Why did MSAA die in games?>Muh deferred shadingTons of games use forward shading and still don't support it.
>>732193238framerate
>>732193340>MSAA is too heavy>Meanwhile, TSR takes up 2 milliseconds while looking smeary as fuck
>>732193479TSR is the most garbage TAA solution known to man.
thank nvidia that dlss exists
DLAA and DLSS are great but I do kinda miss MSAAx8 being an option. It is still the absolute best looking AA solution.
>>732193238it gets more demanding the more complex graphics get AND it does barely anything at all with modern rendering pipelines anyway, so it simply reached a point where you might as well just downsamplejust turn on msaa in rdr2 and see for yourself
It's not the default preset anymore.
>>732193238Because MSAA addresses a specific type of spatial jaggies that used to be the main type of aliasing back when graphics were on the level of cardboard boxes. The type of aliasing and image instability you see in modern games for the most part just does not get addressed by MSAA at all unless you want a really hefty performance cost.
MSAA only fixes edges. Tons of aliasing still exists within surfaces.In old games that did support MSAA, you still had to brute-force transparencies with a driver option, basically amounting to SSAA.
>>732193238anti aliasing is for fags, 200% internal resolution is the endgame of pixel perfect image
>>732193238For me it was FXAA, only 1% performance penalty and the slight blur made for a softer image that made jaggies and shimmering less distracting
>>732195326FXAA was great for lower end hardware before that whole DLSS and raytracing bullshit came into play. Now it's almost as shitty as MSAA.
I still can't run MSAA (doesn't even say what quality it is) in MWO on my 9070 without getting GPU limited in some scenarios. A 12 year old cryengine 3 game.
>>732195326>1% performance to make the image look worse
>>732195396No joke I think the newer AMD cards have had some sort of performance regression with regards to MSAA. There are some old games which I swear ran better on a 6600 with MSAA than my current 9060.
>>732195654Doubt.MSAA is just super heavy in more modern games at 1080p and above.At around MSAAx4 diminishing returns kick in and you are better off just using SSAA.
>>732196113I said "old games." Like Half-Life 2 and Mirror's Edge and stuff. Fair enough to doubt it but I don't mean anything even remotely recent.
>>732193238MSAA is a solution for geometric aliasing, the jaggies you can see in a still image. But most of the aliasing you see in games now happens because of the visual differences between each frame, not because of the jaggies in each image. You may have heard of this under the term "temporal aliasing" well that's why temporal methods were invented (even though they come with their own problems) and it's why MSAA doesn't solve nearly as many problems as it used to.
MSAA sucks ass>get lucky and manage to buy a 3080 in 2020>try GTA IV with patch that restores Radio, fixes bugs, performance etc. >fuck something up and FXAA option doesnt work >whatever>Downsample the game from 6k to 4k to try and bruteforce the shimmering>not enough, still shimmers like crazy>on top of the downscaling use 4x MSAA>Much better but framerate tanks by like 40% and fences and powerlines still shimmer>8x MSAA, still shimmer and unplayable framerateI'm a DLSS believer now.
>>732193238Shit is heavy as fuckEnabled it in a game not long ago and it halved my framerate.Maybe it was OK back when people played at 480p, but not today at 4K.
>>732196347>still shimmerMSAA is unnecessarily compromised in many games. Watch Threat Interactive's latest video.
>>732197942fuck this shizo tard
>>732196284That makes sense. These old games use hardware AA, and it's common for newer hardware to emulate antiquated functions in shaders instead.
>>732198020He's not wrong, though. This game uses deferred shading but has decent MSAA. Runs at 1000 FPS with 4x MSAA on my rig.
>>732198341Show me this in a real game, what you posted looks like some prototype with the poly count of a early ps360 title.
>>732196284>I said "old games." Like Half-Life 2Fun fact: MSAA is fucked up in half life 2 and other source gamesIt has a nasty bug that creates tiny shimmery seams along edges in world geometryThe issue is made worse by source frequently subdividing surfaces for lighting reasonsIf you've ever been on a map with a pitch-black area of some kind (ie: the gm_construct dark room) you've probably seen it
>>732198473It's just some open-source voxel-based arena shooter. Nothing AAA about it.Here's a scene with full dynamic global illumination, running on integrated graphics.
>>732198552Isn't this just a general issue with polygons that aren't perfectly aligned at each vertex? I swear I have seen many shitty custom models shimmer because of this, even without AA.
>>732199572That's probably the underlying cause, but it is still an issue related to MSAA considering>every time I've seen it happening on brushwork (world geometry) it disappears as soon as MSAA is disabled>the valve developer community site documents this issue and points the finger at MSAA + surface subdivision (lightmaps + visleaves)>I've seen way less shitty custom models with misaligned vertices than I have maps with this issue, including maps made by non-retardsHere's an example of it right at the start of the dam map from hl2 where you fight the hunter chopper
>>732201285Maybe it's an issue with the map compilers. I vaguely recall John Carmack talking about trying to tackle issues with geometry subdivision, specifically something about "T-junctions".
>>732204741If it was a compiler problem I think autismos making custom compilers would've fixed it by now.The closest solution I've seen in that vein is shit like gmod's compilers or the hammer++ guy's compilers providing ways to reduce subdivision massively (bigger visleaves, bigger lightmap patches) but it's still not a 100% fix.It's gotta be something fucked up with however source does MSAA. Earlier I saw a github issue where someone said MSAA was causing seams on models too, but only with the SDK installed (see pic + filename)The problem only manifests when viewing surfaces at shallow angles and is only visible in dim or dark spaces so it's not a HUGE issue, but damn if it doesn't chafe my balls something fierce whenever I see it>"T-junctions"I don't think anyone on the face of the planet understands how this shit works. I just stick my head in the sand and pray -notjunc doesn't cause problems somehow. It hasn't gone horribly wrong yet so I don't careTL;DR Fuck source
