>Morrowind has 3 times as many factions you can join.>Attributes have been stripped down to a simple 3 stat system>Birth signs are now standing stones you find in the wild that have varying degrees of usefulness (No, I don't think gain X% amount of exp for certain skills is a good mechanic in RPGs. Why the fuck would I want to level through a game faster?)>Races now only affect two traits and that's it. The next game will probably make race 100% cosmetic, mark my words>There's overall less spells and many spells have been nerfed to death.>Less skills than previous entries yet the system is somehow even worse because now there's several filler skills that are just shoved into the game so that each class type can get 6 skills each (pick pocket should have been merged with sneak. It's insane how much of a filler skill this is. They could have easily replaced it with something useful) >Perks are vague on what they do and how much of a percentage. If you look up what some of the perks actually do you'll realized everything in this game is a meaningless illusionWhy was this game such a simplification compared to Morrowind and Oblivion?
>>733138535It's 2026, anon. The only people still playing or praising vanilla Skyrim is the Strawman in your head. Everyone else is playing modded or moved on.
>>733138671i am the strawman. Vanilla is good because it prevents it's simplified mechanics from fucking over with the go-fight-loot-sell-go loop
>>733138671Contrarian cope
The worst part is that despite heavily dumbing down everything it was financially their biggest game ever. I don't think this is necessarily thanks to the dumbing down, it's moreso because gaming as a whole was rapidly ballooning in popularity in the 00s and 10s, but it's easy to assume there's a cause & effect going on.
Fallout 4 was an interesting step forward in terms of character progression. It had major flaws - tying critical hits to those horrible vats cutscenes for example - but gating ALL perks behind special ranks made both systems more meaningful, it was a brilliant solution.
>>733138535I'd argue the best way to enjoy Skyrim is as an adventure game. It's not an RPG at this point, but the atmosphere, music and locations are great. Improve the graphics and the thing is a wallpaper generator. Hell, anons back in 2011 were making scenic threads on the locations.
>>733138535Amazing how Todd still manages to live rent free in your head, 15 years later. I'm sorry people like a game you hate, anon.
>>733139139This is what everyone misses about nuscrolls. I fucking hate RPGs but Skyrim was fun. The audience for adventure games is just bigger and Bethesda is all too willing to flush what made the old games good for a new wave of fans. Unfortunately they chased too hard and now even people like me think their games have gone too far into nothingburger territory
>>733138535Oh no, not my favorite faction the Imperial Cult! lmao
>>733138535Attributes were ultimately useless, perks are a far better system for distinguishing between characters, and you kid yourself if you think anyone actually took into account the differences between races vs just playing the one they visually liked, always.
>>733139075It's defintiely a better character building system than Skyrim. Even if I hate how perks are locked off by your overall level which means you can't specialize in a single talent like you can in other RPGs. I think Fallout 3 has the worst system of any RPG they've because everything is an illusion and character build hardly even matter. At least F4 and Skyrim feels like you can do different builds. F3 gives you way too many perks and your stats don't do that much unlike other Fallout games and you can pretty much max out every skill
they're not really factions because they're not opposing each otherthey're more like clubs
>>733138535Skyrim haters are so dumb it's exhausting>(No, I don't think gain X% amount of exp for certain skills is a good mechanic in RPGsIt's what class specialization and major skills did. I usually play with one of the archetype stones, at least until I unlock some of the more fun and important abilities.
>>733138535No one cares.
>>733138535Kneel, faggot.
>>733139139OP here and I pretty much agree with this. I love the world map and the atmosphere and the music a lot. It's an incredibly immersive game. I have learned to enjoy this game for it's strengths I just sometimes wish I had all that good stuff mixed with Morrowind's or even Daggerfall's character builder and RPG mechanics
>>733139139RPGs aren't supposed to be spreadsheet simulators.
>>733139335>Oh no having multiple factions is badFuck off, faggot. I like playing as a cleric or paladin who works for the imperial cult. I can't even imagine the sorry state of the kind of RPGs you enjoy
>>733139265>whannn you can't say anything bad about a game on here. Everyone is so negative yet I still post on here with a false sense of superiority Quit crying like a bitch. I still enjoy Skyrim but these are vaild criticisms. Go back to plebbit if you can't handle your favorite game getting some well deserved shit
>>733139664They're supposed to have some stats at least. And RPGs always were filled with numbers and character stats, your zoomer is showing.
>>733139664depends on the rpg
>>733139664They should be
>>733139713> I like playing as a cleric or paladin who works for the imperial cultBut you don't do that, that faction is nothing but picking alchemy ingredients for 10 hours.
>>733139834Aww, little anon has learned how to post in the big scary 4chan(nel) for the first time and has learned how to use such meanie words like 'plebbit'! Good job!
>>733138535And yet Skyrim is still one of the best games ever made and all you can do about it is keep coping.
>>733138535Mods fix literally all of that and your deliberate aversion to them does not discount them. Really odd considering how much this place loves shilling TR.
>>733138535Morrowind's factions were quantity over quality with 70% of their quests being radiant-tier fetch quests. Not even gonna read the rest of that's your first point.
>>733139975stats exist in DnD for a very specific reason that simply isn't true for vidiya
>>733140108It's mid bro.
>>733138535Skyrim is amazing dude
>>733140108According to who? Journos and casuals? Skyrim is not even in the top 100 RPGs of all time on rpgcodex.
Magic skills were overall fine though magic itself sucks due to general scaling and how leveling up your mana bar only ever kept you on par of where you should be at, never ahead. One handed and Two handed should just been under a generalized offense skill. If you going to cut out all of the fluff then go all of the way, don't halfass it by pretending swinging a bigger sword is any different. Smithing felt awful to level and shouldn't been a skill at all if it just going to be gated the way it was. You can make better potions and better enchantments but armor only gave a flat value, it isn't the same. Light armor and heavy armor could been under the same tree and just be called defense. Sneak and lockpicking could been under the same tree. Speech just like smithing may as well not even exist in the state it became. There aren't even levels, there is literally only like 4 set gates in terms of skill checks.Honestly the only thing keeping Skyrim from being the best game to play at lv1 is the fact there are quests only magically spawn in at set levels. https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/38151 oh opps I accidently undermine leveling as a concept completely from Skyrim. What a well made game it is. Know what would improve skyrim in more ways than one? Make guilds actual guilds again with real ranks and skill requirements for said ranks. As much as I love a random quest to punch a women merchant to the ground because she talk shit once just to get the exact same quest again right after to suddenly be qualified to literally own the whole guild I think I pref Morrowind way of things where you actually start as a nobody and earn your own shit. Being the chosen one 20 times over is meaningless when none of it is earned, we just playing as Todd's fanfic character because the retard doesn't understand RPGs. Dude hates Morrowind though he is often credited as the savior of it and the company. I have zero hopes for TES6, for me the company died when Skyrim became a "success"
>>733140565>rpgcodex
>>733140108Can't keep the Todd™ down.
>>733138535>compared to OblivionOblivion simplified almost everything that Skyrim gets blamed for. It's just that Oblivion is irrelevant trash so people blame Skyrim for it instead.
>>733138535what i love about these skyrim haters is that i usualy find they have played morrowind far less than me. Even in that list you made, i can find ways to tell you are one of those. Just another fucking bait thead. Skyrim is a fanastic game, keep coping retard
>>733140045Why are you talking like a twitter faggot?
>>733140108I love the seethe and cope that shitting on Skyrim causes.
>>733140439You're a retard who wants everything to be call of duty. Let me guess you were born after 2005
>>733140616>Spells are level scaled and don't show up until you reach a certain level with that skillThis shit pissed me off. It was annoying being gated off from spell depending on your skill in Oblivion but at least they still spawned in the world so you knew what spells to work towards. Skyrim just does it in such a poor way.
>>733141109>skyrim baby seethe post number 2837I love how these underaged anons keep popping into the thread to seethe.
>>733141109I've been playing Morrowind since you were sucking on your mother's tits, zoomie. Why do you retards make the most retarded assumptions and then proceed to take them as a fact. You have to be 18 years or older to post on here
Why did this post cause so many skyrim fans to seethe so hard? I love Skyrim but these are all fair complaints. Tbh I've just learned to accept each game for their own strengths. That being said, Skyrim is a casualized game compared to the games that came before it.
>>733138535>Morrowind has 3 times the radiant fetch quest givers (Even though skyrim questlines suck dick too)>Attributes were redundant since Morrowind>Birth Signs were always either a minor stat boost or a "do you wanna be a strong mage" check, with Atronach being the only fun sign>Races' attribute effects were negligible, starting skills are still there, and passive effects weren't that important outside of Bretons and High Elves being stupidly OP>Most "cut" spells were buffs that were moved to enchants, broken shit like weakness to Magicka, or memes like Dispel>Yeah "Thief" skills are absolutely dumb, they should've at least kept Athletics/Acrobatics as a sprint related skill>The only illusion is just how inconsequential actual perks are compared to profession skills allowing you to gearcheck everything to death>>733139462
>>733139462This is so fucking wrong it's unbelievable. You probably think that the perks in Skyrim actually do shit and aren't just small percentage increases. I can't believe such retarded opinions exists in this world.
>>733142961I haven't played Skyrim in a while but I think you're the one that is wrong. Perks definitely did stuff other than give small % increases to sneaking and pickpocketing and that sort of thing.Like I recall that things decapitations, proper stealth backstabs, duel casting, higher tier spells, were all unlockable perks. Whether or not it's good to lock such things behind a perk is another thing but they definitely did things other than just make you a little bit better at x thing.
>>733138671Modded has the same issues
>>733143359You should check out the UESP wiki. That'll show you the truth in just how shitty and poorly designs the perks really are. That's how most of bethesda games are. It's all about the illusion of choice for this company.
>>733139462Indeed. Who could ever forget such classics as, adept destruction, fists of steel, or anything in the lockpicking perk tree.
>>733138535I can't replay OG Oblivion, nor finally do my first Morrowind playthrough because my OCD prevents me from ever leveling up without maximizing attribute growth every level. And that makes it no fun at all.Skyrim's system is OK overall but they fucked up the magic system completely. Who the fuck thought it'd be a good idea to make spell damage and level-bound limitations a static metric bound to individual pre-existing spells and some perks that cannot be increased any further by anything other than alchemy and only for a disgustingly short time? That there are no custom spells, nor any enchantments that affect it is completely and utterly crazy. How could anyone think that would be a good idea? If they want to nerf magic because Skyrim is a warrior nation or whatnot then they should have just made magic entirely unavailable in the first place or limit it to races or some kind of specialization. But what is the case? On lower levels you run out of mana way too quickly and on higher levels you essentially have infinite mana thanks to 100% magic school mana cost reduction enchantments, yet for example the destruction magic gameplay consists of stunlocking individual enemies for 20+ times to kill them. It's no fun. In the end you'll just fall back to being a stealth archer anyway.
>>733138535>Why was this game such a simplification compared to Morrowind and Oblivion?you will call me crazy but the reason is world of warcraft.World of warcraft was seen as the greatest computer game ever made (2005) in terms of generating money and investors saw the key to its success as targeting a wide audience as possible by being easier than standard MMOs of the time. After wow came out there was a huge push in gaming to dumb down games as much as possible in hopes that they would sell more. Some guys at Bethesda ate this up and decided that the old saying "perfection is when there is nothing else to take away" will be a part of their design philosophy.Yes, bethesda is really that dumb, they have a game series where the whole selling point is getting to "live another life" (their marketing term) and having choices in how to play and interact with the world and they decided taking as many choices out as possible was the right play. People will point to skyrims/oblivions success as proof they were right but their games were going to be popualr regardless of how dumbed down they were at the time due to circumstance, like oblivion being the only RPG worth a damn on the xbox360 at launch, and everyone wanting fantasy stuff around that time due to lord of the rings.
>>733139664it doesnt have to be a spreadsheet simulator. you can cap stats to 10 softcap like fallout games. or 20 like pic related, or have them be like DnD. The fact they removed them pretty much entirely while keeping % damage bonuses coming from every direction necessitating level scaling is just poor design. Level scaling in action RPGs is a band aid fix for a shitty stat system. the skyrim stat system is not only bad its is simplified to the point its not interesting for the player either.
>>733144325You seem a bit retarded with OCD and all. Magic shouldn't be that hard. Try branching out of Destruction magic. You know, if you want to have fun with magic.
>>733144693>Level scaling in action RPGs is a band aid fixIn this case it's for the open world which can be explored in nonlinear fashion.
>>733144906it doesnt matter. Conan exiles is open world arpg with no level scaling. so is elden ring.There are 0 exceptions, as far as arpg games go, level scaling is a band aid fix for poor stat design. If you have a better designed stat system with less power creep you dont need level scaling.
>>733140565>rpgcodexWhy should I give an ounce of fuck what these contrarians say? That website gives 4chan a run for its money when it comes to miserable, insufferable userbase.
>>733144998I recognize you anon, and now I have an existential crisis. I need to take a break from this place.
>>733138535all tes games are dogshit rpgsbethesda is only alive today thanks to jeremy soule and the designer dudes who worked on tes III-V, their work was so fucking strong it overcame emil's dogshit writing and their retarded engine three times in a row
>>733138535>complains about simplification> "pick pocket should have been merged with sneak. It's insane how much of a filler skill this is."Are you even listening to yourselfBut oh no not the poor Mysticism skill which was on its last legs back at Oblivion anyway
>ITT: people arguing against the superiority of the KISS principle
>>733138535The filthy kike tranny Jews at Bethesda are going to fuck up elder scrolls vi without a doubt
>>733140616>pretending swinging a bigger sword is any differentThere is a lot of difference in how you use different swords, anon.
