Why have games not surpassed this format when it comes to the feeling of adventure?I never even played a classic JRPG until I was ~20 so I have no nostalgic attachment to them, yet I still feel more excited about finding an old JRPG I haven't played than any new games promising adventure, the old JRPGs still somehow make me feel like a kid embarking into a storybook
Because JRPGs let you turn your brain off
>>732276491Games went 3d a loooooooong time ago.
>>732276650I wouldn't call ER the game equivalent of an adventure storybook, it's more like the Bible
Is that DQVI? Is it good? I played the DQ games up to 5, but I heard the fan translation for 6 was pretty rough
>>732276743Just play the DS version, the translation is by the same people who did Dragon Quest 8's translation.
>>732276491>posts the literal worse JRPG on its console
>>732276850I thought about it but I hate 3d art style of the DS remakes and the music just sounds like shitty MIDIs to me
>>732276491My guess is that they have just the right amount of detail. In towns you can slow down and explore as closely as you want. You can go into every building and talk to every NPC, which is pretty rare in modern games.Then in the world map, traveling between locations is highly abstracted, and reaching a new place takes just a couple of minutes. The world map is usually the whole world in the story, sometimes even several of them.Modern games often replace this with uneventful travel time, which sometimes takes most of the game. A worldwide scope has become very rare.And even when a modern game is close to a 16-bit game in design, like Dragon Quest XI, you still "waste" time by rotating the camera around in rather large environments. Although I haven't played the retro mode in XIS, it probably is pretty close to a classic RPG
I think the simple graphic forces your imagination to do the heavy lifting, which in turns makes everything you see seem more grand than it actually is. Also the vibrant colour palette is definitely a big help, can't really get a feeling of grand adventure from brown and orange.
>>732277565The perspective also helps. If you're playing a modern open world game, your camera is right there next to your character, which means you experience the world exactly as the MC does and those huge giant modern open worlds feel paradoxically small since they're inevitably not actual adventure-sized
>>732276491There's something that's lacking in modern development and it's mostly limited by modern production costs, fidelity expectations, and design paradigms.The classics have scale and wonder behind them that can't be achieved today. The game gradually scales up. You start in small areas and your world continues to grow, you explore and get new tools that unfold more of these worlds whether it's a boat, an airship, tools that get you through more obstacles. Your progression and discovery of the world is carefully curated to provide impact, even when you get the boat and the world opens in a big way you still see all these places you can't go without something else. The world is full of empty expanses, but it's okay because the gameplay is just random encounters that spawn in anywhere on world map. It retains it's feeling of emptiness without being too empty, doesn't turn into an amusement park.Modern games just can't do this. First an issue of scale, they can't make a world feel as big. The graphics and the budget and the performance of the software stop them. Then we have open world design, and moving towards action based combats instead of random encounter instances. Now they have to craft encounters for each of these open areas. You end up with Dragons Dogma 2 with the same enemies in the same places everywhere, a game with only 2 cities and 3 towns. Or FFXV, imagine seeing that open world demo of the game, and then the actual game comes out and only the first part of the game has is own open map(the one in the demo) and the rest of the game is super linear?and then there's the western design philosophy, that the player should be able to go anywhere they want from the start, they're missing the part where they gradually scale the world up. They just throw you in and expect you to go anywhere and the adventure never scales. You go to both Riften and Solitude on opposite ends of the map, it's an impressive world but never something you need to work up to
>>732276491Metroidvanias do it better.
>>732276743The fan translations are fine. Plus, the original version is the only one that let's you tame monsters like you could in DQV. The DS version only has a set few recruitable monsters.
>>732276491jrpgs were great in the snes erait was the jump to 3d and the subsequential "weebing out" of jrpgs that made them shitty
>>732277565>>732277667I think it has more to do with design and scale of the production.Skies of Arcadia managed a global world scale and design principles of 2D classics but in 3D, on the Dreamcast/Gamecube.The only reason they don't make a game like that now, they don't want to. They want to make a game that's pretty to wow shareholders.
smaller games are able to be more deliberate, so their world feels fuller, more developed and with more adventure to be had. bigger games stretch their development out and things aren't as condensed, and you are also accustomed to them largely being empty. Fable 1, despite what many anons will tell you, has a very good adventure feel to it. Around Fallout 3 is when that started to die out, because games got too big. For whatever reasons gamers started to see mapssize as a factor in the value of the game, so now we have shit like Breath of the Wild and Palworld, where size was everything. But it sucks. Older games are smaller because they had to be, so they focused more on what they had.Growers are better than showers
Old RPGs, not just JRPGs, felt like adventures because you kept moving forward. You weren't bogged down by side quests and distractions. You had a goal the characters tried to stick with. If there was a side task, it was a problem unique to that area with it's own small narrative. Not some mindless slop like 15 gobobearbandits and picking some flowers.
>>732276650So ugly
>>732278628this is a fact, at certain point sidequests just became some thing you did for 500 gold and an elixir instead of something you did because it was interesting and unlocked something. It leads to situations where obviously I skipped all the meaningless sidequests in Xenoblade 1 and never even got all the monado powers, only finding out the last one was from doing chains upon chains of sidequests, fuck I fucking hate Monolith Soft they have the most dogshit sidequests.
DQ1 remake on the gameboy color was pretty fun.Should I play DQ2? Heard it's quite a downgrade from the first one
>>732276491DQ VI is at its best when a person describes it vaguely to you. The actual game is shit.
>>732276491There's no defining arpg. The whole genre is peng, bow, vroom. These games are usually very bad. The jrpgs you are referencing have plenty of limitations, so it's easy to fill the gaps with fantasy. Even the original ff director said so, ff only works with chibi designs.
>>732276491>>732277490>>732277565Modern games dont appreciate how old graphics partially served as an abstraction that leaves space for the imagination to embellish the fantasy more than any developer can. When every object and every empty space is rendered in exact and garish detail it kills any sense of intrigue or wonder for anyone but the most unimaginative golems for whom the modern movie game was made for. Older JRPGs still had a diorama or theater stage look to them.
>>732276491Abstraction. What you're feeling is abstraction. Newer games tend to disregard its value.
>>732278937Xenoblade's sidequests are fine. You disregarding everything it labeled as a "sidequest" because you assumed they'd be meaningless garbage for some reason was a you problem.>but I object to doing things that don't directly relate to the main questSorry, whatever mental illness causes this isn't something devs have to account for.
>>732284647The left one looks better, like a stylized painting, right is just generic 3d rendering
>higher up place overlooking lower placeis this all that's needed to strike a feeling of adventure
>>732285801more or less
>>732284647Left: Pleasent colors. Easy on the eyes. Focal point with the village in the background. Simple but detailed. You could say every tile was hand placed.Right: Looks like a random photo of a mountain range. No focal point, dull. Techincally detailed, but no highlight, so everything drowns in itself. Mountains are probably randomly generated.To be fair, right focuses more on the characters. And if you play it on a good decently sized TV, I have no doubt that the scene would actually create a nice scene, paired with music. So the comparison is crooked. Left, through it's simplicity is not able to loose that much impact.
>>732286068Ys I & II made great use of scenery and perspective.
>>732279853I just went through the snes fan translated versions of 1 and 2, and I'd say it depends. Its basically an expansion of the first game in every way, with a world map thats about 3x as big. I liked it a lot, and there were a couple moments that were genuinely memorable. I'd say the only real downside is that the backtracking can be rough (especially without emulator fast forwarding). Apparently the newer versions let you teleport to any town with the return spell, and that alone will probably save you 1/2 your play time.
>>732287084Yeah 3DS lets you ruura into any visited town
>>732286874>To be fair, right focuses more on the characters. And if you play it on a good decently sized TV, I have no doubt that the scene would actually create a nice scene, paired with music. So the comparison is crooked. Left, through it's simplicity is not able to loose that much impact.That's true but it could still be a more inspiring scene, it feels like the tonal goal of the scene was "realistic" when even real life itself can be a bit meh when not seen in person, so artists take it upon themselves to exaggerate things and add their own impression to convey that feeling across mediums I'd expect the FF7R scene in a nature documentary, not an epic fantasy quest
>>732277035>shit opinion>illiteratepottery
>>732287895Disliking DQVI is hardly a shit opinion
>>732284647I think people have just collectively fucking lost it and don't even remember what a hopeful adventure spirit looks or feels likeSomeone post what the scene on the left looks like in the remake
>>732284647>>732291026
>>732291421fucking depressing
>>732276491because it lets developers abstract away mechanics and maps which would probably take an entire game's worth of development to flesh out
>>732291527Soulless bug people will defend it
>>732291421what games?
>>732292316Star Ocean
>>732292567damn, I heard the remake was goodWas that a lie?
>>732276743>>732277971To my knowledge the translation of the SNES version of 6 was never completed. There's still untranslated text in game. Unless someone finished the job within the last couple of years?
>>732291421The internet has been a blight on the human soul
>>732288659it's not my favorite game either, but calling it the worst (excuse me, "worse") SNES JRPG really outs someone as a filtered pleb
>>732294682Anons are weird like that, if it's not first, it's last! Then when discussing things in those games, if it's not #1 meta pick, it's SHIT SHIT SHIT.
>>732294941>if it's not first, it's last!Yes.
>>732294682>>732294941I don't disagree but what is the worst SNES JRPG? Gdleen?
>>732295017some untranslated kusoge you've never heard of
>>732293124I played the fan translation back before the DS version existed. I remember there being some problems with shop menus but that's it. That was decades ago now, so I have to assume there's something better than what I played by now.
>>732295008Hey man, just because you're in last place in everything doesn't mean you have to try and drag every other competitor down to your level, that's just lashing out. Just work on yourself, okay, honey?
>>732295398Cope
>>732295327I recall more being untranslated. Like some dialogue between the Hero's sister and some other fuck when you go back to the starting village late in the game.
>>732276743>>732293124>>732295327>>732295469The SNES translation is perfectly fine. The last patch version is v0.90. It's just one of those games in which a project was started and made considerable progress, but stalled out close to the finish line. There IS a guy who is trying to resume the project, but in 2+ years he has managed to do absolutely fuck-all.The game is playable to the end, but you'll find NPCs here and there that just spout out script pointers instead of dialogue. Most if not all of those NPCs are not essential to understanding the story or figuring out where to go.Crashes can be managed. Here's what to look out for:>Info-All can crash the game.>The Forget spell can crash the game.>When using the Equip menu, backing out can crash the game. Always move ahead with the entire process when using that menu, or just equip through the inventory.It's worth noting that these aren't sure crashes, but you probably shouldn't take chances. Savestates are essential.Another issue that's not crash related:>Certain events can cause all unequipped items to be sent to the bag. Check your inventory after events so you don't get screwed over.
>>732291704Unfair, Dd2 is rather on the right hand side. If the devs would get dark Fantasy right, it'll be great, they never do thoughever.>>732291421Took me a second to realize they are showing the same area.
>>732284647Lhs is xenoblade? Thought played all pixel jrpg.
>>732297298Closing the beginning is basically a must?
>>732276491>embarking into a storybookA shitty storybook. The writing in JRPG's is universally bad.I love the genre, because of other reasons, but the writing in them is almost always crap.
>>732276743The fan translation for 6 is good. Certainly better than any official DQ translation that's for sure.
>>732297298
>>732297298You have this in reverse. Theme park refers to instancing where you travel to X location to engage in a heavily scripted on rails activity. Making the open world aspect superfluous window dressing that may as well not even exist because all you do is fast travel anyways, or if its not available inevitably gets patched or modded in to appease preddit QoL fags. Personally I want a new game that's like daggerfall all in on procgen so I can just larp as a humble goblin slayer doing radiant quests to kill them for procgen loot all day chasing god rolls. Fuck your chosen one save the world storylines.
>>732284647I wonder if this is the result of real-world inspiration vs derivative media. Left was made by someone who's actually hiked up a small mountain and seen the view, right was designed by someone who's heard of the outdoors and has a rough idea of what it's supposed to look like but can't abstract it in the way that artists can to bring out the idea of it. They can present what it looks like, but not what it feels like.
>>732283567>>732277565I've been thinking more about how 2d lets a game have a theater feel to it.Even if it's supposed to be played straight like off, there is still a level of symbolism for what is actually happening.And in action games there's the arcade version of battletoads where you kick the first boss into the foreground and you get a good look at him being pissed off, like he's standing with the audience. That wouldn't work well in 3d games without changing the angle of the camera.
>>732284647Outsourcing visuals to the third world was a mistake
