Do people just not play MMOs anymore?They all seem to just be retracting in population and new MMOs just fucking die outside Runescape, and surprisingly nu-Maplestory, but their growth is pretty gradual and happens in waves so you barely notice it.You guys still play them? If not anymore, what did you move onto?
Futa penis
>>733096797mmos are just using the same skinner box for daily grind.i can just do that but in another universe. i think this model exists even more nowadays because we're not developed to fight against it but the players who fall prey to it are anti-socical by nature so they would prefer an mmo without the player engagement.also that goat is ugly
The MMO genre is still going strong. It's just that it's very hard to get into this market since you'll be competing with games that already perfected their craft and had decades to put content out.
>>733096908Flippy bippy
>>733096954too bad about the rpg part
>>733096797>Do people just not play MMOs anymore?I do. Everquest is my main MMO at the moment. Started playing it 5 years ago having never played before and ended up loving it so much it's been in the top of my favorite MMOs of all times.>They all seem to just be retracting in population and new MMOs just fucking dieThere is a widespread notion that MMOs need to constantly have fuckhuge numbers around those of 00s' MMOs when the genre was at its all-time peak. This is a misconception further perpetrated by investors that expect millions for profit and Sharif-like scamsters that inflate the expectactions around their projects to get funding and pull the rug.There are enough smaller scale MMOs that have been around for years that are just slowly building up content retaining their playerbase delivering what it wants.Tibia, Project: Gorgon, EverQuest 1 and 2 ones I myself am fond of.There are also quite some interesting projects currently under development that do not go for the route of widespread aggressive advertising when there is no product available yet still: Spirit Vale, Apogea, Adrullan Online, Monsters and Memories. Whenever they host playtests it's always a blast of a weekend for me checking out what else have they put out.Do not expect any new MMORPG to give the feel of "bigger than life" how it was 20 years ago. Do not expect them to have dozens of thousands concurrent players, there's simply way too many games out there so the MMO-inclined population is spread across them. The moment you undestand that a couple hundreds of people online is more than enough to have a good time you'll begin noticing more interesting projects that are on the low profile
>>733096797yeah we just jack off instead
There aren't any good action mmos apart from PSO 2 but that's ruined by NGS and its community.
>>733096908CAUSE THERES NO COCK LIKE HORSE COCKSEND YOUR ASSHOLE INTO SHOCK
mmorpgs are a lonely experience in 2026. there used to be a spread of people playing em, but now its old nerdy people. sure you can still play the game, but its not a social experience.
>>733096797Ive been maining project gorgon for about a year now. Its very fun. Kind of sick of wow clones.It recently launched into 1.0 and brought a load of new players so they opened more servers.My off mmo is Mabinogi though great it is becoming more and more wow esque
>>733098102now i feel bad for forgetting spirit vale, i had a good time there.good post
>>733096797on the off chance this isn't the dude who uses AI to 'argue'mmos are largely a gen x/millenial thing. the novelty of playing a game with other people became mundane in the 2010s so all you have left are people who play super casually and/or pay rent on their misspent youth
>>733096954help me i am fucking indian
Souls remnant : fun indie mmo inspired by maplestory and mabinogi.It has regular playtests usually around steam next fests.I play every one and i have loved the progression of the game. Cant wait for release. Last test added basic equipment and character creation. Has scrolling from maplestory, random dungeons like mabi, fun grappling hooks, nice skill tree with lots of combos, classless, and more stuff.Dev is a tranny tho but i think autism is the best game dev trait. Made in Godot too which is neat.
>>733099269Zoomers and gen alpha play mmos too.They are just built inside fortnite and roblox. They all suck too but its all they play so they dont know any better.Some faggot, such as (You), should make tiktoks about good mmos and robloc so the audiences mix.
>>733096797Exactly why i'm not playing online games at all. Vidya time is "me time" and i want to play a game at my own pace. That means if i want to stand around and look at a chair for 10 minutes i will do just that and i don't want anyone to tell me to hurry up. Just like i don't want anyone in my game that impedes my progress. But most importantly i don't want the game(or the players) punishing me for playing my favorite class fantasy. If i want to play a sword/board warrior i don't want anyone to tell me i should switch to axes because they are just better or that ARs suck ass and i need to use SMGs.Besides all that being EU is a curse. You have to play with everyone from Ireland to Moscow and from Finland to Morocco. People either don't have a mic, if they do they don't speak english and if they do speak english it's basically incomprehensible gibberish.I'd love to get into another MMO but the communities that tend to play MMOs are not people i want to spend any time with. Both, the parsers and the 50 year old schizo cat ladies.
>>733096797mmos almost all became live service treadmills and neglected every aspect that made them unique or interesting for the sake of grind/engagement. gacha games do the slop part 10x better, have waifus and make more money too.mmos "advanced" towards being a dead pointless genre.
>>733096923>mmos are just using the same skinner box for daily grind.We need a sandbox MMO or for a popular themepark to implement sandbox servers or to make materials and the world matter.>>733096954I don't think people want dozens of hours of leveling and however much M+. It should be pretty easy to mog WoW if you design and advertise exactly how much more there is to do than mount run and whatnot. New World got enough hype to get 100k concurrent for a few months, but again, it had leveling, and materials that didn't matter because it was just linear ilvl pushing.1/2
MMOs need time to grow their playerbase. Most studios today don’t have that time. Big marketing campaigns can bring in players quickly but they don’t keep them around.That’s why most of the best MMOs are over 10 years old.
>>733101579>>733098102>Do not expect any new MMORPG to give the feel of "bigger than life" how it was 20 years ago. Do not expect them to have dozens of thousands concurrent players, there's simply way too many games out there so the MMO-inclined population is spread across them.It's possible. Just make a living world.>>733098721Community is a game design problem.>>733099269PvP games are the most popular games; people obviously like the social and competitive atmosphere. An MMO has a lot to compete with, but MMOs have amount of players and a persistent world, making them the best genre.>>733100952An MMO will be the most played game.2/2
>>733096797People are shit, simple as that. Younger gens ruin everything, older people retire.The average mmorpg player is dumber than a rock.
>>733096797I'm still waiting for Tera 2
>>733101963like 10 years later if it even leaves preproduction stages
>>733101963Remember when that team made another mmo, elyon, and it just sucked and had no elin?
>>733102040It's just a never ever wish, anon>>733102180I have vague memories of that, yeah
there's very little room to propose something novel outside of the two main players: WoW and OSRS.WoW has constant updates that renovate the game every 2 or so years. You can criticize the quality of the content, but it's incredible how better it is to the competition in both gameplay (yes, even after the new addon changes and so) and fights, plus it has grown with the players making it able to retain people.OSRS gives you all the freedom you can have in what to do and it's always an incremental game. Most of the old content is viable in current year (yeah I know a few minigames aren't, that's why I said most). Having a game where 90% of the things you do are relevant, and where you can leave for years, come back, and still feel like your progress is valid makes OSRS stand out.I believe these two, either by sheer luck or because they had godlike direction, were able to know right away how to exploit and maintain their niche. If you are a new company trying to propose a new game, you will have to copy the tried methods that each one has, so there isn't much you can propose to that makes your game distinct imo. This has made the genre feel stuck over the last 20-15 years.
>>733101963you might have a better chance waiting for some madmen to release a decent private server for the original gamei cannot trust modern devs funded by modern investors wanting a modern audience
>>733102570I knowI know
>>733101643i don't think you'll ever get a competently built world, ever. even extremely successful games like wow, eq and final fantasy couldn't manage their issues and gave up on it.the best hope for the genre is that someone lucks into making a decent foundation and others iterate.
>>733096797Yeah well all the popular MMOs are basically copies of one another. Except OSRS. Funny thing about OSRS is that I see people praising it and calling it a sandbox, but in reality it's basically a singleplayer game that happens to have other people out in the world
Lately I've been experimenting with a bunch of different MMOsDreadmystApogea OnlineProject GorgonSo far I'm enjoying Gorgon the most
>>733104214the market/ge aspect of osrs is an essential part of the game in so many ways, unless you play ironman/him
>>733096797The whole point of MMOs originally was the social aspect of it. Going around talking to people, having fun doing quests with randoms. It was before shit like discord existed so talking to random strangers was still fairly novel. Nowadays the social aspect has pretty much been streamlined out of mmos. All that remains is grindslop.
>>733102478>there's very little room to propose something novel outside of the two main players: WoW and OSRS.>If you are a new company trying to propose a new game, you will have to copy the tried methods that each one has, so there isn't much you can propose to that makes your game distinct imo.•No leveling.•Full gear trading.•Material repairs durability.>>733103351You just have to have reasons to be out in the world. WoW and such fail at needing anything but dungeons and raids. The fix is making gathering, crafting, trading, WPvE, and WPvP matter. Crafting loops can be such a huge way to feel knowledgeable/important and to make money. Making money meaningful is really important.>>733104462I don't think people really grouped up that much for quests. It was still novel being out in the world because of all the potential. I think "usually solo" is the best way to design an MMO -- just scale WPvE bosses to how many players are engaging. People want to do a lot of content to have the best chance at getting lucky, and the percentage of people who aren't going to group very often is probably huge, so designing a bunch of content that respects solo power is a good idea; you can scale engagements for groups.
the MMO market is almost a monopolyevery popular franchise is 20+ years old, how do you compete with that
>>733104334True but you don't really interact with other people that much. You see them around, sure, but you don't group to do quests (aside from one or two), or dungeons, aside from doing raids at very high levelMany people play ironman, or have entity hider on too
>>733105802>That receptionistSilly bitch, that Draenei's future boyfriend is going to be so racist he doesn't even like black humans
>>733096797The only good MMOs are Ragnarok Online and MapleStory but RO is ass now and I'm waiting for Classic World
>>733105505This defaults to "themepark vs. sandbox", right? Can WoW provide enough quality of life that they don't get completely mogged by a living world?
>>733106936with any luck classic world is a hit and forces nexon to focus on it over modern maple adding more classic + contentmuch like osrs did to rs3
>>733096797People have too many options for online socialization for MMOs to thrive as they used to. Anyone still left is playing the same MMO they've been part of for the past ten to twenty years, or they're hopping from one fotm to the next.
>>733096908personalami is great. generally always does with penis and without and both are great
>>733104214OSRS gets 250k concurrent, but the demand for a 1M+ concurrent game is obvious. See New World.>>733109729You could probably pull some players from CS2 for it being a spray pattern / head-clicking game and from DOTA and League for being shallow compared to trinity and ability count -- from both for them being lobby sims instead of a persistent world.
>>733109896I appreciate all the variants. Just delete the ones you don't want
Burning Crusade Classic just launched, and had so many people, the game was unplayable for an hour when the portal opened.
>>733110004It's true people want a new MMO. In fact there are millions of MMO players wandering the desert that is the current MMO genre, craving for water. This is the reason they latched on to Ashes of Creation, but it was yet another mirage. Same went for New World, it was just more of the shit we've been shoveled for 20 years. It just can't hold people's interest
>>733096797I'm currently playing through ff xiv and that shit is so brain dead it is hurting me.I'm 10 levels above any mob just Form doing the Main quest. Dungeons are faceroll. Quests are never more than run here, click something, then either watch a cutscene or 2 shot a trashmob.I am playing with a friend and we have to leave the group every few quests because we can't enter story instances together.The story is fine, but nothing about this feels like I'm playing an mmo. Just a singleplayer game with some multiplayer coop content occasionally.
>>733110004>OSRS gets 250k concurrent,at least 100k of that are bots, btw.
>>733096797Social media replaced MMOs.
>>733110663I bounced off twice during ARR and HW and it was only in the SB content drought I finally broke through. I guess try to join a Free Company so you see other people. There is, or at least there was some level of community engagement. I don't know the state now because DT pissed me off so badly I still haven't played since August of 2024
>make an MMO with the combat and lifeskills of New World, and the questing of Runescape.>best MMO everIt's unironically that simple, really.
>>733096797I still play Warcraft but only on a single player server setup for myself and playerbots. I got sick of dealing with chink goldfarmers and meta-tards that feel the need to optimize every .01% of damage in an easy game that's older than most people that post on 4chan. Especially since I prefer RP servers and the roleplay community as a whole is fucking dead last I checked. Also since the rp community stopped giving a fuck about the lore (just like Blizzard did lol) and everyone also just started to use discord to roleplay instead of doing it naturally in game (and those fags always just want to erp instead goddamnit. I don't want to deal with fucking perverts and their weird fetishes that they always try to bring up. I just want to be a fucking nerd and roleplay actual characters in the world like the good ol days.)
>>733096797I play L2
>>733105802Human women seething about Draenei/Elf/Worgen women taking all the Human men is an underutilized joke.
>>733110663i can say as someone who played when ARR released, it used to be better and not have this huge disparity, classes played like classes instead of roles with a different color pallet people playing were a lot less deranged so you were able to have conversationi will say overworld group content was only marginally different, that has always been this game's weak pointall that shit is instancedi do miss FATE trains in coerthas, made a lot of friends through those
>>733111034i wanna set this up eventually, it sounds comfy, i got spooked before because the installs all seemed to have cryptominers
>>733111079Gigabased. For me, it's Titan.
>>733110501Does it still have phasing? That ruined Classic, and I can't imagine early WoW doing well with such an anti-social world. WotLK had severe problems with players getting past lvl 10 (30%), and recent statistics total 50% from 10-25. 15% past lvl 25, if you combine early and recent trends, is extremely awful. What do you think, /v/?
>>733111519wouldnt this be indicative of a botting problem?
>>733111342It's really not that hard to do. You just have to actually devote the time to setting it up. I'd stay away from repacks since those are what had issues with cryptominers in the past. If you want, here's the guide I followed to setup a server on azerothcore that worked fine. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UG900F19GPk&t=627sSetting up Azerothcore yourself is also nice since you can easily install whatever custom modules you want to add things like transmog, unlocked class/race combos, etc or you can just leave it 100% vanilla. Compared to repacks that will just have whatever random shit the person who made the repack decided to add to the server.
>>733112308i appreciate the link, I will give it a try
>>733110652I like New World so much. It has so many professions: Mining, Logging, Harvesting, Skinning, Fishing, Smelting, Stonecutting, Weaving, Woodworking, Leatherworking, Weaponsmithing, Armoring, Engineering, Jewelcrafting, Arcana, Cooking, and Furnishing. It could've had localized resources instead of routes you have to look up on YouTube. I wonder if the gameplay is fun enough to carry 1M concurrent if they make the world living. All they would have to do is require materials for repairs, maybe give a small redesign from having to do chest runs for certain goods, make solo PvE give good drops -- but they should definitely not prevent trading post sell orders from being posted because you're over weight on your city storage (you can soft-lock your economy if you have a bunch of buy orders being fulfilled). Material repairs would vastly increase material demand, and, though I'm not sure gathering is fun enough to do all of the time until you capture a city or max crafting, I *really* enjoy Logging, Mining, and Skinning, and the action combat can keep things like Skinning the most powerful beasts really engaging, not to mention Arcana and Cooking -- maybe everybody else does too.
>>733110852I don't think many people value Twitter more than playing their favorite game or whatever's most popular. If it's anything like Twitch (maybe 5% of people have more than 15 viewers), people aren't going to be motivated to do it.
I played 20.000 hour in my 20s. In my 30s I'm a married man with 3 sons trying to run a business. I tried Throne and Liberty most recently and it was fucking amazing, could have easily sunk another 1000 hours into that game. Until I realised I get to play at best 2-3 hours per day and not even guaranteed to play those in a single setting. Which means I'm a major burden on any group or guild I play with. At that point I was so dissatified with my own performance I quit the next day. I made it to (at the time) max level while solo though and it was great.Now stuff like Elden Reign Night Reign suit me much more because I can actually be done after 30 to 45 minutes and do something else.
>>733110979I don't think questing is going to be what a majority of people do in an MMO with various options to get items and money. It may be something like 50% tops, but if questing was so popular, people wouldn't have so many problems leveling in WoW (the stats are awful; I mentioned them already in this thread). I think it's going to be closer to 10%-25%, and you could probably keep those people happy with the Town Board that New World has, plus faction quests, maybe with a few tweaks to both.
>>733096797If people want an MMO they can just go on X.
>game needs to have a player driven economy>game needs to have professions/skills outside of combat>game needs to have horizontal progress so that content stays relevant for more than one cycle>but it must also have vertical progress so that players can keep chasing the carrot>game needs to have dungeons for 5 people content, but also raids for bigger teams>game needs to feel rewarding>but it also must feel like a time sink>combat needs to have depth and skill, so that it isn't just pressing 123 all the time>but it can't be overly complex as if learning a degreeI mean, obviously this is a bit too much, but I think it's extremely complex and time consuming to develop the right systems to have enough of everything
>>733110652The problem is any new MMO is compared to the current big three MMOs. If the new MMO drifts away from any of those three it'll fade into irrelevancy.
>>733096797>The only mmo that can give you what you want from mmo are hardcore old mmos>Nobody fucking loves start in hardcore old mmo>So no money are for new hardcore old mmo>Really old hardcore mmo are plagued by the shitty desigions and nobody want to play shitty with visuals>There literally ZERO fucking improvements to the genre in "next wow killer 50000" when it launches>Best and most novel "MMO" experience I had is unironically WWM
>>733096954The "decades of content" talking point is almost never true, old content is rarely maintained and just becomes a thing the player can never experience again as designed and can just shit all over solo.
>>733114259The game also needs to feel like a real world, world of warcraft had that down, despite being a game it felt like you were actually in a different world, with different races and factions modern mmo's don't understand that, they try to sell you a game, and give you shit to do, but don't sell you the idea of there being a world beyond just, go to x person and deliver y item. WoW felt like so much more. Dunno about modern WoW tho since I haven't played since cata.
>>733114332I would argue it's the opposite. Why would players decide to go to another game, that probably does everything worse, than the one they're comfortable with and have been enjoying for the past decade+? A new MMO has to differentiate itself with something else than a different coat of paint, if it wants to truly attract players that stick around for longer than couple of months
I recently said fuck it and decided to go back to L2 on Reborn Signature. I played it aeons ago but never got far I think only getting to the very first class change.So far now it's been quite comfy just leasurely leveling, exploring and questing but by now I'm level 31 and the free weapon they gave me is getting extremely weak but from what I've seen it's super difficult to get anything better at this point. Nobody in the player shops sells any low tier weapons and the ones in the NPC shops cost ungodly amounts for me right now. It's slowly getting less comfy until I somehow figure this out.
>>733114515Decades of pets/mounts/collectathon nonsense is usually true.
I still play classic EQ1 and City of Heroes Old MMOs literally are just better
>>733114563Because despite people wanting something new they'll always compare it to the MMO they came from. These people just want a new hype MMO to play that is like their old one.
>>733111270me member, the fate run in coerthas with the dragon at the end and the cannons was fun. I sadly quit playing after Shadowbringers and don't really have any desire to ever return to the game.
>>733096797>modest tits>wide hipsOh yes.
>>733114668they think they do, but they don't
>>733111740What do you mean?
>>733114535in some ways modern wow feels more like a virtual world with housing and the profession revamp inyecting more things to do outside of raids, but overall the issue with the game is that the internet around it changed.Now most people socialize in discord and log in to do specific content like M+ or Raids, and PvP has it's own separate world for specific people that never really felt part of the RPG.I don't fault Blizzard in making the changes they did, they simply were lucky that the concept worked at the specific time it did (before social media, before the massification of the internet, but right after PC's and the internet were accessible to people).Legit I think the closest a game has to being a world is Foxhole, the "operations" and level of specification that people do in that game is really fun.
>>733099925this and spiritvale are restoring my hope
How did the French manage to make the best MMORPG of 2026?
i still hop on BDO from time to time to see how the state of the game is and ogle my dark knight after a grind session and some bossessad to see it in the state it is in nowlikely due to Crimson Desert
>>733114162Like I said earlier, few people are going to have a lot of followers, and what are they going to do either way, send messages back and forth all day with somebody that finally messaged them back? A game is obviously more engaging and fun.
>>733114584You don't figure it out. You make alt characters and start grinding. You NEED to have a dwarf if not two and then you need someone to buff you as well. Most people start their spoil/craft/buff bots first and then roll their main character
>>733116712Ah I see. I've heard of that too. I guess I can try that at least see how different classes go. I really love the look feel and aesthetic of L2for a while I played L2R all the way to the end game. Even got top arena spot as a Swordsinger. I missed L2 then and recently I decided to give it a go again like 20 years later. Still feels nice
>>733096797I barely tolerate paying money for games once, the idea of paying monthly for the same game just don't sit right in my soul.
>>733114259>but it must also have vertical progress so that players can keep chasing the carrotI don't think this is true (on the level of "do content, get higher ilvl, repeat"). You can give some advantages (I'm really interested in 100%-300% damage; speed; CC avoidance and increases), but any permanent segregation of players and obsolescence of the world is strictly not an option.>but it can't be overly complex as if learning a degreeI don't think any contemporary MMO combat is like that. I'm not even sure you could do that outside of overturning kill windows, which isn't really complexity, just sustained performance.
>>733116842L2 is great, once you taste that sort of scale and freedom that this game has, few mmo games can match up to it. And it has a certain sort of charm to it too that no other game quite managed to recapture and a really fascinating game world.
>>733096797tab combat has peaked and the wait for the action combat king can take decadesif riots and GW3 both flop it s probably the end for western mmosextra point - US AAA game making is dying and there is-was a lot of expertise in mmos there
>>733114515What do you mean? It is absolutely true. In WoW you have decades worth of mounts, transmogs and you can also replay each expansion through the time travel gimmick even if it is not a 100% accurate experience. In OSRS you have to do the hundreds of quests that were released over the years which is actually a problem because the quest cape is becoming just way too much work and Jagex is already considering letting you wear it with some tolerance on incomplete quests.
>>733096797Live service games have taken over the mmo space. Zoomers kill everything good.
>>733117274Tactical kings can carry MMORPGs.>>733117513WoW lacks content.>>733110004OSRS is a side game. People just leave it on a second monitor. Jagex has carved themselves a good easy niche for money.
>>733117260Yeah. It's actually kind of dare I even say, neat, in the beginning that tping is costly because then I just enjoy my time walking from city to city like going from Gludio to Dion and Gludin and stuff. Yes it takes time but it's also comfy and at least if you stick to the roads it's pretty safe. Looking at the overall world map, it's crazy how much there is and I've only just barely scratched the tip of the iceberg. Really want a better sword though...
>>733117119some spec/classes in wow really got to a stupid point where you actually needed addons (weakauras more specifically) to tell you when to press buttons, because it was impossible/impractical to check all the buffs in your bars to the point where you could do optimal damage.I said that point because now in Midnight they are dumbing down the specs to the point where you can do all that without needing outside help to track things, and the more sweaty tryhard players were complaning about how the game was made easier. Personally I think that's retarded, but you always have "those" kind of people.So with that in mind, I'm sure that you need some level of complexity, but not so much where there are 5 conditionals that can randomly proc and those 5 affect what should be your next button press.
>>733117774You're a retard that does not play games. WoW has more content out of any MMO in the market and possibly out of any game to ever exist.OSRS is only a second monitor game if you want it to be. It has thousands of hours worth of extremely active content, and some of its raids and challenging content are way harder than any other MMORPG.
>>733117885lost ark has much harder raids than wow. also i can t stomach tab combat anymore extra so for pvp
>>733114332Just have>Good art design.>Engaging combat.>Economic risk:reward (material durability).>A fun socioeconomy (lots of profession and trading variety:depth).>Introduce lore in various ways every once in a while.A fun world and some instanced content are all you need.
>>733117885wow is seasonslop, you don't do old content
>>733118063you know transmog trannies and mount collectors (casuals) make most of wow population right?The only people that obsess over seasonal content are M+ and Raid players, which aren't the overall majority.
>>733114332why do you think a new mmo maker will target the older players playing those games which is a niche that s ever smaller instead of zoomers?do you think zoomers will play shit like ff and wow?100% you play wow
>>733117815It was also real surprising and cool to see just how many people are still playing nowadays. Like really shocking so many. I didn't know what to expect when I first stepped in Giran but wow. They're all way over my head for now though. Just wish someone sold some lower tier gear. Most I've seen for Ds are brig armors even in like Dion.
>>733118318>do you think zoomers will play shit like ff and wow?if it gets enough hype yes, ff14 is full of zoomerszoomers don't play games based on merit, just whatever is popular
Here to shill Gorgon againLooks like a 2004 game, plays like RuneScape + Asheron's Call, growing playerbase, and generally comfy, launched 3 weeks ago
>>733114889>the profession revampQRD?
>>733096954>games that already perfected their craft>MMOslol
>>733118465I tried playing it some years back but I didn't like the janky gamefeel and bloated item amount. No idea what to delete from my inventory.
>>733117274>tab combat has peaked and the wait for the action combat king can take decadesThe problem with that statement is that the best tab target combat is stuck in a game that a huge majority of players don't want to play. Just copy WoW's combat (and make those hugely fun gains that some classes have had before getting nerfed) and put it in a living world. Tab target is fine; approximately nobody has optimized it while having a fun realm.
>>733119157fine isn't good enough for me, we already had great online games with amazing action combat in the past, so no, i won't be playing a new mmo with "fine" combat
>>733118647Yeah, I'm kind of neutral on loot system, and I guess I'm used to lankiness, but Gorgon has this something that makes spontaneous grouping/partying workPlayers team up with each other in non instanced dungeons and take on the bosses, then spilt the loot among themselvesI don't know what it is, but there's a spirit of camaraderie in the gameJust today, I saved a pair of new players from Augmented Giant Mantis that was about to annihilate them.They thanked me and gave me Venison, which I needed for a questIt's things like that and sense of adventure that caused me to no-life this game for 2 weeks already
The action combat king is PSO2. Before NA servers and NGS ruined everything.
>>733118465$25 upfront is a hard sell for an MMO. I suppose I should try the demo before rattling off my retardation though.>>733119803Its amazing how out of touch Sega is with their own moneymakers, not even just on the PSO side. They had a cash cow for nearly a full decade and then trashed it.>>733114332Much like twitter or discord alternatives, despite being fresh grounds they typically do something critical WAY worse than their competition.User expectations also end up being "where is the 10 years of content I haven't gone through yet? shit game"
>>733117991The huge majority of the PC gaming demographic (which is 1.5B) either hasn't played any, or hasn't experienced high level, tab target combat, especially PvP. It also has a lot of room for class fantasy (improved GCD; lower CDs -- not that 5 minute and 20 minute stuff; better kits, especially to mitigate large group damage or CC so that people can engage and disengage more freely). WPvE isn't usually as engaging as it could be if mobs and bosses were more player-like, but tab target is really fun when playing dungeons, raids, and instanced PvP -- good enough to hold up maybe indefinitely.
>>733117885WoW has little content because everything that isn't a max level mythic or raid is worthless.OSRS is fundamentally designed as a second monitor game. The fact you can autism over it doesn't change the fact the majority of time played is practically eyes off.
How is project gorgon?
>>733121375It looks interesting. Graphically ass. Systems wise it may have depth.
>>733118318I haven't played WoW since BFA after being duped into thinking it was the fated Horde vs. Alliance xpac.Actually even the big MMOs now are changing course to target the younger audience look at FFXIV the director did an interview before Dawntrail was released and said the goal of that xpac was to target the younger audience; low and behold Dawntrail story was absolutely abysmal dogshit. Content-wise Dawntrail was good.
>>733096797Imagine the smell of the thick meaty horse cock.
>>733119979>where is the 10 years of content I haven't gone through yet? shit gameAnother problem with the modern game audience today is they all rush towards end-game and then when the end-game isn't all there they bitch and complain. Ignoring the world over the playable content which in a MMO is ridiculous an MMO should have fun playable content but ignoring the world for only the end-game is retarded. So what ends up happening is any new MMO has a boring as fuck world because they only focus on end-game and when the younger crowd is bored of it they drop it and then people who do care about the world are left with digging through shit.
>>733118642M+ is the obvious innovation to dungeon and raid spam not having good rewards.I also think WoW PvP is really fun. I don't know why they haven't made an esport out of it yet.
>>733099575I would never.
>>733119243I meant good, anon.
>>733096954>The MMO genre is still going strongit's completely dead actually. WoW and FFXIV are the only "MMO"s left, and neither of them is actually an "MMO" because they've morphed back into MUDs. there's no content that happens in a "massively multiplayer" world, it's all 5-10 player instances.
>>733121868That's a leveling problem.
>>733121892>WoW PvP is really funIts one of the most mechanically satisfying games to play. I refuse to give nuBlizz money though. Haven't played in almost 10 years.
>>733119803>The action combat king is PSO2that is sad
>>733119803I really liked PSO2 combat, but I do think there were better action combat games, either way it pisses me off that developers just refuse to make actual combat in MMOs.
>>733114259>>game needs to have dungeons for 5 people content, but also raids for bigger teamsthis mindset needs to die in MMOs
>>733096797Playing wow tbc anniversary just made me want to boot up Dark Souls 3 again. Sorry, FROM just makes better games. I think it's time to come home to FROM.
>>733096908need a dommy mommy futa draenei gf...
>>733122742>developers just refuse to make actual combat in MMOs.It's not what the majority wants and isn't marketable.
I legit want to play Maplestory Classic. I just like the way old games were designed with long grinds.
>>733122875>MMOs need to have multiple avenues of content for different people>this mindset needs to die in MMOswhy?
>>733114259>game needs to have horizontal progress so that content stays relevant for more than one cyclethat's like 4 MMOs ever.
>>733123265Raiding is terrible and not a good way to keep player retention and leads to raid logging. Raids shouldn't be a thing in MMOs, period. Fuck you Jeff and your everquest mindset. It killed an entire section of gaming.
>>733118465i tired this game fir a bit but i got stock doing anything with necromancy. nothing made sense and i was weak to everything
>>733123356>large man content should not exist because I do not play large man contentoh. you're a smart one.
>>733123534>raiding is the only large man contentBased mazed retard
>>733122959A Souls MMO would be kino.
>>733123596What is large player PvE content if not a raid? Not all raids are ffxiv/wow raids which I think is your main complaint cause you're bitching about EQ.
>>733096797i think its just the total cancer that populate the servers unfortunately. most of the normal people left the game behind long ago. only nerds and losers left
>>733123778Rift had Rifts. FFXIV did fates, GW2 did something similar. That stuff was fine
>>733096797The world's best MMO still has over 30 million players and counting. Final Fantasy XIV: Dawntrail is more popular than Heavensward and a TOOOOOOON of people are resubbing for the cinematic masterpiece that is patch 7.4 (source: 4chan.org). Everyone's having tons of fun redoing content from 10 years ago and playing other games. Plap integration, mod support, etc. We like this.
>>733123790yep, this 100%. I only play on private servers, and it's so fun when you find a chill group of normal people who aren't absolute cunts or talking about politics 24/7. Groups like that are getting more and more difficult to find these days, which sucks. I still love leveling in WoW for the aesthetics, music, and vibes though. It might as well be a single player game these days
>>733123896i went on a first date with a ffxiv player and I couldn't tell her that I played games... sorry anon
>>733123435Ask in chat, read wiki, don't be a sad retardYou're supposed to figure shit outI recently switched to sword/dagger from sword/psych, and had no problem adapting my playstyle
>>733096797MMOs are an everything you can eat buffet where you get a C-tier experience in a myriad of things with a built in social platform. Now there are dedicated social platforms that do it better than an MMO, with dedicated games that do it better than MMOs. So why do MMOs need to exist? Only for brain rotted boomer millennials that can't let go of the past. It's as simple as that. It seems like the only ones that haven't gotten the memo are those dumb Koreans.
>>733121375Probably the most fun I had since Archeage betaLike >>733119757 said, players are interacting with each other in open world, global chat is alive, trade chat is active, ppl are grouping with randoms, haven't seen something like this in a long time
>>733096797Because they're shit, so people will just put their time into the MMO which they have already invested intoWhy the fuck would you play a game that is just WoW with a smaller community and a lower budget? Why would you switch to some random KMMO when you have 2000 hours invested in Runescape? What you're realistically going to do is just take a break to play non MMO games, and then go back to your favored MMOs.My poison of choice is OSRS. I can't even imagine playing another MMO.
>>733123887>large man content has to be braindeadwhy. genuinely what the fuck is wrong with you lmao.
>>733123140What do you think about New World combat?
>>733122742>pisses me off that developers just refuse to make actual combat in MMOs.BDO is calling you. all you have to do is give your life up to the korean slave trade.
>>733098102Why invest my time in a small MMO that will wither and die
>>733124183braindead open world combat is fun
Which MMO does World Bosses the best?
>>733124119People play games a lot (read: People want to play games a lot), and there's not much better than high lvl WoW PvE and PvP. I think, scientifically speaking, Souls is overtuned and people don't enjoy it that much. I can't think of anything else that might top WoW gameplay. I don't think Spray Pattern Simulator or I Creep Farmed for 75% of My Day are valid alternatives if you're talking about only playing one game. Have you tried getting 2400 rating in arenas? It's extremely high skill. WoW needs stuff to do, so you're probably not going to play it all day, every day, but it may be worth it if you just do your dailies (and get professions going); it may not be S-tier perfect, but I would probably give it A-tier for high skill expression, lots of eventual freedom, and lots of potential for socialization.
>>733096797i play guild wars 2 and turtle wowsometimes osrs if im feeling particularly depressed
>>733124179An MMO will be the most played game (probably with good gathering, crafting, trading, WPvE, and WPvP). Amount of players and a persistent world make it the best genre.
>>733125413oh look the schizo is here
>>733125413How do we make good WPvP? Doesn't WoW combat fall apart after, like, 5v5 or 10v10?
>>733125610thumbnail made her look fat and now im sad that she isnt
>>733096797Too expensive
>>733125575>Ad hominem.At least you're trying.
>>733125610wpvp in wow doesnt usually work because the areas that are contested usually dont have level matched charactersif you go to thousand needles horde and alliance players are pretty evenly levelled but horde in redridge are coming from badlands and burning steppes, so theyre ridiculously overlevelled compared to alliance players
>>733125708A few developers is enough to make a few mobs and a zone per day and have an MMO of content in a month or two.
>>733125790I was just using WoW as an example; I meant max level gameplay.
>>733124119>MMOs are obsolete/other games do what MMOs do but betterOh really?Well then in what other genre besides MMOs can i:Meet with random players on vast open world?Interact with said players, party up,
>>733125610WvW doesn't workIt's just zerg v zerg or ganking.PvP fags are retarded, and if they cared for balanced or good PvP, they don't play WvW, they play battlegrounds.
>>733125880>>733124119or fight them?Participate in massive battles over territory?Participate in trade with other players and create a player ran economy?
>>733125610It falls apart in 1v1 because the game is inherently unbalanced. The world pvp is the most balanced part of the game because each class generally has a counter except for rogues who should dominate as is their natural right.
>>733126267based obvious retard opinion
>>733125951It has to be possible. However, even in BGs, lots of players just turns into everyone DPSing down the player or two that get out of position until one side gets steamrolled.
>>733125951I wish there was a game that had unit collision with WvW. If I remember correctly Warhammer online had unit collision so fight were tanks in front, melee dps behind/flank, and ranged/heals in the back.
>>733126267That seems inherent to trinity, as is, but I'm usually always for balancing for 1v1.Though, I meant low-number PvP is OK, just that high-number is really blobby.
>>733126804Any giant zerg fest is going to be chaos and crash your computer, there's nothing you can do about that outside of making it a turn based game.
>>733105802What a fucking Karen.
>>733126938At what amount does that start? 20v20? 40v40?
>>733096797i'm so tired of answering this question.
>>733127010Whatever Alterac Valley is
>>733105802>racist>ai-generatedwow im shocked
>>733127160So, are you saying it breaks down with 40v40 or after? If both sides are at the same place (and not in front of a boss), there's not much strategy. I guess there could be if everyone was on comms, but the game should be playable in pubs.
>>733125610It's hard to make anything with that many players work good. The only reason raids work is because the bosses have are AI.You have retards on both sides rushing in, or everyone dogpiles healers and there's no time to defend them. Not that you can defend healers in WoW because the class system is heals, damage, and tanks. No dedicated shield/mitigation class.Imagine a class specifically tailored to keeping bubbles up, putting up shield walls, buffing, etc.Naturally to countert that kind of class, you'd have a class like GW1 Mesmer (GW2 Mesmer is SHIT), where the focus is to be debilitating, making players second guess what button to press, dealing damage second handedly, slowing, etc.Turn based would be the only way to make massive PvP work really, thern it'd just be 20v20 D&D basically.
>>733114584>playing on X1oofdont think I can do that again, I used to play on offi servers back in the chronicle 4 days and you needed the full support of a clan fully decked with dwarves and raid groups to even get equipment
>>733096908Hello cultured gentlemen
AHHHHHHWHY IS THERE NO PRIVATE SERVERIT WAS THE BEST MMO EVERTAKE ME BACKAIEEEEEEEE
Blizzard should make an RTS MMO.
>>733127813Tab target or ARPG slop?
>>733128031a bit of both. It was basically the best case scenario of a dark souls 1 style mmo. Focused and gameplay dense level design revolving around dungeon crawling with your friends. I miss it so muchhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b4FstD_fTOo
>>733096797It's unironically over.MMO was at its best when we were younger and dumber and spent an entire week of our summer vacation adventuring in a fantasy world. Now we all got shitty office jobs, less free time in general, and listen to fat slobs tell us what the best build is before the game's even installed.
>>733128382MMO is the best genre. We just need a good game.
>>733127397All you said can be resolved by two thingsUnit collision and Line of Sight based targetingSuddenly, unit formation starts to matter, flanking becomes possible, and shield wall/tank frontline actually protects the backline
>>733128382>i have to look up my build or vets will gatekeep from raidscommunity and game design issue, unironically find a better MMO
>>733128660Not what I said at all you retarded zoomer chimp And dont fucking reply to me again, you were not even born the first time I joined a Raid
>>733128774What the fuck did you just fucking say about me, you little bitch? I’ll have you know I graduated top of my class in the Navy Seals, and I’ve been involved in numerous secret raids on Al-Quaeda, and I have over 300 confirmed kills. I am trained in gorilla warfare and I’m the top sniper in the entire US armed forces. You are nothing to me but just another target. I will wipe you the fuck out with precision the likes of which has never been seen before on this Earth, mark my fucking words. You think you can get away with saying that shit to me over the Internet? Think again, fucker. As we speak I am contacting my secret network of spies across the USA and your IP is being traced right now so you better prepare for the storm, maggot. The storm that wipes out the pathetic little thing you call your “life”. You’re fucking dead, kid. I can be anywhere, anytime, and I can kill you in over seven hundred ways, and that’s just with my bare hands. Not only am I extensively trained in unarmed combat, but I have access to the entire arsenal of the United States Marine Corps and I will use it to its full extent to wipe your miserable ass off the face of the continent, you little shit. If only you could have known what unholy retribution your little “clever” comment was about to bring down upon you, maybe you would have held your fucking tongue. But you couldn’t, you didn’t, and now you’re paying the price, you goddamn idiot. I will shit fury all over you and you will drown in it. You’re fucking dead, kiddo.
>>733128774I mean, anon has a point: If you're not having fun, it's probably the game. Immersion still exists in good games.
>>733124726Yeah ok and it should exist for the retards who want it to. Doesn't mean there shouldn't be actual large scale content for PvE players.
>GW2 is the only mmo with fast and fun gameplay>classes that aren't just a single minmaxed rotation>no constant gay gear grind>nice visuals>good fashion>hot girls>but at the cost of literally everything else sucking dick through a straw>including the story, which is a (mandatory) homosexual humiliation ritualman I just want to beat up monsters and shoot the shit with people
>>733096908>>733097239>>733098573>>733109896>>733123068>>733127738Why do futafaggots have to ruin female characters and shove their garbage gay porn into the straight porn areas? Why can't you just be normal gays and lust over men in your own little gay corners like every other homo does?
>>733130029I remember the "Agender Engineer" thing but can I assume it got even worse?
>>733130392why does anything exist? because god wills it
>>733130029Meds
>>733130446>god
>>733130392Futa isn't gay.Especially futa on female.You have two sets of boobiesThe penis is just the phallic object I astral project myself into.
>>733130681Futa on male isn't gay either.
>>733130392Get lost fag it's an excellent meme lol>>733096797I think mmos are just a tough sell both to the company making it and the player playing it in the modern era of gaming.>So I'm a company that has to be able to front 5-10 years of development for an entire world of content, staying relevant with gaming trends as time goes on, and then maintain that level of development for an indefinite amount of time for the small chance my game doesn't death spiral immediately and I can scratch a profit...that sounds like quite an ask>So I'm a player and I have to hope this company has the resources to actually do this project, and I am being asked to dump hundreds to thousands of hours to begin to say you've experienced the whole of, and also hope that the interactive player experience is metagamed into oblivion and ruining the fun...sounds like I might end up spending a whole lot of money in subs/cash shop or a massive amount of time just for the game to die immediately crash and burnIt's a tough sell when you see what other options exist. A big draw of the original golden age of MMOs was the social media aspect before social media really became a mass phenomenon. Now that this is replaced by Xitter, 4chan, reddit, etc are massive draws the whole "chatroom with a game in it" thing isn't so shiny
>>733127295>Tranny seething at AIwow, I'm shocked.
>>733096797ESO has better lore than WoW without actual combat instead of tab targeting but everyone ignored it because todd howard is racist or something.
>>733111095Unironically how can human women compete with Draenei?>FutaYour porn-addict headcanon and unreasonable amount of fanart has no power over me
>>733124286bdo combat sucks ass. it looks flashy but none of it matters because enemies are punching bags and pvp is 100% gear based
>>733132193b8
MMO combat has worsened since the 2000's, its either just button bashing because resource management isnt a thing anymore aside from healing or stupid crap like skills to weapons and weapon swapping mid combat.
>>733096797>Do people just not play MMOs anymore?They're boring.I mean, the promise of the MMO is basically an infinite (or at least massive) amount of content and a large world to interact with. It's having dozens of hours of story and having hundreds of other people around you doing different things at the same time, with everybody progressing in their own way. The reality of MMOs is that you're going to be taking the same quests to grind the same wolf asses and that every other player is already at the level cap, playing what is effectively a very different game. And this might even be fine if the game itself was fun, but it's just Warcraft 3 on braindead easy difficulty so it's not really that fun to actually play thru the game.>what did you move onto?Literally anything else. There are better RPGs or even JRPGs which do the same thing. If I'm looking at braindead grinding anyway, I can at least get a story or some likeable characters in JRPGs. Stuff like Grandia has fun combat and SaGa have interesting game mechanics. And WRPGs like Wizardry or old Baldur's Gate games have much more interesting places to wander around and explore.The only people who play MMOs are the oldschool nostalgiafags who played MMOs 10-20 years ago. It's not surprising that all new MMOs are just rehashes of old MMOs, since that's all the audience wants. And it's not surprising that all the players just go back to their classic MMOs since those have all the nostalgia.
wowo wawa is dead and nothing more than Corean p2w grindan game now
The older i get the more i realize that vanilla WoW was the best shot at a virtual world. It even had the numbers. Basically every other dude my age played or did play WoW at some point. It was magical. You logged on, you had your friends and your guild. Towns were packed. Every zone you went to had people doing shit. Crafting, gathering, exploring, chatting, shouting for parties to clear dungeons. It was magical. Every level mattered, every new upgrade felt good. Just logging in and going to the town of your level range and just...duel that evening with randoms. Forming connections. Telling each other how one sucked or did a nice play. You constantly met new people because most of the playerbase were normalfags about to become hardcore neets, ready to lose their life for WoW. It was magical. We didnt need a Sword Art Online, a dot/hack, any isekai with adventurer guilds to tell us that we craved another world full of sword & magic that made you feel more alive than the real world you were stuck in. WoW was generation-defining. I am glad i was part of it but that whole experience was so good, i still try to feel even a sliver of what i felt back then. This sense of community, adventure and thrill. MMORPGs, when done somewhat right like WoW did, is a fucking drug. I still believe to this day that one can still make it happen again. Even in times like ours where information is abundant and people are less social now that the novelty of the internet and MMORPG genre has faded. I still believe that it just takes that one game, man. Let me live again.
> the more i realize that vanilla WoW was the best stopped reading right there wowdronenothing like confirming stereotypes
>>733136347I played every mmorpg there is. Be it b2p, f2p or subscription. Be it big names like GW, FF or WoW, or shit (you) never heard of like Wonderland Online or Eden Eternal. World of Warcraft right until WotlK was the best time you could have ever had with an MMORPG. I know some Ragnarok Online fags might disagree, or you had your Lineage or Tera or whatever. All of that does not come close to what WoW was and what that virtual world represented. Also kill yourself.
okay wowchud, post toon
What a time it was. And whenever you logged out you either went on the phone with your friends to talk about the game for hours or you went on Youtube and looked up PvP montages or watched a new Athene video. WoW truly was a phenomenon. It was the golden age. 4chan was fun, WoW was fun, the internet as a whole was fun. Fucking reddit was edgy as fuck with some subreddits having shit in it that would give you a permaban on this site these days. Man..
>unironic wowfaggotry
Post-WoW was just a lonesome wandering. From on MMO to the other. All kinds of f2p games that were merely fun for a month. Mabinogi, Elsword, Tree of Savior, Maple Story, Lufia, Pirate King Online, Rappelz, Atlantica, Cabal, DK Online, Dekaron, Lineage2, Dragon Nest, Dragonica, RO, etc etc etc. Too many to list. They all never came even close. GW is not really immersive enough to feel like a real world. FFXI and XiV are storyshit and while latter has a good social aspect, the people left playing are utter scum not worth being around. Some say the Riot MMO might give us what we need, that Tryndamere understood what made WoW special back then and in turn understands how important immersiom and a breathing (virtual) world is. I hope so. Fuck man. I hope so.
Since we're on the topic of MMOs, is there one that's like a combination of Factorio, EvE Online, with some farming sim elements, where you have to do world exploration and party dungeon crawling to get the materials needed for the main crafting/construction part of the game?
>>733137091just play Elin
>>733137091Go play Endfield
Best bet is just getting a crpg or jrpg that you can immerse yourself in. There is not a single good MMORPG out there right now. Not a single one.
>>733137064GW isnt an MMORPG, its the evolution of ARPG's.
>>733137281eve online is pretty cool I think.
>a genre where you need to compete with neets with endless free time and skipping even one day could fuck up your gameplay>"wHy GeNrE DIeD"
>>733130029Can somebody explain GW2 combat to somebody who hasn't played since launch? From what I remember, it's usually some damage abilities and a heal. Does the rogue sort of class get a stealth? I remember not really being able to get into whatever class fantasy compared to WoW. Plus, I missed trinity. What do you like and/or not like about it?
Draenei women owe me sex.I dont have much else to add to the conversation.
>>733124305We all will wither and die, that doesn't necessarily make our staying here any less fun.Hot take but how about you stop regarding time spent in an MMO as "investment" and just play it for the moment-to-moment enjoyment?
>>733096797mmorpg is fine
>>733110663>I'm 10 levels above any mob just Form doing the Main quest. Dungeons are faceroll. Quests are never more than run here, click something, then either watch a cutscene or 2 shot a trashmob.>I am playing with a friend and we have to leave the group every few quests because we can't enter story instances together.These two things are the blight of any major MMO releasing nowadays, I tell you. Can't afford to have a dangerous enough outdoor where mobs pose an actual threat and you have to think about gear choices and build long before hitting levelcap. Can't afford to have group-oriented content in the levelling because there's going to be a wide range of fuckos who can't bother to type "LFG quest X" in chat or join a guild for finding carries. Diluting the gameplay so much that they have to make levelling "story-oriented" to make it somewhat engaging even further diverting from the ideals of the genre of making your own stories with compatriots in tow. I fucking despise every single "major" and popular MMO because they're all the same like this.
>>733130775Neither is male on male
>>733130871>companyIt doesn't have to be like that. 10 devs x 40 hours per week is 400 man hours. Even if a round of mobs and a zone took 10 hours, that's 40+ mobs and zones in a week. Simultaneously, UE5 is free until you make money. They could have only enough money for living expenses (not much) and probably finish an MMO in 6 months. If they make sandbox replayability, they don't have to get stuck in a scenario where they're making content every few months, plus, it's probably less dev time anyway while providing more to do via a living world.>player>hundreds to thousands of hoursNot really, but people play DOTA 2 for 13M hours per day. It's not as if you have to make multiplayer HL3 or whatever.
>>733130775Futa on male is kinda gay, but male on futa isn't.
>>733137064Nothing will ever come close.You'll feel incomplete and miserable playing MMOs until you keep chasing that all-time high that could only exist at that specific moment in time.I've said it time and time again, do things to live, not to relive. Stop expecting other MMOs to be "like WoW when it was good" or even "better than WoW when it was good". Just play them for what they are and enjoy their aspects that you can while they are around.
>>733096908I still don't know how that trend got started
>>733135585>The reality of MMOs is that you're going to be taking the same quests to grind the same wolf asses and that every other player is already at the level cap, playing what is effectively a very different game.>Leveling.>Ever.You realize that a good sandbox MMO where everybody starts at max level is optimal, right? WoW has had like 50%-85% of players quit by lvl 25.>Questing.I think it's good to include, but you should obviously not make everybody do it for any amount of time. If people loved questing, WoW wouldn't have lost subs for a decade and wouldn't have huge churn. Can you imagine some percentage of 1.5B people coming to play your game every day, and not continually increasing sub count?
>>733139742>Nothing will ever come close.Because everything changed.MMOs in 2004 still were somewhat a novelty for most people, internet in general was simplier and we all had way more free time.I just can't grind for several hours every single day now.
>>733136182It's obviously possible. Motivation (fun) has been solved since 1985.As for WoW, you just grew up and realized it's not that fun. Leveling and forced questing are garbage. Does any large percentage of people even read the quest text? Imagine making everybody do this while massively segregating players and making 90% of the world obsolete. The world and instanced content need to be good/rewarding enough to stand on their own. I don't even think it's hard to make a living world.
If only devs were not such a gigantic retarded faggots.
>>733139163I can't wait until a good sandbox MMO (without leveling or forced questing) exists and everybody loves it.
>>733140000>You realize that a good sandbox MMO where everybody starts at max level is optimal, right?So you're saying that the best MMOs are the ones that allow everybody to just skip all the MMO content? Interesting take.
https://youtu.be/tbLBNf7DTWc>biggest mmo streamer>never played wowIs this dude serious?
>>733137064Do you enjoy Classic?>>733139742>>733140018>I just can't grind for several hours every single day now.A good MMO would have everybody be relevant to most all content with pretty low effort. You can play any other genre for an hour or two every day and have a blast. It's the same with a good MMO. Being in the midst of thousands of players in a persistent world is unique and good enough to win it the best genre.
>>733140735>Appeal to tradition.Want to try again?
>>733140935>>733140690>without leveling>would have everybody be relevant to most all content with pretty low effortHow would I feel any progress then you nigs?>forced questingI would rather have my 1000 mob grinds be split into 50 edible pieces of 20 with tangible saved progress between the sessions than just have 1000 mobs to grind from get-go.
MMOs with Discord being a popular platform is just a waste of time. People don't log in to chat, they afk in the Discord. They don't even sub or play the game; they afk in the discord.You meet strangers ingame, you talk, they ignore you because they're already on discord.
>>733096797Because devs don't understand how much content is required to simply LAUNCH an MMO, let alone keep it going.The amount of content available in the first year of Vanilla WoW absolutely dwarfs entire lifetimes of games released these days. Hell, even before they released Molten Core the amount of dungeons, levelling zones, class/race combos, and quests are more than most games manage in their entire lifetime. People don't play MMOs anymore because they're not really MMOs. They're single player RPG-Lite games where you can see *maybe* a dozen other players bunnyhopping around while either actively getting in your way or not affecting your game whatsoever. Most of these games also have retarded MTX hungry energy systems or intentional progression bottlenecks like in Destiny 2.Simply put, the passion and commitment it takes to create a real MMO world doesn't exist any more. Toxic positivity and anti-crunch culture destroyed it.
>>733140824Yes he has never played it before**by that he means he's never played TBC Anniversary edition before****He played some BFA and hated it********He played a little vanilla back in the day**********He's aware of a lot of the game through osmosis
>>733141264Easy solution: integrate Discord into the in-game general chat, guild chat and private messages.
>>733140000 level schizo nice quads
>>733141183>How would I feel any progress then you nigs?Progress doesn’t have to mean bigger stats. It can mean better builds, stronger economy position, reputation, skill mastery, or rare gear identity. Plenty of games prove players still feel progression without vertical leveling. Games like CS and MOBAs prove that people are OK with increasing and decreasing amounts of power. Again, people play DOTA 2 for 13M hours per day, and CS gets more than that. Just put those progression loops in an MMO.>I would rather have my 1000 mob grinds be split into 50 edible pieces of 20 with tangible saved progress between the sessions than just have 1000 mobs to grind from get-go.Who says you have to grind mobs for dozens to hundreds of hours? Killing mobs should be organic, something you do while skinning hides or farming essences.
>>733140425I still sometimes log in to check my old village, even though the server's been practically dead for over a decade and the village and my friends are long gone. It's kind of neat to see the buildings slowly decay and the grass and trees take over. The old Wurm was truly a magical game
>>733141298Developing procedural generation tools would take care of a lot of development (and that's a good thing!). You could create infinite amounts of [races, mobs, etc.]. I think landscape could be done too, but I would probably handcraft this; it wouldn't even take a long time, maybe a month or two for the world. 10 people at 40 hours per week is 1600 man hours per month -- that's 160 10-hour systems (profession design, profession implementation, resource locations, starter UI, etc.) per month. I don't think you can come up with anything reasonable that couldn't be developed in 6 months.
>>733141895I liked wurm, but their premium/deed payment system sucks ass.I also liked H&H but PvP faggots ruined it.
>>733102570I had a good time in Tera Classic.I'm still hoping.
>>733118362>Nobody is putting their shop on the road like animalsAbsolutely based
>>733142079You could certainly "develop" like that, but I guarantee it would feel like ass. Nothing would be connected, it wouldn't feel like a believable world, and there would be absolutely zero internal logic within races/cultures or how they interact with each other. Maybe in 50 years when AI is so advanced that it's exceeded human creativity, but absolutely not before then.
>>733096908fpbp
>>733142809Making a body type and designing a face generator wouldn't "feel like ass". That could be said for anything you could make.
Seeing the crash out over AoC was more entertaining than the game itselfThe savior of the genre and would be bigger than anything didn't even last a month kek
>>733143260To be completely fair its unfinished and had every right to not do well with this launch. I and just about every player of alpha 2 had said the game was not ready for a steam release and begged for a delay.Retards dropped it anyways. This was when i knew i had invested into a scam. I played post steam for a day or two, then stopped altogether.I hate jews so much, but i hate that im retarded even more.
>>733143052Maybe I wasn't clear enough; I meant playing AI generated content would be obvious and THAT would feel like ass. Like I said, the world would feel disjointed and there would be zero suspension of disbelief. The illusion would be totally destroyed because no human brains went through the world to ensure everything is cohesive. That is such a huge task that going back and doing it AFTER ai has shit out a bunch of random horseshit would barely be faster and probably less efficient.With current or near future AI tech, anyway.We all want the AI paradise version of the future to be our reality, but it's not even close yet. I'm speaking from first had experience. For anything creative, it makes the job harder if you're trying not to plagiarize.
>>733143937>We all want the AI paradise version of the future to be our realityNo, I don't think we all do.
uhhh, stop cutting power to my home and I'll play MMO
>>733130392its best to pay them no mind at all a any form of attention only feeds their ego. A shame that it has come to that but barring beatings nothing will change.
>>733110663I was a big FF nerd and i bounced off a couple times myself. it wasn't until i got to HW that i started to enjoy the story and the music is pretty nice and scenic too. Usually just listen to my on shit while playing but HW really is a good experience, as is SB. It helped being an FF nered who grew up with a lot of the references though. nostalgia is a hell of a drug. Shame about how political and gay wow got.
Where winds meet is more of an MMO than anything shat out recently and that game isn't even one
>>733145628WWM is shit
>>733142513you were only allowed to set up shop in specific areas.the personal shops in L2 were obnoxious as shit, would lag the entire town, some idiots would set it up on top of important npc's so you would accidentally click on their shop instead of npc and so on...
>>733096797Chinese gachas in particular have replaced them. Why play an MMO when you can do the same in say genshin and with better exploration too
>>733145685Better than anything wow killer or all the saviors of MMO who crashed and burned
For preteen/teenage me, it was RO and Pristontale.
>>733145765The only thing gachas do better is extract money from pathetic tranny pedophiles.
>>733096797Wow basically killed the genre by making them all into facebook-tier casual slop that you login to once a day. Then Wow itself became too casual for people to enjoy.Basically any MMO these days is trying to remake "the glory days" of casual WoW.
>>733146656>Really thinks young kids are playing their 20+ yo MMOThe only ones still playing are boomers desperately wanting to feel like kids again with too much sunk cost to quit You can bitch all you like but GI already gives the MMO experience to younger generations that or Roblox
>wow wow wow wow wow wow wow>XIV XIV XIV XIV>eso eso eso eso esoPlease play other small MMOsPlay private serversMMOs don't have to have 5k+ players to feel alive
I'm not really an MMO player, I was genuinely interested in trying GW2, only one I played is WoW until WotLK, what would you people reccommend?
>>733147046What do you recommend are the lesser known but hidden gem ones?
>>733147078>>733147117Play MMOs with 4chan's bizarre MMO adventure's group. They're always trying out random unknown MMOs usually on private servers and if you're new there's a guaranteed group to play with and talk to and they're not sensitive or boring normalfags who cry about gamer words. You can be as casual or autistic as you want grinding as well.
>>733147046Small MMOs are all kinda shit though.
>>733147270Why?
>>733096797MMOs are a dying breed cause there won't be a young blood to replace them, they're all socializing on Roblox which is their MMO
>>733147819>Roblox which is their MMORoblox is more like Gmod.
>>733148187starcraft custom games with a game lobby imo
>>733147117Archeage ClassicProject GorgonSWG LegendsTERA ClassicWurm Unlimited servers
>>733147585They're pretty much all unfinished and early access.
Best online sandbox?
>>733148952irl if you're born rich or handsome
>>733143937>AI generated contentI said procedurally generated, where you make the generator from scratch, with a set of parameters. Instead of making 5-10 humans, you could make 1,000 humans. Imagine what you could do with 1,000 humans.
>>733148952Eve online.
>>733137045bros....they even made my fishing chair gay?!even took the booze jug and everything!
>>733110979saar
>>733115282Fpbp
The only 2 mmos that keep me coming back from time to time are anarchy online and dungeons and dragons online, ao is in maintenance mode but is my fav mmo of all time and only go back for a couple months like once a year around anniv or holiday, ddo still gets content and expansions.
>>733096797>Personal salami >No salamiCurious
Im waiting for Mabinogi Mobile
my problem with mmos is that they are anti-explorationyou can only ever interact with things in your level bracketit would be like if you couldn't do road trips until you were 60 years old because roads had age requirements.why do mmos even have combat levels?
>>733096797I just don't enough time to play another job
>>733153305I found if you just casually play at your own pace and not worry about "catching up" it feels less like a job and more just comfy gaming.
>>733117023Come help fill out a pirated WoW server friend.
>>733096797Amsolute God-tier artist
>>733136182this is basically why mmos are a failed genre. morons like you think WoW is the pinnacle of virtuals world. But when you look inside it's a co-op arpg where everything exists for combat or ultimately in service of combat. Yeah dude the closest thing to a coherent virtual world is fighting things so you can make your numbers go up to fight bigger things. It's like saying PoE is the pinnacle of virtual worlds just because you put 1000 hours into it.
>>733157204Agreed. I had fun with WoW but by no means is it a good virtual world and all mmo's trying to copy it is literally what has ruined the genre.
>>733096797>Do people just not play MMOs anymore?not really, its a genre that's genuinely just on the decline, the only notable ones are WoW (and who the fuck still plays WoW in the year of our lord 2026 lmao) and FFXIV (recently had its most hated expansion and is now on its decline phase) and the rest are barely just coasting alongreally the genre itself is just a dying breed, the rise of gaming and social media as a whole has caused MMO's to fall out of favor because their novelty isn't really all that notable anymore
>>733157204So what is an example of a good virtual world then?
>>733157451Eve online.
>>733157485Ah okay I get your point. That's fair.
>>733157451Dofus
>>733157485I could never get into Eve, it felt too impersonal
>>733110663>every single dungeon is a corridor with no branching paths>the rare few that do are sanded down until they are just like the rest>3 bosses total in a circle or square arena (rectangle if the devs are feeling especially creative)>mobs have absolutely nothing to set them apart from any other dungeon, some dungeons used to have a few mechanics such as using water pipes to drench enemies to give them a vuln (all removed)>almost all halfway creative mechanics have been removed to make it possible for NPCs to do them because XIV players don't actually want to play with other players in their MMO>at low levels, most jobs will be stuck pressing 1-2 (repeat)>game overcompensates the fuck out of MSQ exp that if you aren't levelling up a couple of alt jobs, you just outlevel the fuck out of itI play on occasion, but I cannot in good faith recommend this game
>>733157773I've had some fun with it but I never got really into it either. It's still by far the best virtual world, but the gameplay itself is niche.
>>733096797>>733097239Anons you supposed to post AI generated ART! Not those luddites pencil slops!How can i increase my income portfolio if you don't post gens bheee
>>733157451I never played it but from what I hear, Star Wars Galaxy was a good virtual world.Ultima Online was as well.Project Gorgon is neat, but it similarly suffers from "everything exists for combat" problem.Basically the bare minimum requirement for a good virtual world is for players to be able to have non-instanced player housing on semi-permanent structures they can customize. Otherwise it's literally not a virtual world, it's just a series of nodes made to look pretty.I'd argue that static npcs also disqualifies something from being a good virtual world, but the tech isn't there yet for dynamic ai driven npcs. Ideally there wouldn't be any fundamental differences between a player character and a non-player character.
