>>731068045
who cares, the game sucks. play it for a whopping 0 hours to fully complete it.

one of the best games ever made

>>731068045
>Filtered
Considering how many normies Hollow Knight attracted and how many people are now turning against Silksong, I am considering this the ultimate filter.

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>>731068045
You just suck

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>>731068045
took me 110 to 100% so your numbers seem off. the game is mid thoughsoeverbeit

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I dropped it at 46 hours

Really telling when a 3 hours long Metroid game provides more fun and replaying value than any of the Hollow Shit games

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>>731068045
Plenty of 70$ games with 10 hours of content for you buddy.

>>731068045
Rather the should be short cuts that are hard to find or use. 20 to 30 for a blind run and 5 for a pro. Similar to salt and sanctuary.

>>731068045
>+30h to barely get 4% from true ending
Did you hit all walls because this game is a piece of shit metroidvania that doesn't bring anything to help locate the last % (which, by the way, isn't even a true 100%)
Most metroidvanias made in the last decade has this feature. But no, for shitsong, either you hit ALL walls, or you HAVE TO check a map. Good game right?

>>731069050
>Game doesn't even say if you've completed a zone
This is so bad. Meanwhile, they give all fleas locations somehow. Not even their a rough location, it's the exact one.
Why didn't they do the same for the rest?
Shit game

>>731068045
the first hollow knight was also a slog
wtf did you expect

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>>731068669
Make another one for Metroid 4 vs silksong
it's even funnier

>>731068045
It's difficulty slop that preys on the sunk-cost fallacy. It's literally a midwit game.

>>731068045
75 hours to 100% and get all the mementos. And this is admittedly with going back to grinding for shards for some harder bosses. What the fuck were you doing?

>>731068045
The entire "true ending" garbage is trash.

Unfun to play with super duper infected enemies and closed paths. Lack of life in the world, bad explanation and grounding in the narrative (you can instantly kill the big bad by playing normally, but doing the special ending means the villain is alive while submerged in Liquid Death until the world dies).

Didn't stick the landing. 5/10 game

>>731069264
The first game was briskly paced by comparison.

>>731068045
It's not a Metroidvania, it's a Hollowlike

>>731069296
But fusion is great

>>731070043
>bad explanation and grounding in the narrative (you can instantly kill the big bad by playing normally, but doing the special ending means the villain is alive while submerged in Liquid Death until the world dies).
They literally tell you several times the sages' plan was dogshit and Hornet gets mad for it, watch a better youtube essay next time

>>731070103
Guacastained*

>>731070043
>(you can instantly kill the big bad by playing normally, but doing the special ending means the villain is alive while submerged in Liquid Death until the world dies).
GMS is clearly making a barrier against the void and failing at keeping it up until Hornet arrives. She's a god fighting off a more powerful god, the void is only instant death to little cringers without white flowers

>>731070103
Guacastained

>we've now entered 2026 and /v/ is still crying about silksong.
DSP beat silksong and moved on you shitters.

>>731070382
>Shit act 2 boss
>reused final boss
>Filler act 3 with one move bosses
Of course most people can easily beat this shit game, even pre nerf. It's just bad, man.

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>watch video of gameplay
>each attack causes an annoying flash taking up a quarter of the screen
>character moves like she has five pounds of shit in her pants
>backgrounds are OK but characters all look dumb and simple
>stupid "voice acting" noise
>skip video ahead
>endgame is pogosticking off enemies through corridors lined with spikes
meh

>>731070761
Do you analyze games by watching YouTube, anon? Lol
Go play something, you fag, you're on a video game nboard

>>731068045
I took a break from it at around 60 hours in the middle of act 3. It's a great game and i love it but i don't vibe with some gameplay design choices. I feel like late game you could or should have gotten access to at least some form of demigod mode where traversal and getting rid of mobs gets easier. Not every encounter has to be a boss or miniboos fight.

>>731070508
>Of course most people can easily beat
except for the very vast extreme majority of posters on this board evidently

>>731070808
I am a video game EXPERT I can just glance at gameplay and determine if it sucks or not, and this game is a DOODOO BUG POO GAME

>>731068045
Silksong was way too short. Should've been 3x the length.

>>731069296
kys

>>731069050
I can see someone taking 90 hours for the hundo if they refuse to just check a guide for the last few tools they're missing and instead walk manually around the whole perimeter of the map, and hit every individual wall and mash against every individual corner. I got to 95% at hour 65 and then just looked up a guide because I didn't want to do that.

Bilewater made me rage quit for the first time in the game. I closed it with Alt+F4 after I died, I don't even know if I lost my save after that...
The whole area is designed like a shitty Mario World romhack, the kind that those YouTuber faggots keep screaming about because they fell for the "epic troll" or somehting.
It's just terrible. Unfun shit.
The main bench is literally a troll that throws you into the sewer. And the second bench near the boss is hidden in an area that, in order to leave, you must dive into the sewer and then tediously recover your ability to use silk.

>>731072117
Did you really have to post this after deleting your first post?

>>731068045
shut the fuck up you dumb motherfucker

>90 hours for 100%
Only if you're fucking around all the time or leaving the game idle. It took me 60 hours to 100% with all mementos and full Hunter's Journal, and I took my sweet time with the game.

>>731072117
Bilewater wouldn't be nearly as bad if Groal was a better boss, but because he's such a shitty encounter it makes a frustrating zone 10x more annoying. Blighttown was a shithole, but at least at the end of it Quelaag was an easy encounter with some cool lore and who showed you her tits.

>>731072549
>and full Hunter's Journal,
Nah lol

Speedrunning achievements are the gayest thing a developer can add to their game; I did it once with metro last light years ago I and will never do it again.

>>731072713
Just don't do them.

>>731072350
I deleted the first post because I posted it in the wrong thread. There was a thread about Bilewater just now, and I posted it in the wrong tab, but when I deleted it here, I noticed that the other thread had already been archived. But why am I explaining this to you?

>>731068045
i cba doing some retarded fetching quest

>>731072713
I think it's fine as long as it's just "do this but hurry up" rather than "be as good as actual autistic speedrunners"

>>731073938
The True Ending wr speedrun is 3 hours. The True Ending speedrun cheevo is 30 hours.

>>731068045
It's a pinnacle of game design that it has so much obscure hidden shit that nearly everyone finds. This shit needs to be studied by game developers in order to make games that don't talk down to players.

>>731069050
You can still finish the game and just not get 100% desu.

>>731068045
You don't have to rush it just enjoy it, tf Is wrong with gamers

>>731072117
While BW was clearly the worst part of the game, I think it was to teach a couple of things.
>That if something is way too hard, go somewhere else.
>You can parry physical projectile.
>That you have to put yourself on harms way to find new paths.

Most Metroidvanias are just braindead and most players are just dumb enough to keep throwing themselves until they go through (aka the Elden Ring effect).

>>731072576
Groal is a perfectly fine boss. Use the Wreath of Purity to make yourself immune to the roachwater. Feed him Pimpillos or Voltvessel bolas to stop him from inhaling you. Throw Voltvessels into the water for big damage. Pogo him. He's not hard.

sounds based, was holding off on this until they drop DLCs because they fleshed out the first game so much. maybe i should just play the base version then

>>731068045
>60 hours for the true ending
I got true ending and did a bunch of side shit in 44 hours despite being stuck at some parts of the game for a really long time.
>100% a game
I rarely care for that sort of thing.

>>731078081
>Use the Wreath of Purity
Who the fuck goes to Ducts before Bilewater? It immensely unlikely to find one before another. Even by the progression of the game the chamber where with Brood feast wish has a short cut to Ducts that is only accessible from the inside.

>>731068045
I did like half the side quests and didn't experience act 3 and it seemed like a good length. Seems fine for a replay -- you don't have to 100% it every time you play it.

>>731078434
People who hang around the Citadel. You get to the Ducts via following the Songclave merchant rescue quests, tracking her down after she disappeared in the Memorium.

>>731078434
It's pretty easy to find Ducts before Bilewater. Just make a point of aggressively clearing the Songclave quest board and the merchant will move right outside it. "Hey, that looks like a Path of Pain jump, I wonder if there's anything there..." -> Putrid Ducts. The only other entrance to Bilewater you could have found at the time is behind an illusory wall that's easily missable without the Flea map (which you get in the Ducts).

>>731068045
It is a third of that length. You're listening to shitters who have no clue how to play the game.

>got 100% in 45 hours
I don't know how it takes people longer, other than they run around in circles and don't do anything for 40 hours. Or take 30 tries for every boss fight.

>>731079065
>>731078956
https://howlongtobeat.com/game/65945
>Median 100% run: 61 hours
Saying you 100% this game in 30-40 hours is cap

>>731078857
>other entrance to Bilewater you could have found at the time is behind an illusory wall that's easily missable
It's not. It's a very transparent ledge with a dead body on it. I was going to say you need both clawline and double jump to access ducts, but apparently it's the same for Bilewater, otherwise you can reach the top, where the boss is.

>>731079275
>a bunch of shitters require 100+ hours to beat the game
>this bloats the median up
>plus only a handful of people actually use that site

30-40 hours is easily doable if you can handle the bosses.

>>731079275
Bar maybe a handful of things in the hunter's journal, 30-40 hours is a very reasonable estimate. Most people who chose to play Silksong are shit at it.

>>731079569
>>731079498
30 hours is the speedrun achievement, implying this is a reasonable blind playthrough time is cap. You're full of shit.

>>731079474
Yeah but that's if you keep going through Sinner's Road. Once you hit the shit water, you're supposed to think "ok I'm coming back later because I assume there's an upgrade that deals with this." And then boom you do.

>>731068045
This shit is exactly why Expedition 33 won game of the year. Even little indie companies like this were convinced that bigger is always better when that was never the case.
There's so much filler content in Silksong and the game never tangibly rewards you for doing any of it. It even has repeatable quests and mandatory money grinding for 100% completion, which is shit that usually only AAA games do to artificially bloat game length in order to justify making sequels.
TC fell for the meme and as a result made a sequel that isn't nearly as good as the first game. If Silksong was half as long and removed all of its garbage side quests, it very likely would have won game of the year, or at least it would have been a much closer race.

>>731079770
Do not redeem, saar

>>731079770
The speedrun achievement is designed to sit a couple hours under where a competent player will end the game. It's not a world record time plus five hours or some shit like that, the devs have functioning brains.

>>731068045
Silksong still felt way too short for how long it took to make. Is there a single metroidvania that can take several hundreds of hours to complete on a very first playthrough? That's unironically the experience I want. I want to feel like I'm getting lost in a world for months at a time, not something I can finish in a week and forget about it after. MMO's don't count.

>>731079918
Silksong is better than Hollow Knight in all regards except ways HK was improved post-launch, which Silksong will also get.
If you had to grind money you played wrong.

>>731079770
>my original post says I did everything in around 45 hours
>I said this because I definitely ran in circles in some areas and fought bosses over and over
>explain it's easy if you're not fucking up to do it in 30-40
>now you're saying 30 hours and ignoring the higher range of 40
Lmao at this goal post moving.

>>731080059
>Silksong is better than Hollow Knight in all regards
lol
>If you had to grind money you played wrong.
lmao

>>731079770
An actual 100% speedrun of Silksong takes about five hours according to speedrun websites. That proves the point further. That gives you 25 hours to fuck around.

If you need 60 hours to 100% the game, that's fine, but don't pretend that you actually need that much time.

>>731080220
A speedrun already knows exactly where to go to do everything in an optimal order. It's not really a fair comparison.

>>731080063
45 hours is still 2 standard deviations ahead of the community-generated mean, which means you're still a liar

>>731080339
First of all, no it doesn't, routing the game efficiently is the main challenge of speedrunning, the best route is all in flux.
Secondly, the speedrun achievement being 6x longer than the world record should tell you that it's far from demanding actual speedrun skills or strategies. I know a guy who did it on his third playthrough without any real "planning" beyond getting all the most important tools ASAP and then doing a sweep of the map.

>>731080220
>An actual 100% run of Silksong is 5 hours after you put 1000 hours of practice into the route

>>731080339
That's still what we can consider as "necessary" time to beat the game. While no first time player is ever going to get that time, we need to remember we're looking at the original pitched median of ~60 hours. We also know if going by social media posts as well as 4chan posts that people have done second runs for 100% and managed to beat it in as little as 25 hours. We also from those same sources have people that post it taking as long as 120-150 hours to fully beat the game. Therefore, 62 is a fair median, but it leans closer to a lower range.

>>731068045
my only gripe with the game is that lost lace sucked as a final boss and i legit couldn't care less about her,

>>731080535
The community-generated mean contains a lot of data from people who are so unlike the target audience as to be useless with no way to filter out that data.

>>731080540
>First of all, no it doesn't
Literally yes it does lmao, speedrunners route the most efficient way through the game before they even start doing speedruns.
>it's all in flux
Take your meds LOL

>>731080614
That's a fair point. Unless you like Lace as a character, which you likely only do if you buy into Yuri fanfic shit, she's nowhere near as interesting as the Hollow Knight or the Radiance. Even Grandmother Silk is far more interesting.

>>731080693
>the most efficient path through the game is known instantaneously after launch and all you do is repeat it over and over until you get a world record time
Wow, thinking of speedrunning like this I can only imagine 100% of participants would be complete faggots, good thing that's nothing like reality.

>>731080770
You're right, real life IS nothing like your reality :)

>>731068045
>ruins replay value
I know this is a baitpost but no it doesn't, subsequent runs take much less time because you already know what routes to take, where the secrets are, where the upgrades are hidden, etc. There's barely any exploration unless you take a different route (like going through wormways instead of deep docks at the start) but once you know how to navigate the map, the play time is cut by more than half

>>731068045
>>90 hours to get 100%
Huh? Are you retarded?

>>731080667
>Erm aktshually, chud, don't you know the target audience of this game is the top 2.1% of everyone who bought it??? Nobody else counts!
Lmao

>>731080849
>nooooo everyone just knows how to speedrun the second they see the game, me and all the other honest players just choose not to!
mental illness

>>731080758
exactly, it soured my experience with act 3 because unlike the knight hornet has a pre-determined personality and i really didn't agree with her wish to save lace, plus the music during the descend is too heroic and not very somber so it felt tacky

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>>731079065
Same. Did all the exploration, got all tools, got all trophies, beat the game, and now I'm waiting for the free DLC to come back for more. Probably only got road blocked about 3 or 4 times.

>>731080943
Jokes aside, at this point I wouldn't be surprised if it was. You need to be at a Pantheon skill level before you can finish Silksong.

>>731080595
That's because in any Medroidvania, the biggest time sink is wandering around the world figuring out where to go next. Take your playthrough time where you know where to be and what to equip at all times and don't die to the bosses, and double it. That's the blind run estimate.

>>731080943
The target audience of Silksong is people who could actually beat Hollow Knight. Not people who could just barely get to regular Radiance while facetanking everything leading up to it.

>>731070761
>watch video of gameplay
Post discarded.

>>731081057
>If you didn't beat P5 you didn't beat the game
Lmao

>>731081046
>Take your playthrough time where you know where to be and what to equip at all times and don't die to the bosses, and double it. That's the blind run estimate.
30 hours is the blind run estimate then, got it.

I've slipped off twice now

>Moorwing back in early September
>Last week when fighting the Fat Chef in Sinner's Road
Every time I try to come back I realize I'm out of shards and close the game. I don't wanna go grind shards. What a horrible mechanic.

>>731072117
>in order to leave, you must dive into the sewer
lol
>>731077767
>most players are just dumb enough to keep throwing themselves until they go through
Verified by the above post.

>>731081109
If you think NKG and absolute radiance are "bullshit" and the real point of HK was complete shitters like Lost Kin then yeah, you didn't beat the game and you aren't the target audience of Silksong.

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>>731072713
>mfw trying to get Halo 2 legendary under 3 hours achievement
I mean if I really like the game and the speedrun isn't too bullshit I might go for it. If the game was ok I usually don't bother with speedrun achievements

>>731080995
Literally not how speedruns work and you're completely misunderstanding them lmao. People weren't doing 5 hour 100% runs on day 1, they firstly had to beat the game and then route that for a second playthrough.
A child could figure this out but here I am explaining this to some probable 40+ year old manchild. Might be time to retire from the internet for the day.

The game feels really bloated with act 3 and I don't really care about pharloom that much to want to save it. After all, most bugs here are dead

>>731081287
>Literally not how speedruns work
Yes that's what I'm saying you fucking retard, it takes time to route a game and even once the route is "done" there's always the chance people overlooked something.

>>731080220
Keep in mind that 100% completion isn't ACTUALLY 100% completing the game.
>Needle upgrades: 4%
>Ancient Masks: 5% (1% per mask, 20 shards total, 4 per mask)
>Spool upgrades: 9% (1% per spool, 18 spool shards, 2 per spool)
>Silk Hearts: 3%
>Everbloom: 1%
>Sylphsong: 1% (32 non-Hunter crest slots required, so 15/20 total Memory Lockets required, 12 If never used on Hunter)
>Crests: 6%
>Silk Skills: 6%
>Crafting Kit upgrades: 4%
>Tool Pouch upgrades: 4%
>Ancestral Arts: 6%
>Tools: 51%
That's it. This means that you don't need all Memory Lockets, you don't need to complete the Materium, you don't need to upgrade the bellhome (or even buy it), you don't need to complete the Hunter's Journal, you don't need to complete Mister Mushroom's quest, and you don't need any of the mementos. And if a boss is guarding something and you know how to skip that boss to get that item, you can. Bosses don't count for completion.

>>731081137
You don't have to grind shards if you've got like 100-150 rosaries.
>but I don't have those either I'd have to grind!
So you're a shitter who lost everything and blames it on the game, got it.

>>731081564
>So you're a shitter who lost everything and blames it on the game, got it.
I don't want to empty my pockets just because a boss is being a faggot.

The resource economy is dogshit.

Feels like a lot of Silksong fans don't even like the game, they just like bragging about the fact that they beat it to others.

>>731081137
Don't grind shards, grind rosaries. Then buy shard bundles at Bellhart. Or switch to a crest that's not fucking Architect and learn proper spacing instead of toolspam 24/7.

>>731081678
I'm not using architect and grinding is grinding. It's fucking ultra-gay.

>>731081286
I only do speedrun achievements if it's one with a lot of leniency. If it's something you have to play near perfectly to get, it always feels like more of a headache to fully optimize everything.

>>731081618
>I lost all my lives and now I have to GRIND for them or I'll get a game over, this is such bullshit
You failed repeatedly while displaying no self awareness. The game is punishing you for that.
>BUT GETTING MORE OF A THING THAT I'M OUT OF IS GRINDING
You are a shitter.

Why do BLACK enemies take so many hits to go down?
God fucking dammit travelling in this game just slowed down to a crawl
>just ignore them brooooo
I want their rosaries. The game is balanced around you NOT ignoring your enemies.

>>731081735
Just do a sweep of the Choral Chambers and the Whispering Vaults and you should have several hundred rosaries to spend. And again, don't toolspam. If you're at the point where you're at 0 shards it means you're relying on tools way too much and should trust your needle and silk skills far more.

>>731081618
>The resource economy is dogshit
Sound like a you issue. Tool are supposed to help easy the fight not beat the whole thing.

>>731081529
That's realistically not too bad. And we don't know if the 100% on that website accounts for doing all bosses and finishing the journal or if it's just the 100% the game gives out to you. Could be either and that makes it more confusing.

>>731081913
Because you're in Act 3 and the game assumes that if you made it that far it can take the kid gloves off now. Upgrade your needle and start dumping damage into voided enemies.

>>731077767
>That if something is way too hard, go somewhere else.
I feel like the game actually promotes the opposite, since if you die in the middle of a difficult area, you have to go back in to get all your rosaries (and spools) back. Then you're already halfway into a difficult area so you might as well go a little further to look for a bench or fast travel spot. Sure you can use a Silkeater but that's just admitting defeat, which a lot of people are too stubborn to do.

>>731081980
>tools*
>ease*

>>731081952
>Don't rely on tools against this mega cancerous boss who doesn't give you good openings
C'mon now.

>>731081980
Right and if I lose anyways, I'm running out of resources

>>731081913
get the shaman crest

>>731082272
>the boss doesn't give me openings to hit it enough to kill it at all, I HAVE to use tools every attempt!
Then you don't know the boss well enough and should devote a few attempts to doing it with no tools at all. Every boss is designed for a hypothetical tool-less win.

>>731082272
>who doesn't give you good openings
If she does her butt slam jump over her and hit her. If she does her ladle slam or ground pound focus on dodging the muckmaggot broth globs first, then hit her. Lugoli only has like three attacks, slow down and play defensively.

na fenestra

>>731082698
majina fora

>>731082439
Of course it is. It's still a fact that the stupid worm water she throws around is the biggest reason why she pushes you to use more tools.

>>731082509
>slow down and play defensively.
I do. She's still maximum cancer and obviously tools are very good against her.

She's not fun, I don't care to learn her to that degree. I could ignore her and come back later but this sort of thing is a game killer for me. Might never come back. Getting resource fucked is so fucking unfun.

>>731082742
Most of the bosses aren't very fun to be 2bh

>>731071423
you first

>>731082742
Then go get the god damn Wreath of Purity. It's a blue tool so shards aren't needed, and you won't get infested if you get hit by the broth globs. Team Cherry has said their design philosophy behind the game is to let the player leave and come back later if they get stuck somewhere, presumably with new toys and upgrades to make rematches more favorable.

>>731083035
>Then go use a guide and ruin the game for yourself
No thanks.

>>731068045
Nothing is too long or too short if you're having fun.

>>731077767
I think you're just rationalizing. Bilewater happens when you've already played the game for 20+ hours. There's nothing to learn there. It's just a collection of the worst features of the game all in one place:
>low visibility
>water that removes all your silk and also your ability to use it until you use healing at least once
>flying enemies with high evasion, but also with high tracking, which makes them annoying pests
>enemies that don't engage in combat and go underground, making you wait for them to reappear
>literal troll moments, including a fake bench
>annoying platforming and climbing, with a lot of spikes because indie games = spikes, apparently
>traps everywhere, even during the fucking boss
>session of annoying enemies that don't engage in combat and hide all the time, mandatory before the boss
>2 damage points on things that are not directly combat
>boss that also hides all the time and floats around the arena with a huge body that takes 2 damage if it touches you
>benches that are too far apart
>the most important bench is a secret

The guys literally wanted to make a bad area on purpose, and they succeeded. It's the worst part of the game, by design, and I don't understand why anyone thinks it's a good idea to take all the worst things in the game and concentrate them in one place.
There is no gameplay purpose in the design of that area. They wanted players to hate that place because it is inhabited by insects that hate everyone else, and that's it.
It's garbage.
It's the only part of the game that seems to have been made by people who have no idea what they're doing. It's literally Mario Maker tier hot garbage.

Speaking of bosses, they really haven't reached NKG's level huh
Shouldn't have used all your power level on a free dlc

>>731083074
You've already "ruined the game for yourself" by ragequitting because you spent all your shards spamming tools instead of learning how to dodge and hit properly, so what've you got to lose?

>>731083414
I dodge and hit just fine, it's just this boss who makes the spam necessary because she's cancer. The fight has to end before she slimes me.

You're right though, the game is fucked for me either way so I guess I'll just move on.

>>731083179
Nightmare King Grimm isn't even hard, he's about as tough as Karmelita and as much of a dance. Pure Vessel and Grey Prince Zote are actually hard. I think Hollow Knight is a harder game than Silksong, honestly.

>>731083627
>I think Hollow Knight is a harder game than Silksong, honestly.
Only the Godmaster content, which Silksong hasn't received an equivalent to yet.

>>731083497
>i dodge and hit just fine, it's just this boss who makes the spam necessary because she's cancer
NTA but they already told you that all bosses are designed to be defeated without tools. How is the spam necessary?
And if you dodge and hit "just fine" then you should have beaten her by now. No matter how you look at it this is the biggest skill issue i have yet to see, at least from my prospective.

>>731083176
>flying enemies with high evasion, but also with high tracking, which makes them annoying pests
You say this but I saw them as valuable silk sources because they endlessly respawn and are easy to hit. If I fell in the water then you better believe I'm hunting those flies or the umbrella bugs for a couple of binds before continuing on.

>>731083497
>The fight has to end before she slimes me.
That's only the case because you have to heal, which you wouldn't if you were dodging and hitting "just fine".

>>731083926
>How is the spam necessary?
I told you: She spams the megagay slime so since the fight will end in literally maybe 1-2 hits if I'm slimed, I have to win before that happens.
>And if you dodge and hit "just fine" then you should have beaten her by now.
Nah, because the fucking slime is a death sentence.

>SO USE A GUIDE!
No thanks.

>>731084012
"Just fine" isn't "Perfect" you hideous nigger. One slime and I'm basically fucked.

>>731084073
Just dodge the slime bro.

>>731084073
Equip the Multibinder and you'll both de-muck and heal in the same bind.

>>731084171
Right and when I fuck that up once after investing a ton of tools into trying to shorten phase 2, I'm simply left with -40 shards and the bench.

>>731084204
See this is the guide shit I don't want to know. I'm sure if I use a guide and know everything it's EZPZ. I don't engage with these games that way.

I'm actually annoyed at you, I have the multibinder, I didn't come here for advice or spoilers.

the spool extender sounds really good. Why don't more people talk about it? Too expensive?

>>731083627
>Nightmare King Grimm isn't even hard
He is the hardest one for my impatient ass. He is the only boss out of all 2 games whose openings you have to respect utterly and obediently or suffer. Trying to damage him outside of those windows (bat cloak projectiles and pogo on him during his lunge) will just result in damage and being tilted out of rhythm. I hate this shit so much.

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>>731084275
>Complains on 4chan about a boss and expects to not be given advice on how to beat said boss

>>731084320
Any situation where you are going to need two consecutive heals just seems one frame from death anyway. So what's the point?

>>731084391
I think anon might be retarded, yeah.

>>731084073
I didn't tell you to read a guide, dipshit. And oo one is holding you at gun point to beat that boss, just leave it and come back later. It's an optional boss at the end.

>>731084391
I didn't ask for it. I'm just saying the game's design is too painful for me and it didn't hook me enough to want to push past.

>>731084448
Yeah but you can heal AND use your silk powers too

>>731084275
>when I fuck that up once after investing a ton of tools into trying to shorten phase 2
If you fuck up dodging a single attack and it dooms your entire attempt then you're not dodging "just fine" bro.

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Silksong is at least twice as long as it should've been. The locations are fucking barren, especially when it comes to upgrades and things to find that aren't 10 rosaries over a pit.

>>731084349
That's why I thought he was easy, because he has a quickly readable, reliable rhythm. Once you get into his groove you just match the beats and you've beaten him. It's why I thought Pure Vessel and Grey Prince Zote are much harder, because they throw out moves without a care for patterns, so it's much harder to tell what's coming or when to attack, so if you "step out of rhythm" you're turbo-fucked.

>>731084528
You can do that without the extended spool. The sole point of it is that it can store two heals when default, fully upgraded one can't. When in the fuck are you going to need two heals back to back?

>>731084539
It does when that hit makes me unable to fucking heal or accumulate silk anymore.

>>731084632
They really jacked off hard. I like so much of what it is but yeah the upgrade density is absolutely fucked.

>>731072713
I got them for every Metroid game cause Metroid has fun movement and shortcuts. The Fusion and Zero Mission 100% sub-2 hour runs are very demanding though.

>>731084654
I can think of one usecase (Mount Fay), but yeah you're right.

>>731068045
>replay
Do you have bad memory? Suffering from spells of amnesia?

>>731068669
Those numbers are always marketing bullshit. It never takes me that long.

The new healing system really fucked the balance between healing and using silk skills and nuked the balance in general, forcing devs to overbuff most sources of damage and make enemies into sponges. Shell shards are just a cherry on top of the shit pile.

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>>731084490
Anon with all my respect that you just lost in this thread you're a fucking retard.

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>>731068045
Took me 120 hours for three full playthroughs, including a 100% steel soul one.

>>731084683
The one attack you're terrified to dodge doesn't exist in a vacuum, if you're more at risk of being hit by it than others that is because of a failure on your part to position properly.
>no the hit itself is fine the consequences are too harsh!
Then let yourself be out of position for one of the non-threatening moves that don't coat you in maggots to ensure you're never out of position for the one that coats you in maggots.

>>731080996
Not even Hornet truly wishes to save Lace, she's just doing it because otherwise the kingdom is completely fucked and GMS will go apeshit.

>>731084880
Silksong gets way easier after around Trobbio because you start getting the actually insane tools and finally get past 6 masks. It’s funny how at launch everyone was like “aieee poison is so overpowered!” when it’s not even that good compared to the absolute insane stuff you can get.

>>731084991
OR I can drop this game because resource fucking me is megagay.

>>731080220
>speedtranny
Silktroons not beating the allegations

>>731084648
I simply dislike that you have to fight the boss by his rules with no wiggle room in a docile manner.
I actually hated the Shakra fight for the same reason in this one but to a lesser extent. Fuck all the niggers who teleport and hog control of the flow of the fight.

>>731085050
>spend resources wrong
>get no returns on them
>"WTF bad game"

>>731068269
how can you bear to 100% a game thats not that good? did you change your mind on the game after the fact?

especially knowing its a MV and you're going to be coasting around just collecting useless shit to clean up the remaining achievements

>>731084880
It's not really any different from how it worked in Hollow Knight. Strike to gain soul/silk, which can then be used to focus/bind to heal, or to use spells/silk skills. The only change is Hornet can use additional subweapons too, at the price of shell shards. So if you're overrelying on tools to get through fights it means you're bruteforcing it instead of focusing on the fundamentals of the game's combat. Or you're using the Architect crest, in which case that's by design.

>>731085137
Yes. Ever since Act 2 the shards payouts have been low. I used to have a comfortable stack of shards just from fucking playing. Not anymore.

>>731068045
>60 hours for true end
>90 hours for 100%
wow you really fucking suck.

>>731085213
I never ran out of shards and felt I was using a healthy amount of tools. Spamming Pimpillo on every attempt of every boss is not normal.

>>731068045
>>90 hours to get 100%
I got it under 60 hours on my first playthrough tho?

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I'm more excited about this than the upcoming DLC. It will probably end up having a better story than vanilla too.
https://youtu.be/e88caZ9dmOQ?si=caR2ZxuJ4rvtWplh

>>731085108
But those are the best fights. Having "control" of the flow is an illusion in the first place, you're always playing by the enemy's rules in the end.

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>>731085048
>Fight Trobbio
>Oh cool fireworks, I'll put the magma bell on since it helps against fire damage
>It doesn't reduce the damage of fireworks

>>731085191
In the original HK you can alternate between a spell cast and healing a single mask, with the downside of only healing on the ground.
This means you always have options for how to spend your Soul just after a few hits against the enemy.
In Silksong the healing is ridiculously overpowered and almost impossible to punish, but the caveat is that it consumes the entire spool aka 3 spell casts. This makes healing insanely more powerful and valuable than casting a spell, ruining the balance between the mechanics.
Shell shards are just ass, people shat on this consumable design in both Sekiro and Bloodborne, it's literally the worst way to organize subweapons i can think of. A simple vancian system with tools refreshing on rest would accomplish literally the same thing without punching down failing players or making it feel you're being punished for using your tools.

>>731085001
NTA but Hornet also sees Lace as a similar being to the Knight and the Hollow Knight. For as much as she admonished and antagonized the Knight, she admits here that she was just fucking terrified of the void and believed it was always chaotically destructive and dangerous, and regrets both her half-brothers having to sacrifice themselves to save Hallownest. So she wouldn't let the past repeat itself again with Lace.

>>731085285
>Pimpillo
I don't have that. I've been using the triple daggers and the tacks because the tacks seem like free damage vs her moveset and the dagger fan is just solid as fuck. Poisoned because I want more damage.

>>731085364
Why would fireworks do fire damage?

>>731085364
Fireworks do blast damage, anon. Not fire damage. You dummy.

>>731085429
I'm aware of the parallelisms, but all of this kind of falls flat when Hornet spends being a ruthless murderhobo through the entirety of the game and that's never put into question. You can even kill Lace's (more tragic) sister, and that's something not acknowledged even once in the story.

Now that I've passed Bilewater, I already know what "that part" is that will make me avoid playing this game more than once.

>>731085405
Weavelight doubles the passive speed of silk regeneration and provides an additional silk heart, meaning you can always passively regen enough for a silk skill. It's critical for Shaman, but also really good for most other crests too if you plan to use silk skills at all. I spam silk spear like there's no tomorrow, it fucks shit up.

>>731085663
>that part
The entirety of Silksong is "that part"

>>731085663
Bilewater is 100% optional though

>>731085436
Then stop using all of them every attempt. Christ.

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I remember having to ask /v/ for advice to get to a flea I had no idea where the fuck it was, and then it turns out it wasn't necessary to get to act 3.
The game is great and the combat is fair, no boss felt hard to get filtered, but holy shit I got stuck like 4 times failing to discover a necessary area.
I defeated the coral tower and then I got stuck again and I haven't played since, if I checked a guide I would've probably completed the whole thing in under 30 hours but then I would've been a shitter.
For example, I remember a metal door that couldn't been opened, so I thought to myself it would open in act 3, that didn't happen and that's the only flea I haven't found.

>>731085794
Too late already broke and annoyed. Might come back in 2-3 months like I did last time.

>>731085823
>For example, I remember a metal door that couldn't been opened, so I thought to myself it would open in act 3, that didn't happen and that's the only flea I haven't found.
The one in far fields?
I don't know how to open that either

>>731085337
By control I mean the boss setting incredibly tight and clear windows for you to get a hit in.
Every time I had to do that 4-fire-gazer virgin walk under Grimm for that 1 hit before he just disappears, it felt so demeaning.
>No, you will get damage in only how we dictate. If you deviate then 2 masks please.
I don't like it, and I have no patience to attune to such a strict pace.

>>731085637
Hornet acknowledges in the journal that Phantom was very old and wanted to go out in battle, which she obliged. She refuses to do the same for other duels to the death, instead deciding to spare her defeated opponent and telling them to survive instead.

>>731085734
Passive generation means jack shit in combat, it's still too slow. You're always better off saving for a heal.

>>731085429
>>731085637
Plus, "Lace is just like the vessels" is kind of bullshit when there’s very little actual showing and way too much telling and left up in the air. What exactly makes her existence so pitiable a pathetic? That she's an immortal mesugaki? We know of Phantom, but we are also left to assume the reason she's so withered is due to GMS abandoning her and secluding her in place filled with silk-eating bugs.

>>731085741
By this point calling the 3rd act optional, considering the amount of bosses, two whole-ass abilities, a crest, and tools, is kind of silly.

>>731085945
>No, you will get damage in only how we dictate.
That's every fight in the game. Every single enemy dictates how you're allowed to damage it. What you like is that for most enemies and even many bosses the answer is "basically whenever they don't have a hitbox out".
In other words, you like it when the game is easier. That's fine! Just say that.

All the complaints about Bilewater boss is interesting since my experience was radically different. Once I found sawtooth circlet earlier in the game I basically never took it off cause the damage felt absurd especially against large enemies and it absolutely demolished the boss by spam jumping + attacking with it equipped.

>>731086106
>>731086106
Truly good games offer you ways to learn how to take more turns away from the enemy. Team Cherry just want you to memorize the fight like it's a fucking Guitar Hero Expert Mode track.

I still think this is a good game but his critique is completely valid: "Simon Says" is the worst boss design ethos.

>>731085637
>Hornet spends being a ruthless murderhobo through the entirety of the game
All the normal enemies are corpses/machines manipulated by GMS.
All bosses are either mindless beasts or actively hostile (Lace's sister fought and died by her own will).
All heart-bosses either give permission or had no control over themselves with the Green Prince being the sole exception.

>>731085914
Yes, that one. Given the experience so far we probably have to open a way from a completely different area and end up on the other side.

>>731086071
That regeneration is supplanted by any damage at all. I beat Karmelita the first time with Shaman, essentially just dodging her and spamming Pale Nails whenever I had enough silk to. Now I prioritize healing if necessary, but if I don't need to heal and I have enough silk then it's getting used for silk skills to speed fights up.

>>731086230
So yes, you like it when enemies let you have more turns.
>making more turns isn't the same thing as being given more turns
It really is.

>>731070141
Metanarratively, the player is punished for going for 100% completion with an unfun, dreary and "dark" third act.

What would be 100% success (killing and absorbing the villain outright) is turned into a failure of giant proportions. Sucks the fun out of the game and made me quit.

Winning and then being rugpulled is not fun.

>>731086354
>So yes, you like it when enemies let you have more turns.
No I like it when I can flex skill and knowledge to earn more turns.
>It really is.
Nope, the skill/knowledge test provides a sense of satisfaction and mastery.

>>731086356
I liked act 3. It answered lots of questions and altered the world in an interesting way.

>>731086234
Green Prince conclusion is probably the most shoddily written part of the game.

>>731070175
Nonsense homo-speak for "we want our ebin last fight in the bowels of Liquid Death and don't know how else to do it".

Undermines Void as well. How about that. There's nothing about Hollow Knight Silksong will not tarnish by its inclusion.

>>731086420
The extra turns you "make" are present in the enemy from the beginning. Always.

>>731086106
>That's every fight in the game
Again, very few bosses do it this strictly as Grimm. You seem to miss the distinction. You have a very set opportunity to damage him. You can learn the patterns of Zoat and Vessel and not virgin walk under their attacks to get one hit in. With Grimm, not only is it way too bothersome, but it's simply counterproductive because memorizing this rhythm is enough. It's not hard, but standing there amid spikes and just looking at him for several seconds because you know he will teleport for the next move before you can attack him is not only monotonous but also pejorative.

I wonder how much complaining regarding Act 3 would have been aVOIDed if the conclusion didn't revolve around saving Lace and the final boss was something else.

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>>731085448
because I believe it should

>>731086531
Yes but the act of being skillful enough to press those openings or even notice those openings is fun. It makes you as the player feel more like you're actually FIGHTING something instead of just doing the Macarena until the boss falls over.

>>731068045
Awesome, I'm only 22 hours in so that's a lot of peak

>>731086641
Lace is the biggest mistake of the game narratively. Especially when Sherma has x10 charisma. I guarantee if it was about saving Sherma it would at least give people actual motivation to finish the game.
Hell he's the only character in the game with a clear musical theme. They could utilize it in some way.

>>731086568
>Again, very few bosses do it this strictly
And the strictness is directly correlated with the difficulty.
>You can learn the patterns of Zoat and Vessel and not virgin walk under their attacks to get one hit in.
They still limit how much damage you can effectively deal to them through their design.
>standing there amid spikes and just looking at him for several seconds because you know he will teleport for the next move before you can attack him is not only monotonous but also pejorative
You seem under the impression that because the boss isn't moving and doesn't have a hitbox on them right now that they're obligated to let you hit them and are being robbed when you don't get to. I'm sorry that you're used to bosses that are less strict. That doesn't mean they're better, it means they're easier.

>>731086089
You're arguing Hornet's point there. Lace sees herself as just a doll, created as a substitute in the wake of the Weavers who fled Pharloom or died because Silk wanted a daughter, when Silk really wanted her departed Weavers instead. She's not a bug and has to survive by the grace of a god, which is a worthless half-life of an existence that she rages at the rest of the world for. She's probably not allowed to die either, Silk could just restore her body with new silk when needed.

Hornet's argument is "it doesn't matter how you came into existence or what you are, the fact is you're alive at all, so stop trying to destroy yourself because of it."
Which is funny given she spends her time in the Slab massacring the jailerflies, and hopes the line will die off when the Broodmother is slain.

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>>731086661
The fact that they gave him that balloon burst attack that triggers 3 times depending on his health is hysterical to me.
It's like they knew you would be mentally groaning at the amount of damage you are dealing with, so they gave you indicators of how far you are actually into the fight.
>Hold tight buddy he did the balloon attack the 3rd time just a little more virgin walking for one nail hit, don't get greedy now

>>731086797
>Hell he's the only character in the game with a clear musical theme
Shakra and Phantom too. Why doesn’t Lace have more emphasis on music, anyway?

>>731086797
There's like 3 different game narratives nestled into Silksong.

In HK they smartly gave the main character some serious connections to the land. You explored your birthplace.

This is only tangentially true for Silksong. There are ancestral lands there, but they are two entire cultures separated from where Pharloom is now. And the lines between these cultures are blurred, so it feels like Hornet doesn't really have much to do with these people.

Not like The Hollow Knight, who is truly the kin of the protagonist and his dark mirror, one you also can replace or save.

HK simply is more narratively solid as a whole. They should've picked one story to tell for SS

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Yeah, I was happy to leave that filthy place, but now there's a fucking quest where you have to keep killing enemies to collect meat. Holy shit. I can't see any possibility that the devs made this area other than out of spite.

>>731086661
And then NKG demands you use the skill level other bosses give you two hits per cycle for to land your hit in the first place. Which is harder.
>but if I don't control how often I hit them-
You do. Every attack you have to pass up the opening on to heal or just to finish dodging is a failure on your part.

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>>731079275
Okay loser

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Lace would've been 120% better if she acted more ojou-like

>>731087082
Silksong feels as if they played Blasphemous and wanted to do something similar regarding the church and worship themes and just slammed Hornet in the middle of it.

>>731068045
Good game. I'm probably never going to bother with the speed run or steel soul cheevos, but still. Also managed to miss the cursed ending due to avoiding spoilers.

My only real complaint about Silksong is that Lost Lace is kind of a shit boss. "Let's give the player a fuck huge room to fight this boss only to punish them for moving!" - someone on the dev team (probably)

>>731087236
She was, she's just barely around for you to care about her. Hornet in Hollow Knight has more scenes than Lace

>>731086956
She's just a lil racist that's all

>>731087236
She would still be a shitty character.

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>>731087368

>>731086979
>It's like they knew you would be mentally groaning at the amount of damage you are dealing with, so they gave you indicators of how far you are actually into the fight.
Fuck that's probably true

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Speaking of Blasphemous parallels, this dude has ten times the charisma of Lace despite only appearing in the finale. He also fulfils the same function narratively but way better.
Same with Eviterno in 2.

>>731086882
>And the strictness is directly correlated with the difficulty
Difficulty is in the tedium of you having to adhere to his pace. There is nothing difficult in actually reading his attacks or really dodging them for that matter. Hey, next time, how about paint on the wall as a boss? You have to wait 6 hours for him to dry; if you move, that's two masks.
>They still limit how much damage you can effectively
Sure, by putting you directly into the way of their attacks, not teleporting the fuck away before you can do one.
>that they're obligated to let you hit them and are being robbed when you don't get to
There is no robbing. You are by design of the fight, which isn't meant to reach him more than once. I guess that's the difficulty - realizing just how little you are actually allowed to do in the fight.

>>731086432
Karmelita has different dialog depending on when you kill her and if you're doing do with her permission or not. Talk to her first and she'll wish the Skarr well in her Needolin dialog. Don't talk to her and just play Elegy of the Deep and her Needolin dialog instead will curse Hornet as the "pale beast" who came to steal her heart, and wishes the Skarr to never forgive her. After you kill her Gilly will eventually show up in her throne room, revealing to Hornet that Karmelita's presence was invigorating the entire Far Fields ecosystem, and with her dead it will now die off, and she wonders if the price to save Pharloom was really worth it.
If you kill Karmelita after obtaining the Everbloom Hornet says that she did it to prepare herself to descend below.

>>731087523
>There is nothing difficult in actually reading his attacks or really dodging them for that matter.
Ah yes, that's why you can only hit him once per cycle, because the attacks are easy.
>a long sequence with minimal room for deviation that doesn't either extend the sequence or bring you closer to failure isn't hard because... I say so!
Sure buddy.
>by putting you directly into the way of their attacks, not teleporting the fuck away before you can do one.
Failing to understand your opening and being out of position for the boss's next attack is a punishment. These are the same level of punishment, even.
>I guess that's the difficulty - realizing just how little you are actually allowed to do in the fight.
Very much so, given how many people are still trying to pretend they're supposed to be allowed to do those things and the fight is just bad for not letting them.

>>731087753
>Hornet kills the only alive and fun culture in Pharloom because fuck the player lmao more yuri fanfic baiting pls

>>731087097
>Architect misses the pogo
lel
and you don't have to complete that quest in bilewater, you can leave and return to just turn in the meat

>>731072713
Depends on the type of game. For a game like Metro yeah absolutely. The Seplunky/Spelunky 2 speedrunning achievements are ludo

>>731087303
I actually think Lace 2 is harder than Lost Lace. Lost Lace gives you so many openings it's unreal, while Lace 2 is brutally punishing because Lace is almost always either attacking or parrying.

>defeat bell eater
>game surprisingly gives you a better fast travel
Maybe Act 3 ain't so bad after all.

>>731068206
if it was just the difficulty id agree but there are some objectively pretty shit choices behind silksong

>>731069296
Metroid Fusion?

>>731087851
I mean if you want to take Karmelita as an example she fucked over the Sands of Karak and the Shellwood too by claiming the hearts of Crust King Khann and Nyleth. Verdania was already dead, but seems to start to slowly regrow since clover sprouts around the Green Prince after that's done.

>>731087785
>that's why you can only hit him once per cycle
Teleporting to the other side of the room you are standing on might have something to do with it.
Dodge the incredibly transparent attack, and get one nail in. Or face roll into said, take damage, and don't get any hits. Difficult dilemma. Engaging choices of how to proceed. Truly the player is free to choose any option from the above.
>a long sequence with minimal room for deviation
Yes, tedium is hard to sit through. That's like my initial point from the get-go. It's even harder when you have to be hammered down that the game expects you to partake in said monotony.
You can find one easily punishable attack in every boss and just wait/fish for it for one hit once every 30 seconds. Except it's a requirement for Grimm for some reason.
>Failing to understand your opening
There is no opening. There are attacks that let you squeeze in one hit as he lingers, which you are labeling openings. You are almost never presented with the opportunity to actually dash to him and face roll the damage out of turn, because he will fucking teleport anyway. The exception is the 4-gazer attack, but you have to time and space the spawn way too early, and even then it might result in one extra hit before it fucks off to do spikes of whatever the fuck.
>given how many people are still trying to pretend they're supposed to be allowed to do those things
Nearly every other boss does allow for you to set up more than two windows where you can do damage. Note that you are setting them up, not boss graciously allowing you to dodge the same 3 bats that fly in the same pattern for one hit on him.

Go pogo on Ballow's head for a little bit and watch Forge Daughter's reaction.

>>731088308
That may be true, but I'm just sour that Lost Lace forces you to play in a way that I don't enjoy.

>>731088489
God I hate the Bell Eater fight. Even with efficient charged attack and volt filament strats, it still insists way too hard on itself.

>>731069484
You might actually be retarded.

>>731089172
Speaking of Volt Filament, the amount of people I've seen that completely miss Voltnest is insane. They take a initial guess in that room in the Sands of Karak to see if there's a secret, fuck up the jump, and say "guess not" and leave.

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>>731088886
Neat

>>731089479
His hatred of working conditions is what prevents him from being silked.

>>731070761
>silktrannies: malding
>point: not refuted
Love to see it

The Unravelled is such a garbage boss it's unreal. Doubly so that it's made of literal garbage too.

>>731068045
Correct. The original Hollow Knight was already too long.

>>731078434
>Who the fuck goes to Ducts before Bilewater?
Someone who's struggling in Bilewater and has other places they could go

>>731068045
????
You doubled the times to get each of those.
30 for true end and 40-43 for 100%.
Stop being a fucking loser.

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>>731068045
>90 hours for 100%

The Underworks enemies are the worst enemy group aside from the fucking Burning Bugs in Wisp Thicket.

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Rest in pieces my lil nigga
Wageslaved until he couldn't

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>>731068045
>>90 hours to get 100%
Are you retarded? Pic related was from my first clear.

>>731082737
thats fyne

>>731084632
It's the densest metroidvania ever made and you want rosaries because you're a shitter who's gonna lose them

>>731086105
It's literally optional

>>731068045
It should be 1/10 of the length. This game sounds awful to play if that is a case.

>>731086105
The entire game is optional. Nobody's forcing you to play it.

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>It's the densest metroidvania ever made

>>731080865
>the play time is cut by more than half
Which is still a lot of fucking time for type of genre this game is. It gets old very fast.

>>731093942
Only a shitter with no taste would complain about a good game having content

>>731094049
Nice padded "content" you got there.

>>731094218
You can call being a shitter whatever you want, your mindset is to get to the end of the game so you can feel accomplished. But you picked up this game wanting a cozy comfy hot choccy experience, no bitch it's a video game get good.

>>731094474
What the fuck are you talking?