>There is some kind of revisionist attempt to portray the SEGA Dreamcast as somekind of made up 5.5 gen consoleWait what the fuck?
>>732165472
>>732165472Well I had one when I was 11 and it was great. It felt like a really premium product at the time. It was the first console with an internal cooling fan and my first console with a boot menu.
>>732165472why would it be? it was more powerful than the PS2.
>>732165472>revisionistIt was way too powerful to compete with the N64 and PS1It was way too weak to compete with the PS2, Xbox and GameCube
>>732165472it failed because it didn’t have games
>>732165820in what reality was the ps2 not weak as fuck with fancy effects? great unique library but it was weak compared to the alternatives.
>>732165472Gen 5.5 is a good assessment of one of the console's faults, not a literal claim that it's part of its own made up generation.It was weaker than any 6th gen console but too powerful and pricey to compete in any meaningful way with the 5th gen ones that still filled the "bargain" price range.
>>732165783Aside from the fact that the PS2 hadA 50% faster processorTwice as much RAMAnd 4x as much disk spaceAside from those, the Dreamcast mogged it
>99% of all software is 480i/480p no more 240p trickery>Has native VGA support>Regular CDs were too small and they had to invent a larger format to accommodate larger textures etc>Came with a built in modem and later a broadband adapter was released >Barely any software uses prerendered visuals since the hardware is powerful enough to render everything in 3D.Its a 6th gen system through and through
>>732166040go back and play ps2 games on a crt and that shit looks like muddy liquid feces. the n64 gets shit on for being a muddy mess but the ps2 is equally as bad image quality wise. people are so spoiled by emulation.
>>732166098PS2 has tons of interlacing and muted color range.Dreamcast through 480i almost tricks me into thinking I'm using 480p
>>732166239ps2 image quality is ass. it was always ass. good games but shockingly ass video output that always gets a pass cause muh emulation muh nostalgia.
>>732165472Anyone who doesn't see dreamcast as a home version of a Naomi board is retarded and only plays shit games
>>732166098Lol of course the antips2fag is an ass hurt n64fag upset the entire legacy of the console is a joke because YouTubers overplayed their hand.
>>732168647i like both consoles. i can still admit visually they both look like ass natively.
>>732168940>i like both consolesIf you say it, it must be true.
>>732166069>Regular CDs were too small and they had to invent a larger format to accommodate larger textures etc>every game on the system was pirated on CD
>>732166098>go back and play ps2 games on a crt and that shit looks like muddy liquid fecesps2 looks great on crts though
>>732165472if people consider the switch an 8th gen console than this is a 5th gen console
>>732169261
>>732169223>every game on the system was pirated on CDYou would be surprised. There were many Dreamcast games that went above a CD's file storage size, and as a result, those games pirated would not have music files, since music was the first thing to get cut in the process. Guilty Gear X comes to mind.
>>732165472Raw specs aside it had alot of enhanced 5th gen ports and alot didn't even run well because of WinCE. The exclusives were a good showcase of the hardware but gameplay wise alot of them were either arcade ports or had arcadey game design.
>>732169709>alot of them were either arcade ports or had arcadey game design.Hence why it's my favorite 6th gen console desu
Timing wise yeah the Dreamcast came out early and for a time seemed like a wondrous ultra machine vs N64 and PS2, because it was, and in 1999 everyone wanted one. But the PS2 somehow managed to eat its lunch not because it was graphically superior (actually only in a few ways) but because Sony somehow secured all the devs and it seems like they just kinda passed over Sega, but part of that was Sega pulled the plug on itself so the devs didn't get the chance even if they wanted. The Dreamcast could have run GTA3, Max Payne, Silent Hill 2 etc. It had the technical capacity, actually it was not super different from PS2 and even exceeded it in some ways, ergo it was fucking absolutely 6 gen. It just never got the chance.
>>732170629Also typo it seemed like a wonder vs N64 and PS1, as you could probably guess
>people keep comparing Sonic Adventure to Sunshine like they are supposed to be equivalents>in reality, SA1 should be compared to SM64The Dreamcast's discontinuation happened before Sunshine even released. People underestimate when it actually came out
>>732170912Not equivalents, source of inspiration/plagiary.
>>732170912Yeah, people forget Sonic adventure came out the same time as ocarina of time.
The PS2 can do more polys,better transparency effects and has a big media.The dreamcast can do 640x480, and much better textures.
I just don't see how the Dreamcast would have survived without a revision. 1 gig GD-Roms, no dual analogue, slow disc read speeds, poor cpu and gpu with chugging clock speeds and barely any ram leading to memory issues in Sonic Adventure of all games. People say the Dreamcast can compete with the PS2 but I don't see MGS3, San Andreas, FFXII, or even King Kong. Also I fucking hate the Dreamcast controller it is so cheap feeling the control stick has no grip but a bumpy texture that wears out fast and a ton of dead zones.
>>732171929MDK2 is proof that Dreamcast can compete or beat the PS2. But you're right, they would have run into size limitations very quickly just like Gamecube.
the dreamcast looks hella groovy hooked up through a vga cable
VMUs were cool.>>732166040Yet Crazy Taxi, Sonic, Marvel vs Capcom 2 etc ran at 480i on PS2 and 576p on Dreamcast. Curious?
>>732165472Fucking retards think processing power defines the generation of a console, or even what capacity it has to become a successful competitor, if we want to move goalposts.The Dreamcast was a proper gen 6 machine through and through, it was Sega themselves that pulled the plug early, not entirely but probably by all the prior failures and bad faith from consumers and devs since the Sega CD. While Sony had all the devs by the balls with how beloved the PS1 was.Remember the Wii was a slightly, barely, upgraded Gamecube, and the Switch a literal tablet that had worse specs than a flagship phone released a year after (Galaxy S8, iPhone X), and those two consoles are on the top of the most sold consoles in history, fuck, people are still buying the Switch 1, 9 years after release.
>>732172104MDK is proof that the PS2 can run MDK not much else. No one is going to say the atari is as strong as the ps1 just because they both had rayman. They're all entirely different architectures.
>>732172104Another big problem is Dreamcast has horrible audio.
>>732165472it can run GTA3What more proof do you want?https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6MFN7QiF83M
DC was just a PSO, Soul Calibur, and Marvel vs Capcom machine for the more socially inclined. After that its was shit like SA1, Blue Stinger, RE:CV, and Armada that occupied solo times.
>>732174837To each their own, I still have mine for the shmups.
>>732174304San Andreas, Halo, Rogue Squadron, RE 4
>>732166098nope that brown filter you see on everything is from sniffing your own farts too mcuh
>>732174837>ArmadaThis was not just a solo game, the coop space Diablo/Gauntlet was kind of novel at the time
>>732165472The cool thing about the dreamcast is if you know someone had one and remembers it fondly, you just instantly know they're a real nigga Meanwhile Gamecube/PS2 (ONLY) owners are generally dweebs and often have dogshit opinions
>>732169261Holy shit I had this same TV as a kidFucking kino based based based
>>732176509The OP says "5.5th gen console" not 6th gen.You've got to learn to read anon.
>>732171178Absolutely fucking nuts given how slick SA is and dog ugly Ocarina is
>>732171178>>732177275>>732170912Don't forget Ninja Lights and Lantern Engine.In the Tokyo International Forum, you can see the Ninja Lights system in action. Dynamic shadows, lights and other effects that aren’t seen in the final game.The final game removed most of the Ninja Lights system, but some of it is still leftover. Some objects like the TVs still use Ninja Lighting.In Mystic Ruins, green bit was supposed to be a poor man's global illumination--i.e the grass "reflecting" green light.The Dreamcast had the ability to perform what was called Order Independent Transparency which SA2 used extensively for things such as item balloons and artificial chaos. When SA2 and SA1 was ported to Gamecube, many of the transparency features that the Dreamcast had couldn't be replicated and they were never fixed for the PC port.Sonic Adventure and Sonic Adventure 2 were extremely ambitious. Sonic Adventure 2 is a much, much, much more robust game internally than SA1. I cannot stress that enough. It is much more flexible in every conceivable way, and it is really impressive how much Sonic Team improved on in such a short time frame. But it is still obviously based on SA1 and shares a lot of infrastructure, albeit greatly improved.>Sega Dreamcast had order independent transparency implemented in hardwarehttps://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/previous-versions/ms834190(v=msdn.10)?redirectedfrom=MSDN
Is a CRT mandatory for the Dreamcast?
>>732178702Nope>Flycast 4K
>>732177275I think it says more about how good OOT looks on the piss ass hardware that people even compare them
>>732165472Because it was. You can argue about your autistic arbitrary generation categories all you want, but in reality the dreamcast existed in the late 90s, it competed against the N64 and PS1, its library was made up of late-90s-style games, many of its games were suped-up ports of games available on PS1/N64. It's lifespan didn't even overlap with 2 of the other 3 consoles of the sixth generation. Its games weren't anything what you saw on the PS2/xbox/gamecube. It did not feel a part of that generation whatsoever.
>>732178927I mean the Dreamcast itself, not an emulator.
>>732179234It came out 9/9/99. Most of its sorry life was in the early 2000s>but the Japanese one was November 98!!!K
>>732179438Half of N64's lifespan overlapped with dreamcast. zero percent of gamecube's did. Dreamcast was essentially the 90s equivalent of a "pro" console. It was "hey, here are the same games/styles of games you get on PS1 and N64 except they run at 480p and the framerates don't suck ass"This isn't a dig at DC, I love the DC. But it has next to nothing in common with the styles of games you saw on PS2/GC/XB
>>732165472>revisionismThat's exactly what it was. I still remember when people called it "Sega 128". It was a step up from PSX/N64, but couldn't compete with the PS2/Xbox.
>>732166098Dreamcast 3d model graphics look worse imoThey have that obvious early 2000s look where it looked next gen for 1 year then after it got BTFO by PS2 gamecube and XboxI don't even know how to describe it, like Shenmue looks so fucking plastic and fake compared to say FFX
>>732174304>>732177231>GTA 3 is 5th genYeah you're retarded
>>732179265Dreamcast can output VGA that lets you connect your Dreamcast to a PC-style VGA monitor, for the sharpest possible picture.
>>732179216People compare them because they came out the same year
>>732165472Zoomers want to rewrite the video game history of Millenials and Gen Xers as a subtile way to appropriate it (like men of the past were appropriating the mythes of their ancestors) because their own history consiste of Fortnite, GTA5 and nothing else.This is why they are obsessed with the idea of having every games of any renown in history to be ported on steam and modern consoles. They envy our mythes.
>>732166040and it was the same price as a DVD player in 2000 (cheaper than high-end models), lots of people forget. that's why lots of people bought it. why buy a $299 DVD player when the 299$ PS2 can play games AND DVDs?
>>732180651A lot of person bought it because it was called the Playstation 2, the sequel to the original playstation. That's it. Stop seething. Tom Kalinske fucked up by not building a war chest during the Genesis era and when he fucked up even more by releasing the Saturn early in the back of the big box store who in turn buycotted the console and pushed the PS1 instead.
>Dreamcast was on the market for 2 years>No devs really had the chance to push it to its limits>PS2 is on the market for over 10 years>Plenty of devs have had the chance to push it to its limits
>>732180918but youtube man told him that people only bought a ps2 because dvd player. are you really saying that youtube man is not a 100% reliable source of information?
>>732165783PS2 was the strongest console that gen you fucking retard. It was more powerful than gamecube but thats it
>>732180918i'm not seething about anything lol, i love the ps2, i have one right next to me. I'm just stating a fact. I remember my mother buying a regular DVD player, almost in spite of me wanting the ps2.
>>732181196The PS2 was weaker than the GameCube and the Xbox, dumbass.
The reason why Sega released the sequels to their "open world" Dreamcast games (Crazy Taxi, Shenmue, Jet Set Radio) on Xbox exclusively was because it was the only console that had enough VRAM to run them. The amount of VRAM the Dreamcast had (8 MB VS 4 MB for the PS2 and 3 MB for the NGC) was the sole reason why some developers were able to extract such impressive graphics despite the weaker hardware.
>>732181483>paper specsretard
>>732181241So she didn't get you a PS2 because it was a glorified DVD player, got it.
>>732181196>the second entry in the gen is the strongest but not the last entry which outclasses the ps2 the same way the ps2 outclassed the dreamcast
>>732181610No, because my mother hated video games. Only got one when the first slim revision came out. DVD players were way cheaper at that point. I dunno why you're so fucking defensive about this shit though. It's a stupid plastic toy.
>>732182115I just hate people rewriting history to fit their narrative.
Facts:>Ps2 won>ps2 was the best>ps2 won because people wanted the next playstation after the ps1>gc lost>dc lost>xbox lostYou dont need to be upset about it
would the state of gaming really have been that different if playstation lost that generation and sega was still in the console market? i felt like sega really brought the video gamey feel to video games, them leaving the console market just felt like a shatter to the identity of vidya
>>732183579>>732183695It's really just Sony and Nintendo who won. Nobody cares about SEGA or XBOX anymore
>>732183695No because everything wrong with modern gaming started with Microsoft
>>732166040Also the PS2 could play DVDs instead of the Dreamcast, which was stuck on CD-ROMs and its own proprietary format
>>732171929>>732172104At least the GameCube had a special high-speed port that could've been utilized (though was only used for Game Boy Player). Dreamcast had no such port, so you couldn't even release a DVD player add-on
>>732181483The GC ram bandwidth was a pretty bad issue. Disc size was also a problem.
>>732180474Not ported, remastered (vandalized).
>>732172278>Curious?Because all of those arcade games were built on hardware Sega developed. You do know Sega used to be a major arcade manufacturer, right?That's how so many arcade games ported to Sega consoles were perfect or near-perfect
>>732165472Boomer hereAt the time, the Dreamcast didn't felt like a next gen console simply because it was too similar to games found in arcades. Nothing special about it.The arcade graphics were ahead compared to PS1 and the N64, but nothing revolutionary.>>732174304This was made possible thanks to modern programming techniques, improved development tools, and unlimited development time. Any retro game can be enhanced if developers choose to work on them again.>>732169261The PS2 was designed for CRT TVs because everyone had a crappy CRT TV with only AV inputs.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nWbV1Y4CWbAThe release of Gran Turismo 3 marked the true start of the 6th generation.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wo3BEvmaMIM
>>732181196>It was more powerful than gamecubeOH NO NO HAHAHA
In terms of library the Dreamcast was more like a PS1 Pro than anything. It had the best versions of late 5th-gen multiplats (Soul Reaver, Rayman 2, the Tomb Raider games, Resident Evil 2 and 3, etc.) It was already discontinued before the GameCube and Xbox even launched and never competed with them. Sega even had launch games for the GameCube and Xbox since they were already third-party at that point.
>>732185672Remember: no Burnout 3 for the Gamecube! Too weak to handle so many calculations per frame at 60 fps.
Could Sonic Heroes run on Dreamcast?
>>732185672wasn't the ps2 port literally a beta build tho
>>732166098You should stop shitting on your CRT while playing your PS2, anon.
>>732187183Sega Dreamcast had more video RAM and could do more video effects in hardware than the PS2. It was crazy good at math with the VU and had fast VRAM. I've also seen MANY Dreamcast developers claim that the console was easily maxed out within its short lifespan, because it was "so easy to develop for."The PS2 has a couple of competing factors. It was a complex AF beast to develop for, had a long learning curve, took lots and lots of time and money for people to not be terrible with it... so it wasn't exactly easy to harness its potential.but on the flipside:The thing absolutely dominated the market and had $9999 bazillion dollars worth of AAA devs doing R&D and exploring every avenue of it with such a massive library... then combine that with the fact that its lifespan was so ridiculously long
>>732179702That part
>>732187127Fucking GTA3 can run on Dreamcast
>>732189775>>732187127Doom 64 port has the all of the player's weapons have real-time normal mapping (DOT3 bump mapping, with tangent-space light direction vectors and three-dimensional normal texture maps, that normal mapping) that interacts with my custom dynamic lighting system (up to 16 simultaneous point sources, geometry tessellation for improved quality)https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wemzPFWFIN4
>>732180956SEGA Naomi kept getting supported into late 2000s. Dreamcast also received some of those late ports
>>732165472The damn thing lasted less than 3 years, most of its reputation is tied to just having better versions of PS1 games, and all of its major in-dev games got an immense boost by moving moved to the Xbox instead. The only people who don't view the Dreamcast as the Wii U of the 5th gen are Sega fanboys that are just desperate to shill it as their favorite cutie patootie console, rather than what's actually relevant to reality.
>>732180474>consists of Fortnite, GTA V, and nothing elseBut Fortnite and GTA V weren't on the 6th GenZoomers started in 1996, and they grew up playing 6th and 7th Gen games.
>>732190362Two companies worked on the Dreamcast's chip design, Nvidia and NEC. Aparently Nvidia's chip was more powerful, but Sega of Japan wanted NEC's design, which was used for the retail Dreamcast.Peter Moore clearly took his Sega of America and Dreamcast experience to lay the foundation for the Xbox. It's notable that the Dreamcast was discontinued in America the same year the Xbox dropped and the Dreamcast's internet support was Windows-based and Developers could choose between a Sega developed Katana development environment or Windows CE>Microsoft developed a custom Dreamcast version of Windows CE>Was released right after the Dreamcast was discontinued>Literally uses the Dreamcast controller layout minus the VMU>Sega offered backwards compatibility for Dreamcast games>The Dreamcast was a testbed of sorts for Microsoft, with some of the console's games running on a custom version of Windows CE>Peter Moore who worked for Microsoft on the Xbo was the president and COO of Sega of America>The ESPN games, Gunvalkyrie, Headhunter Redemption, The House of the Dead 3, Jet Set Radio Future, NBA games, NCAA games, NFL games, NHL games, Otogi, Outrun, Panzer Dragoon Orta, Phantom Crash, Puyo Pop: Fever, Rent-A-Hero No. 1, Sega GT, Sega Soccer, the Sonic games, Spartan: Total Warrior, Spikeout, Super Monkey Ball: Deluxe, and Toejam & Earl 3 were all released on the Xbox>SOULCALIBUR II Original Xbox version runs in native 720p with 4:3 pillarboxing (960x720p)>Hell, Jet Set Radio Future was even bundled with it>It went for the same audience of cool, hip, eXtreme jock gamers that the Dreamcast did>It fully realized the online gaming feature Sega ambitiously set out to popularize despite lacking the resources>Right at the end of Microsoft's E3 2007 conference, exec Peter Moore revealed a special edition Xbox 360 to be branded with Halo 3.The Dreamcast Soul continued on with the GC, Xbox and Xbox 360
>>732180651>that's why lots of people bought itdeboonk'd long ago sweat tie
>>732190548I don't like that you had all of this ready in a text doc. I'm gonna go piss in your Xbox disc tray.
>>732166098i was actually alive back then and there was nothing wrong with how it lookedyou probably had some bootleg tv your mother bought at a mexican's house
>/vr/ console warring threadUncs have been seething at each other's baby toys for 30 years lmao
>>732165472systems with phantasy star online: dc, gc, xboxsystems without phantasy star online: ps2dc/gc/xbox are higher generation than ps2
>>732190978RE4 is downgraded hard for PS2 specsAccording to Capcom, the character Leon was modeled with 10.000 polygons on the Gamecube, and on the PS2 the polygon count will be almost half of that number. By comparison, the Snake on Metal Gear Solid 3 has 4.000 polygons, 1.000 less than the PS2 RE4 Leon.The textures, that on the Gamecube were on the 24bits color standard, will be lowered to 4 or 8 bits. On the other hand, the wider and superior memory bandwidth on the Playstation 2 will allow the use of more varied textures than that used on the Cube.
>>732190548og xbox would be kino if they weren't blowing up every 20 seconds
>>732190965
>>732166040EE was dogshitHalf the VRAMAnd disk space is irrelevant
>most of its reputation is tied to just having better versions of PS1 games,Complete utter horseshit. This whole game is look we can fully render everything in 3D no need for prendered graphics
>>732194154>most of its reputation is tied to just having better versions of PS1 gamesWhen I think Dreamcast i think ofGrandia II, Skies of Arcadia, Shenmue, DoA 2, MvC2, PSO2, House of the Dead 2, Canon Spike, SA2 and BlueStinger. What on earth are you smoking?
>>732194409One too many 2s
>>732166069This guy get it.
>>732180956PS2 also had batshit complicated architecture, and the only reason Devs put up with it was because, well, it was playstation, and it'd be suicidal not to support such a popular console.Dreamcast's architecture was very simple and developer-friendly. But that same ease of use most likely meant that there wasn't much "untapped potential" in the same way that other consoles had. Early launch era PS2 games often looked on par with Dreamcast, but I don't think Dreamcast could've been made to run late-gen PS2 gamesAnd that's on top of other big limitations like the controller and using glorified CDs. Yes, GC discs were only a bit bigger than GD-ROMs, but GC discs still had DVD read speeds while GD read speeds were on par with CDs.
>>732194769What were the most technically impressive DC and PS2 games?
>>732165472People have a hard time understanding that the Dreamcast is like the PS3 where it's impossible to get performance out of unless you really know your shit about programming.
>>732194910> DCsomic 2 > PS2crash nitro kart
I wonder if they would have made a VMU-less controller with a double stick
>>732165472It's the first 6th gen console and pioneered the 128 bit standard.
GTA3 and Vice City was just ported to the console recently and plenty more projects have been announced.
>>732195478The 1st party games looked good, it's 3rd party titles that ran and looked like shit, support for windows CE was a mistake
>>732195478>People have a hard time understanding that the Dreamcast is like the PS3 where it's impossible to get performance out of unless you really know your shit about programming.What was so hard about DC programming?
>>732195817>GTA3 and Vice City was just ported to the console recently and plenty more projects have been announced.Modern gaming is so shit that we're looking forward to Dreamcast ports
>>732195763>128 bit standardwut
>>732196059Nothing, he's a literal retard who thinks powerVR and RISC were arcane knowledge.
>>732195817those ports are years old now methinks
Melty Blood should have had a Dreamcast port. It was the home of fighters>Capcom Vs. SNK>Dead or Alive 2>Fatal Fury: Mark of the Wolves>MVC2>Power Stone>SoulCalibur>Street Fighter Alpha 3>Super Street Fighter II X for Matching Service>Virtua Fighter 3tb
>>732165472And yes, it's the only thing they have left. That, and words with no real meaning: "visionary", "ahead of time", "innovative". Nod at them and move on.
I was a hard-core dreamcast guy back when it came out and never felt fair to compare it to xbox or ps2. It was dead before they even came out but it had an awesome run for two years. It always felt like an in between console to me. Not revisionist. There's a lot of people that absolutely did not own one back in 99-01 who praise it today though.
>>732195478They said that about Saturn too. Sega shit the bed with all the retarded genesis add-ons even though they seem cool looking back. Then Sony just entering the market pretty much killed them because normies flocked to brand name.
They got FFX running on DChttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4QHW1RAhdBI
>>732194438>More videos games? No!!!!
>>732199131I was referring to PSO2, which is not on dreamcast
>>732196191Console releases were antithical to doujinsoft and by the time Act Cadenza released the Dreamcast had been dead for years.
>>732165472That's literally what it was. Too good for the 5th gen, too bad (and late) for the 6th gen, tech wise at least.
>>732196094LMFAO!
Get ready! Fight!
1/2 a generation behind
>>732185672I vividly remember arguing about this shit 20 years back, you could show people the raw specs but they really insisted that the GC can't be more powerful because it's kiddy and it's by Nintendo
>Nintendo brought up>Seethe and delusion fill the threadWhy can't you just play your toddler games and let the adults talk?
>>732165472its a good thing if you like the console.
>>732185089>used to bearen't they still one of the biggest?
>>732206798do arcades use custom hardware anymore or do they all just use pc specs?
I'm still upset I tossed all my Dreamcast magazines in 2011 or something. My parents forced me to clean up my childhood room (despite them not moving out until 2023) and I really regret purging them.Fuck.At least I still own my 2 original Dreamcasts. Bought a second on 2007 when I started doing a VGA adapter.
>>732196481Even betterhttps://m.youtube.com/watch?v=qFwlRASfkqM
>>732200265It was on Naomi and PS2Just unfortunate timing is all
>>732196481that's pretty cool
>>732202357>the raw specslol you have no idea what you're talking about
I need a Dreamcast box. Anyone have some psd with this model?
>>732165783
