When did you start being yourself, and accept that Rudy Knight is the most likely option?
why does nobody talk about this scenethe sphinx mentions it tooi doubt its the search for dess because toriel throws water on her dad in response
>>733036698Toriel is just being a bitch as always
>>733035963this is now a MIKE thread
>>733037168The Mikefag humiliation ritual we got in Chapter 4 was so fucking good.
>>733036698she thinks hes sctizo because he tried to tell abt dark worlds
>>733037776Who is your favorite Mike?
>>733038045Green nigga, of course. I would like him outside of the context of Mikes.Not in a gay way, though.
>>733038596new theory guys:is anon a homossexual?will toby subvert this?
what are some moments you acted like battat?
>what...>what the HELL do you want from me...?the sans fotm is cringe as fuck but this line is kino on a completely blunt sans
>>733039274what are you talking about?
>>733036698>why does nobody talk about this sceneThere are a lot of autists here who failed the social skill check to follow the conversationToriel and Rudy are close even after everything that happened with Dess and the divorce. Toriel is NOT close with Carol, which we can imagine comes from their incompatible personalities but Toriel provides the more direct and current reason of Carol's support for Asgore's "you know what."It's important to note that she distinguishes this from Carol's financial support for Asgore, despite this also arguably being negative and demeaning for him. She is in fact talking about Asgore's obsession with solving Dess's disappearance, which as far as Toriel and the other townsfolk are concerned drove him insane and ruined his life and their family.Remember that Carol also has corkboard in her room, which Asgore monologues in front of when you spy on him in the house.>* That Asgore guy... It's a shame he lost everything after he... You know.>* Now he has to sell flowers to make ends meet, but... What? He's your father? Sorry.>* Well, I hope for your sake he quits being so... obsessed with that stuff.
>>733039461Of course the flower stuff was just a decoy so people would think all the weird talk around him was about his flowers and not Dess, because everything in this game has to be some sort of red herring.
i was expecting newsletter today, what happened?
what do the mikes think of the weird route?
>>733040187toby is busy fucking a susie fursuit
>>733040187We will likely never get another newsletter flood like we had for Chapter 3, and honestly that's for the best. We can get into the chapters with broader expectations at least.
>>733040187He already updated this week, the first draft of the translation is finished and now the game is on bugfixing.
Rudy Knight completely destroys the Holiday family dynamic. Suddenly Rudy isn't just a man trying to hold his family together anymore, he's just another person lying to Noelle.
>>733035963Anon, I've been a day 1 believer
Dess is the Knight and you really have to deliberately close your eyes to literally everything on chapter 3 to even begin considering any other possiblity.It isn't even a mystery. It's not supposed to be a mystery. The question is "how the fuck did this happen."
>>733036698>I am grateful for your wife's...>Carol's>Your wife's...The man took what's looking to be his last walk outside from his deathbed to see his daughter at church. The least Toriel could do is respect that he still loves his wife, despite her literal and figurative cold demeanor, whether or not she's still supporting Asgore after the breakup. She really is such a bitch.
>No new funny Valentines Day spritesAwww man
Toby Fox is too boring to make anybody but Dess be the knight
>>733041410putting a bunch of obvious Dess signs in front of the player and then going "actually all of that was wrong, expectations SUBVERTED" is not clever or interesting
I tire of waiting
WHAT DID ASGORE DOWHAT DID HE FUCKING DO THIS TIME FOR HIM TO GO THROUGH ALL OF THISWHY DID HE GET KICKED OFF THE POLICE FORCEWHO EVEN KICKED THIS NIGGA OFF
>>733041935wait for chapter 5 ;)
>>733041493because toby would never ever do such a thing
what if the chapter 6 movemnet gimmick (1 had running, 2 had vehicles, 3 had sneaking, 4 had climbing) is a bro stider style flash step
>>733041935I actually think this time the divorce was just a "normal" one. Asgore can be utterly unbearable to be around at times when he's obsessed with something- see the eggs husband scene, the church scene- and I can't imagine the Dess search was good for his mental health. I just think Toriel got tired of him being an obsessed conspiracist and said enough was enough.
What if the chapter is disappointing because we really figured everything out
>>733041935>WHAT DID ASGORE DObeing a heterossexual, masculine man with a wife and children in a toby fox game
>>733042014What?>>733042136We didn't know shit about ch3 nevermind ch4 it'll be fine
>>733042136anon that would be the good endingGerson (Toby, in truth) was talking out of his ass about "predictability" being bad. At worst it means the author lacks creativity, at best it means the author wrote an internally consistent story. For an episodic series, it also means it stayed true to it's premise all the way through.
>>733042414It wouldn't be the good ending because /v/'s predictions are often amazingly retarded
>>733042414I'm half expecting Gerson to be kind of clowned by the narrative because there is no way going off tails to get better ideas like in the Weird Route is supposed to be a good thing
>>733042487>/v/'s predictions are often amazingly retardedlike?
>>733042551He was already clowned by how cynical/ironic these chapters have been when he calls out that directly
>>733042602Friend being the Tail of Hell is the dumbest fucking shit ever. It VISIBLY does NOT have a tail
>>733042861I frankly can't understand this mentality.Can't people see how this shit is just yet another mystery box on top of all the old ones AND all the new ones?We already saw a bunch of foreshadowing mean nothing, ever since Chapter 2 revealed the previous cliffhanger was just a joke on Chara fags. What will make it different this time?
>>733043043The cliffhanger is very obviously not a joke. Kris being linked to the conspiracy was followed up upon and it is currently a major plot point. Just because it didn't play out in the most obvious and rote way of Kris being the Knight and directly opening every Fountain, doesn't mean it was a joke.
>>733039461it's not about finding dess, you retards obsess over this bitch.it's about FINDING MIKE. WHO IS MIKE? a cat? a cowboy? a lil' guy? why is mike the singular person who spamton doesn't want to destroy?to quote spamton sweepstakes:>HAVE A [Long and Refreshing] [sleep knowing that wanted criminals could be right next to you and your family?]!
>>733042861We've seen a random Darkner with its face in a cutscene nobody actually SAW in-universe, and small enemies with its face that treat it like an amorphous shadow blob.
>>733043180I am not talking about the cliffhanger from chapter 2 (which is its own can of worms), I'm talking about the chapter 1 cliffhanger.
>>733042136the deltarune fandom has been consistently and aggressively wrong since day 1, because you're all fags with no creativity. the most accurate chapter 3+4 theories were the weirdest ones from the most retarded theorizers.the knight will be a robot.
>>733043351>see version of the Undertale cast where the schism that drove Asgore and Toriel apart didn't involve the death of any of their children>wtf why did this world's chara not go on a killing spree while still being a little creepy?
>>733043428I don't disagree about the lack of creativity, but it's that vs an author who can't fucking read the room and follow on things people like.
>>733043351The chapter 1 cliffhanger immediately establishes "Kris is not you and does things without you" and this element goes on to be a major driver of the plot. Not only this, but it leaves you thinking. Every time Kris drops you they go out to do something important to their own agenda; be it opening a Dark Fountain or contacting their partner. Then there is this huge stretch of time where Kris could have done anything and you just don't know. You go>wait what is this??? what is Kris doing???>haha kris just ate pie>wait what WERE they doing?
>>733043548>it's that vs an author who can't fucking read the room and follow on things people like.the audacity to say some dumb nigger-ass shit like this. you don't even know the full plot of the damn game.
>>733043548rewriting the story you have in mind to appeal to your audience is how you produce disposable worthless slop
>>733043584there is also a secondary aspect to all of this, which is about establishing trust between us and kris. not just kris trusting us, but us trusting THEM.
>>733043536>I'm going to very bluntly reference the soulless pacifist ending, in a way that appeals to Chara fans very much, in the series which is know for timeline and reality warping>wow, you're so silly for expecting such a beloved character to come back (laughs) why would anyone think that could happen? (laughs)
>>733043645>>733043728it's an episodic series sold for money, it will be judged as suchdon't fucking imply shit that will never happen again, toby
>>733043742But Chara didn't kill anyone. You did. The whole point of the Genocide route is that your curiosity is the one driving this. If the Chara-analogue suddenly started killing people without your input that goes against the fundamental concept of the Genocide route. It is unironically the sort of shit a 10 year old would write in ff.net
>>733043584anon there was barely any discussion around the idea of "control" after that scene, that only really started with spamton talking about freedom and stringswhat people got out of that was "yay chara is back" because people like murderboy chara
>>733043871it literally did happen. you are seething it didn't happen like you wanted. all of the first chapters' cliffhangers had clear and obvious purposes and the elements of them went on to be major drivers of the plot.
>>733043742>this series is known for "timeline and reality warping">the author should use this to justify insane fanwank nonsense like "this character we never really knew comes back">to not do so is BAD WRITING
>>733043886>But Chara didn't kill anyonewhat did the crossed monsters on the photo in the soulless ending mean, then?
>>733043949you have to be genuinely retarded if you don't see all the moments where Kris is acting without the player's consent. the entire fucking "let's think about what susie is doing" with ralsei where he deliberately draws the camera away did not clue you to anything? seriously? how are you this dumb?
>>733036698>>733041247Legit what the fuck is wrong with her? She's seems to be behind the black deer sprite in the files too.
>>733044049Yeah I remember the original theories of people being concerned Ralsei and Kris were conspiring against (you). Now we know it was also an important skill for Kris to have to be able to send (you) to someone else.
>>733044000>>to not do so is BAD WRITINGit's shit writing to bait people with things they like and then not only never follow up on that but also mock thenif toby doesn't want to write more chara then just don't imply that at all, and also don't imply every character would have a chapter villain, or a schizo boss, a strong theming, and so on
>>733044016Chara is mocking you for murdering a ton of people and then going back in time to be all buddy buddy with them
>>733044049hindsight is 20/20 retarda game shifting in perspective isn't anything groundbreaking, there was nothing to be weirded when it happened in chapter 1
>>733044171nothing was "implied." there were two chapters. to assume every single chapter would follow the same exact formula of find dark world -> optionally find schizoboss -> resolve dark world was retarded, especially when chapter 2's cliffhanger was making it obvious the trend was going to get bucked
>>733044171>this is about Toby not wanting to write "more Chara"No, it's about someone like Chara in the way you freaks demand has no place in Chapter 1 of Deltarune.>chapter 3+ BETRAYS what was good about the originals! I want to meet three more Spamton clones with the same storyline beat for beat!Shut the fuck up.
>>733044173and how do you know that instead of chara just killing then?
>>733044258A character deliberately going "let's think about what Susie is doing right now" to force a camera shift and actively rebuking your attempts with further insistence when they have already shown they are trying to railroad you into a given path (such as with the crossroads in ch2) is not strange? people literally were calling it out as strange back then
>>733044258Ralsei suddenly switching to his "tutorial" voice and telling Kris to think about Susie moments before your camera leaves him for the first significant length of time since his introduction, to focus on Susie, isn't just hindsight being 20/20. People noticed it at the time. We assumed it was JUST Kris and Ralsei conspiring at the time. How naive we were.
>>733044332you don't know Chara is murdering them either so both our interpretations are valid
>>733044313anon UNDERTALE HAD A FUCKING FORMULAit was followed on every area except true lab and new home, both at the very end of the normal gameand 2/7 chapters is nearly 30% of the game, demos are supposed to be a sneak peek for an entire game>>733044327>I want to meet three more Spamton clonesfunny how you call then "Spamtons" and not "Jevils" since he was the one who started this shitAnd don't threaten me with a good time, it sure was wonderful to get the nothing burger that was Eram and the Titan, one with barely any personality and the other with not a single ounce of personality. Oh. but we sure got a lot of teenagers crying about their feelings! That is something great.Vision Crew's chapter 3 would probably have been more fun despite their retarded ideas.
>>733044468>>733044486what the fuck were you people on during 2018?the only things I found weird back then were the egg man, the goner maker, jevil, the bunker, and the chara-esque cliffhangerI was just happy I got more Undertale to play and have fun
>>733044716It was literally impossible that chapter 3 was going to follow the trend of chapter 2 and 1 because it literally would open inside the Dark World. It was an obvious hint that things were not as it seemed.And you STILL have secret bosses every chapter. They're just DIFFERENT every chapter, just like Jevil and Spamton were extremely different; Jevil was completely optional and you had to go out of your way to search for him and the keys while you were guaranteed an encounter with Spamton and he was clear about what you had to do.
>>733040187hand hurte
What’s the appeal?
>>733044981>you had to go out of your wayAnd by that you mean just checking which floors you can go to on the elevatorSpamton was way harder for me to find on my first attempt because his dialogue is filled to the brim with insanity, it just gets lost on the noise while Jevil gives more clear instructions>And you STILL have secret bosses every chapterThis shit isn't about simply "secret" bosses, it's about SCHIZO bosses. There is a reason why Ramb got fan made battle songs since day 1.
>>733036698To be honest, it seems like Toriel still cares about Asgore and is either jealous of Carol or doesn't like that she's involved with him. I think Toriel and Asgore will patch thing out in the last chapter
>>733036698Toriel dislikes Carol because she fuels Asgore’s obsession.
>>733035963I still believe Knight is Dess + Kris's SOUL. Lightner and darkner hybrid.
>>733042136I mean the most improtant part of chapter 5 is the festival. Whatever couple is featured is going to be an end game. I'm like 80% sure it will force Krusie route and only 20% it will let the player pick between Susie, Noelle, Berdly and Ralsei.Main reasoning is Krusie is more of a story driving plot (more impactfull when Kris betray Susie while Noelle gets cucked and turn into schizo)
>>733039274People really like torturing the poor skeleton, especially fangirls.
>>733040187Wait for March for newsletter.
>>733045286tragic yearning autism>FUCK OFF KRIS, I NEED TO GET VORED BY BARNEY>...>(Damn, kinda awkward without Kris here...)>(Why do I wish Kris was here...?)
>>733035963https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_n5E7feJHw0
>>733045286Reminder that Toby uses they/them as the classic japanese phrase for "both/other" gender. It's okay to portray Kris as a male since it's as valid interpretation as seeing him as a girl, intersexual or genderfluid.
>>733043043Look, Kris was never ever going to kill everyone soulless pacifist style. Chapter 2 was too early for that. He's still AU Chara.
>>733044716>UNDERTALE HAD A FORMULAAnd that wasn't something objectively good or bad about it, it simply was. Deltarune being more like Undertale for its intro and diverging over time is fine.>I like "personality" when it means "wacky joke men" but not when it means the main characters having oneOkay buddy, I got my story about the main characters and wasn't dissatisfied at all.>BUT MUH CRYING TEENAGERSThey are the main characters. The game is about them.
Back in the day I warned anons how Mike might not be the secret boss.I also criticized Spamton for following Jevil's setup way too closely, despite loving him.And now I have to deal with faggots calling me an idiot for criticizing the game for not doing the bare minimum to follow up its setups, and how I am stupid and dumb for having expected the game to be fun instead of spending my time on chapter 1 looking for obvious deepest lore about the most mundane shit.
>>733039705>Of course the flower stuff was just a decoy so people would think all the weird talk around him was about his flowersThere's nothing weird about Asgore and his flowers, he runs a flower shop, it's his job.We found out that Asgore used to be the chief of police but got sacked in Chapter 2, it was very easy to predict that this was connected to Dess's disappearance and contributed to the divorce.
>>733043949People did think Kris was being controlled by the player back in Chapter 1 days. Nobody really thought she was back outside of little kids. Paper Trail is a good example of what smart fans actually thought about it.
>>733040187the last newsletter was less than two months ago tard
Reminder that Krusie beaten Suselle even on tumblr where only fujo and faggots reside. How shit you gotta be at writing yuri that a possibly straight couple not only beats pure lesbian suselle, but also managed to reach top 10 on homosexual ranking
>>733046123Then Don'tFuckingImply itI didn't even want "Megalo Strike Back Chara fight" this early in the game either, but just don't bait people if that's not the case.I wasn't that annoyed when the pie happened because I wasn't a genocide or charafag, but it hindsight it's infuriating how half of this game's story is just cheap rugpull after cheap rugpull.I just related to these Charafags from back then because I got rugpulled the same way about Chapter 3 as a whole now.
>>733045102Kris was the one who got raped btw
>>733046393>Kris behaving in this way implies soulless pacifist Chara and that is a binding promise! the game didn't follow through! reeee!!>I didn't even want any of this shit btw I'm just a retard who got one name and a theme and ad-libbed an entire chapter out of it and am mad that my headcanon wasn't supportedfucking stellar posts tonight
>>733043185It’s as if Mike is Spamton’s best friend or something!
>>733046210>There's nothing weird about Asgore and his flowersyeah his chat with Sans about them wasn't awkward at all
>>733046096This is true. Humans are whatever gender you want them to be.
>>733046379Suselle on 25th place lmao
>>733046379>literally the only "straight" ship is krusie (unless those cookies are a boy and girl, i don't play those games so idk but given everything else i'm doubtful)>and it barely even counts because of kris' they/themussy
unironically what the fuck did toby mean by this optional scenewhat is he trying to convey to the viewer? that noelle couldnt give less of a shit about him?
>>733046629blame straight women
>>733046393Dude, I am a humanbro. I love Chara and Frisk. But I am grateful Toby wasn't a hack and had Kris kill everyone randomly. Him doing so never made sense.
>>733045319>Spamton was way harder for me to find on my first attempt because his dialogue is filled to the brim with insanityWell then you're just retarded. He directly says MEET ME IN THIS PLACE and when you go there he says BUY THIS ITEM and then he says GO TO THE BASEMENT and then GO BACK TO THE BASEMENT and then you're done
>>733046656how can straight women be so fucking gay
>>733042125People should remember that the reason Toriel left him in Undertale was because by his own admission he let his hatred and anger consume him after Asriel and Chara died, we've never seen it because he's already a broken man in both games but Asgore has a terrible temper when he's pushed to his breaking point.It's easy to imagine the Dreemurr household spiraling out of control fast in the incredibly stressful situation Asgore found himself in, especially when he clearly saw something to do with the Dark World and nobody believed him.
>>733046379Tumblr itself was coping and pretending Krusie was yuri and posting FemKris x Susie.
>>733039379It started from the >'sup, kiddo?>THE ROARING THE THREE PEOPLE SMILING SNOWGRAVE THE PLACE IT RAINED ITS OKAY TO NOT SMILE etc.MemePersonally I think its gay but theres another image like this with better writing
>>733046658>BUT KRIS LOOKED LIKE CHARA FOR A SECOND>THAT MEANS TOBY WAS SPIRITUALLY PROMISING TO GIVE ME CHARA
>>733046504Anon.Why do you keep insisting?Watch the chapter 1 ending and the soulless ending. Do you think Toby didn't know what the reaction over that was going to be?And I didn't "get one name", I got>way more than we got about Queen and the Cyberworld>a ton of hints for shit that could happen>A dozen newsletters and the sweepstakes with a bunch of spoilers for the chapter and details about the developmentMy frustration with chapter 3 goes WAY FUCKING BEYOND Mike. I barely even got to walk around and explore which is something so basic you can't even call it some crazy headcanon theory or whatever.
>>733046723Fujos are the yurifags of women, that's why.
>>733046762
>>733046783>Do you think Toby didn't know what the reaction over that was going to be?He knew the childish kneejerk reaction would be "OMG CHARA IS BACK"He probably knew it would incite memesHe almost certainly knew that people analyzing the story from a serious perspective would move on from that and start discussing what's really going on. Which they did.
>>733046908>Which they did.Show me. Show me all the discussion and theories from the chapter 1 era where people said this.
>>733046791Judging by how thin everyone in her family is that might not be an easy task. Godspeed
>>733046783You got the name "Mike" and then Spamton spitting borderline incoherent hate at what you can only assume based on context clues to be a TV. The rest was people making leaps, and pseudo canonical mid-development teasers.>>733046968>where people saidWhat? Where people operated under the assumption that Kris wasn't literally Chara and wouldn't derail the plot into genocide 2 against our will? People fell into that assumption as soon as they realized there was likely to be a trip to the dark world in chapter 2, which is to say, instantly.
>>733046521It was fucking awful but it was mainly conveying that Asgore is the Most Divorced Man AliveThe vaguely sinister Beauty and the Beast references is only really foreshadowing in hindsight, it didn't demand an explanation in itself, he's just using his flowers to cope with the divorceAnd the actual room in his shop with the flowers colored like the Human Souls arranged in a circle is obviously designed to set off a million alarm bells for everyone who's played Undertale, but there's so much in Chapter 1 that's just Toby fucking with you based on your expectations from Undertale.
>>733046379everyone with a brain hates suselle, it's one sided as hell, look up the tea interactionsNoelle is giga horny and a perverted freak, kinda of a cunt too.Susie is just friendship starved and legit loves everyone equally, she's a saint and the true angel.Kris is doing everyting in his power to distance himself from Noelle to prevent more emotional pain AND the player from doing the weird route.https://deltarune.fandom.com/wiki/Tea
>>733046908>He knew the childish kneejerk reaction would be "OMG CHARA IS BACK"So your whole schtick is wanting to stick it up to those horrible people who enjoyed the games The Wrong Way (TM)?Those people are the very reason Deltarune is able to exist. Not everyone gets to do their dream game the way Toby is doing. What's exactly the point on getting revenge from those fans?
>>733046630that noelle isn't a perfect angel and is willing to throw distance between her and Kris to get dino pussy
>>733046630If it wasn't highlighted, I would've assumed it was Noelle just being an awkward, fumbling teenager who can't express herself in front of Susie. Lots of people will do that, where they'll dump on others in their life or minimize their importance to make them seem more available to someone they want to make an impression on.Since it's highlighted though, it's hard to say. Maybe it's a way of showing how, again, Kris' life up to this point has been a bit empty. Their side of the room is lifeless and without any achievement or merit, their mother seems to care immensely about them but doesn't really seem to engage on any personal level or see how they've been developing, and pretty much everyone they had a connection to is either moving on with their life (Asriel), gone for some reason (Dess), or doesn't really view them as a close friend after so much time has passed (Noelle). The first thing that has given them some sort of control (an obvious theme the story has) and motivation is the Dark World and possibly the soul's involvement. Or, at the very least, some kind of circumstances with everything they're involved in has taken them from a very absent child into someone being manipulated. That, or choosing to get caught up in something much bigger than them because it's more than what they've been before.That's my pretentious take on it all. Who actually knows. With Toby, it could be a super deep thematic moment, or he could've forgotten that he highlighted that word and meant nothing by it at all.
>>733047103>You got the name "Mike" and then Spamton spitting borderline incoherent hate at what you can only assume based on context clues to be a TVAnd all that segued perfectly into a character who is, in fact, a TV and who Spamton did hate. Literally everything that we got promised on regarding this guy that Spamton had a history with was followed upon. It's just that the guy wasn't specifically named Mike
>>733046783Okay anon keep dreaming about your epic Somehow, Chara Has Returned in Chapter 3 where Chara kills everyone and how awesome that would've been, I'm so so sorry Toby robbed that from you
>>733047202It's what we call a "joke." A story joking around and pulling a sneaky on its fans is literally completely normal. Would you call the Scooby-Doo movie making a joke about the fans who thought Shaggy did weed "wanting to stick it up?"
>>733047202>wanting to stick it up to those horrible people who enjoyed the games The Wrong WayHow in the world did you get that from me calling the assertion that Chara had fucking zipped into Kris's body the moment we were there to watch "childish"? People with brains noticed the parallel and used it to make inferences about Kris's character and motives that remain relevant, people without memed about genociding the school in ch2.>Those people are the very reason Deltarune is able to exist.What the hell are you talking about?
>>733046630Noelle used to have feelings for Kris but has repressed this since they've grown apartShe's heavily downplaying their relationship to Susie both because this is something she herself feels uncomfortable/unsure about (remember the "Dating Shoes" gag in Chapter 2?) and because she's romantically interested in Susie, so she naturally denies her relationship with Kris to signal to Susie that she's available
>>733047292No, we got Spamton talking fondly about Mike and then spitting hate about someone TV-related. The fact that everyone seemed to take these to be the same character until we got the name "Tenna" raised massive red flags for me, which made me doubt the entire "Mike theory complex" as it were back in the day. Didn't help that for awhile he had also absorbed fucking FRIEND. All that because we got Mike's name first.
>>733047313Alright, have fun watching all these teenagers cry about their emotional issues for 6 hours straight during Chapter 5 while you get like 3 boss battles which don't mean much and a dark world with no relation to flowers.
>>733047397>Would you call the Scooby-Doo movie making a joke about the fans who thought Shaggy did weed "wanting to stick it up?"this happened?
>>733047508see you there
>>733047230The highlighted bits of their conversation are things that Kris is reacting to. Kris probably feels a little hurt at Noelle downplaying their relationship, but can't blame her at all considering Kris has been doing the same thing, distancing themself from her for years.
>>733047508You make it sound like this is in any way out of character for Deltarune. The good part of ch2 was when the wacky side characters finally fucking settled down and we got to see the main characters interact and develop with some focus. A chapter focused on the main characters sounds great.>BUT WHAT ABOUT THE FLOWERS YOU WERE PROMISED FLOWERS DON'T YOU WANT FLOWERSThe theme of the next chapter is arbitrary and I couldn't care less about it. I felt the same before chapter 2 and chapter 3/4.
>>733046908Toby baited people on purpose with the ending of Chapter 1. It was th3 biggest red herring he did which is why the fandom is still broken from it.
>>733047509there's a shot of the Mystery Machine with smoke coming out of the back, Scooby and Shaggy giggling and reggae playing. then it cuts to the inside where they are toasting sandwiches
>>733047402>What the hell are you talking about?This might be a surprise to you, but journalists and video essayists praising the "meta narrative" aren't why Undertale was a hit. It was people getting obsessed with the characters, the humor and the mystery.Skeletonfags and such are the ones who directly or indirectly funded Deltarune's development, either by buying merch or by spreading the word on the game.
>>733046725Non WR Kriselle is the "pretend yuri" ship, revisionist.
>>733035963>When did you start being yourselfWhy do I get the feeling that all the vague schizobabble text like this from Ch. 3 and 4 will just never get clearly explained
>>733047723Honestly this is true, but with the tenth anniversary stream I think Toby loves these people. He doesn't seem to hate them.
>>733047582Yeah, it's not really clear where Kris has been mentally for the past few years, but it's obvious they basically shut down/shut out the world for some time with the way Noelle reacts to them. I'm sure it has something to do with the bunker, Dess, something like that. But even without extraordinary circumstances, friends drift apart. Especially when one of them basically seems like a zombie most days. It sucks since we only see it within the context of a few days and, as the player, actively engage with Noelle. So it feels a bit cruel of her to say. But there could have been a solid few years where Kris just didn't interact with her more than a general glance it feels like.It sucks to see, but it's a very real thing.
>>733036698It can't be "his obsession with finding Dess" because it would make perfect sense for a mother to want to find her missing child, and she wouldn't talk about that in front of Rudy because he's Dess's fatherIt also can't be "his flower shop" because why the fuck would she not want to say that?
>>733047786I am saying what the Tumblr xitter account did. They literally posted a FemKris x Susie image to make it look like yuri
>>733046379remember when suselle troons said this poll was rigged or some shit?
>>733047645>You make it sound like this is in any way out of character for DeltaruneOh no, no no no. It's perfectly in tune with how Chapter 4 went.>The good part of ch2 was when the wacky side characters finally fucking settled downThe good part of chapter 2 was Queen getting shitfaced and Spamton calling Noelle a slut.Chapter 1 feels like straight up false advertisement by this point.
>>733036698TRVTHNVKE: Alphys being the ONLY person in hometown (besides Rudy, his best friend) to like Asgore is our BIGGEST hint.
>>733046630They are written as "distanced" but its clear she feels something as she was super excited on weird route to reconnect with "old Kris". I think Krusie on the festival will have most sense to break Noelle becuase not only "Susie is lost" but the most painfull thing is that "Kris will find somebody else" and that will turn Noelle insane
>>733047939get a grip tumblrtroon
>>733047994she likes him because she's bithis has been a thing since undertale
>>733047890It is his obsession with finding Dess because by all means it hasn't gotten anywhere and it has lead both him and Carol into a complete downward spiral. There is a difference between still looking for Dess (okay) and freezing her entire room in time (abnormal). Kris is apparently uncomfortable looking at conspiracy boards suggesting Asgore was not the most stable person around. Toriel, by this point, has moved on. Dess' disappearance was a tragedy but to let it completely consume you isn't good for you.
>>733047973It's perfectly in tune with the rest of the game.>The good part of chapter 2 was WACKY SIDE CHARACTER SHENANIGANS>no sir I HATED EVERY SECOND that I was expected to actually care about the plot of the game I'm choosing to play!The game isn't even making a mockery of you, your behavior does that on its own.
>>733048057>no uSuselle really IS BTFO'd, huh.
>>733047582>Kris probably feels a little hurt at Noelle downplaying their relationshipThat's the thing that makes the weird route awesome and flavorful, he's glad Noelle is staying away from him and thus Me, but also seething he's not the center of her attention/affection. The childhood "friend" inside of him loves the weird route, his dreamy, LARPy and edgy "red horns" persona.
>>733047939Damn the only innacurate thing about it is that Kerdly actually got into top 50 while Soriel never made it
>>733047994Nobody really dislikes Asgore aside from Toriel, and even she tolerates his presence and wants him to get his shit together despite the constant harassment. There's even an NPC wanting to buy flowers from his shop but he isn't there. The problem with Asgore isn't that anyone dislikes him, people put a ton of trust on him, but rather that he seems determined to constantly make a fool out of himself and squander that trust.
>>733047994Alphys likes Undyne more. Mad Mew Mew is the only chance for Asgore outside of Toriel
>>733048262>funnybunny is only #60am i missing something here?
>>733047403Normal route festival = Krusie = Noelle breaks and becomes the villain to be defeatedWeird route festival = Kriselle = Final villain is appealed and joins Kris/Soul while Susie grow distanced and end up becoming the final boss like Sans on genocide route
>>733048128Chapter 1 had a grand total of 3 "dramatic" scenes and one of them is quite simple.I used to like the plot when I thought it was about darkners having some kind of beef with the lightners and not "le trauma allegory over someone who had almost no mentions or allusions in chapter 1"
>>733048262>Kerdly is third most popular DeltashipIs Kriselle there?
>>733048328its overall cringe even if popular. Main romantic chemistry is with Pomni and Gummigoo while Jax has some past relationship with Ribbit who is currently abstracted
>>733046853this ones betterhe already knows your an anolomy with time powers he wouldn't be THAT much more scared of youalso it fits into the whole grim curiosity "i gotta see what happens if i do x" shit that the game already has
>>733048525yeah slightly lower than suselle>>733046605
>>733048505The plot is very obviously about the hierarchical relationship between Darkners and Lightners
>>733048328>>733048536I don't get how the "this is not going to have shipping" Gooseworx does ,pre compelling romantic scenes than people who are actually attempting to write romance.I loved the Daisy Daisy scene and I never had bothered with shipping in that show before.
>>733048640the plot is clearly about Dess by this point
>>733048670that was a very sibling coded scene
>>733048717I don't know how you can have the whole thing in chapter 3 with Tenna begging the party to not discard him then a prophecy in chapter 4 raising the destruction of the Dark Worlds as necessary and then the villains being the literal personification of fearing the dark and not think the relationship between Darkners and Lightners being fucked has relevance.
>>733048726I don't feel itpomni and ragatha feel more sibling coded to me, or something like Lancer and Susie too
>>733040582I feel like part of the reason chapter 3 is so disliked is because we saw basically all the assets (sans Tenna and the MANTLE game stuff) before the chapter came out
>>733036784Noelle would never say that
>>733048846By this point, darkners are nothing but a reflection of the Lightners desires and fears. You know, the whole Omori thing.
>>733048935It's the best one if you have an IQ above 125 t b f
>>733048505From chapter 1 we fucking knew there was at least one non-Darkner character making fountains. Wanting the story to have been a war of light versus dark just sounds like you wanted to fit it to an arbitrary "correct" fantasy plotline.>le trauma allegoryExplain what you think this actually means and why it's bad.
>>733046724
>>733036784Weird route Noelle will totally say that in chapter 5
>>733048898We literally seen Pomni acting around someone she fell for in episode 4. Her acting around Jax is completely different, there's no romance involved like Susie and Lancer
>>733048990Yeah, isn't it cool that we have more reasoning to their designs and goals than the thing they're based on? Much better than the alternative, that they come out of nowhere and every object has an objective "Darkner form".
>>733046379>>733046605>>733048262>kris and ralsei nowhere to be seenholy fuck i never cared for that pairing but it got ultra obliterated thanks to the incest allegations lmao, not even Toby making Kris say he doesn't look like Asriel saved it
>>733048990no that's stupid. darkners having their own thoughts and opinions is key to the story. I don't know how anyone can read Ralsei having an empty room because he sees no value in himself beyond his relationship to the lightners and say that "actually yes, he is right, he is only a shadow of the light world"
>>733048935Tenna is very much in line with the most basic predictions about his appearance, except for being 3d and very tall. What people got wrong was him not being a mob boss.Chapter 3 gets hate because it has shit to do with TV and scrapped the normal gameplay for most of the runtime.
>>733049335And that's a dumb hate considering we all should already know that Toby loves his minigames by this point
>>733049183Woman don't care about Ralsei.
>>733049218the idea that every scrap of data and garbage having feelings and opinions is something abhorrentRalsei is right
>>733048670Nooseworx is Toby if he didnt learn to shut his fucking mouth
>>733049172>isn't it cool that we have more reasoning to their designs and goals than the thing they're based on?No, I despise allegorical writing. I like fictional worlds and characters being their own thing instead of a "meaning device" or whatever is the actual term for that.>>733049218I guess there is an ongoing theme of darkners taking their own path (like the quick Darkners Live portion you see in chapter 3), but the actual story so far is King reflecting Susie, Queen being the Universal Mother, Tenna reflecting Kris's desire to go back in time and the Titan being nothing but this vague "fear of the dark".
>>733048935its the worst one on the first playthrough and the best one on the second playthrough
>>733049589There are no fictional worlds where things "just are" without any allegorical or subtextual meaning. Only fictional worlds where nobody, possibly not even the author, has explored the subtext.
>>733049395I was complaining about the teacup rides being a waste of time both into the gameplay AND the development all the way back in chapter 2.After Toby first mentioned the amount of minigames on Chapter 3 on a newsletter, I thought it was going to be chapter 2 on steroids, aka "gauntlet of minigames and puzzles separated by overworld exploration, bosses and cutscenes", not one single minigame that barely has relation to the theming of the world.
>>733049692It's not really possible to completely cut off the creative process from ones thoughts and feelings, but don't act like there isn't degrees for this.We can have anything from stories who are nothing but "blue curtain symbolism" all the way through to something like speculative fiction which reads like a textbook.
>>733049874There are degrees, but the degree you're asking for is nonexistent, because it runs counter to decent storytelling. In a decent story, every major plot beat means something to the characters, not just to the viewers.
>>733049589All of the bosses are extensions of the relationship between Darkners and Lightners. King is rebelling against the Lightners as his explicit purpose, Queen is doing what she dies explicitly because she was made to better their lives and thinks conquering the world will accomplish that, and Tenna is so dependent on being useful to the Lightners he goes and does literally all of chapter 3 to win Kris' love again- and the Titans are the literal fear of the Dark.
>>733050045I don't even get what you're trying to argue about. All I'm saying is that I prefer plot driven stories and I'm frustrated with how long it took for Deltarune to be explicit about how character driven it is.I'm just the bane of the kind of critic who complains about "style over substance" because I happen to prefer (and pay money for) the style.
>>733050062>King resembles Susie in some ways, even quoting her "quiet people piss me off" line, could represent her father>Queen's resemblance to Carol is obvious>Tenna is similar to Asgore, being a father figure who unintentionally makes Kris uncomfortable with his constant references to the past>As YOU know, Ralsei is made of pure darkness, so the Titan is basically his uncle.I have no idea how this theme would carry to Chapter 5, since it seems like we're going to straight up fight Asgore
>>733050312>plot driven storiesI am trying to tell you that this is an insane oxymoron and the stories you call "plot driven" are ones that just had shallower decisions made on the allegorical front, it's not free of the influence you seem to think it is. The plot isn't something separate from the characters. Chapter 1 and 2 were about the characters.
I wish people liked something I did like they like Deltarune
>>733046762It's a fun idea but i think the whole "...what the hell ARE you!??" reaction would make more sense from Alphys. She knows Sans' secret and is briefly terrified just by Papyrus asking if they know eachother, intruding on their relationship and pointing out their secret would totally give her a heart attack.
>>733047819It's flavor text and it's kino"When did you start being yourself?" has pretty clear relevance to a story where half the cast is in an identity crisis. Titans represent fear and that kind of existential dread is exactly what Kris and Ralsei are afraid of.
>>733050524>>As YOU know, Ralsei is made of pure darkness, so the Titan is basically his uncle.That's stupid. It doesn't make any sense. I'm made of meat, so are you. Why would we be both cousins? ALL darkners are made of dark fountain stuff, and nothing says the Titans are "pure darkness." In fact they're literally explicitly said to be born of one particular thing (fear of the dark).
>>733050525>this is an insane oxymoron"plot driven" is very common lingo in writing discussion circles, retardof course things aren't absolutes, but it's the same way how every story has plot even if it is a very little amount
She is the bane of my existence.
>>733050710And the people who rail on about how games don't need plots at all and how Mario saving Peach from Bowser was enough are ALSO dumb fucks. "I don't want this thing" doesn't secretly mean you allow the minimum amount of that thing.
>>733046123>He's still AU Chara.No he isn't retard. Kris is a maligned hero doing his best for those he cares about.
>>733050979People like you are a blight on the current entertainment landscape, the reason why we see daddy's issues getting hamfisted into a million stories which didn't need or belong into.Mario saving Peach from Bowser got annoying because it is repetitive, but Mario doesn't need anything more than an excuse plot and charming characters because story isn't the fucking draw of a Mario game.
>>733046630Putting aside the lore between Kris and Noelle when they were kidsI believe Toby intentionally made similiar scenes in both routes to demostrate how different Noelle treats Kris in normal and weird
>>733050312>I'm frustrated with how long it took for Deltarune to be explicit about how character driven it is.The entire plot of Chapter 1 revolves around Susie's character arc, starting as a headstrong bully and being moderated by her friendship with Lancer, learning from Ralsei and growing to respect Kris as a friend and leader"Style" and "substance" are also not exclusive concepts, a story can have many interlocking layers of meaning and intent for people to decipher/read into while also being cool and fun as an experience. Undertale and Deltarune are both all about that, that's what draws people to them.
>>733050694I think all darkness beings are related because I'm racist
>>733051235>The entire plot of Chapter 1 revolves around Susie's character arcYou can also understand it as revolving around "Susie and Kris got stuck in the closet and want to get out" which is what they were actually trying to do most of the time.All with goofy Lancer scenes sprinkled throughout.People can enjoy something in more than one way, and the way I enjoyed Chapter 1 isn't possible in most of 3 and all of 4.
>>733051178>you're the reason everyone is projecting their own traumas into stories they write!Man, people would be doing that with or without consumers to buy it.I don't demand the same traumas every time. I just think the idea that stories are better off for focusing on their watsonian elements over their doylist elements is silly.>story isn't the draw of a Mario game therefore we shouldn't put thought into the plot!This is how you get the New Soup games.>story isn't the draw of a Mario game but that's no excuse to disregard itThis is how you get Super Mario Galaxy, or Paper Mario.
>>733050860Is the knight her sheik equivalent?
>>733051459>you can understand chapter 1 as the literal things that are going on plus the allegorical layer of how the characters are taking everything>OR you can understand chapter 1 solely by the literal things that happened! And that's what I wanted to do! So there!>the way I ignored the main plot was possible when the main plot was less pressing, but stops being possible as the main plot becomes more urgent! How could this be?Wow, you sure got him.
>>733051459What about you just come to terms that a game you were enjoying for the whimsy jokes and laid back simplicity, being an ongoing chapter release you cannot predict what will happen nor was it promised to you, has a plot you don't like?
>>733051459>the way I enjoyed Chapter 1 isn't possible in most of 390% of Chapter 3 is the gang hanging out and playing games together, if that wasn't good enough for you I don't know what to tell you
>>733051619>people would be doing that with or without consumers to buy it.the issue is that (good) archetype and plot centric fiction is almost extinct because critics spent decades shaming artists over "le depth", and I wanted more of that kind coming out now>I just think the idea that stories are better off for focusing on their watsonian elements over their doylist elements is silly.and that's nothing but your taste>This is how you get the New Soup games.literally didn't read what I said>This is how you get Super Mario Galaxy, or Paper Mario.I don't that in a completely strict sense. Galaxy just did that in the correct amount, and PM64's story was centered around set pieces that don't really get brought up again and going through practical obstacles, there wasn't much character there. SPM was the point they went too far with the bullshit, which lead to the overcorrection of Sticker Star and the NSMB games, like how Archie was for Sonic.
>>733051865I can't do that because you have no idea how much I loved that survey program demo. I loved it more than I ever had Undertale. I don't think you can begin understanding how much that meant to me as a retarded high schooler.All these years later, I have not found a single other work of fiction who can get me to feel that way. UTY got close but it just doesn't has the same spice. TADC also gets close but it has the same pitfalls as Toby's work.>you were enjoying for the whimsy jokes and laid back simplicityThat doesn't quite explain my taste either. I was complaining about Chapter 2 being too wacky back in the day too.>>733051925Said 90% has shit to do with the TV theming, or the previously established gameplay or all the foreshadowing. I genuinely enjoyed bits like the throuple and the post-doom board exploration but those are a tiny bit of the chapter.
>>733052107What the fuck does "archetype and plot centric fiction" mean? Characters are laid out as an archetype from the start and they're just allowed to interact with nothing to reveal and no outside factors at play? The reason those stopped being made is because if you don't allow yourself a bit more complexity you just write a worse approximation of a fairy tale a hundred times your age, it's not because critics "shamed" artists into compliance.>and that's nothing but your tasteIf your "taste" would render you incapable of accurately assessing what even happened in a story, much less why and how, then your taste needs to be corrected.>Galaxy had "the right amount of story" and PM didn't have much characterOh come the fuck on.
>>733051925Unrelated, but I'll always remember someone saying this Tenna line reads like one of those "I remember you're genocides" pics, and it fits so goddamn well.
>>733051925Jeez, I forget how often chapter 3 looks like a shitpost
>>733051925ralsei upskirt
>>733052581>>733052582
>>733052548Consider making your own retelling of Deltarune based on Chapter 1's vibe, if it's so personal to you maybe only you can do it, or the magic is truly gone and you'll never feel it again
>>733052560>What the fuck does "archetype and plot centric fiction" mean?let me try>characters who are carried by their charm instead of development, and who stay the same the whole way throughsomething like looney tunes shorts would be the most extreme example of this>stories with not much focus on a point, message or meaningaka you watch to see what will happen next, the nice spectacle and that's it
Can Toby just release two difficult modes please? doesn't make sense to have battles that are braindead easy and then incredible difficult superbosses
>>733052791undertale hard mode never ever
>>733052742I haven't quite found a good premise for an UT/DR style setting so far, but I do have a bunch of ideas for original stories I want to tell eventually. One day I'll make my own TV world with TV jokes and a TV villain who actually is a dangerous wacky mob boss.I just have to find the cure for laziness first.
>>733052752The idea that a character's charm runs counter to the idea of development is just plain odd. It reeks of you being afraid that your favorite will change and stop being your favorite, or something. Looney Tunes shorts only have the characters undergo "no development" because they're short, anytime you have longer form Looney Tunes media they have something resembling development because that's also a mandatory part of keeping comedy fresh!
>>733052791I wish we had an Asriel fight for real, the way it was done is pathetic.At least for Flowey I have his UTY fight to fill that need.
I have a theory.>FRIEND taught Kris and Dess to open Dark Worlds>Acted as a friend>Lured Dess to the Bunker Dark World>Captured her>Dess was turned into the Knight from a years worth of Dark World exposure
>>733052948I don't think you quite understand how static characters were a staple of entertainment not too long ago.They don't belong in every story but they have their worth too.
>>733053005>>Dess was turned into the Knight from a years worth of Dark World exposureI have no issue with the rest of it, but this line gets me. Why is this basically unanimous fandom consensus when there is literally not a single line of dialogue in the entire game that even suggests that this would be a consequence of dark worlds?I'm not even against the idea, it's just weird that everyone got the same headcanon simultaneously.
>>733053028There were no intentionally static characters that were also good. The Fonz can only go so far as a perfect do-no-wrong always-cool guy. That stuff stopped being written because stories are about conflict and conflict where one character doesn't even struggle (because if they did, they might develop and the dynamic might change) gets old fast.
>>733052791You can have your own experience playing the game and overcoming its challenges or you can watch it on Youtube
>>733053183Everyone seems to be on the same page that humans and monsters couldn't simply live in the dark world forever no matter how nice it is. Becoming corrupted into a pseudo-Darkner titanspawn-tainted thing that only vaguely resembles your original self is a bit of a leap from that, but the assumption that too much exposure to the Dark has consequences is very natural.
>>733053240I think what that anon means is that he wants the more basic battle like K Round actually being challenging.Why do you have the same reaction for anyone having any criticism for this game?
>>733053318>humans and monsters couldn't simply live in the dark world forever no matter how nice it isthen what is Gaster's endgame with this?he still is an Undertale character after all
>>733053394Anon, were you under the impression that Gaster had his experiment perfectly under control? That he was messing with forces within his own comprehension? You think that gets a man shattered across time and space? He thinks he can do something useful that requires a lot of darkness. He doesn't care how dangerous the darkness might be, or perhaps believes his intent will invalidate the danger if fulfilled.
>>733047994i really like the theory that shes kinda in on carols whole plan and was the one that shut the door on kris and susie in the closet in ch1
>>733053394What do you think happened to him?
>>733053587he fled to argentina
>>733053553She also wouldn’t be out of place at the library and has an excuse for the church
>>733047994>Alphys being the ONLY person in hometown (besides Rudy, his best friend) to like Asgore>mad dummy>undyne>mike wazowski girl>sans maybe
>>733051925Fuck it.
>>733054053>Time Loop is real.
>>733054053Any way you want to try and apply this to Deltarune's story, I think it comes out to be a pretty cool ending.
>>733053183The Knight is unnaturally large with warped proportions, and their body and equipment shifts and melds together in impossible ways. While Kris imagines their "helmet" coming off, they're clearly more than just a Lightner wearing a suit of armor.The Knight's armor/body seems to be covered/fused/made of the same black glass-like material that the Black Knife is made of, based on them having the same appearance (pure black with a white outline) and freely melding with The Knight's body when they shapeshift. The idea that the true form of the Black Knife was Dess's baseball bat which warps into the Knife when she summons it at the start of her fight also supports this interpretation.As for actual textual evidence of "evil darkness crystals that grow/warp/change you," we have this book in the Chapter 4 Egg Room which is explicitly connected to Kris's "ROOTS" and the incident with Dess. There's also the fact that the Titans have the same black-with-white outline appearance as The Knight, are compared to glass (Titan Spawn - "It sputtered in a voice like crushed glass"), and Ralsei and the game's narration explains them as manifestations of fear that appear in "deepest dark," which opens the interpretation that The Knight was a Lightner who has been transformed into something like a Titan.The Shadow Crystals are similar to (but NOT the same as) the black glass, and they've been strongly implied and seemingly outright confirmed in Chapter 5 to be crystalized Determination, which we know comes from Lightners (Spamton's Shadow Crystal was explicitly formed from Mettaton's 'hopes and dreams').If the "fallen star" was Dess left alone in the abyss, then her own "bitter tears" created the black glass, maybe corrupted by the darkness or by her own impurity.>BitterTear>Bitter water that fell in droplets from the sky. Recovers all HP.What substance fully restores your HP in these games? Determination.
>>733054667>What substance fully restores your HP in these games?pie
>>733054357I wish that vision crew faggot would just release his fan game
>>733054742ironic...
>>733047890Asgore is 100% trying to prove the existence of dark worlds. We know he's been to one, he has a black shard. But it's so unbelievable, everyone treats him like he's crazy. This probably means that Asgore is not working with the Knight/Kris, because Kris told Tenna to make absolutely sure that Toriel didn't wake up in the Dark World. If she saw it, she might start to believe Asgore, and that would ruin whatever their plan is. This may also mean that Carol is not actually working with Kris either? It wouldn't make sense for her to be helping Asgore if she wants to exclude him, or doesn't want him showing dark worlds to other people.
>>733055041>>733046762why is this so funny and satisfying?
>>733055783>This may also mean that Carol is not actually working with Kris either?the red glowing (You) was nothing but another silly red herring of course
>>733046853This was it, thanks.
Love wins.
>>733056352Sorry Snoozie, but in the Light World the deer gets the boy.
>>733056352Hate wins.
>>733056558He styled on them honestly.
>>733056352Awww
>>733056626I will always love how much of a piece of shit King was with the fakeout.Spamton was likely the only other time we will see this level of villainy in Deltarune.
>>733056558He reminds me that Noelle has a hamster cage, and he acts like a hamster, and that Ramb comment that King was on Kris sidemmm
I did an insane reimagining of Iron Man once, and I heavily based Tony on Kris.I will not elaborate
>>733055041I feel like Sans would just say "ok" to anything Deltarune related
>>733057281him and lancer (and elnina) are in this weird spot where they are technically anthros but no furry seems them that way
I honestly don't know why I keep coming backdespite everything I still have this retarded hope deep down that chapter 5 will actually be what I want
>>733057585The festival is a lost cause for me but I think the dark world shenanigans will overshadow it enough for the relationshit to not ruin the whole chapter.
Queen is funny
>>733046096
>>733055783>This probably means that Asgore is not working with the Knight/Kris,Asgore is definitely not in the inner circle of the conspiracy, he wouldn't let Kris go through this shit.Also if he was, Carol or Kris could have just told him to keep Susie away from the guitar instead and Carol wouldn't have had to intervene.>It wouldn't make sense for her to be helping Asgore if she wants to exclude himI don't think we have enough information to really say what Carol is using Asgore for, we just don't know enough about The Incident and its aftermath yet, that's being saved for Chapter 5.It's worth keeping in mind a few big pieces of context here, like that Dess seems to have disappeared a few years ago but The Knight has only recently started taking action, or that since Carol is the mayor she was presumably the one who fired Asgore in the first place>or doesn't want him showing dark worlds to other people.This at least we can explain with the information we have. It's not about the Dark World in itself, it's the fact that if Asgore was vindicated or anything else happened that led people to investigate Dess's disappearance again, it would lead people to the Shelter.The Shelter is being used as the base of operations for the conspiracy, Kris and The Knight have access to it and Undyne is being held there. Keeping people away from it is crucial, the plan can't afford to come under public scrutiny. This is the whole reason we assume Undyne and others are being targeted, they know part of the codes necessary to open the door.
>>733057698the festival getting canceled because of the church getting trashed would be a moral-pyrrhic victory for me, like how soriel wasbest realistic scenario for chapter 5 dark world is it being like the first sanctuary (and ONLY it) for the whole duration since that early chapter feel would be out of place now
>>733055041did he shid his pants
>>733054357kek
The Weird Route is the Marche Route.
how will toby punish people for playing the weird route?will he make it fuck your normal saves?will he release a malware on your computer to mine crypto?
>>733058924Noelle will randomly remember you're snowgraves in the regular route, but that would be a plus for me if she remembers
>>733046724This.We have NEVER seen Asgore angry.
Reminder that the "inferno of jealousy" is referring to Noelle crashing out over being jealous of both Susie and Kris simultaneously, or being jealous of Kris on normal route and Susie on weird route
>>733059406while i agree that noelle is most likely to burst, there are other characters that could be pushed to their breaking point in ch5asgore and susie also come to mind
>>733059406the dark world colors of noelle and susie fit more for friend colors. that and the ferris wheel.
>>733058924He won't, weird route is the good ending
I hate myself as well as society around me.
>>733059553It's your own damn fault Spamton.
Serious question for anyone who knows: Does freezing enemies during the snowgrave route count them as "lost"?
>>733059670Yeah you can't recruit them anymore even if you abort it.
>>733059718So the path to obtaining the thorn ring without using is can only be done through violence? for the sake of the twisted sword.
>>733059553I feel weird how we got yet another fight in front of a fountain with the Knight, but it didn't feel as astonishing as Spamton NEO was
>>733059807It's fine, Darkners aren't people. They exist to serve Lightners.
>>733059807Yeah, you can't have it all sadly.
>>733059927Yes however you can have up to three. and those can combine. Prepare yourself.
>>733059807>>733059927i meantechnically you can get the thorn ring with the overflow glitch on an all recruits run, but idk if that counts
>>733060240Essential for the golden ending btw
>>733059406Hard to say, like Noelle doesn't really mind that much when Kris is with Susie, but her reaction towards Berdly says something else, but obviously Susie would also like to spend time with Kris so there is potential she might get mad, and in the weird it's possible that it will be the reverse like you saidEveryone says Asgore but he is more busy with his conspiracy theories, and Kris so far doesn't have any strong reactions towards romanceThe shipping slop in the festival will be weird
>>733059406Asgore is getting cucked to death anon, I'm sorryThe sooner you make peace with this the better
Are people just being edgy or do they really think Toby will have the true ending of his "heartfelt journey of humor and friendship" be the one you terrorize an innocent girl?
>>733060542It's just a prank.
>>733060542>innocentlol
>>733060542Some people do reason that the only reason you'd do weird route from the perspective of a returning player is that you weren't powerful enough to get a good ending on the main route.
>>733060305>Noelle doesn't really mind that much when Kris is with Susie, but her reaction towards Berdly says something else,she does get a bit miffed when Susie says she got closer with kris after the diner scene, and runs away after susie says they're gonna spend time in the closet alone in ch. 2.
>>733060542You do get exclusive sweet moments between Kris and Noelle, freezing the bird and a bunch of darkness isn't that bad of exchange honestly
>>733060747>HOLY FUCK TENNA FUCKING KILL YOURSELF YOU SELFISH CUNT, WE DARKNERS LIVE TO SERVE THE LIGHTNERS MASTER RACEdamn okay Ralsei..
>>733060842it's kinda hot when ralsei does that... yes ralsei be my object and serve me
>>733059807The ThornRing is literally just thorns from a roseChapter 5's Dark World will be Asgore's Flower ShopIt is very likely that Chapter 5's Secret Boss will drop a second ThornRing so you can obtain the Twisted Sword after collecting all the Shadow Crystals and so Noelle can consummate your marriage in the Weird Route by putting a ring on Kris's finger
>>733060684counterpoint: you upset Susie
>>733060963ch. 5 gassed her up so fucking hard, she can take a little downpour.
>>733060542Playing nice doesn't change the prophecy and she likes being terrorized so it's okay
>>733056730>Spamton was likely the only other time we will see this level of villainy in Deltarune.the evil demon cat is right there
>>733061063Oh yeah Friend is so evil with his long list of fucking nothing he's done so far
Just realized after years that Kris just shapeshifts the sword into a shield lmao, always thought the shield was another objectThe bat transforming into a sword makes more sense now
>>733061063I don't feel he will be more of a jerk than Eram was. King and Spamton felt more grounded in their goals, specially Spamton who was just chasing personal revenge
>>733061137He gives you super high score in videogames, super evil
>>733061063Yeah but that's just it, FRIEND is some evil demon thing, King and Spamton are real bastards, they turned into assholes for a reasonI don't imagine FRIEND having any real character depth like they do
>>733061137he made a potential silent hill for kris and created mini kris
>I just wanted depressed teenagers to have sex>ACK
>>733061164That crossed my mind earlier when I was writing up >>733054667Lightners having their appearance and equipment change in the Dark World is precedent for The Knight's transformation. Susie's Dark World shows that the transformation can change depending on the environment of the Dark World. Dark Worlds are created with Determination, shaped by a Lightner's will, that's what brings things to life in the darkness.
>>733045102>Noelle has been using her sword too much, so it got twisted.
Sometimes when I get suicidal thoughts I think "I literally can't, chapter 7 isn't out yet".But what about when chapter 7 is finished...
>>733062508>But what about when chapter 7 is finished...then you wait for UNRELATED
>>733062508im a little ashamed to admit that deltarune is the sole thing I have to look forward to in my life
>>733062508You can't give up before Toby puts out NUDEALERT
>>733062508I want to make something
>>733062620susie uses axes, not swords
>>733062508same, I'm honestly dreading for when this is all over
>>733064280Someone has to use the cool black shard I won through hard work when Kris becomes Kings new cellmate.
>>733051189Question. So did kris go to visit Noele after we lost contact with him infront of the bunker? He said he gave the watch back and apologized but in chapter 4 I still have the watch on me.
>>733064519yes after susie left to go attempt to fix tenna, kris took berdly to the hospital and went to noelle's to apologize/ cover for what (you) didshe just happened to already be on the front porch when kris arrived
>>733048436I genuinely need to understand what was happening during this sequence. The game just froze the rain stopped and the color changed.
>>733064646kris was asked something and (you) were actively prevented from hearing what it waspeople like to pretend that it was noelle responding, but that doesn't make any sense with how we know the soul works kris blocked (you) out for a minute or two which made it seem like the game froze to answer susie's question unimpeded
>>733064646Beyond being spooky creepypasta stuff that the weird route does I think it's related to how Susie has the ability to ignore your choices, she can also ask questions you can't answer
>>733054667Hey so if this book is found within the Dark World based upon the church doesn't this mean that this text is religious in some way or form? Also unrelated but do you all think the festival is something related to the church and not a HomeTown tradition? Like how Christians have Christmas.
Little girls.
>>733064519Pretty much, but the watch thing must be a bug, seems they haven't fixed it yet?
the only way to get the good ending is for every sprite to be shown diagonally at least once
Slut.
>>733067638fake news kris is pure
>>733067730She's not!
>>733069561her heart is pure she just likes to do a little trolling once in a while
>>733069738>her heart is pure this is truewe are all virgins
>>733062508We might get Deltarune 2 about kids of Kris and Susie. Toby never explored actual human/monster parents and only now he wets fingers in HMOFA. Toby is only 35, there is at least 2 more games in him
>>733069891>deltarune 2it'll be Nut Dealerand it will live up to it's name
>>733069891I hope Japan radicalise Toby into full chud mode when he reach his 40's and middle age crisis
>>733070179He's a libtard, get over it.
>>733050524Simple, we fight his flowers instead. Pretty clear cut.
>>733053183Fanfiction because people notice the Knight is weird as shit but want Dess herself to be the knight.
>>733059538Coomer cope.
>>733060542It's contrarians and retards. Or both. Ignore them.
>>733051012How does that change the fact Kris is an AU Chara again?
>>733062508You make fanfiction, just like Toby wants you to.
>>733069891We need nude alert with human female protagonists.
>>733065482Human girls!>>733067638Are pure!
>>733069738This is true. Human souls are pure.
>>733035963Did something new actually happen, or is this a "I can't believe it's not a general!" thread?
>>733071170No. There's no real news. No new newsletter, too.
>>733064280Big if true.
>>733035963I always thought he was the Knight.
>>733046763Yeah, I am a humanbro but I am really glad Toby didn't put them into Deltarune. That way I can imagine them however I want.
>>733070964>Human girls are pureAll of them? Even Integrity the monstah killer?
>>733071380I like how PC and Japan are a priority before release
>>733065609Pretty sure there's special dialog from Noelle if you show her the silver watch, so dunno if its a bug.
>>733060542Yes? There's only one ending.
>>733072209And it's a kill or be killed world right?
>>733071958Yeah because her killing monsters is headcanon and fanfic.
>>733071965Toby LOVES nippon and has them as a priority. PC comes before consoles because he probably works on the PC version first
You can actually accurately discern how high someone's IQ is based on how they solve Toby Fox's "There's only one ending" comment80 IQ:>Toby is just going to do multiple endings that's gonna be the epic twist!!!90 IQ>There are going to be different endgames but only one actual true ending, duh?100 IQ>I can't really figure it out, but something seems fishy>110 IQ and aboveAs if I'd tell you, lmao
>>733072490where does "there's only one ending because all the wrong routes lead to some kind of softlock/unavoidable game over or something"?
>>733072531That's just a variation of 90.
>>733072490The ending is the same except the weird route will lead to a different ending that can't really be considered as one.
>>733072385Integrity did nothing wrong in either case.
>>733035963>dude what if the entirety of Rudy's character up until now was a complete lie?I'm convinced this shit is propped up by mikefags still butthurt they weren't able to predict the entirety of the game from two chapters.
>>733072949Honestly, probably. I guess we are going to see via her blue flower parallel in Deltarune. It's kinda funny since 2016 people always made that soul into a killer and huge part of the lore. Even old AUs like Inverted Fate did that.
>>733042014What is this supposed to indicate outside of eternal /v/tard faggotry?
>Carol>Gaster>FRIEND>Ralsei>Eggman>ERAMWho's winning the 4D Chess competition?
>>733072490There will be only one ending. Either all your choices lead to the same outcome or it forces you to reset until you do the ''correct'' route.Doesn't matter really, since there's something more important than reaching the end.
>>733042487I'm still baffled by that "grandpa semi" retardation
>>733073215I doubt the flowers will be clear parallel to the souls. Toby wants everyone to interpret certain things their own way, and giving the Soul parallels in the Flowers will take that away. So he either gives every flower they/them pronouns (which inevitably leads to every human now being nonbinary somehow) or they just... aren't definite parallels.
>>733073243Gaster because he made the game.
>>733073407I think they will parallel the souls traits and general role but not actually be the dead kids from Undertale themselves, obviously. Probably how Toby made Tenna to make remind people of Metatton and etc. Although to be honest I do think the flowers will be they/them or it/its outside of the golden one desu.
>>733072421as it should be, it make me believe he will end the game on HMOFA
>>733073243I just hope FRIEND is not just a meme and actual villain that manipulated Dess and Kris
>>733073243I find it interesting that we have up to four mystery evil characters (Mike, Friend, Eram and Knight) and a limited cast of characters who they could be, but nobody wants to entertain the idea that someone is secretly evil, so it is always talked around and avoided.
>>733073652Makes sense. Honestly i just hope Asgore's favorite show plays a role in CH5
>>733073893That's possible, too, although it will be related to the yellow cowboy flower.
Nobody but porn addicts genuinely want Dess to be the Knight
>>733073820The Undertale fanbase hates any character being seem as evil. I think it's because autists only see in black and white.
>>733073820>>733074227People speculate who the Knight is all the time. Mike, Friend and Eram all seem like darkners.What are you talking about?
>>733069891>there is at least 2 more games in himNo there aren't, his exploding wrists have made sure of it. After Deltarune the only thing you're getting out of him are minor collabs in games developed by others.
>>733072490Given how these memes usually go 110 IQ and above is just gonna be ">Toby is just going to do multiple endings that's gonna be the epic twist!!!" but written in a more elaborate manner.
This is my prediction that i will screencap with todays date to post when chapter 5 releases>Festival is fully forced Krusie or illusionary choice to choose between Krusie and pick Suselle into ferris wheel>Suselle is just Susie confessing to Noelle that she likes Kris and ask for advice which ends with cucked Noelle same way like Krusie choice>narration doesn't show Noelle that much affected>meanwhile Asgore is super melty over Sans and Toriel>narration imply Asgore is some chud who burned down the garden>the twist at the end of chapter 5 is that Noelle was responsible and credits appear with TO BE CONTINUED
>>733073281i hope it isn't the friends we made along the way because the soul situation threw that in the dumpster
>>733074539Not even Deltarune is true Tobycore. Only Chapter 1 is Toby's unfiltered vision.
>>733074762Don't be a fucking retard, Noelle is not going to burn down Asgore's fucking shop. I do think something might happen that will mindbreak her, though it's not gonna be her getting cucked, which I don't think is gonna happen in the first place, and she might open a dark fountain that will lead into Chapter 6 or something similar.
>>733074426I don't know what the other anon meant, I just wanted to point out Undertale fans hate morally gray characters.
>>733074895>Food analogyYeah, its... over...
>they/them [2]>[2]: "A philosopher who studies the ancient words. Their light-blocking mask is said to let them commune deeper with the truth of the dark." — Recruit descriptionDo troons not know what a third person is
>>733075189You have distorted.
>>733035963The real answer is that The Knight is a shared suit that both he and Carol use because the Knight in Chapter 3 is not the Knight in Chapter 4. The former was happy to stay hidden and manipulate shit from the sidelines to the point where Kris bashed Susie and Ralsei's heads in to keep their relationship secret. Meanwhile the Knight in the Sanctuaries is a mustache twisting anime villain who doesn't give a shit about how loud they go. Plus there's the screaming skeleton and liquid eye motif that seem to be exclusive to each chapter's Knight.
>>733036698She's the bad guy
>>733055783Carol called him for something, you don't call your friends child casually over nothing, seems like cope champ
>>733057975>or that since Carol is the mayor she was presumably the one who fired Asgore in the first placeShe wasn't always the mayor retard lmfao
>>733046170>Spamton following Jevil's setup is bad therefore the rest of the game should have done it even harder?????
>>733071430This Kris MUST be plapped, PRONTO.
Loli Krissy.
>>733075047Yes, toby is a true /v/irgin
Rudy Knight is retarded because it makes his entire setup a lie. He's not the well meaning parent that contrasts Carol's obsession, he's another person lying to Noelle. He's not a sick patient struggling to live, he's a supervillain who can manhandle a woman that can benchpress cars and drag her all the way to the bunker in less then a minute. It's completely retarded and makes absolutely no sense beyond "well we never saw these two in a room together."
>>733078239SLUT.
>>733075176>singular they has always existed chud!!>no not like that if it uses "they" must means that they le heccin non-binary pronouns-lover!!
Just watched Eyes wide Shut and I can't help but imagine Noelle somehow ending up at a place like that.
>>733075176>A philosopher (singular)>Their (referring to that philosopher)I don't know this sounds like a pretty straightforward use of "they/them" for a character.
>>733075176"He" "she" and "they" are all third person, ESL.
>>733077927>he's another person lying to Noellewho ISNT lying to noelle?
>>733079071>>733079220They're (sorry if I'm misgendering you) here...
>>733077927>He's not a sick patient struggling to live, he's a supervillain who can manhandle a woman that can benchpress cars and drag her all the way to the bunker in less then a minute.??? One thing doesn't invalidate the other, there are ton of villains that are sick as hell and temporary they are very strong, in fact maybe the dark world slowdown his sickness.
>>733079232YOU
>>733075315
>>733078417as the outsider or a cultist?
>>733077927>He's not a sick patient struggling to live, This can be true and Rudy can still be knight, especially with the Knight's lungs opening up in it's final attack.>he's a supervillain who can manhandle a woman that can benchpress cars and drag her all the way to the bunker in less then a minute.No Rudy Knighter believes that he can restrain Undyne remotely in any way. Dess Knight has the same exact problem, I have no idea why the insane cope of "UHH THE KNIGHT HAS POWERS IN THE LIGHT WORLD!" or "SHE GOT SNOWGRAVE'D IN 0.1 SECONDS" applies to one and not the other. If it's a hole for Rudy Knight, it's a hole for Dess Knight as well.Only AsgoreKnight and most likely CarolKnight doesn't have this problem.
>>733077428Calm down>>733077565Cute.
>>733077927Most Rudyfags think Asgore was the one who dragged Undyne away.
>>733079316wrong, if it were truly *ME i wouldve plapped the deer
>>733079448carol holiday? canonically btfo's the strongest monster in UT, in both the light world and dark world
Carol...
>>733073795Poor FRIEND getting slandered non-stop, xe helps you giving candy in the Eram fight, speed up the Spamton basement elevator and gives you high score in exchange for your life
>>733075315I like to imagine they basically trade that weird eyeball thing in the knights chest (probably the demon heart) between chaptersAND WITH MY NEW FOUND VESSEL WELL TEAR IT OUT OF CAROLS COLD FROZEN CHEST AND USE IT FOR OURSELVES
I think is Desshttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D7sTifuNSj4
>>733080221>exact same sound as noelle's screamNeed I say more?
>>733036698>>733039461The corkboards are not conspiracy boards, they're storyboards. Carol and Asgore are using the boards to outline the "stories" of the Dark Worlds, so that when the Knight makes a Fountain, the Dark World follows their design. Toriel just thinks they're writing books or movies or something, so she is worried about Asgore's descent into fiction while ignoring his reality (falling into his creation).
>>733080095FRIEND is just a mystery bait so people just project whatever into him.
>>733080221Kris doing more damage, more than Susie normal attack is the actual biggest mystery
>>733079982I prefer Rudy if the parent has to be the Knight.
>>733080985Knight has Kris's SOUL and Kris hates himself.
Is it weird to say that Gaster's mystery is the only thing keeping me going at this point? The world just keeps getting worse, happiness and success are a luxury only jews and elites can afford these days. I'm worried about what's gonna happen when I no longer have anything to look forward to.
>>733081634A bit. You shouldn't have too many high expectations for the Gaster reveal. He has so much fandom associated with him that I doubt he can live up to the hype.
>>733070712Guilty as charged. I am as God made me.>>733060542>>733060612I know full well that the weird route will probably be this games equivalent of the genocide route and I will get punished and have a moral fag lesson imposed on me. But I dont care. My reasoning is a combination of things. I want kriselle to happen so doing the weird route seems the best way to make that happen. I dont like the idea of Toby once again trying to preach to me the evils of violence, the world is a violent place and you dont get ahead by being a weak doormat. And lastly I resent that Kris resists me and works against my will and openly defies me often for no real point other than to mope and be pitiful.
>>733081228What if they're both the Knight and they take turns making dark worlds?
>>733077927
This shit works because it's fake the moment you get out of the internet and talk to people about this shit you realize what a retarded nerd you are
>>733082684If you thought genocide was moralfagging about violence in video games your opinions on Undertale and Deltarune are irrelevant.
>>733082890Is there anything worse than a failed normalfag?
>>733082701>>733079347Makes sense. There's two knight figures in Ralsei’s explanation of the Roaring
>>733082684Sorry but the ending is going to be worse and both Kris and Noelle will die.
>>733082894Hello fellow contrarian, welcome to the thread, enjoy your stay.
>>733046379Another thing to consider is that part of the internet considers Kris strictly as NB or female, only as male if paired off with Ralsei, so it still is heckin inclusiveAlso Krusie has genuine synergy, while Suselle is probably going to crash and burn because I feel like Toby wants drama in his character dynamics
>>733083131>you're a contrarian because you don't think a man making video games actually hates video games and hates you for playing them
>>733083095And? So what if it is? How else are we supposed to learn about the consequences of our choices and what works and what doesn't work? If thats the case so be it. But at least it will have been my decision and my courage to face the unknown, only weaklings need to take the safe and predictable route or more likely wait until someone else beats the game so they can spoil it for themselves and look up the optimal route before finishing it themselves.
>>733083131>pickris would break if he gets cucked
>>733083295I think he hates us for playing a certain way which doesn't align with his own pacifistic life philosophy and he actively punishes us for going against the way he wanted us to play the game. He is basically training you to be a pacifist. Which as the creator of the game is his right, but it is also my right to choose to go against what he wants to demonstrate that not everyone will fall in line.
>>733083435Haha, a chip off the old block!
>>733083095The Weird Route ending is gonna be you destroying reality.
>>733083576If you think Toby hates you for how you play his games your opinions on those games are irrelevant. Sorry, but Genocide wasn't about how you're "not supposed to play genocide". All Undertale and Deltarune want is for you to think about why you want to do things in games.
>>733082684>>733083576In case you missed it, Noelle and Susie are genocide players (While playing Dragon Slayers Susie did it accidentally, and Noelle did it as a completionist autist) and neither are portrayed as bad people for it.
>>733083887>but the characters get sad when I genocide them! Toby is ATTACKING me! he must hate me!
>>733083278This. Those faggots make Kris whatever gender it will make a ship with him gay.
>>733083295Toby doesn't hate you for playing a video game but he does think killing is the wrong choice.
>>733083408Fair enough. You're actually based.
>>733083408Unironically this is what the Weird Route is about. Defying the path laid out for you, by your school, your religion, your parents, and making your own decisions. Just be ready to deal with the consequences like an adult.
>>733083408
>>733084540>Laughed at a among us jokeIts over
>>733084168He does? Can you post an actual example showing this then? Because posting a screen from the fight against the enemies that directly make fun of the "you're supposed to play pacifist!!!" crowd isn't it.
Ralsei is going to burn the flower kingdom
>>733083576Toby doesn't hate you for playing the genocide route, he just thinks sparing your enemies, if there's the option to do so, is the "correct" choice, like >>733084168 says, but he doesn't hate you for not picking that choice, that's insane.
>>733084572Because Toby straight up says you didn't learn anything from Undertale if you kill them? All that seems to imply that killing isn't the right choice.
>>733084829He doesn't even think that. He just thinks that people make assumptions about games that they shouldn't.>>733084912Toby says you didn't learn anything about dealing with the wrong Undertale fans in 10 years if you mess up at dealing with his proxy for them.
>>733084756This, and he's going to leave the party too. Chapter 5 won't be kind to him.
>>733085034>Toby says you didn't learn anything about dealing with the wrong Undertale fans in 10 years if you mess up at dealing with his proxy for them.Now that's an unique interpretation
>>733084829>he just thinks sparing your enemies, if there's the option to do so, is the "correct" choiceWait until even THAT is subverted when you see the full prophency and it turns out Ralsei's plan (befriend everyone) made no sense and he just couldn't think of anything else.
>>733085224Any other interpretation I try to come up with is nonsensical, because the idea that Toby really wanted to shill pacifism as "the only option you should take" is nonsensical.
>>733085034I don't know how you can believe he doesn't think pacifism is the correct option when in his games the pacifist route always ends with you getting the best ending. To change my mind on this I would have to see a situation in Deltarune that can be resolved through both violence and pacifism, but the outcome for being violent is better than the outcome for being a pacifist.
>>733085231it was already subverted by Ralsei being super hardline pacifist in ch1 and being proven a fucking idiot by King of all characters.
>Rudy is the Knight>the SOUL is actually Dess's.What else?
Ralsei's plain is to sacrifice all darkners in one place ala FULL METAL ALCHEMIST.
>>733085331Because the ending you identify as "the best" doesn't have anything to it that would logically make it rewarding to someone who just wants to kill monsters. You have no incentive to go for the "good" ending unless you are attached to the characters. If you enjoy violence, the outcome of violence is always more conductive to your goals in a game, no?>but I'm not attached to the characters I just think I'm not supposed to kill them!That's you being attached to them.
He's underage btw
>>733083887Which reflects Toby's belief that no one is inherently violent or 'evil' just either stupid or obsessive and that if these poor innocent souls were only shown the wise path of the righteous (via his self insert Ralsie no less) then they would change their ways and walk the straight and narrow path.>>733083707No of course he doesn't hate you, he only browbeats you with the characters telling you what an awful person you are and codes the game to keep telling you that even if you start a new game and try for true pacifist. Yeah totally necessary and not passive aggressive moralfagging. >>733084101What about the rights of those kids the monsters killed? Does anyone other than Asgore ever get held accountable for that? Or is it purely a one sided set of moral standards levied against us?
The climax of chapter 4 is the mascot yelling>I WANT TO BELIEVE!>THAT IT CAN CHANGE!>THAT THERE ISN'T JUST ONE ENDING!and people still believe Toby saying "one ending" is completely straight-faced and not kayfabe for the game's theme of hoping in the face of hopelessness.
>What is the plot twist with the one ending thing?>OF COURSE THERE'S NOT ONLY ONE ENDING YOU'RE STUPID FOR TAKING THAT STRAIGHT>No, I mean what's the subversion>ARE YOU STUPID? THERE'S MORE THAN ONE ENDING!!!>No but what->YOU ARE RETARDEEEEEDActual certified retard, I should've included a 70 IQ portion just for this guy.
>>733085484>the characters calling you an awful person for killing them is Toby telling you that you aren't supposed to kill charactersWhy do you care what the characters think if you're here to kill them?>but what about the stuff for reloading your save?!You get that for silly pacifist things too.>BUT DA MONSTERS ARE EBIL!!!Sure.
>>733085485
>no egg if THE MAN sees you do weird route on chapter 2why
>>733085485https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/3820075/>We hypothesized that low intelligence makes the learning of aggressive responses more likely at an early age, and this aggressive behavior makes continued intellectual development more difficult. Anon... You're ngmi.
>>733085482Ok, fine, if you believe in subjective morality I think I can understand your logic. After all, the difference between everyone, or almost everyone surviving and living a happy life, and everyone being killed and the world destroyed, is entirely subjective, and thinking one is better than the other is simply a matter of personal beliefs, rather than some objective criteria. In this case, I think your logic is solid. But I still disagree, I do not think Toby is the kind of person to believe in subjective morality, and I really do not think this is the message he intends to transmit, even if it is one that can be perceived when viewing it through certain perspectives, like you're doing.
>>733085676our choices dont matter. however, kris choices does, and he will fuck us over
>>733085795The room to get there is replaced by an identical room with a different code value to put Spamton in the dumpster, and it is not coded to have a chance to take you to egg room
>>733085841>>733085650How was my post aggressive? I transcribed what Ralsei says. Sure I used caps but he is in fact yelling in that scene.Why not critique the content of my post and not this strawman you built?
>>733085284For me it's very clear Toby thinks pacifism is the best choice in his games, which is why you only get the full credits in the true pacifist route.
>>733085485You know, people who get executed by terrorists sometimes scream for help and beg for someone to save them, but them doing that doesn't change the outcome.
>>733085853>subjective morality... in fiction? Are you serious? All fictional morality is subjective, the moral implications of literally any action can shift just because you're in a scene with a different tone.>I do not think Toby is the kind of person to believe in subjective morality, and I really do not think this is the message he intends to transmitToby is telling you to nut up or shut up. If you're just here to make your stats go up and the enemy HP go down, then do that and stop bitching about the story "getting in the way". If you're just here to see the story through, then do that and stop bitching about the mechanics not being exactly to your taste. It's a long overdue lesson for the type of people who complain about winning in the game and losing in the cutscene.
>>733085993And for me it's very clear that if Toby wanted you to be just pacifist he wouldn't have included Genocide at all.
>>733085482The genocide ending makes Chara haunt any future true pacifist ending, which feels like a punishment for doing genocide.
I can't believe it's fucking 2026 and people are still posting about undertale moralfagging and shaming the player.
>>733086031Sorry but I still stand by what I said, I think you've formed an idea of Toby in your head that isn't actually true to life. But since we can't actually read Toby's mind I think we'll just have to agree to disagree.
>>733086098Consequences aren't a punishment
>>733085485The extra endings are the infinite narrative potential that Deltarune will have after the ending.
Post your favorite noelle semi-lewdsor just nsfwthread is hitting bump limit anyways
>>733086098Why is it a punishment? What is bad about Chara being in the true pacifist endings now?>They kill the other charactersSo what? You did.
>>733085351That kinda reminds me of Daniel Remar's IjiHe updated the game years after release and now pacifist route requires you to kill the invading alien force's 2nd in command that just wants to nuke the planet, and if you don't he subverts the chain of command and orders the invasion force to nuke the planet anyways.
>>733086098If you're "punished" by the characters not being alive and happy then doing genocide was itself a punishment. Why did you do that?
>>733086142Nobody would be talking about it if not for >>733084168It will naturally come up in the context of Deltarune, too. Just saying your thoughts about how Kris feels about the player is enough.
>>733086087There's no weight to your choices if there's no bad ones. >>733086167Fair enough, but there's no consequences for pacifism.
>>733086157I think you've formed an idea of Toby in your head that's directly incompatible with the games he himself likes and is drawing inspiration from. But fine, agree to disagree.
>>733086278Killing can exist without the genocide route. The genocide route is a reward. It's more content. Why would Toby add more content exclusively for "ignoring" the "point"?
What would Plato and Aristotle have thought of Undertale genocide route?
>>733086629Diogenes would show up and say toby fox is gay
>>733074925"vast garden" obviously is about Holidays mansion, its the only one with a garden in the game
>>733086023they should have done the weird route thenfucking skill issue
>>733080095I just dont want the end to be another Asriel redemption but with Dess. I want to kill some evil nigga like Titan
>>733080345Im glad im not the only Noelle Knighter. I personally think she is broken into split personality disorder where her Snowgrave thorn ring obsessed self is the one acting as Roaring Knight while her normal self is acting like the Suselle obsessed lesbian. Dess is most likely already dead or hidden in a coma as a happy twist like Satoshi in Higurashi no naku koro ni
>>733086916The Field of Pink and Gold, the vast garden, and the asylum. It's all Flower King.
My problem with Noelle knight is that it's too convoluted. It's the classic issue of not finding the middle point between too simple and too convoluted
>>733085676only your shipping choices matter
>>733087368no, it means it will be about Asgore in a flower shop as his asylum while theres fire in Holiday garden
>>733075597Nobody calls Carol the "new" mayor, or makes any reference to an "old" mayor. Nobody talks about her policies as if they're new, Carol being mayor is treated as the status quo. Her wealthy household and the fact that she controls one of the codes to the Shelter also indicate that she has been in a position of power for some time.Dess disappeared a few years ago, a significant amount of time but not that long. It could be imagined that Carol might have become the mayor as a way to seek control after Dess's disappearance, but there's no evidence to support this and we have every indication that Carol has always been a control freak. And even if she did only become mayor after the fact, that wouldn't change my assumption that she's the one who got Asgore fired when his investigation failed to produce any results and he became discredited when he started making crazy claims about the Dark World.As far as we know, as far as the story is concerned, Carol has always been the mayor.>* The mayor's charisma is about zero. No, it's negative.>* But she works hard and has a good track record, so she runs unopposed.>* Thaaaaaat's politics. Rarely.
>>733086186Tail sex>>733085985>YOU SUCH A FUCKIN HO I LOVE IT
>>733087491she's not anywhere close to Knight and never appear at the same time as him and Knight and its super weird Noele would never know nothing about Dark World like Berdly, even though she's around Carol and Asgore who know about it while Dess is very much aware of it and made a song about it
>>733087660Then why does the prophecy panel show him wearing a crown? He doesn't normally wear one in the Light World. Seems more likely the Dark World will be in Flower King which is where he will get the crown.
>>733086438Because a good choice has no weight without a bad choice existing. Toby doesn't think you're a bad person for killing everyone, just that it isn't the right thing to do.
>>733087865Yeah? He will have his Undertale skin in a Dark World which probably happen in his flower shop. What does it have to do with fire happening in the garden? The story will probably imply he set it on fire and hid himself in his secret place in the flower shop. But it will be revealed fire is unrelated and caused by Noelle the schizo
>>733086916The computer lab isn't a city and Kris’s house isn't a set of islands. It's talking about the Dark World.
>>733086186How am I supposed to get off to Noelle if I can't see her tail?
>>733087984This is the dumbest, most convoluted shit. Asgore fucking grows flowers in his shop, so saying>"vast garden" obviously is about Holidays mansion, its the only one with a garden in the gameis actually retarded. Flower King is a garden.
Rape Kris.
>>733088208it has nothing to do with dark world? You are only connecting the dots because you think Asgore is the only possibility who can feel jealousy and char the garden. But the fire and jealousy has nothing to do with fields of pink and yellow or a man in asylum
>>733087942Neither choice is good nor bad. They simply are.
>>733088341Don't rape human girls.
>>733088520Agree to disagree. Genocide is the evil choice while pacifist is the good choice.
i think 3 chapters aren't enough to tell the whole story tbsqhfalaman
>>733088341id rather be inside kris with her consentoh wait were already doing that
>>733088636Don't worry bro each chapter will be like 5 hours long, trust.
>>733088430>But the fire and jealousy has nothing to do with fields of pink and yellowYou actually haven't played the game. Holy shit.
empty school
>>733084829You don't know toby then.
Humans and does...
last for raping the fucking knight
>>733088636Toby will cram everything at the last minute like he did with Undertale in New Home.
>>733088597Wrong and your view is actively harming discussion so I won't agree to shit.
>>733088636After chapter 7 comes out, we'll get another update that changes the entire game to allow for Noelle to join the party and more content
>>733088738bro are you pretending to be retarded>GersonTitles the chapter based on dark world inside flower shopThen says whats the main plotline burning a garden by Noelle due to jealousy. >Sanctuary prophecyIs about Asgore inside his flower shop probably messing with his Undertale flowers and opening the portal, he has nothing to do with the fire and jealousy
>>733088908Like you could handle all of this
>>733089052>Asgore has nothing to do with fire and jealousy
>>733089085correction - Toby will make you think its about him due to Soriel just like you think Carol is the knight due to katanas
>>733089019How is my view even harming shit? Anyways you can be a sore loser I guess. It's not going to change the weird route having a bad ending.
