>>733109549
I think it's pretty clear that most good stories give a lot of life to their supporting characters, but I've seen people get stuck in the planning stages for making a game, story etc, because they are too worried about making their main character unique before. Hell isn't it the case that a lot of main characters in stories are the least popular character?

>>733109549
>Finally got around to playing the Naranja demo and it got me thinking about how important the supporting cast is for the spirit of a game
Undertale's enteri popularity comes from the supporting cast, the meta elements are cool, but without caharacters like Papyrus, Undyne or Sans the game would feel pretty barren for the most part, the core of Undertale's soul lays in the supporting cast, I think this is in part why the Undertale Yellow demo was forgotten for such a long time, Dalv as a character is pretty lame, even in the full release he doesn't do much

>>733109549
Astral Disk had Beltrowel

>>733110274
>Astral Disk
first I've heard of this, but there's a whole site for it I guess.

>>733110256
>Dalv as a character is pretty lame, even in the full release he doesn't do much
that's a good point honestly, The main character in undertale hardly exists beyond slight hints at personality in subtext. Clover has more personality than frisk, but still he's not designed to carry a world like that on his shoulders.

it's kind of a surpise they left dalv as he was, I'd have figured the demo would have gotten feedback

>>733110225
>Hell isn't it the case that a lot of main characters in stories are the least popular character?
A lot of main characters in videogames suffer from being extremely boring, as a side note, don't you find it strange how most game protagonists, in universe, hate what you do in gameplay? The main reason people play games is for fun so its always weird how there is this huge dissonance between the player and the narrative.
I know for most action games this would mean making the main character a psycho, but still.

>>733110418
Kris is quickly becoming one of my favorite game MC's just for displaying so much personality despite never saying a word. It proves that you can have a silent protagonist that isn't a cardboard cut-out, I wish more games were like that, or at least more games with silent protagonists recognized that the main character is a mute, I'm looking at the pokemon games, where your character barely says anything or shows any expression, yet still befriends the entire supporting cast.

>>733110513
>don't you find it strange how most game protagonists, in universe, hate what you do in gameplay?
I don't know if it's actually "most" but at the same time it's common enough that I know what you're talking about. A lot of characters that just "don't want to be here right now" right?

>>733110675
Subtle action is something a lot of people can't do. Hell subtlety in general is beyond a lot of writers. There's a problem right now with a good amount of indie stuff where the writers thinks he needs to make the writing self aware or else the player wont catch on to what's going on, instead of having small actions and letting the audience just infer and understand the situation.

>>733110675
I'm liking how Naranja so far very directly implies Vals dialogue. You don't get a choice on whether Val says he wants to fight the rock guy, it's a given.

>>733110839
Well, maybe not most, but tons of it
>A lot of characters that just "don't want to be here right now" right?
Exactly, when it comes to main characters and their views on what you do in gameplay, there is usually 4 types, those that don't want it (Niko Bellic), those that are on a mission and don't seem to care about anything else (Ryu Hayabusa), those that are just following their instincts/programming (Knight from Hollow Knight) and then those that actually enjoy the gameplay, which seems to be the smallest group (Dante)
I know not every main character can be wacky wahoo pizza man, but if find this relationship between main characters and gameplay interesting.

I got a question.
Given that superpowers in the UT universe might basically be real, but are acquired almost exclusively through committing acts of extreme violence, do you think that means people in the UT universe view superpowers in a generally negative light compared to our universe?
Like, people in our world generally view having immense power as a means of enacting change, or acting as a force for good, but would someone from a world where the ability to shoot magic projectiles or endure insane amounts of damage are actually obtainable through committing acts of violence see them the same way?
What would they think of superheroes at that rate?
I feel like from this angle, any human living in the UT universe would probably be terrified if you described someone like Superman to them.
Like, "Oh my god, how many people did this "Superman" have to kill to become so powerful?", something like that.

>>733111335
maybe it's connected to some form of "suffering builds character" in the sense that, these are characters being thrown into struggles they didn't ask for, and so for the writer that gives them the "protagonist" feeling they are looking for. "one who struggles".
You don't often get someone like Guts who both is born for the battle field and doesn't hate fighting, but also at the same time really doesn't want to be here (because the circumstances are so far beyond reason)

>>733111352
>do you think that means people in the UT universe view superpowers in a generally negative light compared to our universe?
Maybe this is part of the framing when there's a serial killer on the loose. Maybe humans despite all of their flaws, have societal structures in place to try and stop that kind of shit from happening.
though some degree of power does come from people who aren't violent themselves, such as frisk refusing death in true pacifist.
>What would they think of superheroes at that rate?
maybe they really focus on temperance as a virtue, or maybe human society has stagnated

>>733110225
Undertale lives and dies on its supporting cast. Nothing about it would work if people weren't deeply invested in its characters/

>>733111352
They canonically have anime in UT world so I doubt it.
I want to believe that the whole LOVE thing only works in the underground or in the presence of monsters, otherwise any serial killer can eventually become a world destroyer.

>>733110256
If you take the likable cast out of Undertale you get one of two things. Either its Yiik or Spec Ops The line

>>733111670
>otherwise any serial killer can eventually become a world destroyer.
to be fair, not many people in real life ever racked up a kill count of 80, and it would be even harder if you were on the battle field going against other people who were getting tougher as they went.

there's also the chance of course that LV only affects magical damage and attacks against souls.

>>733111790
>there's also the chance of course that LV only affects magical damage and attacks against souls.
Chara still destroyed the timeline at the end of genocide, so either reaching LV20 gives you that much power or Chara is a special case since they are a "demon"

>>733111352
>Like, "Oh my god, how many people did this "Superman" have to kill to become so powerful?", something like that.
Frisk and Clover both showed special powers without having to kill, maybe heroes like Superman are used to frame that "you don't have to kill to be powerful" as kind of an early moral deterrent against people who want to use violence to get strong.

>>733111930
I think LV 20 is a breaking point in general, There's probably not a lot of people in history that have actually gotten to it, and I personally feel like commanding others to kill for you doesn't raise your LV the same way that killing them yourself does. Maybe it can give you some LV, but I have a feeling it would only work to a certain extent.

>>733111979
>Frisk and Clover both showed special powers without having to kill
True, but their powers only manifested when they were really backed up against the wall, neither one seems to be able to use their powers reliably outside of dire circumstances.
Frisk can "refuse" against Asriel, but not against anyone else, and Clover can dash and shoot projectiles against Ceroba, but not against anyone else (in pacifist for both of them).
Sidenote, how many Itachi or Vergil minded people do you think are running around in the UT world?
Because if acts of violence are actually a reliable way to gain power, there's no way someone hasn't gotten some funny ideas at least a few times throughout history.

>>733112065
these are the kind of things Toby didn't think with Undertale's world building, this and the fact that in the pacifist route any monster could kill 7 humans babies or take souls from terminally ill humans and easily become a god.

>>733112223
>Sidenote, how many Itachi or Vergil minded people do you think are running around in the UT world?
>Because if acts of violence are actually a reliable way to gain power, there's no way someone hasn't gotten some funny ideas at least a few times throughout history.
there's probably a lot, but maybe there are humans that act as wardens hunting down people like that.
and eventually becoming the hunted as well once their own LV gets too high.

>>733112065
The thing is, you only need like 80 kills to reach that level, someone could start a big enough cult and kill his followers to reach that level quickly.

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>>733110256
I don't know what you're talking about. Dalv clearly had a ton of Personality.

>>733112065
>I think LV 20 is a breaking point in general
NTA, but maybe LV 20 was only a breaking point for the underground itself, and the wider world has a higher limit than that.
This isn't really based on anything in particular, so I won't argue too hard in it's favor, but it's possible that most of the real world-altering powers only work in the underground for whatever reason, like it's effectively some kind of pocket dimension.
We see Asriel with "infinite" stats during his boss fight, so it could be the case that LV cap is determined by a bunch of different factors and isn't inherently limited to just 20.

>>733112348
so what you're saying is
the surface world of Undertale is run by a LV 19 red soul human who resets time every time he catches on to someone else approaching his control. The Shadow soul council.

actually it wouldn't be shocking if there was a secret society on the surface that knew about soul shit.

>>733110513
I know of quite a lot of examples to the contrary. Either main characters who just don't mind what they're doing, or characters who actively enjoy it. Like Duke Nukem, Tank Dempsy, most of the GTA protagonists, Mario, Sonic, Doomguy (circa 2016), and I'm sure there's plenty more examples outside of my limited area of knowledge. And that's just in action games, you go for something like Punch Out or Tony Hawk's Pro Skater and you have people actively participating in a sport for fun. A bit of an iffy example, but in Solatorobo Red does seem to love his job, he just doesn't like bad things happening to people, which isn't really what you do, so much as what you're trying to stop.

>>733112307
>and eventually becoming the hunted as well once their own LV gets too high.
Isn't that part of the plot to Bloodborne?
Anyway-
>there's probably a lot, but maybe there are humans that act as wardens hunting down people like that.
Man, human society in UT sounds awesome.
Maybe anime really is real, and everyone on the surface is just always beating the shit out of each other and vying for power.

>>733112457
There's also the whole anniversary gerson stuff (take it or leave it of course) talking about humans using up their magic to create the barrier. Maybe humans magic was all stuck underground and this is a problem they have to face now that the barrier was broken.

>>733110675
The only other example I can think of that gives so much personality to a silent protagonist is Doom 2016. You can just feel how that guy is such an violent ball of hatred.

>>733112598
>frisk ran underground to get away from all of that madness and just found his own anime powers in the process
>it took the power of emotionally underdeveloped monsters for the surface to finally know peace

>>733112678
They did a good job with it in 2016, and I feel overdid it in the sequels. There was just enough set up in 2016

>>733112621
I dunno, I interpreted that as meaning that humanity's ability to use more general magic was lost, but they still retain their more specific soul related powers.
I mean, the manual for UT says that the way you spare monsters in-game is a kind of magic, so clearly humans haven't lost *all* ability to use magic, it's just not the same kind of magic monsters seem to be able to use.

>>733112678
Doomguy from 2016 is also one of my favorite main character, never says a word, but expresses enough with his actions to tell you what's on his mind

>>733112793
>the manual for UT says that the way you spare monsters in-game is a kind of magic
I think it just calls it "peaceful determination" but I'm not against the idea that there was still latent magic on the surface that your average person can't tap into.
I do like the idea of the secret society of LV hunters
oh god, oh no
Mew mew love blaster? or Mew mew LV blaster

>>733112598
So what you are saying is that Val isn't the exception but the rule on the surface?

>>733112382
>Dalv clearly had a ton of Personality.
Dalv has so little personality that he often gets forgotten when people are drawing ensemble art pieces of the UTY cast

>>733112903
Maybe your average every day citizen doesn't know about the POWER STRUGGLES that are going on behind the scenes. Most humans never make it over LV 3 most likely.

>>733112954
I'm just joking from when that Artist drew "dalv and martlet based on their actual personalities"

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>>733112684
Alternatively-
>asriel uses the last of his power to give monsterkind a species-wide stat buff
>the barrier is broken, allowing monsterkind to gain their freedom and integrate with human society on the surface
>things cool down a bit, with only some people on earth being capable of the superpowered feats of the past

This is how we get to the Dragon Ball timeline, trust.

>>733112971
Val starts the game at LV 2, he was getting close to it

>>733113031
My b, I thought you might be the Dalvkeeper anon. I don't mind what Dalvkeeper anon does, it just seems like a silly claim to make non-jokingly

>>733111352
That's implying the average human even knows about this stuff. They may not. Also you can get powers without being a serial killer, we see characters like Undyne do it, and some people like Asgore and Papyrus are just naturally stronger than everyone else. If we go by UTY, then Clover gets his magic bullets even in pacifist. And Frisk gets all manner of wacky powers in pacifist.

>>733112885
>I think it just calls it "peaceful determination" but I'm not against the idea that there was still latent magic on the surface that your average person can't tap into.
Okay, it calls it an "aura of peaceful determination", but that sounds like magic to me.
Unless you interpret that as Frisk just giving off a specific vibe *so hard* that everyone they fight just immediately loses the will to keep attacking, which could also be true but feels a little sillier.

>>733113067
Sorry to dissapoint you anon, but acording to DB Kakarot (game in which Toriyama worked) the anthros in Dragon Ball were just people under the influence of a drug
https://www.youtube.com/shorts/eG3qnqmytYM

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>>733113103
Dalvkeeper anon gives me life by extrapolating a personality he fails to show in the game. Dalv deserves for SOMEONE to give him a personality.
He also did new art this weekend.

>>733113208
>If we go by UTY, then Clover gets his magic bullets even in pacifist. And Frisk gets all manner of wacky powers in pacifist.
I already addressed that bit, they only manifested their more specific powers in dire circumstances in their pacifist routes, most of the time they're pretty normal.
Frisk is obviously a lot less normal than Clover, but you get the idea.

>>733113305
what is she talking about?

>>733111930
Chara took the SAVE/LOAD powers from (you). Flowey had them previously for the underground. The jury's still out on whether or not SAVE works on the surface, but if it does, then someone probably already has that power and everybody is none the wiser.

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>>733113339
it came with a green

>>733113215
Frisk's pacifism is so strong he can project it in the form of an aura that affects all monsters, meanwhile Val needs to focus his pacifism on a slap in order for it to work.

>>733109549
reminder that ceroba is fat

>>733113279
DBZK also has Goku stay dead after the end of the Cell saga because he just really likes all the stuff he's getting in the afterlife, I think we can disregard it as a canon source of information on the DBZ universe and lore.
I like that game, it's fun, but I'm not taking it's word over the original manga or anime.

>>733113339
their half bat half bear half vampire abomination of a lovechild

>>733113279
if there is any author who made things up on the spot, it's toriyama. He was really good about doing things on a whim and changing his mind or forgetting whenever. Remember monster Carrot?

>>733112065
LV is more of a thematic thing. It represents your detachment from the world. Once you reach LV 20 in Undertale, you are completely disconnected from the world and the consequences of any of your actions inside of it. Its not real and none of it matters, so you can do whatever you want, though its not even what you want anymore, at that point its that you have to do everything, just because it can be done.

It may not be possible for a person who lives in that world to become that detached. (you) are an outside entity that exists independent of that world. They aren't.

>>733113082
true, but most people get through their lives without killing even enough to get a single LV. the number of people who could reach double digits is going to be vanishingly low.

>>733113279
Also, this doesn't explain the existence of people like Oolong, Puar, or Korin, so animal people clearly still exist as their own thing in DB without this drug anyway.

>>733112348
I think the number probably varies based on the person and circumstance. Like 80 is a lot for Clover. He's hunting down and killing every last person with a connection to the deaths of those five kids, committing fully to his obsession with justice at any cost. He becomes a force of nature seeking only to right perceived wrongs with blood.

>>733113602
I like the idea that someone can become so lost along the path to pursuing a twisted version of their souls virtue, that they can reach a similar level of detachment.
Justice at all costs, Cooking the words biggest omelette

>>733113762
>Cooking the words biggest omelette
I thought Cody only wanted to kill them with kindness...

>>733112598
>Maybe anime really is real, and everyone on the surface is just always beating the shit out of each other and vying for power.
No, its an urban fantasy thing. The vast majority of people are clueless nobodies who exist purely as set dressing for the super powerful people with wacky hairdos and tragic backstories.

>>733113862
what greater kindness is there than to feed them all? but you can't do it without cracking a few eggs first.

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>>733113919
>somewhere along the way, cody lost sight of his original goal. He wanted to make sure nobody went hungry
>well how can anyone go hungry if there's no one left?

>>733113919
We're making the mother of all omelette's here, Jack, can't fret over every egg!

>>733113919
>you can't do it without cracking a few eggs first
>MAKING THE MOTHER OF ALL OMELETS HERE
>CAN'T FRET OVER EVERY EGG

>>733113279
Toriyama didn't give two shits about the lore of dragon ball. Just ignore it and go with what makes sense, which is that animal people are just a natural thing like sentient dinosaurs, dragons, vampires, demons, mummies, whatever monster geran was, and all the other weird shit that lives on Earth.

>>733114083
>>733114087
omelet hivemind

>>733113067
Here's a simpler answers. Every time there was a planet wide genocide, they only ever wished the humans back by name, so over time the anthros went extinct.

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>>733114165

>>733113215
>but feels a little sillier.
Then it must be the correct answer Frisk is a silly person and Undertale is a silly game.

>>733114234
I refuse to believe some hmofa guy wouldn't simply collect all the dragon balls himself to wish all the anthros back himself.

>>733113328
Well being a serial killer with a high kill count is also a pretty rare circumstance.

>>733113762
Yeah, but Clover never quite reaches (you)r level, and he's still being helped from the shadows by (you). It takes him at his maximum to reach where (you) were at the start, because (you) started off playing a video game.

>>733114342
Yeah, but what about soldiers?
What about the pilots of the Enola Gay, how many kills did they get? Or did all that EXP and LV go to the people who worked on the Manhattan project instead?

>>733114480
gut feeling is that combo kills don't provide LV in the same way, but what about executioners?

>>733113862
>>733114030
>>733113919
shitposts aside, maybe there's a character in this. Someone who commits attrocities out of a desire to do good. Maybe he thinks that by gaining this power he can save the world, end suffering everywhere, but he has to kill a lot of people to get that power, so he chooses people that are already suffering, if he can't help them by eliminating the cause of their suffering, he can at least spare them from experiencing more, and can put their deaths towards making sure this kind of suffering will never happen again.

>>733114334
>Implying he wouldn't have died alongside his waifur

>>733114480
Most soldiers don't score a single kill, and if they do, they usually never know. That said I could see them having a high LV, just not rule the world high. As for the Enola Gay, I think its too indirect. You aren't desensitizing yourself as much since the death isn't right in front of you wrought by your own hands. Remember Frisk had to slow roll a genocide by hand to get level 20, cheating with a nuke isn't going to get the same results.

This is also implying that nukes would even be invented in a world where people can become WMDs. If they really can get nuke powers, why bother making nukes at all?

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>>733114581
>kindness, you see, is ending suffering.
>you are in pain, I can see it in your eyes.
>Has anyone ever shown you even a sliver of kindness? Here, I'll set you at ease, you never have to suffer again.

>the LV 15 human drew closer, tears they couldn't possibly feel anymore, pouring from their eyes.

>>733114480
>>733114530
by that logic kills made with guns wouldn't give you exp either since you are killing with a complex machine instead of doing it with your own hands

>>733114907
I don't think using a gun is anywhere near as disconnected from the act as a button that makes a city vanish near instantly.
you don't watch them die, see the pain on their faces or even use your own killing intent.
but what if guns did give less LV than hand to hand?

>>733114887
is this quoting something?

Also I just realized this is basically MCU Thanos's character.

>>733115017
>is this quoting something?
just typed it up on the spot
>mcu thanos
it still cracks me up how drastically different he is from the comic version in motivation.

>>733114907
What matters is that you feel the impact of attacking him and see the life drain from his eyes. A gun still does that, provided its direct fire, and not a mortar or howitzer.

>>733115074
I think he's a lot better than the comic version. Still full of holes, but he's got a presence that the 8ft tall purple chud in the comics just can't match.

>>733114827
>If they really can get nuke powers, why bother making nukes at all?
To kill anyone who has nuke powers.

>>733115164
The comic version is a relic of that era of comics, I'm not meaning that the comic version is different, it's just funny that they needed to write a new version of him because "guy really wants to fuck a skeleton so he attempts omnicide" doesn't read as well to most.

>>733115252
>I'm not meaning that the comic version is different
fuck, I meant not meaning it's better.

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>>733111352
Isn't that basically how society viewed sorcerers/witches for a long time? They were people with terrifying power that only they understood, but received such power only by pacts to the Devil which made them irredeemable. Basically like Jeffrey Epstein but being able to cast fireball instead of putting microtransactions into games.
>>733113305
>>733113398
D'awwww
>>733114030
"To Serve Man"
>>733115164
Yeah but he didn't have a Thanoscopter in the movies

>>733115096
So a sniper with a lot of kills has less EXP than an executioner?

>>733115432
I wouldn't hate that interpretation personally. Being further removed from the victim, lets you commit acts that normally someone would need a lot of LV to perform, but you yourself do not gain as much.

>>733115249
why not just send your guy with nuke powers?

>>733115904
Guys with nuke powers are probably hard to control due to the level of detachment it takes to get that kind of LV.

>>733115252
>"guy really wants to fuck a skeleton so he attempts omnicide
Fucking Sansfags, every time.

>>733115432
Depends, did the executioner do it by lethal injection or by by hand?

>>733115904
What >>733115936 said, also making a guy with nuke powers is probably really hard and tedious.
I bet it's been attempted, maybe even successfully, but mass production of high LV weirdos seems like it'd inherently be a complicated and dangerous process, unless you can just make a Dwarf Fortress puppy fountain or something.

>>733115936
This probably ends the anime way, with a small group of incredibly powerful psychopaths running everything. So if you're a super power psychopath who likes to stab people with a knife, then your boss is a super duper psychopath who likes to kill people with his teeth, and the president (or whoever's really in charge) just kills people by looking at them if their main character level is too low.

>>733116237
>just kills people by looking at them if their main character level is too low.
>his killing intent is too strong!

>>733116237
no wait, the big boss can control people, snowgrave style, and has all the other psychos wrapped around his finger.

>>733116269
That's basically just Aizen

>>733116329
so telling undyne that anime isn't real, was definitely a lie. It's just most low LV people don't get COSMIC BACKING and become determination jesus.

so the real struggle on the surface is going to be dealing with all of these anime characters, or will they all stay in line because somehow a LV 1 golden child appeared.

>>733116431
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PLyi5xHtkb0&list=RDPLyi5xHtkb0&start_radio=1

the surface dealing with a LV19 mastermind before the barrier broke.

>>733116431
Sounds like the plot hook to an Undertale sequel

>>733116570
Undertale two, rise of the Sinistrals.

and yes it will feature a floating island.

>>733115432
I would argue that an executioner does not get as much since detachment also depends on how you justify the death of another. If you're merely executing a guilty party, you're not as sadistic as one killing an innocent.

>>733116524
so the monsters come to the surface just in time to be the sequel arc in an anime that just defeated its big bad

>>733116682
Lufia 2 is a prequel right? Shouldn't that name go to a prequel fangame? doesn't one of them notably feature a floating island [/spoilker]

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>>733116714
>just defeated
oh no anon, I'm saying the forces standing against that LV 19 human had that theme playing for them when the barrier broke
then suddenly
ENTER

>>733116814
With as many anons around here that seem to have not played Lufia 2 I thought I'd get away with that one but yeah it's a prequel
and yes Oldentale apparently has a floating island, a fact that endlessly entertains me

The discussion made me think:

Did anyone ever make a Superhero AU?

>>733117236
I'm sure there's been a couple fics here and there considering how many exist, but I don't think there's anything prominent?

>>733117309
You remember any names?

>>733116863
Oh, so this is Frisk's season 2. Shonen battle Undertale sounds fun.

>>733117396
not off hand I'm sorry, and once yellow became a thing I pretty much stopped searching for normal ut fanfics. It's too exhausting to filter out every variety of skeleton wank and still having your feed be filled with it.

>>733110256
the main point is that cavestory existed. people waited for more of it. some greedy shameless fanboy was not patient or respectful so they fucking RIPPED OFF CaveStory so hard it hurt. all the other shameless retards and clueless retards alike lapped it up. thats undertale

>>733117459
yes, and remember Flowey did mention that not every situation can be solved through pacifism. Will Dash the Avalanche be forced to finally kill Accelerando?

>>733115432
PISS

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>>733117459
>shonen battle undertale sounds fun
funny you should mention that.

>>733117990
Undertale: Resurrection V

>>733116932
I haven't played Lufia 2, but this has got me wondering if there will be other similarities.

>>733118409
I haven't seen any indication from oldentale anon that he has or hasn't played Lufia 2 personally, But I will still be thinking of the really good music in that game when I think of upside town.

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>>733117236
I did a google search for Undertale superhero AU and found this

>>733118546
>oh so it's just a stupid swa-
>child of Starlo and Dalv
I have a hard time determining what I hate more, cocoapodwer or corn yaoi

>>733118546
no matter what happens, the Baby is and will always be (You)

>>733117540
Shonen battle Undertale's version of Clover would just be Vash

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>>733118720
yes, Dash the Avalanche. his brother needles, and the creepy guy that works under Needles, Accelerando.

>>733118707
What if that's the twist of Deltarune, that its a direct sequel to The Baby Is You?

>>733118546
Why did they have to make Starlo and Dalv have a buttbaby....

>>733118857
isnt dalv fucking dead in that AU

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>>733118802
things are taking a weird route...

>>733117990
God, Luzma is so hot (literally and figuratively)

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>>733119027
Agreed, I want more of her.

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>>733118790
behold, Dash the Avalanche

>>733119171
there he is, our hero!

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>>733118495
but doctor, I am pagliacci no I haven't played lufia 2

>>733119248
Ahh I see, then just know that I will be watching always for unintentional similarities. floating islands are cool but I still think of that final battle any time upside town comes up.

>>733118857
Fujos need their bl

>>733118905
Its either him or starlo, since one of them has to be chujn

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>>733118905
>>733119381

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>>733119395
gonna just post the other ones because why not

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>>733119452

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>>733119319
>any time upside town comes up

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>>733119524
I've been had

>>733119510
That Ceroba design is bizarre.
Neat though.
Wait, who's Martlet swapped with in this context?

>>733119510
>everything else is swapped
>Staroba still happens
>Chujin has been eggs husbanded

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>>733110675
>>733112678
Another silent protagonist I want to do add is the Stranger from Darkwood
He's canonically mute because of an incident that happened, but he still express his thoughts through journal entries, and somehow still able communicate with others through dialogue choices
He's kinda like Gordon Freeman. He has his own story, but doesn't have his own dialogue, and is too busy being a badass by fighting monsters to survive

>>733119592
Ceroba looks pretty unhinged here

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>>733119027
I like the snek and bedo

>>733119732
I think it's the fact that only one of her eyes is visible, making her look way more sinister than she probably should be.
Unless she's still up to weird secret stuff even in this AU somehow, in which case I guess it fits.

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I still think having the shadow boxer take the form of a Monster Stones Neo character would be a cool secret boss for Naranja.

>>733119171
>Frisk stands beside the revived fallen children who ascend to their Shonen battle selves in order to oppose the LV 19 humans on the surface together, unaware of the true enemy waiting in the shadows
Will the world survive their anime clash for everlasting peace?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n6WPRsDQd_o&list=RDPLyi5xHtkb0&index=24

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>>733120125
>the leader of the LOVE drunk council is a red soul just like frisk
his older brother
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lBdnti4_UUg&list=RDlBdnti4_UUg&start_radio=1

>>733120057
Still thinking of that idea of DRN where the Shadow boxer is running around creating dark fountains to make Val stronger to eventually face him

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>>733119856
I like all three of them too, but I think Luzma is the prettiest, besides, its cool to have a non animal anthro girl for once

>>733121149
>color update
nice

>>733120760
I imagine the shadowboxer having Yujiro's personality despite being Val's shadow, he is like genocide route Val inserted into Deltarune, the guy just goes around terrorizing every dark world and getting bored because no one can give him a challenge, since he is the ultimate power fantasy

>>733121297
FF14 is a bit of a mess being a modern mmo and all, but I can see the final Val vs Shadowboxer fight being framed like the final Zenos fight.

>>733121149
You need to make a version where the snake tits are real

>>733120125
who's the true enemy in the shadows?

>>733121242
>>733121824
I'm not sig, I just made a color edit of his drawing

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>>733121297
would it be the same genocide val that punches the screen and crashes the game

>>733121893
well then sig should make a version where the snake tits are real

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>>733121878
Frisks father.

>>733121893
well it was a pretty good job with the colors then, felt about right.

>>733121824
>>733122006
sig should make a version where she is flat/has small breasts

>>733120760
>>733121297
Who would be the Ralsei analogue in Deltarune Naranja?

>>733122138
The shadowboxer, duh, he is doing all of this nehind your back, just keeping an eye on Val, making sure the challenges are extreme but not impossible, of course he wouldn't look like Val while he is helping him

>>733121976
He's probably aware of (you) as the source of Val's power, thinking of (you) as a being of pure will. Val of course doesn't care about (you)r presence, his actions feel like his, and he can tell no difference bewteen your will and his, so as far as he's concerned you don't exist. Shadow Boxer wants a challenge, and he doesn't care whether it ultimately comes from Val or (you).

>>733120760
Would Val in DRN be an adult?

>>733122287
That doesn't sound like the Shadow Boxer's personality. Deception is for cowards and weaklings, like the not!Knight who was making the dark worlds before. The Shadow Boxer is Val's shadow, he's all of Val's darkest desires made manifest, his Id basically. And Val has a very active imagination.

His Ralsei would have to be something weaker, maybe a training dummy.

>>733122476
no, still a kid, and he goes to a ghetto school and lives in a bad neighborhood

>>733122287
>>733122138
would Zaer take the 3rd slot in the party?

>>733122587
Zaer would be Val's brother in DRN, their parents are misteriously absent during the entire story, so Zaer is the closest thing Val has in his life to a paternal figure

>>733116524
>>733120125
I like to write to music, and I've used the Bleach soundtrack a lot when writing my fangame.

>>733122708
What if he's his karate instructor? Or maybe a sort of mentor figure who works at the local rec center where Val does his training on the 40 year old beat to hell punching bag.

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>>733122328
>Shadow boxer seperates (you) from Val before the final fight,
>Val has a crisis thinking this means he was fighting with someone elses strength this whole time, effectively cheating
>(you) hold out a hand to him, asking him if he really believes that this strength isn't his.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cYERRiM9RtA&list=RDcYERRiM9RtA&start_radio=1
>all of his hp and tp restores as he stands back up, fighting side by side with his fighting spirit
you don't control him in the final fight, but the finishing move that seals the final dark fountain is a combo attack between (you) and Val.

Val gives all of his energy in that last attack which would kill him, but you, the embodiment of his fighting spirit give up your energy, which means you'll never meet again, his battles are truly his own now

>>733122587
It'd probably be a new OC, or some random background NPC from Naranja.

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>>733123215
>some random background NPC from Naranja.
Behold! Naranja's Ralsei

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>>733122969
>but the finishing move that seals the final dark fountain is a combo attack between (you) and Val.

>>733122739
it's honestly got a lot of good stuff in it. I used to put it on the speaker for my tabletop group.
Cometh the hour part C is perfect for "you should all be afraid"

>>733123306
Oh sorry, I was thinking of the Susie slot. The Ralsei pretty much has to be an OC.

>>733122573
I like the idea of a Deltarune take in a ghetto
What are the explorers in this context then?

>>733123442
I just have one scene that I always associate with Number One

>>733123361
Perfect, and it works because
>this power? it's all yours, don't give up
as (you) slowly fade away. Maybe in the future, Val wonders if (you) are ever watching, he still seeks challenges, but maybe he's grown a little.
I don't want to see val turning into adult gohan so we're ignoring that part

>>733123452
I thought Quetzali would take that spot

>>733123509
I can't blame you, say what you want about bleach as a whole but that song's a jam.

>>733123457
Could be a club that meets a local rec center where Val does his martial arts training. Maybe they do urbex stuff, or maybe its something else entirely.

Actually, maybe Quetzali is a party member. If she's still nuts for exploring, she would absolutely want to be a part of every dark world adventure.

>>733123627
One of my characters is also pretty heavily inspired by all the sad backstory emo guys that show loves so much.

>>733123608
>>733123628
Combine these two. She's a volunteer at the local rec center who ends up stumbling on the dark world while "exploring" the back rooms of the building.

>>733123628
>If she's still nuts for exploring
>urbex
Yeah I imagine Quetzali being into urban exploration instead, Val's ghetto is near an abandoned industrial complex or something like that, which is the place were they met for the first time

would DR quetzali still swap forms randomly or would it be one form in light world and another in dark?

>>733123834
maybe her transformations in the dark world would work like legend of dragoon transformations.

>>733123834
I think it'd be a light world vs dark world thing. I think the dark world should be the one where she's a flying snake.

>>733123827
She tries to spook him away from her turf by slithering down from above, but he just looks up and disarms her with his dumb grin.

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>>733123570
>I don't want to see val turning into adult gohan so we're ignoring that part
Would you rather he turned into a different adult Gohan?

>>733124005
Hey, Val's favorite character is Bardock, I imagine he likes future Gohan a lot for the same reasons, he would finally turn into one of his biggest heroes

>>733124005
that gohans personality except he lives because this is post DRN good ending.

>>733124005
Who is trunks in this scenario?

I'm gonna write a little fanfiction, styled after chapter 2 era predictions. Let's see if I can finish it before this thread dies.

>>733123891
On one hand we get feral Quetzali in Deltarune, on the other hand we would be missing on seeing Quetzali wearing Aztec clothes in her dark world form

>>733122573
>Deltarune takes place in a suburb
>DRY takes places on the countryside
>DRN takes place in a ghetto
Deltarune take in the big city when?

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>>733124389
that's deltarune broken destiny (if it ever comes out)

>>733124236
I'd be interested in seeing that. this thread makes me want to write something with this DRN fever dream when I can.

>>733112348
>>733113753
>>733112521
The actual number would be a lot higher since the EXP threshold to hit a given LV increases for every degree. It's 10 EXP for LV 1->2 and 1000 for LV 11->12. LV gain also seems to be purely affected by strength, since executing Pap gives relatively little EXP (which I think is contrary to the theme that LOVE tries to get across, but that's neither here nor there).

So you couldn't just grind up some hobos for an evil Superman--not unless you're prepared to sacrifice literal thousands. You'd have to feed him powerful foes. I'm not sure what that would look like though, since you can't just feed him LOVE filled humans; the problem of total kills needed comes back around in having to create those humans as fodder. Having combat sport pros be big bags of potential EXP also feels weird.

>>733124389
>>733124441
Deltarune take in a Gated high-income neighborhood when?

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Oh this is a surprise. I wasn't expecting there to be a new thread.
Well might as well let my presence be known, and to let you guys know, I'm working on completing the requests.
Hopefully I can post them soon.

>>733124820
Have you ever done a Roba?

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>>733124389
>>733124792
How about a quaint coastal town? Everything could have a nautical and aquatic theme to it.

>>733125887
Deltarune Cyan?

>>733125360
The Martlet drawanon has drawn Ceroba before.
This was highly requested image they did of her, which garnered a lot of attention.
https://files.catbox.moe/3y4vjh.png

And here's a recent image they did of her, along with Martlet and Zenith Martlet.
https://files.catbox.moe/wwha8r.png

Their stuff also gets uploaded to e6, just search Undertale Yellow with 4chan anon to find what they've drawn.

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>>733124251
>darkworld Quetzali

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I think Quetzali is very cute but I think people might be getting a bit too attached to a minor shopkeeper from the starting area just because she's presently the only "waifuable" character in the demo. I'm not saying she absolutely can't end up as a recurring role, but based on what we've seen of her I don't think she'll be major enough to get a whole party slot in Deltarune Naranja, as an example. Keep having fun, just keep in mind that you may be projecting a bit (and if you're fine with that then that's fine)

>>733127553
I already spoiled she is going to be a recurring character

>>733127672
Well I feel foolish, everyone carry on as if I said nothing

>>733127553
People here got attached to Kanako, a character with less than 5 minutes of screen time, in fact that attachment to Kanako is what kept these threads alive in the first place

>>733127553
aside from effort, one of the other things i find attractive in a woman is being passionate about her interests. Even if she wasn't going to be reoccurring, she showed herself to be cute when talking about exploring.

the way her eyes got in some sprites was pretty good.

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>>733127785
She goes Waku Waku when talking about what she likes

>>733127909
And unashamed excitement like that makes ME go doki doki.

>>733127962
>Doki Doki Waku Waku
Sounds like the name of a romcom about two autists that are really passionate about their interests

>>733128056
I'd watch it, better than anything else on tv now I'm sure.

>>733128056
Anon...
https://youtu.be/RtTYQuO1j6w

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still thinking about the fox and the bird, just also thinking about the snake too.

>>733128804
Another character enters the pantheon of fangame waifus.

>>733128804
Your head will become a zoo by the time the other fangames release

>>733128924
>and the fox, and the bird, and the wisp, and the slime, and the other fox, and the snake, and-

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>>733128804
I imagine that when each of us dies we'll all just see [picrel] but with our own respective glorbos.

>>733129018
>and the bear, and the rabbit, and the alpaca, and the bat, and the red panda, and gandalf the grey, and gandalf the white, and monty python and the holy grail's black knight

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>>733128924
We gotta start making even weirder animal characters to fuck with that anon in particular
Get him thinking about platypi or something

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>>733129226
god I can only hope.
just asking my absolute fucking mishmash of absurd creatures
>did I live a good life, are you happy to see me?

>>733129284
I'll fucking buy a drink for the anon that somehow manages to make me swoon over a god damned platypus of all things.

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>>733129386
We already have a sexy platypus in fiction.

>>733129458
I do not spend time thinking about Perry the Platypus

>>733129339
Imagine if you die in a really stupid and embarrassing way and they're all just barely managing to hold back their laughter at you when you see them.

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>>733129512
ow

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>>733128804
>>733129018
If I didn't already have a pony waifu Applejack I would go crazy. Fangame connoisseurs are spoiled for choice.
>>733129339
Imagine if some saint or prophet gets confirmation that being with your favorite fictional character is part of the package deal for Heaven. There would be so many converts all of a sudden.

>>733129284
Whats the weirdest animal so far seen in a fangame (as part of the main cast)?
Naranja's sea slug?

>>733129570
Don't worry, they still love you.
It's just like watching your spouse-to-be get hit with a pie in the face as they walk down the aisle.

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>>733129683
I thought about writing something from this, and immediately got sad thinking about it so never mind.

>>733129790
Tragic.

>>733129790
I do still just like the idea of dying in a really dumb way, waking up in the afterlife or another world or whatever to see whatever character trying so hard to refrain from laughing their ass off while they ask if I'm okay.

>>733129981
>>733129849
it was something like, going into a dangerous situation "heroically" but not being brave at all so you're practically at tears already as you face it just constantly reminding yourself that you'll see the scrimblos (but not really believing it and just telling yourself that to make yourself do the right thing). Doing something cool in the most uncool way, then actually seeing them and they're laughing at you but with tears in their eyes too.

>>733124460
Alright, over 900 words. I'm gonna make a little artwork to go alongside it.

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>>733130208

>>733130087
>Doing something cool in the most uncool way
If it's stupid but it works, then it isn't stupid.
If telling yourself that you'll be with your fox wife or bird wife or whatever in the next life is what gets you to be a hero, you're a hero.
Even if your anthro wife laughs at you a little.

>>733130240
the part that made me sad was
the thought of facing that moment truly believing that there's nothing waiting for you, the despair in that moment as you force yourself forward with something you know is a lie . That crushing feeling, I saw a glimpse of it as the thought came to mind.

>>733130087
Most "heroes" are utterly terrified when doing what needs to be done. Do you know what's more embarrassing than dying during a heroic deed besides backing down? Living and blurting out how you hoped to see the scrimblos as a motivator.
>>733130335
The long dark night of the SOUL....

>>733130335
>the thought of facing that moment truly believing that there's nothing waiting for you, the despair in that moment as you force yourself forward with something you know is a lie
I can think of worse things than nothing.
But yeah, fair.

Naranja link?

>>733130403
>Do you know what's more embarrassing than dying during a heroic deed besides backing down?
>Living and blurting out how you hoped to see the scrimblos as a motivator.
NTA, but depending on what your heroic deed actually is, I don't think anyone is allowed to make fun of you for anything ever.
If you singlehandedly saved the world from being destroyed by aliens or something, you can say whatever the hell you want was your motivation, you just saved the whole entire world from aliens.

>>733130403
>>733130436
>Most "heroes" are utterly terrified when doing what needs to be done.
I know, bravery is not the absence of fear. My vivid imagination simple conjured a specter of that feeling that I was not ready for.

>>733130538
honestly it doesn't even have to be that big. Like if you stopped an active shooter, people are going to make fun of you probably, but it's in the same breath that you get called hero in.

>>733130602
>My vivid imagination simple conjured a specter of that feeling that I was not ready for.
Look, you know that bit in SBR where Jesus is guiding Johnny Joestar's hand to shoot?
Just imagine that but with whatever character you like the next time you need to save the world or something.

>>733130451
>>>/vrpg/3928556

>>733130679
>scrimblo, guide my hand
>as anon was interviewed after the event, he was unable to form complete sentences to explain just what he meant by that.
>In related news, the spaghetti produced today may just end world hunger

>>733130641
Eh, yeah, fair.
I just think that the more heroic your deed is, the less people are gonna make fun of you.
So like, if you stop an active shooter with dying and being with your anthro fox wife as your motivation for doing so, a decent number of people are gonna make fun of you.
You stop a nuclear bomb from going off in a civilian population center with that as your motivator?
No one's gonna question you, you are currently the coolest man on the entire planet, you're untouchable.

>>733130807
There's definitely a scale at play here. I think people would be buying you drinks and cheering you on even in the less extreme case. A hero is a hero even if they have life threatening autism.

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What the fuck is this thread?
What's a Naranja?

>>733130923
Undertale Fangame developed by a guy here.
Currently there's a demo.

>>733130923
undertale fangame being made by a local anon. Theres a demo out that has received frequent updates.

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>>733130780
You only make spaghetti if you choose to, overcome your cringe and own your new identity as the anon who nearly died a hero just to fulfill his hmofa dreams.

>>733130923
and yes, we're fiercely autistic, but this is one of the few places on this board you'll find people still having passion in their autistic love of video games. Naranjanon has been taking peoples feedback into account as he'd been working.

>>733130907
>A hero is a hero even if they have life threatening autism.
Hell yeah, what are they gonna do, laugh at the man who just saved people's lives like that?

>>733130923
>>733131021

oh yeah actually, there's several dev projects being actively worked on here. it's still crazy to me how many video games have come out of 4chan.

>>733129284
you're on to something, do a reverse platypus

>>733131164
What the fuck is a reverse platypus

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>>733130208
(Part 1)
The horizon is nothing but an endless swampland, the darkness grows as they move away from the colorful castle gardens and the fields of wheat. Noelle is worried about their missing friends, while Kris only seems bothered by all the painful, spiky bushes in their way

>If Susie was here…
>I bet she could cut a way out.

She looks around, all paths look the same, as they have been for a while.

>Kris… are you sure we aren’t lost?
>That stone pillar looks just like the one from before.

Tired, Kris decides to sit for a bit and reconsider. They encountered some local darkners before, but none had any useful information. Kris notices Noelle is walking away, and fears she might get lost.

>Huh? Oh… I didn’t notice you had stopped.
>This way might be it, I don’t quite know why.
>I think… I could take the lead for a bit, Kris?

Having nothing more to try, you accept her proposal. On each crossroads, she picks a direction as if she could feel the wilderness around them. After a while, they approach a stone entrance, covered in spikes, leading to a cave. You want to know what’s there.

>That doesn’t look like the way out…
>I’ll wait here if you wanna check.

Kris heads into the cave. The dark tunnels eventually open into a glade. There is no exit around, but it looks quite peaceful. Flowers cover the entire ground, a blend of bright golden and pink that surrounds a stone arc at the very center. Kris approaches this arc, and under it, there is a flower unlike all others. A rose with lively red color, petals all curled inside, turned into the ground. Her name is Carmin. She seems to notice the visitor, and turns around to greet it.

>I see you there.
>You’re the prince, aren’t you?
>The true prince.

You affirm her question. Her petals uncurl, revealing a smile.

>Kris. I felt you’d come here.
>You must be feeling so tired after all that went on.
>But there isn’t anything to worry about, my prince will always be a friend.

>>733131441
(Part 2)
Kris listens to the rose in silence.

>Our good king seems to have forgotten about me.
>I was supposed to be there, together with my siblings.
>Sadly, I’m too delicate and fragile, leaving this place might kill me.
>Or maybe it was something else, I wouldn’t know.
>...

She appears to be feeling hurt about something. Yet, her smile returns.

>My dear, is there anyone special to you?
>That someone who plays with your very soul?
>Making sweet music with it?
>I feel that someone is out there, waiting for you…

The rose disappears into the ground, only to sprout again in front of Kris.

>Your will is powerful. More than anyone else.
>I can help you, prince.
>Gift me to that someone. Let my life be fulfilled.
>Pluck me. Let me become your strength…

Kris’s hand surrounds Carmin’s stem. It’s as if time itself was slowing down.

>* (You got ThornR-

A fiery blur strikes Kris’s hand. It leaves the rose behind, and Kris falls back.

>RUN! GET OUT OF HERE!

Flames are scattered on the ground. As if appearing out of nothing, Ralsei raises Kris, pulling him back into the exit. The spiky vines grow as they run. One grabs Ralsei by his ankle, pulling him back inside. Kris desperately slashes the vines, but there are too many. The entrance is now blocked by them, and Ralsei is stuck inside.

Susie and Noelle were outside waiting for them. Susie rushes into Kris, once again fallen on the ground.

>Kris! Where is Ralsei?
>Goddammit, goddammit! They got him!
>I shouldn’t have let him go alone.

Noelle approaches them, trying to say something.

>I… I think he can get out of this.
>Anyone can be more brave than they seem.

Susie looks back into the cave, her voice trembling.

>You’re right.
>All we can now do is…
>Is to think about Ralsei, and hope.

>>733131484
(Part 3 Final)
The flames have now spread across the whole glade. Ralsei is running around, escaping from her whipping vines.

>I’m gonna KILL YOU!

Carmin screams in her pain and anger.

>I’m not letting you hurt them! No one!

>Your word has no command in this land!
>You are not the prince, the others are all wrong! Wrong!

>Listen to me, please!
>It doesn’t has to be this way!
>I can take you to my castle, you’re not going to be left alone again!

>This means nothing! You don’t get what my love is!
>No one but the prince knows it!

Ralsei gets filled with dread. She might be too far gone. There is nothing to be done here but FIGHT. He conjures more and more fire, spreading across the whole glade. The flowers burn, the air crackles with power. This is too much for a rose, as strong as she is.

Carmin loses her strength, her body now burned. Ralsei approaches her, still afraid. She only stares at the ground.

>There is nothing left now. No light for me. And not for any of you.
>You know that well, don’t you?

>I don’t believe that. I just can’t.

>Ha ha…
>You’re an odd darkner.
>My roots will wither soon.
>Please take this with you… as an apology.
>it’s not useful for me anymore.

>(Ralsei got ShadowCrystal)

Carmin turns into ashes, and all vines fall down. The entrance is now clear again, and his friends rush inside. Susie is relieved and joyful at seeing Ralsei well, yet he just stays there, holding the crystal and staring blankly into the charred chaos.

>>733131536
>Ralsei casting fire

kinooooooo I love that theory good green

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fell mart

>>733131441
nice, I'm going to give it a read shortly when I finish writing something myself here.

>>733132949
nigga martlet

>>733132949
...Why is she brown?

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>>733132949
Superior Fell Mart

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>>733132949
Lots of questionable Martlet designs going around lately.

>>733133113
it wouldn't be a bad design, if it wasn't for Martlet. it it was just some unrelated bird monster I could see it working. But god damn imagining Marlet like that

>>733132949
I see she still has problems only wearing clothes the same color as her feathers

>>733133113
egglet

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I didn't wake up in time to reply to this reply to my post about Clover's potential caretakers in the last thread, so I'm gonna do it here because I feel like it.
>Using her daughter in the experiments was one of the her fuck ups.
That is a mistake, yes.
>Prioritising her husbands questionable legacy over her daughters well being was another.
That is the same mistake.
>Somehow letting her daughter convince her into using her, when she and adult, should've known better, is another.
That is the same mistake again. Good job counting.
>And had she not been stopped, she would have killed Clover to continue her list of screw ups.
Semantically speaking, not a screw up if it's an intentional decision.
>It's not really OOC for Ceroba to do what she did, because they already made it clear that she idolized her husband to a very unhealthy degree.
No, it's OOC for someone so devoted to her family that she's willing to kill another person for their sake to have been willing to endanger her own daughter to begin with. If she was written properly, Kanako would have injected herself behind Ceroba's back.
>Ceroba is the last person that would be a good parent for Clover.
From everything we see of Ceroba in UTY, she was basically a perfect wife and mother up until Chujin decided to hand her the reigns of his secret conspiratorial science project. Like that one anon said a few months ago when comparing Ceroba and Toriel after the recent DR chapters came out, if you take away Chujin's death and the blue powerade from Ceroba's backstory, you'd have to pull some pretty contrived shit to have her in the same position she's in in UTY in a DRY take.
Ceroba was basically a perfect parent to Kanako for multiple years straight up until she got dropped into some pretty extreme circumstances. Take that away, and there's no problem at all.
Martlet can barely hold down a job properly and nearly got Clover killed within five minutes of tasking herself with their protection.

>>733133485
>Semantically speaking, not a screw up if it's an intentional decision.
not that anon, but semantically speaking, a mistake can be something that you did intentionally, and was the wrong call.
>If she was written properly, Kanako would have injected herself behind Ceroba's back.
I agree with that though.
>>Ceroba is the last person that would be a good parent for Clover.
From everything we see of Ceroba in UTY, she was basically a perfect wife and mother up until Chujin decided to hand her the reigns of his secret conspiratorial science project
I disagree here though. I'm not calling her bad, but she failed to notice chujins downward spiral and the secret lab he was using that was literally underneath the main room table. She failed to notice the warning signs, something understandable but not "perfect".

>>733133485
To elaborate, Ceroba's failings exclusively exist in the fantastical world of UTY. If she existed in a more grounded world like a DRY take, nothing bad would've ever happened to Kanako, and likely Chujin for that matter.
By contrast, Martlet's failings are entirely baked into her. She's a klutz, immature, irresponsible, can barely take care of herself, doesn't pay close attention to her surroundings, etc.
Sure, maybe she could grow into it, or maybe she'd accidentally leave Clover in a car without the handbrake engaged as it rolls into oncoming traffic. Given how the first thing she did with them was send them over a cliff at high speeds and somehow manage to not find them until they had already been traveling by themself to the nearest town, I'd say her track record isn't looking so great.

>>733133624
>I'm not calling her bad, but she failed to notice chujins downward spiral and the secret lab he was using that was literally underneath the main room table.
I think most people probably wouldn't leap to the conclusion of "my spouse is hiding a MJ12 lab somewhere inside our house" even if they thought there was something fishy going on at any point, and we have no reason to assume she ever really suspected anything off about Chujin.
Even if she did notice a hidden room down there, that doesn't necessarily mean there's something questionable happening. I've been in houses that had dedicated breaker rooms in relatively secret areas like that, that's not the most unusual thing in the world.
Plus, Chujin could've easily just made sure to only ever go into his lab whenever Ceroba was out of the house or otherwise not in a position to discover what he was doing, so I wouldn't necessarily pin any blame on her for this.

>>733133650
I can't agree with that. I've always felt like Ceroba is someone who gets tunnel vision on goals in the worst way. it can be a virtue in certain situations, and a terrible flaw in others. She's 'too' focused on the goal, and people like that can make terrible decisions in the pursuit of those goals. the problem is they paired an unrealistic mistake (giving kanako the syringe) with that flaw, but the flaw is still there.

>>733133786
Alright, so how exactly does she mess up in a DRY take like she did in UTY then?
What kind of tunnel vision makes her kill her own daughter in a DRY setting, let's hear it.

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>>733133775
>I think most people probably wouldn't leap to the conclusion of "my spouse is hiding a MJ12 lab somewhere inside our house" even if they thought there was something fishy going on at any point,
anon, look at how the door to the lab opens.

She had to be willfully not asking questions with this thing.
>>733133827
>What kind of tunnel vision makes her kill her own daughter in a DRY setting, let's hear it.
the fuck are you talking about. I said that killing her daughter was an absolutely stupid mistake to have her do. She has Decision making tunnel vision, but syringing her daughter genuinely made no sense and should have been written differently.

>>733133889
I also just noticed, it's really loud when it opens. I think what's most likely is she poured blind faith in chujin, and decided to not ask questions.
any excuses chujin could have given would be red flags too
>its my lab
he already has one in the house, would he forbid her from entering this one?
>it's a wine cellar
"that you're in for hours at a time repeatedly?"
>don't worry about it
"ok dear, I wont worry about why you have a hidden trap door that can't be opened without moving the table that's hiding it"

I love the fox, but look at that door.

>>733133889
>She had to be willfully not asking questions with this thing.
I am reasonably certain that is not how Chujin was leaving it when he went down there.
>the fuck are you talking about.
I said Ceroba's failings would exist exclusively in the world and context of UTY, and you said you disagree.
Ceroba's biggest failing was with the serum project, which, if we take an face-value and entirely disregard the issue of the actual writing, was an entirely extraordinary circumstance that would only exist in the world of UTY.
She might still get tunnel vision on certain things in a normal context, but I can't see anything in a more grounded scenario that would result in her making the same kind of decisions she made in UTY, therefore her failings are still exclusive to UTY even if her general mindset might not be.
That's the important part of this topic, that Ceroba's biggest issues are exclusive to the fantasy world of UTY, whereas Martlet's issues are a core part of her character and have the potential to be lethal even in a more grounded setting.

>>733134091
>I also just noticed, it's really loud when it opens.
He could've been waiting until she left the house to open it.
>he already has one in the house, would he forbid her from entering this one?
Could contain more dangerous equipment and technology that Ceroba wouldn't understand and would therefore be at risk of harming herself with. Ceroba herself knows how technologically illiterate she is, I don't think she'd argue too much on that front.
>"that you're in for hours at a time repeatedly?"
He could have some means of knowing when Ceroba is around and specifically enter and leave the lab when she's not around to see it. Could be as simple as a proximity alarm letting him know when someone's in any given room of the house, who knows.
>"ok dear, I wont worry about why you have a hidden trap door that can't be opened without moving the table that's hiding it"
Pretty sure one of the flashbacks in pacifist during her fight has dialogue implying she had no idea the room even existed, so the likeliest answer is that he kept it hidden from her entirely, like I've been suggesting.

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are we going to have another back and forth that takes over half the thread again?

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>>733134343
Gotta keep it afloat somehow.

>>733134425
no, that's silly. I'm not going to spend time arguing the simple statement "Ceroba has flaws". I have a Roba thing to finish writing. If anon is so deep in his love of Roba that he doesn't find extreme stubbornness to be a flaw, then that's his prerogative.

>>733134621
>If anon is so deep in his love of Roba that he doesn't find extreme stubbornness to be a flaw, then that's his prerogative.
Stubbornness is a flaw, but it was apparently not a big enough one to cause any problems until she was handed the serum project, so outside the extraordinary circumstances of the world of UTY, it's not a relevant flaw.
Martlet's flaws are much bigger and much more central to her character. If she was left in charge of a baby, I'd give it a good 50/50 chance that it would end up crushed under an improperly balanced piece of furniture.
I'm not arguing that Ceroba doesn't have flaws, I'm saying her flaws only became volatile when combined with her being given a secret conspiratorial science project that she was told was the only salvation for her species if the barrier broke, by her dying husband no less.
Ceroba's flaws endangered Kanako only after several years and after she was put into some pretty extreme circumstances.
Martlet's flaws endangered Clover literally instantly.

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It's been a bit hard for me to bother reading these threads when half of them are these drawn out bland arguments

Anons argue about shit like Mike on the Deltarune threads don't feel as boring

>>733134785
No anon, I'm not arguing with you about this. You've got worse stubbornness than Ceroba, an amazing ability to come up with a potential excuse for every mistake Ceroba makes, while asserting that every mess up Martlet makes is something immutable about her character that will happen again. It's not an engaging argument.

>>733134929
neither thread this weekend has had one of these arguments, and I'm not engaging in one now.

>>733134958
>>733134929
though that said, I have to say fuck you real quick. I saw one of those mike discussions play out this weekend as well. they are the definition of Inane at this point. I'm sure the people who frequent those threads are just thrilled to hear another "toby changed deltarune as a personal attack to me" argument.

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>>733135006
DR arguments have real flame and salt to them, UTY arguments are just mucho texto, all the time

>>733134958
>You've got worse stubbornness than Ceroba
Ouch.
>an amazing ability to come up with a potential excuse for every mistake Ceroba makes
Ceroba made a grand total of 2 (two) mistakes: Not noticing her husband's secret MJ12 lab when he was actively hiding it from her, and doing something so stupid that just about everyone in this argument literally agreed it was OOC for her to do.
>while asserting that every mess up Martlet makes is something immutable about her character that will happen again.
She makes multiple mistakes throughout her time traveling with Clover. First is the high velocity boat crash, which would almost certainly be lethal if translated to a more grounded world, second is not finding Clover until they had already been by themself for long enough to make it to the nearest town alone (excluding Flowey, arguably), and third is not having her royal guard identification on her (when that's probably as important in the world of UT as a police badge, which is to say, very) resulting in her being detained and unable to help Clover for the foreseeable future until they had to go face down Starlo, a man who was trying to kill them with a firearm.
Maybe Martlet could whip herself into shape somehow, but going off of what we see of her in UTY, Ceroba would absolutely be the better caretaker in a setting entirely divorced from the ungroundedness of UT's world.

>>733135123
do you perhaps place more value on the "entertainment value" of the arguments where it's schizos throwing their personal grievances with toby and how he changed everything to specifically bother them, compared to arguments based on actual information from the games?
if so then I can't argue with you on that, they come up with some absolutely wild thought processes, but I do consider proper video game discussions to be more valuable.

>>733135176
>ouch
I didn't mean to be insulting, but I'm not up for this minimizing maximizing dance tonight. It's not happening.

>>733135349
>I didn't mean to be insulting,
I was being facetious, I've been called worse than that.
>I'm not up for this minimizing maximizing dance tonight. It's not happening.
That's fine, but I do think it's a tad unfair to be so reductive of my arguments like you were just then.
Then again, what goes around comes around, eh?

>>733135456
an enjoyable argument is one in which both sides can make concessions and put themselves in the stance of the other.

now then, I'm trying to determine just how saucy The Roba is, and just how much so I'm comfortable writing at this point.

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>>733135558
>an enjoyable argument is one in which both sides can make concessions and put themselves in the stance of the other.
Hey, I was even willing to admit that Martlet *could* end up turning into a decent caretaker, it'd just be like betting on Schrodinger's cat for a while.
>I'm trying to determine just how saucy The Roba is, and just how much so I'm comfortable writing at this point.
Well, if there was ever a reason for me to back down, that's about it. I actually have something to work on about Ceroba myself, as a matter of fact.
Until we meet again anon, I hope your endeavors are fruitful.

>>733131164
I still want to know what a reverse platypus is.

>>733135710
Take each part of platypus and select an equivalent part from whatever the opposite animal is.
So, what's the opposite of the main body, a beaver's tail, and a bird's beak?

>>733135776
you've answered my question with a question. I haven o idea what the opposite of a beavers tail is.

>>733135710
bird with lips

>>733135820
This is just gonna be one of those problems that only has an abstract answer, like high level mathematics.

>>733135858
>monster introduces itself as a reverse platypus
>have the option to ask what a reverse platypus is
>it shrugs in response
>>733135840
frightening

>>733135879
Alternatively,
>have the option to ask what a reverse platypus is
>monster says "me"
>the question is answered

>>733135964
honestly that feels more on brand.

>>733135990
Do you think the reverse platypus would still lay eggs, or is this a bird that gives live births that also has lips?

>>733136176
I-
I don't think it would lay eggs but I dislike the other option.

>>733136363
You set yourself upon the forbidden path of the reverse platypus, and now you don't like where it's taken you?
You are a coward and a fool.
You will have the answers you initially sought, whether you like it or not.

>>733136407
This frightening path was given to me not of my choosing. Birds are not supposed to have lips. The beak, the beak!
the beak.

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>>733136459
I found this.
I personally think it should look more offputting and uncomfortable, but I don't feel like making an edit of my own.

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>>733136459
>Birds are not supposed to have lips.
Whatever the true form of the reverse platypus is I hope it has a mouth like this.

>>733136553
>>733136513
this could be so very much worse, and for that I'm thankful.

>>733136607
An animal with the main body of a bird, human lips, gives live births, has non-duck legs, and is poisonous.
Platypuses are venomous, so I've decided the reverse platypus instead kills you if you eat it.

>>733136671
>poisonous
that's funny, are monsters edible? is their dust edible? are they poisonous until they turn to dust?

>>733136904
>is their dust edible?
Maybe it's like asbestos.