What happened for people to start downplaying any fun in games not caused by gameplayFor example Plants vs Zombies is a solid tower defense game, but most of its fun comes from the wacky premise, fun visuals, funny writing, memorable music etc, but people would have you believe it would be more fun if you stripped out all of that and instead gave it a parry mechanic
>Plants vs Zombies is a solid tower defense game, but most of its fun comes from the wacky premise, fun visuals, funny writing, memorable musicNo it comes from the fact that it is an extremely simple, quick and easy to learn and varied game with variety in gameplay. If it released as a fully stripped down version without any story, visuals or music people would have still played it because gameplay is what matters. Gameplay makes the fun. If you already can't play the game properly then nothing will be fun about it.
>>732763285This is wrong though, PvZ was preceded by thousands of tower defense games that had better gameplay but much worse everything else, and were unknown as a result
>>732763113Left is correct about story depending on what you mean by it. A game can be carried by side characters visuals and music with mediocre gameplay.
you are missing the pointit being that everything is complementary to gameplay at the end of the daylike sure pvz has good visuals and sound work but if the gameplay was dogshit no one would remember the gameand the other way around does not necessarily apply, games with minimal/dogshit assets can be carried solely by being fun to play, like how rogue spawned a whole genre despite being an ascii game that looks like shit, or how tetris is just a bunch of moving squares
>>732763365>PvZ was preceded by thousands of tower defense games that had better gameplay but much worse everything elseBut it wasn't. Before PvZ they were eith flashgames so already limited in reach or maps for StarCraft and WarCraft 3. It literally made the blueprint for the genre besides maybe Balloons Tower Defense which is again another game with impeccable gameplay in a simple core loop.
>>732763501Yeah whoever heard of a bad story tanking a game's reputation before they even had the chance of trying it out
>>732763564>Before PvZ they were eith flashgames so already limited in reach or maps for StarCraft and WarCraft 3If they were good it wouldn't be a problem, a Warcraft map spawned an entire genre, and all the successful game spinoffs in that genre also copied the theming, visuals etc, in fact HOTS had the best gameplay out of all of them but still failed
It's just my preference when it comes to games. I don't play phone games, and if the game has cutscenes I generally skip them.The last time I played a "story" game, it was BG3.Some games have the story take the front seat, like a naughty dog game, and gameplay is more of an afterthought.There isn't anything wrong with liking these types of games, but personally when it comes to stories I'd prefer a good show/movie/book. The games I personally like are those with good gameplay loops. CS2, dota, Elden Ring, rocket league, etc. I still boot up Mario 64 from time to time. There's no story, the visuals are grotesque by today's standards, but the gameplay loop is satisfying so I keep playing it. It's enjoyable to "master" the mechanics and see myself improve.
>>732763648the gameplay was also dogshitalso the story isn't what tanked this game's reputation, it's that it looks like slop in every measurable metric, including its gameplay and story
>>732763113Left is correct
>>732763851>the gameplay was also dogshitNot that anyone would know, because they didn't play it
>>732763851Gameplay was fine, it had a ton of spells, great enemy variety and traversal was fun. I'd say gameplay wise it's a better version of Hogwarts, it's the same type of open world spell casting game but less shit.
>>732763113Gameplay and music matter the most. Then visuals, then story.Balatro has no story but it’s fun and stylish enough to be a huge success.
>>732763113left is for high iq individuals, right is for midwit pseuds. most real gamerchads mute the music and play something more suitable for good taste like a fine sonata anyways
>>732763948plenty of goty games like witcher 3 and e33 show that gameplay in the end doesn't actually matter that much.
>>732764293>high iq individualsAnything most of /v/ agrees on is not for high iq individuals
>>732764201And it would objectively be more fun with some sort of well written narrative, since Act 1 of Inscryption is more fun despite having simpler gameplay
>>732763113I don't look for the same things in every game I play. Some I play more for the story but when the gameplay is good enough it can be just a bonus.
>>732763113It's more like>Gameplay: 80%>Music: 15%>Visuals: 5%>Story: who cares
>>732764374You’re not wrong. I liked Balatro, but I’d describe it as flavorless. Inscryption was more fun.
>>732763113>first game comes out>everyone criticizes the gameplay>the AI doesn't work like they said it would! Look at this silly animation!>the friendly AI is also bad!>Matthewmatosis said the AI feels like missing the dart board from the game!>also look at the generic cover shooter environments!>generic generic generic waaaaahhhh>but the story is alright>second game comes out>fixes the AI, now works fully>vastly expands the combat>genuinely one of the best playing games in its genre>the internet can't shut the fuck up about how upset the story makes themIt's tough being a gameplay chad surrounded by retarded faggot contrarians.
>>732763113The game taking away my control is anything but "fun"
>>732763113I always wanted the play Garden Warfare 1 and 2 but by the time I got around to them, they were dead :,(
>>732764617No one mentioned that schizo
>>732764542>fixes the AIExplain how. How smart are the enemies at trapping the player and killing them
>>732764669*to play
>>732764741So you think games that have cutscenes are all shit then
>>732763564>Before PvZ they were eith flashgames so already limitedwhat are you even babbling about. plants vs zombies was stripped down tower defense. no pathing, only lanes, which is the one and only reason its notable, as the lack of pathing is a massive departure from the genre.
>>732763113If gameplay isn’t the most important part of a game to you, you are a casual, secondary or a tourist.
>>732764964Yes its stripped down and removed the stuff that hindered simple and enjoyable gameplay.
>>732763113The tone. Just ALL OF THE WHOLE writing. Characters, dialogue, the story. Everything. That is literally the only dealbreaker that i have when it comes to any form of entertainment is the tone. I just don't enjoy wholesome stories. I like stories that are full of struggling, fighting for survival, do-or-die prevailing against the odds, making great sacrifices, characters that face certain death with a smile on their face. I don't mind the occasional light hearted moment but 90% of the story should be dark and grim with nothing but desperation fueling the cast of characters.
>>732765024So Spyro is a better 3D platformer than Mario 64? It removed the stupid stuff that hindered simple and enjoyable gameplay
>>732765115No because Spyro didn't contribute anything to 3D platformers.
>>732765115Mario 64 was never good
>>732765024it removed the primary strategy element.
>>732765205It contributed improvement with far better level design and character movement and actual challenge.
>>732765205neither did plants vs zombies.
/v/ just pretends gameplay is king, they don't actually believe it. Anons love games for other aspects besides gameplay and treat the game as a holistic experience. Thing is this is /v/ - videogames, ergo gameplay being good is the most "objective" measurement of quality. Even though most anons can't even articulate what makes good gameplay and will sputter into total non-sense if you dissect actual gameplay systems of a game they consider to have good gameplay.Really its just a last resort to win an argument. Hate a game for subjective reasons and you are getting dunked on by its fans? Just post something along the lines of "muh gameplay" then refuse to elaborate while spamming about it being bad. Continue until bump (you win if the thread archives before the other guys can reply).
>>732765248It simplified lanes and removed unnecessary baggage for a genre that was already dead by that point.>>732765264God you must be an insufferable NPC. Spyro has never been and never will be good. Its failed series that never added anything of worth to society. Any other opinion is faggot furries inserting their cringe fetish into it.>>732765304Yeah but it had good gameplay. Which none of the Spyro games ever had. Really that simple when you understand that gameplay is king.
>>732764541Balatro is effectively modern solitaire. A good way to kill time when waiting on a train or something, but not a game I would think "Yeah tonight I'm going to sit down and play some Balatro." And that's fine, not every game needs to be amazing, Balatro does well because it's easy to pick up and play for a bit.
>>732765527This is the schizo, engage at your own risk
>>732765527anon, take a step back and reflect upon this exchange>pvz good cuz simpler than predecessors>what about platformer that was simpler than predecessors>no, that game bad because simpler than predecessorsI get that you liked the game because you played it as a child, of course.
>>732765527>Spyro has never been and never will be goodBoring non-opinion.
>>732765813>I will add things to what you said to make up my own opinion and call you stupid for itUsual NPC behavior. Never sad Spyro is worse because it made things simpler. Its just bad. Simple as. Has nothing to do with it being simpler. Bad is an independant statement. It persists as the overall definition of what all Spyro games are. Bad. PvZ is good because it took a dead genre of games. Changed it by simplfying a staple mechanic and adding variations that added depth to it.>>732765851Sorry have I stepped on your little feelings furry faggot? Go back to riding bad dragon dildos in your diaper. This is a board about video games.
>>732766068self-awareness check: fail
>>732766068Embodiment of Dunning-Kruger.
>rightfully insult furries for being creeps>they flood the thread to insult meAs usual. I won. Done with the thread.
>>732763113delete visuals and give one 10% to music and the other 10% to gameplay and you'd be correct
>>732766264at least its real in your mind
>>732765213Zoomer take.
>>732764343Those games won their GOTY awards from journalists. You know what journalists hate the most.
>>732766264Thanks for conceding. Spyro remains a tremendous achievement for the 3D action platformer genre due to its superior level design and fine tuned mechanics.
>>732763113Right is more correct but gameplay has to be at like 50% or 60% and the others shrunk accordingly. Good gameplay is the core entry point but the other elements are what gives a game a lasting impression.
>>732763113Both of these graphs can be correct, depending on the type of game. Autists just think they seem like a hardcore, purist gamer by only liking gameplay, partially because big companies pushed a lot of games that focused on the visuals and story above gameplay to bring in normies to the hobby at the expense of gamers.
Ok fagsWhich is better, monster hunter freedom unite, or monster hunter wilds
>>732765485The vast VAST majority of people place visuals above all else. Every person that cares about "immersion", every person that thinks action games are about doing combos, anyone that plays jrpgs, these people don't care about gameplay, they only care about the visuals.
>>732766491Technically better graphics doesn't always mean "better graphics", the quality of the art matters.
>>732763113It's a performative way to show that you don't support "movie games", mostly. And over the years, "movie game" has shifted from meaning a movie game to anything with a cutscene in any capacity.>but that's what a movie game is!Complaining about every game for the same reasons to make the complaints sound unreasonable is a form of shilling just as much as defending a game.
>>732766498>anyone that plays jrpgsOh fuck off faggot.
>>732766498those are people who don't like video games.
>>732763113>wacky premise, fun visuals, funny writingHello fellow c-suit retard
>>732766342American millennial take
>>732763365PvZ was pushed by massive marketing. It's popular for the same reason bejeweld is more popular than Tetris. Not because it's a better game, but because it's easy, accessible and has polished presentation.
>>732767003So it's like a Nintendo game?
>>732766670Apply your logic to any other medium, who here likes the medium and who doesn't>the person that thinks all animated media is simply about the animation and that anything else like the story, writing, music, backgrounds are all superfluous >the person that thinks animated media is about the whole product and that while the animation is important, how the whole thing comes together is more important, and that animation alone can't sustain a quality animated movie/cartoon/anime >the person that thinks all books are simply about the writing and that anything else like the story, characters, themes are all superfluous >the person that thinks books are about the whole product and that while the writing is important, how the whole thing comes together is more important, and that writing alone can't sustain a quality book >the person that thinks all movies are simply about the moving pictures and that anything else like the story, writing, music, acting are all superfluous >the person that thinks movies are about the whole products and that while the cinematography is important, how the whole thing comes together is more important, and that cinematography alone can't sustain a quality movie
>>732767370you're comparing techniques to convey a story to the primary defining factor of video games. The primary defining factor of film is visuals. The primary defining factor of music is sound. The primary defining factor of video games is gameplay. A film can work without music/sound, a song can work without visuals, but a video game without gameplay simply is not a video game.
>>732767589What makes animation, books, and movies "techniques of conveying a story">but a video game without gameplay simply is not a video game.No one mentioned removing the gameplay, what the fuck are you arguing against
>>732767673>What makes animation, books, and movies "techniques of conveying a story">what makes [thing] "[definition of thing]"
>>732767589I think you're viewing OP's point backwards, it's not that we should consider something without gameplay to be a game, it's that gameplay being essential doesn't mean gameplay is the sole point from which all the enjoyment in any game flows.
>>732767783https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Circular_reasoning
Graphics are absolutely useless if there's no gameplay. Pic related is one of the best looking games ever made but in 2026 it's completely forgotten. It was just an interactive movie that you could beat in one sitting. Now what do you do with it? It's junk.
>>732767839>definitions are circular reasoning
>>732767902see >>732767839
>>732767934no one is trolled bro. at best i just feel sorry for you.
>>732767883It did have one of the coolest steampunk guns you can think of with the thermite rifle, but it was just window dressing dor a bland cover shooterI even remember trading it in after i was done with it and the guy at cex literally chuckled and said i wouldn't get much for it
>>732763113kys with your bait postit's the cohesion of the elements supplementing gameplay that makes games truly great. PvZ wouldn't be fun if it didn't look like that but also if the game played like shit. The concept in itself is enjoyable with the right coat of paintthis is also why I never understood people who look at a game and think "oh no, it's <game> clone"if <game> is good then it's a GOOD thing to have derivatives in a different coat of paint
>>732768331>PvZ wouldn't be fun if it didn't look like that but also if the game played like shitNo one is arguing this, why are there so many pro-gameplay schizo posters imagining arguments no one made
>>732768384the assertion that gameplay is not very important in a video game is asserting it can be removed and still be a video game.you'd need an IQ south of 90 to not be able to map this concept.
>>732768462Literally no one is arguing this, did you forget your meds
>>732763285me when i make shit up for the sake of an internet argument
>>732766498TRVKEespecially turn based jrpg fans. those same people will then laugh at moviegames kekthis should have been fpbp
>>732768557Its an extrapolation of the argument, something you need an IQ over 90 to be able to do. If x + y = z, then z - x = y, so to speak.
>>732768727It's not, you're literally imagining things in your head to get mad about
I have no idea what the story of any Dark Souls game is and I love it.
>>732768995You talk like a fag, and your shit's all retarded
>>732768881you're the one who seems mad that people are applying the transverse property to your inane assertions, thus revealing them to be inane.
>>732769094https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_man
>>732769070fags are great at detecting other fags
>>732769150oh god, you're the guy who thinks pointing out that axioms are axioms is circular reasoning.
aurora is the bet 4x thoughtever
>>732769202https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ad_hominem
>>732769262Thanks for confirming it.
>>732769320
>>732769478>>732768046
Nah it's more 60% gameplay and 40% presentation
>>732768331>it's a GOOD thing to have derivatives in a different coat of paintThere's enough slop as is.
>>732763113Galaga, pacman, and donkey Kong didn't have any of that shit and were fun. You know what they did have? They had fun gameplay, retard
>>732768462Not op but what are vn's alex
>>732771131its right there in the name. visual novels. not video games.
a video game should be 50% video 50% game
>>732771290>Kamidori alchemy master isn't a video game because its a vn. Despite having an entire video game inside of it where you build run and maintain an alchemy store.You're silly anon
>>732771642you should've gone with something like sengoku rance, where the gameplay outshines the "visual novel" so completely that people play it and ignore the porn.
>>732770772And they would've been more fun if they had them
"Gameplay is king" is virtue signaling for contrarians
>>732763113I choose left.
>>732763113Cutscenes are anti-fun
>>732771642That’s like saying cutscenes are video games
>>732774369Setting aside how that post is complete gibberish, contrarianism isn’t real. It’s an external destination to disregard opinions you don’t hold as existing solely to upset (you).
The gameplay determines most if not all of the fun from a game, but it needs the accompanying story, music and visuals to be reasonably good too, its basically a requirement while it being minimal.
>>732763113I'm somewhere in the middle. For me it's close to picrel. However, story isn't like the rest of a game's attributes. If I'm NOT interested in a game's story/characters/premise, I likely will never play it. Regardless of everything else the game has to offer. But assuming I'm interested enough to try it, because of the story/characters/premise. The story doesn't actually contribute that much to my enjoyment of the game.
reminder: this is only a “debate” at all because of the existence of people who not only wouldn’t grow up with arcades, they’d never know them at all. As they’d only ever know games as a service “games” or worse. Such people have never and will never walk into a room lit only by dozens of arcade cabinet screens running demo-loops showing gameplay, as the sole purpose is to get (you) to throw quarters into slots to be able to do what was on screen. The sole form of video game advertising they’d know are “cinematic trailers,” and bullshots, all desperate to hide how the gameplay is bog standard shit every other video game does, or worse.
>>732775686You have ADHD
>>732777647>designing games around eating quarters.. GUDThis nigga wants movies to go back to 60 second Kinetoscope loops that cost a cent to watch and thinks he's enlightened
>>732778578designing games to instantly attract interest and therefore patronage is what (you) have never and will never know.
>>732763113
>>732779302You have ADHD
>>732780437You're defending games that have nothing worth showing, gameplay wise, and use secondary characteristics to attract players.
>>732763113This is the kind of person that prefers right.
>>732781924*left
>>732777647You tell em mork
>>732781215Games are more than passing fancies
