Why are so many lore YouTubers convinced that his ending just equates to fascism? Nothing in the game seems to suggest that.
>>733629056Ask yourself how he's going to force everything to work like a clock.
>>733629152I guess Goldmask would have to take everyone's free will away right?
>>733629152totalitarianism isn't a concept exclusive to fascism
>>733629152Where does it say he's gonna do that?>>733629204Why are you so obsessed with this webm? It's kinda funny how the "nig" in knight got censored, but not funny enough to post it in every thread.
>>733629204Bingo.
>>733629271>Where does it say he's gonna do that?Do you understand what goldmask is trying to do? What is the failing in Marika he is trying to remove? What does removing that middle man do? You need to understand what the greater will is to understand how this is all going to pan out.
>>733629056>Gold masks ending equates to fascism>His ending requires the most faith and intelligence to complete What did Miyazaki mean by this?
>>733629801It has zero faith requirements
anyone who actually reads the lore would know that he's most similar in philosophy to turtlepope
>>733630940Actually that’d be dung eaters ending, Turtle Pope just isn’t smart enough to realize it.>all things can be conjoined!>ALL things, you say?
>>733630940Big no
>>733631516tard
>>733630940What's turtlepope's philosophy?
>>733629056Which youtubers? I watch them all and literally never did fascism come up. Goldmasks ending even prevents powerful entities like Marika, and all others following in her footsteps, from messing with the Elden Ring anymore.The consensus is that this is the best ending.
What? Retarded youtubers think it's the best ending.
elden ring doesn't have a sensible philosophy, it's just stuff pulled from dark souls le cycles mixed with bloodborne cthulhu godsthe game doesn't tell you what goldmask's ending means, or ranni's ending means, or fia's ending means, or whatever. Elden ring lore is style over substance
>>733633984Tarnished Archeologist, and some other guy I forget who.
>>733629056rannifags only want their ending to be the good ending
They just tryna push their irl humanities majors in a vidya analysis because nobody read their essays at uni.
>>733629056They misread the Mending Rune of Perfect Order's comment about the the gods being fickle and not any more qualified than the normal people they claimed to be superior to. A lot of people also want a cope against the idea of actually trying to genuinely help people and instead seek validation for their ending of fleeing the planet without fixing the problems their spouse caused or burning the universe down.
>>733629056If they did say that (and I have my doubts) they misinterpreted a rejection of the system that was set up by space aliens
>>733629056I guess they studied "media literacy"
>>733633984>>733637414https://youtu.be/ohVFDxEQ9OINear the end of this video.
>>733629056they're wrong. they assume "order" means fascism. ironic, since it's the opposite of chaos and violence. but they enjoy "freedoom" to the point of violence. >>733629152he's nothe's just including that gods aren't always right >>733629653>What is the failing in Marika he is trying to remove? What does removing that middle man do?you're adding stuff that isn't there. marika isn't removed in this ending. she's still alive by the end.>>733636473this>>733637252agreed. if anything, the ranni ending is the bad one since she's forcing people who love the golden order to get into her new order.
>>733629056They're dumb and illiterate. Goldmask is a based Lawchad whose faith and understanding go beyond dogmatic adherence to gods. Boiling his affinity for Total Order down to "Fascism" is like calling the Frenzied Flame libertarian. It's stupidly reductive and completely incorrect. Goldmask wants to rewrite reality so that he can force the gods to live by the same rules as normal man. It's not about taking away any free will, but just ensuring that the gods aren't able to break the rules for their petty whims. It'd be like if you could actually physically force politicians and leaders to obey the law and be impossible to corrupt.The only real endings worth considering are Goldmask, Ranni, or Frenzied Flame. Law, Neutral, Chaos. Reform the system, break the system, burn the system to the ground.
>>733639091Marika basically is removed from the system and likely crumbles at some point after the Elden Ring is mended. There's no point for the Empyrean system since it's inherent to the fundamental corruption, so the Empyreans and the beings that select them are booted out. As for Ranni's ending, the main problems are 1. the Dark Moon doesn't actually seem to be trustworthy at all and has a major interest in puppeteering people, perhaps even Ranni herself, and 2. Ranni doesn't fix any of the problems she personally caused, so the Death Blight plague is still jeopardizing the entire planet while Ranni is acting like she left the world with a clean slate. That's not getting into the increasing influence of the Formless Mother, the Scarlet Rot outer god, and the Frenzied Flame as well.>>733639524The Frenzied Flame isn't seeking to merely "burn the system to the ground," it wants to annihilate everyone and everything with no plan for that merely being a universal reset. The Frenzied Flame wants only itself to exist and doesn't actually seek anything like the restoration of the One Great either.
>>733629056Tarnished Archaeologist said it and others repeat it because original thinking is too hard I guess.He was brazenly incorrect and doesnt know what fascism is, but when has that ever stopped midwits from believing theyre geniuses.
>>733629056Because they are retard pseuds who can't describe any philosophy that predates the 20th century
>>733629056Loretubers are often just collective hallucinations. Some of their most assumed theories don't even involve citing the game at this pointAs much as Fromsoft should focus on making a coherent plot, they're never going to, so you should just be happy with your own headcanon if you're going to put up with their games
>>733637252Removing the fickleness of gods and establishing a transcendental ideology means he's removing any influence you or Marika could possibly have on the new order, and setting his own ideology in stone for all time. Remember Goldmask only decides to burn the Erdtree when he finds out Marika is Radagon, the "fickleness" he describes is the failure of Marika/Radagon to stick to their principles.>>733639091Ranni has no real order. That's the point of her ending, she takes the divine power of the ring and fucks off so nobody could use it. That's why it's an age of fear, doubt, and uncertainty. There's no absolute ruler, which means mankind is free but also no longer has a single guiding force to look up to.
>>733629056>so many lore YouTubersImagine having watched so many YouTubers videos talking about video games that you have an opinion on them.This is depressing. I'd rather kill myself than live like OP.
>>733639697>The Frenzied Flame wants only itself to exist and doesn't actually seek anything like the restoration of the One Great either.Retarded head canon. The entire reason the frenzied flame is compelling is because it promises to annihilate all consciousness, to rid the world of souls and return everything to the prima materia that the GW crafted the universe from. The flame itself is just a means to an end to melt everything back in to primordial soup.
>>733630987What's the difference between conjoining all things and incinerating all that divides and distinguishes?
>>733639524>letting some mute nudist codify his beliefs in to divine law while making it completely impossible to reform themI shiggy diggy
>The noble Goldmask lamented what had become of the hunters. How easy it is for learning and learnedness to be reduced to the ravings of fanatics; all the good and the great wanted, in their foolishness, was an absolute evil to contend with.Doesn't sound like a fascist's ideology.
>>733639697>Marika basically is removed from the system and likely crumbles at some pointi don't think so. i think she just becomes a vessel until the elden ring is broken again, which is a long time or possibly eternity. >the Empyrean systemit's over because they're all dead. you become elden lord with marika, but you can't have more children. you're the eternal elden lord. the war is over and nothing more will happen. ranni and dark moon are just shit, yeah. they might intervene to sort stuff out but they're forcing a new order. it's not a clean slate at all.>>733639969>Ranni has no real order. That's the point of her ending, she takes the divine power of the ring and fucks offi always saw this as a hypothesis. even then, it's not better than goldmask perfect order. instead of fighting for gods, humans will fight for kings. it's not a change, it doesn't reduce pain or death. it fixes nothing. goldmask perfect order is better because you rule. the order is fixed by the addition that you, and gods at large, aren't perfect and can make mistakes. but you win everything, you rule everything, the war is over, no one can rival you in power, you can't have children with marika but you're her elden lord so there's no more demigods.
>>733629152No, he's just removing God from the equation. Perfect Order, where Man gets to decide what happens to the world.
>>733639969How would removing a god's influence over the Elden Ring create anything that could make a loretuber believe Goldmask's ending is fascist? Furthermore, Goldmask doesn't even decide to burn the Erdtree, the Tarnished does that on their own while he's doing his research.>>733640047That's Hyetta's pitch, but we can clearly see from what the Frenzied Flame actually does to people that it just wants everyone except it to not exist. Furthermore, considering that Shabriri is sticking around and even says that he can't die, the Frenzied Flame is already being selective in regard to its demonic kin. It does not seek a return to the primordial soup.>>733640929Marika probably crumbles after the Elden Ring is mended because the new system boots her out. Without any ties to the sytem and such, Marika is in a state where she likely dissipates instantly. Even the Tarnished probably isn't really reigning over anything, just enjoying a free chair. The Elden Ring does its own thing and people create their own stuff now.
>>733642495>the new system boots her out? nothe tarnished fixes her head back and the elden ring appears inside her, she becomes a vessel for the elden ring. she's probably somewhat alive since it happens like this. >Marika is in a state where she likely dissipates instantlyyou're inventing and adding stuff. >Even the Tarnished probably isn't really reigning over anythinghe's literally elden lord, ruling over the lands between. all soldiers who used to attack you used to work for demigods or morgott. not anymore, since you killed them all. you now rule over all the survivors. gideon's daughter is the new leader of stormveil. you probably go on to rebuild all the lands between with your new order
>>733643084>the tarnished fixes her head back and the elden ring appears inside her, she becomes a vessel for the elden ring.That's the method for mending the Elden Ring and applying a Mending Rune if there's no Empyrean to hand the reins to. Marika herself likely dissipates after the Mending Rune of Perfect Order is finished being applied due to the very nature of what that rune does. Marika's state is already a mess to the point where it's questionable if she's even alive, and the Age of Stars ending has her dissolve into golden energy while the Frenzied Flame ending has her head outright crumble, and presumably the rest of her body follows suit. The Tarnished won't really rule anything with the Elden Ring governing itself, and giving the/an Elden Lord any particular authority would be a problem for the same reasons that an Empyrean reigning with the Elden Ring would be a problem. The Tarnished in the Age of Order probably just enjoys a free 40% holy resistance and a nice chair (if they didn't fish it out of a closet) and that's it. People have to build things and go about their lives the normal way.
>>733640021No one is stopping you. Fucking do it.
>>733640996Explain 'perfect order' to me under his system. You don't understand what the greater will entails.
>>733629056It's not fascism at all. It's anti-fascist ultraconservative. The order of the world is set in stone, it becomes immutable, unable to be touched by the whims of petulant gods and mortals alike. It preserves the world as it is, with all the rot and decay present.For all its faults, fascism IS progressive and genuinely does promise a way forward. Goldmask does not.
>>733643741What if people want out of that system?
>>733643809May chaos take the world!May chaos take the world!May chaos take the world!
>>733642495>that's Hyetta's pitchNo, those are the words of the three fingers she relays after you burn her eye sockets. And I suppose it's technically possible the 3 fingers are lying, but that would be gay hack writing. They are an interesting antagonist because they are the embodiment of the idea of regression, people turn to them not because they are nihilistic but because they are pessimistic. Those who truly follow the frenzied flame do not just want death, they believe all life and birth is a mistake. Shabriri tries to manipulate you by saying you'll save Melina and help the hopeless, when the truth of what the 3 fingers desire is to undo all of existence. When the player becomes lord or when Midra decapitates himself, their will is entirely replaced by this desire to undo all of creation. The flame is not some generic evil outer god, it's clearly more than that given the fact it's actually tied to the fingers. Furthermore the DLC confirms the characterization of the Greater Will as the demiurge, unless you're going to claim Ymir was also lying lol
>>733643856What if they don't hate anyone they just want out of the GO
>>733644016>Furthermore the DLC confirms the characterization of the Greater Will as the demiurge, unless you're going to claim Ymir was also lying lolLol no. The Elden Beast is the Demiurge, God simply left.
>>733642495Goldmask doesn't burn the Erdtree but he probably supports it's burning. Corhyn calls him a heretic when they appear in the mountaintops of the giants.Also, Goldmask isn't god. His ideology is probably better than Marika's but it's sure to have some unforseen flaws, flaws that are impossible to fix because you can no longer edit the ring. You'd probably have to shatter it again if the order was messed up in some way. It's basically an even worse version of Radagon's autism.
>>733643267>Marika herself likely dissipatesno, she doesn't. she is shown to do so in other endings but not this one because she doesn't disappear in this one. it might be the elden ring inside her holding her together, but she does not dissipate >The Tarnished won't really rule anything with the Elden Ring governing itselfelden ring is just a set of natural laws, like gravity and death. the tarnished is now elden lord. he has even defeated the elden beast. he's the undisputed ruler of all the survivors of the war.the age of order ending adds in the law that gods can be wrong, and this is enough to fix the order
>>733644016>it's technically possible the 3 fingers are lyingNone of the fingers can lie, because none of the fingers can communicate with humans at all.Hyetta knows as much as the finger reader crones, which is to say, nothing at all. She can only read and interpret the writing of the three fingers, but what can a finger truly write?The same thing, over and over and over again. All the Three Fingers can communicate are their fingerprints.
>>733643809>>733644081the golden order isn't just a religious rule, its natural laws. this is like saying "what if people wanted out of gravity?". the answer would be 1 kill the tarnished elden lord 2 break the newly mended elden ring 3 mend it again with different mending runes so that it has the new natural laws you like.
>>733644161>Corhyn calls him a heretic when they appear in the mountaintops of the giants.Corhyn is a fundamentalist my dude, everyone is a heretic to him including Marika. Goldmask's order would be to march everyone into a hero's tomb and kill themselves under the roots to feed the tree. That would be the perfect order of the golden order when you remove the human agency dictating it. People would become fertilizer for the alien without any steps between. No wars would be needed, people would simply die for the erdtree because that is why they were born.
>>733644081May chaos take the world!
>>733644329No, the GO is just a religion, it was called the erdtree faith before that. There have been 2 GOs in the game's history one more extreme than the other. Jesus you fags are dumb.
>>733644363>Corhyn is a fundamentalist my dude, everyone is a heretic to him including MarikaHeresy is merely a contrivance, all things can be conjoined.It's important to recognize that the founder of Golden Order fuhdamentalism was Radagon.
>>733644424Turtle pope is fine with it taking forever because it is a natural process of understanding. Goldmask is forcing something that is being rejected. Its important to remember that radagon is marika.
>>733644419The Golden Order is a system that governs the passage of time and death and birth.One of them, anyway.
>>733644473No it isn't, its a religion. A false one because it was supplanted by a more extreme version of itself which was also false.
>>733644157The Elden Beast did not create the material universe. The GW did.>God simply leftAs does the demiurge in pretty much every religion that believes in one besides gnosticism. Most concepts of the demiurge are similar to the Deistic concept of a watchmaker god. In Elden Ring it seems like the GW left after it had the fingers grant animals intelligence. The Elden Beast was just the vessel for the ring. I assume Placidusax's order was the first, due to stuff like the cinquedea implying the beastmen were the first intelligent beings. After it was destroyed Metyr and the fingers desperately tried to replace it. One point of confusion is how the Nox, with their fingerslaying blade, play into this, since it is Bayle that seemingly destroyed Placidusax's order.
>>733644472>Its important to remember that radagon is marika.Radagon is and is not Marika, he is an entirely separate person, or he was at some point in tge past.>O'Radagon, leal hound of the Golden Order, thou'rt yet to become me. Thou'rt yet to become a god. Let us be shattered, both. Mine other self
>>733644542>The Elden Beast did not create the material universe. The GW did.That is why the elden beast is the demiurge. Do you know what these terms mean?>>733644563No, He simply IS marika.
>>733644161>Corhyn calls him a hereticthe "hereticism" is saying that gods could be wrong and could lie. not destroying the erdtree. why are people suddenly coming out with such weird interpretations? elden ring is really simple>>733644363>Goldmask's order would be to march everyone into a hero's tomb and kill themselves under the roots to feed the treewhat the fuck are you talking about >>733644419... noit's the set of natural laws fia's rune includes those who live in death in the natural worlddungeater's rune gives everyone nightmares as the natural life goldmask's rune simply adds in that gods can be wrong and fuck stuff up, which is enough to make the order perfect. people now can doubt gods, probably even disobey them>>733644537>No it isn't, its a religionyou're really getting it wrong
>>733644537Are the Death Rite Birds also just part of "a religion"? No, they're a remnant of thr systems that governed life and death prior to the Golden Order.
>>733644587>what the fuck are you talking aboutWhat is the point of the Golden Order? You learn in the game it is now a system of eating the dead to fuel a tree, thats what all the wars were about. Have you not played elden ring?>>733644621Yes. They burned the dead.
>>733644586>He simply IS marika.Why does Marika tell him that has not become her yet, then?
>>733644673Because she knows he works for the elden beast now.
>>733644673>why does Gollum have arguments with his reflection if they're not two separate people?
>>733644016Hyetta paraphrases the Three Fingers rather than directly quoting them, so it's a mix of her pitch and theirs. The fact that Hyetta stresses that the Frenzied Flame's world wouldn't even have birth in it suggests it's very much not a primordial soup though, just an apocalypse. Also, Shabriri lies that you'll save your Finger Maiden, but Hyetta as your "new" Finger Maiden burns anyway, so the Frenzied Flame is already rubbing it in that it thinks you're fucked after seeing the Three Fingers. The Frenzied Flame only spreads "torment, despair, affliction" and other suffering on people just like it accuses the Greater Will of doing. We can also see from the Frenzied Flame ending that the Frenzied Flame apparently isn't trying to erase even itself. It tries various ways to entice people or otherwise make them more susceptible to its influence, but the Frenzied Flame itself seeks no genuine reunification.>>733644161Corhyn calls even the Two Fingers Prayerbook heretical, he easily goes overboard to the point where his accusations don't suggest that anyone is in favor of burning the Erdtree. Goldmask isn't god of course, part of his ending is hoping that this eccentric figure really does build a properly functional system, but from what we can discern, his aim is to remove and hold accountable the gods and the Empyrean system tied to them, and to help those who are suffering instead of eagerly harming them. Also, for what it's worth, his ending does seem to genuinely heal the Erdtree and restore its full splendour, if not improve it. The leaves aren't falling anymore either. Radagon just wanted to be Elden Lord period, he had no plan.
>>733629056why were the endings so lame and boring in this shit? just the same cutscene for the majority of them with just different lines of text at the bottom of the image.
>>733644650>What is the point of the Golden Order?its the set of natural laws. the point is that gravity works, life works, death works. they all work in a way that is described by the runes in the elden ring. >it is now a system of eating the dead to fuel a treethat's their version of the cycle of life.
>>733644650>They burned the dead.With magic death fire, yes. They were a part of how death functioned on a physical level prior to the changes made by the Golden Order.Dying had a different meanings prior to the Golden Order, during it and after it.
>>733644804All fire is magic in elden ring anon. Ghostflame burns the body and soul, frenzy flame does it, black flame does it.Its all magical fire.
>>733644797>its the set of natural lawsIts not though.
>>733644706The Golden Order has nothing to do with the Elden Beast itself. It's not even sentient.>>733644750But they are whollt separate people. The jars even demonstrate how that is possible.
>>733629056Because fascism is when westoids have PTSD about their deadbeat dad
>>733644184The Age of Order ending requires mending the Elden Ring without a new Empyrean taking the reins, hence the similarity of the start. Based on what we know the mending rune does, Marika likely gets dissipated once the amended system is up and running. Otherwise, she's basically a literal fossil the Elden Ring happens to be in. The Tarnished doesn't have any special authority that a person doesn't choose to believe the Tarnished has. They're more the mender of the Elden Ring than any ordained leader. The Age of Order also isn't just saying the gods could be wrong, it's removing the gods for being fickle and unqualified, among other things. It's safe to say that the Erdtree doesn't rapidly heal and shine beams down in Leyndell just from an acknowledgement that Empyreans can lie and/or mess up.
>>733644909>But they are whollt separate people.show me a picture of both of them together.
>>733644797Look dummy, the Catholic church recognizes that gravity and precession of the planets exist, that doesn't mean Catholicism is the thing dictating those natural laws. They recognize something. >>733644909Golden Order and Golden Order fundamentalism aren't the same religion anon.
>>733644909>But they are whollt separate people. The jars even demonstrate how that is possible.Nope.
>>733644424Marika founded Golden Order Fundamentalism, Melina even quotes Marika declaring its beginning at the Minor Erdtree Church on Altus Plateau. Radagon just tried to ride its coattails for validation for a brief while upon becoming Elden Lord, but he doesn't even use any of the GOF stuff in his fight. Miquella does more of that than Radagon.
>>733644419The Erdtree Faith and GO are the same, unless you are counting the Hornsent who presumably had some role in the planting of the two trees. I've seen some people say the GO didn't exist until destined death was plucked from the ring, which they place after Radagon reunited with Marika. However this is actually 100% confirmed incorrect by Rogiers dialogue which describes the force which invaded Liurnia as the GO. The DLC also heavily implies Marika removed DD when she became God.>"The forbidden shadow, plucked from the GO upon its creation"-Enia on the rune of death>"Miquella the kind spoke of the beginning... An affair from which gold arose, and so too was shadow born"-Leda in the DLC trailerThere's lots of other stuff in the DLC implying the realm of shadow is a sort of land of the dead. The funny thing is almost everyone who just plays the DLC picks up on this, but retards who watch 10 hour fanfiction video essays will deny it.>>733644189Yes presumably the three fingers convey the same message you gave Hyetta to literally everyone who learns their message"Melt it all away. Until all is one again."You're also incorrect that the fingers don't communicate with people. Lords Divine Fortification says everything was broken long ago, even the fingers are bent and broken with age, and Ymir's whole questline is about how they give out false wisdom. These revelations would be meaningless if the two fingers did not actually communicate with the crones and had no real influence over the order.
>>733645127>The Erdtree Faith and GO are the sameThey are not. Under the erdtree faith the bounty of the erdtree were cracked tears, under the Golden Order the bounty of the erdtree were rune arcs.
Erdtree Faith and GO are separated by the first burning of the Erdtree
>>733644897it is. that's the issue of godwyn. he becomes this weird fucking thing because there are no rules, no natural laws for a live body with a dead soul. >>733644973nothere's no new empyrean because there's still marika the tarnished authority comes from being the strongest in the world and most likely still has the grace of marika reviving him endlessly goldmask's rune still worships the gods, he just learns that they can be wrong sometimes. when you tell him that marika is radagon he just goes "why not?". it's just a more refined way of worships that recognizes gods as fallable. but he still worships them, they're still the most powerful beings in the lands between. even though now its just you and marika left
>>733645127>Yes presumably the three fingers convey the same message you gave Hyetta to literally everyone who learns their messageThe player is the only person Hyetta has ever talked to. Before she existed only Vyke went down there and he tried to run away at the last moment. Hyetta exists because the 3 fingers is a con that no one would do on their own since no one has. >>733645230That doesn't have anything to do with the golden order though, that has to do with marika.
>>733645175Rune Arcs were never an intended bounty, the Rune Arcs were meant to stay as part of the Elden Ring. Golden Order Fundamentalism is the result of the Golden Order's own god one day saying, "wait a minute, how does this religion even work?" and trying to figure it out.
>>733645005>the Catholic church recognizes that gravity and precession of the planets exist, that doesn't mean Catholicism is the thing dictating those natural lawsyou keep misunderstanding the religion and the golden order. you keep thinking of the golden order organization but don't understand that the golden order is the set of natural laws that has been set in by marika as she became a god. the elden ring is the set of natural laws that rule the natural world. see picrel. this was the elden ring, the set of natural laws, at the time of the dragons. the new elden ring is similar = the natural world dictated by the natural laws is similar. but it's different. marika has changed it with her runes. we did the same with our chosen mending rune. we changed the natural laws. that's how the elden ring works.
>>733645384>golden order is the set of natural lawsNo it isn't dumbass.
>>733645384So does a dictionary define terms or does it catalog the dearth of defined terms? You do know acronyms like LOL are now in dictionaries right? Do you think that was chosen by man or ordained by a god?
>>733645175That's because the age of plenty ended. Marika's order was always called the Golden Order, that's not a theory it's in Rogiers dialogue. You are objectively wrong.>>733644991They're two halves of the same person. Radagon remains loyal to the GO but Marika wants to destroy it. That's why Marika is crucified but gets let down as she turns in to Radagon. Her hammer also directly states that they had different goals. It's an obvious reference to the divine hermaphrodite of the alchemical rebis. Actually, nearly all of the red-haired characters reference that concept in some way (the red king of the rebis literally represents the alchemical process of putrefaction aka rot, is also associated with fire, and is tied more broadly to the concept of rejection/the breaking of bonds). The white queen represents creative forces and the formation of bonds (Marika and Miquella who both form their own orders, Marika's minor Erdtree incantation is "the kindness of gold, without the order")
>>733629801>zero faith requirement>game is set up so you don't have to put a single level into int to meet the requirement to cast the needed spell
>>733645501>Marika's order was always called the Golden OrderIt used to be called the Erdtree faith.
>>733643601It's not about understanding; it's about existence without a capricious god looming over everything ready to fuck it all up.
>>733645230What's left of Marika is the medium for repairing the Elden Ring in general, but once the Elden Ring is repaired, the nature of the new arrangement could easily remove Marika from the picture. The Tarnished is just a strong warrior, they're given nothing to govern with as Elden Lord, and especially so in a system where the gods are removed for being inept and no better than anyone else. You're also quoting a line that's now unused, and it doesn't suggest Goldmask is still worshiping Marika. If the flaw with the world is that the gods are fickle and literally not any better than any random person, why even have the gods? They're a liability and their system is pointless.
>>733645551Is that why Marika begged everyone to understand the faith's inner workings so they could break free from the elden beast and kill it?
>>733645408it literally is. i explained it well. >>733645484but that's the whole point of the elden ring. its the set of natural laws. marika removed the rune of death from it, thereby removing death from the world.
>>733645127>You're also incorrect that the fingers don't communicate with people.Elden Ring is a game about faith and specifically the Christian Orthodox church. It very specifically considers the question whether the world of God, as presented through intemediaries (the Crones and Hyetta, respectively) can truly be trusted. Whether it is the word of God being relayed or their own thoughts. The game never answers this question. It suggests that perhaps something went wrong, but the ones suggesting that are themselves authorities of that same faith, like Ymir.How do you know the fingers relay their wisdom or that they even have any at all? You cannot, it is merely a matter of faith.
>>733645280Yes they decieve people because "end all life forever" is a hard sellThe frenzied flame actually just being an evil alien which wishes to replace all life instead of end it would be an absolutely retarded story, it would completely ruin all the thematic weight. Instead of having a genuine, if insane, argument, the followers of the frenzied flame would be reduced to people who are simply incorrect. I am glad you did not write the story.
>>733645580At the end of the day Goldmask didn't know a giant space alien was usurping Marika and causing all the issues. Literally no one besides the player knows that information definitively. You can assume some people know like Ranni because of what her end plan is or the windmill women because their blue frock depicts the elden beast in its lair. We all know about the elden beast because we played the game, but almost no one else in the setting has any inkling that it exists in that tree but us.
>>733645280Vyke didn't try to run, the Three Fingers just didn't grab him in the exact same way. You can still see that the general direction of the burns on his armor matches the general direction of the burns on the Tarnished. Vyke just thought he could handle the Frenzied Flame but went full schizo, murdered his own Finger Maiden, and then got thrown in an Evergaol before he could reach the Forge of the Fire Giants. He probably burned the minor Erdtree on the Mountaintops too, while the Consecrated Snowfield's minor Erdtree was devastated by the Scarlet Rot.
>>733645649>but that's the whole point of the elden ring. its the set of natural laws. marika removed the rune of death from it, thereby removing death from the world.You are very close to understanding but still off. The elden ring is a representation of the cycle of life and death itself. That cycle exists independant of the elden ring. Removing the rune of death means the mechanism that death serves as doesn't work now. Life and death is a cyclical conveyer belt shuttling power around in the form of runes. If the GO collapsed that conveyor belt would still go.
>>733645741Marika wasn't "usurped", she realized the flaws in her order but couldn't fix anything because of Radagon. The Elden Beast is literally the ring, it probably only attacks you because you are ending the current order.
>>733629056His plan turns the Golden Order into a self-sustaining device, beyond any Empyrean's reach to tamper with. It'll make the Lands Between the paradise envisioned by the Greater Will, without any risks of the Shattering happening ever again.
>>733633202>Heresy is not native to this world; it is but a contrivance. All things can be conjoinedHe's saying that the concept of "heresy" is artificial and that everything and everyone is part of the natural order. In context, this implies that he believes the Golden Order, under Marika, has deep imperfections in it due to the frequent persecution of various beings (omens, albinaurics, undead, etc) that should be conjoined within the fold
>>733645580>the nature of the new arrangement could easily remove Marikai don't think so. again, you can't add stuff in. she's shown to dissipate in other endings but not this one. >The Tarnished is just a strong warriorhe's the strongest in the world. defeated malenia, radagon, radahn. >they're given nothing to govern withhe rules over whoever survived. at the very least, leyndell soldiers are now yours. but since you killed all the demigods, it's most likely that all the survivors now unite again like they were before the shattering. >If the flaw with the world is that the gods are fickle and literally not any better than any random person, why even have the gods? They're a liability and their system is pointless.it's the best they have. the tarnished now is the strongest living being in the world. he could govern right or wrong, people can now recognize this thanks to goldmask's rune. but uniting under his rule would still be better than keeping up the war.
>>733645746Vyke didn't want to destroy the world at the end of the day that is why the plan failed with the 3 fingers w/o Hyetta. You need to remove all your armor because your armor is a representation of the self by proxy. You need to shed ALL of who you are internally and externally to accept the 3 fingers gift.3 fingers makes hyetta after this failure because even the 3 fingers doesn't understand the emotions that make a person themself at the end of it all. >>733645870Her original faith was to create people with tons of rune power so they could become as gods. By the time the GO exists that system is now used to fuel the tree's growth which fuels an alien's growth. The GO was a stepping stone to something greater but got waylaid because her own religion got usurped from under her by her own proxy tulpa while she slept. Think of your own idealized self, now sprinkle in some magic to make that persona real. Your idealized self is going to run roughshod over the real flawed you because why the fuck wouldn't it?
>>733633202Carians should racemix with gingers
>>733645856no you're contradicting yourself in your own statement >That cycle exists independant of the elden ringno, it decides how the cycle works. that's why, in your own words:>Removing the rune of death means the mechanism that death serves as doesn't work now>If the GO collapsed that conveyor belt would still gono, it wouldn't. you keep thinking of it in the terms of religious organization. the golden order is the choosen set of runes that comprise the elden ring that has been chosen by marika. it can't "collapse" by itself. it takes a god to shatter the elden ring
>>733645710The two followers of the Frenzied Flame we meet are some kind of demon that claims it can't die and someone who looks, sounds, and dresses exactly like Irina and only appears after Irina has been murdered and her father (if still alive by then and not at Castle Morne) has gone insane and is likely afflicted by the Frenzied Flame. Between that and managing to appear at the Frenzied Flame Proscription, Hyetta is likely a demon too and based her form on Irina after Misbegotten murdered her. Nanaya might have been a human who was some kind of true believer in the Frenzied Flame, even if unaware of its true nature, but even she might have been some kind of demon tricking Midra.>>733645741The Mending Rune of Perfect Order identifies the system as a fundamental problem, so the Elden Beast would get removed with it anyway, along with the Elden Beast seemingly having the same fickleness. Also, the capes of Dominula don't depict the Elden Beast, those are some kind of stylized Erdtrees and perhaps a Golden Seed or meteor. Heck, for that matter, we first find Goldmask on the Dominula side of the Forest-Spanning Greatbridge, so he might have already researched there.
>>733629226it is when blosheviks took over every major institution in your country.
>>733644909>It's not even sentientIt's able to perceive and react to you, thus sufficiently fitting the definition of sentience.The word you are looking for is sapience.
>>733646181>The Mending Rune of Perfect Order identifies the system as a fundamental problem, so the Elden Beast would get removed with it anyway, along with the Elden Beast seemingly having the same fickleness.Goldmask doesn't know it exists, his entire ethos is predicated on Marika because he's a hornsent that got demolished by her religion and sees that the same future could have come about without the massive loss of life. Goldmask is a single man's perspective on how to fix a global issue, it is as shortsighted as anyone else's and likewise informed by his living experience.
>>733646014>i don't think so. again, you can't add stuff in. she's shown to dissipate in other endings but not this one.All of the "Mend the Elden Ring" endings do a transition during the middle of the mending process. Marika could easily crumble once the Age of Order is put into place. The Tarnished is only the strongest warrior in the Lands Between for certain, but regardless, being the strongest doesn't bestow some ordained authority, they just happen to be a great warrior who mended the Elden Ring. Any nation they choose to build would have to be made the conventional way. If the gods and their system stinks, there's no reason to keep it, remove the liability then try something new. Also, people could already realize that the gods were wrong before the Age of Order, it's not like there was a literal blocker making Corhyn a total bootlicker.
>>733646272>The word you are looking for is sapience.Its sapient too, just retarded. Radagon warping her sword to the GOGS shows he didn't understand anything he tried learning. Even Thops understood reality better. The elden beast sought completeness but was Order manifest so that completeness would require it to be the fount that all things spring from. When met with the realization that blue and gold are the same it said 'nah I'd win.'
>>733645925The GW didn't envision anything during Marika's reign, it peaced out a long time ago, not long after dropping the Fingers. The Fingers then continued to play pretend like the GW was still around and Marika was roped into this as well. The GO was just some shit Marika and the Fingers pulling her strings cooked up, it was never any sort of paradise (as evidenced by all the heinous and abominable shit that goes on even before the Shattering), nor would it ever be. There is no reason to preserve it, attempting to preserve it is just naivete and a result of not actually knowing the truth, which to be fair not many characters in-universe are aware of. The GO just needs to be thrown out and replaced with something better.
>>733629056Never heard about it, but there's been a resurgence of woke faggots trying to say dark souls/bloodborne is feminist because the fanbase is filled with too many chuds and that angers tranny freaks
>>733646053The Tarnished didn't want to destroy the world either, they wanted to burn the Erdtree without burning Melina as fuel. Removing the armor is likely just so the Three Fingers can make someone even more schizo even more quickly than Vyke, and perhaps power them up enough to not get captured like Vyke was.Also, the Elden Beast didn't usurp Marika, it was a being meant to oversee the Elden Ring in the first place, like a superior version of both the Shadows and presumably Metyr. Some people read Elden Stars' description as saying the Elden Beast is the Elden Ring, but if so, it'd just stay as the Elden Beast after being killed since seemingly all things in Elden Ring return to their true state if killed (Zorayas, the fake Gowries, Godrick, etc.). Restoring the Elden Beast with more Great Runes also sounds like a terrible idea that would get your ass kicked if it was the Elden Ring.
>>733646329>Goldmask doesn't know it exists, his entire ethos is predicated on Marika because he's a hornsent that got demolished by her religion and sees that the same future could have come about without the massive loss of life. I don't know who told you this, but that person is wrong and was probably outright trolling you. Goldmask clearly is not a hornsent, he has no horns at all and no places where horns appear to have once been. He also would have been despised for having horns rather than highly regarded by people like Corhyn.
>>733646674>The Tarnished didn't want to destroy the world eitherYes he does, if he does the 3 finger thing. There's no point in this discussion if you are going to assume any of us are fumbling around doing things without knowing what we are doing. For the basis of this discussion you need to assume that the player actually listened to hyetta and talked to melina and listened to her at the graces leading up to the FF. I'm not going to have a discussion like that so don't try to thrust ignorance onto me when I won't thrust it upon you. Assume for this discussion we all are being genuine with each other ( I know its weird to see on 4chan). >>733646762>Goldmask clearly is not a hornsent, he has no horns at all and no places where horns appear to have once been.A bunch of hornsent didn't have horns thats why they had an inquisition that hunted down hornless hornsent like Midra. Goldmask wears anklets that depict wind motifs like the divine warriors and his panties have the visage of a terrible mother over the crotch like a person from a faith that hates Marika for what she is would have. His entire ethos is Marika bad and he extrapolates that to all gods because he has only existed under Marika's reign. Corhyn's scribblings never mention anything about the time before Marika because Goldmask doesn't care about that. He's zero'd in on the person that ruined the world he grew up in.
>>733646674>Also, the Elden Beast didn't usurp MarikaWhy was she bound up on a rune arc?
>>733647015She got usurped like no other.
>>733646674>Removing the armor is likely just so the Three Fingers can make someone even more schizo even more quickly than Vykenoit's to hide the mark of the three fingers vyke was stopped because the mark was on the armor itself, so everyone knew what shit he was up to the tarnished gets burned on the skin, and then puts armor on so the burn is hidden. melina knows cause she was literally a spirit inside of you. but very few other people know. you can talk to hewg and roderika and boc and no one knows or notices
>>733646924Goldmask never showed a direct disliking of Markia until AFTER he founded out the Marika/Radagon reveal.
>>733647223Its because the armor is a representation of why Vyke was as a person. >>733647228Goldmask never showed any dislike period. He just thought that the system was fucked up and learning about radagon proved the religion was fake because a true religion wouldn't need to hide anything. Learning about radagon was learning that a thing he thought was truly divine wasn't. Thats why Corhyn pushes him. Goldmask's resolve breaks in the end.
>>733629056IT'S JUST TRADCATHS MAD THAT EVEN IN VIDEOGAMES BASED MARTIN LUTHOR CONTINUES TO STYLE ALL OVER THEIR ASSES
Anyone remember that part in Berserk where someone is talking about dying alone in the forest but as they are starving to death someone comes a long and gives them last rites and buries them? The person that came along thinks they are saving that hermits soul or whatever but to the hermit he was bastardized in his final moments?Feels like that had some amount of influence on this story.
>>733646924>Yes he does, if he does the 3 finger thing.No, Shabriri only mentions that the Three Fingers would allow for burning the Erdtree without killing Melina. Even as he gets manic at the end, Shabriri only says to burn the Erdtree to the ground and doesn't elaborate on what it means to burn away what divides and distinguishes, or what chaos taking the world would really entail. Hyetta never says anything about destroying the world until after the Tarnished has already been burned by the Three Fingers.All of the hornsent have horns, some just have very small horns which are still visible on their character models. Even some hornsent with headwear still have visible horns. The inquisition likely existed to torment people who weren't gung ho with the most extreme aspects of hornsent culture and the Gate of "Divinity" project. Midra was tortured due to interacting with the Frenzied Flame, something the hornsent considered a threat since it can destroy the very soul. Goldmask's current clothes were literally just handed to him by his followers as gifts, which the item descriptions even tell you. Goldmask wears his clothes until they're worn down into nothingness, but he will accept new clothes as a gift. Also, why would Goldmask be a Tarnished if he was a hornsent? Marika would have just killed him or his ancestors if she didn't toss them into the Land of Shadow.
>>733645607Marika was retarded and a woman, fuck her
>>733647015Marika got punished by it for trying to shatter the Elden Ring. The Elden Beast never usurped the Golden Order from her, and even after punishing Marika, the Elden Beast never tried to lead in her stead.>>733647223The Tarnished can go around with no armor normally, so that's doubtful. Vyke could have also changed his clothes. You also didn't mention how the Tarnished's eyes change after being burned by the Three Fingers. Melina isn't a spirit inside of the Tarnished, she travels around at the sites of Grace, with Torrent, and at Leyndell.
>>733647746Thats what Shabriri says but Melina tells you exactly what is actually going to happen. Of course the demons working for the 3 fingers are going to lie to you to get you to do what you want but Melina is straight up with you. >>733647746>All of the hornsent have hornsExcept for the hornless ones like Midra. We see the shadowlands after the hornsent start a pogrom on themselves getting rid of their not-blessed ones. We only see the evidence of that when we get to the abyssal woods and see the inquisition there and Midra without horns. The hornsent went into the same purity spirals as the GO fundies because the world keeps turning my dude. The dragons had their own purity spiral with Bayle and his younger brood trying to turn against Placidusax. The same story has been happening in a cycle for all of time. That is the true cycle of life and death of the elden ring.
Goldmask ending is pretty similar to Miquellas ending. Goldmask wants to remove the "fickleness of the gods no better than men" while Miquella wants to force everyone to love each other. Both control people.I think you could argue that Marika deserves to have her own freedom but you could also argue that she's in a position of power so important that she has to sacrifice her own spiritual and emotional needs for the sake of the people of The Lands Between. While obviously Miquella has no right to control all the civilians. Even if under both ending people would be generally better off. Though I do favor Goldmask ending because at least the citizens themselves are free; but like living under an AI overlord type of way.
>>733648012Marika caged herself by her own actions and desires and a caged god isn't worth saving. All ending besides Age of Stars seeks to control people.
>>733629056Why would that even be a bad thing? The removal of all Jewish tranny gods ushers in a millennia of pure, unadulterated order. Flawless and radiant. Why would you want anything else? He’s unironically the good ending
>>733647423>the armor is a representation of why Vyke was as a personnoit was a normal armor beforethe three fingers literally marked it >>733647878>The Tarnished can go around with no armor normallyyou can but you won't. this isn't undertale. >Vyke could have also changed his clothesfromsoft npcs never do this kind of stuff. >the Tarnished's eyes changebut no one mentions it. we know, no one else seems to notice.>Melina isn't a spirit inside of the Tarnishedbut that's how she "travels with you". she knows what happened with the three fingers because she saw it. if you go down there and don't do the ritual, she never tells you that "you're no longer fit". that's because she literally knows everything you do.
>>733648249>it was a normal armor beforeIt was, but it was Vyke's normal armor before. It represented who he was as a tarnished. He fundamentally wasn't ready to nuke the world while wearing it because the Vyke in the armor has a purpose even if he's raging against it and succumbing to nihilism. The player has to take everything off to symbolically affirm that they are shedding themselves for the cause. Vyke didn't do that because the 3 fingers didn't know that needed to be done because the 3 fingers is a retard. The 3 fingers can't do its do if there is a sliver of the self left when the hug happens. When you think of the generic protag of any of these games you think of the guy in the armor on the box of the game, because thats WHO they actually are at the end of the day.
>>733629801Zero faith needed, retardIts about having the intelligence trumping blind faith (which led to the corruption of the Golden Order)
>>733629056I wouldn't call it fascism, his ending basically just makes determinism reality.
>>733647946Melina is concerned, but the Tarnished can still readily believe that they'll be built different and not fuck up like Vyke did.The motive is "save Melina." Also, Melina is an amnesiac who has only just barely begun to get any memories back and who was raised her whole life to treat herself as disposable, which makes even her claims that she's picking this of her own volition suspect when it's so soon after she began to recall anything.Midra isn't a hornsent, he's from what appears to be an earlier period in the central Lands Between's history. We can infer from the decorative gates in Belurat and Enir-Ilim that the horns manifested gradually in the civilization and slowly became more common or otherwise spread through eugenics. If you don't have horns, you're not a hornsent. Midra's Manse was operational at a time when it wasn't impossible for a non-hornsent to still have some high status and renown. The presence of Manus Metyr and Rabbath's Rise could also indicate that Liurnians were allowed to visit parts of the Land of Shadow, so not all contact with other societies was utterly scuttled by ideology at the time. Liurnia could also possibly be trouble to fight.
>>733648560Thats why they invented to the 2 laws to get people to stop asking questions that would destabilize the faith.
>>733648645>Midra isn't a hornsent, he's from what appears to be an earlier period in the central Lands Between's history.So hornsent. The hornsent were literally the dominant humanoid culture of the central lands between before Marika wiped them out and veiled their land lol.
>>733648012>>733648095If the gods are fickle and no better than normal people, removing the gods seems to be the better option. Miquella instead seems to be trying to remove his humanity and what's left tries his charms to override free will, like a world governed by something akin to Seluvis' Starlight Shards potions.
>>733629056Because the endings are ambiguous enough that people just fill in their own preconceptionsPeople who love narratives of rebellion against established order prefer Ranni's ending and make excuses for all the shit she did and interpret the nebulous ending as completely positive.People who like narratives of restoration and reform prefer Goldmask's ending even though if we get down to it we have no fucking idea what Goldmask was even thinking. It's the idea of restoring what was broken while making it better.It's actually genius
>>733629056this thread is really filled with people who didn't understand the game
>>733648841Yeah, all routes besides Age of Stars lead to the same fundamental issue of something else dictating how you live your life. All of them are pretty extreme renditions of control as well. Some people are fine having their lives controlled by another, some are 'die on my feet instead of live on my knees' tier. Every ending is going to cause issues because 1 side is going to get the shaft, the only thing that matters is that 1 ending favors 1 group and all the other endings favor the other group. How you feel about the endings is a reflection on how you view the world, but every ending is making a choice for everyone. Under that lens (you) are the actual Greater Will in the setting.
>>733648249>you can but you won't. this isn't undertale.The Tarnished can literally start as a naked savage or a barbarian with no shirt. They could choose to still dress as that.>fromsoft npcs never do this kind of stuff. Patches in Dark Souls 3, Isshin in Sekiro, Devin and Ymir in Elden Ring. As for eyes, Hewg notices Roderika's eyes, so people can probably notice the Tarnished's eyes as well.>but that's how she "travels with you".Melina follows along the sites of Grace the Tarnished visits, she isn't inside of them. Melina sees the Tarnished at a site of Grace after they visit the Three Fingers. Even using the Forge of the Fire Giants requires resting at the site of Grace on it.>>733648716Midra has no horns, he's not a hornsent. He might have been born in their civilization, but he wouldn't have been one of them, and he could have moved to their civilization from the outside.
>>733638327What's the exact time in the video when he uses the word fascism?
>>733649190>Midra has no horns, he's not a hornsent.He had his marriage officiated in Enir-ilim my man. Look at his family photo in his manse its in the city not his manor.He was just a normal hornsent before their own culture went into the same purity spiral all cultures fall into.
>>733649080>Yeah, all routes besides Age of Stars lead to the same fundamental issue of something else dictating how you live your life.The Ages of Stars is dictated by the Dark Moon, Ranni just has to hope that it will allow her to leave and basically do nothing. However, from what we can observe of the stars and such in Elden Ring, they very much like to puppeteer people with "fates", and Seluvis quest line shows that these "fates" are just the stars trying to annihilate free will and turn people into automatons.
>>733649317The painting in Midra's Manse has scientific implements from the manse in it, indicating that it was painted at the manse.
>>733649372The moons literally do nothing that is their thing. They watch the experiment instead of trying to influence it like the other outer gods.
do i burn the Erdtree with a virgin sacrifice or go the chaos routs and burn myself.
>>733649471The moons guide the stars, they are by no means hands-off figures. Rennala making contact with her Full Moon (likely recognizing it as a life form) is also implied to have resulted in the Full Moon guiding her into her meteoric rise as a sorceress and becoming a queen.
>>733649440You can see the spiral pillars that are in Enir-ilem but not his house. He wasn't always an apostate, but an inquisition happened.
>>733649258Stop asking questions
>>733649530Link the fire, anon. Frampt would be proud.
>>733649728good goyim!
>>733649531And when Rennala got rekted her moon let it happen. The moons give info to select few and let them act on it, if they don't act then so be it.Thats as passive as possible in this setting.
>>733629056Starting to think Dung Eater's ending is the most true to life.>"To be alive... To walk this earth... That's the real curse right there."Life is shit but we need to eat it regardless.
>>733649659sorry
>>733649590Part of his house is trashed and burned down. Also, don't those pillars show up there somewhere? I don't recall them being unique to Enir-Ilim either.
>>733649775The moon(s) had Ranni to focus on by that point, and Marika was wielding the Elden Ring by then and weakening some of the influence of the moon and stars, per the premiere trailer and the Telescope's item description.
>>733649530You can go chaos to burn the tree while sparing your waifu and then suppress it to get the ending you want.Fittingly, you have to beat the strongest optional boss in the game to do this.Damn ER was just kinoFuck the dlc
>>733650058Filtered
>>733648876What does the Frenzied Flame ending say about people?
>>733649982They show up all over the shadowlands because the spiral was a symbol of their culture. It doesn't show up in Midra's Manse though. He wasn't always a dude secluded into his manse and he wasn't secluded because of the FF he was secluded because he was hornless and the hornsent started pogroming people that had no horns in their culture.
The most fun boss was pic related unironically
>>733650124Nothing. Its a reflection of the 3 fingers. The 3 fingers is Arthur Schopenhauer as a fantasy concept. People knew Schopenhauer was just a nihilist. You guys are wildly uneducated for discussing this topic.
>>733650124People who think the other endings are lame and rationalize that the world is beyond saving anyway. So it might as well end in the most spectacular manner. It's mostly about the spectacle and MAY CHAOS TAKE THE WORLD
>>733650313i love this retarded little gremlin like you wouldn't believe. its so funny how his worldview is literally just shaped by growing up as an annoying little chud with a nagging mom and incel life experiences.
>>733650241Rennala has a badass sister.
>>733629056Why was he cosplaying as a sunflower?
>>733629056Cause youtubers don't care about the story and have a collective mind, they just want to play whatever shit is popular and do it fast.So if one of them say something that sounds baguely smart all of them would say the same shit.
>>733649764
>>733650513The mask likely depicts the Mending Rune of Perfect Order, but it's also noteworthy that all sunflowers face the Erdtree in the Lands Between and the Scadutree in the Land of Shadow.
i literally abandoned the game after beating the guy at the golden tree.at first i thought that was the ending and when i realized there was more i was like fuck this shit im not going to waste anymore of my timei watched the ending on youtube.i don't remember a single thing. i played Demons day one by the way.
>>733650436I like how he has the exact consternation on his face you'd expect from a guy that spent his life seething internally.Ugly on the inside ugly on the outside. Lookism is the real religion.
>>733650667Finally someone who actually did not beat the game
>>733650667Okay.
>>733650513Its a dualistic mask.>sunflower motif - sunflowers are the symbol of the warrior slain, once you dig into the lore you know the qualities that create sunflowers that face the erdtree>top down perspective of the erdtree seen from space where the ayyys come fromIt infers that he knows the true nature of the cycles going on under the aliens, probably not consciously.
>>733650667>Im shit and have bad taste Woaw
Time is convoluted.
>>733650972Wrong game
>>733644909>The jars even demonstrate how that is possible.St. Trina is a better example of what the deal is. Imagine if instead of having your natural alter ego discarded instead it decides to consume the primary. Radagon never existed but was a persona Marika could adopt, but one way or another it became the Golden Orders number one guy and decided it didn't need Marika or her radical teachings anymore. It couldn't subsume her role entirely before she had her woman moment and burnt the world down.
>>733629271>Why are you so obsessed with this webmThe anon your asking this to is shizo or a derivative copy-cat of another schizo. This schizo may or may not be the notorious Eric, a schizo who shows up in a few game topics to fuck with them a particular way, but that's a massive rabbithole in of itself.Regardless of who he is, he believes or ritual posts like someone who believes that every Elden Ring thread is a creation of Dragonirian.>Who the fuck is Dragonirian?Literally nobody. He's some fag on steam who has a youtube channel showcasing boring elden ring pvp videos.Dragonirian pops up in popular screen cap making an argument about why Baldur's Gate III's bear sex is degenerate. The theory is that the schizo (In this case, being Eric who shizo protected BG III threads) got really mad at people posting that screen cap and concluded the person doing it must be the guy making the post.He then started stalking the guy and found out about the Elden Ring PVP videos, noticed his steam community posts also shat on Seamless Co-op and concluded any criticism of Seamless on /v/ was also Dragonirian.I believe Knight of Crail is supposed to be Dragonirian's character in that webm, so the schizo believes it's supposed to be an insult towards him.
>>733651158Trina is different from Radagon, because St. Trina and Miquella were always the same person. Marika and Radagon are the opposite.
I don’t know how anyone can debate ER lore after the DLC made it clear that they never had any intention of making the mechanics and history of the world lucid. In DS1, the discussion of linking the fire vs becoming the dark lord is one of relative morality. Is the age of fire worth saving? Are humans untrustworthy without the guiding hand of gods?How much longer does the word have before it's irrelevant? They can argue moral semantics because the logistics are plainly stated. /v/ discussions about the age of order, or duskborne, or really any ending except for chaos boil down to "what the fuck just happened" followed by various cocksure fancanons.There's no clear explanation of the laws of this world and how the ring alters them, or any of the endings you've spent 100 hours killing for, so the motivation of our characters is completely arbitrary and world itself holds no deeper meaning to me, no matter how many proper nouns I memorize.
>>733651271Didn't read ranni simp
>>733651104Time is even more fucked up in Elden Ring than Dark Souls.
>>733650972So glad ER didn't do that nonsense. >>733651260Same with Marika and Radagon. He mysteriously shows up during the Liurnian wars because that is when Marika made him up for herself.
>>733651260Marika and Radagon were probably always the same too. Marika likely created him atop Enir-Ilim to be her lord, then treated him like trash when Messmer was born cursed.
>>733651582>ER didn't do that nonsense. Farum Azula
>>733651271Everything makes sense in elden ring though. The game filters a ton of people with low IQs but you can easily see from the people that do get it they get it completely.
>>733644016People who go "The Three Fingers lie!" do so completely based on memetic /pol/ force.It's simple. Shabriri is a jewish name for an eyeless demon and the merchants summoned the three fingers and are jew-coded. Therefore the FF is lying. This also goes into the narrative that "The three fingers take the form of a 3 fingered 2 fingers like some sort of satanic mockery just like Moloch!"It's stupid, Michael Zacki isn't dropping a red pill on everybody. If you aren't viewing it as a happy merchant meme, it's very obvious the point of the Frenzied Flame is supposed to be a completing "other half" to the golden order.I'm fully convinced the FF originates form the GW or its cosmic counterpart, since it is the ultimate expression of regression while the the GW seems to embody causality. You basically need to be convinced a japanese business man and George R. Martin are following trending counter semitism memes to think otherwise.
>>733651634Whats convoluted about that? The place is blown the fuck out from a meteor and Placidusax sits in a tornado holding time still. The game explains it all instead of saying time is convoluted. Get the top tier smithing stones and they even tell you that the dragons are timeless lol.
>>733651603>Marika likely created him atop Enir-Ilim to be her lord, then treated him like trash when Messmer was born cursed.Marika's original Lord was Godfrey.Messmer is not Marika's trueborn child, he's Radagon's, like Rykard, Ranni, Malenia and Melina.
>>733651639You can’t even tell me what the Elden Ring does
>>733651731Lol no. The red hair thing was always just marika being a regressive luddite that went all in on faith based understanding instead of intellect. The english literally did the same thing with the irish. You guys really do not understand anything about this game lol.
>>733651827Axis Mundi innit?How many times are you going to get humiliated like this?
>>733651925>erdtree>gold mask>cuckoo/rooster>twinbirds>sun and moon>cornucopia (hornsent) with torrent next to it>flowers everywhereThis guy gets it
>>733651643>the merchants summoned the three fingers and are jew-codedNo, they're not jews, not even close. They're explicitly Russian orthodox Christians.The three fingers are explicitly a reference to the 17th century finger schism of the Russian orthodox Church.
if the merchants were unfairly persecuted then why do the ones who were never imprisoned wield frenzied flame too
>>733629204Why do you keep spamming this, you stupid jeet
>>733652102I wasn't around for the American Civil War but I know about it and agree with what the Americans did because I am an American.Merchants are shitty people in the game but they do hunt bloody fingers and keep the lands safer as long as you don't ask them too many questions.
God (Serosh) needs a lord (Godfrey) and a lord requires a vessel (Marika)Gold intertwined with silver = old alliance of the erdtree and the ancient dragons
>>733652274Sarrosh is just a Lion.
>>733651925That’s what the game says in the intro yes, very good anon. Except that many “rules” established by the GO are both present before its establishing and after the ring’s shattering. Things die constantly. Day and night pass. There’s no consistency to the most foundational information about this world. >>733652065Don’t samefag its embarrassing
>>733651925Based understander.
>>733652082Interesting, but ultimately the simple fact that Shabriri is named Shabriri is all /v/ needed to claim Hyetta lies, because he's got a jew name. That's it, that's all that's needed to dismiss all we know about the FF. He lies, because he's got a jew name.It's quite the boring take and also used by retards to argue against what is among the most important clues as to the chronology of the games past events>Hyetta is lying otherwise my headcanon wouldn't work.
>>733652102Diegetically, their years of abuse and neglect. really, cuz they made an enemy type and weren’t going to waste it
>>733651731Godfrey seems to be the first official Elden Lord of the Golden Order, but there's no sign of him in the DLC Story Trailer atop Enir-Ilim, and Marika's earliest children appear to have the traits of Radagon, not Godfrey. This implies that Radagon existed earlier in the timeline than first thought, and with Marika as the last survivor of the Shamans, trying to have a kid with herself would be a desperate way to try repopulating that civilization.
>>733652315lol
>>733629056Most people today are retarded and fascism = anything I don't like
>>733652315He's Beast Reagent. I wish that was explained better though.
>>733652435It pisses me off as well anon. The game already provides next to nothing in terms of baseline rules of creation. We get one line, why the fuck would it be a lie?
>>733652496Godfrey is context sensitive you need to actually play the game and look into his stuff to learn where he fits into the setting.He was a bear champion of the shadowlands and marika took him as her first husband because he was a champion.
>>733652592Its neither lie nor truth. Its a fantastical rendition of an assumption on how reality started.
>>733652631Godfrey was from a highlands clan that liked hunting Red Bears, but that doesn't mean he was atop Enir-Ilim in the DLC Story Trailer. Godfrey seems to have been Marika's Plan B when she blamed Radagon for Messmer being born cursed, or she ditched Radagon and picked a new Elden Lord in the hope of better hiding exactly how she became a god. Godfrey being better at fighting than Radagon seemingly was would also be a big benefit.
>>733652704Why would a cosmically preserved being like Hyetta and Shabriri not be given the whole truth from the cosmic force that sustained their existence?
>>733652631>He was a bear champion of the shadowlands and marika took him as her first husband because he was a champion.He also hated her until he got mindfucked by drinking some of the erdtree sap. His armor shows 2 bears ripping a woman/tree in twain.
>>733652704This isn’t high school history debate, it’s a fictional world with definitive rules. There’s no reason to mistrust it, there’s no reason to assume it’s some kind of allegory because this is fiction, not anthropology, and it’s the only explanation provided.
>>733633202>Bestiality is fineJesus the lands between is filthy
>>733652874Way to ruin the wholesomeness of the Godfrey/Marika Doujin.
>>733652847Marika doesn't wed Godfrey until the tree is already growing, she has him drink some erdtree sap that changes his entire personality. He was a bear champion his philosophy was going it alone until he mysteriously chooses not to and drinks some sap.
>>733652874Shit like this is why I’ve come to hate ER lore threads. There’s enough circumstantial evidence to argue literally anything, and you all do, so sure of yourselves, and it’s meaningless because the game never intended to answer the questions to begin with. By the way, that’s his elden lord outfitt, and he almost certainly received a makeover to fit the role. why would armor Marika gave him depict him murdering her
>>733629056If this guy is Fascist then Frenzied Flame is Communist
>>733652990Anon you can still have your doujins. Marika made Radagon in the image of the perfect warrior that Godfrey was because Godfrey hollowed out her pusy with rage induced sex. The bitch never forgot the shape of his dick and spent the rest of her life looking for a replacement and couldn't find it. She lets him out of his boat cuckshed in the end because she really wanted that primal dick again.>>733653173I'll take a picture to show you as proof.
>>733653050That talisman doesn't imply he drank the sap and his personality changed, just that he stoically accepted the sap at some point. He's already Godfrey in the depiction on that talisman, so Marika would have recruited him when he was Hoarah Loux.>>733652874Where are you seeing two bears and a woman on that armor? Also, Marika likely designed the armor in the first place.
>>733653235Bear warriors go it alone anon.
>>733653173It used to be fun to do this until the Sunrealm Schizo decided to create a satirical shitpost methodology to mock it by creating the most contrarian head canon lore bible to explain everything.
>>733653324What does that have to do with the post? Also, the highlanders were an entire clan, so they weren't alone.
>>733640996>Man gets to decide what happens to the worldThis is not a good thing anon. Man is retarded.
>>733629056lore Youtubers literally think Gwyn was a bad guy even though the Pygmies were all down with his plans.
>>733653379For me personally it was the DLC. Messmer’s birth and the hornsent’s place in the chronology fucked up every working model of the timeline, then the final nail of “oh BTW the fingers are retarded and nothing they say is of value” made me turn my brain off
>>733653603>why wasn't the dlc my based Godwyn headcanon
>>733653235
>>733653603It makes sense. Bayle challenged Placidusax which made his god flee and now there is an opening in the position of ring bearer. Marika and GEQ were candidate empyrean for the new order but Marika wins out in the end.
>>733653603>the final nail of “oh BTW the fingers are retarded and nothing they say is of value” made me turn my brain offAnon, you didn't actually think the Fingers were real, right? There's no way you're that naive, r-right? So you seriously believe that some ossified fingers twitching can be interpreted by a bunch of weird old hags, resulting in anything valuable? How fucking naive are you, anon?
>>733653797Nothing about that looks like two bears or a tree. It's a heavy armor that's actually meant to be a burden on Godfrey far more than it protects him.
>>733653603I'm not sure how Messmer and the Hornsent ruined the working model of the time line, you're going to have explain that to me.As for the fingers, it was already implied well before the DLC that they were making shit up, in that they literally freeze when the Erdtree blocks you, urgently trying to contact the GW. It is quickly established that the "We are in contact with God and this is what he wants" thing was a ruse, cementing it as "it was Metyr organizing shit" was just adding to it.
>>733629152He’s literally just forcing the rules already in place to also apply to the gods.
>>733653797Okay I see it.
>>733652082Not that anon but I see more Old Testament with Three Fingers. Russian Orthodoxy isn’t an antithesis to Catholicism or Calvinism. They are all Christian. They all believe Christ died for their sins on the cross and was resurrected. They all surrender to the same God. They have some very different interpretations of specifics and different rituals but the Bible is largely the same. Merchants are more comparable to Baal worshippers as opposed to the Golden Order being comparable to Yahweh worshippers. Yahweh explicitly tells King Saul to massacre the Amalekites (the merchants) for the sake of the greater good. And because he did not, and their religion (likely Baal worship) ran rampant. And much of 1 and 2 Kings is about the Israel descending into chaos as they turn away from their God and towards idol worship. Even Solomon fell victim to this. Marika wanted to destroy the Merchants, was unsuccessful, and then three fingers and chaos is still rampant in Lands Between.
>>733653931Metyr wasn't even organizing anything, she was just desperately waiting for another message from the Greater Will.
>>733629056>Why are so many lore YouTubers convinced that his ending just equates to fascism?Because they are fucking retarded and Elden Ring is an high IQ game>>733629152>Ask yourself how he's going to force everything to work like a clockWhat the fuck are you talking about, schizo?
>>733654024Her 2 fingers are who choose who has the ring. Every culture has been set up and then knocked over by Metyr.
>>733629056Goldmask's is the best ending because people a thousand years from his order's inception can point to the Elden Ring at a singular, complete truth, and build their lives with that foundation. "The Greater Will wanted us to exist, all things exist in a chain, all things want to come together, but that isn't possible, so we move forward". In our world, we have billions of people with different ideas on how existence came to be, god, etc. Can you imagine how much easier life would be if we had one truth that we knew was the truth?
>>733653173>why would armor Marika gave him depict him murdering herWoman moment.>>733653797Women fuck runebears, then exile him because he's become too civilized and isn't "emotionally available" anymore (doesn't give her tingles).
>>733629056Is the weather fascist? Gold masks idea is just for a system that influential Individuals can’t intentionally fuck up. Nothing to do with polticial or social control of society or the economy. Fascist is such a buzzword.
>>733654062Metyr isn't communicating with them either. Enia says she's seen the Two Fingers make contact with the Greater Will once before, so at least one Two Fingers is still able to do that, but based on the lack of any microcosm in the attempt, their contact with the Greater Will is likely a mess.
>>733653173That's the scadutree on his armor
>>733651643>I'm fully convinced the FF originates form the GWYeah NO SHIT, Frenzy is burning Grace melting everything back into divinity, just like Grace merges everything into Divinity, just differently, into the One Great.The Frenzied Flame literally abides to Regression and Casuality to the point the adepts start melding to look the same, and the reason they give eyes to their maiden is that eyes contain grace, which is burning flames in themOnly retards think it's an Outer God
>>733654135>Metyr isn't communicating with them either.But she made them and let them do their programming anon. Their programming is what Metyr also wants. Its the 2 fingers she created that have the rule that an empyrean for the next cycle needs to be in place. Every culture has suffered it since the dawn of time except for Marika that said no way fag I'm keeping it. Civilizations rising then falling is hard coded into the system until one can arise and contact the GW. The alternative is Metyr saying I've tried nothing and it hasn't worked. No nigga she's tried everything and entire cultures have been scuttled in the endeavor.
>>733652874Source: your ass>>733653603Gideon, who is into Marika's plan, knows the Fingers are broken and says so, lorelet
>>733654357Bear philosophy is do your own thing alone and you'll find god that way.
>>733654024Someone was establishing the system Fingers were following, since Ymir says he learned the GW checked out at the point of creation.So yeah the fingers were doing their little operations, seeking gods to elevate to rulers. Hell the Nox were probably punished by Metyr, not the GW. I mean she has the power to open microcosms, she could have summoned the Astel.>>733654135If Metyr can't contact the Gw through her microcosms, what makes you think her children can?
>>733654005The schism of the fingers was (partly) about the number of fingers believers used to make the gesture of the cross.In traditional orthodoxy the gesture was performed using three fingers, as a sign of the Trinity. Meanwhile, the Russian Orthodox church, entranged from Constantinople for a long time used two fingers, mirroring the gesture of benevolence as prominently featured on the Pathokrator icon.As time progressed, the Czar sought closer ties with the orthodox main church and when delegations were sent, they found the people performing the sign of the cross wrong, alongside with a wider break from proper orthodox teachings. The russian people were in part forcibly converted to these original teachings and the ones who couldn't be converted were driven into exile, deep into Siberia, developing into a separate ethnic group with their own version of Orthodox Christianity, the Old Believers. Their traditional garments are also similar to the Merchant's clothes.Many of these old believers also did self-immolated in orthodox churches when the schism was ongoingAll of this is more or less exactly what happened with the two/three fingers.
>>733654323The civilizations likely functioned beforehand, but the Nox used the Fingerslayer Blade and injured Metyr. Since then, she seems to have cooped up at the Finger Ruins of Miyr desperately trying to get in contact with the Greater Will while birthing deranged children that barely know what they're doing and are themselves ignored by Metyr.
>>733653854That’s headcanon, anon, as much as I wish it fit neatly it doesn’t. Marikas ascension didn’t reference GEQ once. Nor is there ant evidence connecting Azula to the hornsent, so there’s no way to know when they existed in relation to each other. >>733653867Right, anon, that’s very clever of you to notice how wrinkly and gross they are, that was a subtle clue. No, retard, I’m just tired of From going 4-4 on the same trope. Though at least usually the secret truth of the universe is intentional, malevolent obfuscation. This is like if a mystery novel ended with the reveal being the victim slipped on a banana peel. >>733653931Just from a narrator perspective, it seems incredibly, irritatingly convoluted to imply that Marika and Radagon had kids, then Marika and Godfrey, then Marika and Radagon again. A like I mentioned above, the hornsent by their close relationship to Marika displace Azula and the nox as the previous stewards of the lands between, and because they didn’t care, make no effort to mention either of them so it’s guesswork.
>>733654541>That’s headcanonNo headcanon, thats just the events of the game.
>>733654465Considering the Erdtrees seen throughout the universe in the Elden Beast's arena, the system was probably created by the Greater Will and Metyr was just in charge of handling part of it. The Nox were probably punished by the Greater Will considering the scale of their punishment across the Lands Between, but the Greater Will then ragequit instead of helping Metyr at all. As for a Two Fingers contacting the Greater Will, Enia says she has seen it once before. The message was probably a choppy mess, badly conveyed, and badly understood though.
>>733646181>The Mending Rune of Perfect Order identifies the system as a fundamental problem, so the Elden Beast would get removed with it anyway, along with the Elden Beast seemingly having the same fickleness.Quit making shit up, the Perfect Order expands the Order to the Stars and not just the Erdtree, as symbolized by the mending Rune being a circle around all Stars, of which the Erdtree (that replaced the Sun depicted on Goldmask mask) is just part of. This makes the Order perfect because it exists beyond the control of a Goddess through their Sacred Tree, and all people in the Lands Between who did not imbibe the Erdtree sap now have their Fate writ upon the sky again rather than being left at the fridges and excluded from Order.Fucking hell the Goldmask Quest takes you to fucking Stargazer Ruins, why do you think that is?Elden Ring really shows how the majority of people on Earth are literal NPCs
>>733654470Oh that’s a neat bit of history. That does sound more like Miyazaki or Martin’s more direct source of inspiration .
>>733654645>Quit making shit up, the Perfect Order expands the Order to the Stars and not just the ErdtreeThe Elden Ring already affected the stars, per the premiere trailer for the game. "That which commanded the stars, giving live its fullest brilliance." Goldmask's quest also goes to the Mountaintops to study the history of the war against the Fire Giants and what happened there, per Corhyn's dialogue.
>>733648249>fromsoft npcs never do this kind of stuffBernahl changes his armor and weapon when he joins Volcano Manor
>>733629056lol, everything some retard doesn't like in 2026 is "fascism" at this point, fuck'em
>>733654541The Nox banishment clearly happened before the Hornsent, as did the fall of Faram Azula.We know it's heavily alluded that the Nox descend from Numen. The older "uld" ruins appear closer to presumably Numen architecture compared to the Nox buildings which look more Liaurnian.Meanwhile the Numen in the shadowlands were unironically pigs being raised for slaughter in a tiny village. So obviously Numen being majority banished allowed the Hornsent to take over.Faram Azula HAS to take place earlier, because the majority of its population are beast men and the game speaks of Beast Men as being before humanity, with the exception of Numen who may have come from space and may have also lived there due to the amount of human reliefs in the city.>Ok but if that's the case what about the Dragons?Dragons beefed with Marika's expanse to power, no indication they would have ever fucked with the Hornsent.Also the fact that the greatest Dragon Hunters are in the scadulands, its safe to assume there was a sort of good relationship with them due to their proximity to Bayle.
>>733648095>All ending besides Age of StarsNeglect and control are two sides of the same coin. A parent that abandons their child is also forcing them into a set of conditions that they must constantly live within.
>>733654956It’s absolutely ridiculous that you two are arguing about a decision that was clearly only made so they wouldn’t have to make 3 finger scorched versions of every single piece of clothing in the game instead of 1 skin texture.
>>733649590At first I thought her eyes were faded out. Then I looked and realized they are in the painting and god damn are they spooky as hell.
>>733655106BAYLE
>>733650241It's some total bullshit that she didn't get a cutscene. Bridges got more cutscene than her.
>>733655154:)
>>733629056And why do they also believe that this guy is fascist?
>>733654623>Erdtree seen throughout the universeVaati nonsense. The trees in the background during the Elden Beast fight don't imply that.I hate this meme since the Erdtree is just Marika's perfected concealment unit of the Crucible, not a finger of the greater will. All the items regarding the erdtree talk about it being exclusive to Marika and then also keep claiming it used to be the crucible.If it was the Greater Will's personal icon or whatever the Erdtree would have been made at the beginning of the setting.
>>733655151That's a practical reason, but there's a story reason too so it's cohesive.
>>733654870>The Elden Ring already affected the starsNo it doesn't, the Elden Ring does not affect anything of the Stars. The Elden Ring is the physical manifestation of Order through various forms in different ages, and represents Marika's Erdtree. As such the Elden Ring affects through light the Fate of those who imbibed the Erdtree sap, that are now bound in Life and Death to the Erdtree. Before the Age of Marika, fate was writ upon the sky, of which the brighest Star, the Sun, represented Order.Goldmask extends that Order to the Erdtree and the Stars, so that it trascends the control of Goddesses through Sacred Trees.>Goldmask's quest also goes to the Mountaintops to study the history of the war against the Fire Giants and what happened there, per Corhyn's dialogue.More headcanon nonsense
>>733629056>Why are so many lore YouTubers convinced that his ending just equates to fascismPeople just use fascism as a synonym for authoritarian because 95% of people are historically illiterate
>>733655405America is literally facist now tho
>>733655318>Vaati nonsense. The trees in the background during the Elden Beast fight don't imply that.Why would there be Erdtrees everywhere throughout space in the Elden Beast's own dimension if the Erdtree was incidental? Even the mural of the Elden Ring in Farum Azula has the Elden Ring amidst a fledgling root system. The Siluria's Tree weapon also notes that the Crucible was a tree, so it wasn't turned into a tree all at once by Marika. The Erdtree appears to have been planted to help life develop at all, which grew as the seed spread its root network and slowly matured into a tree.
>>733655274Because Miquella gooners are upset he lost even though Miquella always failed at everything
>>733655515The Crucible is tree roots from the primordial giants seen in NightreignThe talisman of all Crucibles confirms thisRauh, through Miranda, learned to cultivate them with Death into Sacred Trees, which is why everywhere in the Lands Between there's statues of Priestesses sticking a Death Rite Spear into a growing Crucible
>>733655565Good god they make me sick. Lets just leave the world to a wierd kid and his war loving brother whos been resurrected into the body of blood satan.
>>733655374>No it doesn't, the Elden Ring does not affect anything of the Stars.Check the trailer again:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e5wwSxl0atcThe Telescope's description also mentions that "During the age of the Erdtree, Carian astrology withered on the vine. The fate once writ in the night skies had been fettered by the Golden Order." Clearly the Elden Ring can already affect the stars around the planet.
>>733655840>During the age of the Erdtree, Carian astrology withered on the vine. The fate once writ in the night skies had been fettered by the Golden OrderAre you ESL?
>>733655374>>733654870Holy and Magic are effectively the same shit, the game sort of alludes at it in the amount of spells and techniques that are the same with only difference being color.Then of course the stars have all this shit regarding "control" but then so does the Elden Ring and the Fingers that manage it.Ultimately, the Elden Beast was a gold star at some point, so you could argue that the ER is just the King Star of the setting and just a lot stronger than the other stars.Metyr is also described as being a star.>>733655515Maybe the Elden Beast, being codified as the golden order at that point, just liked the Erdtree because that was its nature at that point? Also despite Siluria's tree, the DLC implies the crucible is also a spiral of energy. This is displayed through the spiral incantations, Vortex weapon arts, the spiral tower, the obsession with spiral horns of the Hornsent.It could easily be both, a golden spiral of energy with a tree overlayed on it.I'm just pointing out that the Erdtree was Marika's refinement of the cruicible and that all the memes that it's an alien parasite plant or whatever because golden trees show up in the final fight is a vaati idea that isn't supported by anything in the game.
>>733655742Nightreign didn't exist when they were making Elden Ring and has been specified as a spinoff with no connection for anything after the Shattering begins. The Talisman of All Crucibles is just a carving of fleshy bumps that would grow on ancient giants, not tree roots. Your picture also shows an ancient giant's remains being affected by the wooden vines sent out by the Scarlet Aeonia. What statues are you even talking about?
>>733655893How do you think the Golden Order fettered the "fate once writ in the night skies"? The Elden Ring can command the stars, just like the premiere trailer's narration says.
>>733629056...
>>733656083Trailers aren’t canon, sweaty.
>>733655840>What I say: Fate uses to the bound to the Stars, then the Erdtree bound all of it to itself>Description: Fate uses to the bound to the Stars, then the Erdtree bound all of it to itselfWhat you say: The Elden Ring affects the Stars and also Goldmask was investigating the war for the Giants trust me (even though nobody said this)>>733656009>Nightreign didn't exist Irrelevant, it was canon friendly and includes many clear connections>as a spinoff with no connection for anything after the Shattering begins.Also irrelevant. Same lore, same world>The Talisman of All Crucibles is just a carving of fleshy bumps that would grow on ancient giants, not tree roots.No it's specifically roots, seen in game. It's also a trope reused from Dark Souls (titanite) and Demon's Souls (the skeletons of Stone Fang>What statuesThese, that show Rauh learned the secret to plant Death (represented by a literal Death Rite Spear) and grow a tree. Sacrifices, in the form of blood saplings or runes after Marika (that have the same exact shape for a reason) grow or feed Sacred Trees
>>733655938If the Elden Beast wanted to codify itself as the Golden Order, being a space dragon chimera human plant was a far cry from that idea. It would also have no reason to put so many decorations up when the arena change was to facilitate kicking ass. The DLC suggests that energy from the Crucible can be a spiral current, likely when the root system was still forming and the Crucible was in a more raw state, but the Crucible seems to naturally grow into a tree and Marika just happened to try claiming credit once the thing began fully maturing. I agree that the Crucible/Erdtree isn't some parasite, it exists to help life develop and survive on the planet.
>>733656009Anon that's sunrealm schizo do not engage. One of the clear signs of Sunrealm Schizo is his fixation on concept characters like Rosus where he'll come up with extremely elaborate backstories based on virtually nothing.Or he'll take a concept or a name, in this cause Rauh. We know Ruins of Rauh, but not a character, but he has a character named Rauh in his headcanon.He's probably done the same with Uld, Sellenia, Moorth and other cities or places that may be named after someone.
>>733656083Can you answer to me, are you ESL?>How do you think the Golden Order fettered the "fate once writ in the night skies"? Through Light, because Fate is determined by Light, the Light from the Stars (before) or in this case the overwhelming and blinding light of the Erdtree (which is exactly why some can't draw their Fate from the Stars).After all, Rosus used Light to lead the dead
>>733656374>sunrealm schizoBy now, when you call someone like that in a Souls lore thread, I automatically know he is correct
>>733656374Oh are you the retard that was trying to claim the Dark Soul is black?>>733656354The Elden Ring was created by Marika communing with the Gate of Divinity, and shaping the Rune from raw Gold strings.Then when an Order is broken the Ring fades. This is also what happened to Miquella and the Sun Realm Order
>>733654541>From going 4-4 on the same tropeWhat do you mean? The finger reader crones are doing their best to prevent things from going to shit (and failing). They are well meaning, but can't see. Shabriri is obviously evil and trying to burn the world to get revenge on it, but he's also very honest about this.Frampt and Kaathe are both lying to you, but in general the people guiding you are quite honest.
>>733644016its not that the 3 fingers are lying, its that Hyetta is lyingshe and Shabriri are very obviously the same type of being, possessing corpses to manipulate suckers into burning it all down
>>733656229They are, to the point where Radahn's intro in the DLC is directly based on his intro in the Story Trailer.>>733656262The Erdtree didn't bind the stars to itself. The Elden Ring could already influence the stars, thus the Golden Order could influence them. Your claim that the Mending Rune of Perfect Order adds the new feature of affecting the stars doesn't add up. Corhyn also specifically notes the fact that Goldmask is trespassing atop the "forbidden mount of fire." That's the important part. Anything about the astrologers could be better learned in Liurnia, where the astrologers moved to.Nightreign was specified to split its relevant info upon the Shattering beginning, meaning the tree giants have nothing to do with Elden Ring's story. The Talisman of All Crucibles has animal aspects, so you're wigging out. The statue in your image is a male monk hugging a growing Erdtree sprout rather than a priestess stabbing something with a Death Ritual Spear. You're a schizo, get some help.
>>733656354>Space Dragon chimera human plantElden Beast is a combination of that one IRL nebula and a Hallucaginia worm (Attack on Titan Worm-Kun was out likely around the time Elden Beast was designed)What I mean by "codify" is the Elden Ring is obviously modular, it can be changed. Marika changed it by removing the Rune of Death and probably other runes judging by the Farum Azula ER.So if the Elden Beast within Radagon is the Golden Order, of course it's going to love the Erdtree.
>>733656448>>733656624You've resorted to sucking your own dick at this point.
>>733656387"Fate" isn't determined through light, the friggin' Dark Moon can apply/affect it and that has a black hole as its core. The Starlight Shards and Amber Starlight are shards of glintstone. The Erdtree also can't prevent Liurnia's sky from depicting the entire galaxy even during the day, so clearly nothing is being overwhelmed in that regard.>>733656624The Elden Ring existed before Marika was even born, that's why there's a mural of it in Farum Azula and the Divine Towers reactivate Great Runes. The Sun Realm didn't have an order, it was something that cropped up with no active god and was probably made up of a Farum Azula diaspora and miscellaneous highlanders.
>>733656881The Elden Beast has its inspirations, but the final creature is clearly a chimera of humans, fish, birds, dragons, and plants. It has major Crucible vibes even though such chimeras were hated by Marika's Golden Order. The Elden Beast appears to be acting on its own to prevent the Empyreans from totally ruining the system its boss, the Greater Will, built.
>>733656773>The Erdtree didn't bind the stars to itselfNobody said this, ESL>The Elden Ring could already influence the starsNo it couldn't. You still can't understand how Fate works after being told with visual evidence and a LITERAL DESCRIPTION, hilarious>Your claim that the Mending Rune of Perfect Order adds the new feature of affecting the stars doesn't add up. The Perfect Order doesn't "affect the Stars" it expands the Order to include the Stars through the cogitations of Light performed by Goldmask at the Stargazer Ruins. Goldmask created a Mending Rune using starlight from other Stars, and that's why he needs to travel to Mountaintops>Corhyn also specifically notes the fact that Goldmask is trespassing atop the "forbidden mount of fire." That's the important part.Yes, because it's always "night" in Mountaintops, Death Rite Bird can always spawn. Mountaintops is outside the influence of the Golden Order, at the fringes. From there, Stargazers (or Goldmask) can still see starlight. That is what Goldmask cogitations are. He uses light to gestate a mending Rune which includes Starlight. It has nothing to do with the War to the Giants.>Nightreign Is canon and clearly relevant as proved several times through many metaphysics and lore connections, and certainly some dude that can't even understand basic english and read a description and draw proper conclusions won't convince me that's not true
>>733647746Kek
>>733657150>the friggin' Dark Moon So Light>The Elden Ring existed before Marika was even bornWrong, the Elden Ring is constantly reformed by communing at the Gate of Divinity, which is why it is always shaped differently and proceeds to fade as the Order ends>The Sun Realm didn't have an orderHilarious miss>>733656996Miss. While you are at it remind me again what color is the Dark Soul
>>733657150Fate as a concept probably aint even real bro. The people in the setting have just been getting own zoned by aliens since the dawn of time and they've internalized the idea that they can't do anything about it so they think the very paths of their lives are dictated by those ayys. A lot of stuff was happening when the stars and fate were technically locked. Its probably just a spook to keep people in line.
>>733657662>I can't understand it so it's not realCavemaxxing
>>733657317I see the human hands and feet, and it does have roots on its tail.But not seeing anything else, it looks like this.
>>733657381You keep projecting and calling others ESLs. One of the literal first things we're ever told about the Elden Ring is that it commands the stars. The premiere trailer narrator is talking about the Age of the Erdtree, the Golden Order before the main game begins, so the Golden Order's influence ALREADY reached and included the stars. Your theory doesn't add up. Goldmask is also standing on a bridge and T-posing at the Erdtree, so the Stargazer Ruins are not the monumental discovery you think they are. The Mountaintops are where the literal First Church of Marika is, they're within the Golden Order's influence. All of the Deathroot from Castle Sol's rituals seem to have cursed the place to the point where Death Rite Birds like it even during the day.Go reread the Nightreign interviews. The tree giants are not some secret of the Crucible planned all along. We also don't know if Rosus even exists, and those statues act as normal markers while others shine golden light that turns shadowy enemies back into their normal, solid selves. Rosus might be a figure the Golden Order made up or who otherwise works with them just fine.
>>733657580The Dark Moon has a literal black hole as its core. It might even just be a black hole devouring an unrelated moon it sometimes uses as a disguise. Your light theory is bogus. Farum Azula also didn't even need Enir-Ilim, the city seems to have functioned as its own kind of gate, and we know of two Mending Runes that are created and one that's found as a mathematical proof with no need for the Gate of "Divinity" at all. The Sun Realm is just an Altus civilization that had a castle outpost on the Mountaintops, it's probably an earlier version of Leyndell Marika conquered. Elden Ring's sun is the brightest thing around but doesn't bother to get involved. You're babbling nonsense about the Dark Soul's color now.
>>733657749I understand it. Radahn dies while fate is locked. What is fate to him?I became elden lord when it is everyone's fate to be subject to alien whims. What is fate to me?I killed the elden beast when it was in control of the elden ring. What was fate to the elden beast?Might makes right and the people of the lands between got cowed into thinking otherwise.
>>733657786The Elden Beast has a combination of fish fins, wings, and leaves on its back, along with dorsal fins on its tail. Its balance of the traits, along with its serpentine head, is reminiscent of the ancient dragons, and its internal name is Nebula Dragon to boot.
>>733658116>Elden Ring's sun is the brightest thing around but doesn't bother to get involved.It can't, the seat of the sun is empty. No one believes in the sun as a power anymore that is why Miquella's eclipse ritual fails there is no mechanism left to give it power because its culture got tanked.
>>733657580>What color is the dark soulWhat kind of retarded question is that? When the pygmy gets it, it's this tiny orange ember, but humanity, its shards looks like black sprites with white a white glow. Are you trying to do some weird "Black isn't a color :^)" shit you autistic schizo? Go sell your gay lore book already you've already put so much effort into your head canon.
>>733658216Pretty much, its mimicking the traits of the crucible that people in the lands between associate with power but it doesn't understand why as evidenced by its running away constantly in the fight.
>>733629056Goldmask was actually a nazi getting ready to do a Hitler salute.
>>733657880>You keep projecting and calling others ESLs.But you are>One of the literal first things we're ever told about the Elden Ring is that it commands the stars.It commands the Stars by drawing Fate in their stead, which is explained. It doesn't mean it affects them. This is your headcanon, just like you made up some nonsense about Goldmask caring about the War of the Giants.The Elden Ring upholds the Golden Order, and affects the Lands Between, controlling Fate>Goldmask is also standing on a bridge and T-posing at the Erdtree, so the Stargazer Ruins are not the monumental discovery you think they are.The fuck are you talking about?>The Mountaintops are where the literal First Church of Marika is, they're within the Golden Order's influence.No they are not, they are specifically outside the influence of the Erdtree, which is why it's there that the Banished Knights are enacting their ritual and Miquella chose to grow the Haligtree.It's also there that Death Night Birds and night bosses always spawn and it's there that spirits linger without being drawn to the Erdtree>All of the Deathroot from Castle Sol's ritualsMore headcanon nonsense
>>733658150>Radahn dies while fate is locked.Wrong>when it is everyone's fate to be subject to alien whimsHeadcanon
>>733658341The Elden Beast isn't aimlessly running away, it has various projectile skills and is smart enough to realize those are better used when not at close range.>>733658287The Japanese description for Lhutel's Spirit Ashes says that the ritual to revive her demi-god worked, so clearly the sun functions just fine. There's also the fact that the sun friggin' prevents the planet from freezing over all the time and daylight even seems to keep the strung-up bodies in Limgrave from suffering as much, along with preventing the Demi-Humans from going berserk. The sun is still strong and there, it just doesn't care.
>>733658580Its fine if you don't understand the fate concept in elden ring its made up anyway to keep people from fighting back against a system controlling them.
>>733658618kek lolcow is desperate to FUD
>>733658150Radahn dies after conquering the Stars, and controls his Fate instead of light doing that, which is why his soul follows the path of warrior death of Old instead of going to the Erdtree
>>733658328NTA but I’m really having a hard time understanding where you guys came to these conclusions? you guys are arguing nuance of the sun realm? The thing mentioned offhand in one shield description? What’s there something else? I realize I’m retarded but where do I even look for more information about this?
>>733658812>and controls his Fate instead of light doing that>becomes a mindless slavewhat is fate to Radahn?
>>733658863>>becomes a mindless slave Headcanon
>>733658825Meant for >>733658287
>>733658515The Elden Ring doesn't "draw fate in their stead", it just commands them outright. You're pulling this stuff out of your ass while also ignoring that the earliest Erdtree incantation is named Elden STARS. Use your eyes to see what Goldmask's pose is and where he's looking when he's on the Mountaintops. Castle Sol isn't outside the Golden Order's influence, the Banished Knights there heal with Two Fingers incantations. Miquella just picked Elphael for the Haligtree because it was far enough away to deter people who'd try to follow the persecuted groups to attack them, and so the Haligtree had space to grow. There's tons of Deathroot for the Death Rite Birds (look closely at the region around and leading to Castle Sol) and the Night's Cavalry are tasked with guarding a caravan, so they can't just fuck off if it's daytime.
>>733658825The game is about cultures forming central religions and that having power. The shield says the seat of the sun god is empty.You need to have graduated high school to understand elden ring lore.
>>733658825Other people have a knowledge base about esoterica that you do not. This game is about a demiurge you dingus.
>>733658825Some schizos think the Sun Realm is the key to some ultra-secret "true" plot despite all the evidence suggesting it was just an Altus civilization at one point after Farum Azula and Rauh fell. Marika probably got some of the population to join her and conquered the rest (killing the hero of Castle Morne's clan in the process) then banished any survivors down to Limgrave along with any other random Altus civilizations that didn't side with the Golden Order. Also, the Sun Realm is a clear nod to Dark Souls and how From Software is choosing to write a game with different themes and emphases this time.
>>733658863something he's trying to avoid given he resorts to cannibalism to fuel the great rune he holds keeping the rot contained.
Goldmask is inherently retarded because his thinking is rooted in Golden Order Fundamentalism, a retardation born out of realizing that the Golden Order doesn't make any sense because it was built on a lie. Anything built on that logic is worthless. The Fingers are brainless parasites and faking a connection to the divine, which is the real missing link to everything.Look at the other Golden Order fundamentalists in game: The Hunters of Those Who Live In Death, who abandoned fundamentalism in search of an absolute evil to contend withMiquella, who abandoned fundamentalism since it wouldn't cure MaleniaCorhyn, who abandons fundamentalism at the end of the game after seeing Goldmask go crazyThere's a reason Goldmasks ending is another palate swap, because its a trap
Ahhh.... rise now, ye tarnished
>>733658954>The Elden Ring doesn't "draw fate in their stead",Yeah it does, source: the description your ESL ass posted>it just commands them outright.You are moving the goalpost, you said the Elden Ring "affects the Stars", actively influences that. That is bullshit. The Elden Ring commands the Stars by fettering the Fate once writ upon them>while also ignoring that the earliest Erdtree incantation is named Elden STARSThe Erdtree being a Stars in itself does not mean it's all the Stars or actively controls or affects the other Stars. This is your headcanon and nothing in games says this, just like you completely made up the War of the Giants being of interest to Goldmask>Castle Sol isn't outside the Golden Order's influenceYes it is>the Banished Knights there heal with Two Fingers incantations.And?>Miquella just picked Elphael for the Haligtree because it was far enough away to deter people who'd try to follow the persecuted groups to attack themSource: your ass>There's tons of Deathroot for the Death Rite BirdsWrong>and the Night's Cavalry are tasked with guarding a caravan, so they can't just fuck off if it's daytime.Wrong, they appears because it's always "Night" there
>>733659292Goldmask's quest is about realizing that even GOF is bullshit and the system doesn't work, then finding something that actually will work and fulfill accountability, support, and basic human decency.
>>733658328Funny, that wasn't what you said the other day when you told me the Dark Soul is black because you never watched the intro to the game :)
>>733659169I think its just 1 guy that is obsessed with godwyn and refuses to not make headcanon up to compensate.
>>733659292Nonsensical headcanon>>733659389Wrong
>>733659169>>733659529>>733658825What color is the Dark Soul?
>>733659613Why did you link me fagola? Not part of your purity spiral.
It's hilarious when he samefagsWhat color is the Dark Soul?
>>733659348The Elden Ring fetters the stars because it can directly influence them and rein them in as needed. The Golden Order already accounts for and includes the stars, it doesn't use some lightbending hijacking. If one of the foundations of the Golden Order is itself related to stars, then clearly the Golden Order naturally includes stars and doesn't need a Mending Rune to achieve that. To better spell out the Castle Sol thing for you, if the people staffing it uses GO-approved incantations, then it's a GO-influenced place. Look at the pilgrimage route to Elphael and how big the Erdtree and Haligtree are to see that the location was for security and practicality. Loretta's trek to Elphael is even noted as arduous. You're failing to recognize the Deathroot amidst the snow and brambles. Why the fuck would the Night's Cavalry ditch the caravan they're escorting just because it's day? They don't have to Tree Sentinels to tag in, they're obviously not going to fuck off and ditch the caravan.
Only the truest lore TRVTHBOMBS here
>>733659613What does that have to do with Elden Ring? Everyone who played Dark Souls knows that the titular Dark Soul looked different when the Furtive Pygmy found it compared to whatever happened to make it have the appearance it does when the main story begins. That's 100% irrelevant, you're a fool and you do this too often to likely be joking. Seek help.
>>733659773Poor guy's been suffering lately, something terrible must have happened to him irl
>>733629056If you just equal fascism with totalitarianism, then his ending probably fits. What Goldmask wants is an utterly unchangeable structure to reality's rules, and believes that there is a perfect Order or system that he understands that everyone should obey. This doesn't mean that he wants to murder non-believers. It means that if you want to support another God other than the Greater Will, however, you're SOL. Goldmask is still a Golden Order Fundamentalist in the end. What he wants is a perfect Golden Order that even Marika and Radagon can't fuck with.This also means that things excluded by the Order are going to be forced to find a convergence with it. Not through genocide, because Goldmask opposed that. But instead all heresies are going to be compelled to reidentify within the scope of the Golden Order. Evil cannot exist within Goldmask's Fundamentalism, in the sense that everything is made to be a part of the Golden Order with no escape.
>>733658825What the Sun Realm schizo does, is he takes very vague lore descriptions and creates a massive narrative around them to create intentionally alternate views that conflict with commonly accepted ideas.For example, most people assume via Golden Epitaph that Miquella wanted to give Godwyn a true death. Most of his items show he was trying to be a good guy but failing. This is reinforced with his quest in the DLC to bring in an age of compassion.SunRealm Schizo looks at that and concludes there is a secret story about how Ranni sabotaged Miquella with the night of black knives to intentionally cause Godwyn to be Prince of Death so that Miquella would lose access to the Hephen Lampwood. Golden Epitaph was designed to destroy Godwyn not out of mercey, but because Miquella could not steal the "light of the Hephen" for the Haligtree with a new prince of death in his path, because something about the old one which he claims was Rosus being indisposed?Or at least that's what I recall his schizo ramblings were about.See what he did? He takes basic shit and just comes up with needlessly complex shit based on misconstrued item descriptions.Everyone has a secret important lore arc hidden in the armor reliefs and stone etchings. Every Flower a symbol telling you about Miranda or the crucible. Every slightly twisted plant some sort of conduit for the divine. You're>just too low IQTo understand.
>>733659025No, Miyazacki does not require you to understand William Blake's satirical religion to understand Elden Ring you fucking nigger.
>>733660051He'll do anything to make everything about godwyn because he simply hasn't played the game to see godwyn's ending route.
>>733659426What are you talking about retard? Meds, now.
>>733660107Who is that?
>>733659729>The Elden Ring fetters the stars because it can directly influence them, also Goldmask implements fascism (anti-God fascism) by t-posing near where Giants died for no reason. This is your theory, an headcanon, completely unsourced, nonsensical>The Elden Ring fetters the stars because its starlight, which is what commands Fate, shines over the Stars the Astrologers used to gaze upon, and Goldmask specifically conjoins the two by traveling to a place where Starlight can be seen and using Fundamentalism Light studies to create a mending Rune that extends the Order to Stars besides the Erdtree, expanding the Order beyond the control of Sacred Trees grown from GoddessesThis is the truth which I discovered by paying attention to the game and not being a fucking retard like you.Not even reading the rest now>>733659894Lol and tell me again, how many souls do humans have?
>>733645119Marika didn't have an ideology or teach others about her stuff. She wanted to investigate the depths of what it meant to be a Goddess for her own sake. Radagon ran a scholastic tradition.
>>733660219English poet and painter who invented a satire religion that Urizen, posted here>>733660150is from.
>>733660150>godwyn's endingWe've known Godwyns ending from when the game came outIts a fish tail because he don't have no legs
>>733659613>Dark Soul is a tiny tiny little ember at the peak of the First Flames strength>inverts into a black hole "flame" of extreme power years down the line.Kino.
>>733660391>Marika didn't have an ideology or teach others about her stuff.She formed an entire religion about it. GO holy books are scholarly while being retarded. >>733660402What does he have to do with elden ring?
>>733659995I'm not sure Goldmask has any idea about the Greater Will, maybe the Fingers but Marika is the predominant faith within the Lands Between and even a lot of Tarnished seemingly have no idea or just don't care about the Greater Will.
>>733640996Man does not have a place in making a choice in Goldmask's world. No one gets a choice. The Golden Order is made totally inpermiable and heresy against it is brought under its canopy as a mere contrivance against the system.
>>733660391No, both Marika and Radagon wanted to investigate the metaphysics around Light, which is what Fundamentalism is about. The Pull between things and pull of meaning. Marika wanted to investigate the origin of the Elden Ring by tracing divinity communed within it through Law of Regression, which is why it regresses to its primordial form in the end.Shame this shatters the headcanons about evil space aliens many made out of Elden Beast
>>733660290Where are you getting the idea that I think Goldmask implements fascism? Nothing he does is about that, and he goes to the Mountaintops to observe that the Golden Order and Marika massacred the Fire Giants for no justifiable reason, emphasizing how fickle and shitty Marika and the Golden Order are. Starlight can be seen anywhere in the Lands Between, the Stargazer Ruins aren't special at all in that regard, even the Stargazers themselves left and moved to Liurnia, hence Rennala living there. Your babbling about Dark Souls is irrelevant and you seem to think I'm someone you had a debate with in a Dark Souls thread over a completely unrelated theory.
>>733660576>>733660549>>733660539>>733660391More headcanons by retards
>>733660539>What does he have to do with elden ring?His works were used to worldbuild eldden ring. If you are in these threads long enough you'll recognize the guy that seethes over anons knowing the sources for a lot of elden ring stuff.
>>733660589>and he goes to the Mountaintops to observe that the Golden Order and Marika massacred the Fire Giants for no justifiable reason,Wrong>Starlight can be seen anywhere in the Lands BetweenWrong and actively contradicting what you postedIt's hilarious
>>733660549I assume that it is known in the same way that the Japs know about gods like Inazami or Izanagi or the Greeks knew about Erebus or Chaos. Like they're known, but they're too far away to care about. I say this because Bernahl (not an intellectual) bitches about the Greater Will and wants to fight it, but talks about the Erdtree as his target elsewhere. Its known to be higher up the ladder, but so far off that most don't care.
>>733660391The scholastic stuff was helmed by Marika too. Radagon just created a small handful of stuff, with the most notable being something he just based on presents Miquella gave him as a way to distract Miquella after out leaving GOF for unalloyed gold research.
The big reveal in DaS is that humanity is the soul of humans and that the "white" souls within them are just gwyn's cuck shackles.
>>733653505>le man is... le bad!YOU are the man, nigga. People working together, no longer ruled by blind forces but by themselves, forging their own fates... Peak kino.
>>733660793Probably the case, especially if you're around the Roundtable Hold for long enough to know that the Greater Will abandoned the planet WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY long ago
>>733660729Goldmask's discoveries are that the Golden Order is fickle and arbitrarily designates things as ultimate evils to massacre. The war against the Fire Giants is one of the most clear examples of this behavior by the Golden Order. Starlight can be seen by looking at the sky in Elden Ring during the day (the sun) or the night (every other star). Bonus points for Liurnia, which has the sun AND every other star up during the day.
>>733629056Because he ACK's trannies out of the Golden Order, knowing they don't belong.This has nothing to do with fascism btw, but loretubers are mentally ill troons.
>>733660539Nothing, except one single painting of a scholar that looks a bit like Raya Lucaria.Elden Ring has a lot of Alchemical imagery, none of which is needed to understand the plot. Yet whoever keeps posting the Blake paintings clearly thinks the satire religion is relevant to the game. Urizen is a vaguely demiurge esque character in Blake's works, albiet more of a "traitor" like Lorkhan in TeS than the Demiurge is, if not a Prometheus esque character. So I think the schizo just abuses some of the gnostic references to push the idea that the game is secretely an homage to Blake's mythology.
Anyway, The rite of Kindling and humanity descriptions which states>Rare tiny black sprite found on corpses. Use to gain 1 humanity and restore a large amount of HP.>This black sprite is called humanity, but little is known about its true nature.>If the soul is the source of all life, then what distinguishes the humanity we hold within ourselves?Imply that within the setting, humanity is considered useless and mysterious as humans were taught the Soul was the source of all life.Because various undead also have white souls (I.E Soul of a Hero) and these descriptions, we can presume humans have 2 souls, as it is revealed in DaS's climax that humanity is a shard of the Dark Soul and source of immense power that collectively could put humans are the level of gods, especially as the fire fades.It's then revealed in dark souls III that Gwyn objectively sealed the dark soul in Fire, which is the source of the Dark Sign, resulting in the curse.
>>733660051I think Golden Epitaph was a red herring. The lord brother he's referring to is Radahn. He needs Radahn to die a true death.
>>733660681>Over anons knowing the source of>anonsWait a second, that vaguely third world phrasing....Quick, someone call upon Dragonirian to humiliate this poster, NOW!
>>733660539>>733660587>>733660819Golden Order Fundamentalism is Radagon's baby. Marika didn't really teach shit in the same way. Marika's personal investigations and Radagon's scholastic tradition are different things. This is why Marika's incants, the Erdtree Incantations, are a different school from Radagon's incants, the Golden Order Incantations.
>>733644586You clearly don't because the demiurge is the creator of the material universe.
>>733660981Don't forget all the written works. >>733661060what the fuck is that nonsense?
>>733647801fuck mother earth too then, rev up your coal engine you unintegrated faggoid-to-be
>>733661067They're different schools because they serve different purposes. Radagon doesn't even use GOF incantations in his boss fight, he clearly doesn't actually care. Miquella has the Discus of Light and Radagon's Rings of Light in the DLC, meaning that Radagon gets outdone in that regard by his son even after his son ditched GOF.
>>733660973>Goldmask's discoveries are that the Golden Order is fickle and arbitrarily designates things as ultimate evils to massacreMaybe this is what you meant but it is very important to distinguish that Goldenmask didn’t discover the Golden Order was fickle and discriminatory, it was the gods “no better than man” that misrepresented what the Golden Order was. There is a quote from the game where his discovery amounted to “the gods were the fly in the ointment all along” so he wants to cut them out of the equation
>>733661110>what the fuck is that nonsense?We're at the point in the thread where everyone starts making fun of the lolcow that has been desperately trying to get reactions. the second post in this very thread is a webm making fun of the lolcow so this has been ordained already.
>>733630940Yes, obviously. Goldmask and the Turtle Pope are on an ideological wavelength with one another. When you hear the Turtle Pope talk about heresy being an illusion, Goldmask would say the same thing. The distinction is that Goldmask less libertarian than the Turtle Pope in the form of actively wanting to instate a global ideology that locks in his view, where the Turtle Pope is comfy being a lone pastor.
>>733660973>Goldmask's discoveries are [headcanon nonsense]Nope, try again with a source
>>733661174Marika/the gods built and ran the Golden Order, thus the order had a terrible flaw too, a la the hunters. Those flaws would have to be removed and/or solved to create an actually good, just, healthy society.
>>733661110>Double post, one post being a "Rational observation" the other being dissmisal>>733661186>Followed by a samefag post explaining the "culprit"Guys, screen cap this. Eric was the Sun Realm schizo the entire time. Holy shit this is a virtual gold mine. It really is and always has been one fag the entire time!
>>733661224Read Order Healing's item description and everything to do with the Fire Giants.
>>733661174What's interesting in that decision is that Goldmask's complaint about an institution devoted to serving the whims and rules of their god, is that their god isn't perfect and shouldn't have a place in it. Goldmask himself is a reference to Plato in that regard because his desire is for a platonic ideal of the Golden Order and enforcing that upon reality, but I also think the point of his character is that the platonic ideal of a god is an extremely silly notion in a setting with living, dead, and active gods, and that Goldmask himself is very accurately portrayed as completely incoherent if not outright offensive to everybody in the setting.You can pick away all the Golden Order's flaws but you'll be left with nothing if you do that. It was a temple built for Marika and he wants Marika out of it. He's delusional, in short, if not violently insane by the standards of the game
>>733639524>>733637252The issue is that there are any number of reasons a person might reject the Golden Order and Goldmask makes no allowance for any of them. If heresy is but a contrivance, then heretics are but misled and need to be corrected and taught better. Meaning that no disagreement is allowed and instead is met with patronizing correction backed with the weight of the Elden Ring.
The big reveal in DaS is that humanity is the soul of humans and that the "white" souls within them are just gwyn's cuck shackles.Going hollow is being simultaneously linked to the fire and being immortal but losing your own soul in the process.The humanity isn't "Eating" your white soul, your own soul in general is being consumed probably by the Dark sign itself.I swear people don't catch all the subtle shit in DaS. Estus is warmth from the bonfire, the bonfire heals you. You can collect thousands of souls and humanity but it does nothing until you toss it in the fire.That's the actual curse, the curse of being linked directly to a supernatural flame.A bonfire in of itself is just a bunch of undead boned lynch pined with a coiled sword, the "fire" was in the undead the whole time.
>>733661174nta, but the problem is that Goldmasks final revelation of the Gods getting in the way of the Golden Order was diminished by the discovery that the Fingers, who would have been the remaining agents of the Golden Order, were hallucinating aliens who relayed visions that they never received. So basically the silent guy who only talks in Finger language is saying that only the Fingers should have control of the Golden Order because of inconsistencies from the GO's founding caused by the Fingers lying about receiving the GW's inspiration.
>>733629152It already does, dumbass. Don’t need to force dao it just is.
>>733661405You didn't understand shit, impressive>>733661353>J-just look at it yourselfLol
>>733661186Looks like he's really get pissed at you lol.
>>733661415Anyway, The rite of Kindling and humanity descriptions which states>Rare tiny black sprite found on corpses. Use to gain 1 humanity and restore a large amount of HP.>This black sprite is called humanity, but little is known about its true nature.>If the soul is the source of all life, then what distinguishes the humanity we hold within ourselves?Imply that within the setting, humanity is considered useless and mysterious as humans were taught the Soul was the source of all life.Because various undead also have white souls (I.E Soul of a Hero) and these descriptions, we can presume humans have 2 souls, as it is revealed in DaS's climax that humanity is a shard of the Dark Soul and source of immense power that collectively could put humans are the level of gods, especially as the fire fades.It's then revealed in dark souls III that Gwyn objectively sealed the dark soul in Fire, which is the source of the Dark Sign, resulting in the curse.
>>733661405Goldmask seems less focused on the authority of the Golden Order and more focused on the fundamental laws of reality and them actually doing good things for all people. It's less "King X gives people drinking water" and more "People have drinking water.">>733661437The Two Fingers are part of the same terrible system, they even pick god candidates, so they're booted too.
A lot of people don't seem to understand runes and the Elden Ring itself. It is essentially the rulebook for the universe and you can rewrite it with the right tools. The mending runes fundamentally alter the nature of reality. The Death-Prince rune rewrites the ring so that instead of reincarnation (as it was before the shattering), undeath is now the normal state for people.The Fell Curse rune rewrites it so that everybody born from here on out will possess the omen curse, making it normal.The Perfect Order rune is less clear, it says more about what is wrong than how the rune will actually fix it. The original Japanese description reads more accurately as>The imperfection of the present Golden Orderwas, in other words, a wavering of perspective.>A god who possesses a heart like that of man is unnecessary, and was a flaw in the Order.I think the key is in the icon itself: a shield around the ring. This rune seeks to cut off the lands between from the outer gods, all of them. Goldmask has realized that the "gods" are fickle and petty and have probably done more harm than good. But the ideals and philosophy espoused by the Golden Order are something he holds in high regard, so the belief is that if we can rewrite the Elden Ring to shield TLB from any further influence by malevolent entities, the Order can flourish unhindered.
>>733661159They serve different purposes because the creators had different intentions. Marika spreads here godly power without care for teaching others, because she's self-centered in that way. Radagon created a system that could be taught and which contained instructions on understanding the ideology within it. Miquella is the one that started turning it into an ideology for war, because he was always more violent than his father.
the revelation in DaS is that hollows are the natural state of humans and they never had a soul to start with. so once the concept of a soul was born into the world with the flame, hollows craved it. gwyn himself was a hollow that just so happened upon a soul and decided to keep it instead of share it like the pygmy. from there the world is a spiraling tragedy of disparity.
>>733661437>nta, but the problem is [HEADCANON] [HEADCANON] [HEADCANON]>so basically [HEADCANON] [HEADCANON] [HEADCANON]
>>733629204imagine if pvp implemented a rolling stamina penalty so it couldn't be abused
>>733661475If I posted all of the item descriptions it'd take several posts. Go read them yourself, ideally by playing the actual game. Order Healing is a big one on its own, get started.
>>733661696I don't think Goldmask gives even a morsel of a shit about the people at large, personally; the little scraps of lore he gets are about removing the zoroastrian "absolute good vs. their horrible monsters and evil" element of the Golden Order, chiefest the current conflict against Those Who Live In Death since fundamentalists pivoted to being undead hunters. The conclusion he comes to is just that the Golden Order should be an objective reality even gods can't touch, after all. He's obsessed with the institution but doesn't like its founder and her upper management.
>>733644157The demiurge is the craftsman of the material world. In Gnosticism they hate it because they believe that the spiritual world precedes the material world and is a much better place to exist in. The Elden Beast isn't a demiurge because it doesn't make anything. It is a guard dog protecting the system the Greater Will left behind on Earth. Now, I don't necessarily believe the Greater Will created the material world in Elden Ring, but if it did, it'd be the Demiurge.
Settle down, Eric
>>733661437Who says they were hallucinating or any of that, genuinely asking. The game treats Goldenmask as pretty enlightened and probably has the best understanding of the Greater Will/Golden Order and he determined the fly in the ointment was the gods no better than man, Marika was made vessel but over time misrepresented what the Golden Order should have been because of her cruelty or whatever you want to call it. Goldenmask’s ending is basically the same as Ranni’s they’re cutting them out of gods out of the picture the fingers never seemed to have any interest in exerting control over the people they wouldn’t sit on a throne faith would probably become pretty similar to the real world, aside from some magical elements like erdtree burials
>>733661701WrongThe Age of Duskborn is an Order that embeds Death in the Elden Ring, so all Souls of those who imbibed Erdtree sao return to their bodies after DeathThe Age of the Duskborn is an Order that carriea the curse of the Fell Omen as a Pox in the Elden Ring. As such all those imbibed with Erdtree sap become curse, and the curse become a blessing, and souls resonate from horns and new people are born through thisThe Age of Perfect Order is an Order that expands Golden Order to both the Erdtree and the other Stars, binding all Souls together in an Order of trascendental ideologyThe Order endings don't "rewrite" the world, that's another headcanon. They affect the Fate of those bound to the Elden Ring
>>733661716Radagon turned the Moonlight Greatsword into the Golden Order Greatsword (which requires no INT), probably created a weapon buff based on it, and created Litany and Rings of Light. Miquella created frisbee boomerangs. The only things Radagon contributed were based on violence. Marika probably created Law of Causality and Law of Regression, or Miquella did along with Immutable Shield. Marika would have to teach others so they could learn anything of value to her. Radagon just seeks the standard Golden Order and wants to cement himself back in it.
>>733661817>Just trust me broYeah right, see >>733660290
>>733662042Shadow of the Erdtree heavily implies the Two Fingers *never* had word of the Greater Will because their progenitor Finger entity, Metyr, lost contact almost immediately after she was planted. Basegame heavily implies that they *lost contact* with the Greater Will a very, very, very long time ago and that even the deathless age of Marika and resultant agelessness/immortality of everyone in the Lands Between wouldn't be long enough for them to get an answer back after the Elden Lord game with the Tarnished fell apart. In basegame it's very vague on if they *ever* had contact. Therefore, basegame implies that Goldmask is a hallucinatory crank by extension of the Two Fingers; SOTE outright confirms it.
>>733662061>The Age of the Duskborn*Despair>>733662005The big reveal in DaS is that humanity is the soul of humans and that the "white" souls within them are just gwyn's cuck shackles. Going hollow is being simultaneously linked to the fire and being immortal but losing your own soul in the process. The humanity isn't "Eating" your white soul, your own soul in general is being consumed probably by the Dark sign itself. I swear people don't catch all the subtle shit in DaS. Estus is warmth from the bonfire, the bonfire heals you. You can collect thousands of souls and humanity but it does nothing until you toss it in the fire. That's the actual curse, the curse of being linked directly to a supernatural flame. A bonfire in of itself is just a bunch of undead boned lynch pined with a coiled sword, the "fire" was in the undead the whole time.
>>733662202You can't even find Order Healing on your own, so here's the relevant info for you, find the Fire Giant stuff yourself:"The noble Goldmask lamented what had become of the hunters. How easy it is for learning and learnedness to be reduced to the ravings of fanatics; all the good and the great wanted, in their foolishness, was an absolute evil to contend with.Does such a notion exist in the fundamentals of Order?"
>>733662263>Shadow of the Erdtree heavily implies the Two Fingers *never* had word of the Greater Will because their progenitor Finger entity, Metyr, lost contact almost immediately after she was planted.Source: your ass>Basegame heavily implies that they *lost contact* with the Greater Will a very, very, very long time agoNo, the base game implies that Metyr lost contact when she was wounded by those who would later become the Nox, and then we see Metyr with a gaping wound on its right tit
>>733644909I agree that Radagon and Marika are separate people. And I agree that Marika underwent the Jar Ritual. But I don't think they were separate from the start. I think he's just her St. Trina or Millicent. But created with intention and created to be autonomous from her to do what she couldn't as a Goddess bound to the Erdtree.
>>733662426>base game implies that Metyr Metyr doesn't exist at all in the basegame.
>>733662447I don't think Millicent is a similar entity, personally, she's defined as kind of an offshoot or clone of Malenia alongside several other "valkyries"Nightreign is interesting for being the only non-Malenia usage of the term "valkyries" with the Balancers boss(es) in its own DLC where they seem to be young girls twisted into adult warriors by the weaponry they carry
>>733662097Nah, the Law of XYZ incants are Radagon's. He probably developed them from experience with the Turtle Pope. We learn everything about Radagon through him. It is reasonable to assume they had a strong relationship together. Regression and Convergence are the Turtle Pope's two big things.
>>733662350Except the Fundamentalism hunters are zealots that go after Those who Live in Death, and this has NOTHING to do withThis is the actual full description>One of the incantations of the Golden Order fundamentalists.>Used by hunters of Those Who Live in Death.>Alleviates death blight buildup.>The noble Goldmask lamented what had become of the hunters.>How easy it is for learning and learnedness to be reduced to theravings of fanatics; all the good and the great wanted, in theirfoolishness, was an absolute evil to contend with.>Does such a notion exist in the fundamentals of Order? You lack the IQ to understand Elden Ring. Don't feel bad about it a lot of people are too stupid for that
>>733645216>first burning of the ErdtreeSomeone would have mentioned this if it happened. The idea that the Erdtree burnt once and everyone forgot that it happened is silly.
>>733629056Lore youtubers also think Ranni's ending will be 100% good with no drawbacks and that she isn't a murderer somehow because cute girl.
>>733629056You could take this guy out of the game and it would not affect a single thing
>>733662481But the Nox do, and so does the Fingerslayer Blade>>733662447>But I don't think they were separate from the startYes they were.Marika created Radagon with the Rune of the Unborn. They are nothing like St. Trina, that is not meant to be separate and is a flower specifically because of that
why do not you guys talk about the nightreign
>>733662640Causality and Regression is supposed to be GOF's main thing overall, it got sidetracked by things relating to the hunters.>>733662650It's about how the Golden Order, even the Fundamentalists, were/became mere raving fanatics who wanted someone to fight against rather than to actually bring and maintain goodness. Why do you post nonsense and Fextralife images?
>>733647015It can't remove Marika. The problem with the Golden Order system is that it binds everyone in it. Marika is bound, the Two Fingers are bound, the Elden Beast is bound, none can escape and when one fucks the system up, Marika, the other two can punish her, but they can't change or fix it from the inside. Otherwise they'd have ejected Marika entirely and started over.
>>733662705They didn't forget, it's mentioned by Bernahl's armor (not the helmet) and the fact he can reach Farum Azula.
>>733662710>she isn't a murdererActual Elden Ring players understand that Ranni isn't a murderer because she hasn't murdered anyone
>>733662819>why do not you guys talk about the nightreignTry again, ESL>>733662847You lost
>>733662974You're jumping at shadows and saying nonsense.
>>733662936Alexander reached Farum Azula, it isn't that special. His armor talks about his maiden failing.
>>733663112Bernahl's Finger Maiden burned herself at the Forge of the Fire Giants. Alexander only got to Farum Azula by burning himself in the Forge after he trained to specifically resist high temperatures, no one else could have done that method but him, save for maybe a fireproof Gelmir Man-Serpent.
>>733645741There is zero way that the Dominula clothes represent the Elden Beast.
>>733663109Lol>>733645741>At the end of the day [HEADCANON]kek
>>733646536Bloodborne being feminist because it uses rape and periods as sources of horror is one of the dumbest new trends I've seen. Like a bunch of middle aged Japanese men sat around saying, "You know whats gross? Women bleeding from their vaginas.", and then made a game about it, and 10 years later Redditors are posting about how it is a feminist narrative.
>>733648193What if I don't like his order?
>>733662974Nightreign is for many hours of play. Which console do you play? Do you have subscriptions?
>>733662807>Marika created Radagon with the Rune of the Unborn.>They are nothing like St. TrinaHuh????????????????????????????????????
>>733662273What are you even doing at this point Eric? What's with the unreleated DaS post you're spamming? What does that have to do with Elden Ring? You should really take your meds.
>>733661716>Marika spreads here godly power without care for teaching othersWhy do you think this?You start the game with her healing spells if you play a faith guy. They literally call their holy books textbooks.
>>733663448You are brain damaged amerimutt that can only think of fascism and politics.The Order is a representation of a cycle of Life and Death. Goldmask is saving the Lands Between by including in the cyclw of life and death all who were left at the fringe, unable to receive their Fate from Stars, in an Order that can't be controlled and manipulated by a Goddess. This is not mundane politics and he is not conquering or forcing any change on anybody.
>>733662921>The problem with the Golden Order system is that it binds everyone in it.There are multiple factions that aren't in the GO and say fuck the GO, some of them exist solely to destroy her hegemony.
>>733662819Too busy playing it
>>733663745wild headcanonwonder how it will change when you actually play the game
>>733663745Turns out those people outside the GO were being saved already. Their body dies and their spirit and runes return to the earth and filter into something else instead of being absorbed into a tree ending the cyclical movement of life and death.
>>733663627What's confusing about it, ESL?
>>733663745>This is not mundane politics and he is not conquering or forcing any change on anybody.He's a Tarnished out to claim Elden Lord status and assume control over the Elden Ring, he is very literally doing that by divine order.
>>733662807Marika wouldn't need the Rune of the Unborn to do that.The Rune of the Unborn allows reincarnation, not division. St. Trina pre-existed being cut off by Miquella, so there was a time where she was full and humanoid. The difference is that Miquella as the dominant personality expelled St. Trina as a partial person rather than a whole one. Where Radagon was made to be physically whole from the start (only empty internally to the point that he had an obsession with completeness).
>>733663834Radagon wasn't made by the rune of the unborn. Marika compartmentalized a personality that would aid her ruling and the elden beast used its empty quality to fill him with GO mores.
>>733663627Sun Realm Schizo/Eric believes Marika created Radagon using the amber egg, because little ghost larval tears exist in the shadowlands and because the cut content silver tear lady becomes the Lord of Night. Therefore, all silver tears are artificial seeds for "lords" with the original seeds being the ghost ones you find in the DLC, and Marika specifically used them to make Radagon.Eric is just schizoing. He has a different LARP for every game. In Baldur's Gate he glazes Larian to the point of absurdity.In Elden Ring threads, he larps as a lore master and makes up insane fanfiction so you disagree with him, or he screams about Dragonirian being OP.He does the latter less because it gets less (you)s than saying absurd shit like that.
>>733663834Calling me an ESL doesn't suddenly mean what you've posted is not headcanon with nothing to back it up, especially the St. Trina connection to Radagon as an Empyrean's opposite-gender counterpart, something expressed even with Placidusax and his male and female heads.
>>733663826>Turns out those people outside the GO were being saved already.No they weren't>Their body dies and their spirit and runes return to the earth No they don't, which is why sorcerers embed their soul into glintstone to return to the Stars and the Eternal Cities made the Moon to offer guidance foe their Fate.Perfect Order also doesn't force Erdtree burial. It expands the Order to the Stars, which means all people in the Lands Between can find their Fate towards the Star it is bound to. It trascends ideology and is beyond the control of a singular divine entity through any Sacred Tree.
>>733663168We have no idea if she reached the Forge of the Giants. In fact, she probably didn't. We don't know how Alexander got there. He could have burnt himself, but the idea that there is a canonical teleporter between the Forge and Farum Azula that anyone could hop through is silly. It is basically a mysterious contrivance for the player how they got there. In-game there are already two ways that the player knows of to get to Farum Azula, the warp after the Forge, and through the Belfies. There could easily be more. How else did the random Crucible Knights get there?
>>733664015>Perfect Order also doesn't force Erdtree burial. It expands the Order to the Stars, I think you are very heavily confusing or conflating the point of Goldmask's ending with the point of Ranni's ending. Who knew Goldmask was secretly a Carian astrologer this entire time and believed in the stars guiding fate.
>>733662943She murdered Godwyn pretty hard
>>733664000>especially the St. Trina connection to Radagon as an Empyrean's opposite-gender counterpartHeadcanon>Radagon is like Trina, a severed identity that becomes a flower Headcanon>Radagon is mimicry of Marika that came out of nowhere but also happens to have the Rune of the Unborn and be related to the Primordial Crucible/Ancient Erdtree/GiantsFacts
>>733663975The sad thing is almost all of his arguments rely on cut content or intentionally mistranslating the japanese or implying everything is sourced in buddhism.He's like a broken record that spins on repeat constantly. He knows he's wrong too. If you are a lore faggot like we all are you know exactly how much he has to know about the lore correctly to then warp it into the nonsense he claims. >>733664015People that aren't part of the GO don't get buried in erdtree burials so the primal essence of why they are goes on past death into other things. People in the GO get eaten up by tree roots and then the tree shits their body out as root resin and produces a sunflower. What they are as an entity stops. There is a grand movement going on with life and death that is 'natural' and the GO perverts it.
>>733664085>but the idea that there is a canonical teleporter between the Forge and Farum Azula that anyone could hop through is silly.Maybe not so silly, there's a rough implication that Hoarah Loux got back to Leyndell through the teleporter in the Weeping Peninsula since that's where his campaign across the Lands Between ended
>>733663834NTA. Marika and Radagon are separate entities who switch back at will. When the Rune of unborn is used, the player doesn’t become someone else. The appearance changes but everyone still recognizes us as the same tarnished
>>733664137cool youtube story brotoo bad its headcanon
>>733663758By in it, I mean the admin team that runs the server. Marika, the Two Fingers, and the Elden Beast are the moderators of the Golden Order program. Who have the ability to reach into the source code and fuck with it or give admin access to others. The problem is that none of them have the right to fire the other. So when one moderator fucks up the program the other two can put them in lockdown but not revoke access, so instead they're left in stasis with malfunctioning code.
>>733664137Black Knives did that. She enabled them but didn't do it herself, big difference. Plus, hell, the call was coming from inside the house; Black Knife Assassins are supposed to be Numen "of the same stock as Marika" and their Black Knives look like heavily warped Blades of Calling, and are still Sacred weapons.
>>733664137Radagon murdered Godwyn
why does he eat caca doe
>>733664179Same entity actually. Marika is Radagon. Go look thru every line of text in the game during the Liurnian wars where Radagon was walking around, you won't find 1 reference to Marika at all like she magically disappeared. Then she shows back up when Radagon goes away. Its literally a "have you ever seen Marika and Radagon in the same room?" tier understanding and its still filtering you.
>>733664313trvth
.
>>733664224If you do Rogier’s questline you can get her to admit it>Indeed, I am the witch Ranni. I stole a fragment of the Rune of Death, and used it to forge the godslaying black knives through fearsome rite.>I did it all.Unless you think because she didn’t literally drive the knife in technically she isn’t murderer, but I don’t think that’s how the concept of murder works
>>733664172Yeah he does a decent job of starting his arguments with something everyone agrees with or is aware of, so he knows the actual lore. It's just by the second part of it he just starts inserting his schizo nonsense.It was better when Elden Ring was new and his schizo shit was constantly trying to accuse everyone mad about Seamless Co-OP of being a collection of trannies or Dragonirian. Now he's dedicated to this (you) farm with disastrous results.
>>733664327Larping as an Omen really fucking hard
>>733664268>The problem is that none of them have the right to fire the other.Ask yourself why the 2 fingers spell list is all defensive buffs then mysteriously has 3 spells named >darkness>shadow bait>assassin's approachThe shadow system is broken and doesn't work but the fingers being the real power players pulling the strings is clear.
>>733664431Nobody argues that Hewg killed the Elden Beast just because he made your +25 weapon, ergo Ranni is as culpable for Godwyn's death as Hewg is for Radagon's/Marika's and the Elden Beast's.
>>733664346Marika isn’t a schizophrenic transformer. They are two beings that cannot exist in the same space at the same time. One shows up and takes over. They are constantly are at odds with each other.
>>733664552>>Indeed, I am the smith Hewg. I took a fragment of immortal dragon scales, and used it to forge the godslaying weapons through steady hammer tapping.>I did it all.But no one calls him Hewg, slayer of the Elden Beast....
>>733664440Marika sinned bigly during the crusades lol, he's got a good reason to be mad but he lost the plot. >>733664609They share a body anon, you see it in the opening and the cutscene at the end. We all put on faces, the world is a stage and we are all actors.
>>733664552Yeah I guess that’s true.. she only planned the whole thing, hired the assassins, stole the rune of death and then made the knives
>>733664119No, I'm correct as usual. The only one mixing up things is you. Ranni does not implement Order in any form. With Ranni there's no cycle of life after death which binds souls to their spiritual form. Beings live and die, returning only spiritgraves, to be cause new births again
>>733664727>she only planned the whole thing, hired the assassins, No>stole the rune of death and then made the knivesYes
>>733664552>Nobody argues that Hewg killed the Elden Beast just because he made your +25 weaponI do, the weapon to kill a god was the player not the weapons. You don't need a max tier weapon to beat the elden beast, but (you) are always there.
>>733664609She was caught talking to herself by Melina's spirit.
>>733664719Anon I’m fully aware they occupy the same space. But they aren’t the same. This isn’t shapeshifting. Radagon is a separate being. One becomes a trapped spectator while the other dominates.
>>733664778>she only planned the whole thing, hired the assassins,>NoOk I’m curious to hear your explanation lol she made the knives, and then they were stolen and someone else did her plan for her?
>>733664609Headcanon>>733664346Headcanon>>733664719Headcanon>>733664172People that aren't "part"of the Golden Order, meaning they didn't partake in taking Erdtree Sap, have their Fate bound to different Stars or rarely to other Outer Gods, like the Twinbird. Now those who have their Fate bound to other Stars can't see it writ upon the sky due to the fettering of the Erdtree. And Goldmask fixes that. There's no fascist takeover, no controlling of anything. This is Red*it headcanon by retards that can only understand things through the most mundane banality of generalizationsAlso quit samefagging. It's pathetic
>>733664778>Nocompletely retarded
>>733655893>>733656229>>733657381The Elden Ring clearly has influence over cosmological bodies, if not as much as it does on Earth. The Elden Beast is literally made of star soup and can conjure nebulas. Placidusax as a former Elden Lord still has some latent control over time - which is linked to the stars. Only sufficiently powerful stars and planets can resist the Elden Ring's control. Like the Moons.
>>733664991Removing the Black Knife Assassins from their own planning and hiring process is silly, Marika's own kin deciding to kill her son did not come from nowhere. Black Knives (the weapons) are Blades of Calling changed by the Rune of Death, the call was coming from inside the house of the Golden Order
>>733665032It's time to stop posting, Eric.
>>733662705the tree burning once in the past is the best explanation as to why sap stopped flowing and why the present tree is transparent like a spirit
>doesn't say a word>fixes everything>dies
>>733664960>But they aren’t the same.They are though. Everything Radagon is comes from Marika's imagination. He's an idealized version of her champion eternal that doesn't need a beast to temper him. He's just her wish fulfillment because she needs a champion. He THEN becomes something different over time as she is zonked out and Radagon is free to do as he wants. He's an empty shell of a person so the elden beast can fill him up with what the beast wants instead of what she wants, thats why he takes control of the GO fundies and enforces the 2 laws to justify everything he does. >>733665032Almost no one has drank the sap. Only Godfrey has done it. Marika gave her most honored soldiers a different mixture.
>>733665032>headcanonThat’s a headcanon statement
>>733655742 Miranda never existed. You're referring to some cut content. Ruah is almost certainly never a person. No more than Liurnia was a person. Stop just making random shit up.
>>733665132Never happened though. Its a prophecy because it hasn't happened yet. Marika feared it terribly and outlawed a ton of things that would bring it about and accidentally Streisand effected it.
>>733665087But Ranni admits it was her plan >I did it allThe fact she killed herself at the exact same moment as Godwyn should tell you how meticulously it was planned, you can interpret Marika or whoever was in on it (I don’t agree with it) but it was definitely Ranni’s overall goal so she could shed her fate given to her by the fingers
>>733665067>The Elden Ring clearly has influence over cosmological bodiesHeadcanon
>>733665259>But Ranni admits it was her plan >>I did it allRanni broke the Elden Ring!?!?
>>733665164I agree with this for the most part except for "He does what the Beast wants.The beast having a will is contrary to the modularity of the Elden Ring.There were different hosts of the ring, with different orders in the past, why would the beast itself cling so strongly to this particular order? That's Radagon's desire, he's denying being replaced just as badly as Marika.
>>733665164>you are wrong for saying they arent the same but also here’s my fanfic where they aren’t the sameKay
>>733665319Radagon is the jackboot of the beast because the beast is isolated in a tree. Radagon's aims while in Liurnia perfectly mirror the Beast's desire for completeness. Neither can accept the reality of completeness and bastardizes the truth when they discover it as a result.Face it dude they are one and the same by the time the game starts.
>>733665164Lol>>733665251>Miranda never existed.Lol
>>733665132Adding onto what the other anon said, I'm pretty sure "first" in this context means the most severe of sins, not the first one to happen chronologically.
>>733665032> People that aren't "part"of the Golden Order, meaning they didn't partake in taking Erdtree Sap, have their Fate bound to different Stars or rarely to other Outer Gods, like the Twinbird. Now those who have their Fate bound to other Stars can't see it writ upon the sky due to the fettering of the Erdtree. And Goldmask fixes thatHoly headcanon
>>733665437And it didn't do this when it was in another god because?
>>733665319Does Malenia do what Miquella wants as "the blade of Miquella?"Now remember that the elden beast turns Radagon into a literal sword as a last resort. He's Radagon, Blade of the Beast for all intents and whales. Don't know how this went over your head lol.
>>733665259I'm not arguing Ranni had literally nothing to do with it, I'm arguing she was very blatantly not the sole brain behind it and removing the BKA's agency from the decision and as the actual carrying out of the murder just to lay blame on Ranni is dumb
>>733629152Not his plan. He wants to perfect the golden order by preventing the demigods from fucking it up, again. The petty squabbles of men are not his problem.
>>733665259Don't bother with this guy. He's being disingenuous and he knows it.
>>733665489The elden beast has never been in another god. The tree didn't mature until the end of the erdtree era moving into the GO. Marika's entire religion changed because the beast awoke. You faggots keep on thinking its a coincidence that the erdtree sprouts right where the elden stars falls. Nah faggot, the beast was in the meteor, the tree is its cocoon.
Radagon killed Godwyn. You may not like it. But it’s true.
>>733665164>Almost no one has drank the sapRetard every single Church of Marika had Erdtree sap for communionWhat do you think it was there for?SubhumanI hate that shitheads like you post their shitty headcanons off whatever they "vibe" as the story of the game because you are too subhuman to do 2+2
>>733665642Aaaand there it is, ok I can disregard you now.
>>733665475Everything there is correct
>>733665619>The petty squabbles of men are not his problem.*pushes him off a cliff*
>>733665665Sacred tears and sap aren't the same.
>>733658812The Helphen's Steeple is just a remixed DS3 weapon. Probably a greatsword version of the Morion blade that they cut and reused for Elden Ring. >A twisted sword resembling the towers of Londor's Sable Church. Eight branching blades and thorns induce bleeding.Don't think too much about it.
>>733665753Yes they are, stupid retard
>>733629152By removing the thing that tells you to make everything work like a clock narrow-minded faggot. The problem was the grip people can hold on Order. Embrace all and deal with the consequences. That's what Goldmask wants. That's the core message of fundamentalism. Suffering is essential to the human experience. Without it you can't truly know love
>>733665859Goldmask wants a couch to crash on that won't kick him off for thinking Good Vs. Evil is cliche
>>733665784>Don't think too much about it.Why, does it hurt your brain?
>>733659292This is the basic issue. He's trying to force the Golden Order into rationality by basically locking out the Gods who built the thing. And then shoving everything else inside by claiming that all regresses back to the Golden Order anyhow. Even if its obviously contradictory.
>>733665902>This is the basic issue. >He's [HEADCANON]Lol
>>733665642Obviously lol. There's only 1 anon that still rages at the meteors subject. >>733665784Nah the Ghostflame and burial stuff is its own lore. It shows that the world's always been turning. Yeah the erdtree eating people is terrible but they did the same thing with ghostflame in the past. Hero's get the best burian in erdtree faith and they completely absorbed into the tree because they have tons of rune power, in the ghostflame burial ritual era they made sure that heroes got sent to the steeple to make sure they can't come back. Both are making sure very powerful people can't come back to influence the present.
>>733665784That was my take as well. I mean fundamentally it's just the Onyx Blade WA wise.but tree's don't have steeples, it's literally designed to look like a church steeple of the Sable Church.
>>733666051No, it's designed to look like Helphen, and looks like Helphen
>>733665619The demigods part doesn't get enough recognition. We know Marika fucked shit up big time, but pretty much every major area is a case study in how demigods (and outer gods) ruin everything.>Limgrave: Godrick's Mengele-esque shenanigans >Caelid/Haligtree: Radahn stopping the passage of fate and Malenia's AIDS nuke>Liurnia/Eternal Cities: Lunar and/or stellar outer gods>Mt. Gelmir: Mass human sacrifice and torture>Altus: Persecution of omens, the undead, and the nomads (leading to the worship of fucked up outer gods like the flame of frenzy and the formless mother)>Farum Azula: Marika hiding the rune of death, stopping the normal cycle of death and birth Even if you don't agree with the Greater Will (not like it matters considering they fucked off a long time ago) it's sure as shit better than what the demi and outer gods bring to the table. Cutting them out of influencing the Golden Order is the right move.
>>733665741>He climbs back up and pwns you, in true giantdad fashion.
>>733661402Yeah, I'm pretty sure he's directly based on Plato bitching about Homer and saying that Homeric myths about the Gods being capricious, caring about individual humans, having drama between themselves, being fallible, etc., were all bad and should potentially even be censored. Instead Plato had his own theology he just made up on the spot that was totally better and more rational.
>>733666051Its designed to look like the black keep from the lands between. Its a relic of the ghostflame cult under the twinbird of death. The great warriors that never come back are the subjects being studied in the black keep to figure out what makes them tick.
>>733665526I think it would be very interesting if the black knives actual had some agency and had their own motivations, considering their importance in the promotional material and they’re iconic, but they as a group don’t really get a whole lot of concrete lore aside from being the same race as Marika / they were used by Ranni. You can interpret they had a falling out with her but even that mostly exists in the subtext, and I don’t know if either betrayed each other or if they never were true allies or perhaps they never did have a falling out and Iji/Blaidd’s death were by her design. And I have similar questions about Melina I feel like there was some connection with her and the black knives/Ranni but that was never given the light of day
>>733661437This is an issue with Goldmask.He never seems to have contacted the Fingers directly to realize that they were just charlatans. So he uses their language and means of interpretation to understand divinity without the experience of actually meeting them and knowing that they were half-decayed tricksters.
>>733666141This>Hel - concealed or hidden >phen - to bring to lightThey were used as study subjects.
>>733666083Yes yes, and the lampwoods that summon ghosts to lead you to secrets were planted by Miquella, right Eric?
>>733666153>I think it would be very interesting if the black knives actual had some agency and had their own motivations,They do, shame you are dumb
>sunrealm schizoid
>>733666153They do. They turn on Ranni after the fact because she put them thru a limited hangout and got their matron locked up.
>>733666141Hilarious headcanon>>733666231Yes, it's concealed light, light that is seen to lead only those that are worthy
>>733663667Giving power isn't the same as teaching them. There is no Erdtree Faith book, it is something you find spells for in somewhat random places vaguely associated with locations Marika traveled. Or have given to you at the start of the game. There is a manual for the Golden Order Fundamentalist incants. It is something that was taught to people as a scholastic system. Erdtree Incants weren't systemically taught. They were granted.
>>733666312The big reveal in DaS is that humanity is the soul of humans and that the "white" souls within them are just gwyn's cuck shackles. Going hollow is being simultaneously linked to the fire and being immortal but losing your own soul in the process. The humanity isn't "Eating" your white soul, your own soul in general is being consumed probably by the Dark sign itself. I swear people don't catch all the subtle shit in DaS. Estus is warmth from the bonfire, the bonfire heals you. You can collect thousands of souls and humanity but it does nothing until you toss it in the fire. That's the actual curse, the curse of being linked directly to a supernatural flame. A bonfire in of itself is just a bunch of undead boned lynch pined with a coiled sword, the "fire" was in the undead the whole time.
>>733666356How did they get that power? They read it in a book because Marika canonized her religious philosophy and taught it to people.
>>733666404
>>733666228>This is an issue with Goldmask>[HEADCANON]
>>733662847>Causality and Regression is supposed to be GOF's main thing overall, it got sidetracked by things relating to the hunters.Yes. Radagon didn't really make the system for battle. He made it for the sake of teaching people about his Fundamentalist ideology. It was weaponized for A.) Killing the Skeletons, and B.) as gifts to or from Miquella, who is far more violent than his father.
>>733664178That is different because there's a contextualized name to it as the Tower of Return and there's a crying NPC talking about how he wants to go back through it. The random warp from the Forge to Farum Azula on the other hand is more of a gameplay thing, imo.
damn we had so much fun on the other elden ring thread, just pure gameplay and actual game discussionmeanwhile you lore trannies are just endlessly bickering with huge walls of text, about things that quite literally no one fucking cares about
>>733666404I was in that DaS Thread, that's not your post lmao! You're spamming it because that anon was calling you out on your autistic schizoid ramblings.
>>733666660I figured Melina sent you there as a last grace because that is where the rune of death is but it feels incomplete for that last 2 hours or so.
>>733666228And that's assuming he's not just making fucking EVERYTHING up, given the Fingers' own finger-waving doesn't mean anything beyond a literal interpretation of what they're trying to say for lack of a spoken language. I think it's supposed to be an intentional parallel that Goldmask doesn't really make any meaningful philosophical or theological progress without you doing the real leg-work for him in revealing that Marika/Radagon statue, he's physically wasted away but still has a few gold articles of clothing and his mask, he has a follower who's willing to hear him out and is literally blindfolded
>>733666738Anyway, The rite of Kindling and humanity descriptions which states >Rare tiny black sprite found on corpses. Use to gain 1 humanity and restore a large amount of HP. >This black sprite is called humanity, but little is known about its true nature. >If the soul is the source of all life, then what distinguishes the humanity we hold within ourselves? Imply that within the setting, humanity is considered useless and mysterious as humans were taught the Soul was the source of all life. Because various undead also have white souls (I.E Soul of a Hero) and these descriptions, we can presume humans have 2 souls, as it is revealed in DaS's climax that humanity is a shard of the Dark Soul and source of immense power that collectively could put humans are the level of gods, especially as the fire fades. It's then revealed in dark souls III that Gwyn objectively sealed the dark soul in Fire, which is the source of the Dark Sign, resulting in the curse.
Another day, another thread where Eric loses his composure.Remember, Seamless Co-Op is a bad mod and stock asset reliefs on armor do not convey hidden stories.
>>733664327He's getting the Dantian.
>>733666815>And that's assuming he's not just making fucking EVERYTHING upHe is. He's just 1 man with a viewpoint. It is going to be colored by his limited worldview.
>>733666737>haha look at you discussing thing you like, you're nothing like us discussing thing we like!If no one cared about it there wouldn't be a discussion
>>733666967I feel really bad for the brony guy everyone makes fun of. I see it here and on /vg/ constantly. I get why everyone does this to him but its still hard to see.The poor guy is obviously suffering, something terrible must have happened to him.
>>733665132It just got old. The Erdtree's transparency is a LoD thing. >https://web.archive.org/web/20230123121405/https://streamable.com/7i2a5s
>>733665132>the tree burning once in the pastIts the one event we have no evidence for.The giants where culled before it could happen. The prophets looked down upon, and even ridiculed. Messmer is exiled to the Shadowlands in a game of 4D chess.Bernahl's armor says his maiden activated the forge, but it clearly did nothing more than to ignite a few leaves and stopped. And its the pointThe Rune of Death needs to be unleashed to burn down the tree.
>>733667076Barneyfag?
>>733665451Post anything supporting the existence of Miranda in the released game. This is where you get the name Miranda from. But it is cut content and therefore is not canon.
>>733667146There's a brony that calls everyone eric when he seethes about lore. Everyone makes fun of him like you see in this thread. If you think this is bad you should see what they do to him over in /vg/.
>>733667184>Post anything supporting the existence of Miranda in the released game.Miranda flowers.
>>733667076Eric? He got dabbed on by Saint Dragonirian, who enlightened the world that Eric's favorite game, Baldur's Gate III, is pedo coded.Eric has been crying that his bestiality pedo tranny game is an embarrassment on /v/ ever since. So he stalks and obsesses over him constantly.Now he peruses Elden Ring threads, vying for attention by making up lore about a "Sun Realm". It's very sad, he needs his meds.
>>733665642We are literally told that there was at least one other God in the past. Remembrance of the Dragonlord:>The Dragonlord whose seat lies at the heart of the storm beyond time is said to have been Elden Lord in the age before the Erdtree.>Once his god was fled, the lord continued to await its return.Marika isn't the first, and may not even be the second or third God of the world over the many millenia it has existed for.
>>733667263Go to bed Terr.
>>733667031>trannime smug picYep, checks out lol
Speaking of schizos, anyone know what happened to that guy that was trying to sue Fromsoft because he thought ER had an entire second secret game hidden inside it that only Japanese people could access? I know he used a trip but I can't remember it.
>>733667314There have been a bunch, but the elden beast is related to the GO only. The dragon society didn't revere trees at all.
>>733665251>>733667184Isn't there like 3 separate Miranda boss fights? Or the perfumer ingredients?
>>733667343Leave, redditbob tourist
>>733665959Who are the flies that Goldmask is trying to keep out of the ointment, retard?
>>733667361Everett?He's calling people eric right now. >how do you know its the same guy?Passwords for everything are estoc.
>>733667425How about no ya fucking troon? :D
>>733667314Marika the eternal>eternal means only the erdtreeShe's shown in faram azula with wolvesShe's been there a long fucking time
>>733667437Marika and her family because thats the only frame of reference he has. He doesn't even know about the dragons having an elden ring and uplifting all the races you see around you. He's a shortsighted idiot but he's got a plan.
>>733667361That's Nora Kisaragi, I still seem him post and he still has pride that he "sued" them. He wants to move to Japan.
>>733666407Radagon wrote his stuff down. Marika didn't write it. She gives out her magic to people, but doesn't intellectualize it. There are manuals for many incantation schools, but not hers.
>>733667446>Passwords for everything are estoc.Is this a riddle or are you literally telling me he uses the same passwords or something
>>733667525Thats a new trip after someone bruteforced all his accounts. >>733667532Marika made a whole school of magic based on her ideals and taught it to people in a book.
>>733667557A guy that uses a bunch of aliases used estoc as all his passwords. Anons found out and took his trips so he made new ones. He was roleplaying as at least 4 personas for a time, 3 of them linked to that brony.
>>733667476ok newtard
>>733667323>Go to bed Terr-ACKPhew, that was close, Eric almost did the "name" bit!
>>733667654Wow. Surprising but at the same time not at all.
>>733667801Sorry to trigger you creasy.
>>733667830He did the same thing on /vg/ but without trips because he can't anymore. He's been Terr, Sneedger, and now Creasy.
>>733667245That name doesn't mean that there's a person called Miranda. Miranda flower is the name of the plant. Like there are sunflowers, Bloodroses, etc.
>>733667905Define Miranda for me then. Its a name.
>>733667378The Erdtree is Marika's, but other Gods would have had their own symbols. Farum Azula is post-apocalyptic. If we only found half of a shattered Leyndell, we'd never know that it was built around the Erdtree or whatever symbol was chosen. >>733667519We have no idea who that woman is.
>>733668031Its marika with her 3 empyreans. Look at the beast champion armor animals are used to represent the empyreans.
>>733667589>Nora Kisaragi trip code as old as 2017 according to archives.Eric isn't familiar with the lore!Sorry you can't "Name deflect" with our favored delusional schizo who believes Miyazacki is god.There is no "Adam", there is no "Terr", there is no "Creasy"There is only Eric, who has now proven that he is also the Sunrealm Schizo.Great thread, you got sloppy and couldn't maintain the two identities. This is going in my schizo folder.
>>733667520The Elden Ring itself and the Golden Order as it exists aren't the same thing. One is a product of the other via the machinations of the system's current leadership.
>>733668031They're so obvious and miyazaki basically said as much before release, yet gaymers are still too stupid to realize stuff like marika and the dragons Why would the dragons attack leyndell if they weren't betrayed
>>733667589>Marika made a whole school of magic based on her ideals and taught it to people in a book.Golden Order Fundamentalism is Radagon's school. Erdtree Incantations are Marika's and there is no prayerbook for them. They're only given or found dispersed through the world.
>>733668253The game explains why.
>>733668281Just means that it was the only school allowed to be taught
>>733668253Wanting to squash a Godqueen's nascent empire before she can conquer the world is pretty rational. Why did Marika kill the Fire Giants? Proactive self-defense.
>>733668281You can look at the spell list and tell what her ethos was. You can look at the GO spells and likewise discern their ethos.
>>733668289Yeah, Marika betrayed the dragoons. Or abandoned them when Bayle cut placidusax 5 heads into 2/3. The 5 fingers probably were the envoys of the greater will. The betrayal probably involves metyr getting injured.
>>733668253>Why would the dragons attack leyndell if they weren't betrayedBecause every culture that was outer and brought inner had to change or get massively controlled to be accepted and the dragons were only given a special treatment because Godwyn the Golden was their solicitor within the faith. As soon as he died the dragons knew their time was up.
I claim this thread for villain pussy!
>>733668497But godwyn fought gransax
>>733668504Weird how her face is somewhat exposed in promotional art, then she never takes the helm off in game.
>>733668557How about you gransax deez nuts
>>733668413Yes. Marika's spells are mostly associated with blessings she'd hand out to followers, or are products of the Erdtree being built atop the Crucible and made to subjugate it. Radagon's spells are mostly utility and means to teach followers about what he believed to be the fundamental truths of the world, later weaponized to fight Those Who Live in Death and weaponized for or by Miquella. They're distinct. Marika did not create the Law of Regression Incantation, just like Radagon did not create the Erdtree Blessing.
>>733668627I know they are distinct. You can see what her religion was about just from looking at the spells.
>>733668504unfixable
>>733668504
He tried making a round 2 thread but it isn't going to pan out people are already making cryptic posts making fun of him.
