A "downgraded" art with firmer grasp on the basics is preferable to the generic crap blurring together on the bottom. Also, successful indies have sucked and were frauds before tiktok or whatever boogeyman you're conjuring up. Just release your insipid clone that brings nothing to the table already and move on to the next scam.

>>731130714
>A "downgraded" art with firmer grasp on the basics is preferable to the generic crap blurring together on the bottom
Lol

>>731130591
Post more "memes" of that brown girl, please.

The art is fine, now make it look fun to play

The problem is that most indie audiences grew up with Nintendo and phone games, this has taught entire cohorts of people that "gameplay" is the most important thing in a game at the expense of any soul or substance the game might have

Gameplay is obviously important but it's like cinematography in movies, it's there to convey the actual experience rather than being the end goal in itself, gameplay focused games lack substance just like cinematography focused movies

>>731130591
You needed some kind of epiphany that it takes more work to produce better results?

>>731130902
Gameplay is the only thing important to most game products though.

You're confused about what you're observing. It's not that those games "focus on gameplay" it's that they don't offer anything. They're just pointless retreads with no reason to have been made

Your attempt at a point is further defeated by phenomena like vampire survivors. Offering basically nothing but gameplay and excelling. Though I will say VS was high on soul. The guy knew how to make it feel gripping

>>731130591
bottom is a waste of time.
Look at this most generic gameplay. A boring 3 hit sword combo and dumb enemies just running into you.
Not only this, but there are like 4 types of enemies and they all behave the same

>>731130902
You are retarded.

>>731130943
I needed an epiphany to realize that making soulful games is a full time job that doesn't earn the money to justify its existence

It takes far more time but earns you far less money
>do it because you love it
That's a nice a sentiment but I also need to eat

File: maxresdefault.jpg (107 KB, 1280x720)

107 KB JPG

>>731131001
>Gameplay is the only thing important to most game products though
It's not though

>Your attempt at a point is further defeated by phenomena like vampire survivors. Offering basically nothing but gameplay and excelling. Though I will say VS was high on soul.
Perfect example, literal soulless phone game slop with zero substance, that got huge because indie audiences believe nothing matters except the fastest and cheapest dopamine hits possible

The game equivalent to "cutting jelly with red hot knife" videos

>>731130591
top looks better

>>731131012
They play the same

>>731131197
>It's not though

You don't like video games. VNs aren't video games

>>731131313
Your idea of a good video game is a digital fidget spinner and you deny any attempts to do more with the medium past the most rudimentary dopamine farming possible, I would say it's you who doesn't like videogames

>>731130591
no one likes a tryhard

>>731130591
Watched the video before reading and my first immediate thought was that the 2nd was more artistically generic and lacked the charm of the first one, like the idle animations. That said, the first looks clearly amateur and without polish.

There's a balance, but imho I wouldn't consider the first game for purchase by the video alone unless it became popular enough to prove it was more than just shovelware because, again, the lack of polish is very apparent. On the flip side, a game that is actually enjoyable to play will make me buy all the DLC you put out so I can play more.

>>731131651
You are unable to admit to yourself that you spent your life pursuing playing with toys

It's ok anon

>>731131001
>Your attempt at a point is further defeated by phenomena like vampire survivors. Offering basically nothing but gameplay and excelling.
I'm not saying he's entirely right but you just used the worst argument possible. God damn are you fucking stupid.

>>731132547
Honest question which you should be able to answer if you're white (you're not)

What was the point of making your post without stating why the argument is bad? Like what was actually the point. You don't understand how to interact with people or, more cogently, like a person.

Who could expect you to have good thoughts on this matter

>>731131197
A game with bad gameplay is invariably dogshit. A game with nothing BUT gameplay is not. Something like ToME has way the fuck more substance than whatever shit movie game you want to shill.

>>731130714
Fpbp

>>731132692
It's self-evident if you're not sub-80 IQ. Your entire concept of purposeful gameplay design is drip-feeding dopamine. That is profoundly sad. This whole argument is so above your understanding that you're not fit to participate. Go play with the other retarded kids and let the adults do the talking, okay?

>>731130902
It's the opposite retard
Good movies have good stories. Gameplay is story/plot in movies
Cinematography is artstyle/graphics. Retard

>>731132937
Bot

>>731133004
Seething retard lol

>>731132797
>>731132960
Nah in every medium focusing just on the means of the medium means the actual substance always suffers, gameplay is to games what prose is to books or cinematography is to movies, and books with nice prose but poor substance and movies with nice cinematography but poor storytelling are always vapid crap

You need good prose/cinematography/gameplay to hold up good substance, but the means themselves alone are never worth it

>>731133287
Games aren't books and movies. These analogies are pointless and objectively useless

This is how stupid people attempt to discuss things just fyi from a white person

>Duhh actually x isn't
No it isn't you fucking cretin lol

>>731133287
Wrong. You don't know what the fuck you're talking about.

>>731133379
>actually x is y

Autocorrect

>>731133379
Games are a medium, like books and movies

In every medium you have the point, the substance, the experience, and then you have the means with which you convey that point, in books it's the way the words are put together on the page, in movies it's the way the pictures move on the screen, in games it's the way the game plays, they all exist to serve a higher purpose and aren't the purpose in and of themselves

>>731133390
Ironic given that you don't have an argument

File: Nethack.gif (4 KB, 579x276)

4 KB GIF

>>731133287
>No graphics to speak of
>No audio
>No plot worth talking about
>Pure gameplay
>Hurrrr it has no substance
You are a massive retard. Fuck off back to Sony.

>>731132061
>my first immediate thought was that the 2nd was more artistically generic and lacked the charm of the first one
zoomers are cooked fr fr ong

>>731133523
The point is entertainment. You get entertainment through gameplay.

>>731133379
No, his analogy makes perfect sense according to each medium. Maybe you're just too low-IQ to understand.
>from a white person
You keep saying that. I don't claim your retarded ass, you belong with the niggers.

File: 11339.jpg (51 KB, 570x760)

51 KB JPG

>>731133536
Correct, if all you're doing is watching mechanics revolve then you're thinking of games as meaningless timewasting toys, like fidget spinners or water ring games, and not a medium, in which case your input on them as a medium is meaningless as well

>>731132547
if you are italian VS is indeed filled with soul

>>731130591
next time be more original than "popular game but no budget"

>>731130902
>video GAME has too much GAMEplay
Holy shit this might actually be the most cement-brained take on /v/, the fuck do you mean by this

>>731133710
No, and fuck off you pretentious fart huffer. Stop trying to make video games into something they're not.

>>731133632
Your argument could be used to explain why Mr Beast videos or soifacing streamers are better moving pictures than movie classics

>>731133632
That's the worst point you could have made

>>731133852
No, it couldn't, because at no point do you have to engage your brain to understand any of that garbage.

>>731130591
>I'm not going to post my game but the downgrade is close to going from the art on the bottom to the art on the top in pic related
good, top is at least recognizable as something a person would make, bottom is just a generic secret of mana clone slop

>>731133889
>vampire survivors requires engaging your brain

>>731133710
>Nethack
>All you're doing is watching mechanics revolve

Well you lost that argument badly

You should go play nethack. Vns aren't games and also the writing of them is embarrassingly bad and only for undeveloped people

>>731133938
>there are only fidget spinners and vns
You lost

>>731133930
Yes.

>>731130591
Bottom looks better. Undertalefags might like the top better, they're used to lazy Toby Fox shit.
Zoomers will watch a bunch of YouTube videos about the 90s and tell you like they're experts that the bottom doesn't look like how SNES games were because it's technically impossible to have that many colors or resolution, but in reality it does LOOK more like an SNES game than the top which looks more like someone fucking around in game maker for an hour in the mid 2000s.

>>731133710
A game with bad gameplay is worthless. Everything else is optional, and none of them can salvage a game with bad gameplay.

>>731134196
A game with bad substance is even more worthless

>>731133710
You're wrong because you think "gameplay" is nothing but dopamine dispensing. The anon you were arguing with earlier is wrong because he thinks the same thing, except he's even dumber and thinks that that's a good thing.
No, gameplay IS substance, mechanical interactions carry meaning in and of themselves. Every artistic medium has its own internal language - prose, cinematography and gameplay all carry aesthetic ideas that are unique to their medium and can't be expressed in any other way. This is true regardless of any explicit, rational ideas that they may or may not be in service to.

Top could work as a twin stick coop shooter.

Bottom looks great as the Secret of Mana/Evermore/Seiken 3 inspired game it is. (That I assume is also coop)

Why not sell both games?

>>731134234
Substance as you use it is a meaningless weasel word. I don't give a shit about your opinion if you're not playing roguelikes.

>>731134249
>No, gameplay IS substance, mechanical interactions carry meaning in and of themselves
You are wrong, those mechanical interactions by themselves are worthless if they're not supporting some greater idea

Even SMB has you as an underdog plumber braving an evil kingdom to save a princess, if it was about a square jumping on other square enemies and square platforms it would've been far less notable

If gameplay is substance on its own in games then moving in movies is substance on its own, and a movie of nothing but keys jingling is also substance

I think Vib Ribbon is one of the best pure video games as all time. Like a game as art

Can anybody tell me what the substance of vib ribbon is

>>731130591
The background that takes 1 hour to make conveys:
"This is a forest"
The background that takes 10,000 hours to make conveys:
"This is a forest"

Spending your time on something doesn't inherently give it value
I don't play vidya for the graphics. I don't remember the graphics most of the time
The story and the gameplay matter. Art is mostly filler

>>731134469
>>731134481
Lmao your argument was instantaneously defeated by my post about Vib Ribbon which wasn't even directed at you

YOU LOST, leave bro, you fucking suck at arguing

I don't know what bottom is but I think it looks nice.

>>731134196
>Everything else is optional, and none of them can salvage a game with bad gameplay.
I wish this was true, but then you go to look at the most popular RPGM Maker shit and it's all garbage with all art, no gameplay, while the opposite (gameplay-focused games) get absolutely no attention.

>>731134510
good art enhances both gameplay and story.

>>731134592
It can enhance what is there, but the core of the game will stick with you longer then the art

File: 3209.jpg (110 KB, 640x416)

110 KB JPG

>>731134481
Vib Ribbon is to games what a visualizer is to movies

A game is like a burger
If your burger doesn't have high quality toppings (good art/music/story) to support the meat (gameplay) then your burger will be bland
And who doesn't like a nice juicy burger with quality toppings? :)

>>731134696
I don't eat my burgers with toppings.

>>731134662
More people remember how JRPG characters, stories, places, music etc made them feel than anyone can remember an individual game of Tetris

>>731134754
It's okay anon, I know autistic people can be picky eaters

>>731134685
>A visualizer is a rhythm game that requires controller input to function and has barely any visuals

Dude take it from an older man. You need to understand and acknowledge losing arguments to grow

You lost. Stop trying. It's embarrassing now

>>731134759
>argumentum ad populum
I don't care. I remember the actual PLAYING THE GAME part more than I do any character or story, and only remember places and music insofar as they interact with PLAYING THE GAME. Crystal Project is one of the best JRPGs ever made and it has no plot and royalty free music.

>>731134759
But they do remember tetris?
And the story and characters are the heart of what they remember about the jrpg's. Even when the art was low-poly and/or pixelated

>>731134836
Movies don't require interaction, they require movement, visualizers have movement

Vib Ribbon is that but for games, where interaction (input) is replacing the movement, you might be too old if you couldn't put that together on your own

>>731134860
You might be autistic

>>731130591
Sadly, there's some truth to that. While there is a benefit to getting it done now and improving it later, most people aren't going to pay extra for exceptional looking pixelart. Owlboy spent like a decade working on its pixel art, but it sells for the same price as any other indie platformer with basic stick figures. It's sad to say, but high quality pixelart isn't an actual selling point.

>>731130714
OP isn't talking about a grasp on mechanics, just production speed and grabbing media attention.

>>731134872
>>And the story and characters are the heart of what they remember about the jrpg's. Even when the art was low-poly and/or pixelated
You're talking about the graphics and I'm talking about the art, ironically the low poly and pixelated games had better art than games today

I think more people will look fondly back on the art of e.g. the Mana games than the graphics of RDR2

>>731134939
No, I'm just not accepting your horseshit appeals to popularity. Play an actual fucking game.

>>731134469
>those mechanical interactions by themselves are worthless if they're not supporting some greater idea
Wrong, gameplay inherently expresses something by its very existence. Simply the act of designing gameplay one way, but not another way, expresses a set of aesthetic values.

>>731135043
You could say the same about shooting the jingling keys from various angles and lighting conditions

>>731134897
Bro what the fuck are you talking about. You are twisting yourself into a pretzel. Just stop it's unbecoming. This behavior makes other people uncomfortable lol

I know you don't have any experience with actually talking to people in real life or anything. That's so crazy about your generation

You lost kid go lick your wounds stop digging the grave

the most important aspect of games is the story. it could be the story the player comes up with while playing, but games that don't have or don't elicit a narrative are just distractions for soulless automatons that live among us masquerading as humans.
if you disagree, square up to me at the gym and we'll see how strong your arguments are against my fists. bitch.

>>731134696
A wise man once said "Taste the meat, not the heat" and I'd like to believe he would group toppings in with the heat.

>op talks about how the market is in such a bad state that there's no need to make good games anymore when slop sells better
>retards derail it into "muh story vs gameplay" shit
Man, it's so tiring being around low IQ illiterate subhumans.

>>731135117
Pretty strong because I have a gun, apparently.

>>731135154
Not understanding why slop sells better than actually good games makes you the low IQ illiterate subhuman.

>>731130902
This is the best bait I've seen in a while. Gonna save this for later.

the bottom graphics are much better though
top literally looks like mspaint

>>731135103
Sorry your dementia got exposed old man

gameplay the essence of a video game. gameplay is what sets video games apart from other forms of entertainment. therefore gameplay is objectively the most important part of a video game.

>>731135205
Pathetic retort.

>>731135475
I accept your concession

>>731135542
There's nothing to concede to a subhuman like you.

>>731131052
>I needed an epiphany to realize that making soulful games is a full time job that doesn't earn the money to justify its existence
Unless you win

>>731135360
Yeah I'm getting really tired of this performative reddit shit where we pretend the 2006 browser flash game shit at the top is better because it's freakin soulful quirky wholesome. Not that I'm losing sleep over how some Secret of Mana knock-off turns out anyway, might as well add some Earthbound-esque HUMOR and PSYCHOLOGICAL elements.

>>731131052
if you know what you're worth then go out and get what you're worth

>>731135093
Yes? Are all possible creative choices negated by the fact that shot in question is of jingling keys?

gameplay is a vague and meaningless term.
the word you're looking for is interactivity

>>731130591
soulless
soulless

>>731130591
What you call downgrading is just smart use of your time.
People, even the dumbest ones, have a good ability to identify patterns. They noticed long ago that when indie developers are cutting corners on the most time-consuming parts, such as graphics, it's because they're focusing on things that usually make games more fun.
Indie games that look rougher have a good chance of being good in other areas, and people have learned this through observation.
This is the opposite of what happens with expensive productions. In those, crappy graphics are usually associated with disastrous development and broken games, and people have also identified this pattern.

Note: this high ability to identify patterns explains why anti-Semitism is so prevalent in all cultures throughout all ages.

File: Too much content.png (402 KB, 508x287)

402 KB PNG

>>731130902

>>731130591
Not a problem with Project Nortubel

File: dominions6.jpg (223 KB, 1024x576)

223 KB JPG

>>731130591
If your game is fun, graphics aren't important are are sometimes even optional.

>>731135917
So raw interactions and mechanics in games are meaningless without serving a greater purpose

>>731130591
congratulations, you have no standards.

>>731135360
>moving pictures are the most important aspect of a movie
They are the prerequisite for a movie to exist, but they are not the standard according to which movies are judged

>>731137374
A film is judged by its cinematography, not by its dialogue.

File: viper2.jpg (28 KB, 500x500)

28 KB JPG

>>731130591
If you actually think top looks better than bottom you are actually retarded and your favorite movie is a Marvel movie.

>>731136687
game?

>>731137462
They are judged by their story, the experience while watching, the emotions they cause

Avatar has great cinematography and earns billions, but people just don't care about them

>>731137676
bro, read the filename

When are indie devs going to progress past the SNES era? You realize you aren’t stuck with working at 240p anymore, right? Maybe this is why no one likes your “game”.

>>731130591
Bottom looks infinitely better. Sorry to the philistines here who don't understand pixel art, hue shifting, color pallets, or animation.

>>731138652
Both look like they have shit gameplay

>>731130591
>to make it look and feel as soulful as possible
by ripping off Secret of Mana? Yeah, that makes your game stand out among the army of soulless slopware that learned to do the same thing.

Have you ever had an original idea in your whole damn life?

File: Occasional Sibyl.gif (1.94 MB, 500x206)

1.94 MB GIF

>>731130591

This happens in any type of art form. Every fictional work is infinite; you can always add new things. In practice, everyone does what they can with the time they have.

>>731130591
top is bland
bottom is visual diarrhea

didn't read your post btw

>>731130902
If you're not making every moment of your game meaningful then it lacks substance. Fighting jrpg random encounter #323 is not meaningful.

>>731130714
>trying to discourage someone for no reason
you can't even tell what OP's point is, your opinion is worthless.

>>731130591
the pixel art of the top isnt the problem, but just layout design.
but of course the bottom is much prettier, but is impossible to make with just 1-3 people, and have a full game come out within your lifetime.

>>731132061
>2nd was more artistically generic and lacked the charm of the first one
I love how much people got programmed into thinking new better looking things are actually worse. It is just overcompensation. When you try to argue better looking graphics are actually worse you make your side look like retards.

>>731141390
I know who you are, you are all the exact same person. Self-important uncultured dweeb with no talent out to clone a game you don't comprehend even superficially. Join the line.

>>731141765
>I know who you are, you are all the exact same person
ah, schizophrenia.
Please continue, i need a good laugh today.

File: 122ad.jpg (46 KB, 512x512)

46 KB JPG

What a deeply unsettling thread

Games are fucked

Are we not going to acknowledge how the girls in the top frame reach behind them to grab and throw their poop at enemies and that this is just a retarded rpgmaker indian fetish game?

>>731135998
>They noticed long ago that when indie developers are cutting corners on the most time-consuming parts, such as graphics, it's because they're focusing on things that usually make games more fun.
This is not true though, the vast majority of successful indie games are slop

The quintessential indie game these days is a roguelite deck builder vampire survivors pixelshit clone, which is the game equivalent of a TikTok video vs a real game which would be a movie

>>731130591
Honestly I prefer the bottom if that helps OP. Normies are gigaretarded and their tastes don't count. Make art for it's own sake.

>>731133583
I'm probably older than you.

>>731141651
I didn't say NEW BETTER BAD, I just said more generic. For example, there's no idle animations in the update. I also said that the older didn't look polished and I wouldn't buy it because of that. The fact that you can't read actually makes you look retarded.

File: seyken.gif (291 KB, 550x597)

291 KB GIF

>>731133925
>>731140328
I feel like you misunderstood the point of the comparison, OP didn't say his visuals are LITERALLY like the bottom game, just that they were on the same level of effort and allegedly skill

And the art on the bottom does look good and has nothing to do with Secret of Mana in and of itself, it's the gameplay that's making it look like a Mana ripoff and OP didn't mention his game's genre

The graphics are actually partially reused from Seyken Crystal Kingdom, a failed MMO that wasn't really anything like SoM

>>731142909
>I didn't say NEW BETTER BAD
But you instantly started looking for old = better. You wouldn't pay attention to those things without being programmed to look for good things in old.

>>731142569
>real game which would be a movie
I'd agree with some of what you said but you went full retard in the opposite direction. A real game provides high value to cost ratio for the consumer, this entails replay-ability and there's plenty of ways to do that. Neither extreme of pixelshit or movie game do any of these, they provide very little value to the consumer for their comparatively high cost that's why they're so unbearably common. They're the two best strategies for parting retards with their money in the long term because they're constantly exhausting what little value there is and buying more.

>>731143134
I didn't say *moviegame* I said the game equivalent of a movie

>TikToks are quick to make and quick to consume
>they lack any substance whatsoever and exist solely to grab attention so the maker can make a couple of pennies from the view
>they are also rewatchable due to their short length but you quickly get bored due to lack of substance
>this is the exact same philosophy behind roguelite deck builder vampire survivors pixelshit

>movies take a long time to make and longer to consume compared to TikToks
>a good movie will have substance and artistic vision with value past what it makes in the box office
>a good movie will be rewatchable and will reward attentive viewers with new details every time
>this is the philosophy behind good, full games like the classics we used to have (not moviegames)

Indiefags never bother with the latter type of game because if your aim is to make money it's far safer to quickly churn out low risk slop that panders to current trends and algorithms instead of dumping 5+ years on a passion project that lives or dies based on how the Steam algorithm feels the day of release

>>731142973
That's entirely your own head canon.

>>731130591
there's something off about the bottom video that makes me think some of the assets were ai generated, specially that troll and one of the trees

>>731130902
This is the kind of person you share this board with.

>>731130591
More detail doesn't mean more soul
Just because bottom has more detail doesn't make it less generic or more interesting

>>731143746
People who are objectively right? Too rare these days

>>731143730
I wanted to meme on this comment but actually looking at that troll it does seem very unnaturally shaded. Like a higher resolution artstyle crunched down but without any natural dithering.

>>731130591
that's both lame and gay

>>731143789
The objectively correct opinion is that games are just as much an audio-visual medium as they are a kinetic medium and so the presentation matters just as much as the gameplay.

>>731143917
That's what >>731130902 is saying though

>indie pc gaming is literally turning into the same shit as mobile slop where instead of money you waste time
>steamjeets itt are arguing that this is okay because they're animals who can only operate off general consensus
Grim.

>>731143563
Don't bother anon. 99% of /v/ is functionally illiterate and no matter how much you break down even such basic concepts to them they'll never comprehend them. It's a lost cause.

>>731144015
Nintendo games have until very recently been universally considered the apex of both gameplay and aesthetic style. So the idea of blaming low effort visuals on Nintendo games is ridiculous, unless you're only talking about literal children.
Second, the idea that graphics can stand alone without gameplay is hilarious and is what lead to 7th gen moviegame slop and the current trend of heavily recycling gameplay content to pad out giant overdone open worlds.

File: 832.jpg (68 KB, 1024x1024)

68 KB JPG

>>731144416
>Nintendo games have until very recently been universally considered the apex of both gameplay and aesthetic style
This anon first started using the internet in 2017

>>731144494
I am 29 years old.
Sorry anon some of us remember the before times.

>>731131012
>boring 3 hit sword combo and dumb enemies just running into you
What else would you need?

File: 1675063624656653.jpg (233 KB, 848x900)

233 KB JPG

>>731130591
Because you changed from caring about the game to caring about social media engagement.
Was it not obvious to you beforehand that this would be the case?

>>731130591
Bottom looks better

>>731144596
So you would surely remember
>N64 being publicly humiliated on the world stage by the upstart PS1 whose games and technology defined games for decades to come
>GameCube being humiliated yet again as Nintendo doubled down on kiddy shit and proprietary formats
>Wii being ridiculed for trippling down on kiddy shit, appealing to casuals and seniors, wagglan gimmicks, and stagnant graphics
>Wii U somehow being a bigger failure than both N64 and the GameCube with Nintendo running to memoryhole it as soon as possible
>Nintendo constantly being mocked for making nothing but Mario #57 and Zelda #32 over and over again
>Nintendo constantly being called out for getting preferential treatment by casual journalists who want industry perks
Surely all of these would be familiar to people that have been using the internet for any amount of time prior to the Switch releasing

>>731130902
Gameplay is king. The "soul and substance" you're looking for is found from real human interaction.

>>731144949
right, the soul and substance of a game is the developer communicating with you, the player, something beyond "I want your money."

>>731130902
i think most indies would've grown up with the ps1 or ps2 now desu if you grew up with the nintendo you could be 40 and i don't think there's that many 40 year old indie devs

>>731144416
>Nintendo games have until very recently been universally considered the apex of both gameplay and aesthetic style
tendies are so fucking stupid man

File: 1768832905055174.jpg (119 KB, 1000x1213)

119 KB JPG

>>731130591
>Gameplay is king. While games are a wholistic experience people loved Cruelty squad, and hated Shadow of the beast because of gameplay.

>>731144890
Of those the N64 did at least have some games and technological developments that were highly relevant to the future of the industry. Didn’t prevent it from badly losing the gen but it did matter. The Wii also certainly had an impact, even if it wasn’t a good one.
Other than that you’re right though. The GameCube is THE nostalgiafag console and the Wii U was a razors edge from being Nintendo’s Dreamcast.

>>731130902
shut the fuck up you absolute fucking retarded bitch, what the fuck are you trying to say here
gameplay IS the end goal, a game with no gameplay is no game, a game with a shit story and good gameplay is still a good game, a game with no gameplay and a great story is not a good game, fucking mongrel

t. grew up on all the sega and jumped on sony and never touched a nintendo product until I traded my old yugioh deck for my friend's n64 because I wanted to try golden eye
get fucked

>>731145629
Prerequisite =/= most important or the end goal

You need a solid foundation to build a house but once you get past a basic threshold you can start worrying about actually important stuff like rooms, space, layout, furnishing etc, things that actually affect living quality

Only a retard would keep prioritizing the foundation after that threshold while neglecting the actual point of a house

Okay OP, I'll try to give my opinion here as a guy that's worked in the industry for a while;
It depends
There's no easy answer, it just depends on the game, because it's going to depend on the kind of audience you a) attracts and b) want to attract, if you make a game for a certain type of people, but attract another type of people through your advertising, you get everyone angry and you lose it all... or sometimes, but very rarely, it just works out and turns out the people that didn't know your game was made for them, was in fact, made for them, but this isn't something you can rely on, this is just a 'saved by the gong' moment

Meme potential is king if you're unknown and if you haven't released anything big before or with a cult following (aka doesn't need to be big, just passionate enough that they'll do the advertising for you, hollow knight is a pretty good example, elden ring as well, in both cases, their earlier games were not even close to being as popular as their releases simply because people believed in the studio enough and word of mouth yadda yadda), that's undeniable, I don't think I even need to bring examples here, schedule 1, megabonk, palworld, whatever big indie releases that came out of nowhere these last few years, most of it just got ported through the memes all over social media and people check it out and wham, but this is a very high risk high reward situation, if it works for you, good, but chances are; it won't, and so you can only rely on pushing out a quality product... that fits within expectations
And this is the very important part; the expectations, depending on your game, the genre, the competition in said genre, and thus the sort of people it will attract, their expectations will differ completely, and this means that you NEED to find the balance here, you need to push out something that's quality enough that these people will be happy with, while allowing you to keep on schedule, and that's the hardest part

>>731146196
>waah waah hollywood
shut the fuck up levine, get fucked
you're not making a house, you're making a game, do you know why the word GAME is in GAMEPLAY?
you're missing the most important part, that anything that ISN'T gameplay is nothing but fluff, it's the cherry on top, it's the shitty sprinkles they put all over the place, they're not important, people will eat that fucking muffin if the muffin's good, whether you add that retarded shit or not

>but it's more presentable
yes, it's important for marketing, but that's YOUR problem as the guy trying to sell a product, not my problem as the consumer, I want a good product and I don't care whether you sell your product to more people or not
aka, you're a faggot

>>731130591
both games look like low effort slop.
top has no detail and is extremely generic
bottom copied exactly what worked for other games and is thus extremely generic too.

I wouldn't play either game.
your game also sounds like slop. I don't play fotm meme games.

>>731146494
>hurr durr it's called VIDEO game not GAME video that mean graphic more important
Actual retard logic

>>731146269
And also, if you look at all the autists ITT whining about 'slop' and 'wouldn't play your game either way', gotta keep in mind that most of what drives game sales is peer pressure, simple as
As a general rule, a friend playing a game and enjoying it will probably share it with their circle of friends, and said circle of friend will most likely be into the same types of games, and if your game has meme potential, grab the attention of a streamer, streamer plays it and game looks high enough quality that player A decides to buy it too, then share it with their friends, and you get a ripple effect this way, but again to reach this point it needs to be high quality enough, memes alone isn't going to sell your game, not if you're serious and invested in it, it might work if your meme game is something you put together in a few months and went whatever like that climbing game that was popular a few years ago (don't even remember the name, don't care), then you can sell your meme for dirt cheap and if it reaches critical mass, you can make some money, but since you're an artist and you're putting in hours to do pixel art, I don't think this is a road that you should take

Really it just depends on too many factor, and luck as well, sometimes it just works and sometimes it doesn't, loads of games get only their recognition months or years after release and they got lucky they did, the market is just so fucking saturated nowadays

>>731130591
The one on the bottom will make people go "AI art! Prove it's not AI!" and it's impossible to prove that it's not AI (just look at the recent Postal debacle), which will instantly kill it due to all the virtue signaling from terminally online trans "people."

>>731130591
Gameplay comes first, and they both look like shit in this respect.
Focus on concept and the rest should fall into place.

File: file.png (124 KB, 815x1081)

124 KB PNG

>>731146731
why would you try to 'no u' me with such a stupid argument
video doesn't mean 'graphics' you retard, it means moving images, it's a form of medium not the fucking word from which the argument was derived from

>>731146731
Anon, I already told you it's pointless to argue with any of these animals. They're illiterate. They can't even understand simple analogies without completely misinterpreting them into something they're not, and here you are trying to convince them of a far more complex idea. It's like explaining calculus to a dog.

>>731146269
>>731147021
I don't have anything to add to the discussion but I wanted to thank you for posting something nuanced and insightful. Thank you based effortposter.

>>731144890
>if videogames look like cartoons that's objectively bad
What are you, 14?
The N64 and the GCN were both objectively better machines graphically than the PS1 and PS2 (GCN renders faster and at better resolution than PS2, but the PS2 is the king of multiple-texture transparencies so this argument is a little more up in the air) and Nintendo aimed at a timeless graphical style deliberately in those days while all 3D PS1 games looked like vomit and most PS2 games are generic anime.
And we haven't even touched the SNES.
Nintendo fell off on its hardware starting with the Wii but the high standard for visual style didn't start to fall apart until the late WiiU and Shitch 1 era.
So I guess if you're a youngfag you may have never experienced Nintendo actually fucking trying, and if you're still so totally bitchmade that you care about junior high students calling anything less brown and gritty than Call of Duty faggy then I just feel bad for you.

>>731138269
There is already a big trend of emulating the PS1 look happening.

>>731146494
>they're not important,
You're a retarded monkey.
Every aspect of a game is as important as the rest. A game with 10/10 gameplay, 10/10 graphics, and 10/10 story is still just a 7.5/10 if the sound is 0/10. Would it be a good game? Yeah, 7.5/10 is above good. But to make a masterpiece you need everything working in unison.
All of these categories can work seperately, but the absence of one or more will never be beneficial.

>>731130902
Post a game that has “substance” and no gameplay
>inb4 he posts a movie game

>>731149436
Sam and Max

>>731145195
Indie audiences, not devs, and most young people playing games today grew up with either a Wii or a Switch

>>making a game
>I'm not going to post my game
why the fuck did anyone post without sage after reading this combination
it's just retarded larp by someone who has a hatred of the game they're showing in the webm and wants to argue
at least sage if you want to epic own OP for his retarded nodev takes

>>731131052
>anon thinks adding soul to a game requires your entire focus
>so much so you have to quit the job that pays the bills
>completely contradicts the point of a game being soulful since it's no longer for the love of the craft, but rather a means to survive daily life due to lack of consistent revenue stream

>>731149974
>it's just retarded larp by someone who has a hatred of the game they're showing in the webm
What the fuck made you come to this conclusion

>>731130591
I actually really like the bottom one, where did you steal the seiken densetsu 3 aasets from?

>>731149974
Who the fuck would want to associate their game with /v/?

>>731150793
Why not? /v/ is responsible for my taste in games
Many devs got their start here

File: 1746716200834556.png (484 KB, 820x820)

484 KB PNG

>>731130714
FPBP
OP BTFO

>top looks like shit, zero budget pokemon type trash
>botom looks like an actual game with actual effort put into it
>contrarian retards including the supposed developer himself claim the top iteration is better

>>731130591
What you want is hit the middle ground. And to find the middle ground you have to go to both extremes. Find out what is the best you can do, then downgrade to the point where you are still satisfied but you are not spending literal days on every sprite.
I am lucky I don't have to do commissions, but that is the tightrope every artist has to walk if they are working on a project that is supposed to make money.

File: 1752454319094993.png (449 KB, 552x641)

449 KB PNG

>>731150793
>Who the fuck would want to associate their game with /v/?
I was about to shove like 20 more games into this picture and then i realized i don't give enough of a shit to argue about this, anyone who does the whole
>uhm i'm good at x but i won't show it
is always shit at what they do or just a retard in a crabbucket.

>>731151990
>posts examples of ca. 2011 /v/
>while in post-gaymergate, post-fappening, post-2016, post-2020, post-covid, post-2024 /v/
If you can't tell the difference you're retarded.

>>731131197
>It's not though
It is.
Unless you mean extending the reach of the game. Sure, then marketing and appealing visuals/sound helps.
Look at minecraft. It was build purely on gameplay. Dwarf fortress... as well, purely built on gameplay. Gameplay in a game will be your foundation, sure you can sell slop, but if you want a hit, gameplay will be the absolute #1 thing that keeps your shit alive.

>good at pixel art
>fails to understand the point of pixel art
Many such cases. Pixel art is at its best when it is just good enough. Its purpose is to sell an illusion, not be some detailed avant-garde art piece.

>>731152126
Goalposts do be moving huh.

File: 1445135917713.gif (141 KB, 266x267)

141 KB GIF

>>731152257
No, that's what retard indie pseuds think like in order to excuse their laziness, good pixel artists always pushed for more

File: 1749428707946492.jpg (161 KB, 605x703)

161 KB JPG

>>731152331
>anon asks a question (present tense, as in he's asking about RIGHT NOW)
>retort using past info that is no longer applicable
>cry "goalpost shift!" when called out on stupidity
Let me spell it out for you, retard:
Anon asked who would want to associate their game with /v/ now, in 2026, when the site and board have the reputation of being a shithole full of stormtards, qanon cultists, incels, and mkultra victims trying to goad each other to perform mass shootings over whatever political outrage bait they were spoonfed from twitter that week. He did not ask who was willing to associate their game with /v/ in 2011 when the worst reputation /v/ and 4chan had were faux news reporting on "exploding vans" and "hackers on steroids" and the site was just nerds discussing hobbies and cracking jokes.

>>731152257
No fucking way. Both are important. You always had great studios with budget that would push the pixel art to its limits. And then the rest, who would make due with what they had. No shame in that. Having mid sprites does not make super mario a bad game. But having amazing sprites does make metal slug an amazing game.

>>731152661
Okay but what if I don't give a fuck about any of that

File: 1761975324806276.png (305 KB, 560x510)

305 KB PNG

>>731152756
I accept your concession.

>>731131197
>Perfect example, literal soulless phone game slop with zero substance, that got huge because indie audiences believe nothing matters except the fastest and cheapest dopamine hits possible
How can one idiot be this wrong? VS takes 2 of the core mechanisms in which media is made interactive and makes a game out of them. Positioning and choice.

>>731130591
The bottom one makes everything seem like its a giant damage sponge. 10 hits to kill that orange slime with that many enemies on screen is a lot.

>>731152807
I'm not that anon
I just don't care about all that shit
And clearly a lot of devs don't, as they post their games here

>>731130591
Both are shit and can barely be classified as games

>>731147792
>while all 3D PS1 games looked like vomit
Wrong

>>731152661
So you are telling me that people were ok to assiciate themselves with the 4chan that constantly posted actual CP 24/7, gore on all boards, actual illegal shit, life streamed their seppukus, the constant NIGGER NIGGER NIGGER spam, was something people loved to associate with.... but being sexist? No way, that is so far over the line that nobody would want that. Could it just be, that you are a little itty bitty baby who found 4chinz after one of the events you are listing?
Lmao... old 4chan having a better reputation than nu 4chan. You are giving me a laff m8.

File: 1759455141931867.png (139 KB, 563x564)

139 KB PNG

>>731152970
>disingenuous posting
>lying
>generally being a faggot
Old 4chan was mentioned in videogame easter eggs and had panels at conventions. New 4chan reposts shit from twitter and can't go two seconds without schizoposting, lying, and whining about trannies/jews/blacks/the voices in your head.

File: hide thread.png (1 KB, 107x88)

1 KB PNG

>>731152970
he implied
>ca. 2011 /v/
on an image with a game from 2013 and 2020
why are you responding to him, there's no point
you could give him examples of shit that released in like 2023 with ties to this place that were a massive success and he'd just strawman or handwave them as "literal who" or shit games

it's always the same with these threads, nodev failed autists angry at people who actually make things, probably a stowaway from >>>/vg/agdg
just let him rot in his own depravity and go visit an actual good thread instead

>>731152808
Makes a slopful game that does nothing but dispense cheap and recurring dopamine with no substance, the game equivalent of TikTok