>Former Bethesda veteran Bruce Nesmith defends Bethesda's continued use of Gamebryo (nowadays the Creation Engine) pointing to the huge disruption that would be caused by a changeover.>Nesmith: "What you have to realize is that if you were to switch engines, and I'll say this for any game anywhere, is that it is a massive effort. You are talking about dozens of people spent doing nothing but making an engine work. ">"You are talking about putting your developers into a situation where they can't play the game. They may not even be able to work on making the game for long stretches because the engine is not there or up to snuff yet. ">"That's an enormous thing. We ran into it with Fallout 76. The engine had to be changed dramatically to do multiplayer. It made things extremely difficult for the team.">"Also, the Creation Engine has been tweaked to serve Bethesda’s purposes for so many years, decades really, that at this point, it's probably a wiser bet to keep working with it. The benefits that you get from switching to Unreal Engine are probably not going to materialize until two titles down the road.">"Every Bethesda game that has ever released has had major improvements made to the creation engine. Significant improvements are always being made to it. There's an entire team that's devoted to nothing but doing that. But the advantage you have there is that you can still run the game during the whole time because you have an existing engine. You're not having to figure out how to put this new thing in place.">"I would fall on the side of keeping the Creation Engine, keep working on it. If there's something you see that is only possible in Unreal, put it into the Creation Engine. That would be a place where if it’s anything vs everything you say let's do that. Let's do that anything. If Unreal does it and Creation doesn't, and we feel we need to do it, do it."
https://www.pcgamer.com/games/rpg/skyrims-lead-designer-thinks-bethesda-should-stick-to-its-in-house-engine-the-benefits-that-you-get-from-switching-to-unreal-engine-are-probably-not-going-to-materialise-until-two-titles-down-the-road/https://www.pressboxpr.co.uk/news/bruce-nesmith-exclusive-skyrims-design-lead-on-where-he-would-set-the-elder-scrolls-6-and-what-to-expect-from-the-future-of-fallout
>Translation: UE5 is a piece of shit. Don't use it.
The problem with Bethesda isn't the engine, it's the incompetent developers, artists, animators, project leads etcBully is on Gamebryo and looks and plays better than Starfield
>>732229973That is nice and all. But remember that those same incompetent developers are also working on the engine.
>>732229875So basically they're kicking the can down the road over and over again
>>732230147Again that's not the engine's fault, blaming Gamebryo is like blaming the computers they make the games on, or the cars they drive themselves to work in, everything people hate about Bethesda games is 100% on the people that work on it
>>732229969>Yeah UE5 is a piece of shit>Let's keep using Gamebryo
>>732230425This. This figure head is saying >if it ain’t broke don’t fix it Read as >we don’t want to work hard or better our team abloblloovloobloobloobloo let us do the bare minimum abloobloohoiohoo
>>732229969It's a lose-lose situation: players and devs have to either deal with an old, shitty, broken, limited engine or deal with them switching to a new, shitty, broken, limited engine.
The engine would hardly matter if they were good at the rest of game design. If they had good writing, compelling world building (they don't). If they made good combat that had a good difficulty curve ( they don't). If they made complex and nuanced quests with many branching outcomes allowing for different builds to roleplay (they don't). If they did any of these things well people could forgive the bad animations, graphics, and art style.
>>732229875They know modders carry their asses and that getting rid of them would spell bankruptcy.
>>732230425>everything people hate about Bethesda games is 100% on the people that work on itThose 100% contains the people who made most of the fucking engine. Or do you think it is still the same shit as when they first bought it 30 years ago?And no. The engine being liquid shit doesn't mean that they are also not also shit at making games. Both things can be true at once.
>>732230595It’s an rpg the option to break the game and allow your stats/build to one shot every enemy from mook to final boss should always be allowed viable and encouraged regardless of of irrelevant factors like difficulty
Yeah, it's really hard to learn a new engine. Guess we've gotta stick to fucking Assembly, then.
>>732229875There's nothing actually wrong with Gamebryo, its that they only spend the bare minimum developing it. Bethesda as a studio is and always has been known for making games that can be sold as AAA for a B budget on the development backend. They do this by making a toolkit they send to outsourced studios for asset and content creation, this is the only reason the games are so modifiable. The toolkits they release are just the same tools with features removed made into a distributed package. They don't actually give a single fuck about supporting mods beyond min/maxing gains by creatively recycling work that basically done already.Gaymers don't understand and blame the engine, but the only reason for studios like Bethesda and others exist is because of their in house engines. They cease to exist as anything but a marketable brand name the moment they switch to something like UE5. CDPR and Bethesda both were basically dead already though so it kind of doesn't matter and is just splitting hairs. But yeah anyone claiming the problem is gamebryo is and always was retarded. That's what actual developers do, they design and program engines to meet the needs of the studios. Everyone else just makes assets or are drag and drop menu monkeys.
>>732230445gamebryo is unironically better than ue5
>>732229875nublivion is on UE5 and it runs worse than starfield
When do the benefits of sticking with their own engine begin to materialize?
>>732231876It does have its problems but it's very apparent when some retard says some shit like "gamebryo can't do ladders" as if the engine CANNOT accommodate for an object the player presses X on, resulting in a specific animation playing, and ending with the player character being a certain Y coordinate higher is ridiculous. The engine already does this shit with chairs
>>732232057They have have been materializing for decades now, people would eat literal shit if it was Fallout or Skyrim branded.
>>732229973Starfield's engine looks and runs great, it even has impressive physics. The game just sucks on a design level. It's poorly conceived. You could put the greatest devs of all time on it and give them a 5 trillion dollar budget and you'll never get that setting and plot to be fun.
>>732230773The engines not bad, its just extremely niche. Its very good at holding values over long play sessions (50+ hours), giving developers easy ways to create and divide modules and its good for strategy games and rpgs. The problem is the only experience you think you've had is Bethesda slop. Gamebyro predates massive, open world games and it wasnt built with this in mind. Engines have been developed to handle this better than bethesdas Frankenstein engine. It was originally good for its role but it really only exists as a cheap alternative to better options at this point. Judging the engine based off Bethesda is like judging all of video games based off EAs madden slop. Other notable gamebyro games >civ 4>odd world: munches odyssey >Catherine >sid meiers pirates>the guild 2Its not a
>>732232061but it was hilarious at the time when new Vegas modders made it possible while Todd complained they couldn't do it,at last with *pukes* starfield this particular meme issue is out of the door
>>732232240It doesn't, it still has that classic Bethesda "walking through molasses" feel where even the bullets feel slow and mouse aiming is janky as shit
>>732232391Todd is a retarded symptom of the disease >Hey Todd, your game runs like shit, you guys should really optimize it>erm, no, it IS optimized! Maybe it's time to upgrade your PC!
>>732229973Correct. The problem is Bethesda itself. If they had any competent staff on their payroll, a large contingent of the well-known issues that their customized forks of the Gamebryo Engine have suffered since basically day one, would have been solved thrice-over a decade ago.Sadly, the harsh truth is that they have the collective brain power of a retarded 5 year old - it seems. Total fucking muppets.
>>732232386>it wasnt built with this in mind>Engines have been developed to handle this better>cheap alternativeSure sounds like they should ditch it.
It's not that Gamebryo CAN'T do a lot of shit, it's that Bethesda are nincompoops who don't know how to do things. Larian had functional ladders in a Gamebryo engine game for a decade and Todd was all like "NOPE CAN'T DO LADDERS" and Bethesda devs think that covering tiny maps in worthless trash items is peak interactive environment...like Starfield and how it placed blue office binders & coffee mugs all over. Yup that's IMSIM as FUCK!
>>732232612>a corporation >should stop being cheapYes. A pity isn't it?
>>732231962Technically it's the old engine being emulated in UE5. And runs like dogshit yes.
>>732232057Happened 20 years ago with oblivion
>>732229875>WAAAAAAAAAAHHH OUR MULTI BILLION DOLLAR COMPANY WITH THOUSANDS OF EMPLOYEES CAN'T SWITCH AN ENGINE BECAUSE IT'S TOOO HAAAAAAAAAAAAAWWWWDDDDD WA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHH
>>732229875The problem is that Japanese developers suck at writing and western developers suck at gameplay.
I will take a broken ass Gamebryo over a broken ass Unreal any day.
Yet Creative Assembly was able to make an entire new engine. They knew it was so old and giga fucked with tech debt that if they released another game on it SEGA would gut the studio. Why can't Bethesda do the same?
>>732229875>zoomers want Skyrim on UE5lmao zoomers really are retarded. fucking fortnite rotted their brains
>>732232386>>732233121maybe thats' why the guild 2 was such an unstable piece of shit. Every time we tried coop it would desync.
>>732233217Questions we really have no answers for we can only guess it's management issues,would be nice if some clown like Jason Schreier did an interview over this with people in charge over this thus making people like him finally not obsolete in this industry >>732233323Still a phenomenal game,kek *burns his rivals house down because I made it legal*
>>732233558Oh for sure. Despite its jank the guild 2 was still fun to fuck around in. It's a shame we don't see more games quite like it. We probably won't either after the guild 3.
Bethesda has id Software and the former head honcho of the Cryengine that is Tiago to help themBut THEY NEVER ASK FOR HELP on the engine side.And idtech still shits hard on UE5
>>732229875>Skyrim's lead designerfake job. Skyrim has no design.
>>732229894thank you for not being a retarded nigger and actually linking the article
>>732232908>WAAAAAAAAAH A BILLION PREGNANT WOMEN CAN'T MAKE 1 BABY IN A MONTH
>>732232057kek
Speaking as someone who's both done a good bit of modding in Creation Kit, and developed for Unreal, he's probably right. UE5 is really the first engine that Bethesda could have ever swapped to, and even then, there's not a lot of gain for the colossal pain it would cost in time, effort, and money.You were not going to get the results of large highly manipulable, dynamic, and persistent world out of Unreal 3 or 4 (or lmao Unity). You maybe could have licensed another studio's in-house nightmare, but at that point, you may as well have just stuck to the one you were developing yourself.The best thing UE5 really brings to the table, is World Partition, but that was BASED ON THE CREATION ENGINE- going so far as to lifting terms directly from the Creation Engine when it was first revealed. You could argue it's easier to train people on UE5 than Creation (not true, given the number of mods still coming out for Skyrim), but obviously there's a shortage of well-trained UE5 developers- given how many unoptimized games use the platform. Oh, and Lumen is a piece of shit.
I like how everyone says Bethesda sucks, creation engine sucks, etc and yet there isn't a single fucking game like skyrim or fallout not a single fucking one they all fall shortthey might individually do better combat, or graphics, or whatever none of them have npc schedules, none of them have worlds as big with as much stuff in them and none of them have a creation kitthere hasn't been a skyrim killer in 15 fucking years despite bethesda apparently being the most incompetent company ever that is filled with jeets and libtards and literal demons that rose from hell skyrim sold so much across so many platforms that every game company in the world should have scrambled to catch it's flash in the pan and yet nothing has dethroned it explain it
>>732232057since oblivion they have a monopoly on the genre
Josh Sawyer said the same thing despite working for years with UEhttps://youtu.be/oB-YzZ4D09Q
>>732234817The last TES or Fallout game released over 10 years ago. The reason everyone cries about how Bethesda sucks is because they're regurgitating a meme they heard.They don't have the experience of playing these games because they're too young and they missed out. They never got a chance to live in a world where Skyrim was a new game. Let alone Oblivion or Morrowind, hell not even Fallout 4.They are simply ignorant of how good these games are because they can't know what they can't know. They are incapable of enjoying them the same way we did, because the world those games exist in now has been irreversibly spoiled by the passage of time. To intoxicate themselves with their innocence, they fill in the blanks with a humorous story about this pathological-lying guy and his comedically bad games. But that's all it is, a story. A meme.
>UE 5 is shit>Creation Engine is bogged down with technical debt>Fans make their own better engine>Somehow Bethesda can't do the sameUE being a framerate destroyer doesn't mean they have to stay married to their slow and buggy current engine.
>>732229875That's probably true.
>>732235614>OpenMW>betterabsolute delusion
>>732236345You can't prove him wrong.
>>732235614Arc raiders is UE and runs fine on my shitbox. I have a feeling devs are just being lazy fucks what it comes to optimizing. I'd rather have a game play at 60 fps instead of being able to count the characters individual nose hairs.
>>732232057>>732232057>>732232057https://www.wabbajack.org/gallery?game=skyrimspecialedition
>>732230445CE is perfect for the type of games Morrowind and Skyrim were, yeah.
>>732229875>You are talking about putting your developers into a situation where they can't play the game. They may not even be able to work on making the game for long stretches because the engine is not there or up to snuff yetThat's what happened with CDPR and Cyberscam, where they were redeveloping the RED Engine alongside the game and the whole thing was a fucking mess.
>>732229875>If there's something you see that is only possible in Unreal, put it into the Creation EngineArmchair redditors in shambles.
>>732238191Bioware bought the engine they used to make TOR when it wasn't even finished yet which is why it runs like shit and looks like shit. They had to finish developing an engine they didn't even make which is wild to say out loudI don't know what the Bioware exec who saw the engine thought he was doing but it's clear it's a big reason why TOR didn't do very well
>>73223205711/11/11
>>732234817>>732235608This. Pick an internet comment at random complaining about the Creation Engine and tell me, do you truly believe that person has put in the work into investigating what the engine does, what it doesn't, how that works behind the scenes with the kind of worlds Bethesda used to create up to 2012 and how it has changed since? Or do you believe they're just repeating what their favorite e-celeb said about loading screens?
>>732235614>Morrowind NPCs still stand around doing nothing and can't even sit down
extensive modding is the onlychance TES6 has of being worth playing so moving away from creation engine would be moronic
>>732239991Don't worry, they'll shoot themselves in the foot by pushing the Creation Club bullshit too soon after release and putting people off because of their rampant greed.
>>732240434yeah i wouldnt be surprised if they massively limit modding or dont release the modding tools for way longer than the other games because they want to sell that club garbage first
>>732229875As shit and old and held together with duct tape and spit as Gamebryo/Creation is, I'll still take it over a more modern engine, because switching engines is effectively the end of Bethesda modding as we know it. The only reason Bethesda games can have both porn mods and entirely new content and story mods is because the engine and modding tools have remained largely unchanged for about twenty years.
>>732229875Gamebryo BAD? I believe Gamebryo GOOD!
>>732229875Why did they let him talk? The best thing bethesda ever did was to let Todd talk about mountains and dragons. He's a professional bullshitter. They should not let other developers answer questions.
>>732239991>extensive modding is the onlychance TES6 has of being worth playingA good game doesnt need modding to be playable or to be worth playing.Also, you say that because you want to play dollhouse dressup and goon to weebshit looking chars/dolls. Your only interest and drive being gooning and elden souls borne slop, much like right now with skyrim.I have a full expectation that the game will be bad, and what this anon said >>732240434.
>>732240736physics are an important litmus test, but both games in this video are utter shit
>>732241285>Also, you say that because you want to play dollhouse dressup and goon to weebshit looking chars/dollsim not interested in that, nor shitty souls-style combat awkwardly transplanted onto skyrim. there's lots of good mods for TES gamesTES6 will probably be bad enough that mods can't salvage it, but there's a very slim chance
>>732229875With the crazy shit modders can do with limited support, I believe it.
Didn't expect there to be Creation Engine defenders on /v/.
>>732243614>didn't expect people to think for themselvesYeah I can tell.
>>732229875The engine talk was never nothing but a convenient target for /v/ midwits to latch onto for their endless whining
>>732243614>Liquid shit, or solid shitI mean, I've gotta pick solid.
>>732234817>>732235608>>732238928Based
>>732243614Gamebryo is a good engine specifically for RPGs which is why modding elder scrolls and by extension fallout games is so easy and prevalent. It's always been Bethesda being shit developers that made it look bad.
>>732243614I mean for open world games it's much better then UE.It's not the best piece of tech but it does have some upsides
>>732245159its a shit engine and theyd genuinely be better off swapping, but its not worth losing the availability of modding that gamebro/CE gets us.
>>732245159What's funny is years ago so many people wanted them to switch to UE but after how lackluster it's been less people hold that opinionPlus most people know very little about this stuff so yeah midwit central
if gamebyro didn't have to be instanced to shit with loading doors everywhere it would be a god tier engine.
>>732243614>>732234817explain it
>>732238625kek
>>732245729everyone else aimed higher,and failed mostly given last few years. why would you try and sell shit twice to people who already own it.
>>732245936>call of duty modern warfare 3 (the second)
>>732245935Amazing meme. I'm not seething at all.
>>732229875im suspicious of any company that relies on decades old tech/methods. after enough time passes the narrative shifts from it being an efficient choice to the company as a whole being unable to adapt to changing times
Bethesda is so grossly incompetent that it really doesn't matter what engine they use. So it probably is better that they stick with what they know "best."
>>732246092>>732245729
>>732230425>It's not the engine, it's the people
>>732246215>>732246113
What's with all the >random asshole who works at/used to work at bethesda says shit you don't care aboutarticles lately.
>>732246242>>732246215
>>732246215Yes.
>>732230445Gamebryo might not be the best but it gets the job donehttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jql-LiomGCE
>>732229875>The benefits that you get from switching to Unreal Engine are probably not going to materialize until two titles down the roadby that time all the original staff will be dead of old age so why not try something new since all their replacements will have never used their shitty engine
>>732246409There is a awful lot of failure on that list for a problem that according to you is only caused by Bethesda devs. It's almost like the few successes on that list managed to be good in spite of using a shitty engine.
>>732245936>everyone else aimed higherlmao
>>732246532The real question is what benefit would they get from switching?
>>732246590>There is a awful lot of failure on that listYes, and?>>>732246590>according to you is only caused by Bethesda devs"/v/ is one person" huh?
>>732246686Honestly, probably no benefit at all.
>>732234817That's like asking "if windows is so bad, why does everyone use it?". It's called momentum. Games of that size take an incredible amount of resources to make, and unless you have an established name like Elder Scrolls to slap on the cover it's probably going to flop. They couldn't even branch out with Starfield without losing that momentum. And just like how no little up-and-comer can compete with an established brand with momentum like Microsoft to dethrone Windows, no one is going to put those resources into a game in the genre that everyone is going to ignore because it doesn't say "Elder Scrolls" on it.
Nobody would care if modern Bethesda could write worth a damnSkyrim had one nuanced and interesting quest line (the Civil War, and don't even try to say otherwise because people to this day argue about who's the better one to side with)People aren't going to care if the gameplay is absolute basic bitch mediocre and the continued popularity of all their past games is proof of that. One of the highest rated rpgs of recent years is BG3 and that game's combat is incredibly simple as far as crpgs go.I don't think modern Bethesda can pull off writing on even the level of Skyrim or Oblivion much less Morrowind.
>>732229875they really just need to figure out how to get rid of loading screens
>>732247836why do zoomers hate loading screens so much? I understand being annoyed by waiting to play the game, but I don't get why they prefer to wait for an elevator or watch an animation of their character squeezing through a crack in the wall.
>>732246397do you know what that image means?
>>732233002name one AAA western game in the last 10 that had a good story
>>732248051In Bethesda games specifically, it always ruins immersion watching NPCs disappear through doors or not being able to see out of the windows of a house - things like that
>people who know nothing about development tyring to dictate what engine developers should use
bethesda should use rpgmaker for TES6 imo
>>732229875Bethesda will fail Look at fallout Look at starfield which has interracial propaganda and space Jews
>>732248816html
aaah, getting the good old Intel 12nm++++++++++++++++++ vibes from this
>>732246042>changing timeswhat are you talking about?
>>732229875Is it difficult to make your own engine?
>>732249705at all? not reallyany good? yeahgood enough that rushed lazy devs won't suck using it and make laymen retard gamers think it sucks? impossible with current technology
>>732230445unironically yes
>>732245729/v/ hated Creation due to things they never understood. People swore up and down that "it can't do ladders". When there are ladder mods. They said the same with vehicles.
>>732232057The benefits are immediate when you don't owe royalties to the people who own the engine.
>>732250436there's something uncanny about the way that scope looks
>>732248051>fallout 4 loading is tied to refresh rate>a top of the line PCIE SSD loads at the same speed as the hard drive in my windows 8 pc>going into the prydwen and back requires 6 loading screens
>>732250664>>fallout 4 loading is tied to refresh ratelmao what, first time i've heard that surely there are mods to fix that if so
>>732250553i think it's too small on screen, most scopes would just be black if you looked through from that far, unless it's a weird scout rifle one with a crazy focus length. the crosshairs look really big too
This buggy pos was outdated even in 2011.
>>732250436
>>732246042Pic is you
>>732250765it is, if you disable frame limits in nvidia control panel it loads really fast but also runs too fast if you're in a simple scene with high fps. i downloaded a load accelerator that's supposed to disable the limit only in loading screens and then put it back for gameplay, but it didn't seem any faster. i also have a weird 75 hz monitor and i let the game run at 75 fps, so loading and gameplay are both 25% faster. it's not too fast to playi wonder if that anniversary update changed any of this
>>732250664That's hilariously dumb but has nothing to do with loading screens in general, in fact, it's much more common for "hidden loading" animations to have a fixed duration no matter how fast your nvme is. Which is why I hate them.
As long as they fix the Doom Timer every save is infected with upon generation I could give a fuck.
>>732229875>he benefits that you get from switching to Unreal Engine are probably not going to materialize until two titles down the road."Retard actually unironically thinks this is a defense for the continued use of their dogshit engine.>"Every Bethesda game that has ever released has had major improvements made to the creation engine. Significant improvements are always being made to it.And yet bethesda still haven't been able to figure out decades old solved problems like no loading to enter towns or buildings and no invisible walls after walking for 10 minutes.
>>732251318wat
>>732249705Larian made their own engine when they were close to bankruptcy. If they can do it there's no reason why other studios can't. Maybe the tiny startups can't but AA studios that has tasted success definitely can.
>>732251373>like no loading to enter towns or buildingsthat's done to protect your shitbox toaster>nd no invisible walls after walking for 10 minutestards like you go to the edge of the map and somehow manage to blame someone else
>>732251379Saves - especially saves in modded games - will eventually become incredibly, agonizingly bloated, which affects performance. It builds up more and more until it will eventually nuke your game and you'll have to start over because each save, even on an SSD, takes about 2 minutes to complete and then loading it takes even longer. It can happen even on unmodded, but it's a much slower build up; the second you start going in with a relatively modded setup with lots of quests or things that require scripts, you're fucked.
>>732251415Their engine is also extremely limited in comparison. Scope matters. It's easy to make an engine for a platformer. It's a project but doable to make an engine for a game like Larian's. It's extremely fucking hard to make an engine for a multi-perspective physics-based open world with scheduled and scripted NPCs in a fully 3D world.
>>732251318>>732251508that was only a problem on the x32 version, it was fixed in x64
>>732251469>that's done to protect your shitbox toasterMassive cope. Even fucking PS3 games didn't need loading screens to go into buildings.>tards like you go to the edge of the map and somehow manage to blame someone elseThe mental gymnastics to defend Shartfields abysmal invisible walls where you have to go through 57 different loading screens to move a pixel over so you can continue "exploring" the planet until you encounter the next invisible wall.
>>732234817>there isn't a single fucking game like skyrim or fallout>not a single fucking oneYupEven bugthesda can't make oneSkyrim turn 15 this yearsFallout 4 turn 12
>>732250317That creature that jumps down from the containers reminds me of the Shivans from Freespace.
>>732250553Because scopes aren't used that way.
>>732251942LPVOs are
>>732250436>>732250553Thats how it works IRL anon. Few games manage to do see-through scopes right. Killing Floor and Alpha Prime were those.
>>732252014>>732252153ntas but games will never apply what a scope looks like because they only show one visual imagescopes take advantage of the fact that you have two eyes and you kind of just overlay the reticle onto your sight but also get some magnificationit's fucked if you try to think about it but if you don't your brain just makes it workit's like how if you look down you can see your nose but normally you just edit it out of your FOV without noticingif you don't have actual glass it's hard to understand
>>732252447ever played squad? thoughts on scopes in that game?
>>732252447here's another picture that sort of it explains it, but irl everything is offset too
>>732252720makes sense actually, never considered that
>>732229875Whichever one comes faster. Its fucking bizarre they can keep taking a decade to release a steaming hot pile of mid. And people still buy it.
>>732252720this is what it really looks like and why i never got why people list no iron sights as a problem in fallout 3, i always have it off in new vegas because the cowboy repeater is unusable with "true" sights
>>732229875Gamebryo 2.0 is fine, modders know it better than bethesda. I'm fine with bethesda releasing sandboxes for actually talented developers to play with.
>>732252967>because the cowboy repeater is unusable with "true" sightsThat and how low poly the weapon models were
>>732252806yeah one easy way to get an idea is hold your outstretched fingers in front of one eye like ~6 inches awayyou can see your hand, but you can also see through it no problem
He's right, I'm still having a blast with Morrowind
>>732250553the scope has no depth when you're aiming through it, it just pops in a flat circle with a zoomed in view of what you're looking at
The actual quote:>lmao they'll buy it anyway
>>732243614Because people who complain about Creation Engine complain about stupid shit like ladders and loading screens
>>732229875How bad is UE5 to work with if Bethesda would rather stick with their own shit box?
>>732229875Modern bethesda is incapable of making good games no matter the engine.
>>732254632Your average UE5 game performs way worse than a Bethesda title with significantly less complexity like hundreds of physics objects on screen at the same time
>>732254632ue5 is so bad it's unreal
>>732254819
>muh NPC schedules>muh physicsOkay, why do Bethesda's games do nothing interesting with these mechanics then?
>>732254632An engine is a tool, even if UE5 is the best engine ever for an open world game using it is going to do jack shit to fix Bethesda's incompetent structure.
>>732229875Muh Enginefags on suicide watch.
>>732255040people like you treat interesting physics gameplay as "put the heavy object on the seesaw to go up to a higher location"
>>732229875The fact of the matter is that both engines are garbage, both are built on top of aged code dating back to the pre-millennium that they can't change because otherwise the engine would crash and burn. Unreal is better at hiding the cracks despite still being shit, but the Creation Engine is a fucking slum and this retarded designer is coping and inhaling his own farts.Devs using Unreal should bear with it for the moment, but start making a design document for a next gen engine. Then wait for coding AI to get better in general and when it's time have an AI built the new engine from the ground up. Because nobody in this fucking industry will ever bother wasting time building a new engine themselves besides some autistic JP developers, there's no money, time, will and talent to do that shit manually anymore.
>>732256147>both are built on top of aged code dating back to the pre-millennium that they can't change because otherwise the engine would crash and burn.This is how you can tell someone knows jack shit about engines or code
>>732256236If they couldn't change the legacy code of Unreal then they would be able to support more then 25 niggas on a map.
>>732256313Let me ask you what do you think is a good game engine
>>732256236I'm sure you had a wonderful time working on the Unreal Engine anon, tell the class what changes your team has made lately to the old code.
>>732230147UE5 is also made by incompetent retards though.
>>732256356One that streamlines most things I otherwise would have to do manually without stopping me from being able to do it if a situation called for it.
>>732256504I wanted you to name an engine you think is good not what makes a good engine
Is starfield a good modded game yet or did everyone jump ship cuz the base to work with sucks?
>>732229875UE5 is trash so he's probably right.They have absolutely got to give it some major upgrades, though. All the instancing and constant load screens just aren't acceptable anymore.
>>732229875Why doesn't Bethesda licence out their engine to other developers? It would help the image of their engine and would also make them money. Kinda feels like the natural evolution of selling mods.Or perhaps Bethesda is afraid of losing their monopoly on Bethesda style games. Maybe they're self aware enough to know that others would be able to make better games than they could.
>>732229973Bethesda are the current maintainers of the engine, so yes you can blame Bethesda, their software engineers kind of suck a lot of ass, Starfield runs like shit and has middling visuals.
>>732229875The Obsidian remaster somehow combined the worst of both engines. We can only pray they don’t do the same for TES6. But if I had to choose it would be Bethesda’s in house engine.
>>732256962You gotta have a support team if you license out engines. They barely have enough devs to make 1 game a decade. Imagine if the programmers kept being pulled off the project to help some other studio with their fuck ups as well.Also, nobody but Epic makes any money off licensing their engine. Even Unity loses money with their engine, they only make money off advertising.
>>732256962What a retarded post, the reason UE5 is popular is because it's general purpose and schools teach UE5. People use UE5 because its cheaper to hire for it.
>>732232386>Gamebyro predates massive, open world games and it wasnt built with this in mind.Rift (the MMO) runs on gamebryo and features a world map that can be traversed without load screens. It also has underwater exploration and combat.Regarding Bethesda's handling of the open world, they modified gamebryo already during development of Morrowind. Ken Rolston came up with the idea of dividing the world map into a grid of small cells and the engine programmers created a system of loading and unloading those cells. This is more or less the same thing Epic came up with UE5 and tried to sell it as some groundbreaking tech.
>>732234817Yup, yup! Creation engine for life. Uniqueness will always outshine standardization in video games
>>732256356Creation Engine.>>732255040Sometimes you just gotta throw shit around and destroy a shopkeeper's house. If you can't figure out how to use limitless potential, that's your fault for being retarded.
UE5 is trash and any dev who uses it in the next few years is going to pay for it with low sales. People can't afford the hardware needed to run UE5 games.
>>732229875Their gamebryo would be fine if they at least tried to fix its lackings and shortcomings.The problem is they don't want to.They could have tried to do it ages ago for FO4.But they didn't.So this really just comes across an excuse to continue being lazy to me.
>>732257892Or they lacked the funds to do so, but now that they have them microshart is not interested or is not letting them as they need the golden goose to lay eggs shareholders demands it or however the line must go up kvetchers sees it necessary
>>732241435What's wrong with grounded? It's just baby's first survival game
>>732246042Pushing the envelope for games just means less user base on PC. For all the hell shadows give FPS, most people just turn them off if it means 15->60 fps.
>>732229969Bethesda's engine is so old and bug-ridden it might be the one time I would say UE5 is an actual improvementAt least you can open doors and climb ladders in UE
>>732262543A bethesda game in UE5 would be a disaster.One big novelty bethesda games have over others is that there are thousands of objects with physics in the world that remain in the last place you left them.They would never be able to recreate this in UE5, imagine a bog standard UE-slop title and now imagine it's slightly worse and that's what the hacks at bethesda would be able to accomplish in that engine.
>>732229875unironically gamebryo was better than CE it was much more stable and pliable, like it peaked somewhere at F3 and then it's just spaghetti code from there
>>732257143Bethesda has quadruped their employees since Fallout 4. What's stopping them from hiring more? They also have Microsoft backing now. Microsoft could make a massive team working on the Creation engine and use it for first party Xbox titles. With a big enough team they could fix all the shortcomings the engine has.>>732257162>Private game engine isn't used by the public Yeah, no shit you absolut Genius. They would at least have the biggest modding community on the planet to hire from just like Bethesda does.
>>732257892what problems did it cause in fo4?>>732262543not an engine problem
>>732230425Usage of "Gamebryo" for Bethesda's shit is a misnomer anyway because the Gamebryo isn't an engine in the same vein as something like Unreal. Renderware worked similarly, it was only a renderer.
>>732237679>>732238625lollmao even
>>732229875What really makes me think is that blow has spent ten years making a programming language and a game engine and a game all from scratch with a small studio, while all the million employee studios switched to unreal to make games faster and they take ten years to put out games anyways.I can't wait for when it turns out that using AI has actually saved everyone another negative ten years on every project while factorializing the number of workers needed a second time.
>>732232240starfield looks and runs like shit
>>732255040But they do.
>>732270375>>732232240Anything on Bethesda's engines is janky as hell, but one thing I've found impressive since Oblivion is that it works rather well with Havok physics, like I remember watching videos on early YouTube in 2006 of people having fun spawning shittons of physics objects interacting with each other running rather smoothly, doing the exact same thing on something like say Source (which also used Havok) on the same exact hardware at the time would have made the game shit itself (I sure remember spawning a lot of shit in early Gmod, then using the Gravity Gun and having the game freeze for a second)
>>732229973i would say its ALSO the incompetent staff.The bad engine also heavily limits what a dev can even do with it. Starfield was a loading-screen simulator for a reason no? loads of engines that tailor themselves to large, open world games do not have that problem, OG World of Warcraft in what, 2006? had an entire continent that could be flown through from top to bottom without any loading screens at all.
>>732257251
>>732262543>At least you can open doors and climb laddersThat's nice, now explain to the class what you would *lose* by dropping CE. Go on.
>>732270726One of the biggest reasons Bethesda sticks to its own engine is so that you can have a world with shittons of little interactable physics object with the game remembering each one persistently, but it comes with its tradeoffs being not suited to large dynamic open areas and being janky as hell. I'm sure you there is no reason in principle you couldn't develop a more modern engine that has all of that while also making loading easier, but they probably wouldn't bother with such a colossal undertaking.
Guess what, Bethesda: Creativity is the name of the game. People would rather see an original engine like the Gamebryo even if slightly less realistic graphics instead of another "state of the art" slopfest in UE.
Games should have their own engines, period. Notch was right for once.Oblivion remaster only succeeded because of good marketing. In practice it ran like dogshit
>>732263102>gamebryo was better than CE it was much more stable and pliablelmfao in what fucking universe, Oblivion Fallout 3 and NV are easily the least stable, most prone to crashing Bethesda games.
>>732269819>small towns, wyverns, simplistic dungeon maps, crummy graphics, slow combat, armor clipping>and yet nothing has beaten it
>732269819 (You)Nobody likes you.
>>732258494left is avowed, right is starfield, neither is grounded
>>732257120>>732257120>Starfield runs like shitI hate the game but it doesn't run like shit. For having 1000s of interactable physical in the same space it runs fucking amazingly well. Even when you turn off gravity now those 1000s of object are now floating around it still runs great Try doing that shit in ue5 and you'll overheat your computer
>>732271938Yup! There's a clear difference between looking like shit and running like shit, the art direction is what's terrible
>>732272195to be honest, i tried to play it on a 1050 2GB when it released and it was unplayable, despite looking like a game that should run on that card easilyive got a better card now but 0 interest in trying it
>>732229875>If there's something you see that is only possible in Unreal, put it into the Creation Engine.What things are only possible in Unreal Engine?
>>732252447If you don't own a gun you can get a similar effect by looking thought the viewfinder of a camera with one eye while leaving the other eye open to watch the scene.
>>732232240>fluroide stair
>>732272494Nothing except premade assets and templates for lazy devs
>>732234817Skyrim is the worse AAA game I've ever played
>>732272672>fluroide stair
>>732229875>climbable ladders never ever
>>732272783Play more games.
>>732254509>its stupid to complain about constant immersion breaking loading screens, lack of vehicles, and the inability to preform any mobility action other than walk, walk faster, and crouch.Just play rdr2
>>732229875>You are talking about dozens of people spent doing nothing but making an engine workthis is a problem but dozens of people doing damage control on your shitty launches is fine>you're preventing devs from working on stuffbro you are developing three games at once usually and lately for years and years. just take a year to unfuck yourselves
>>732272871??
>>732272941>loading screensNTA but borderlands got rid of the loading screen with 4 and got rid the soul on the way
>>732246358Trying to buy time because they know Elder Scroll 6 is never coming but they want to leech as much money out of games like fallout 4 before Microsoft catches on to the ruse and euthanizes the studio.
>>732272783I too wish I was 11 and easily influenced again.
Creation Engine being bad has always been a reddit meme. What they've been managed to achieve with it is actually extremely impressive. Bethesda games are the only games where you can pick up a fork, place it in any position on the map and 50 hours and 200 save games later come back and find it in exactly the same spot. There's a reason we don't even have a single other open world game that does that.
>>732252778>yeah bro it can totally handle vehicles
>>732270981Bethesda isnt creative
>>732273050that's clearly AI
>>732273050You need to understand people who criticize the Creation Engine don’t know shit about game engines. No ladders was a design decision because they’re fucking pointless and add nothing to the game. These midwits always ask if they could not if they should
>"Speaking to PC Gamer, former Skyrim designer and Elder Scrolls loremaster Kurt Kuhlmann explained that Bethesda found the location to be an easy choice for the next mainline game. Unfortunately, they didn’t reveal what the location actually is">“From when we were talking about it back in the Fallout 4 timeframe, there was a sort of consensus amongst a few people that were talking about it,” Kuhlmann said. Although, he admits that the location may have changed in the three years since he left the studio. (That seems unlikely)>“We had an idea, but it was more of a consensus,” he said. “Like, ‘OK, where should the next game be?’ And the people that were talking all agreed. It was not an argument, it was like, ‘well, obviously it should be here’. We were more in the feel of it, in the setting; there was no story involved yet”
>>732272925>>732273146Im not even joking. I wasn't into videogames when Skyrim was originally released but I was still in the nerd sphere and heard great things. So I bought the game recently and I genuinely can't even get to the shouts its so bad. It's not engaging. The NPCs are dogshit and just walk around and sometimes do scripted events ala Fallout 4, but it doesn't mean anything. Doesn't do anything. NPC schedules don't contribute anything and it's not like you're ever going to get a task that requires you to follow someone's schedule instead of finding them via the omnipresent marker.Won't comment on the story because Ive never played the game through but I never felt engaged by it and the world feels boring. There's way too many missions that's just you spelunking fighting frost zombies and spiders, and the few times you do fight other people it sucks due to the combat system.Never in my life have I seen such a bare-bones fighting system. There's no proper blocking (reducing damage intake isn't blocking sorry), no parrying, chambers, or ripostes. Zero movement tech, you can't dive out of the way of a arrow or a sword slash, nor can you deflect it. Every battle is just a two-part play of identifying if your a high enough level to deal enough damage, and then health item spamming while mindlessly swinging until they fall over. Minecraft tier.I'm sure it was ground breaking when it came out but it certainly doesn't hold up.
lmao I still remember /v/edditors crying about how bethesda should switch to UE5 because of how amazing it isnow every turd is made in UE5 and the poors cannot run it without framegen
>>732273773Did they accidentally a word in that headline?
>>732247085nobody sane gives a shit about video game writingits why mongoloids like you put garbage like morrowind on a pedestal, one of the worst written games of all time.
>>732274015it's because when people care about videogame writing they're usually praising poorly written pseud garbage like disco elysium
>>732250317I still remember when /v/ was discussing if new Atlantis would have invisible walls around it or a loading trigger because nobody could believe that they had open cities
Starfield has ladders and carsClearly its the best bethesda game ever according to /v/
>>732232057
why are ex employees giving interviews about the internal workings of Bethesda all of a sudden?Like I know Kurt quit in 2023 but why right now.
>>732274295he probably gave a single interview and then every site is just picking apart every statement and turning it into a clickbait article
>>732273871>I wasn't into videogames when Skyrim was originally released>It's not engaging>doesn't mean anything>Doesn't do anything>NPC schedules don't contribute anything>Won't comment on the story because Ive never played the game through>world feels boring>There's no proper blockingwew lad
>>732247085>Skyrim had one nuanced and interesting quest line (the Civil War)And In My Time Of Need, and judging by how much discussion it still garners, the Paarthurnax dilemma.
>>732274364there was some other dev who left saying the company is just a generic soulless corporation now
>>732232061Divinity II is a game made in Gamebryo and have ladder climbing with fancy dismount animation.
>>732273871Maybe Elden Slop would be more your thing.
>>732229875>translation: “We’re too fucking lazy to learn how to work with new engines”
>>732273871>I wasn't into videogames when Skyrim was releasedYou know, I thought I was joking when I said you were 11.
>>732273525>Creation Enginedoesn't look like high IQ people worked on that one lmao
This is the usual sunk cost situation you get in companies when they make their own propriatery solution which sucks.They know it's bad, but they've already figured out how to use it and to get around it's weaknesses.So it costs them nothing to keep using it, expanding their spaghetti code when they need something in particular.In the long term you end up with an engine that's hopelessly behind the times, a company of people who don't know how to use anything else and nobody who knows how it actually works, because the people who coded it left and nothing is documented.Yea, it's going to cost time and money to adapt now, but you're just kicking the can down the road.
>>732273525Bethesda's shit is janky, but I agree that people don't know shit about vidya development and go too far. Like people using train heads from Fallout 3 as proof of shitty design as if they make a difference for that short non-interactable scene where they're used. Video games are all smoke and mirrors, you might as well complain that the ending slides in New Vegas are actually projected in an in-game room while your character is still there frozen and uncontrollable
>>732275104>In the long term you end up with an engine that's hopelessly behind the times, a company of people who don't know how to use anything else and nobody who knows how it actually works, because the people who coded it left and nothing is documented.You're making a lot of assumptions.
>>732229875Hmm idk, let me ask for a second opinion.Hey, Trainwiz! You're familiar with Bethesda's engine; what are your thoughts on it?
>>732275353>Like people using train heads from Fallout 3 as proof of shitty design>spent 15 years complaining about trainhead>no one knows abou the Jefferson monument elevator
In-house engines are actually good. The problem is that the pace of game development is unsustainable and labor is seen as replaceable, so all the accumulated knowledge walks out the door every 6 months when it's time for layoffs and restructuring.Having the whole industry manned by Unreal Engine drones allows for the work to be depersonalized. It's textbook alienation, in the Marxist sense.
>>732273323
>>732275586>Jefferson monument
>>732275780Better physics than the Mass Effect 1 car.
>>732275854Fine, Washington Monument. Who cares, I'm not american.
>>732270726My nigga MODS can remove most loading screens from Bethesda games with their surface level access, imagine what competent devs with access to the engine could do, it's literally entirely due to their incompetence
>>732275857No one shittalks the Mako on my watch.
>>732275780This is cool I wish starfield was a better game. If they kept it to like 10 detailed planets with a lot of unique locals and a story that’s wasn’t mind numbingly boring it would have been way better
>The benefits that you get from switching to Unreal Engine are probably not going to materialize until two titles down the roadVery likely true, but you'll actually be able to catch up with the rest of the fucking industry if you ditched Creation. So you won't have your goddamn persistent physics objects anymore, big fucking woop, every other open world game has outclassed you by now in every other way. Starfield is a technical fucking embarrassment with its insultingly simple procedurally generated planets and constant loading screens, NMS did this shit better at fucking launch. If Bethesda actually wants to put out new games that wow people and not just more Starfields, not more games that impress nobody and have zero impact on culture, they need to make the switch sooner or later.
>>732229875he's not necessarily wrong for once, but 1. they already butchered Gamebryo/Creation in Starfield and I don't think it'll be any better or more optimized in TES6, assuming they haven't slapped UE5 on top of it, and 2. holy shit I never want to see a Bruce Nesmith interview again, these faggot ass clickbait peddlers have been milking him to death for years just because he's the only Ex-Bethesda Veteran™ that replies to their emails, even though he never has anything interesting to say. He literally just embarrassed himself with his braindead comments on Morrowind not even a week ago, fucking Christ why won't these assclowns just let him quietly rot away in a retirement home already
>>732275104>their propriatery solution sucksBut it's the reason their games are still remember, modded and played daily for over 20 years to this very day?>in the long term you end up with an engine that's hopelessly behind the timesCE has been doing shit for decades other engines are barely capable of, like keeping track of object permanence or background NPC schedules save-wide across dozens of hours, or >>732270809.Why the hell are those that know the least about vidya the ones that talk the most about 'em.
>>732276209>but you'll actually be able to catch up with the rest of the fucking industrycatch up with what
>>732276045Mako a shit.
>>732276209>NMS did this shit better at fucking launch.Lmao.>games that impress nobody and have zero impact on culture,Lmao, they're games, not shakespeare.
>>732276209Like 10% of the issues people have with bethesda games can be blame on the engine the other 90% is bad game design. Like having NMS level of transitioning between planets and more random level generation would not make the game more fun or interesting. People need to be reminded that NMS fucking sucked dog shit at launch while having these things.
>>732276396>People need to be reminded that NMS fucking sucked dog shit at launchit still sucks lmao
>>732275997>not being American
>>732276209>you'll actually be able to catch up with the rest of the fucking industryThe rest of the industry hasn't even caught up with Morrowind, and Whiterun alone has more interactivity of mechanics than the entirety of Night City.
>>732276309Fucking Nintendo's making more impressive open world games than Bethesda now. Let's start with catching up with Nintendo.>>732276392>LmaoDoesn't make my statement false. Starfield's planets are dull as shit, very flat, much in the way of vertical breakup. they're generated with fucking 2D noise I think, the kind of shit Minecraft ditched decades ago.>>732276396I genuinely think the planets in Starfield were boring as shit because they weren't able to figure out how to make more interesting planets. You can't say it's because "muh realism" and "yeah it's a hard sci-fi game" when you gain literal magic space powers. Good tech IS important if you wanna make something cool and impressive, though I'll agree with you Bethesda has neither good tech nor good design ideas anymore.
>>732276723>Fucking Nintendo's making more impressive open world games than Bethesda nowlmaoGo collect your crystals tendie
>>732276209I think New Vegas is a fascinating game that showed us what Bethesda games could be like from a game design and writing perspective when handled by a competent team, it was rushed in 18 months, underfunded, and understaffed, and they still made one of the last great games ever, since nothing really more impressive came out in the 15 years since, and that was Obsidian's first time using the engine/framework I wonder if anything similar could happen from a technical side, if Bethesda allowed some tech wizard dev to make a game, would they be able to magically fix everything people hate about Bethesda games with just one dev cycle? No more feeling of walking through sludge, no more unresponsive mouse pointer, no more bullets that take seconds to reach their target, no more loading screens, actual ladders etc, it'd be fascinating if they got one-upped in that regard as well and exposed as complete hacks
A lot of the things (though not all) that people claim are bad about Bethesda’s engine are things fixed with mods, proving that it’s not an engine issue, it’s a game design issue.
>>732276797Can you show me anything as impressive as Ultrahand in any Bethesda game of the past ten years? Keep in mind I didn't even like Tears of the Kingdom, but I still find its tech very impressive.>>732276835Very much agreed, though I'm not a big fan of the shallow Bethesda Themepark Experience I do love New Vegas. Open world games have lost their novelty for me but a well written setting with some interesting choices and fun characters will keep me coming back. It's kind of a shame neither Bethesda nor Obsidian has ever made a game as good as it since.
>>732276396>NMS fucking sucked dog shit at launchYou fell for the engoodening marketing meme. The game is still the same and was somehow even more buggy when I played it last autum than it was at release.
>>732276209I know their struggle.It took me 15 years to move on more modern and far better software.
>>732276835I wish we could have gotten one more Fallout from Obsidian before all the key people left, but Bethesda's anal about NV's success to this day
>>732276998>Can you show me anything as impressive as Ultrahand ... I still find its tech very impressive.Dude, Garry's mod came out in 2006 and at least in that game your constructions wouldn't constantly respawn.How come Skyrim on the switch can remember thousands of item locations but totk can't save even one?
>>732276723>NintendoMetroid's empty desert everyone made fun of? lol, lmao even
>>732276209>but you'll actually be able to catch up with the rest of the fucking industryYes, pls catch up with the most recent UE5 slop, complete with stuttering, crashes, memory leak and the worst lighting ever made.Go play Stalker 2 if you want to see UE5 perform
>>732277601*despawn
>>732275586most elevators in games are fake and move the world around the player rather than the other way around. easier that way
>>732277652>stalker 2Didn’t that game literally struggle with object permanence and it’s the reason why they couldn’t include A-life. I remember playing that game killing some dudes, turning 360 and new guys would spawn
>>732276209>won't have your persistent physics objects anymore, big woopI hate fags who think this. Open-world games that have no/little physics for objects are a dime a dozen. Bethesda games are one of a kind in that regard.
>>732277601>Garry's modNice goal post moving, you literally removed a part of my post to make your argument. I also don't think you remember how finicky Garry's Mod's physics were but a lot of things were prone to spazzing out if you looked at them wrong, because it's made in the old Source Engine where you can't even put bottles in a crate without the whole thing shitting itself. TOTK doesn't have any of that shit and runs on a damn tablet.>How come Skyrim on the switch can remember thousands of item locations but totk can't save even oneBut it can, it just resets the world every so often for performance reasons. A lot of Bethesda games are prone to shitting their framerate and even corrupting saves on consoles because they have so much persistent shit to keep track of, which is what BOTW and TOTK are trying to avoid with that whole Blood Moon mechanic.>>732277864Persistent =/= physics.>>732277652You think Starfield is any better?
Most engines are newborns that haven't developed object permanence yet. If you move a cup (if you can) in most open worlds, and come back 5 hours later, the cup will spawn in its default location. Bethesda games are one of the few where the cup will remain exactly where you left it.
>>732278125>You think Starfield is any better?yes, by leaps and bounds
>>732278125>>You think Starfield is any better?its way better than stalker 2 but thats not a high barimagine being so fucking braindead you're defending a UEslop scam
>>732278223I agree Stalker 2 was a disaster but I don't think Starfield is any better at all. I guess it's more polished than a standard Bethesda release?
The problem with Starfield is that Bethesda designed a game that exacerbated their engine's weaknesses. CE has a lot of loading screens there's not doubt about that. The thing is, you didn't notice that problem too much because Skyrim's open world is one big cell. Meanwhile in Starfield, all the planets are separated by loading screens. There's no seamless travel.
>>732229875I'd rather have them use the engine where cars are impossible technology than Unreal Slop that makes anything and everything look and run like shit. It's the ultimate slop engine, even RPGMaker looks good compared to that jeetified piece of shit. Nowadays, the only palatable games come from companies that use their own, in-house engines.
>>732279170>where cars are impossible technologyhorses in oblivion are cares, sentry bots in fallout are cars, starfield has a drivable car
>>732229875I'd much prefer the bug macheen over the unreal tbqh
Say what you will about Starfield, but it ran better than most UE5 titles on my old card, and it's also by far, the least buggy GameBryo-tied Bethesda game.
>>732232240nigger fuck off starfields engine is so fucked you cant even mod in larger cities because they fucked everything by relying on floating points too much.
Creation isn't Gamebyro anymore then Unreal 5 is Unreal 1
>>732278125>it can, it just deletes the items because it can't ???
>>732284837You can drop a sword on the floor, save and load the save and it'll be there.
>>732252427Neat
>>732251069The first UE game was released in 1998, albeit.
>>732284881And yet it won't be there in half an hour, because it'd brick the Switch.
>>732284939Mate: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0MFmqmkq63c
>>732285017That's nice, now will Skyrim have a quiver with 241 arrows next to the Riverwood tree stump on hour 600 of my playthrough if I leave it there right after escaping Helgen?
>>732285312I'm gonna end the debate here because it's just gonna keep going on circles if you have nothing new to say. Feel free to pretend you have won the argument and brag to your internet friends how you owned a stranger on /v/.
>>732250198No. I suppose you love those big cities with 5 houses in Skyrim
>>732277797Meanwhile, the chad Creation Engine:https://youtu.be/SOE085-zYRM?t=3280
>>732285409>no argumentFigures.
>>732247050companies like amazon/microsoft have burned tens of millions of dollars over decades trying to build the same kinda momentum and failed.like it or not bethesda has lightning in a bottle - they know what works and if you try and "modernise" their process(for eg starfield) it falls apart.they might be able to capitalize on voice llms for automating voice reducing their gigantic overhead in terms of making voice actors record repetitive lines but that's pretty much it.modders have proved that the engine can be very beautiful and can be twisted into a pretzel to support all kindsa gameplay bethesda just optimises for the lowest denominator(until they need to re-release for a new platform/target audience)
>>732285876floating skeleton heads is the sort of thing TES games need but dont have
>>732277846>I remember playing that game killing some dudes, turning 360 and new guys would spawnThey kinda fixed it, but not really. You have a case where corpses will disappear if you turn around and walk 10 meters away from them, yet an indicator might still be there that there is a corpse there. Also, you still can have pops spawning right behind you, or even right in front of you, pops spawning in the anomalies, AI not working so you have pops going into anomalies, and lots fo corpses spawning when you approach a location because "dynamic factions and faction wars".UE5 is not the tool for the job if you want an open world game. And a game like Stalker would be better off on Dunia 3 engine, i am not even joking. Take Far Cry 3/4 (I recently replayed 4), slap radiation and anomalies into it, replace wildlife with mutants, remove towers, change that UI and you have a decent action Stalker. Hell, same can be done with swords&sorcery, just replace guns with spells.The only reason why industry flocked to UE5 is because its cheap, indians are a cheap labour force and there is a LOT of them, and there is a lot of documentation on how to work with basics for UE. They dont care about the game or game-making or art and design. They care about profit margins.
>>732286481>>UE5 is not the tool for the job if you want an open world gameThat's likely why Rockstar, Bethesda, EA, Nintendo and even fucking Ubisoft use in-house engines for their open world games. Only retards who have no talent left would consider using UE5 for an open world game, like CDPR was gonna stop using Red Engine and move to UE5 with the new Witcher game and I can't help but wonder why they needed to scare off all of their talent. TW4 is gonna be a disaster, no doubt.
>>732285312>Riverwood tree stumpall outdoor cells reset after I think 7 to 10 ingame days of not being visited by the player. 30 for dungeons. player homes, some containers in inns and stuff are the only real places that don't reset eventually. dead town npcs stay dead... you might be able to plant objects on an random town NPC and have them stay, not sure.
>>732285876Planescape Torment remake??
Actually they should downgrade back to Skyrim anniversary edition engine and incorporate all community additions and fixes to it.
>>732230445>Tekken/DBZ fan>Is an actual retard.Yep.>>732285541Now imagine it being that bad or even worse unless they cut out all the things that makes TES actually popular for open world games (interactivity, every object being an item, every interior being exploreable, every NPC having an actual and fully lootable inventory). Even to use as a graphics layer or whatever they did for the Oblivion Remaster that looks like shit. Everyone who actually likes UE4&5 is an actual retard distracted by shinny graphics and needs to be shot.
>>732288691That, and they can do so much more than that, like importing features from that gamejam event where they allowed devs to do whatever they wanted.>spears>mixing spells for different effects>actual horse combat>actual dragon mounted combatand other stuff like that.
Chris Avellone should've been allowed to make his Elder Scrolls spin-off. Imagine.
Can't I hate both?
People don't want to hear it but Starfield will be Bethesda's Arkham Knight.Terrible reception and many real problems, but the last thing that carried a spark of their former greatness. Soon the era of UE5 Bethesda will begin.
>>732293845He's been given Chud status so they'll never work with him agian.
>>732293934>Soon the era of UE5 Bethesda will begin.I highly doubt that besides the outsourced "remasters"
>>732293934lmaoAnon, the game was so ass that people that paid extra to pre-order it didn't even know the first expansion had come out. It was so ass the only reason it is ever brought up nowadays is either to shit on it or in reference to a total conversion Star Wars fan mod. If you were there when Knight came out, you'll know the biggest complaints about it were how it ran like shit and how overused the Batmobile was. If you were a City lore autist maybe you complained about some of the dropped plot points too like Harley's pregnancy or rushed conclusions like Hush. The other 80% of the game, though? It was genuinely good, and overall it aged like fairly good wine. Starfield has nothing. It's legacy is a bald dude complaining about pronouns and "[Medicine] Sarah... oh no no no no no no no...".It's ogre.
>>732229875It was a problem with Starfield for sure. You can't make a space game with such clunky piece of shit (space means vastness, loading screens are the opposite of it). But for Elder Scrolls, I think they can make it work. The upsides of modding outweigh any possible downsides.
>>732232448if the bullets feel slow they just need to increase the projectile speed
Don't you love how the actual parts of the game people play have to play like shit so some autists can go "I can picks ups le spoon! I can drop le spoon! FUN FUN"Like holy shit basic functions still just don't work because this minutiae has to be put in.
>>732293934>Terrible reception and many real problems, but the last thing that carried a spark of their former greatnessthat was skyrim lol, fo4 was ok, 76 bad, starfield bad tes6 will be shit
>>732296386>Fo4 was ok>Yes>Yes but Sarcastic>You must defend more settlements>MUH SON
>>732229875Bethesda has been significantly improving the Creation Engine after Starfield from what I've heard, even pulling in some people who worked on the Unreal Engine to help optimize theirsHonestly I have next to no faith in Bethesda at this point however, so I can only hope this means they can render more than 5 houses and 15 NPCs without their engine shitting itself
>>732232240>Starfield's engine looks and runs great
>>732232240>runs greatAkila City dropped frames like mad and it wasn't even that bigSo poorly optimized
>>732229973100%the next scrolls game will have all the same issues all of their older games have because they would rather add AI chatbots than fix the engines memory issues.
Jeets will never understand the aryan ideal that comes with picking up a spoon and putting it down. Their brains are too clouded with gallons of live-service slop and UE5 to take a walk through town, greet the townspeople and chop some wood while selling their rares for potions and food.Honest pay for honest work.
the mod tools for starfield (creation engine 2 in this case) is super fucking good compared to the last iterations (GECK and CE1) and you can do a lot of stuff way quicker and easier, you can generate a skyrim sized map in seconds while in the old tools that would take minutes, sadly the game is so shit that no one bothers to use it properly, the best thing that comes from it is the star wars genesis modpack
>>732293845why chris? most of the stuff he worked for was super bland or pretentious like ulysses, which is unironically his self insert OC lol.... john gonzalez was the man that wrote the whole new vegas plot + dlcs, he is the one that should work on the spin offs, but still, i feel bad about chris getting "canceled" because some slut was jealous and wanted attention, i hope one day he comes back for fallout again
>>732288691>>732293245Creation Engine 2 already has all of those features and it's way better optimized, it's only Slopfield that sucked ass because of the "multiple planets" terrain generation that tanked most of the performance.
>>732266260biggest modding community is for doom, not for a bethesda game>b-
>benefits that you get are probably not going to materialize until two titles down the road>admits that switching to unreal engine would be beneficial in time>inverting this means that sticking with gamebryo is, in the long run, a bad decision>advocates for making the bad decision because it's cheaper in the short runsmall men think small, news at 11
>>732299593That's also a reason why they stick to their engine. Their engine is perfectly tuned to the type of games they create; the scripting, the scheduling, the persistent object management, the modding tools they give to players, and so on. But it still has memory leak problems, perfomance issues though, and is managed by Bethesda so...
>>732300235It's clear that he was talking hypothetically. I don't believe most at Bethesda think an outside engine would be better suited for the types of games they develop than their own
>>732229875They need to stick to their own engine, yes.They also need to update/remake their fucking engine.They won't.
>>732299783>why chris?Because he's the best thing that happened to Obsidian, and the company crumbled the second he left. He had been there from the get go as well, and seemed to understand was development on the Gamebryo entailed.>most of the stuff he worked for was super bland or pretentious like ulysses, which is unironically his self insert OC lolIt is unironically not lol. Him being the only non-hostile NPC in the expansion makes people for some reason believe he's the mouthpiece for the developer, when for example nobody says that for Elijah even when both were written by Avellone and Ulysses intendedly comes across like a coping loser that uses you as a figurehead to blame all his past failings on.>John Gonzalez was the man that wrote the whole new vegas plot + dlcsIn what universe? Avellone was the one organizing Van Buren PnP sessions with the devs back when that game was in development, creating the basic mythos that evolved into NV. He wrote the basic factions and plot, characters like Cass or Lanius and was the lead director on the DLCs (with the one he had the least to do with, Honest Hearts, being the weakest one, and even then him saving some of Graham's dialogue which was gonna be cut not intentionally but due to other developers' incompetence).Gonzalez was a very good writer as well, creating Randall, writing House, co-writing Caesar with Sawyer, and his contribution should be praised as such. New Vegas would be a lesser game without his input. But to imply he was "the man that wrote the whole new vegas plot + dlcs" is just wrong.
>>732299593>you can generate a skyrim sized map in seconds while in the old tools that would take minutesOh no not minutes.
>>732229875What '90s space sci-fi IP should Bethesda have bought to be the creative base for Starfield instead of relying on emilshit?
>>732301076*like they could have made a Star Control branded Bethesda game I bet.
>>732247085This is also why Starfield is so shitty BECAUSE THERE ARE NO CONFLICTS IN THE GAME TO PICK A SIDE OVER.
>>732300739>He wrote the basic factions and plotThat was Gonzalez.But after Horizon Zero Dawn I wouldn't expect anything good from him.
>>732301251The reason why The Elder Scrolls is their most beloved franchise is because the lore is actually really well written. Whoever is the mind behind that has serious been carrying their reputation. We can only hope there's enough to work with there so that they can milk it for a decent story in TESVI
>>732229875Real talk, /v/ros. I'm not a contrarian, I don't care for an ideological reason. I know in my heart of hearts UE always looks plastic, the lighting looks like it's two generations ago, for whatever reason the u.i. is never as interesting to look at as even fucking Witcher 3 that came out a decade, and it never has deep weird mechanics.
I like the creation engine.All they need is better combat and significantly better design on how their systems work together into a cohesive whole.
>>732229875They already gave it a go with the Oblivion Remaster, it looked like shit and the game is already dead. I would have rather they remade Oblivion on Starfield's engine instead of whatever sloppa they did there
>>732299593>>732299943It's sad, if they'd restricted themselves to one or two star systems they might have made a really great game, but the "endless exploration!" meme really got to them. What can you do with 1000 planets that you can't do with 10? What's the point beyond useless busywork? Think about how excited people would have been if there were 10 Fallout 4 sized maps they could hop in and explore with hand-placed locations and quests instead of random proc-gen outpost #239 on planet #651. Though even that wouldn't compensate for the shittiness of the lore. Imagine if the Space Cowboys and Space America were in a cold war instead of perfect, ungrudging peace because everyone's happy and good and nothing is wrong and nobody wants the status quo to change. The whole fucking point of every Bethesda game, and New Vegas, is how you, the player can change the world, you are the single most important individual in each game (debatable on Oblivion), yet what is there in Starfield that you can change? What is there that's going to be different for npcs and factions had you made another choice? And they completely wasted the way to show this most with NG+. The fucking NPCs are still immortal for godssake, it's a game that has a literal in-universe reset button and everyone is still fucking essential. Boggles the mind.
>>732234817This. I was baffled when the Witcher 3 was being compared to it, outside of being medieval fantasy they were nothing alike
>>732301463Even by the time of Skyrim they were 90% running on pure legacy of '90s nerds that laid the groundwork on the IP. The only reason these companies don't keep buying up cult '90s IP like Bethesda did with Fallout is arrogance and territorialism.
>>732302314They should have bought star sector and used it to replace all the space combat parts
>>732229973I would say the biggest problem is the incompetent writersPeople will overlook a lot of flaws if the writing is good (e.g. VTMB) or even just "good enough" (e.g. Morrowind, most of Oblivion)Note that "writing" includes worldbuilding and characters, not just the plotlinesSkyrim and Fallout 4 were shit not just because of any technical issues (though there were certainly plenty) but because the writing was atrocious. Skyrim certainly has its defenders but oddly enough they never defend the writing - and Fallout 4's writing was even worse.
>>732302314>just make 10x the content of your last gamebrilliant, but you forgot to say to also make the game cheaper and develop it faster.
I wonder how much it would have cost Bethesda to buy the Starflight or Star Control IP to make Starfield with? I wonder if they even thought of it. Starfield is so completely desolate in terms of imagination it would have made the game massively better right off the bat. But I get the feeling corporations would much rather have dead IP than let someone else make money off it because it makes the managers involved look bad that they had left a field fallow for so long.
>>732232057When they actually start to use the engine and not tone everything down to run at 2 gen old consoles. If the engine was the issue you wouldn’t be able to mod the games to an extent they’ve been modded.
>>732300510of course they don't, it's called hubris, and it happens with almost every developer who has their own in-house engine. look at capcom with REengine. that shitfuck of an engine caused nothing but issues for DD2 and MHWilds because that engine is purpose built for tiny, compartmentalized level design, not large sprawling worlds with dozens of NPCs wandering about. And they chose REengine for those instead of just using the tried and true unity or UE because of corporate chest beating and face saving. To develop a game on a third party engine is to admit defeat and admit that the thing you spent so much time and money on is WORSE than the generic product that the rest of the industry gets by with. that is the EXACT same scenario playing out at bethesda. the fact of the matter is, they don't give 2 fucks because they like that their games are simple to design. they're not taking the pokemon approach to game development. shit's gonna sell no matter what on brand recognition alone, that's why garbage like fallout 76 and even starfield are still played to this day, retards playing it JUST because it's made by those guys who made good games over a decade ago.
