Is killing Miquella the morally right thing to do? Are we the baddies?
>>732312394Miquella is the hero.
>>732312394>Is killing Miquella the morally right thing to do?Definitely.
>>732312394You did what you were compelled to do by the grace of the Erdtree but it doesn't mean what you did was the "right thing" to do.
>>732312394Yes. You must stop all the pretenders who attempt to change the demiurge's vision
>>732312551So Goldmask is against Miquella?
>>732312394I abandon here my morals.
>>732312618So we're just going full Terraria mode? Killing bosses for the sake of killing them and getting stronger?
>>732312609Obviously. Hornsent approximation of what people should do under the GW was pretty fucked though.
>>732312609>The current imperfection of the Golden Order, or instability of ideology, can be blamed upon the fickleness of the gods no better than men.He is against gods who destabilise or corrupt the golden order. That includes all the empyreans in game + Marika
>>732312756What exactly is his vision of the future. I'm doing a "good guy" run for my fist run, I got the mending rune and intend to use it. But what exactly does it entail?
>>732312862Everyone is subject to the gods, same as the hornsent culture he comes from. His MO is stop fighting against it and accept your place.
>>732312862Goldmask's ending has more room for interpretation than all other endings combined. Mostly because the main NPC for the ending, doesn't speak. My interpretation is that it depowers people like Markia and the other gods from meddling with the Elden Ring. The end goal would be a religion not ruled by priests or god monarchs but by silent admiration of the Greater Will. Similar to the protestant reformation, removing emphasis on the clergy and Pope.
>>732313054Goldmask is Martin Luther?
>>732312862What happens if you remove human influence from the ring game? Aliens control humans completely. Thats what Goldmask wants because his people were cucked on a theological level. >>732313183Not even close.
>>732312490This. Tarnished are compelled by grace to seek out the Elden Ring and become Elden Lord. Your grace points you to the Erdtree, and to fell anyone that may stand in your way, it doesn't matter who. Former allies, former Elden Lords, even the CURRENT Elden Lord.Likewise, your grace also points you towards Miquella. He is a threat to your future rule, and so must be felled. Also, Radahn and Miquella struck first. Mickey says that you should surrender and allow him to pass if you agree with his morals, and then the next moment casts Light of Miquella to nuke you. Only a fool would trust his word. It's like trusting Dagoth Ur, who does the same thing.The only demigods that can be reasoned with are Ranni and Melina, and that's cause both have their own agendas that require allying with you. And even then Melina fucks off in a huff if you accept the Frenzied Flame, even if you later quell it to cheat fate solely to spare her.
>>732313183Yes
>>732312919>>732313209Goldmask is not hornsent. There is zero evidence of this.
>>732312862In layman's terms, just listen to Miriel and what he has to say about the idea of heresy
>>732313283You never met goldmask and looked at his clothing?
>>732313209>Aliens control humans completely. Not anymore they don't
>>732313318He probably didn't recognize what it meant. Goldmask's redress of Marika's empire makes complete sense once you realize he's coming from the POV of a culture blown the fuck out by her rule.
>>732312394Clicking Miquella
>>732313318>>732313404Nice same fagging. Goldmask is an ascetic and dresses like it. No evidence of him being a Hornsent. He doesn't say anything either to indicate anything about his culture.
>>732313404Goldmask is a Golden Order fundamentalist
>>732313490why is this guy in every thread?
>>732312756>Righteous Tarnished. Become our new lord. A lord not for gods, but for menReminder that Ansbach straight up asks you to do the Goldmask ending as his dying words.
>>732313519And the hornsent had an internal inquisition that persecuted hornless hornsent.
>>732313560hes rightthere's nothing about goldmask that indicates he's hornsentwhy the fuck would a hornsent be outside the land of shadow?
>>732313560Yeah man totes, two separate people had the exact same obscure theory that Goldmask is a hornsent in the same thread and replied exactly one minute apart from each other.
>>732313560Just be happy that his autism always outs him in the same ways.
>>732313635And that exact type of persecution is what Goldmask despises the most.
>>732312394Don't care.I *will* be Elden Lord.
>>732313519Fundamentalist in ER doesn't mean fundamentalist.
>>732312394Of course, I did it all for the Frenzied Flame.
>>732312394This expansion killed Elden Ring for meIt just so sillyIt was better without story, than having a shit one
>>732314229It does actually, thats why they used the word.
>>732314304It's a rationalist sect so nope.
>>732314407Fundamentalism is a term itself anon. Not even religious only.
>>732314480Well it's still sort of religious in this case.
Miquella is the perversion of light and is the antiChrist of that setting. He killed his better half to suppress his humanity to ascend into something worse.
>>732314660Religions are opt-in.
GOD the dlc was so much worse than the main game it's unreal
>>732312394 They should have given you a choice to join him and to have a new ending based on the dlc but instead they half assed and made one of the shittiesr dlcs ever fromsoft ever made
>>732315231kek
>>732314703Not islam
>>732315323Islam is 100% opt-in.
>>732312394No, spread the bussy and create a new Elden Ring.
>>732315274Bro the dlc was ass the final rrailer shows miquella cutscenes that are nowhere in the game. U were clearly going to be following him around and working with him but they changed everything within thr span of 2 months
>>732315394Nope.
>>732315559you tried and thats what matters.>>732315776Every non-muslim alive has opted out of islam.
>>732312862He basically wants religion without deities. Where people worship and the religion itself rather than some god atop it. It's a buddhist/eastern mysticism thing.
>>732312394>kill the gay god of DEIIt would be morally incorrect to let him live.And that's not even touching on the actual mindcontrol he does.
>>732313241>Mickey says that you should surrender and allow him to pass if you agree with his morals, and then the next moment casts Light of Miquella to nuke you.This is just Miyazaki being garbage at making games, not an actual revelation of Miquella's character. In truth, Miquella really doesn't have a character because the devs just made him a series of vibes, like they do with pretty much everyone and everything in Soulslop.
>>732318247Then he and Radahn shouldn't have attacked and you attacking him should indicate your response and trigger phase 2. Leave the arena to let Miquella pass. It's not hard to make NPCs like that, see Priscilla in DS1 or even Patches here.
>>732312551If the demiurge was real the Tarnished would just kill him. There is no philosophy in these games, they are soulless boss rushes.
>>732315883>Every non-muslim alive has opted out of islam.Yes, that is actually the case. Every baby is born a muslim.
>>732318346That is correct, but Miyazaki is a hack now and we'll never get a boss like Maiden Astraea or Sif or Priscilla ever again.
>>732318445I don't think you understand what opt-in means.
>>732312862His goal is to not have power tripping egomaniacs taking whatever chunks suit them out of the fundamental fabric of reality and causing millennia-long travesties because they're selfish cunts.The laws of nature don't need someone fucking with them, nothing good with come of it.
>>732312862No one knows. But it may turn the Gods into symbols rather than people. Marika not as a woman who is traumatized by her past who has mental issues from it that drive her to brutality and great building in turn, but Marika as the symbol or projection of herself onto the wall that fills the pure symbolic role of a head mother Goddess. If she's alive, someone like Malenia could hypothetically go from what she is, a warrior woman fighting for her identity with the Rot God, to perhaps a warrior Goddess with a cosmic role around the cycle of death and decay. If Radahn is alive, he may go from what he is, a warlord who froze the stars to save the cities he loved and who wanted to become lord of the world, to perhaps the image of a great god of war who controls the stars and cycles of the planets atop his wondrous steed.Etc. for other Gods. I get this because I believe that Goldmask is a reference to Plato and other late Greek philosophers looking back at ancient legends from Homer or Hesiod or even contemporary works by those like Euripides, and finding their very human-like depictions of the Gods as being distasteful and even sacrilege.Instead, they put forth images of the Gods that removed their humanity and gave them specific and limited places as controllers of natural forces or representations and upholders of cosmic cycles. Pure and perfectly good, but no longer functionally autonomous, but instead beings that had a single cosmic purpose behind them.
I always wondered why these bosses in Soulslop games are itching so much to kill you, you literally just walk into their domain and they spout some random shit that no one cares about and then they proceed to put every inch of their power into killing you. Are they upset that you’re trespassing? Fucking retarded spoiled assholes.
>>732318931This isn't a question that people ask in games that have good narratives that properly frame the gameplay.
>>732318684>The laws of nature don't need someone fucking with them, nothing good with come of it.And yet he wants to fuck with them.
>>732319003He's not a very smart man, his philosophy is colored by Marika genociding his people.
>>732313318No horns. His model is just a standard lanky commoner model. Asceticism isn't something the Hornsent invented as a concept.
SHUT THE FUCK UPHoly fuck. Just stopThis game does not have 'lore' nor does it have a plot. It has a bunch of vague ideas like "what if there was a dragon that lived forever that not even god could kill". They set it during the apocalypse and rip a bunch of holes out of the story and call it being mysterious, and then these rubes on Youtube make an hour long documentary on how smart it is when they manage to draw some kind of disparate connection.Get a life. I consider playing any other game to be having a life.
>>732314229It does if you're a Catholic.
>>732319301>No horns.Like the hornsent without horns.
>>732315231Every FromSoft game ending, save 1 in Bloodborne, focuses on human choice. Even if you make a bad choice that harms the world intentionally. That was still a choice and you had to make it yourself. A Miquella Ending where you handed him the reins of power to mind control the world is not an ending that fits with FromSoft design philosophy. It was never going to happen.
>>732319521>A Miquella Ending where you handed him the reins of power to mind control the world is not an ending that fits with FromSoft design philosophy.Personally, I would like something more than reheated Souls forever from my fantasy worlds.
>>732319819Not me. Still the best fantasy settings on the market. And the focus on humanity and the player having to embrace a duty as the one that stands above everyone else and makes a decision, is part of what makes their games fun.
>>732319819I liked how different elden ring was from souls games. It felt like a real evolution in everything.
>>732312394No, we are just some nutcase compelled to fight stronger and stronger beings, until we are either the strongest or the only one left. Ascribing 'lore' to any of this is foolish and a waste of time.
>>732312394do you think they're banging?
>>732319003No, he wants to put shit back to how it was and lock the door so nobody else can fuck with it, including Outer Gods.However I have no interest in arguing with retards, so this is your last pity (You) you'll get from me, goodbye.
>>732320361Miquella is 100% buckbreaking Radahn. Pounding that horseboy's ass.
>>732320421There would be no outer gods in his system. Golden Order Totality would be achieved by force.
>>732319989>It felt like a real evolution in everything.Except cohesion and immersion, where it is ten steps back from the best the early games had to offer.
>>732318684>The laws of nature don't need someone fucking with them, nothing good with come of it.The laws of nature have never existed independently of the Gods in that setting. It is just as artificial to exclude them with an image of a perfect unadulterated form that never existed, than to include the gods as unstable as they are.
>>732320543Those felt the most evolved.
>>732312394Why did the DLC have so little to do with Malenia or the Scarlet Rot when she was Miquella's champion? I don't think Radahn's story references him once.
>>732320604Because she was a nobody in the grand scheme of things.
>>732320601In a world that exists in the aftermath of a perpetual civil war, with every lord who participated in that civil war still living, and all of said lords but Rykard still leading an army replete with soldiers bearing banners and wearing colors and forming encampments, it is immersive that there isn't a single human town or hub of any kind anywhere in the world you're trying to become lord of?
>>732320735you tried lol
>>732320604Because the devs didn't care about any of the lore they established previously and hoped you were too stupid to notice.
>>732320604Weird that we didn't get a Malenia follower among Miquella's motley crew. Suppose that is a message about how deeply he cared for her at the end, when his ambition became his main drive and no longer love.She's thanked (his loyal blade) in the same passing as you are (the champion of the festival). Two that are just conveniences on the way that happened to benefit him. It isn't like Miquella knows you for his thanks to be anything more than perfunctory politeness. She eventually was discarded when he realized he'd never be able to cure her and bigger problems came to the front.
>>732319989What the fuck are you talking aboutYeah they always wanted to make Skyrim but they just couldn't manage it and ended up creating a game based on 1:1 combat with no plot.They added a horse so it BROKE NEW GROUND
>>732320765You didn't.
>>732320810Its written in english eslbro.>>732320765Don't trigger him please.
>>732320735The Demon's Souls Apocalypse started recently, but literally the entire world is mutated into weird creatures by it and there's only a handful of sane people left, somehow.
>>732320882Yeah, it's a magical fog that has engulfed a kingdom that you are only exploring slivers of and it has stolen people's souls.
>>732321007Similar to Elden Ring when you think about it.
>>732312394DS lore is way better (excluding 2), ER lore just feels unfinished and unsatisfying. Also final boss should've been Godwyn 100%>>732319340>They hated him cause he told the truth
>>732321042Its thought out much less in demon's souls its given a whole cosmology to explain it in elden ring.
>>732320792>Weird that we didn't get a Malenia follower among Miquella's motley crew.Technically that's Leda, since Malenia and Miquella stuck together. Otherwise Malenia doesn't have any footsoldiers, just Cleanrot Knights. Miquella's army was her army.
>>732313318According tom his armor set, his closest followers begged him to wear something to cover his gold cock. He was going around naked save for the mask at some point in his life.
I have to wonder what kind of pathetic specimen cries about a video game he allegedly hates for almost 5 fucking years.
>>732312394>guys whole deal is to mind rape people to swear loyaltyYou have to be apart of the cattle if you think otherwise
>>732320792>Weird that we didn't get a Malenia follower among Miquella's motley crew. We did get Thiollier, who does fill the role of being a follower of someone really close to Miquella
>>732321042Demon's Souls is the only Souls game that even bothers to contextualize why only the player can revive infinitely and nobody else can.
>>732321107The hornsent were kind of savages.
>>732321082Leda is less like a footsoldier and more like a spook whose job it was to be the secret police among Miquella's followers. We could have been given a Cleanrot Knight in the DLC, easily. We got a Redmane with Freya.
>>732312394St. Trina seems to think so
>>732321123People bitch about years old games on /v/ all the time, only Fromtards think people have an obligation to simp for their special franchise or forever keep their peace.
>>732321138Elden Ring does that too but actually explains it universally. It also ends up spending its entire playtime showing you how this system works. Its pretty crazy how much of the setting is built around explaining how it all works when you think about it.
>>732312756>>732312862It's not entirely clear what the Mending Rune of Perfect Order will entirely do, but from what we read and can infer, Goldmask wants to cure all of the curses, hold the gods/demi-gods/etc. accountable for their crimes, and remove the Empyrean-overseer god-outer god system entire.
>>732321149Most of the shades wear clothing, the only Hornset who wears very little are the Cursemask ninjas.Goldmask was likely naked because he was an enlightened individual inspired by real life historic philosophers like Diogenes.
>>732321229Soulslurpers are passionate about asserting things.
>>732321071Also what the fuck is up with the gloam eyed queen? Is it Melina, I still have no Idea
>>732321258He was probably naked because he was a corpse before the game starts. >>732321229People forget the opening cinematic shows you waking up in the afterlife and returning to the living world.
>>732321138Dark Souls does it. Bloodborne does it. Sekiro does it. Elden Ring does it. Elden Ring's is the most vaguely characterized, but it is still established that you revive because Marika has bestowed you with grace and sees potential in you. Just not as cleanly as Undeath and the Hunter's Dreams being the core symbols of their games.
>>732321502Its pretty clear once you figure out whats going on with the tree and burials and stuff.
>>732321502In Dark Souls plenty of undead NPCs just outright die when you kill them despite allegedly being immortal too. In Demon's Souls every NPC that isn't you is just a regular person, and so them dying permanently when you kill them makes sense.Elden Ring has exactly the same shit as Dark Souls where you can kill plenty of tarnished who inexplicably lack your immortality and there's no effort to explain this.
>>732312394He's a faggot, so yeah.
>>732321716Revival in Dark Souls is reliant on one holding onto their sanity through death, via a sense of purpose. Most NPCs you meet are at the ends of their ropes and don't have much to live for. When they die, they lose their sanity because they don't have the willpower to maintain themselves through death. Elden Ring has Grace be handed out in accordance to one's utility to Marika's plans. Most NPCs lost their Guidance of Grace because they lost their ambition to become Elden Lord. Marika has no need for shrinking violets to scared or petty to chase the Elden Throne.
>>732322023>Most NPCs lost their Guidance of Grace because they lost their ambition to become Elden Lord.You see Godfrey's grace pointing at you, and he's not immortal at all. It's all vibes, man.
>>732322103That isn't godfrey's grace, that is marika pointing the grace she always controlled at the player.
>>732322103When he lost he gave up and lost Marika's favor. When he tells you that your strength has earned you the crown, that is him accepting that he can't win and giving up on the Throne. Therefore he's discarded. He had Grace as long as he had ambition for the Throne.
>>732322189>When he lost he gave up and lost Marika's favor.And inexplicably you can lose a thousand times and never lose her favor. At least Demon's Souls is forthright about you being the chosen one, Dark Souls and Elden Ring pretend like they're subverting that trope and then the lore just kind of forgot that mechanically you're more specialer than everyone else.
>>732322289You always have the will to become Lord since you are playing the game.
>>732322289Mentality. You'll keep going on the salty runback long past anyone else quitting. You never lose your ambition to keep moving forward. If you do and drop the game, that is just the same as being like any other flop like Rogier or Boggart that gave up on being Lord.
>>732321071>DS lore is betterIs this a controversial statement.I'm sure there's at least one guy out there that will argue The Phantom Menace had a good plot.I liked the colors in this game.
>>732312394>a god that physically discards his own "love" from his own body because he considers it a weakness is good for the worldI think you forget how overwhelmingly powerful Miq is.
>>732321229Sirs why elden ring fans are mentally deficient
>>732322363>>73232238595% of all Fromslurper lore explanations boil down to hallucinations they got from a video essay. All the value of these games is largely just the consensus of a cult, and when that cult dies so will the games.
>>732322571You tried lol
>>732322589You didn't.
>>732322571The 'indomitable human spirit' has been at the core of these games for a decade. You are different because you never give up.
>>732322623That's cool and all, but I liked their themes better when they were accompanied by good worldbuilding and not just a lazy reskin of a game's lore from over a decade ago.
>>732322750Try Elden Ring you'll really like it if something like dark souls interested you. Fair warning, you might get filtered by its concepts.
God I love Elden Ring. Oh to have covid and stay in to play it for multiple days in a row.
>>732322783If you wanna feel smart that bad I'd recommend just reading a book. It's better for you and you might actually get something out of it instead of bizarre hallucinations you try to lord over strangers online.
>>732323123I honestly don't trust you to know how to read, no offence.
>>732323185I read a Phillip K. Dick short story earlier today. What's the last thing you read?
>>732323219The Brothers Karamazov.
>>732323027Seeing Siofra river for the first time was fucking insane. Finally getting to noxstella was awesome.
>>732323247Based. Much better and healthier than Miyazaki's slop.
>>732312724Always has been. Nearly 20 years and you JUST caught on?!
>>732323295It was less worldly than elden ring but its an old book I didn't expect it to have profundity in it. Classic russian literature are soap operas.
>>732320549Whether you consider it artificial or not is besides the point. All the problems with the world were caused both by their God being a petty, family human, and the very nature of their reality, the very idea of truth itself being directly tied to a mechanism controlled by that petty god. The simple fact of the matter is their world is incredibly volatile and prone to descending into apocalyptic chaos because of the absolute power and control one individual is given artificially. It is only common sense to put some security around the load bearing support beam that already got shattered and destroyed their world once before.
>>732323639The world has never been destroyed.
why must i kill him but can't put an end to ranni
For me, it's the PVP
>>732323806Same. I killed so many red women in that game.
>>732312394>letting a faggot challenge your tarnished's claim to the throne while his mother as your personal onaholeHe deserved to die for being a convoluted plans faggot and not letting me take St.Trina and Leda home.
>>732323769You could always buy a Ranni doll on ebay and film yourself melting it in acetone and then post it on Twitter underneath anything Fromsoft posts, as a joke.
>>732323769No great rune for Ranni
>>732324041No great rune for miquella either
>>732324191Godhood worse
>>732324229Being the CEO of Fromsoftware is a prison.
>>732312862>I'm doing a "good guy" runYou're in the wrong fucking game for that, bub. Genocidal murderhobos are questionable "good guys."
>>732324191You never read the item that prevents the hug deaths? He shattered his rune.
Elden Ring was truly just shove as much shit in there the youtubers will figure it out.
>>732312394>Is killing Miquella the morally right thing to do? Yes>Are we the baddies?No, Miquella is
In the world they inhabit, it really is just might makes right. Miquella wasn't mighty enough.
>>732324504That anon probably means that there's no longer a reason to fight Miquella for his Great Rune since Miquella already discarded his Great Rune.
>>732312394Raping Miquella is the morally correct thing to do
>>732324653The Tarnished is attempting to become Elden Lord. Whether he possessed a time or not, Miquella would be a direct and immediate threat if he ascended. Your character is a mute barbarian zombie who wants to become God. Everyone wanted to be God.There's no right or wrong to any of that shit, it's just who wins and who loses. They were all pieces of shit.
>>732312394Yes. Miquella fails at everything he does. He is a living failure like Radahn who loses all his fights. He is never meant to succeed that’s why he must die the moment his age of compassion begins. He’s also a self mutilated and empty shell of himself there is nothing left of him. No memories. Trina literally begs you to mercy kill him.
>>732324653He said miquella didn't have a great rune.
>>732312394Miquella had noble intentions at the start but just like Marika used violence to ascend to godhood. He didn't realize casting aside ones humanity and immense bloodshed are hard requirements for supremacy in the golden order. His ascension and partnership with Radahn pretty much mirrors Marika and Godfrey and imply the same mistakes would just be repeated. He needed to die because he failed to see that it's not an issue of the person who's in charge, but that the entire system needs to be done away with.
>>732324838At the time you fight him, he doesn't
>>732313581>ansbachOne of the best NPCs in FromSoft history.
>>732325023based ymir
>>732324838The gist of the conversation is "if Miquella can still be fought despite lacking a Great Rune, why can't Ranni be fought when she's lacking a Great Rune?">>732324742The Tarnished can work for Ranni without any notion of becoming the lord of anything. It's only when Ranni hands them the Discarded Palace Key that becoming the lord of anything relating to Ranni looks like it might be possible. The Tarnished can also be the "Lord of Frenzied Flame" instead of the Elden Lord, so it's not like every action is centered around becoming Elden Lord no matter what. If it was, allying with Ranni at all before the key is introduced wouldn't be possible.
I think Miquella is a cool guy. He promises thousand year voyages and doesn't afraid of anything.
>>732325103Basically From Software hired sculptors to make a life size Ranni doll irl for their office. But the evening it was completed it went missing. All the security footage from the building was too damaged to see what actually happened, but a few blocks away an office building’s exterior caught footage. 3:23 AM It was Miyazaki with Ranni over his shoulder sprinting back to his house. Hope this explains everything.
so saint trina is to miquella like radagon is to marika right
>>732325376Yeah. He imagined her like she imagined him.
>>732325103Ranni is supposed to be the one to give Tarnished Man the bell and Torrent. She helped him so he helped her. Then she offers an opportunity to be a Consort to her instead. Lord of the Frenzied Flame is still a Lord.I guess you're right but at the end of the day the end goal is always some kind of power, so they're all just competing for being the winner. Morality has very little to do with any of their actions.
>>732325490>Morality has very little to do with any of their actions.It does for Ranni and Melina and Torrent.
>>732325376They both have the “other half” perks. Probably a shaman thing. But it’s unclear if they achieved it the same way. Radagon I was pretty convinced wasn’t originally apart of Marika. I can’t remember why i was convinced that he was his own separate being before being sucked into Marika. Trina seems like Miquella’s dream fanfic made real. Like she was born from his mind. I have no evidence to back that up.
>>732325376Same thing yeah. Google what Rebis means.
>>732325490It's entirely possible to never meet Ranni in Limgrave and to get the Spirit Calling Bell and Lone Wolf Spirit Ashes from the Roundtable Hold instead. Furthermore, Ranni providing those things still wouldn't mean the Tarnished, per a "only become Elden Lord" mentality, would ever actually help her in turn. The Tarnished can choose to work for Ranni on a whim and have to fight Radahn, get the Fingerslayer Blade, defeat a Baleful Shadow, etc. with no indication or implication of becoming her lord at all. Until Ranni gives out the Discarded Palace Key without warning, the Tarnished has no reason to believe that helping Ranni will make them become Elden Lord (or Lord of Night). Despite this, the Tarnished can still work for Ranni, so clearly there's no "only become Elden Lord" mentality in play regarding all interactions with Miquella. The boss fight is due to Miquella's choice for violence, not the Tarnished's choice for violence.
>>732320543Remember, the DS1 fags' champion doesn't even like Dark Souls and resents it deeply since he liked DeS only. He also likes and DMC knockoff too.
>>732323769Runni wants to give people freedom, Michelangelo wants to take it away completely
>>732325490Rena helps out the tarnished at the start but she was written to tell you to fuck off if Rogier doesn't send you to her.
>>732326258Ranni's actions destroyed the world, perhaps irreversably with deathrootShe's repeatedly left behind those she had no use for I'm not trusting her, ever
>>732324653>why would the Elden Lord want to bop a usurper?Hmmm...
>>732312394He was a homo and brainwashed people so yes killing him was objectively the correct thing to do.
>>732326348The Tarnished can help Ranni in her endeavors to seemingly topple the entire system, meaning that, to the Tarnished's knowledge, it would no longer be possible to become Elden Lord at all. Thus, the Tarnished is not constantly acting with the goal of becoming Elden Lord, they can choose another option.
>>732326453Ranni makes you her consort by the latter half of her quest.
>>732326301The world isn't destroyed. Marika breaking the Ring because of Radagon is the closest the world has to being destroyed.
>>732323806That was awesome
>>732326610As per ranni's own words, Marika breaking the ring was caused by godwyn's death. Also be serious, the world is pretty fucking destroyed, an entire region got nuked by a bioweapon, there are no functionning settlements, deathroot is spreading and infecting everything
>>732325685There really isn't much suggesting Radagon was a separate person. You might be one of the many that assumed that, because Marika wouldn't be in the capitol during Radagon's war with Liurnia that questions would be raised, but Radagon abandoning Rennala suddenly implies that Marika needed Radagon to return to the capitol, meaning she needed her body back.Elevating Radagon to Elden Lord was just a convenience for the post Godfrey situation and the self-cest twins where probably conceived to justify it (Remember, Radagon could just jack off into his hand and then turn back into Marika and finger herself).Now I have SOME really reaching schizo ideas that may tread into "they were separate people" but this based solely on the DLC. We never god a father for Messmer and his sister, but he has red hair.We can't say for certain if the "two half" thing is solely a divine thing, because obviously Devin and Darian are mortal men with a similar situation except reversed.However this schizo idea is that Radagon and Marika were two separate people at some point and Radagon was her consort. When Marika ascended like Miquella, she needed him to bring her back from the divine gate and became linked to him that way.In time they fused and Marika was able to assume a physical form through his body.This is similar to how the Divine Lion, which is just two guys in a costume, are actually possessed by a lion god granting them all those powers. Marika is the god and Radagon is her vessel, otherwise she just has a ghost form like God Miquella.But this is super duper schizo reaching territory, I more inclined to believe Radagon was either always a part of her or a tulpa containing all her former beliefs meant to keep her restrained. I also have another schizo theory that Messmer's dad could be a snake.
>>732326482The Tarnished has no reason to believe that Ranni would ever do that, or that such a thing is even hypothetically an option, until half of the quest is already done and Ranni has made headway toward destroying the entire system the Tarnished is supposedly trying to become the lord of.>>732327040Ranni thinks Marika shattered the Elden Ring out of grief, but she doesn't know Marika's full motives of creating a war to kill the Elden Beast either.
>>732312394Yes, it is morally right to stop a totalitarian misanthropeSalvation from Gods manipulating people won't come from Gods manipulating people
>>732327192but he's cute...
>>732327114>I also have another schizo theory that Messmer's dad could be a snake.Assuming that Messmer's daddy is a snake because he's all snakey would mean also assuming that Marika fucked a bug to get Malenia or a child to get Miquella.
>>732327040When you get further in the game you'll figure out the real reason (or not its kind of optional). Marika didn't care about her kids, you'll learn that in the dlc. You ever look in the mirror and not recognize the person you see? That happened to Marika.
>>732327692Nah, pimp. The problem is that I do.
>>732327040>Marika breaking the ring was caused by godwyn's death.No it wasnt
>>732327725Well thats your own issue but you get what I mean. Marika wises up to how much she was used at the 11th hour is all.
The only argument against Miquella is appeal to nature ("people always had free will so it's a good thing!") which is a logical fallacy opposing Miquella is basically accepting the existence of slavery, rape and torture because your animal instinct tells you that having free will to scream "niggerniggernigger" is more important
>>732327757morality is the only reason to go against miquella and its the only reason you need.
>>732327114Messmer has no father
>>732327757>slavery is bad>therefore everyone should be a slave to a heartless god
>>732327790None that matters. He proves the red hair thing was always a cope but thats about it.
>>732327806>heartlessimagine falling for trina propaganda
>>732327757The argument against Miquella is that he's a misanthrope using the same kind of coercion and manipulation Marika and the Fingers did, and implementing an Order that enforces the same centrality of Godhodd into the lives and deaths of people as the Golden Order itself. This is completely at odds with any kind of ending you can choose.
>>732327838>None that mattersYes it doesMarika generates her own children through blooming as process of her runic manipulation.Messmer is cursed with the Dark obtained by the Deaths of Marika's kin
>>732327871Every ending except the true ending follows the same route.
>>732327935kek
>>732327946No, any kind of ending questions the centrality of Godhood and in no ending Fate is bound to the blessings of any God
>>732327946>the true endingyou mean frenzied flame right
>>732327976Low IQ retard
>>732327989And then installs a new god. They all create the same feedback system the tree had instead of allowing a natural life and death cycle. Only the true ending frees people from the hellscape.
>>732328015>And then installs a new god.Wrong. Not going to discuss your nonsensical headcanon.No ending results in any kind of God, which you clearly have no clue of what that is
>>732328015There's no "true ending". All endings are equally canonical
Miquella mind raped Mohg, my favorite demigod, so yeah killing him was just.
>>732328112>miquella is in the tree>mohg comes and grabs him>that's miquella's fault???
>>732327846What is someone without love?
>>732328202You know the guy has mind control powers right?
>>732328258You know he needs to touch you to mind control you right?He couldn't have done it if mohg hadn't sought him out in the first place
>>732312394>Is killing Miquella the morally right thing to do?if you value free will over determinism, then yesand if you value determinism, then Goldmask is the better option, so it's still yes
>>732328258A lot of people forget he can project that across the world like he does.
>>732328230a god
>>732328012Closer to St. Trina. Malenia's accidental parthenogenesis meant that her kids could only be made from her own material, so they embodied portions of herself cut off from the original. Marika had children with other figures (even if one was her male clone), so the kids were novel people. Even if Malenia and Miquella became inbreeding metaphors.
>>732328258There's no question Miquella roofied Mohg, however as far as I know it's not established if it was>Mohg minding his own business slurping some blood with ma boi Ansbach, Miquella hits him with schizo charm beam from inside a dream or some other esoteric horseshit, brainwashed Mohg kicks in the door to the Haligtree and kidnaps Miquella while a confused as fuck bunch of Blood Knights are wondering what the fuck is happeningOr>Mohg learns that Miquella, (a Great Rune holder), is both alone and unguarded as Malaria's army is off getting the shit kicked out of it by Radhan>But when he reaches him and goes to steal the Rune, gets CHARMED.com'd and instead brings Miquella's body back home and becomes obsessed with him>Blood knights are wondering what the fuck is going on, but anyone who knows of Miquella's abilities would catch on quicklyTo me, 2 seems more likely HOWEVER if we assume that using Mohg really was the 5000 iq plan all along then that would imply that Mohg was already brainwashed before Malaria ever left to go fight Radhan.
>>732328476lol
>>732328301>You know [HEADCANON]There's Miquellan albinaurics all over Mohgwyn Palace, including one using his incantations right at the portal. Miquella infiltrated the Palace>>732328406>Closer to St. Trina. Wrong, it's like Messmer and Melina, and Melina claims she never had a real mother and was born at the foot of the Erdtree (clearly when it sprouted).Messmer's Dark is the result of Marika's sins, rancorous death. Messmer accepted to become the target of cursing hexes.Melina also acts as kindling Maiden because of the Darkness within her, that fuels the Flame and allows to burn runes. Burning runes is how you gain levels.
>>732328649Or they could have gone on a pilgrimage to his corpse after he was kidnapped from the tree. You have no fucking way of knowing why they're here. And if miquella could radiowave mindcontrol mohg, why didn't he just radiowave mindcontrol radahn instead of having malenia nuke caelid and having to go through that mess with mohg in the first place?
>>732328776No one knows where he is thats why his own soldiers are suicide bombing in despair. Play the game if you want to talk with us about it.
>>732328820>has no rebuttal for the argument so goes with a weak "y-you didn't play the game!"I accept your concession lil bro
>>732312394I don't know but I need josou seme with Miquella
>>732312394I don't careThey put a boss in front of me I kill it
>>732328476Miquella's entire shadowlands conspiracy was a backup plan. He likely originally intended to ascend to godhood using the haligtree (hence the cocoons) but ultimately Mohg came across him whether it be for the rune or for a consort.The entire plot of the DLC is too chaotic and complex for him to have planned it but by bit down to mind hacking Mohg.
>>732328776Beware, you're arguing with the sun realm poster.
>>732328776The blood splatters around the way gate imply Mohg was kidnapping Albi's for his DYNASTY
>>732330038the whole game is being played like a chess game where you modify your gameplan after prep. Nobodies plan was going according to plan by the time the tarnished shows up. Everyone is on plan F that they never planned on actually using.
>>732312394>Is killing Miquella the morally right thing to do?Insofar as you cannot be 100% sure Miquella won't just kill you, yes. >Are we the baddies?Matters infinitely less.
>>732312862He wants to make it so the gods can't tamper with the Elden Ring (the laws of the nature), so that they can't pull a women moment and do retarded shit like removing the concept of death from the world.
>>732312394Think of him like an idol. His plan is to become everyone's oshi. I hope this grants you the context you need to defeat him.
>>732330791That sounds like a really bad idea. Wasn't the twinbird of death immolating the dead so bodies and souls would be destroyed before Marika stepped in?
>>732330832Yes. Marika's religion wasn't better but Goldmask was completely retarded.
>>732328476I'm pretty sure the vessel didn't HAVE to be Mogh, but it turned out to be him because his plans for Godwyn and Malenia failed. He wanted to bring Godwyn back to life and thus merging Godwyn and Radahn together would have resulted in the ultimate consort. He failed because the Eclipse shit was too esoteric and weird. He turned to Malenia and tried to cure her Scarlet Rot so he could use her as the vessel, but he never completed the Unalloyed Needle and the Haligtree failed to bring good enough results in curing the sick, thus Malenia was out as a consort (no buff futa Malenia-Radahn). Thus, he used Mohg because Mohg is the only other sentient faggot beneath the earth and everyone else was too busy killing each other on the surface.
>>732330832The death birds offer eternal life though in their wings. Twin Birds system is capitalist death, Marika went commie.
>>732330832Death and rebirth have existed long before the Erdtree, and will exist after it's gone in every ending except Frenzy.>Souls destroyedI don't think "releasing vengeful spirits" counts as a destroyed soul. If anything, that implies that people who are especially bitter about death don't move on to the natural course of death, which is also mentioned multiple times.If anything, unbinding Destined Death is arguably a good thing even for the Erdtree since it didn't produce seeds and minor erdtrees until the Shattering and the tree knew it was finally nearing it's end, in a thousand years there could be an entire continent spanning forest of full size Erdtrees that actually have a proper life cycle instead of just the one eternal one and it's rotting shadow.
>>732330832Bots triggered lol
>>732312394>morally right thing to do?whoever's strongest decides the moralityeveryone but the elden lord is bad
I don't know because I never had any idea what was going on in that dlc
>>732331513A crown is warranted by strength.t. Literally Who
>>732330832The Issue with Marika's Order was that it was fundamentally untenable as she tried to excise anything related to suffering or death for her chosen people.This didn't work because even the Edrtree as an actual living object granting blessings ran out of power and became just an object of faith. Add on top that you cannot get rid of negative elements in their entirety and suppressing them only let them fester, and you get a scenario where its better to integrate all aspects of existence under a impartial rule than let the lack of proper death let things fester, even if it involves the Deathbirds.
