>>733533843
I have no clue, Martlet would be a terrible leader, but that's pre character arc. However I don't know if the arc she goes through in the justice route would make her a good leader, or the kind of leader that would be good for the underground.

She probably wouldn't treat thee following human very well.

>>733533843
If we're adhering to how she seems to act towards Clover and how her general mindset seems to change over the course of the genocide route, my honest guess is that she'd be a kind of middle ground between the neutral versions of Toriel and Undyne who can end up as the rulers of the underground.
I don't think she'd want to kill all humans on sight like Undyne, but she'd know better than to inherently assume good in all humans like Toriel.

>>733533843
I don't see how she could be a better ruler than Asgore, other than fully believing that all humans are evil and absorbing the souls to destroy the barrier right now

>>733533843
I don't think she would be too kind to any fallen humans after what Geno Clover did. Though maybe she could retain some care for others but maybe only if she heard that the human did absolutely nothing wrong to anyone.

>what if (literally who) did thing

>>733533843
zanzimartlet forgive me...

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>>733533843
I like Zartlet's design, if that were her default look then I think less people would have complained about UTY being "too furry"

>>733533843
I'm gonna be honest, I'm pretty sure Asgore could probably take Zenith Martlet in a fight pretty easily.
The only really comparable feat Zenith has is her blocking Clover from using their fight button during the first phase of her fight, and that didn't even last the duration of the fight. Asgore was able to *break* Frisk's mercy button, and that thing stayed broken until the fight was already over. If Asgore meant business, he could've just broken Frisk's fight button instead.
Zenith Martlet would be fucked, there's no way she'd be able to take Asgore down unless he was willing to step down by himself, and given that basically the entire events of the UTY genocide route are Martlet's fault due to her willingly letting Clover continue on their rampage and not doing her job as a royal guard, I don't think Asgore's gonna be willing to hand the fate of his people over to someone even less qualified than himself.

>>733534712
Zartlet's attacks are undodgable without a dash and she has way harder patterns than Asgore, I don't see how Asgore could be stronger than Zenith Martlet unless you believe that he is also stronger than Undying

>>733533843
Depends in how you characterize Zenith Martlet.
If she maintains her core values and morals, then despite what happened with Clover, she's not going to be some kill human fanatic.
She has the means to sense if a human is a threat, so if another human showed up in the underground, and they weren't dangerous, I don't think she'd want to kill them.
I think she'd be a fair ruler all things considered, she seems like the kind of person, where she wouldn't kill unless it was really necessary, and I don't think she'd be heartless to another human if they weren't a threat.

>>733534942
>Zartlet's attacks are undodgable without a dash and she has way harder patterns than Asgore
UTY also gives Asgore attacks that are undodgeable in his flawed-pacifist "fight", and that's in UTY officially, so we have to count it.
>I don't see how Asgore could be stronger than Zenith Martlet unless you believe that he is also stronger than Undying
He probably is, yes. UT tells (and shows us) that monsters that don't want to fight are considerably weakened, and given how Asgore talks and acts leading up to his fight with Frisk at the end of the game, I don't think it's a stretch to say he isn't super enthused about fighting them, which means we've never actually seen what Asgore is like when he actually gives a damn.

>>733534201
Well she could proactively deal with any humans that fall into the underground, instead of hiding in the castle and hoping they don't come to her like Asgore did.

>>733534942
>attacks are undodgable
Undodgeable attacks in UT don't really seem to be a special ability, so much as they just seem like a choice on whether or not a monster wants to use their magic in a way that's potentially underhanded or dishonorable.
It's like force-choking in Star Wars, it's not like using the force to crush someone's windpipe is some super special ability by itself, it's that using the force in such a way can cause someone to become detached from their humanity from just casually killing people so easily.
Given how UT directly makes a connection between violence and detachment, I think that's probably the most apt description of how undodgeable attacks work.

>>733535427
She didn't even proactively deal with a human slaughtering her people when it was her job.

>>733535707
Her character arc was overcoming her issues and facing her problem head on.

>>733534712
>Asgore could probably take Zenith Martlet in a fight pretty easily.
Yeah I doubt that. Unless you think Asgore could take on Undying than it's unlikely he could take on Zenith Martlet.
The difference between Martlet and Zenith, as well as Undyne and Undying is that massive.
For a monster Asgore is strong sure, but when determination transformations are in the equation, he's simply outclassed.
I'm not buying that Asgore is stronger than a monster like Undying or Zenith who are empowered by determination.
>>733535282
A Pacifist Clover at Lv 1 fighting an Asgore that's fully locked in on killing him, isn't really a good comparison of power and capability.
UTY is meant to be a tie in to UT, Clover had to die somehow, they just showed two different ways it happened.

>>733535628
>Undodgeable attacks in UT don't really seem to be a special ability, so much as they just seem like a choice on whether or not a monster wants to use their magic in a way that's potentially underhanded or dishonorable.
I highly doubt it, the only undodgeable attacks in UT come from Flowey when he caughts you off guard, Sans when you try to spare him and Asriel at the end.
I don't see why wouldn't every Sans attack be undodgeable, his entire thing is fighting dirty and breaking the rules.

>>733535628
It feels to me more like something that characters just inexplicably never do due to meta fuckery (no game is going to include undodgable attacks, because then you couldn't finish it) and only meta aware characters are able to recognize that they can do undodgable attacks.

>>733535819
That's what it *would* have been if the genocide route wasn't so poorly written.
What it *actually* is is her having a dumb ideological struggle as she watches everything her mentor warned her about happen before her very eyes while she lets you slaughter the better part of 100 people before she decides to finally confront you after it's already too late.
I already talked about this with some other anons, and the whole thing with some of the neutral variants of Sans and Alphys came up with the whole "I should have killed you when I had the chance" thing, but that doesn't really work for Martlet's arc in UTY because she actively confronts Clover multiple times throughout the run, and just chooses not to do anything to stop you for no real reason. I get that she didn't want to kill Clover because of her ideology, but the fact that the game decides to depict her actively choosing to let her own people die in favor of the person killing them is such shit writing.

>>733534942
>>733535282
This undodgeable discussion reminds me of spell cards in Touhou, which in-universe have to be designed to be beatable and failing to do so is considered illegal. It happens in that setting because the spell card system on the whole is more like a combat sport than real fighting (because if the characters tried killing each other for real the high power level characters would destroy the place they live in the clash), and the few times this gets broken in the series are notable. There's even one spinoff game named Impossible Spell Card, in which the character you play as violated the laws of the land and now a mob is hunting them with illegal spell cards that you have to cheat to survive.

I bring this up wondering if there might be a metaphysical force in Undertale that enforces the attacks being beatable. We already know that other aspects of the battle system exist diegetically, and that only a couple characters like Sans are crafty or powerful enough to circumvent them.

>>733536163
It still works even if she confronts him multiple times. She just didn't have the nerve to follow through any of those times, otherwise she would have done more. Zartlet was her finally working up the nerve to commit and do something she can't take back.

>>733535861
>For a monster Asgore is strong sure, but when determination transformations are in the equation, he's simply outclassed.
Like I said in another post, Asgore pretty actively doesn't want to fight Frisk by the end of UT, and we know from UT telling/showing us that monsters that don't want to fight are considerably debuffed.
Second, DT isn't everything. Undyne the undying probably had a whole lot more DT than Sans did, and by all means, he puts up a way better fight than she does.
>UTY is meant to be a tie in to UT, Clover had to die somehow, they just showed two different ways it happened.
It's still something UTY considers to be within his moveset, so if we're considering UTY specific things for this conversation, we inherently can't rule it out, it's something the game considers to be part of it's universe.

>>733536431
>he puts up a way better fight than she does.
If Asgore has KR and can dodge then I could believe him to be stronger than Undying

>>733536280
>I bring this up wondering if there might be a metaphysical force in Undertale that enforces the attacks being beatable
Its the game world itself. A game by its very nature must be possible to complete, and a game should be a fair challenge. Enemies spamming attacks you can't dodge is not fair and makes the game impossible to complete, so they don't do that. The Undertale world's physics are just game mechanics and genre conventions which the characters in universe react to.

Undodgable attacks are like faster than light travel, the physics of the world simply don't allow it under normal circumstances, and there's not really an in universe why beyond that.

>>733536372
It just doesn't work as well to me.
It's one thing to have a character like Sans say "this is what happens when guys like me take it easy", or Alphys say "I should have killed you when I had the chance", because in the context of the neutral runs where they say those things, neither one of them stood at all to do anything, they just sat back and let it all happen.
It's realistic, it makes sense, it's human. They didn't have the nerve to stand up at all, and people they cared about got hurt.
What Martlet does makes no sense. She confronts you first in Snowdin, then runs away. Then she confronts you again in the Dunes, after you've been killing dozens of people for a while by that point, and tries to just-talk you out of being a mass shooter with apparently no plan other than running away if you didn't listen.
Then she writes you a letter telling you to meet her on the rooftop, doesn't apparently coordinate this with any other royal guards, or even just Undyne for backup, and then gets killed because the DT syringe doesn't make her strong enough to actually beat you anymore.
And even ignoring the idea of her actually fighting you, we know for a fact that she's keeping an active eye on your progress through the underground, given that she knows to send the letter at the end of the route, and that she tracks you down to confront you in the Dunes, and despite this, she never tells any other royal guards to try and cut you off to block your progress through the underground, she doesn't tell them to evacuate populated areas in your path, nothing. She just lets you on your merry way without a care in the world for anyone in your path.
Either the devs intentionally wrote her as a psycho who values the life of a mass murderer over the lives of the people she swore to protect, or she's poorly written in the genocide route.

>>733536681
this, even sans using his starter attack or that long attack at the end still can be dodged
though sans knowledge of how the world works also allows him to never end his turn, either he knows what a turn actually is or not (likely there is a concept of what a "turn" is but it is visually different to monsters from what we see in game form)

>>733536642
>If Asgore has KR and can dodge then I could believe him to be stronger than Undying
Doubt the KR, but Undyne tells you that Asgore can dodge during the "date" with her in pacifist, so we know he can at least do that.

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Question, did Undertale Yellow create a new subset of Undertale fans on 4chan who create their own fanworks and have its own culture?

I find it pretty interesting how different websites have their own subset of Undertale communities.
Tumblr have their own fanworks and AUs they obsess over, and SoundCloud have also its own fanworks and AUs that they also obsess over. Both websites don't really overlap in fanworks despite both being Undertale based.
Although for SoundCloud's case, the autism stems from obsessing over non-UT characters and making songs and covers for them, as well as having their own inside jokes.
Basically, FNF before FNF was even a thing, which is funny since many popular FNF musicians were Undertale musicians too in the past.

And now, 4chan seems to have its own subset too as I've seen on /v/ and /vrpg/, although it's mostly been obsessing with Undertale Yellow and Deltarune, and game devving some fangames.

The subsets of Undertale communities across different websites is a fascinating rabbit hole that I don't see others talk about.

Thanks for coming to my Ted Talk.

>>733536912
She's emotional and stupid. That stuff is the result of her having poor judgement and letting her nerves get the better of her. She keeps making stupid plans and letting things happen because she's basing everything on wishful thinking and refusing to consider the alternative. And when she finally does come up with a plan and implements it, its full of holes because it was hastily thrown together without much thought.

She doesn't actively wasn't monsters to die, nor does she value Clover's life over that of her fellow monsters, she just can't stand to think about the possibility of all these horrible things, can't bear to accept that ultimate she's been given, so she doesn't. She just ignores it, denies it, looks for any alternative she can find, even if its farcical. You'd be more apt to call her a coward or just a willingly naive fool than a psycho.

>>733537271
>Question, did Undertale Yellow create a new subset of Undertale fans on 4chan who create their own fanworks and have its own culture?
Duh, yes.
What do you think all this is?
It's like how Vast Error has it's own community entirely divorced from the Homestuck community, it's just a thing that happens sometimes.

>>733537327
*can't bear to accept the ultimatum

>>733536934
>either he knows what a turn actually is or not (likely there is a concept of what a "turn" is but it is visually different to monsters from what we see in game form)
Mad Dummy also knows about the turns so this isn't some super secret meta knowledge that only monsters like Sans know about

>>733537271
>Question, did Undertale Yellow create a new subset of Undertale fans on 4chan who create their own fanworks and have its own culture?
Yes

>>733537507
it might be that most monsters simply never think to abuse it, or if they do some counter to it will magically appear. The game has to be possible to complete after all. It could be sort of like fate, stuff just happens for whatever reason fits best at the time, but the real reason is that fate compelled it to happen.

>>733537271
>question, did Undertale Yellow create a new subset of Undertale fans on 4chan who create their own fanworks and have its own culture?
Yes, the fangames community here is vastly different from that of Reddit and Tumblr, so far only DRY got known by the wider fandom, but only a handful of people seem to know of its origins.

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>>733537327
>You'd be more apt to call her a coward or just a willingly naive fool than a psycho.
That doesn't really work with her though because she *does* actively confront you, only to just run away and not have any followup.
Like I said before, even if she herself didn't want to confront you directly, she could've done something by using her authority as a royal guard to try and coordinate some kind of response to what you're doing, even if that ultimately just meant keep the guard updated on your position (which, again, we know she knew) so they could deal with the damage you were doing, but she didn't even do that.
Papyrus being a naive fool with a strong ideology worked because his character was actually consistent with itself. He doesn't seemingly know what you're doing until he decides to actually make a stand at the end of Snowdin, and even then, he's willing to die for what he believes in, unlike Martlet, who just goes "I think you can be better but I'm not gonna actually try and make you better so have fun killing a bunch of random people, bye".
It just doesn't work for her.

>>733536969
But that's Undyne, not Undying.
Stat wise Undying's stats are actually superior to Asgore's.
And someone a while back did a literal stat comparison with Zenith to other monsters, and her stats are above Asgore's to.
Not to mention Zenith Martlet interface screws by literally locking the fight button, which could only be worked around by Clover having the Soul blaster.
Last I checked, Asgore doesn't have a soul blaster. So unless Asgore has a means of getting around that, and from what we know about him, he doesn't, he wouldn't be able to beat Zenith Martlet either.

>>733537787
>That doesn't really work with her though because she *does* actively confront you, only to just run away and not have any followup.
She doesn't want to kill you or accept that you're evil and that you have to die, nor does she want to accept that you will kill all of her friends if she doesn't. She keeps committing to half measures because of that.

She's not as stupid as Papyrus. She on some level knows what's going on and what she has to do, but she denies it, pretends it isn't the case, and constantly hesitates and goes back on her attempts to do what must be done because she unsure and scared.

She's a lot like Asgore actually, only even worse, because unlike him she can't commit at all, instead of committing to a bad half measure. And only manages to commit and make a stand once its too late.

>>733537787
>she could've done something by using her authority as a royal guard to try and coordinate some kind of response to what you're doing
Nta, Martlet did actually do that, when she confronts Clover for the second time she informs him the Royal Guard was aware of his presence, what he's doing and were actively searching for him.
Martlet did inform the Royal Guard about Clover, that second confrontation was a desperate appeal for Clover to stop, so she wouldn't be forced into going Zenith to kill him.

>>733538001
Nta, but monsters likely have a magic button in addition to their fight button (Undertale beta stuff and Deltarune listing magic separately from FIGHT), and Asgore can also meddle with the UI.

>>733538127
Yeah, I get all that, and I think for a character like her who's supposed to have a strong sense of what's right, and has also been told her entire life by the people around her (including people she really trusted and looked up to, like Chujin) that human's have the capacity to be extremely dangerous, to the point that she was willing to steal what was basically classified government property specifically for if she ever came across a dangerous human, her being willing to let so many of her own people die just because she wants *one* human in particular to be better than they're actively showing themselves to be is bad writing.
The idea of her not knowing how to handle the situation perfectly is fine, that would make sense, but her just letting people die and not even calling in anyone else to handle things is beyond ridiculous with her being an actual royal guard.
Hell, comparing her characterization between routes, she makes a bigger stand against *Ceroba* than she does against a human who's actively slaughtering people en masse.
It's bad writing, it just makes no sense for who the game wants us to see her as.

>>733538370
>Nta, Martlet did actually do that, when she confronts Clover for the second time she informs him the Royal Guard was aware of his presence, what he's doing and were actively searching for him.
The guard already knew about Clover, Martlet directly mentions an evacuation by the time you get to fight her for the first time in Snowdin, she didn't inform anyone.

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>>733537271
Yes, like any 4chan sub-community of a fandom, it will be vastly different than other parts of the fandom or just be different as a whole from the broader community. There's more focus on fangame creation here, and maybe unrelated, but, the character taste here is unlike the general UTY community.

Martlet, for example, is more popular here than Ceroba. Chujin is also more popular than Starlo here, and it is to the point where an anon was arguing with me that this also applies to the broader UTY fandom (clearly not the case unless if you move too much into furry spaces)

>>733538605
>it is to the point where an anon was arguing with me that this also applies to the broader UTY fandom
You know, I actually forget if that was me or not.
Sounds like something I'd argue about.

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Sex with Clover.

>>733538397
Saying they likely have something is speculation, as far we are aware of, they don't have such a thing.
Asgore's meddling with the UI isn't really the same kind of meddling that Zenith Martlet was doing.
Asgore tries to force you to kill him, because he doesn't feel like he deserves mercy, but you can still spare him anyway even after what he did.
In Zenith Martlet's case, she blocks the FIGHT button outright. There is no way around that. Under normal circumstances, it's literally impossible to FIGHT her.
Clover had to use a unique soul power to work around what she did, a power that Asgore does not have.

>>733538605
At the very least Chujin has more porn than Starlo, proving that more people find him atractive

>>733538886
>proving that more people find him atractive
NTA, but that itself is kind of a given.
Chujin's an anthro fox guy, and Starlo's a.
Starlo's whatever the hell Starlo is.

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You'll never guess who I saw today

Hope this thread lasts a while, I'd like to be able to post my (now extremely late) Valentine's Ceroba thing once I finally finish it.

>>733537629
Okay then, I guess my question was a lot more obvious than I thought it would be.

>>733537396
>Vast Error
Never heard of it before, but I guess I know what to read once I'm done with Homestuck

>>733537756
Seeing that many people create their own fangames here does make me hopeful about the future when Deltarune is over, since that means there is still new UT/DR related content to look out for.
Before Deltarune, what fueled Undertale's community were the AUs and a handful of fangames. I guess the fandom is gonna go back to that state again when Deltarune is finished, but with multiple times more content from the source material.

>>733538605
The fact you still got people argue about UTY characters and their motives means that UTY devs stuck gold with the game's writing. Massive kudos for that.

>>733538550
>she didn't inform anyone.
Martlet is a Royal Guard stationed in Snowdin who helped with the evacuation. We also know from Pacifist that clocking in is something she has to do, and unlike Pacifist she doesn't accompany Clover on the boat.
I find it very hard to believe that during the time Martlet first encountered Clover in Snowdin, to when she met him again outside the Dunes, she didn't inform anyone.
Not to mention she was the last monster in the Royal Guard to encounter Clover and live to tell about it. How would the Royal Guard know what to look for if she didn't inform them?

>>733538963
Starlo is starfruit, I think, him being so skinny and being less relevant than Ceroba and Martlet also influnce that, he is also built like a twig and needs his hat to look cool, all these factores reduce his potential for porn

>>733538605
I'm not certain Martlet is more popular than Ceroba here, there's been a ton of lasting over the fox the last two years. What is concretely different here is that 4chan almost universally pairs Clover with Martlet in what-ifs where he gets adopted, while reddit and other places largely prefer making Ceroba the adopted mother, despite the horrible things she does as a mother in UTY

>>733538497
You're not getting what I'm saying. She's not "letting" anything happen, she's in complete denial that it *is* happening. She can't handle the truth that Clover, this random child, is a horrible demon that's systematically exterminating all of the monsters. She doesn't want to kill people, doesn't want people to be killed, and can't bring herself to recognize that those are her only two options.

I've known plenty of non-commital nervous people like this irl. It may have been poorly communicated, but the underlying personality is realistic and consistent.

>>733539218
>Before Deltarune, what fueled Undertale's community were the AUs and a handful of fangames.
Yes and those AUs and fangames sucked because most of them where skeleton wank, which is the main reason why I was never too interesed in Undertale's fandom until UTY released.
Speaking of fangames, you seem new here, did you play DRY and Naranja?

>>733539218
>Never heard of it before, but I guess I know what to read once I'm done with Homestuck
Eh, it's just okay. It's like an alternate interpretation of how Sburb works, with a new (and much larger) cast of trolls, but I honestly only read it for their version of Jack Noir, Scathing Sharper. The intermission they did was amazing though, easily the best part of the comic.
Honestly, just go read that and ignore the rest, the comic itself hasn't even updated in like over a year, which is weird because it apparently has a fairly sizeable team of people working on it.

>>733538886
Are you using E621? I was going to argue that this only applies to furries, and I was gonna see who had higher rated art (score?) between Chujin and Starlo only to see some of the worst shit ever of Chujin by accident when I sorted by score

Starlo has vastly more E rated fics at the very least than Chujin on AO3. The E rated fics of Chujin are mostly of just him being a rapist because of one faggot iirc. Seriously don't know why people are obsessed with making him into a molester

>>733538886
Not true on r34, a non-furry website. It's like saying Tenna isn't popular because he has barely any porn on E621

>>733539225
>How would the Royal Guard know what to look for if she didn't inform them?
Well evidently she didn't, given that there's never once an attempt by any royal guard other than Martlet to try and confront Clover. The guard doesn't need to know *who* exactly is causing problems in order to conduct an evacuation, they just need to know *something*, and evidently they knew that before Martlet did, given how she doesn't even recognize you as the one responsible until partway through her fight in Snowdin.
From there, she should've kept the guard updated on your position to better handle you once she found you in the Dunes, but she doesn't, because no one serious tries to stop you other than fuckin' Ceroba at that point.

>>733539246
>Starlo is starfruit
Eh, he doesn't actually resemble starfruit all that much.
I made a comparison to a paopu fruit from Kingdom Hearts once, but those don't exist, and the anon I was talking to started getting all weird and ominous when I mentioned KH, and I don't know why that happened still.
Anywho-

>>733539342
>she's in complete denial that it *is* happening.
She's clearly not. She literally directly talks about what you're doing in her first encounter, this isn't some situation where she's unable to mentally reconcile what's going on with what she thinks is going on, she literally directly talks about the reality of the situation from the get-go, she's just poorly written and is letting you slaughter a ton of people because "muh ideology".

>>733538497
Undertale Yellow had pretty bad writing overall, which the Shade of Justice mod actually does a pretty good job of addressing.
One of the biggest one's being Martlet's involvement, and a much deeper exploration of her interactions/relationship with Clover.

>>733539257
>despite the horrible things she does as a mother in UTY
*thing, she did one bad thing as a mother in extraordinary circumstances after apparently being perfectly fine for several years, while Martlet immediately got Clover into a high speed boat accident and sent them over a cliff within five minutes of meeting them.
I don't actually care for the idea of Clover being adopted all that much, but it's not super hard to see why most people outside of these threads tend to pair Clover with Ceroba as their parent.

>>733539139
Omg its him! I think...?

>>733539925
>she did one bad thing as a mother
Ceroba did multiple bad things as a mother. Screwing up her own daughter's life was just the biggest one.

>>733539873
>Undertale Yellow had pretty bad writing overall
I don't want to agree, but man...
I think what really gets me about this topic in particular is how most people will agree that something like Ceroba injecting Kanako was OOC and bad writing, and it should've been replaced with something else, but then people will argue to hell and back that Martlet just letting you kill 80 people before actually deciding to do anything is perfectly in character for her.
Like, I have witnessed some insane mental gymnastics around this fucking bird, the last /vrpg/ even had some people genuinely saying she would just freely share her breastmilk with people "if it could help someone".
I swear to god, there is something about this fuckin' bird that just makes people mental.

>>733540252
Hot take, cerobas retardation and the birds retardation are both real. They need me to tard wrangle them.

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>>733540087

>>733540241
>Ceroba did multiple bad things as a mother.
Yes, it was definitely all her fault that Chujin decided to go and kill himself with a secret science project behind her back, how horrible of Ceroba to be lied to by someone she loved and trusted dearly, what a skank.
Whatever bad things you're talking about, none of them were apparently bad enough to cause any problems before Chujin went and dropped all his shit on her, while Martlet nearly got Clover killed under the immense pressure of having to escort them from one location to another.
If you take them both out of the extraordinary circumstances of the world they exist in, nothing bad would've happened to Kanako (or Chujin, for that matter), because the serum project never would've happened, and that was the instigator for all their problems from then on.
Martlet, on the other hand, would probably leave Clover in a car without the handbrake on as it rolls into oncoming traffic.

>>733539925
Ceroba did one bad thing... that killed her child.
And then she allowed another child to commit suicide for her gain, after trying her hardest to kill that child. You can definitely point out Martlet's and Starlo's lack of intervention in that but in context Ceroba looks the worst of the bunch because she already has a dead kid on her hands and apparently learned nothing from that experience.

Martlet's incompetence is pretty different, and she isn't portrayed as a perfect mom at all here (DRY1 has her fighting a custody battle due to her faults) but she tries her hardest and doesn't experiment with her child's life. She's in over her head but not willfully negligent in caring for her child.

>>733539392
>Yes and those AUs and fangames sucked because most of them where skeleton wank,
Good point actually. But I was thinking of something like Underswap and Underfell since they changed the entire UT cast and gave them new character designs and personalities.
As for fangames, I was thinking of something like Undertale Red, since that seems to be doing its own thing, but that one came out a decade ago.
Now that I think about it, the fangame situation hasn't changed much over the years. It's not just skeleton wank, but genocide wank. It would be nice if you got a fangame about Sans or Papyrus doesn't take place in genocide route.

>Speaking of fangames, you seem new here, did you play DRY and Naranja?
I did play Naranja, but haven't played DRY yet.
I gotta replay UTY first since it's been a while. Should I replay the vanilla game, or do I go with something else? Shades of Justice seems to be popular.
Wasn't there like a list of fangames people keep?

>>733539413
Oh I see, thanks for the explanation. I'm sure it's gonna be updated by the time I finishing reading Homestuck.

>>733538851
I think that says more about Clover and (you) than it does about Asgore or Martlet. Clover is too weak to just say no to Martlet's blocking of his fight button, meanwhile (you) just tape the destroyed mercy button back together and use it like nothing happened.

>>733540434
What kind of video games would Racter play

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>>733540376
No...
The fox belongs to me!

>>733540504
Nta Ceroba's whole character is that she literally keeps digging herself into a hole.
She makes one bad decision, then she makes another one in a repeated cycle.
She had to be forced into submission for the cycle to end, otherwise she would have kept going.

>>733540754
>Clover is too weak
A level 19 Clover is anything but weak, and he was absolutely committed.
The fact Martlet was capable of even pulling that of, goes to show how powerful she was as Zenith.

>>733540764
Stick and hoop, tarot, dice

>>733539423
Well, Ceroba was pretty young when she fell in the Wife Catcher 3000

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>>733540508
>Ceroba did one bad thing... that killed her child.
Yes, in extraordinary circumstances that would never have happened otherwise.
>And then she allowed another child to commit suicide for her gain
Which Martlet also did. Same kid too. She was there and everything.
>but she tries her hardest and doesn't experiment with her child's life.
Which I imagine is also true of Ceroba in DRY, unless that game's story is even more contrived and forced than I'd already heard.
>She's in over her head but not willfully negligent in caring for her child.
She's still massively accident prone in a way more realistically lethal way than Ceroba is.
It's like that old discussion about UTY Ceroba vs DR Toriel after the new chapters came out. DR showed us that Toriel's faults are inherent to her character, that even without her whole tragic backstory, she's still a bad caretaker and generally spiteful person towards Asgore. She may not be *consciously* neglectful, but she's apparently still the kind of person who'll let their kid have giant blood stains on their floor and never question it or do anything about it.
Now, I'm not suggesting Martlet would be *anywhere* near that bad, but her track record in UTY shows us that she's hugely accident prone, irresponsible, bad at holding down a job, and not even necessarily good at taking care of herself.
Like in my initial argument about this last time, it's the Obi-Wan vs Qui-Gon thing.
They both cared, and they both did want what was best for Anakin, but Obi-Wan was really more of a brother figure than the father figure Anakin needed most.
That's Martlet. She is, realistically, a sister figure, not a mother.

>>733540678
>Now that I think about it, the fangame situation hasn't changed much over the years
It has changed a lot thanks to UTY, now we have fangames that focus on the other human souls and have casts full of original characters, but none of them have released yet.

>I gotta replay UTY first since it's been a while. Should I replay the vanilla game, or do I go with something else? Shades of Justice seems to be popular.
I haven't played Shades of Justice yet, but it seems to add a lot of side content and it also changes some of the weakest parts of the game's writing, you should probably give it a go if you want an excuse to replay Yellow.

>Wasn't there like a list of fangames people keep?
There was a list with 100+ fangames or something like that, it hasn't been updated in a while and most of the games there are already dead, as for a list of fangames being developed here, we have the fangames archive.
https://rentry.org/mtt-fangames#mtt-brand-fangame-archive
But so far only DRY and Naranja got playable content, the others are basic prototypes. Outside of 4chan fangames there is TS!Underswap arguably the highest quality fangame so far, despite being based on a swap AU it has a lot of original content and it respects the personalities of the swapped characters, its pretty high quality, then there is UT Wildfire, still in development and its another take on the orange soul, from what I've seen, it looks like the highest quality prequel fangame.

>>733539246
>him being so skinny
That's a benefit for porn these days. Twinks are the big thing now.

>>733540847
You will find out in time then how dumb our respective wives are then. Very loving, and extremely dumb.

>>733539423
>Starlo has vastly more E rated fics at the very least than Chujin on AO3.
NTA, but I've seen some pretty fucked up NSFW fics of Starlo, way more than I've seen of Chujin.
Never actually read most of them, largely because my stomach started churning after I read one out of curiosity, but you get the picture.

>>733541302
DRY roba is actually a regular housewife because chujin didn't kill himself and was able to tardwrangle her

>>733540764
>>733541121
What boards would Racter and the other fangame characters use?

>>733539218
What do you know of the fangames in development here?

>>733541381
That's only a benefit if the character has other atractive features, which starlo doesn't, he looks like a balding nerd without his hat

>>733541406
Yeah, that's what I mean.
No integrity soul, no serum, no dead husband, no dead Kanako.
It was circumstance that put Ceroba where she was, not something inherent to who she is.

>>733539794
You've clearly never met any people like this, because they will recognize the problem, exactly describe it, announce that this is the last straw and they are going to end it, then go back to saying nothing's wrong within a couple hours.

>>733541395
Easy, I just won't leave Ceroba in charge of any "weight of the world" conspiracies.

Sorry about stabbing you with a lightsaber, didn't expect you to give her up that easy.

>>733541494
Yeah, that kinda doesn't work when she's basically the fantasy equivalent of a police officer.
This is like if that one police officer that took out a mass shooter with just a few shots from his rifle instead went up to the guy and said "alright, but you owe me one" and then fucked off to let him keep going.
Doesn't really work as well, you know?

>>733541302
Martlet is the Qui-Gon in this case. She's the mother that Clover needs.
In this scenario Ceroba is the Obi-Wan.

>>733541428
Racter would post in /lit/ and/hist/ because he likes reading (and has a first hand account of a lot of important histor), and /int/ because he's from the monster kingdom and wants to be in a board with the other monsters.

Val posts on /a/ and /fit/

>>733541594
You kidding anon? Its a mercy. The roba stupidity field and the Martlet stupidity field nearly had me convinced to inject random souls into my eyes

>>733541742
No the fuck she is not, Martlet watches Clover murder a whole bunch of people and does fuck all about it, she is the perfect Obi-Wan.

>>733541801
Well, more fox paws for me then.

I really need to draw her paws again sometime, fuck.

>>733541406
>>733541492
Just like how UT Toriel and DT Toriel aren't the same.
DTY Ceroba and UTY Ceroba aren't the same.
While DTY Ceroba may not have done anything, UTY Ceroba did do all of this horrible things.
She's still guilty of all the stuff that she did, and she's not the same as her DTY counterpart.
UTY Ceroba because of all that's happened doesn't really have the right to go around trying to claim another kid.
Especially one she manipulated and tried to kill with her own hands.

>>733541762
Cole would post on /k/
>>733541428
Val would also post /xs/ since he is a fan of wrestling going by some of his ACTs.

>>733542054
We're talking about these character's flaws and how inherent they are to their actual characters, comparing versions of them between universes is absolutely relevant because it grants context into why they are the way they are.
And again, I don't actually care for either of them as Clover's parents, I'm just saying that based on their own track records, Ceroba's way less likely to actually get Clover hurt or killed in normal circumstances because everything that happened with her was specifically because of *extra*ordinary circumstances, whereas everything Martlet did wrong could still happen in a normal context.

Also, why are you saying "DT" and "DTY"? Do you write it out as Del Tarune? What the hell man?

>>733541360
>It has changed a lot thanks to UTY, now we have fangames that focus on the other human souls and have casts full of original characters, but none of them have released yet.
That's great to hear, but shame about not getting released part.

>but it seems to add a lot of side content and it also changes some of the weakest parts of the game's writing, you should probably give it a go if you want an excuse to replay Yellow
Guess gonna play both the vanilla and Shades of Justice then, they do make changes.

>https://rentry.org/mtt-fangames#mtt-brand-fangame-archive
Thanks for the link, gonna bookmark it

>TS!Underswap
Oh I'm very familiar with that. I do remember when they made their own version of Sans before they switched with Crossbones which I do miss it desu
Still haven't got around playing it yet

>UT Wildfire
Thanks for remiding me about that. Gonna check it and see when I can get around playing it.

>>733541440
Honestly not much.
I just know /vrpg/ has its own general for fangames.

>>733540376
No anon, don't do that to yourself, you don't need to waste all your time and energy on two barely functional sexy retards.

I'll do it myself.

>>733541861
For the sake of argument I'm using Pacifist.
Ceroba literally tricks Clover into a false sense of security fully intending to stab him in the back, and kill him so she can use his soul for her own goals. Had to be beaten into submission for her to give up. And was perfectly fine with dying, because she couldn't live with her fuck ups.
Whereas Martlet sides with Clover through thick and thin, genuinely wants what's best for him no strings attached, and already has an established relationship with Clover.
You're really going to argue that Martlet isn't the Qui-Gon in this scenario? She absolutely is.
Ceroba isn't the one, I'm sorry.

>>733542269
DT stands for Deltarune, DTY stands for Deltarune Yellow. This is common knowledge here.

>>733540897
>She had to be forced into submission for the cycle to end, otherwise she would have kept going
She should have married Asgore, they'd be perfect for each other.

>>733541068
He's weak compared to (you). It takes Clover abandoning his humanity and maxxing out his LV to do what (you) could do easily at LV 1.

>>733542125
>Cole would post on /k/
Would Kris post on /k/? He really likes knives.

>>733542269
Could be Deltatraveler and Deltatraveler Yellow (not an actual fangame but a concept by the Deltatraveler author, with all the faults you'd expect and also momroba)

>>733542503
>You're really going to argue that Martlet isn't the Qui-Gon in this scenario? She absolutely is.
>Ceroba isn't the one, I'm sorry.
Way to cherrypick pal, good job.
We're not talking about just pacifist, we're talking about all aspects of their characters, you can't just pick and choose what does an doesn't matter and pretend things only exist in a vacuum.
And even then, you're still wrong. Everything Ceroba did wrong to Clover was intentional as part of the whole conspiratorial science project her dead husband handed to her, so we know she isn't just doing all that because she genuinely wants to.
Again, the crux of all this is that outside of the extraordinary circumstances present in the UT universe, Ceroba would be a way better parent than Martlet would be because the only things she did that were wrong were because of the extraordinary circumstances she existed in, while Martlet's flaws are tied to who she is as a character.
You can have Ceroba without the serum project and still have Ceroba, but Martlet without her ridiculous clumsiness and irresponsibility isn't Martlet.

>>733541671
There are incompetent cops out there. This isn't even a new archetype. Martlet is basically monster Barney Fife.

>>733542731
I think Kris would mainly post on /x/ but maybe occassionally /k/

>>733542592
You are the only person I've seen use "DT" and "DTY", everyone else here just says "DR" or "DRY".
You know, like Delta-Rune, not Del-Tarune.
Ya freak.

>>733542592
Most people here use DR, hence why its called DRY and not DTY

>>733542820
isn't it implied he likes cars too?
if so, also /o/

>>733541487
Those are attractive features to some

>>733542808
Yes, incompetent cops exist, but for the story UTY is trying to tell with it's genocide route, Martlet acting the way she does is just ridiculous, it doesn't fit the story or her character.

>>733542592
What >>733542869 said, but I'll also add that DT also already stands for Determination (as in the True Lab's "DT" Extraction Machine).

>>733542125
Does Val watch WWE or does he stick to Mexican wrestling?

>>733542953
I think it could work if they executed it better. A few dialogue changes is all it would take.

>>733543046
Hed probably watch Japanese pro wrestling as well since its got that energy

>>733543018
Yeah, I'm not saying "DT" isn't a valid acronym for *anything*, I'm just saying using it for "Deltarune" is weird because of where that implies the emphasis is in the word.
Also, that is literally a post I replied to, that the post I replied to that you replied to was a later reply of.

>>733542592
You should really say DRY, because otherwise people are gonna think you're talking about Deltaraveler Yellow.

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>>733540764
>>733541121
Forcing Racter to play the knife game.

>>733543124
I think it'd take a bit more than that, but my point is that as it stands, like a lot of other parts of the game people have no issues whatsoever calling poorly written, Martlet just standing by and letting you kill people without lifting a finger to stop you is bad writing for her character and for the story the game is trying to tell with the pacifist route.

>>733543250
Dess...

>>733540764
"Fist the monster".
He's the monster.

who in deltatraveler yellow would talk about their most cathartic kill

>>733542414
>Honestly not much.
Want a QRD?

>>733543046
>>733543140
Yeah, I can see Val watching all kinds of pro wrestling with the intention of learning new flashy moves.

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>>733543307
>dess
>racter
>dess-ter
>desster

IM GOING FUCKING INSANE

>>733543343
Kanako after she gets ragebaited too hard

>>733543018
See, think about it like this.
We call Undertale "UT", right? That's because it's "Under" "Tale". "U" and "T", "UT".
Calling Deltarune "DT" would be the equivalent of calling Undertale "UE" for "Und" "Ertale".
It's stupid, it sounds stupid, and anyone who says it should be drawn and quartered.

>>733537271
You're ignoring the elephant in the room of how inside 4chan itself we are a somewhat separate community from the usual /v/ posters, alongside /utg/ doing its own profoundly retarded thing.

I say "somewhat" because I suspect most in /vrpg/ also do follow the canon games's discussion on /v/ but not the other way around.

>>733543250
(you)...

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>>733542269
>>733542592
every time someone uses DT to refer to deltarune instead of DR I think of deltatraveler (pic related never ever)

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>>733543140
Would he be a fan of Kenny Omega?

>>733541302
Sorry but I just don't see it.
While I get that if nothing happened then Ceroba may not have been that bad. She still had tunnel vision though, that's a flaw she's not escaping from.
The Ceroba now is the one that's done a lot of bad. Like trying to kill a child is a breach of trust that your just not coming back from. That's sticking with her for life.
If we're being logical, it doesn't matter how "capable" Ceroba may potentially be, I wouldn't leave Clover alone with her period after that, and no sensible person would either.
I get Martlet may have messed up several times, but in her case she know she's not going to pull what Ceroba did, and it was already made clear she prepared to step up, and Clover already has a relationship with her.
Honestly this doesn't really seem like a Obi-Wan vs Qui-Gon situation to me, it feels more like a "the one who seemingly appears to have more, may not the necessary be the right choice."

>>733543440
I don't get this one

>>733543580
I can see it. Hed take all the theatrics seriously

>>733543564
>(pic related never ever)
probably for the best. Imagine the damage he would do.

>>733543564
I've seen people use DTY and DRY and got what they meant based on what they said.
I've never gotten confused. They both appear to be correct, at least to me.

>>733543703
There is a timeline where DRY1 anon never released his project and where Deltatraveler Yellow did come out.

>>733543705
nta, but it confuses me every time I see it, since there have been multiple DTYs (Deltatraveler Yellows) in development over the years, and its a common hypothetical discussed here.

>>733543316
drawanon...

>>733543582
>She still had tunnel vision though, that's a flaw she's not escaping from.
She escaped from it pretty damn well before the serum project came up, so I think that's a pretty minor issue all things considered.
>Like trying to kill a child is a breach of trust that your just not coming back from. That's sticking with her for life.
People trying to kill them isn't apparently a big deal for Clover. They forgive Starlo, and Dalv, and Ceroba too depending on what ending you go for.
This is one of those things that would be a big deal in the real world, but isn't as much of a problem in the less grounded world of UT, like how Gohan's chill with Piccolo despite Piccolo hitting him with a bunch of ki blasts and chucking him in a pit.
And killing his dad.
>Clover already has a relationship with her.
That relationship being the (at most) 10 minutes they traveled together in total throughout the entire underground.
Again, not arguing from the perspective of actually wanting Ceroba to be Clover's parent, I'm saying that in terms of actual experience and capability, she's far and away the better option.

>>733543703
if red and yellow already caused the cocoapowder brainrot, I can't imagine what DTY would have done

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>>733543843

>>733543372
Sure, go ahead.

>>733543495
>You're ignoring the elephant in the room of how inside 4chan itself we are a somewhat separate community from the usual /v/ posters
I mean that's something pretty common among other boards that allow generals. These threads are kinda like that. I'm sure games that gets reoccurring threads here have a similar situation

>alongside /utg/ doing its own profoundly retarded thing.
We don't talk about /vg/

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>>733543970
Well, it could have a silver lining

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>>733544120
Absolutely not.

>>733543843
Sidenote, I only drew the one mildly messed up thing happening to Chujin like once or twice, that doesn't mean that's *all* I'm about, come now.

>>733544356
If you want to change that reputation, then you should draw something wholesome with one of the fangame guys.

>>733544032
>Sure, go ahead.
Ok so there's 6 games that I know are in active development right now

>Naranja
You know this one. DBZ obsessed kid jumps into the underground to fight strong monsters, lots of silly ms paint goobers and funny jokes, mexican themes

>Deltarune Yellow
Fangame that is to UTY what Deltarune is to Undertale. Shows a parallel story to UTY primarily focused on Kanako and Clover. Has 1.5 chapters out, with chapter 2 well on the way. The dev of this is also working on his own original game which was developed from concepts originally inteded for DRY, including a human boy and his fox gf

>Deltarune Yellow 2
Started by another anon after DRY1 went on hold. Uses some assets from it, but is otherwise completely distinct and original from DRY1. No playable demo at this time

>Wildfire
Undertale fangame about the orange soul. Is closer tonally to Undertale, but different stylistically. Has its own unique combat system. Main character has a bunny GF and is an adult.

>SURVEY_2
Deltarune fangame made in the style of SURVEY_PROGRAM. Based on all the disproven schizos theories made about Deltarune. No demo at this time.

>Oldentale
Game set during the human monster war. Stars Racter, a monster who somehow came to possess a human soul. Focuses on the parts of history that were lost to time. No demo at this time.

>>733544162
Come on anon,is it any worse than Chasriel?

>>733544356
You keep posting about sexually abusing male fangame characters. If you want people to stop seeing you as the CBT guy, stop posting about how much you love CBT.

>>733543564
Speaking of Deltatraveler (and the earlier discourse on the 4chan UT/DR community), I'm convinced that its dev has lurked in these threads to see what we're saying about it, and has actually made some adjustments from us.
>Every time I've gone into the youtube comments for any video about this fangame (OST uploads, lets plays/livestreams, etc.) they are always a massive echo chamber constantly glazing the hell out of it.
>No real critique, just praising it for reasons that ultimately boil down to, genuinely (God help me), "hype moments and aura".
>But here on /v/, it's been lambasted for YEARS since it released, especially around the Earthbound section's release.
>Mind you, our outlook on UTY, TS!Underswap, all the Spamton fangames, and so on have generally been positive (it's why this exact thread is up to begin with, hell); but this particular fangame is the only one that's generally disliked.
>The characterization is shit, the writing is all over the place, Ralsei reduced to a joke, one of the chapters being ToonTown, etc.
>And of course, how could we all forget Fell!Sans's "most cathartic kill"? Until they completely rewrote him and changed that line.
>And that's why I believe they lurk here.
>Despite all the YT comments seeing no wrong (and them even calling this change worse), they still changed it, and the only place that bashed it was US.
>We're probably also the reason they decided to just completely rewrite the GG!Fell section entirely.
>Maybe even having the ToonTown section getting cut entirely as well.
Overall, this makes me think the 4chan community of this fandom is one of the only parts worth giving a shit about. We're the only ones willing to give face-value critique to shit like this without being mindless fanboy yes-men, but Deltatraveler is probably the one instance where our influence makes a goddamn difference.

>>733544532
I drew Val punching Shu like that one bit of DBZ with Mr.Satan as a request that some people seemed to like, but noooo, you subject Chujin to CBT once or twice and *suddenly* you've gone too far!

Frankly, it's unbelievable what I put up with.

>>>/vrpg/3932924
>Maybe you can elaborate in the /v/ thread,
alright, here goes a rant

The Titan's design is the most basic thing you could come up if prompted "make an angelic JRPG final boss", in the franchise known for its inventive character design. Like that other anon said, staying like the bald man the whole way would be better.

It was an asspull for a chapter that lacked a major boss the whole way through the plot. I'd say if he was summoned right at the start of the third sanctuary, at least the stakes would make more sense.

Speaking of stakes, it was hyped as this world ending treat, yet it was dealt with in a matter of minutes. And right in the middle of the game, nowhere near the end where you'd expect this sort of thing to show up.

The story setup itself feels way too basic for a franchise known for playing and making fun of RPG tropes. A "fear of the dark" personification that gets defeated by the power of friendship? Played all straight?

And to end it all, the fucker has less bullet patterns than King.

>>733544662
"Abusing" is a strong word.

>>733544619
No, but it's not much better either.

>>733544710
well, that drawing of Val wasn't uploaded to e6 so most people that loook up your name don't see it.

>>733544910
Ah, fair.
I drew that image of Ceroba and an anon cuddling though, people liked that one and it was mostly wholesome, nudity not withstanding.

>>733544619
Chasriel is a good ship though

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>>733544728
>Like that other anon said
that was me

>staying like the bald man the whole way would be better
I was really hoping it would have been a low res monochrome photograph of a bald man. Looking sort of like the bass player from Ningen Isu. Would've been more interesting that Mr Soulless generic RPG boss

I generally agree with everything you say here.

Lame ass boss all around, and this was right after Toby did something actually cool with Tenna and then the Knight being a forced loss that you can actually win.

On top of all that, the gameplay of the boss was just lame. I remember cheating to get through it because I found it so unfun.

>>733545083
That's my point. Adoptive Kanaclover is still pretty good.
>>733544835
Chasriel is good though

>>733544542
>Naranja
>mexican themes
This will come as a surprise for some of you, but I'm not Mexican.

>>733544704
Most of those cathartic edits didn't come from here, so I think there was a sizable group outside of here criticizing him too

>>733545157
I forgot to mention there how, while Omega Flowey was an interesting take on a "Giygas style" boss fight, mostly because of the ways it was unique, the Titan felt like a lazy rip off of that while not doing anything better OR interesting with the concept.

>>733545226
>Chasriel is good though
What is with you people and shipping children?

>>733544710
That pic was pretty funny

>>733544542
Thanks for rundown, anon.
I was wondering about the other fangames.
So far, it seems only 2 out of 6 has a playable demo.

>The dev of this is also working on his own original game which was developed from concepts originally inteded for DRY, including a human boy and his fox gf
That's a great idea actually, since DRY may as well be an original work since the game is divorced from being an UT/DR fangame since it uses original characters.
I also thought of doing something similar, using some ideas for fanworks for original works instead.
Now that I think about it, isn't that what happened with Snoot game and I Wani? Both made by the same dev

>>733545227
Huh.
Iberian?

>>733545227
I'm an American, anon. All non-Spaniard Spanish speakers are Mexicans in my eyes.

>>733545226
Ah, fair enough. Nice to see someone with good taste here.

>>733545358
The Titan reminded me more of a Final Fantasy boss with all of its angel motifs

>>733545392
Ah, see!
Totally makes up for what I did to Chujin, and plan on doing again to multiple other people at some undetermined point in the future.

>>733545410
>isn't that what happened with Snoot game and I Wani?
Yes

>I also thought of doing something similar, using some ideas for fanworks for original works instead.
Care to elaborate?

>>733545451
No, I am from Latin America, just not Mexican.
>>733545452
>All non-Spaniard Spanish speakers are Mexicans in my eyes.
Well, at least you know the difference between Spaniards and Mexicans.

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>>733545452

>>733545391
Childhood friends to lovers is a cute dynamic and Toby shipped the hell out of them in the game. Asriel and Chara would've ended up fucking if they hadn't died so young.

>>733545502
I see, but I'm mostly talking about the whole fetus/abortion thing going on with it.

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>>733545559
Ah, so you're still spanish at the end of the day.

>>733545391
Kanaclover is the most popular ship in these threads. People like childhood friends bro

>>733545596
>Childhood friends to lovers is a cute dynamic
Chara is an evil magic freak who can melt their face on command and goaded Asriel into a plan that directly involved their death.

>>733545489
I also like Kriselle for the same reason.

>>733545605
That's more a thing with the spawn than with the Titan itself.

>>733545648
>People like childhood friends bro
In that sense KanaClover is even weirder, given that the two characters have literally never met or interacted with each other outside of a fangame of a fangame that, by the creator's own admission, basically just makes new characters wearing Clover and Kanako's faces for the sake of shipping them for no reason.

>>733545674
>Chara is an evil magic freak who can melt their face on command
And Asriel became an evil magic freak who can melt his face on command because she left such an impact on him

>and goaded Asriel into a plan that directly involved their death.
And he was so hopelessly smitten by her that he went along with it, and then adopted her worldview after he was resurrected. And then tried to end the world just to get her back.

>>733545864
Yeah, that's not great.
Flowey's stuck as a permanent mental 10 year old, poor bastard got Caliborn'd over this shit.

>>733545691
Kriselle is good but I still prefer Chasriel so far. Maybe if Kriselle has some good moments in future chapters it will surpass it for me

>>733545864
Peak angst shipkino. Toby really strikes gold when he isn't writing romance

>>733545559
>the guy who's making a game featuring an MC who loves Dragon Ball a bit too much is South American
I'm sorry but this is just too funny.
It just reinforces the stereotype that Dragon Ball is very popular among Spanish speaking people.

>>733545756
>given that the two characters have literally never met or interacted with each other
When has that ever stopped shippers?

>for no reason.
They're narratively similar characters. Both of them are children who died tragically trying to be heroes. Ceroba was heavily involved in both of their deaths. Ceroba was going to use Clover's soul on Kanako (for what purpose is another can of worms), and they both spent a lot of time in Alphys's basement being experimented on. Hell, they could have met there if Alphys happened to leave Clover's jar out and Kanako entered the room.

Clover is also the player character and Kanako is around his age, so of course the players are going to want to date the fox girl vicariously through their player character. Its why Kris and Frisk are shipped with basically everyone.

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fangames are cringe

>>733545917
That's what makes it romantic. Its a tragic romance. Chara is a horrible person, but Asriel refuses to see it and actively helps her because he loves her that much. You can't love someone more than that (unless you're misses Ceroba "murder a dozen children for my husband" Ketsukane.) Even him picking up her habits is cute, and funny since they're fucked up habits. He even stole her scary face thing.

>>733545928
I like Kriselle because of its subtlety and its connection to the weird route.

>>733546102
>and they both spent a lot of time in Alphys's basement being experimented on.
A lot of this is tenuous, but this one is pretty clearly wrong. We know Alphys extracted some DT from the human souls for the purposes of her experiments, but she didn't really experiment *on* the souls, she just used them to gather some resources for the actual experiments, that's not the same thing as them being the actual subject of her experiments.
>so of course the players are going to want to date the fox girl vicariously through their player character.
That is an extremely concerning thing to say when the fox girl in question is a child.

>>733546453
I like the marriage themes in Weird Route, yeah. Hyped for festival date.

>>733546083
You are not the first to point that out, DBZ is extremely popular in my country, when Akira Toriyama passed away there was a massive fan gathering that even made it to the news.

>>733546363
>sansposter calling anything cringe
need i remind you that the stupid fucking joke skeleton dominated fan content for two years?

>>733546593
Anon, he is rage baiting, don't pay him atention.

>>733546458
> that's not the same thing as them being the actual subject of her experiments.
My point is that they both spent a lot of time in Alphys's mengele basement getting horrible things done to them. Kanako was getting melted, Clover was having parts of his soul violently removed by the satanic deer skull machine. They have a lot to bond over. Especially if Alphys injects some of Clover into Kanako, which is a real possibility.

>That is an extremely concerning thing to say when the fox girl in question is a child
The idea is that you are also a child, and grow up alongside her, and your feelings for each other grow as you age. Childhood friends to lovers.

>>733545157
>>733544728
was really hoping that darkner than dark world would happen instead

>>733546593
>two years?
This feels like something of an understatement if I'm being honest.

>>733546510
I have a thing for arranged marriages that turn into genuine relationships. Chasriel is basically that for the sake of the monster race, and it feels like that's what Carol wanted Kris and Noelle to be for the sake of her family.

>>733546713
This too. NEO dark worlds are way cooler than tiitans, and have a lot more narrative and thematic potential than some big scary doomsday monster. That said, you could still have big scary bald man in the neo dark world.

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>>733543992
CHANGE DA WORL, MY FINAL MESSAGE

>>733546697
>The idea is that you are also a child, and grow up alongside her, and your feelings for each other grow as you age. Childhood friends to lovers.
Yeah, no, see, I get that-
But that's a pretty fuckin' weird thing to want to "live vicariously" through Clover for, for a character who is a child. A pretty young child at that.
That's weird.
That's a weird thing to be fixated on.
Like, I'm sorry man, that's just fucking weird.
These characters already don't have a whole lot going on in terms of writing in general which makes pairing them together forced as hell, and now you're telling me that it's *actually* in service of living out some romantic fantasy directed at a character who we have only ever seen as a very young child?
Did you think about how that looked as you typed it out?

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>>733546949
anon that's literally every UT and DR ship

>>733546743
Massive understatement actually, skeleton wank took root one year after the release of Undertale and kept growing until the release of UTY, so its closer to 7 years.

>>733546949
Its not that weird. Having a childhood friend that you grew up with become your wife is just a nice thing to have happen to you. Its perfectly reasonable to fantasize about a world where that happened.

Plenty of people fantasize about this all the time, that's why its such a common trope in anime and manga, and why its so common in video games.

>>733546590
>when Akira Toriyama passed away there was a massive fan gathering that even made it to the news.
Oh yeah, i do remember when that happened.

But still, keep up the good work. Don't let the shitposting get through you

>>733547020
That doesn't make it good, that just makes it what it is.
Like, it's one thing for some of us to be drawing or writing things with anons that let us imagine™ what'd be like to be in a relationship with whatever adult characters, but the children?
Fuckin' hell man, how the fuck am I supposed to react to that?
That's fucked up, that's all there is to it, it's just fucked up.

>>733546713
I feel that theory ended up turning true from a certain point of view.

The MANTLE game was playing with the idea of going further down the level of "fiction within fiction", just not the way people thought.

>>733547115
>Don't let the shitposting get through you
Actually, I love shitposting, and I thought this interaction was funny.

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>>733547112
No, the childhood friend thing isn't the issue here, the issue is that that anon, or you, or whoever the fuck made that post earlier specifically said it's so players can live out getting to date Kanako, who is a child.
That's fucking weird, that is a weird thing to go through all this effort over, that's just fucking weird.

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GOODB YE

>>733547345
What if Racter saw a human eating a peep?

>>733547273
You just don't get it. You become friends with her as an innocent child, then as you grow both older things become romantic.

You're the one trying to make this a pedo thing.

>>733547452
I imagine he would be unnerved, but wouldn't say anything. What if you saw a monster eating (you) shaped candy?

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>>733547142
>>733547273
That is just every media involving romance with the protagonist/player character since time immemorial
Sorry anon you're just too weak to survive here
I have to take you out back

>>733547487
>You're the one trying to make this a pedo thing.
That guy literally said it's about the player living out the fantasy of dating a child character, and I'm the weird one?
Fucking hell you people are out of it.

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>>733547564
Yeah, did he just miss all the Noelle rape posting that was happening a few months ago?

>>733547554
Specifically me?
Specifically me-shaped candy?
That sounds like a threat.

>>733546776
It's fun when that trope isn't le evil forced marriage but actually ends up producing a lovely couple with a good family and kids. I could see both Chasriel and Kriselle ending like that.

>>733547651
First, Noelle is way older than Kanako is in UTY, and second, that's also pretty weird.
Third, I don't go to DR threads, and the UTY and related threads generally don't have as much rape-posting.

>>733547646
You're intentionally parsing the words a certain way to make it sound worse than it is. This is childhood friends to lovers, not lolicon, which is its own thing.

>>733547554
Forcing Racter to bake cookies that look like my old body and eat them

>>733545557
>Care to elaborate?
Basically I had an idea for my own take of an existing AU, but since I don't plan making something like a full fledged comic or a game for the said AU, I may as well save those ideas for an original work
I know this sounds very vague, since I myself don't know what kind of original work I want to make. Just that I do have some ideas I may work with

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>>733547770
Most kanaclover in these threads is based on the DRY versions which are teens, so you're just making a mountain out of a molehill

>>733547749
In both cases it seems like the pairs do actually love each other, but are also genuinely terrible for each other. Like the concept of arranged marriages isn't at fault here, but instead these ones were just poorly arranged.

>>733547694
Imagine if there was a popular brand of candy that just so happened to bear an uncanny resemblance to you and you saw someone eating it right in front of you

>>733547850
>>733547785
The post I replied to and screenshotted earlier specifically referred to Kanako and Clover from UTY, not Kanako and Cole from DRY.
The former are children who have never met, and the latter are basically entirely different characters, but are indeed teens, which is better.

>>733547817
You think he has any kind of trauma or complex over seeing that human corpse?

>>733547940
I think I'd keep my guard up around anyone I saw eating that.

>>733547967
That's not really relevant to what I was saying. Nobody (well mostly nobody, as I mentioned before lolicons do exist) wants to fuck child Kanako. They want the dynamic of Clover and Kanako growing up together and becoming lovers. That's why they pair them together. Take Clover when he's young, put him with Kanako, and have them grow up together and fall in love.

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>>733547345

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>>733548190
He was a good man.
*smack*
What a rotten way to die.

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>>733547651
Not that fag who is clearly a reddit tourist, but I agree with him for similar yet different reasons with the crux being precisely your pic related: Noelle is a much more interesting and developed character put in a much more interesting and developed scenario, and then on top of that gets an outside context genocidal rapist villain (You) dropped on top of her, except the situation may be even less straightforward than that. As hard as I dissed Tobias pre-CH4, I don't see anyone here having both balls and writing talent to pull something like that off. Compared to that DRY Kanako is just a random basic bitch unironically not worth raping.

>>733548190
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R2YsN_W3vAY&t=142s

>>733548123
>Nobody (well mostly nobody, as I mentioned before lolicons do exist) wants to fuck child Kanako.
Well that's what that other post (>>733546102) seemed to be saying, what with "Clover is also the player character and Kanako is around his age, so of course the players are going to want to date the fox girl vicariously through their player character.".
If that's not what the rest of that KanaClover/KanaCole/whatfuckingever shit is, that still seems a bit iffy to me, but whatever, but whatever the fuck that other guy was talking about doesn't seem right.

>>733548436
>Not that fag who is clearly a reddit tourist,
I've been here a long while now, piss off.

>>733548529
*not what that other post seemed to be saying, forgot the word not.
Ah fuck it whatever.

>>733548436
>just a random basic bitch unironically not worth raping.
I've been here for over a decade, yet I still find posts that surprise me

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>>733547142
>>733547273
>>733547770
Look anon, I hate to be that guy, but do you know where you are posting? You're in a website who thinks being a lolicon is "heckin based"
I myself hate lolifags and I do understand where you're coming from, but whining about how weird and "messed up" the whole thing will just make you an easy target and have you called a tourist.
You just have to get used that these kind of people exist and post on this site.

>>733548529
Anon, I am that other guy, and that's what I've been saying since the start. Date vicariously means grow up together and develop a relationship, I thought that would have been obvious, but since it clearly isn't to you, I have spelled it out multiple times.

No, we don't want to fuck child Kanako here, and that's not what I meant. If I meant loli Kanako I would've just said it. People don't have to pretend to be normal here, people can just say they like loli and no one gives a shit. So you can quit with the puritanism and psycho analysis.

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>>733548745
Hah, fuck.
Yeah, you're probably right. It's just fuckin' surreal to see so much of that kind of shit, it sucks.

>>733548436
Fair enough. All I can say to that is vanilla is the default flavor for a reason. A lot people like vanilla stuff, and childhood friends to lovers with no twists and a side of saving the tragic doomed girl is about as vanilla as things can get. Kriselle (or (you)elle) is like mint pistachio ice cream, its good, but its not nearly as common or easy to digest.

Also the situation likely is less straightforward than that, since Noelle has rape and abuse fantasies, has romantic feelings for Kris, and very clearly is enjoying what's happening to her once she gets into it.

>>733548871
>So you can quit with the puritanism and psycho analysis.
Being opposed to one thing in particular isn't "puritanism", that's like calling everyone who disagrees with you "thought police". This isn't the fucking inquisition, I'm a guy calling you weird on the internet, grow up.
Second, I still think it's pretty weird to get so fixated on characters that barely have any character to speak of and smack them together like action figures because they share the traits of being children and happen to have vaguely similar arcs that stop being so similar when you actually scrutinize them.
That's just a weird thing to single out those characters for and do all that shit with them, that's just weird.

>>733548745
Its not even lolicon he's arguing against, he's just trying to claim its lolicon

>>733548909
its better than a double digit percentage of the site still being pedos, but going on moral crusades against accused groomers to conceal their own guilt. For all the weird and gross shit that gets posted here, there's a lot less actual molestation than places like Reddit, Twitter, or Discord, and things run a lot smoother without the constant virtue signalling.

>>733549246
Obsessing over a fictional anthropomorphic fox and imagining her as your wife is weird. All of this is weird. Its a weird fandom.

>>733549494
>and things run a lot smoother without the constant virtue signalling.
I don't think it's "virtue signaling" for me to think that fixating on a child character that hard is weird.
People can think things are weird without doing it for attention or whatever, and the only attention I'm going to get on 4chan is just other people yelling too.
Not everyone's putting on a performance for an audience that doesn't exist, some people actually do believe the things they say.