can't understand the others solution and vice versaGlad I noped out early.
>>731066191>QUICK TO THE UNREAL ENGINE 5>WOOOOOOOOAHHHHHHHHHHHAAAAHHHHHH OH GOD OH GOD OH MY GOD>PETER WHAT THE HELL>JOE JOE GET INSIDE THE SHADERS ARE STILL COMPILING>WHAT THE HELL PETER THE CPU IS HITTING 90 DEGREES>WOAAAAAAAAA- O, O, O, O, O, O-*UE5.exe has stopped responding*every new game now.
>>731066191the pushing of fake frames to be acceptable
>>731068018It doesn't. And we already perfected raster based dynamic lighting during the DX11days.
>>731068841How the hell does that work lol
>>731068841>teacher runs the class "democratically" and has the students decide as a whole on how the assignments are given>overwhelming majority consistently votes for the easiest possible tasks>you do great in the class yet learn nothingcommunity college is a joke
>>731068945I know this one! this is Stalker!
>>731067898>peopleNo, these are paid shills which are obviously also much much cheaper than paying a programmer and giving him the time to optimize.
>>731067396>. Develop in C, not Unreal.In what language do you think Unreal is written retard
>>731068945crysis did volumetric lighting in 2007 (dx10)
>>731068997>tfw you know machine code cause you know java
>>731066191Limitation breeds innovation and creativity, which creates soul.
>>731067396Or just make yer game in Godot.If you're UE slave, use UE4.
>>731068945>cherry-picked example from a game that has notoriously shit graphics AND optimization
>>731068958It doesn't.It's what happens when people who couldn't make it in the industry goes into teaching instead.
>>731069036FEAR and Condemned did it couple years earlier on DX9
>>731068945Just imagine what it could be
>>731066191Devs 30 years ago had to do as much as they could with as little as possible so they put in a huge amount of effort to make it good.Devs today don't give a shit because they just bloat the shit out of their games and say "well just buy a better PC to run it faggot" and then send it off
>>731068896can somebody explain to me why "shader compiling" wasn't a thing 20 years ago but today literally every game that comes out needs an hour to compile shaders before it stops stuttering and having insible objects
>>731069074the opposite is true. limitations do exactly as you said, they limit and bog down people's creativity. can't let your imagination run wild when you have to worry about fitting hardware limitations.games are less optimized but way more interesting as a result.
>>731069338*do exactly as their title claimsmy bad
>>731069098What the fuck are you babbling about??STALKER looked fucking gorgeous AND ran smooth as butter day 1, even on the DX9 mode, on a 2003 WinXP machines with a 128mb GEFORCE FX 5600 128MB + 1core AMD running at 2Ghz + 1.5Gb DDR1 RAM.
>>731068569>Unless it's [games that are 30 years old]No shit, a modern PC can still run DOS at blazing fast speeds.
>/v/ being clueless retards spouting off whatever made up bullshit sounds "right" to their uneducated assesSometimes I wish I didn't know jack shit about software development so I could go peak Dunning-Kruger with you fags rather than cringing at your moronic takes.
>>731066543>just do there 5 classestake some English electives while you're at it
>>731068945>perfectedthat looks like shit
>>731069414>STALKER looked fucking gorgeousit looked worse than half-life 2 which came out 3 years earlier, crysis came out the same year and that still holds up today. this game looks like a piece of shit>AND ran smooth as butter day 1oh of course. please never mind all the fucking patches the devs had to release and nevermind that this piece of shit game crashes constantly to this very fucking day.just because this game is old enough to run on whatever subhuman third world potato that trickled down to your brown hellspawn village, doesn't mean it was well-optimized on release or ever.
>>731069424I like seeing posts like that because it helps remind me that I have better taste and am smarter than /v/ and r/games
>>731069424nice passive aggressive take nigger but you're probably dumber than those posters
>>731067396Why stop there? Make your game in basic. Complete control.
>>731069449I literally have a brain tumor in my language processing center. Sorry.
>>731069424>Be real game Dev>Download assets from synty >Use 16gb of memory to render a dog>Use a gorillion triangles to map a cube>Use obtuse rectangles to create collision for everything>Force the user to compile shadersMeanwhile PS2 devs were able to create AAA experiences with a graphing calculator and two red bulls.
Today I learned /v/ is full of elite programmers, coders and designers. Yet, they have made 0 games.
>>731067396Or just use C++ in UE instead of blueprints and don't use lumen or nanite.
>>731069074Only retarded third worlders keep repeating this like worse hardware is why games were better optimized and more creative. No, you idiot. The problem is the lack of human talent working on games. HLA was amazingly well optimized and had lots of cool tech in it and that's a recent game.
>>731069565>doesn't mean it was well-optimized on release or ever.Not him but you're a fucking retard if you're confused engine instability with poor performance relative to hardware of the time.
