Lads, how do we fix the open world mechanic
Or maybe just drop level scaling. Elden Ring did it right.
>>732662825I see an abstract Samus on the right
it's ok if early players can access areas they aren't ready for as long as they know what they are getting in to
>>732663097Yes but the dev can't guarantee they'll know what they're getting intoWhat if they enter a hard area without knowing and have a bad timeThey could refund the game and leave a bad reviewEvery area must be made with the understanding that a first-time player might be coming there to learn the game
>>732663001>Elden Ring did it right.>literally the worst souls game for making buildsNo they still failed at the end of the day, because you can just get 75% of whatever build you want to make in under five hours, and without weapon durability you'll never find yourself having a moment where you have to switch weapons mid-fight.Also you're brown so your opinion is inherently worthless.
>>732663001No they fucking didntIm still stuck with the starting battle axe and i dont want to check a wiki to find out where to find all the different stones to level up another weapon to +15Elden ring flubbed so hard.
>>732662825Different zones should have content for differently powered characters. I hate how wolves in zone 1 are pathetically weak, but wolves in zone 12 are super beings by comparison, despite there being very little to tell them apart at a glance. Powerful monsters should look powerful. As they wander around, they should kill weaker enemies to leave players with no doubt as to what they should avoid. WoW did something like that with sons of arugal, the t-rexes in un'goro, etc.
>make up whatever you want and put it into an image format>post shit thread on /v/>"prove my made up scenario wrong"No
>>732662825Right is basically elden ring.
>>732662825Structured open world duhShit in reality I dont think any game is TRULY "open world" anyway. Stuff like GTA blocks you from certain areas before you hit a plot point.
>>732663001Every boss in Elden Ring either dies in 2 hits or requires 2000 hits.
>>732662825Like this.
>>732663592>>literally the worst souls game for making buildsYoure fucking crazy. Its troublesome and someone might get unlucky but it has WAY more build variety and cool interactions>HAVE to switch weapons mid fightYou dont 'have' to do it in any souls game, and not like durability was relevant in any game other than ds2. And DS2 was by far the one with the best incentive to have a vast arsenal.. for completely different reasons other than durabilityI switched simply because it was worth it. I had this halberd with black flame tornado, a greathammer with busted guard counters and a nice greatsword with flaming strike. My next playthrough will switch across antspur rapier with aidsmaxxing and another thrusting sword with better bleed & a dodge ash
>>732662825>EVERYTHING HAS TO BENot it doesn't, you can have stronger enemies in one place and that alone will prevent the player from going there on their own.
>>732666146How would players in left know whether or not they are supposed to be in an area?
Even in Fallout 4, the more down you go in the map the stronger the enemies, this shit was solved decades ago.
>>732663592>can just get 75% of whatever build you want to make in under five hours, outright falseA third of the builds are completed in an instant, another third take one-two dozen hours and the other third is at the dlc after 99 hours. it really depends
>>732666231>it has WAY more build variety and cool interactionsIt isn't as bad as Ds3 but about 75% of weapons in ER are useless, as well as 90% of the magic.
>>732663337Then they’ll get fucked and all the Chad gamers will mock them for being a little BITCH.
>>732666285By the amount of teeth he has after each fight.
It doesn't matter, every game is a dogshit microtransaction mall designed by committee and coded by pajeets.
Turning this into a problem to be solved instead of it just being different games offering different things for different tastes is killing the fun in vidya.
>>732662825make lower-level enemies run away from higher-level ones so if you see something you've struggled to beat before run away in fear you know you're in troublehave big fights occur in the distance and leave evidence of what damage types were used and what kind of enemy did ithave npcs signal to each other to warn when a threat is headed their waytl;dr environmental storytelling
Structured maps that slowly become open as you unlock new areas.
>dude Elden Ring is so epicYou are a child and the game is the definition of the left picture. Easy.
>>732666231>build varietyThat's not what I'm talking about here, and it's worthless bringing such a thing up because every new game they make will always have more content than the last. Regardless, my issue is that the builds are too easy to get because of the open world gimmick, which means anybody can get any build up and running without much difficulty at all, and unlike the other games, you can pretty much remove most of the early grinding by doing very few things.>You dont 'have' to do itTrue. That was kind of a stupid point in my part.
>>732662825Natural obstacles, like deserts, sea, rivers, mountains, snowy plains, caves, forests, which require certain gimmicks.
>>732666146Xenoblade X
>>732666319Admittedly, I didn't play the dlc so I can't really speak much on the new stuff they've added into the game, but going off what I experienced in the base game, it was really, really fucking easy to get amazing gear early and not have to worry about the early game grind, level up just enough to be able to grab the necessary gear for a build and be set for the majority of the game, which I won't deny is possible on the other games but I find it to be accentuated in this because of how the open world makes everything so easy to do.
>>732663001It didn't do anything right.
>>732666878Yes but then Casual Player X goes to the desert area, can't cross, and refunds the game with a poor review "Couldn't make it past the desert area after starting, wtf???"So all the areas need to be accessible from the start.
>>732666146>In the field fighting a level 1 piglet to get my bearings>Take two steps to the left after the fight>Get crushed into paste by a level 89 Rape God of Jeigiaennah fuck that
>>732663592>weapon durabilityNobody likes that and it wasn't a problem in any game other than 2. What a weird take.
>>732662825If your open world game isn't randomizer friendly then you need to go back to the drawing board and fix it. Simple
>>732666285Same way I knew I fucked up in WOW when I went to an area I shouldn't have been in.No levels, just skulls.
>>732667525And why is filtering retards bad again?
>>732664740you can tell them apart by the different colorwolfcave wolfzombie wolffrost wolfhell wolfadamantine wolfFenrir, Devourer of Gods
>>732667705There are ZERO open world games that are randomizer friendly
you do it the way the old games did. you go in the area with the high level enemies you get wrecked and learn not to go there till you level up or get better shit. like we knew not to cross bridges in dragon warrior until we had gotten the best gear in the current town.
>>732667651What are you, retarded? Obviously Rape God of Jeigiaen would be situated in his Rape Tower situated in the Rape Lands, denoted by the charred and barren rape crag, with his watchful Rape Guard and roving bands of Rape Bandits prowling the pathways throughout the region. It'd at least be at a slightly higher elevation.God, you're retarded.
>>732667525>little timmy crosses the bridge and dies to a magician>mommy takes dragon warrior back to toys r us or kmart or hillsdid this ever happen back in the day?
>>732667698I might be the only person who has ever liked it, but I really did think it was a good way of punishing a player for being an idiot (like I was on my first playthrough), but seriously, I actually think that adding weapon durability to elden ring would rape retarded newfags for picking meta weapons without any forethought put into that decision.Not that it's ever been an issue, using an item every once in a full moon or just switching weapons wasn't that fun but it at least made me have to think about what I should be speccing into instead of the borefest that was elden ring's "Best Weapon™ has x, y, and z stats" that I got super early on and knew I had to spec into those stats anyway.
>>732662825This image illustrates pretty well why Link To The Past (right side) is better than Link Between Worlds (left side)
>>732662825The best open worlds are not actually true open worlds. They have linearity of some sort, but mask it well. Be it linear point-to-point events or goals you can just do out of order or set content with fuzzy guidelines of how to do it.The problem with modern open world isn't necessarily this though. It's just too much content (usually filler content) and no care for playtesting. Cinematics are the reward, rather than the satisfaction of finding a new area/item itself. You are punished for going to an area that doesn't lead to the next cinematic/dialogue event, even though you technically can. And so on.
>>732667651what you described is a good thing. It should be your choice to risk it against enemies you aren't ready for yet.
>>732665857I can sequence break it, so none of that balancing matters.
>>732666352Dark Souls 2 solved this by having a lot of movesets within class so even if a weapon was worse with some respects it might have had a moveset that you really liked so you wanted to make it work anyway. Elden Ring barely has any moveset differentiation within a class so you just use the best number for your build. It at least tends to give every build a weapon in most classes like Dark Souls 2.
>>732667651>see tiny pig >one hit kills it>npc in the area talk about how fun it is to hunt pigs that even kids do it.>takes 2 steps>ground turns blood red>meet npc >tells him how this land is corrupted and evils walk it. Only a strong warrior could hope to survive.>sees large pig golem with a 15 inch soft dick covered in spikes>doesn't run, hits it >loses 1% of its hp>doesn't run still>gets hit, lose 75% hp>still doesn't run>gets grabbed>character gets fucked to death >respawns >goes back to pig golem>keeps getting raped >comes to 4chan and cries.
>>732669585Weapon Arts should have been locked to specific weapons as a form of balance, but of course they needed something to fill the empty open world with so they turned them into collectibles.
>>732663001>Drop level scaling>Game stops being open world since there is a clear direct path to follow
>>732669619thanks doc
>>732662825It seems you're shitting on BOTW's format like there's something wrong with it, without describing what is wrong with it.Also "open world" and "structured" are not at all mutually exclusive concepts. Also also what the FUCK is this captcha, Hiro.
>poojeet>fromdroneIt's like pottery, it rhymes.
>>732669709soul
Open evolving world. You start off in a not too big open area and there is things to do, and depending on which things are done the world swaps out for an entirely new biome based on your enviromental impact from the missions
>>732669824It's the beginning of a game everywhere and then just stops
leveling as a concept should completely be done away with but that's a discussion nobody is ready for
>>732668442Mount Coronet, led to a parent letter campaign in Japan. Game Freak still have PTSD from the incident and refer back to it in 90% of their interviews about gameplay design.
>>732670035Most games still have some form of "characters strength/skills go up because of number." The only difference with "levels" is the player is able to see the number. So you're not going to be getting rid of it.>>732668442I had that exact experience. But this idea of taking the game back was completely foreign to me. Instead I just let it sit for years and came back to it when I was older. And beat it.
>>732669619Kek made me laugh, doc
>>732670035Progression is fun and RPG mechanics are a more clear feedback system for normies. In the 90s adding RPG mechanics was viewed as casualizing your game.
>>732662825Detail detail detail add detailGive players interesting shit to do
get rid of leveling system and get the equipment do the job for you, the more rare the equipment the strongest you are, that is what botw did for me, of course that still nintendo so ofcuerse you can beat a boss with a stick in there. Also, fuck empty open world
Everyone in this thread is illiterateThe OP image is about GAMEPLAY AND NARRATIVE COMPLEXITY i.e. not difficultyWhen you play the final level of a linear game the developers know exactly which mechanics you've encountered and which story beats you've seen, that way the final challenge can be a final test culmination and story climax that pays off the whole game In every single example ITT the GAMEPLAY AND NARRATIVE COMPLEXITY is the same throughout the game, there is never a case where you can wander into an encounter for which you literally don't have the tools to deal with, or a story beat that you're not prepared for Consider the Mirror Shield in Zelda games, the final dungeons are designed around KNOWING FOR A FACT that the player has it and knows how to use it, you can't do anything do advance through them without it, good games will layer mechanic over mechanic and have the final challenge test you on everything at once, and seem impossible to a first time player but come naturally to someone who's played through the natural course of the game There's no such complexity progression in open world games, the encounters you face in the first 15 minutes of the game will have the same minimal mechanical requirements as the final challenges, just with more tedium and numbers, meaning the payoff is that of a wet fart and the game design is fucking shit
>>732669619Thanks doc
open world is fundamentally broken because you can accidentally sabotage your enjoyment just by going the wrong way. to give the simplest example: imagine there are two weapons right near the starting location but in opposite directions. one is a sword and the other is a bow. you're a sword guy but without realizing it you went in the bow direction. you spend hours wandering around the map with your bow that you aren't really enjoying before finally looping around back and finding the sword. you think "fuck why couldn't I have found this 20 hours ago?"
>>732662825You segment the open world into unfolding layers which become accessible through player evolution. For instance there is some second region, but in order to access it you have to acquire 3 of the 5 attainable abilities in the first region and use them in combination to access the second region. Or the new regions are just unlocked through progression of story like in Jak 2 and 3.
>>732671325This is why the best "open world" games are not actually true open worlds. And they guide the player. Even BotW does this. Like 90% of people end up going the same direction, north to Kakariko Village and then to Zora's Domain. Because the valley leads in that direction. Though of course, going to Zora's Domain that early is the harder route so it's kind of funny Nintendo did this. But the point is, there's some guidance.True open worlds with no guidance tend to be shit, yes.
>>732669619wtf I love open world games now
