which video game villain has the best motivation?
Any shitty story can work as long as the writing and acting is good.
>>731362849Really, the issue is we went from extreme to other. Villains who are just evil are boring and dumb unless you are campy slock for children. But most real life bad people are either just kind of greedy and self serving or spoiled entitled pieces of shit who just hate humanity.Stalin and Hitler, basically.
G-Man, but you won't understand for a few more years.
>>731362849Bowser
>>731362849I'm more bothered by how every villain is a dipshit jobber nowadays. They can only beat on weak defenseless people before our hero overpowers, outsmarts, and outwits them with quips.
>>731363752is he an incel?
>>731363874Solid list that properly opposes that shitty other one but I cannot imagine a world where I’d remember Huey more fondly than liquid.
Good villains are those with understandable descents into villainy, but are still clearly antagonists. I absolutely hate how often they're redeemed these days.
Villains who are just evil and lust for power can be fun, you just have to make them cool
DUDE BOREDOM LMAO
>>731362849
>>731363874>Anon got so pissy at a fantastic 10/10 bait chart that he actually tried making a sincere tier list (ignoring that part of the humor in the original is how stupid the idea of trying to boil down writing to "good and bad tropes" is)>It still sucksHonestly really funny
>>731362849You got this from that thread yesterday didn't you?I'm watching you.
him
>>731363874Finally a good tier list.
>sociopaths who are evil for no reason exist in real life and aren't even rare>sociopaths who are evil for no reason are not allowed in fiction because it's "unrealistic"
>>731363467You took two people who both grew up with abusive fathers, experienced extreme poverty, served in the military and called them spoiled kekYour description fits Churchill far better than either of those men.
>>731368038>sociopaths who are evil for no reason exist in real life and aren't even rareyep, the entire nation of Germany exists
Pure evil was always better
>>731363798I blame Loki from Avengers for starting this trend. I hate how instead of a climactic fight they just had the Hulk beating on him at the end of the movie.
>>731368396its more realistic
>>731362849>I'm too constipated for you to understand.
>>731362849It appears my superiority has led to some controversy.
>>731363467Hitler had a tragic backstory though, you can read about it in the book “Mein Kampf”
>>731371672He caused....something
>>731363874>Huey Emmerich>VillainHe did absolutely nothing wrong, except maybe kill Strangelove, though even that was the case of "both are nutcases doomed to kill one another sooner or later." And that's completely personal.>Ocelot, the absolute master in torture, hypnotism and interrogation, cannot squeeze a single confession out of him.>There are multiple pieces of evidence that Miller never stopped working for Cipher.>Code Talker outright says you should be paying attention to Miller.>The radiation leak was caused by Eli.>So was repairing the Metal Gear and stealing it away.And even Strangelove's death is weird. Both were Skull Face's prisoners... and he never noticed his top scientists disappeared into the aether?
>rot your brain with politics, culture war, seething about retarded shit that doesn't matter for over a decade>your IQ declines so far it can't comprehend or stand any nuance and you NEED stories to cater for 40IQ 5 year olds and play out as nothing more than "DA BAD GUY IS DA BAD GUY BECAUSE HE EVIL AND DA GOOD GUYS R GOOD SO THEY BEAT DA BAD GUY BECAUSE DA GOOD GUYS GOTTA WIN" or your two remaining braincells might have to think or function for more than a few seconds
>>731363467Honestly you shouldn't be allowed internet access
>>731368326This, so much this. As a Pole, we're the only nation in the entire world that is still aware of the imperialist nature of Germany and its people.
>>731363874Huey didn't do anything?
>>731368064>Extreme povertyBy the standards of the time? Stalin, perhaps. But Hitler?>Served in the militaryHitler somehow got out of World War 1 and thought "That was a swell idea, let's do it again but more." Stalin meanwhile only served in a revolutionary army. >Your description fits Churchill far better than either of those men.Churchhill genuinly believed in Britain as a nation as it existed. He was a dick, but he was neither greedy or hated humanity. >>731371764>I grew up in one of the richest parts of one of the richest countries.>BUT IT WASN'T ENOUGH!Entitled piece of shit, like I said.
>>731362849The villains are supposed to be liars, though.If a character is like "I wish to blow up the world because that'd be awesome, and I am openly telling everyone I am evil and wish to blow up the world", that's nor a real villain, that's the force of nature in humanoid (or draconic, or whatever) form, and you deal with a "man vs. nature" story in disguise.
>>731364274This. Valid reasons for starting and being hit with failure at every turn forcing them to take more and more extreme and irredeemable actions.
>It's because it amuses me!Kino.
>>731363454>saved the film by being pure unfiltered evil
>>731364274Pussies and faggots (mostly on the left) can't articulate what they actually find to be evil, aside from bigotry, so instead they just pretend their antagonists are evil before either degenerating into shades of grey slop, or redemption slop. Nobody would remember Silence of the Lambs if Hannibal Lecter was redeemed in an asspull at the end.
>>731371878>He did absolutely nothing wrongHe sold the world
>no sob story>no misunderstood tragic villain nonsense>not overly preachy>no option to "save" her>evil for the sake of being evil>did what did she did because she felt like it>that's it. There's no motivation beyond that.>doesn't have an elaborate backstory (at least at first before they tried to shoehorn one in later).Pic related is best villain.I'm so sick of villains needing to have some sort of justification for their actions. The bad guy is bad is good enough for me.
>>731364324Pic not related?
>>731373028This is the reason why GRRM will never surpass Tolkien, he can't write in Black and White.
>>731363454>anything shitty can work as long as it is good
>>731373028That's not a character anymore. It's a shitpost. The joke is that there's nothing in the box and the writer is very smart because he fooled you.
>>731362849I really liked Louis from Metaphor, dude was based AF
>>731362849But what if the villianwas a tree
The primary thing a villain needs to be is entertainingif they can't entertain you through their motives they need to entertain you through their mannerisms or actionsso if you are going to be a generic evil guy in motivation they absolutely can't be generic in how they're evilmake them creative, make them revel in being the villain, if you can bring up any empathy for them make sure you gain every bit of catharsis from being them into the ground or alternatively, don't make the story about the villain, have them be in the background, almost like a force of nature rather than a character, and make the story about the heroes
>>731373796AI is my hobby?
>>731363798All villains are jobbers, otherwise they'd always win.
>>731372323Churchill was a spoiled nepobaby who threw his country into a destructive war and put retarded anti-British communists in charge of his country, then seethed when he realized that locking up everyone pro-White meant his dream of Keeping Britain White wouldn't happen.He was a fucking retard and the worst brit to ever live.
>>731373296Everything you could make for a villain's motivation, there are people who will think it's shit. So don't give a faggot's AIDS-ridden ass about what they think.
>>731374152You do know what AI is used for, right? Yes, your video game hobby is in dire straits.
>>731371542the institute are the good guys thoughbeitfully
>>731371672He's a literal example of bottom.
>>731371672He was based from the moment he showed up.
>>731374785you are a literal example of a bottom since you are clearly a fag
>>731363467Yo dog I agree with everyone else calling you retarded. From the bottom of my heart I sincerely believe you deserve to be dead, and while I don't know where you live I legitimately believe it would be my moral duty to kill you if you said this in real life so future generations stop coming out clinically retarded like you. I thought you should know that.
>>731363874I honest to God cannot remember what Skull Face's motive was. Something about people who spoke English razing his village when he was a child so he decided to destroy English as a language as a getback?
>>731374823Concession accepted.
>>731374669>your video game hobby is in dire straits.It has been for the last 10 years, who cares?
>>731375085>he's a literal example of some arbitrary comic i found on reddit that shares my butthurt point of view!!!! fag
>>731372323>the weimar republic poverty magically never happenedretard.
>>731374669>the previous attempts to kill off my hobby magically never happenedI am seeing a pattern
I was never against evil being evil, modern evil narrative sucks and it's not my fault.>>731363874Adachi is a sociopath faggot, every mental ill serial killer was some dipshit that discovered how to not to get caught>But he didn't kill nobodyYes, I throw someone in a crocodile den and is not my fault they get eaten.
>>731368064Hitler did not experience extreme poverty lol
>>731375428It happened because of the army, the people Hitler allied with.
>>731371878Huey is a sniveling coward with an ego. The other characters are by no means good, but Huey is by far the most pathetic and grating.
>>731376815Hitler is a spoiled piece of shit. The only reason he got "Abused" was because he threw a fit as a result of daddy issues.
>>731362849>>731362849That's because the first panel, he was saying that to fit in with 'current thing'. People were parroting this retarded nonsense FOR YEARSNow he's changed his opinion to the new 'current thing' (woke is dying and no one wants marvel slop villains anymore)He's a shit eater
>>731362849This is the most boring possible way to draw the comicIt isn't even a little visual, it's just a tumblr post within a self insert picture
>>731362849>me in the pastThat's weird because this is clearly not me.The author should have made this comic reflect my opinions instead.
>Game has no villain
>>731373796God I wish I could have voted harder. Burn them all.
>>731362849The game doesn't explicitly spell it out to you but if you poke around the lore, the final boss from Wolfenstein 3D might qualify.
>>731364324Raoh was trying to bring order to a chaotic post-apocalypse world. He only knew how to use strength to make it happen though since that's all he really knew.
>>731362849Bad guys can have a backstory, just don't have a backstory that expects me to sympathize with the villain when they're raping/robbing/murdering everyone
>>731364454Sometimes you just need an evil motherfucker with good prose
>>731362849Far cry 4&5 And ne is trying to get rid of a cultist terrorist Group who murder his daughter The other is a cultist trying to save his people from Armageddon
>>731375027He was butthurt that his entire culture was obliterated in the blink of an eye, so he wants to kill globohomo by getting rid of English and giving away nukes so that all that will remain are seperate nations isolated from each other
>>731371672>Be such a good villain that the game later shits itself trying to recapture and memberberries it and never recoversElidibus nailed it but every attempt since then has a disaster for Final Fantasy
>>731363467Stalin saved the world from Hitler.
>>731371878I'm never able to engage in a discussion about Huey because it always ends in some circlejerk of blaming him over nothing. AKA Huey did "nothing wrong."I played V, GZ and PW multiple times and still can't figure it out. Diamond Dogs just seemed like they wanted an excuse to blame someone for what happened to MSF. Huey worked for Skullface under duress. Huey worked for Coldman and the CIA while being deceived, thinking he was hired by Costa Rica's national defense. Huey helped Snake and all of MSF by constructing Zeke and helping them to hide their nuclear arsenal before the IAEA inspection/XOF attacked. Snake didn't know the inspection was a ruse, why do they assume Huey did - what exactly can he even do about it?Huey killed Strangelove, and evidence of that is used at his trial to nail his exile. That's the ONE thing that I can confidently lay at his feet, cos her death was pretty horrible. But before even knowing anything about that, they met him with total distrust, disdain, even tortured him. It just makes no fucking sense, and in the end, they never got any real answers on who the XOF/Cypher mole really was unless you think Miller was it, and as far as I'm concerned that's cut content.
>protagonist of the game>game shows his actions as increasingly gruesome and questionable>doesnt tell you how to feel about it, lets you choose to keep siding with him after learning how fucked up all the shit he does is>remake comes out>zoomies start sneething about media literacy if you dont agree with their take on ityup. he's still the king of nuanced writing.
>>731362849It's been like that for me too lately. All hail Megatron.
>>731363874>Huey>VillainThe fuck is wrong with you, you should've been on that boat, not him.
>>731379709>villain is a millennialdidnt read alat but ur in trash tier dude
>>731375027Anti-Angloid hegemony with their gutteral black speech becoming lingua franca being a symbol of that
What makes a good villain isn't their backstory or motivation. What makes a good villain is their execution. Are they fun to see on screen? Are they mortifying? Do they, as the kids say, have "aura"? This is all much more important than whether they had a sad backstory or have any justification for doing their misdeeds. That's why simple villains that cast a long shadow over the story are so beloved. If a villain can send a chill up your spine they're a good villain.
>>731378348The villain was Game Freak all along.
>>731380203man I wish he kept that design
>>731366543>in this alternate timeline, you don't step on a snail on your way to work>this causes world war 3 and murders a hundred billion people>YOU'RE THE REAL MONSTER, PROTAGONISTBravo, Nolan.
>>731380275Imperfect Cell is the coolest looking villain in Dragon Ball. And that's saying something because Piccolo Daimao, Piccolo Jr, Vegeta, Frieza forms 1, 2, and 4, and Super Buu are all absolutely incredible designs.
Dude was the only one with a plan that could actually save humanity in the long run.
>>731380601>Dude was the only one with a plan that could actually save humanity in the long run.Hence why he isn't a real villain
>>731380592He looks like Squidward
>>731380203Agree. Also pic very much related.
>>731363874>pure evil is elder god tier>anti-villains is great tierJust my two grains of salt, but it's much easier to write a despicable villain than it is to write a morally ambiguous villain like Senator Armstrong. I have more respect for the latter.
>>731380203That's why I think both The Radiance and Grand Mother Silk are absolutely incredible villains. When you get to the final boss arena, see no one there except the option to challenge, and the Knight turns to face THE FUCKING SUN, that's one of the hypest moments in any video game ever.
>>731371885>local child predator enters forum to discuss things, becomes violently gay seeing discussion taken place.
>>731375027He must have read Frantz Fanon.
>>731380815Cell is the better part of a decade older than Squidward.
>>731380203>>731380592>>731380951>>731381063>Notmalfags invade the threadShit tier villain.
>>731363874I literally don't know any of these villains.
There is nothing worse than a character that is completely painted as a villain and then at the last second (either when finally confronted or about to die) says "w-wait it's time to exposition my sob story past! I had noble motives. Heh we are the same you and I. You know I'm the hero of my own story. Muh past!"There is nothing worse than this.
>>731381063And?
>>731381268
>>731362849>DUDE I AM ENTIRELY DEFINED BY MY PAST>DUDE MY TRAUMA>DUDE I CANT LET GO OF THIS ONE THING THAT HAPPENED TO MEMost obvious sign whatever story you are engaged with was written by a millennial.
>>731381481If you want to talk about tranime the gates are open >>>/a/
>>731363874Good shit, anon.
>>731381624Anime website
>>731381686Hasn't been true in a long time
>>731373420The FF series has so many good villains
>>73138168641% "people" who said that are no longer with us anymore
>>731374669>Yes, your video game hobby is in dire straits.
>>731364324You're describing Kaioh more than Raoh,
>>731362849he wants a planet of entelekussy all to himself
the "villain with a sad backstory" thing only works when its the villain trying to manipulate the hero, and not the movie trying to manipulate the audience
>>731381779
>>731380601And he achieved this by constantly torturing a woman for millenia, and then gloating about how much he loves to make people suffer? Including how he purposely set up Asura to be framed for murder, killed his wife, and then laughed about it?
>>731362849Malos
>>731382057>>731381779>>731373420>I like the villain because I am repressed homosexualThat should below the absolute worst tier
On this topic. What the fuck was wrong with Demon Slayer? I thought it was pretty shit for other reasons but this shit drove me up the wall:>Tanjiro meets demon #37>demon #37 brags about killing his thousandth child and torturing everyone he meets to death for his own enjoyment>Tanjiro kills demon #37>flashback where demon #37 was a child and not a demon and some generic sob story about wanting to be a painter or something>Tanjiro doesn't see this vision>Tanjiro then meets demon #38...This happens over and over until I dropped it. I just don't understand this. Tanjiro doesn't psychically get these visions and doesn't get anything out of this, so it's not a character/plot thing. Is the audience supposed to feel bad or conflicted RapeFuckKillDemon died? Was the real demons the women we tortured along the way? It's emotionally manipulative from the writer, but I don't understand to what end.
>>731381312>He doesnt know eric sparrow of Tony Hawk's UndergroundNGMI
>>731363454FBPB. Execution eats conception for breakfast. What you do in a story doesn't matter so much as how you do it. There's a reason a "million dollar idea" is a joke in creative circles.Black and white villains can be done good and badly. Morally complex, vengeful villains with a troubled past have a bad rep these days because they're being used to only add the appearance of nuance, and because modern writers are safe edgy shitbags who are deathly afraid of depicting anything actually provocative; hence, a villain can't just be evil, they have to have some stupid justification behind it and an incredibly forced redemption arc, because, apparently, the concept that someone's just fuckin' bad offends their quasi-religious moral outlook. Pic related.
>>731362849We want motivations for evil villains, but we don't want cliches or shitty motivations.Why is it so hard for these dense idiots to get?
>>731382565Demon Slayer is a bunch of unrelated japanese ghost stories wrapped up in a shonen. The demons' generic sob stories are the actual core of the series. Tanjiro and co are the jobbers that connect the ghost stories together.
>>731382565You watch medium for retardsWhat else did you expect? You are probably a retard too, since you were watching it. Also, it's not on topic
>>731382565>to what endIt's to portray why Muzan is so evil when his motivation is simply "I don't want to die and I turned into this creature involuntarily while getting medical treatment for some disease."Muzan is rarely directly portrayed doing anything evil, or even anything violent outside of self-defense. Instead, the mangaka shows how even his henchmen, the demons he creates, are also his victims.It doesn't really work, the story is carried hard by the sheer extreme melodrama of it all and the action, and the final fight against Muzan falls flat because of it. The anime is really well directed with decent animation but the story itself is weak.
>>731382872i mean, how many motivations can there bepure evilrevenge evilrighteous "evil" uhhhhh
>>731382679>Execution eats conception for breakfastIt's funny how only animation retards say that. Because that is all which that medium has to offer.
>>731382565Demon Slayer is 100% only popular because of the anime. When the manga was early everyone thought it would get axed. It barely held on for several weeks until it picked up steam and became a middling manga. When the anime came out, it boosted Demon Slayer into the best selling manga (by volume) of all time. Its popularity is purely down to having a god-tier anime adaptation. There are much better manga in Shonen Jump both before and after Demon Slayer.
>>731382679...You aren't fooling anyone. That said broken clock and whatnot.
>>731382550>sees anime dudes>thinks of gay sexanon...
>>731383114Fuck I should get back to Ichi. He's a based psychopath but I fell off like a year ago. Has it been good
>>731373420The finale being retarded soured me on the whole thing
>>731374669To produce slop? Just don't play slop.
>>731362849Which villain does this reminds you of?
>>731383389We got clown-pussy looking absolutely disgusted at racemixing and saying the baby should be aborted for being a crime against nature. It's pretty good, yeah.
>>731383249>hehe dud hehe its not gaaay dude hehe I swear dud hehe xd lol xd Meanwhile, average tranime cover
>villain just wants to fight you
>>731383814remove the clarification
>>731383730>Anon discovers fujos
>>731362849kessler from infamous 1creates the raysphere to give you your powers early.creates all of the hostile factions to force you to fight and become strong.kills your girlfriend (his wife) so you wont be tempted to run.forces you to activate the raysphere a second time making you even stronger.fights you to the death to make you prove youre strong and ruthless and determined.all because hes you from the future and he was coward who ran when "the beast" showed up and laid waste to the world. he watched society fall and saw his friends family and wife die and then traveled back in time to make sure he(you) is a better man, giving you every advantage he never had to prepare you and then making sure you were ready before he laid down his life.
>>731371672>never lies to you>kills planets worth of people without remorse>makes foids moist so they want him to win>wants to save his bros so men want him to win>wins five times>loses to you, but doesn't hold it against you in the slightest>comes back from the afterlife twice to save you since you're his last bro>goes back to being dead because while acknowledging he's wrong he still disagrees with you on principleEasily the best mainline FF antagonist.
>>731383814I dream of him coming back and skewering and making sashimi out of Wuk Shit in an attempt to "anger" me.
>>731363874Are any of them from Florida?
>>731383814>villain is your best friend
>Villain is just the result of an age old rivalry that got a bit too much out of hand.
>>731375027>Something about people who spoke English razing his village when he was a child so he decided to destroy English as a language as a getback?The chinese should invade your country and force you to speak mandarin
>>731380203Not incorrect, only that a well executed villain with a good reason can be the ideal bastard.I'd rather not gas up Emet-Selch any further than he already has been but he's entertaining in every scene in a variety of different ways, even just chatting him up during the adventure with nothing but text, and he arguably has similar cause as the protagonist but on a different side.Niggah has been a part of some of the most absurd horrible shit mankind ever endured but still remained completely understandable to the point it was literally a "Us or Them" extinction event, either he loses and dies for your "happy" ending or you and yours do for his.
>>731362849Sundowner.Fun and profit is the only motivation i can relate to.
>>731387061Strange, I see 4 male fantasies in this image.
>>731380951Meh. A good intro means a lot but neither of them live up to it because their fights suck
>>731383579thanos comes to mind
>>731379673No one saved the world from Stalin
>>731387450Not true, Mao's antics gave him a stroke and he died.And then Mao lived a full life and got away with everything.
>>731364454>the epstein motivation
>>731363874HUEYISN'T THE TRAITORITS FUCKING MILLERIT WAS ALWAYS MILLERHE ADMITS IT
>>731387335That is the obvious choice but I keep thinking Flagsmasher but I don't know much about his character in the comics.
>>731363874Anon the point of tier lists on /v/ is to make them bad on purpose as bait.You're not meant to make an undeniably correct tier list.
>>731379691His situation was used to show you how a narrative can be framed by presentation alone. All the characters blame and distrust him, so the player does too, despite a lack of hard evidence. His protestations begin to look like those of a slippery, self-serving snake. You begin to innately distrust anything he says and does, and you more readily accept any accusation against him.Huey is used to demonstrate how easily a person can be defamed and villified by greater parties. Very in keeping with the game's overall themes, where things are never quite as they seem and can be manipulated.
>>731375027He had a DEMON too.
>>731387278I thought they were pretty decent. They sweetspot the difficulty where they will probably kill you the first time but most skilled players should be able to beat them after one or two failed attempts.
>>731383814I miss him so much.
>>731375027His own culture and language was wiped out twice (first by the Germans, then by the Soviets0 as a result of global machinations beyond the control of the Hungarian people.He wants to kill this globalised world by eliminating the common tongue (english) and also by distributing nukes to everyone as deterrence, but with the caveat that he can deactivate the nukes using metallic archea so he can disable anyone who becomes too strong or seems like they may bring about a return to globohomo.He wanted a more isolationist world with more separated nations, each with their own distinct cultures.
>>731363874Is there a King of the Hill version of this so I can understand it?
>>731388831I guess calling them shitty is a bit harsh, but they aren't really standout fights either. And for Radiance I'm projecting my seethe about PoH onto it.Beyond that though I think they're just kind of boring. I much prefer a "the captain" style of final boss
Good villains should be, before anything, selfish. As simple as it sounds, selfishness is the root of all evil. You can give you villain all the sad background and noble reasons you want but if he isn't selfish, then it he won't actually have the spark to light up a story.
>>731362849Top one was never even true, the retard just never paid attention before.
>>731363467>But most real life bad people are either just kind of greedy and self serving or spoiled entitled pieces of shit who just hate humanity.>>Stalin and Hitler, basically.you have no idea what you're talking about
>>731363467"Hitler was evil because he just was, okay" has been common since well before Current Year but it outs you a midwit.
>>731362849you can have both, not sure why retards feel like it has to be one or the otherbut there is a third option, the villain is justified in their actions, only fighting to right the wrongs, disrupt the corrupt system and punish the deserving, whilst the heroes fight him to protect their way of life and status quo, either not understand the depths of depravity the system they protect holds, or not caring if it makes the people around them safe and happy
>>731363874who's the guy in red lighting next the persona 4 tumblr sexy guy
>>731363874Did I miss something? Why is Huey in the category of the most hated villains? I just interpreted him as sheepish and stupid rather than intentionally malicious.
>>731390048bro that's our messiah
Name a better children's cartoon villain.You can't.
>>731362849https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xJZlY8kuw6w
>>731389046Did my best anon. Hope you appreciate it.
*hits pipe*
>>731390631lol perfect
>Villain is (You)Yep, kino.
>>731390447No cartoon will ever again portray war the way Exo Squad did.
>>731390126Did you finish V? He's a sociopathic nutjob. The way you described him is his facade.
>>731390756The fact it still piss off people to this day will never not be funny.
>>731377253>It happened because of the army, the people Hitler allied with.No it didn't, lmao.
>>731368064100% lol.Proof that propaganda works tbqh.
>>731362849villains that are just evil for the sake of it make sense only when they're tongue in cheek/comic relief/campy, or brainwashed, or when it's a prophecy or a deity that's meddling in mortal affairs. if you play it seriously, they become boring, unbelievable one-note characters (hard to endear to "stupid evil" non-characters)>troubled backstoriesit all depends on how it's done.
>>731381460So what you mean to say is that Squidward looks like him.
>>731390756>every WW2 game where you play as a Judeo-Bolshevik slave
>>731362849I hate webcomics because there are too much text, themes of American people with "First world problems" and the visual style.
Technically vidya, even if most people only care about the TV show
>>731390756Kinography of the highest order
>>731373492Tree is easily one of the best FF villains to date. When was the last time we had an evil overlord villain with no bullshit background?
>>731372673But the movie had Darth Vader as the sympathetic villian
>The villain is fate.
>>731362849I honestly only have a problem with the sympathetic villain when the villian just acts like a regular evil villian through out the story, like to use the Hitler example, the fact that he had an abusive father and was poor doesn't really make me feel bad about him blowing his brains out
I feel like a sympathetic villain is a GOOD character when they legitimately have scruples and have an actual understandable reason for doing what they do, even if the cost is far too high
>>731372323Read what people said about the treaty of Versailles. Economists and others basically went home and cried because of greedy the allies were and how much they were fucking over Germany. They said there was zero chance Germany wouldnt rebuild in anger in how much they got fucked.
I know this isn't exactly /v/ related, but I wrote an insane reimagining of Iron Man and thought to myself "How evil can I make the main villain without coming across as cartoonish and keeping them chilling in their cruelty?"I decided the best way to do that would be to completely avoid posturing or speeches, which I think is the big downfall for taking a villain seriously. A villain who just DOES shit with no warning or buildup that they voice to you, but have clearly thought about a million times, is terrifying, let's be honest.
>>731380893I think a truly mundane ratfuck villian is as god tier as a morally ambiguous one that is written well.
>>731362849I prefer villains that actually have a valid reason, they dont have to have a sympathetic backstory. > I want to kill everyone, just becauseIs shit or just obtuse way of having power to not even rule
>>731385312>>goes back to being dead because while acknowledging he's wrong he still disagrees with you on principleNot on principle, he directly acknowledged how it was an easily avoided farce caused by withheld information.
>>731387869From what little I know of Flagsmasher his thing was just "if countries aren't real then everyone will be chill and stop fighting over shit so FFFFFFFUCK COUNTRIES"
>>731391909I feel like there's a difference between sympathy and understandability.If you don't SYMPATHIZE with, but UNDERSTAND why the villain behaves the way they do, then it's a good balance
>>731391998/co/ anon here, you're pretty on the money. Guy takes it to insane extremes by basically acting like any gathering or group is what enables evil
>>731392031To use Jafar as an example, you don't sympathize with him. He's a power hungry asshole. But you do understand him. He's a power hungry asshole.
>>731363874Shit list. The tier descriptions are too vague and not mutually exclusive.
>>731372323churchhill prayed to provoke hilter to bomb his cities by bombing german civilians.he is probably more evil than stalin or hitler.
>>731362849Good villains form a dichotomy with the protagonist while putting real pressure on the protagonist's core beliefs to force development.Also, anyone can just write a villain that laughs as they run over a baby, but stories rarely go that far to make them truly detestable and satisfying to beat.
>>731363874>Eric Sparrow>his character is that he's a backstabbing, conniving douchebag jealous of your successThe fact that they managed to make such a memorable character be so simple, yet so outrageously hateable is just genius. It just shows that writers are trying too hard sometimes and they can't just accept that maybe we'll hate some fucker because he's an asshole. You don't need hours of exposition or buildup or multiple games, the guy can just be a fucking prick with a punchable face.
>>731362849Admiral Aken Bosch.>I hear my enemies speculate about my motives, my ambitions. Who is Admiral Aken Bosch, and what is that old scoundrel up to? The tragedy of my life is that I will be remembered as a butcher of innocents, and this assessment is not unfair. I cannot argue with their condemnation, or with the verdict of history.>The Neo-Terran Front is an army of stupid cattle, driven by their hatreds, their fears, and insecurities. Ignorance is the greatest weapon of tyranny and old wounds open all too easily. I am merely a fool who created a monster I am now powerless to stop, and so I will play my role to the bloody end. I have given the Lost Generation something to die for, and now my legacy will be crowned with infamy.>What my enemies will never understand is that my rebellion is about my love for humanity, and not my hatred of Vasudans. In the Gamma Draconis system, the destroyers have returned... and soon the Alliance will learn the method behind my madness.
>When the Antagonist literally vomits after hearing a friendship speech
>>731382057>you can just run into him early on by accident and strike up seemingly pointless chattervesperia had so many great optional details
>>731391543
>>731363874>Eric Sparrowlmao spot on
>>731387547Yeah, but he killed mostly chinese, so it evens out.
>>731382565>It's emotionally manipulative from the writer, but I don't understand to what endIt's written by a woman
>>731383114We'll get our killer adaption soon, Ichibro
>>731374823Godamn btfo his ass
>>731363467>hitler is bad>N-NO ACTUALLY HE WAS BASED HE WAS FUCKING BASED PLEASE DON'T INSULT MY DADDY HITLER PLEASE NOOOOOOO/v/ is fucking pathetic lmao
>>731389003Sounds like a hero to me
>>731389003In other words, Skullface was the real hero of MGSV and players were just too stupid to get that his plan would have created a paradise on Earth.
>>731390447What does the N stands for?
>>731395221Natural
>>731362849The charges, officer?
>>731395134this but unironically
>>731363874replace Huey with this fucker
>>731393928>his character is that he's a backstabbing, conniving douchebag jealous of your successEric's an even greater character than that when you actually think about it. After all, he's otherwise by no means a fraud or has any need to be jealous of the MC's success: he immediately catches up after losing at Tampa AM, he makes it to the finals of the Slam City Jam, and he becomes one of the most successful skaters of all time--something he's accomplished when sure: you are out of the picture, but every other pro isn't. It's also why he's able to set up the final goal of shredding all of Jersey.Time and time again, Eric is shown to be just as good and sometimes even outpace the MC at skating, and would probably win if he just applied himself. That's why him going after the MC at the end isn't even necessarily a case of>sure, you never would've been a threat because you just care about skating instead of merch>but I know you're better than me, and I can't stand that, so you're going downsince Eric is undoubtedly just as good of a skater. He's just that soulless and unable to accept any form of rivalry or competition, and will drag others down because of that.There's so many layers at work that, even if you don't immediately appreciate it, it totally comes across in his overall character and makes him that more memorable and reprehensible.
>>731379180> Villain has a completely valid complaint, but has been tortured/rejected so long they've gone insane and now pursue that complaint via untenable means> also has a great voice actorhe was great
>>731392532Like, if their motive makes sense and you get WHY they act that way, then it's understandable
Kefka.
do not respond to the obvious bait
>>731362849>strawman.png
>>731362849>people being evil with no motivation is unrealistic>check list of serial killers>its all a bunch of mentally ill people killing people for no reason other than it being fun
>>731363467so many /pol/fags and tankies seething at this post
>>731399517You already said that
Albert Wesker
>>731377253I thought lefties were supposed to be the educated ones?
>>731395409I kneel.
>>731380982Trump posts here!?
>>731391747>According to German propaganda...Germans shot themselves in the foot trying to get out of their international obligation. The truth is that Versailles wasn't gars enough as would later prove the WW2 peace treaty. They should have balkanize Germany and occupy it's territory for a century. There could have been an EU to face Soviet union.
>>731363467>most real life bad people are either just kind of greedy and self serving or spoiled entitled pieces of shit who just hate humanityYeah that's literally what evil means
>>731363874>Kai Lengthat nigger was so incredibly fucking lame lel
>>731391935>he directly acknowledged how it was an easily avoided farce caused by withheld information.?He said "The future you want is not the past that I love."He never comments on his memories beyond how Hermes made him look like a fool.
>>731363874I like this spin.The villain morality monologues coming up at the end of each game felt like a clean break from the rest of the adventure in more than a few titles.Execution issue, as stated above, but a good villain isn't necessarily one with justifiable motives. That just means he might also be deep.Having a villain the player actually wants to oppose through the end is much better. You can feel good about your victory. You didn't just get dressed up by the owners of the status quo to get rid of the guy changing it (90% of plots)—YOU wanted him turned into a bloody mist and made it happen. You close the game like, "Yeah, he got what was coming to him", and when they announce some "Fuckface is back for Round 2", you can have fun beating that sucker senseless.
>>731362849There is no such thing as objective good morality
>>731389943We've had that also. You're describing Bleach. Ichigo is a mindless Soul Society dog, and he's perpetually in denial about it. It fits the author's overall message of, "It doesn't matter why you fight, only whether or not you do", but anywhere else, it just turns the audience against the heroes (if they paid attention). I don't want a game to tell me the main quest is all morally bankrupt. The writers set the main character on it and I can't turn him around to fix things, so chiding me like I control the character is just dumb.
>>731392081It is less about his motives and more about whether the comics treats him like a helpless dindu.
>>731363874I recognize only one of those faces
>Literally tried to stop globohomoism
>>731364161>I cannot imagine a world where I’d remember Huey more fondly than liquidProbably because he's also disgusting and pathetic.
>>731368326>yep, the entire nation of Germany existsThat's racist, what did black people ever do to you?
>>731390447
>>731362849Who wouldn't want to gas the jews that are 1000x worse than actual jews His heart was in the right place
>>731404304Aizen is a cool villain, but I don't know if I'd say his motives are the reason why.>I want to fix the shitty soul society. So I'm going to fucking destroy everything and throw the 3 worlds into disarray to make the Oken to get to the Soul Palace where I will get absolutely fucking washed by Squad Zero and God forbid I win somehow I will not be an eligible replacement for the soul king and have zero authority so the entire world will just end and nothing will be accomplished>what specifically is wrong with the soul society? it's like, fucked up man>no, I won't clarify, stop askingAizen is cool as shit, but his reasons are so swept under the rug we don't even really know what they are
>>731362849Both are good. It just gets tiring when you just get one or the other. Not the best, but I recall liking the villain in DQIX.
>>731405429Aizen just didn't want to be ruled by a corpse. His friend wanted to right the wrongs of Soul Society, so they took a detour through the C46, but his goal was just to depose the Soul King and become the setting's "ruling" authority.(Since he didn't intend to change the world's fundamental mechanics, he might not have needed to fight the Zero Guard.)
>>7314056611) Soul King was alive, just absolutely mutilated and living in suspended animation2) just saying >"this is gay, I wanna be in charge" isn't some elder god tier motivation3) He wouldn't be able to hold the worlds together, so if he killed the Soul King, all of existence would end or at least merge back into the original world which would be basically the same thing and if he didn't and just said "I call the shots now" while using the Soul King as a linchpin would be fucking dumb since nothing really changes, since he holds no real authority ever since he was sealed away like a fucking million years ago or whatever4) Squad Zero is still interested in maintaining order in the soul society, since they were almost called to deal with Aizen originally, so no fucking way they're okay with him just showing up and calling the shots5) if he was just going to show up to shot call and not fight or kill anything, why show up at all?6) if he just wanted to run the soul society, all he needed to do was take control of C46. Which he already did.Aizen didn't give a fuck about changing anything, he was just stronger and smarted than everyone and wanted to fuck shit up, which is perfectly good motivations for an evil ultra competent villain, but good motivations? nah
>>731362849As many here has already written, villain is first and foremost judged by how impressive he is as a villain - the combination of evilness, style, danger he poses and inevitability of bad things to happen should he be allowed to continue (or if is he can even be stopped).Thing is, villains with "deep motivation" either have absolutely perfect reasoning in logic and in viewer's value system including illogical emotional part of it - thus not actually being a villain in the end, or have flawed motivation - in this case "i lied, i'm just evil" is only true villain, "i care not for counter arguments, goal is everything" or "my goal was shit all along, guess i'll go crazy" are technically villains, but weaker and are more of antagonists, and, finally, "i see your point, hero, i was wrong" is not a villain at all. The very moment one loses his determination, he loses coolness. Not being cool = being lame, which for a villain in viewer's eyes equals "career death". Garrosh of all cases ended up being a better villain retroactively despite being a hatesink precisely because he kept insisting on his views - there are qualities, that, while are neutral in terms of morality, are directly tied to coolness. Power, determination, charisma, cunning (mind you, not intelligence, but its "active" form, directly applied to interactions), looks, associated with those qualities - all of that, especially when combined, forms a cool character - the only thing remaining to make such character into a villain is to give him morally evil motivations and methods, so this character, observed by reader/viewer/player, makes evil to look attractive - however a balance between "i hate this character because he does bad things" and "i like this character because he is cool" should be kept - coolness should be just behind the villain's vile deeds. Add too much cool - and the character is not a villain anymore. Make evil prevail too much - and you get the hatesink like Handsome Jack.
>>731363874
>>731406260good poast
Both straight up evil and morally grey villains are good. The problem is execution.People aren’t sick of grey villains, people are sick of how a villain’s villainy is forgiven by the story just because they have a tragic past. Similarly, one dimensional bad guys are only good if they’re fun and have presence.
>>731362849He just wanted to take his kingdom back
>>731390048Kane, from Command and Conquer. The "Charismatic Leader and Icon" type of villain leading a faction of rebels against the Global Defense Initiative (aka nato).
>>731387253Based.
>>731362849Star Wars does both
People will think a story is good if its writing and acting is good, as anon here said.You are drawn in from moment to moment not by the validity of the overreaching arc. Tons of stories completely fall apart when even minimally scrutinized but instead you'll love the characters and the scenes that came and went before you.I'm not even convinced this relationship has a limit. People can worship media with a complete utter nonsense of a story but which featured some very meme:y or memorable characters that just did their own thing within this nonsense very well.
>>731362849Undertale
>>731406880>GunmI wonder why we still don't have any over the top SciFi action game.
>>731364454Yep. And he's great.
>>731362849This is most animes now, it can be done right but honestly it does get tiresome sometimes
>>731363874>Huey>Villain
>>731363467>Hitlerweak bait, niggertroon
>>731377253Absurd historical revisionism. You can skip the rest of the checklist for your arguing methods, I've already reached "gradually I began to hate them"
>>731372323>our channel islands are occupied by the Germans?>the Germans are requesting to evacuate the British civilians to us?>no lol let them starve
>>731380951Kek Reddit has entered the chat
>>731399517>Fuck everyones calling me out on just being factually wrong>I BETTER CALL THEM POLITICAL INCELS TO MAKE ME FEEL BETER! THAT'LL SHOW EM'!You're still retarded
>>731372673Chudwoks mogged troopercels
>character is an asshole and has a lot of fun being evil
>>731379180The goatHe's complex and justifiable, but so obviously reprehensible and evil with corprus, that it still makes your quest feel epic. A random player and a thinker are both appeased too
>>731389003>His own culture and language was wiped out twiceIs he actually supposed to be Hungarian or is it some made up ethnicity of 2,000 people that exists entirely in a single town on the Hungarian border? As far as I know they weren't genocided and the Germans only occupied them because they were trying to defect to the Soviets.
>>731363874Handsome Jack is a good villain.
>villain has like 1/3 of a motive and fills the rest and more with pure seethe
>>731401703>international obligationWhat obligation? What is it about their participation in WW1 that means they uniquely should be balkanized. Also, good luck permanently occupying a balkanized Germany in 1918. It wasn't 1945. Things were bad but their country hadn't been flattened. >>731401703>There could have been an EU to face Soviet union.So you support Hitler?
>>731380893>plan is to tear down the government and spark a 2nd US Civil War in the hopes that it comes out stronger>to do this he'll use an army of cyborg robots created with the brainwashed brains of thousands of orphans he had killed>morally ambiguousAnon, I...
>>731379673Correct. But he was still a self serving man who didn't really care about anything other than himself.
>>731374926Hitler died like a dog and so will you. I'll make sure your wife is raped and your cities are razed before we off you.
>>731390893It did. The army was responsible for surrendering and starting the war. >>731409780Stab in the back myth was the historical revionism. >>731374606Nobody did more to keep communist's out of power than Churchill. >>731391747Versailes was a joke compared to the treaties Germany tried to make it's enemies sign. It was pure entitlement over losing a war they partly started. >>731393735Killing Nazi civilians was good.
>>731410373>What is it about their participation in WW1 that means they uniquely should be balkanizedThe fact they basically gave Austria a green light to do whatever the fuck they wanted and were plotting to turn France into a puppet state. >Also, good luck permanently occupying a balkanized Germany in 1918Germany had been a country for a few decades. Break it up and it would never come back together.>So you support Hitler?No, because Hitler allied with the Soviet Union against the west and only backstabbed them when he realized the British weren't backing down and his economy was starting to collapse due to lack of resources.
>>731409781>Trusting Germans
Who cares about the antagonist motivations. Just crush your enemies.
>>731410793You are trans and on crack, botsister
>>731411016Hitler is living proof that children like you should have been beaten more.
>>731390893Jews and banks did it, the jewish communist coup in 1919 made them THE guilty bastard to KoS.
