>check Lord of the Rings>Tolkien's Magnum Opus>Fantasy is divided between BEFORE and AFTER TOLKIEN>the "apex predator" are dysgenic leper-cancerous "corruptions" with semitic features (orcs, trolls, goblins, etc) with no actual predator features (no strong jaw, no sharp teeth, no long claws, etc)>despite Tolkien love semites (his god was one) >because he's christian, there is no evolution just devolution, ex:>"Elves fading, humans becoming more corrupt">according to Tolkien himself, all this devolution is Ilúvatar's perfect plan to "improve" his Creation Tolkien killed Fantasy, unironically. George R.R. Martin, Peter Jackson, Netflix and Amazon just killed its zombified version. Perhaps, in the future, after all this cultural decay finally dies, we will see a purified Fatansy that embraces the cold sharpness of constant warfare / biological evolution, the PRIMORDIAL TRUTH, like Robert E. Howard materialised in Conan.
Man, you wrote a lot of garbage there.
>>732311112Try elden ring bronyOP
Tolkien mentioned multiple times in the forewords in his book that orcs weren't leaning on any real world demographic and that he's tired of retards interpreting that into his books when they're meant to be escapist fantasies, not references to the real world. Coincidentally I am also tired of it. Retarded faggot
it is what it is. take it or leave it.
>>732311112>we will see a purified Fatansy that embraces the cold sharpness of constant warfare / biological evolution, the PRIMORDIAL TRUTH, like Robert E. Howard materialised in ConanThat sounds gay as fuck, even gayer than shit like Critical Role. You must be a 40k fan.
>Missing the point this hardBrainrot is very real
>>732311184That might be too high brow for the op the themes would filter the hell out of him and upset him more.
>Fantasy is lameHere's how to fix it.Add sexy monsters, male and female.It's that easy to make the best fantasy setting ever.
>>732311334fucking gay, add just the hot female ones and remember that 90% of the world still kills faggots
>>732311112retards like you shouln't be allowed to voice their retarded opinions anywhere
>>732311232you didnt read conan. people are always fighting in conan because it's a barbaric age that constantly has any and all civilisation collapse because the writer keeps trying to push the "civilisation bad and makes you weak" narrative. It's a world that literally can't stop being barbaric because the writer wont let it
>>732312123You know the writer died like 95 years ago right?
gee mo-netti
>>732312257You new to dragonirian threads? He'll spam this topic for months bro. Looks like he moved on from his adventure vibes template.
>>732311112>>Fantasy is divided between BEFORE and AFTER TOLKIENTolkien inspired people to take fantasy races seriously and give them nations, cultures, etc. Before that they were just silly plot devices.>>the "apex predator" areDragons?>dysgenic leper-cancerous "corruptions" with semitic features (orcs, trolls, goblins, etc)Anon, they're Asians. This is old news, how did you not know? They're inspired by the Mongols, Huns and so on.>no sharp teethOrcs do in fact have sharp teeth, but the point of them isn't that they're dangerous because they've evolved to prey on humans or something, they're dangerous because they're evil. It isn't known exactly where they come from, but I've never seen it said anywhere that they have women and children. They are violent, craven assholes. If they had something natural and good about them at some point, it no longer exists.>>because he's christian, there is no evolution just devolutionIt doesn't surprise me that you have no idea what evolution is.>>"Elves fading, humans becoming more corrupt"Middle Earth is Western Europe. It's not a fictional world inspired by Western Europe, it's LITERALLY Western Europe in the far flung past through the lens of myth and romance. Of course elves can't be around anymore - do you see them around right now?How is this video games?
>>732312494You might not get whats really going on.
we need more wizard/magician protags in fantasy games
>>732311112>Fantasy is lameYou just have no ability for imagination. Conan is fantasy and people loved/love it. Also if Tolkein killed Fantasy, then James Cameron killed science fiction.>>732312302>You newnah, in fact i barely use this site anymore. i know there are people that literally live on this board and site. i just wanted others here to know what i see. I actually came along to see what the overwatch news was without going to plebbit or some shill "gaming" news site.
>>732312781sorry didn't mean to trigger you.
https://youtu.be/qlhFm4-On1U?si=x2YbZh0wT-9MnJW9
>>732311112>read lord of the rings>thinks orcs are apex predators pretty fucking obvious you didn't actually read it, orcs are weak, cowardly, only survive in great numbers, they don't represent something primal, Sauron's Orcs represent industrial warfare
>>732311112>apex predatorOrcs aren't even the apex humanoid
>>732311201He lied, he called them "Easterlings" ffs.
>>732313137...you mean in universe, they called the peoples who came from the east geographically easterlings? This must be a reference to real world politics, you're right
>>732313313why are the ones from the east called easterlings but the ones from the west are called Men of Westernese? Try to answer that without stumbling over what we all know you'll stumble over.
>>732312123>It's a world that literally can't stop being barbaric because the writer wont let itNot to defend the retard you're replying to but Conan is supposed to be set in ice age northern Africa and have lost civilizations too old to be found by archeology other than shit like the beaker people being travelers and spreading knowledge post-ice age. Yes there's magic and shit too but all that's also supposed to be fading and getting lost. The point is given that setting he has a good reason for no major civilization lasting since them having cities and ironworking is already part of the fantasy
>>732313731It takes place in our actual world so none of these cultures could exist longterm anyway since they don't exist now.
Why does nu /v/ seem to really hate Tolkien now?
>>732313464>why are the ones from the east called easterlings but the ones from the west are called Men of Westernese?Who came up with those names in universe, anon? Think deeply.
>>732313875Bilbo since its a transliteration of the red book of westmarch.
>>732313852because he's responsible for the inoriginal vaguely-western-european-fantasy-inspired-by-tolkien-and-dnd genre
>>732313852Its 1 lolcows hot button issue because elden ring filtered the fuck out of him.
>>732314247Perhaps he should enjoy some nice comforting Baldur's Gate 3
>>732314329He'd probably hate that game
>>732313852It doesn't, we have regular Tolkien threads here that are largely positive. OP is just a turbosperg.
>>732311112Shit I dont know nigga, swallow a pack of AAA batteries and down them with a healthy glass of bleach or whatever
>>732311112You sound like an even bigger faggot than Christopher and his entire shtick was whining and mooching off his dad's legacy.
>>732311112>38 posts in>Not a single Grond postYou have all failed
>>732311112>dude I hate fantasy so I'll just read one of the most popular fantasy novel to date>wtf is this shit?! fantasy is dead!
>>732314582/tv/ is the uruk board, /v/alinor isn't like that.
>>732313464You think easterlings call themselves that?
>>732314621No, anon asked who called them that and I said bilbo since its a transliteration of a book he was writing.Have you read Lord of the Rings?
>>732312831you are mistaken if you think i've been rattled. im not some ADD broccoli-haired softie
>>732314717Glad you calmed down, didn't expect it to take you 40 minutes to decompress but here we are. Again, sorry for triggering you.
>>732312781>James Cameron killed science fiction.well he contributed to the genre getting enshittified, yes
>>732313464They call themselves "Harad"The people west of them call them Easterlings because they have no contact with them beyond being invaded. In universe the Easterlings are mostly representative of early medieval nomads invading Europe. The Avars were the explicit model.The movies made them explicitly Turkish, because lo and behold yet another eastern culture belligerent to Europe throughout history. Now I'll wait while you tell me how chuddy history is.
>>732312613shame the remake sucked so fucking hard
>>732314764>didn't expect it to take you 40 minutes to decompressI mentioned earlier that people live on this board, I said such because I don't. im not sitting here with an auto update going on. >>732313852it's a bored zoomer/autist. don't take it to heart, anon. if they wanted a real discussion they wouldn't be here.
>>732314980>The people west of them call them EasterlingsOnly Bilbo did this.
>>732311112>Fantasy is lamehttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F_iw6Exlom0
>>732311112>Fantasy is lameur lame lol lmao
>>732314965>genre getting enshittified, yesi kinda agree. i was actually gonna say George Lucas but people here aren't nowhere near old enough to know what was going on in the 1970s.
>>732311112>>because he's christian, there is no evolution just devolution, ex:this is an indo-european motif. Tolkien got it from norse paganism, which he was a big fan of.
>>732315101the OG anime was also bad desu, at least it looked goodthe last few episodes of season 2 were a pleasanf surprise
>>732315306Norse paganism hasnt existed for years now since the Christians edited or burned most of it. What Tolkien loved was a heavily bastardized version, the original lost to time forever, unless some Scandinavian buried texts in some hidden tomb.
>>732315426wew lad
>>732315426the codex regius is a substantially authentic recordation of prechristian, pagan poetry and beliefs, and we know this for a number of reasons that I can elborate on when you inevitably insist (based on nothing) that it's actually christian fanfiction.
>>732315218i'm neutral about star wars because i appreciate how old school it feels, even thought the fans will not realise rhisthat said star wars contributed to killing sci fi so
>>732312494>It isn't known exactly where they come fromSauramon mentioned to the newborn urukhai that orcs or as they used to be called, goblins came from elves who were corrupted.
>>732315552>>732315426only troons and chuds care about how authentic muh fantasy is to heccin' ancient mythology inspirinosreal writers bonk themselves on the head and write down the things they hallucinated
>>732315565star wars couldn't have killed sci fi, because star wars isn't sci fi itself. It's medieval fantasy with lasers instead of bows and swords
>>732313137Only humans are called Easterlings. A lot of orcs come from east of Gondor, Arnor, Elves and Hobbits because they come from Mordor, but then there are huge numbers of orcs from the "North" near Gundabad and from the Misty Mountains. These places are west of the Men from Dale and Elves from Lothlorien and Mirkwood.>>732314980No they don't. There's no info on what the Haradrim language is like or what they called themselves."Harad" is Sindaran for "south", Gondorians call that region Harad and the people "Haradrim" which means "South people" in an the elven language Gondorians still speak.Also Haradrim are not Easterlings, obviously. They're identified by men of the west as different types based upon appearance but also the direction they came to Gondor from: Easterlings attacked Dale & Erebor, whilst also moving from north of Mordor southwards towards Gondor.Haradrim just moved northwards towards Gondor.>In universe the Easterlings are mostly representative of early medieval nomads invading Europe. The Avars were the explicit model.This is only very vaguely true, but only because there's so little information on the Easterlings so isn't UNTRUE. It's all too speculative to say authoritatively who they represent.
>>732315640Tolkien also overtly states this in most forwards.
Exact same thread yet again by the guy who doesn't actually care about fantasy or talking about Lord of the Rings, but rather just wants to complain about a religion he hates.Get a life you autistic bitch.
>>732311112>>the "apex predator" are dysgenic leper-cancerous "corruptions" with semitic features (orcs, trolls, goblins, etc) with no actual predator features (no strong jaw, no sharp teeth, no long claws, etc)>missing the point of a children's book this hardThe advantage of the orcs is spelled out pretty cleanly.
>>732315757Forgot the image award
>>732315752Anons seem to know how to gape his anus since its a repeat of a repeat.
>>732313313He literally had "variags" in his books and they were aligned with Sauron. Faggots that jerk off Tolkien need to get a clue. It was a typical west vs east drivel dressed up with linguistic autism.
What's the vidya equivalent?
>>732315681the mythological traditions of the world are all generally far superior to fantasy works by individual authors, and as such it's no surprise that the best fantasy works are generally the ones that cleave the closest to real world mythological traditions (see: LotR)Making up crap based on pure authorial whimsy and blindly copying things from other shitty fantasy IPs is what gives us garbage like isekai anime.
why does no fantasy game take inspiration from 20th century art tho
Generic fantasy is top 3 settings and i never get tired of it. More please.
>>732315973Scorn, Tormentum: Dark Sorrow, and Bleak Faith take inspiration from Beksinski and Geiger.
>>732311112>the "apex predator" are dysgenic leper-cancerous "corruptions" with semitic features (orcs, trolls, goblins, etc.even if that were true goblins and orcs are the same thing. in canon, "goblin" was just the old word for them during Bilbo's time but by the time of the Lord of the Rings, the word has switched to "orc". in reality though, tolkein hates the french and so he didn't want to use a french word for one of his creatures.
>>732315949reddit midwit NPC response, imagine being so incapable of imagination you have to steal the works of babbling cavemen from the bronze age(inb4 people didn't live in caves during the bronze age)
His whaleroads autism is something to behold.
>>732315928Me breaking a siege in Mountain Blade with my 600+ cav army
>>732316105People didn't live in caves during the bronze age. Bronze age was incredibly advanced, culturally very similar to ours as their world too was globalist and strongly depended on trade and imports from neighbouring countries.
>>732316197Based
>>732316105there's no new ideas to come up with in terms of creating an engaging story. The question is not whether or not to steal ideas from your ancestors. The question is whether you will steal ideas from your ancestors directly, or whether you will steal the ideas of your ancestors that have been laundered by a bunch of gay fantasy authors, who laundered it from other gay fantasy authors, who laundered it from slightly less gay fantasy authors, who stole it from your ancestors.
>>732311112>despite Tolkien love semites (his god was one)Tolkien was pagan.
>>732316216>People didn't live in caves during the bronze age. Bronze age was incredibly advanced, culturally very similar to ours as their world too was globalist and strongly depended on trade and imports from neighbouring countries.
>>732316307Kill yourself, nigger.
>>732316301His books exist to glorify God with a capital G and he helped convert a few other authors to Christianity. Neopagans are sad people.
>>732316294or you can take inspiration from everything, not restrained to literature or artinstead of copypasting 3000 year old slopone does not need to restrict himselves by pandering to accuracyor take LSD, most mythology was hallucinated by shamans on drugs anyways
>>732316363>my jew on a stick will save me
>pictured: women explaining how it feels when they walk down the street wearing miniskirts in a p*triarchial chud society (nobody told them to wear miniskirts btw)
>>732311112George Martin debunked tolkien decades ago
>>732316363Don't trigger the redditor trying to fit in please.
>>732316541Artist name?
>>732316606Making his magnum opus work about a ring is a good way to atone for childish errors of yesteryear. In the end he gave his flowers to the master of the craft.
>>732313940So what is the question? Why did Bilbo give the enemies of the people he was with a foreignizized name? If it needs to be spelled out, they're called the Easterlings by the Men of Westernesse because one of the men of westernesse came up with that fucking word. If you read deeper they have different names they give themselves obviously. I just hate this retarded angle where supposedly tolkien was trying to make a political statement. People kept asking him this when he was alive too and he went on record many times consistently denying it. He said his work is inspired by real life only insofar as imagination is limtied by what someone has known from his life.
>>732316476>or you can take inspiration from everything, not restrained to literature or artyou'll do that anyway. Why involve the unnecessary middleman of schlock fantasy writings that have become accidental pastiches of the things they're unwittingly based onHow many shitass isekai authors or litRPG authors could tell you that the treasure-loving dragon trope comes from Nibelungenlied? Not a lot. To be ignorant of the things you yourself decided to depict is a kind of retarded close-mindedness that can only produce fantasy catgirl harem webnovels forever
>>732316710Bilbo didn't give them a foreignized name, that is their anglicized name. Bilbo's real name is Bilba Labingi anon, you did know that right? You do understand the narrative conceit of the lord of the rings right?
>>732316216>Incredibly advancedCompared to what exactly? the neolithic period?>GlobalistIncredibly basic form of globalism I suppose. This is like saying that the Pueblo people were globalist.>CulturallyNot at all. The norm back then were patron Gods that embodied an entire citystate and were responsible for material phenomenon but were deemed stronger or weaker depending on the citystate's actions. Plus most of their understanding of the world came from mysticism. ie, wind exist because some big fat bitch in the sky was knocked up by the king of fire and he came really hard into her mouth and she was forced to puke into a pile of dirt. If the code of hammurabi is anything to go by, their laws would seem absurd to anyone today and were just on the whim of whatever jackass was in charge. "If someone is accused of sorcery, they must leap into the river. If they drown, they are guilty and the accuser gets their house. If they survive, the accuser is executed for false witness.
the TRVTH is that before tolkien artists would just use their imaginations and take inspirations from anything to freely construct a world where bizzare things happenedafter tolkier it was about heccin' realism and historical accuracy>>732316814funny you say that when isekai are tolkien clones when you track their lineage
>>732316924poor brony
>>732316924>funny you say that when isekai are tolkien clones when you track their lineageyeah, that's the problem. Fantasy as a genre is totally incestuous because it's ironically (in spite of the name) being written by incurious and unimaginative people. A good work is something that pulls from a plethora of sources, which is what Tolkien did. A bad work sees something another guy did and says "uhhhh I'm gunna do that, too... but I'm also gonna have big boobs, and rpg stat breakdowns for all my characters at the end of each chapter like in muh bideo james."
the tolkienoid is incapable of imagining kino like picrel
>>732316703alex andreev
>>732311112Howard is kino
>>732315741Not in my edition and that line from the movie is not from any book published in Tolkien's lifetime, aka he didn't want it published because he explicitly didn't like the idea.>>732315851I don't think I even understand your complaint. Are you a retarded russian, is that it?
>>732317354I've got a copy of the Silmarillion from the 70s that has the foreword.
>>732317420He talks about it at length in the Letters as well.
>>732311201Tolkien says a lot of stuff because he was a grumpy old fart. In today's terms we'd call him a tsundere, or perhaps even a tsuntsunhe also claims to hate allegory and then proceeded to write clearly allegorical stories about WW1, Christianity, and the atom bomb.
>>732311112>seething about ChristiansDon't you have some pedos to defend on /pol/?>>732316301
Tolkien went back and forth on the origin of orcs, and hadn't settled on a definitive answer prior to his death. His latest letters on the topic show that he no longer liked the idea that orcs were corrupted elves, likely due to their overly high number and lack of comparable ability displayed. That contrasts with earlier writings in which he declares that Morgoth cannot create, but only corrupt, and that all evil he molds was once something other.
>>732317178Thanks!
>>732317842Grok, pull up the percentage of priests who are child rapists.
>>732311112Lurtz > Meatman > Legman > Mr Potatohead
>>732317420So when you said he "overtly states" orcs came from elves, you actually meant to say "suggests" ? Because the origin of the orcs is not overt in the Silmarillion, it's ambiguous.Also he didn't write or publish the Silmarillion, it's the notes and manuscripts edited and rewritten by Christopher.Also also in the letters what he does 'overtly state' is that orcs did NOT come from elves, it was an idea he thought of but then rejected because he hated it which is why there isn't an official origin for orcs in anything published by Tolkien, and also why Christopher ended up saying he regretted including that suggestion in the Silmarillion because it's so clearly rejected by his dad.I don't get why this keeps being repeated when there's so much information available today that Tolkien hated the idea orcs came from elves.
>>732318065He could have just said melkor created them in his first measure. It would even give a good reason why Aule was spared by Eru and then all the bad guys of the canon that aren't Melkor end up being maiar of Aule.
>>732318269No, I meant overtly states. He gives the name of the place they were secreted away to and even states in between which of the great dagoths it occurred in.
Give me some good dark fantasy series/authors, /v/. Already familiar with Gene Wolf.
>>732318119>people going against their religion define it. Ask grok how many priests are in the epstien files vs. the politicians you worship
>>732318398Michael Moorecock. Read more than just Elric for the full Eternal Champion cycle.
>>732318398Elric, Berserk.
>uhhm listen to my 300 page essay on the origin of orcs and the tax policy or mordordo tolkienkeks really?
>>732318473Corum is the best.
>>732318640Sometimes we break out in song about the qualities of bread. >>732318667Too dour for me but I liked how aware he was of the Cycle. Ericosse is literally me so I like him best.
>>732318398is there a guide like this for japanese sci fi and fantasy? or maybe eastern european, or italian?or are they even translated to english, because i noticed for some reason nobody translates literature when even the sloppiest anime gets fansubs the day it's released
>>732311112>we will see a purified Fatansy that embraces the cold sharpness of constant warfare / biological evolution, the PRIMORDIAL TRUTH, like Robert E. Howard materialised in Conan.The problem with your version of fantasy is that it is so droll and white-coded, written in such a dry distasteful fashion that no one in society ever takes it seriously. In other words IT'S FUCKING BORING AND YOU'RE AN EDGY FAGGOT
>>732312123what do you think happened from 1500BC to 800BC after the bronze age collapse???
>>732316860Good on you for trying for a retarded gotcha, but the anglicized name reflects the nuance of the name bilbo gave them. You're trying REALLY hard to claim the term "easterlings" isnt diegetic and I fear you're too retarded to understand why that's silly.
>>732311112You posted this already >because he's christian, there is no evolutionHe's Catholic and the Catholic church has not objected to the theory of evolution from the day Darwin published The Origin of Species. Catholics haven't ever taken the bible literally. St. Augustine of Hippo specifically objected to a literal interpretation of Genesis in the fourth century.
>>732311112>fantasy is lameStill infinitely better than Sci-slop
>>732319053There's evolution in the lord of the rings, hobbits come about as a result of it.
>>732318763Most stuff isn't translated. It's Korean but Lee Youg-do's The Bird That Drinks Blood (피를 마시는 새) is a pretty good high fantasy series that I believe recently got translated into English and German.
>>732319134You're all too stupid to realize it because you're goyim, but all of the lies, trickery, and the whole facade is falling away; all the obfuscations and fantasy worlds, whatever, are all going away to prepare the world for the truth of Judaism.Lmfao
>>732311112>his god was oneanother jewish thread
>>732319053this is because the bible was not meant to be taken literally and doing so is stupid
>>732311112>it's another poseur retard rambling about fantasy and tolkien>ctrl+f>"vance" not founddamn were twitter addicts right when they said vocal kulturkampfers were not fans to begin with? what a sad state of affairs
also i forgot to say this, i think the reason anglos rate themselves so high so much so that they think works from other countries are inferior when it comes to literature is because 90% of foreign literature is untranslatedunlike movies which at least gets subs and a die hard fanbase even in america(if you check out letterboxd half the most favourited movies are made outside USA)this bias exists everywhere, ask a french, japanese, italian, russian to rank themselves in terms of books and most would rate their country slightly below america
>>732318398R. Scott Bakker
There is plenty of fantasy that has nothing to do with Tolkeinisms You’re just too retarded to notice it
>>732319217Me on the right
>>732319319
>>732319190Right, OP is doubly stupid.
>>732319359Where do I start? Prince of Nothing?
didnt readrespect your elders
>>732319501yes.
>>732319490>images (47).jpg kek
>>732319359I don't think The No-God is ever happening at this point.
>>732311112what a shit thread
can anyone recommend me fantasy/sci fi movies made outside the US?also anyone watch picrel is it good?
>>732320987World On a WireTetsuo: The Iron ManFantastic Planet On the Silver GlobeKin-dza-dza!
>>732320987bulgarian treasure planet
>>732318407Your pope wears pedo logos, calm down.
>>732311112Never read LotR (only watched movies) so I can't say whether I agree or not with OP, but at the very least I will agree with his statement that we need more Conan. Conan is good. I wish we got more games inspired by Conan. God I hope that new Golden Axe is good.
>>732312494>It isn't known exactly where they come from, but I've never seen it said anywhere that they have women and children.Huh. I know orcs were created from elves corrupted by Morgoth, but is it spelled out anywhere whether orcs are immortal in the same way elves are? That has to have demographic effects.
>>73231143690% of the world are insecure faggots
>>732324001Yes I did call every Muslim extremist an insecure faggotBecause they are lolIran's leadership is so wormlike they have to cut internet and still can't stop people telling them to fuck off from power even after killing thirty thousand people sick of their shit
>>732324001Correct.
>>732318398Read The Night Land.Written by a gigachad former sailor, boxing instructor and early foot fetishist, William Hope Hodgeson was putting out post-apocalyptic fantasy mega-kino nearly a hundred and twenty years ago, before Lovecraft or Howard even started writing. Unfortunately he was taken too soon as he was blown up by artillery in the first world war.
>>732315552>and we know this for a number of reasons that I can elborate oncan you elaborate for me? i was randomly actually just thinking about trying to learn more in regards to this topic as i dont really know anything, but the topic and the history sounds really interesting
You should write for Gawker, you AI gen writing faggot.
>>732316705>Making his magnum opus work about a ringi cant figure out what this is referencing
>>732318407>vs. the politicians you worshiplmfao tell me which party in america is associated with religion again? and which one has an active leader of their party all over those files? keyword: active
>>732316301Kristian is so fucking stupid. Tolkien was Catholic in a deeply anti-Catholic country. If he was just looking to cover his ass he would have become Anglican.
>>732319312>this is because the bible was not meant to be taken literally and doing so is stupidim not familiar enough with christanity to know if this is true or not, but over the last few months as i've learned more about the yogis and shit and ancient eastern philosophy this has been something i've started to suspect myself. any christanfags wanna confirm nor deny? the yogis concept of a divine self and meditation just seem suspiciously similar to the teachings of jesus (which i admit im not really at all familiar with so i could be entirely off base) and its made me think the entire religion is maybe just based if its just a normie-sanitized/western mythologized version of the same things yogis realized
>>732327057>im not familiar enough with christanity to know if this is true or notIt is. No one took the bible literally until stupid American Evangelicals decided to do so in the last couple hundred years. As I said earlier the precedent for not doing so goes back to St. Augustine and even earlier, Origen also objected to a literal reading of Genesis 1800 years ago but he's an outlier for other reasons.https://historyforatheists.com/2021/03/the-great-myths-11-biblical-literalism/
>>732327273>when it would be considered blasphemy todayWhy?Tolkien had prehistoric animals. The fell beasts were pterodactyls. The Oliphants were mammoths.
>>732327248>>732327373maybe the linked article gets into this but how would this shift even happen over time? shouldnt the existence of religious leaders, like not even just the pope but all the people below him throughout history, shouldn't they have been enough from stopping this from happening? also what about the crusades, aren't those based on arguments of literal interpretations of these religions, or? maybe again your article gets into it but its late and id rather read a response to my specific questions
>>732327373>Muslims didn't take the quaran literally until the 19th century
>>732327273Pre-Tolkien fantasy wasn't fantasy it was alt-history.
>>732327465The article does go into it. The short answer is Americans are stupid and exegesis is beyond their mental capacity.>also what about the crusades, aren't those based on arguments of literal interpretations of these religionsUh, no. Muslims and Christians had coexisted peacefully for centuries in the holy lands before one group decided to start killing Christian pilgrims, that's why the crusades started.
>>732327584So was Tolkien. Arda is canonically our earth in the mythological past, the same as with Howard's Hyborian Age.
>>732327695>The short answer is Americans are stupid and exegesis is beyond their mental capacity.i feel like all of my learned history is of shit happening because of people who took all of this shit very seriouslyis the further extrapolation there then that people teaching the history misinterpret that history or something>before one group decided to start killing Christian pilgrims, that's why the crusades started.now i dont know really anything about the crusades so im not SAYING your wrong, but i would be really shocked if it was actually this one-sided and simple
>>732312494>Tolkien inspired people to take fantasy races seriously and give them nations, cultures, etc. Before that they were just silly plot devices.It was better when they were silly plot devices. Focus on worldbuilding ruined fantasy.
>>732327780you're*fuck that's like the 20th ones of those mistakes ive made
>>732311112The Apex predator on earth is the human and it has none of the feature you claim it should have.
>>732327905actually the apex predator on earth is the well connected jewish pedophile
>>732311112>Orcs are the apex predatorsNo they fucking aren't. Tolkien describes elf lords killing orcs "in their thousands." Elf Lords are basically overpowered anime characters in this setting and orcs get shit on by peasants. The orcs are only even remotely good at fighting because Isengard and Mordor started breeding Uruk-hai.
>>732327742Islamic fundamentalism is based on the, get this, fundamental elements of islam. Which were there from the start. That's why they're called fundamental. Genuinely I want to hear you reconcile how a religion could have been started by people preaching the word of a supposed miracle performing prophet while simultaneously not actually being taken literally for another 1,100 years. Like when someone met Mohammed in the 6th century and kneeled were they supposed to think he was a metaphorical prophet and didn't take things literally until the mean ol christians bullied them 1,100 years later?
>>732327780>im not SAYING your wrong, but i would be really shocked if it was actually this one-sided and simpleIt is with a caveat. Christians and Muslims got along fine in Palestine for over 400 years. Then the Seljuks started killing Christians as I said. That was the impetus. The Fatimids conquered Jerusalem from the Seljuks a year before the first crusaders took the city but they had already decided "fuck Muslims" by that point.
>>732316301Even after the second vatican council reformed the liturgy to switch to english (or the majority language of the country), he continued singing in latin out of spite, which his son apparently was embarrassed by. At least it means he had the prayers, hymns and the entire mass completely memorized.
>>732327695>Uh, no. Muslims and Christians had coexisted peacefully for centuries in the holy lands before one group decided to start killing Christian pilgrims, that's why the crusades started.634 – Victory against the Byzantines in Palestine(Ajnadayn).634-644 – Umar reigns as the second caliph. The Muslimssubjugate Egypt, Palestine, Syria, Mesopotamia andPersia. Garrisons are established in the conqueredlands, and the Muslim rulers begin to take control offinancial organisation.635 – Muslims begin the conquest of Persia and Syria635 – Arab Muslims capture the city of Damascus636-637 – Arab domination of Syria637 – Arabs occupy Ctesiphon637 – Jerusalem falls to Muslim forces. The UmayyadCaliphs commission the construction of the al-AqsaMosque and Dome of the Rock. The Mosque wascompleted in 688, the Dome in 692.638 – Caliph Umar I enters Jerusalem639 – Muslims conquer Egypt and Persia641 – Islam spreads into Egypt641 – Muslims conquer Alexandria649 – Muawiya I leads raid against Cyprus sacking thecapital Salamis-Constantia652 – Sicily is attacked by Muslims653 – Quran (or Koran – 114 suras) compiled byUthman, the third caliph (reign 644 to 656)653 – Muawiya I leads raid against Rhodes654 – Muawiya I conquers Cyprus655 – Battle of the Masts661-680 Muawiya moves capital from Mecca to Damascus662 – Egypt falls to the Umayyad and Abbasid caliphates667 – Sicily is attacked by Muslims; Arabs occupyChalcedon.668 – First siege of Constantinople669 – Muslim conquest reaches Morocco672 – Muslims capture the island of Rhodes674 – Arab conquest reaches Indus River
>>732311112Just read pre-Tolkien like Lord Dunsany, Arthur Manchen, Mervyn Peake, William Hope Hodgson and Clark Ashton Smith.
>>732328274698 – Muslims capture Carthage700 – Muslims raid Island of Sicily711 – Muslims conquest of Sindh in Afghanistan711 – Battle of Guadalate712 – Conquest of Andulusia715 – Muslim conquest of Spain716 – Muslims captured Lisbon717 – Cordova becomes capital of Andalusia (Spain);second siege of Constantinople.719 – Muslims attack Septimania in Southern France721 – Muslims cross the Pyrenees722 – Battle of Covadonga First defeat of Muslims byChristians724 – Muslims raid southern France and captureCarcassone and Nimes725 – Muslim forces occupy Nimes, France730 – Muslim forces occupy Narbonne and Avignon732 – Battle of Tours (Christian Victory) – With perhaps1,500 soldiers, Charles Martel halts a Muslim force ofaround 40,000 to 60,000 cavalry under Abd el-Rahman Al Ghafiqi. Muslims call it Balat al-Shuhada,the Highway of Martyrs, and treat it as a minorengagement.735 – Muslim invaders capture Arles750 – Abbasids move capital to Baghdad (see map)756 – The Emirate of Cordova is established759 – Pippin III ends Muslim incursions in France792 – Hisham I calls for a Jihad Thousands heed his callto cross the Pyrenees to subjugate France. Many citiesare destroyed800 – North Africa falls under the rule of the Aghlabidynasty of Tunis.801 – Vikings begin selling slaves to Muslims.813 – Muslims attack the Civi Vecchia near Rome
>>732328274Christians were free to worship in the holy land. I don't know how this wikipedia list of battles fought during Islamic expansion is supposed to disprove that, moron.
>>732328371816 – The Moors support the Basques against the Franks827 – Sicily is invaded by Muslims831 – Muslims capture Palermo and make it their capital838 – Muslim raiders sack Marseille841 – Muslim forces capture Bari (in Italy)846 – Muslim raiders attack areas near Ostia and Rome.Some enter Rome and damage the Churches of St. Peterand St. Paul. The Leonine Wall is built to discouragefurther Attacks.849 – Battle of Ostia (Christian Victory)850 – Perfectus, a Christian priest in Muslim Cordova isexecuted; the first of many.851 – Young Christians are executed for insulting theProphet Muhammed858 – Muslim raiders attack Constantinople859 – Muslim invaders capture Castrogiovannislaughtering several thousand868 – The Sattarid dynasty extended Muslim controlthroughout most of Persia.869 – Arabs capture the island of Malta870 – Muslim invaders capture Syracuse876 – Muslims pillage Campagna in Italy879 – The Seljuk Empire unites Mesopotamia and a largeportion of Persia884 – Muslims invading Italy burn the monastery ofMonte Cassino to the ground900 – The Fatimid Dynasty assumes control of Egypt902 – The Muslim conquest of Sicily is completed whenthe Christian city of Toorminia is captured909 – Sicily comes under control of the Fatimids909 – The Fatimid Dynasty assumes control of Egypt909 – Muslims control all the passes in the Alps betweenFrance and Italy cutting off passage between the twocountries911 – Muslims control all the passes in the Alps betweenFrance and Italy920 – Muslim forces cross the Pyrenees, enter Gasconyand reach as far as the gates of Toulouse972 – The Fatimids of Egypt conquer North Africa981 – Ramiro III, king of Leon, is defeated at Rueda985 – Al-Mansur Ibn Abi Aamir sacks Barcelona994 – The monastery of Monte Cassino is destroyed asecond time by Arabs
>>732316301>broke off with his best pal CS Lewis because of how deeply he embraced Catholicism>h-he was only pretending hes pagan guys
>>732328431997 – Under the leadership of Almanzar, Muslim forcesmarch out of the city of Cordova and head north tocapture Christian lands.997 – Muslim forces burn Compostela to the ground1004 – Arab raiders sack the Italian city of Pisa1009 – The Holy Sepulcher in Jerusalem is destroyed byMuslim armies1009 – Caliph Al-Hakim bi-Amr Allah orders the HolySepulcher and all Christian buildings in Jerusalem bedestroyed1012 – Caliph Al-Hakim bi-Amr Allah orders thedestruction of all Christian and Jewish houses ofworship in his lands1012 – Berber forces capture Cordova and order that halfthe population be executed1013 – Jews expelled from the Umayyad Caliphate ofCordova, then ruled by Sulaimann.1015 – Arab Muslim forces conquer Sardinia1023 – Muslims expel the Berber rulers from Cordova andinstall Abd er-Rahman V as caliph.1038 – The Seljuk Turks become established in Persia.1042 – The rise of the Seljuk Turks begins.1055 – Seljuk Turks capture Baghdad.1056 – The Almoravid (al-Murabitun) Dynasty begins itsrise to power.1064 – The Seljuk Turks conquer Christian Armenia1070 – Seljuk Turks capture Jerusalem and beginpersecuting Christian Pilgrims1071-1085 – Seljuk Turks conquer most of Syria andPalestine1071 – Battle of Manzikert1073 – Seljuk Turks conquer Ankara1078 – Seljuk Turks capture Nicaea1084 – Seljuk Turks conquer Antioch1086 – Battle of Zallaca – Spanish forces defeated by theMoors and their Berber allies.1088 – Patzinak Turks begin forming settlementsbetween the Danube and the Balkans1090 – Granada captured by Yusuf Ibn Tashfin1091 – Cordova is captured by the Almoravid1095 - NOW the first crusade happensThe first crusade was a reaponse to several centuries of agressive expansion into christian lands. For fucks sake they invaded all of spain.
>>732326307based, cool af setting
Tolkein was in denial, but he knew the truths deep down. Look at this earlier conceptions of the dwarves.
>>732328274>>732328371>>732328431>>732328510Still waiting for you to explain what this has to do with Christians being free to worship in the holy lands you fucking dumbass.
Just read The Night Land and get over yourself lmao
>>732328547Tolkien compared Dwarves to Jews from a cultural standpoint you idiot. They spoke a single shared language and lived all over in exile from the ancestral homeland they were obsessed with retaking.
>>732328593I never said they weren't. You said the crusades started because one group started killing christian pilgrims. I then posted a detailed list of several centuries of muslims invading Christian lands. Which was the actual reason for the first crusade. It was in response to a long long long series of invasions and conquests, not just a single event involving pilgrims.
>>732328674Yes, now look at the early conceptions of them. Book of Lost Tales if I remember. He then modified it later to make them good.
>>732328546The Night Land was low key very influential on modern horror. It was a major inspiration for Lovecraft in particular. So it inspired things that are still inspiring people to this day. It's strange how forgotten it was for so long. Until the past decade it was very obscure.
>>732328734I've read The Histories. Cite what's wrong with the "early conceptions" or fuck off.
>>732316301Varg is coping. I love Tolkiens books, but he was lowest of the low judeophile, like most anglokikes
>>732328978Nothing wrong, just shows how he developed and changed his stories. The Dwarves were originally an evil race.
>>732315928The civil war in Skyrim.
>>732329038>The Dwarves were originally an evil race.So exactly like they are in the Norse myths? The fuck does that have to do with Jews?
>>732329124My mistake, you're absolutely right and it's completely absurd to even think otherwise. No correlation.
>>732316705If you're implying George wrote all of Elden Ring then you're wrong, all he wrote was the story of the old gods thousands of years before the game takes place, and some of the names of the gods. This is stated in interviews by both himself and Miyazaki, his writing only served as inspiration and most of what little he wrote never made it into the actual game.Elden Ring is by no means his work at all
>>732329170Are you fucking with me or are you actually apologizing instead of doubling down on being wrong? Don't you know where you are?
>>732318398But why turn him into a reddit frog?
>>732311112I have no idea why people worship this retard like he's the second coming of christ instead of just a decently good author.
>>732311112videogames?
>>732311112My favorite type of schizo retard is the neo-nazi pagan-larper that hecking LOVES tolkien, they're obsessed with the middle-earth and it's lore and aesthetics, but they sperg the fuck out on christians, call everyone a christcuck, have jews living rentfree in their heads 24/7, and are constantly seething about interracial relationships and demographics. WHILE somehow worshipping a book that's about allegories for christianity written by a massive christian, about uniting all races to save the world, and as reddit-coded as possible in terms of avengers/friendship. And here's based Tolkien's thoughts on the jewish question.>Thank you for your letter. I regret that I am not clear as to what you intend by arisch. I am not of Aryan extraction: that is Indo-Iranian; as far as I am aware none of my ancestors spoke Hindustani, Persian, Gypsy, or any related dialects. But if I am to understand that you are enquiring whether I am of Jewish origin, I can only reply that I regret that I appear to have no ancestors of that gifted people. My great-great-grandfather came to England in the eighteenth century from Germany: the main part of my descent is therefore purely English, and I am an English subject—which should be sufficient. I have been accustomed, nonetheless, to regard my German name with pride, and continued to do so throughout the period of the late regrettable war, in which I served in the English army. I cannot, however, forbear to comment that if impertinent and irrelevant inquiries of this sort are to become the rule in matters of literature, then the time is not far distant when a German name will no longer be a source of pride.Sci-fi mogs.
>>732327808>It was better when they were silly plot devices. Focus on worldbuilding ruined fantasy.There's something to that. When people do worldbuilding they mostly build worlds like ours. Managing supply chains and walking elves through their gender transition and shit.
>>732330965Not right now. Discordtrannies are raiding again.
>>732326853Epstein was a Democrat, as were the people he surrounded himself with
>>732313852No good Middle-earth video games in a long time
>>732315804Tolkien never really developed the dwarves' culture outside of Durin's folk.wonder where the other dwarves lived.
>>732313464Man leftist freaks really aren't people.
>>732311112You're a faggot
>>732317063>Fantasy as a genre is totally incestuousI don't disagree with you here, but it's less down to unimaginative writers and more down to book publishers wanting writers to ape Tolkien since it sold better than older pulp fantasy like CAS
>>732333057Some lived in the Blue Mountains (northwest middle earth, next to where Beleriand used to be). I dunno much else.
Beowulf is coolMake your own fantasy lad
>>732311112>biological evolutionEvolution is a myth, 0 evidence for evolution.Jesus is Lord, keep coping.
>>732311112I am not at your level of crackpottery, good sir. I don't know what your complaint is about. There are other fantasy series as well. Made after Tolkien. Without Tolkien.
>>732317575>then proceeded to write clearly allegorical stories about WW1, Christianity, and the atom bomb.Oh? Which ones are those? I quite liked LotR so if there's something of his I haven't heard of I'm interested.
>>732311112>yes i'm a schizo, how could you tell.
>>732333057Besides elves and man (which was mostly Numenorians) he leaves alot to the imagination when it comes to other cultures. Look at Rhun, Umbar, Khand and Harad. Look at the other continents which only have vague names or Hobbits, the main characters of all 4 books. Maybe its for the best. Would you trust some modern developers to make a game set 1000 years before LOTR in Harad and the main character is a motion-captured Deborah Wilson? Or a show? Or even a movie? Do you know a movie about Rohan with an “anime” aesthetic fucking bombed? Yeah I wouldnt even trust people here to write a short story set in ME.
>>732334480tolkein did developed Rohan and the Shire quite a bit, but I guess those are both outliers compared to his Elf and Númenor obsession
>>732311112So what was Sauron and Sauronman's ultimate plan? >hurr lets just kill everyone and rule (how?) over unwashed chaotic hordes of braindead orcs who can't even into farmingAnd why did any human (Umbar, Harad, etc) even think it was a good idea to join in on that plan?
>>732329354stop seething anytime jew
>>732335592Parts of Mordor were farmland, actually. And obviously there's room for Men in Sauron's vision. Of course, it wouldn't be a great life for many people, but Sauron was known to be adept at deception. Saruman joined him because Sauron showed him selective visions through the Palantír and he became convinced that Sauron's ultimate victory would be inevitable. He didn't want to be on the losing side.Evil also holds the promise of power. That would sway many people. Better to reign in Hell than serve in Heaven, and all that.
>>732335592>>732336618Also, Umbar and Harad had been long-standing enemies of the Men of the West for far more mundane reasons. I imagine that made allying with Sauron attractive as well.
>>732311334You should keep your braindead porn fantasies to yourself instead of butting in and trying to derail actual discussion
Anyway, enough about this retarded OP.Can I get anon's thoughts on The Sword of Truth? Found the series for cheap at a thrift shop, but haven't got around to reading yet.Currently working my way through Feist's complete work; it's not bad, but I feel like ever series after the Serpentwar is a massive drop in quality, I'm kinda just forcing myself to go through to the end.
>>732329124Norse dwarves are very complicated. I would say that you have to delineate between poetic dwarves and the dwarves of common parlance. A dwarf in mythological poetry are a sort of race of powerful spirits who are generally neutral to somewhat in favor of the gods.A dwarf in common parlance amongst European pagans is something more like a gremlin. A kind of nasty, invisible spirit that brings sickness, disease, and nightmares. In fact, the word dwarf actually means nightmare.However, I don’t think these categories are meant to encapsulate the same entities, even though they are both called dwarves.
>>732337327>In fact, the word dwarf actually means nightmare.Isn't the etymology the other way around? A nightmare was seen as a kind of possession? I think it was fever tho, not nightmares
>>732337394I should have been more specific. Dwarf etymologically has always referred to an entity, but the inception of the word was referring to an entity that produced nightmares.
>>732311112Then take inspirations from his contemporaries you hot shot.
>>732311112>Fatansy that embraces the cold sharpness of constant warfare / biological evolution, the PRIMORDIAL TRUTH, like Robert E. Howard materialised in Conan
>>732311171fibbity
>>732313852classic contrarianism
>>732311112>Robert E. Howard>momma's boy incel who killed himself after his mother diedcringe
>>732340147>not loving your motherhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RO6JiFztJdg
>>732340396based Mr. T
>>732316864>code of HammurabiIt's very efficient, though it seems savage and absurd from our point of view. Civilizations that don't evolve safety breakers to prevent blood feud and conflict will collapse and get eaten by those that did develop laws. The main pont is that you can't escalate a conflict by murdering the whole family of someone that accidentally killed your cousin. These laws are necessary in an early civilization where everyone has a dozen brothers, sons, cousins and nephews.Your example doesn't come from the code of Hammurabi by the way.
>>732340147Conan's creator was pretty based but also fairly pathetic. Guy was clearly intelligent but he staked so much in his relationship with his mother.
>>732320987Les Visiteurs is a must watch, some 11th century knight and his retarded lackey get isekai'd to modern day France
>>732341578>>732340147He had a few failed romances, but he was an accomplished writer of influential pulps and an amateur boxer.He let despair get to him in the end, but his writing is brimming with life and energy.
>>73231111213 year old thinks he knows bestmore shocking news at 10
>>732313852Elden Ring nuked the /v/ hivemind and conditioned them to despise anything that vaguely resembles like Elden Ring
>>732311112>>despite Tolkien love semites (his god was one)After these things Jesus walked in Galilee: for he would not walk in Jewry, because the Jews sought to kill him.
