We live in the timeline where Gamefreak of all companies were the ones who made game with actually fun and engaging traveling through city.But streamers and other /pol/ grifters hated it though
Really stupid comments like that one always come right before they fuck something up>It's so easy bro, everyone else is just retarded, watch this
>>733654673Fly was a form of fast travel.
>>733654673morrowind solved this decades ago and devs still almost never follow the example. just make fast travel static locations where you have to go to one to use it and it can only take you to other specific areas and you travel on foot from there.
>>733655019It solved nothing because after few times you would rather fast travel, instead of running from Seyda Neen to Balmora(outside first time where you kill dude for future legion quest on your way to Balmora).
>>733655019This. Rdr2 does something similar as well. I'm certain a lot of players don't even realise that rdr2 has fast travel.
>>733655379damn, you're right, if only there was more to the game than the starting town and the second town. oh wait...
DD2 was actually pretty close to having good fast travel>wagons you can take between major locations>they go past a lot of other useful destinations so hopping off half way is handy too>can either sit and watch or sleep and skip to the end>chance of being attacked by monsters en route, fun shenanigans happenBut like everything else in DD2 it failed in the implementation, not enough variety in encounters, not much integration with other systems, not enough reason to use it compared to just running to a lot of places once you learn the map. But the idea was there, if it had had more development it would have been pretty cool.
>>733655678Yeah, I'm sure that you always just traveled on your foot, instead of using strider to the closest point... Especially from northern ashlander camps to Vivec, instead of just going to fishing village and using boat...Holy shit, zoomers who never even played game trying to talk about it, so fucking tiresome.>bbbbut my sugar daddy told me it was really well made gameIt was, but people still avoided traveling same route more than few times when they could have helped it.Of course you never even played morrowind, so you wouldn't know.This anon >>733655416 got it right though, both rdr games are great examples of when players would willingly avoid using fast travel
wdym this game doesn't have fast travel?but anons keep posting webms of their characters being sent flying at mach 5?
>>733656124>Yeah, I'm sure that you always just traveled on your foot, instead of using strider to the closest point...I hate esl retards, I literally said I use the striders. >>733655019 go read the post again and don't reply to me.
>>733656662>morrowind solved it long time ago, fuck the traveling just spam fast travel all the time!fucking zoomers
>>733654673you're not implying fucking legends ZA is in any way fun or engaging, right? Because that would be rather embarrassing tbqhfamalam
>>733656101>convoluted and inconvenient>good fast travelNo.
>>733656101They lifted that idea from RDR2.It's a great system so I don't blame them. Shame anything that isn't available always and instant will be repellent for the modern audience.
>>733659697RDR2 didn't invent that nerd.>>733656101>have to arrive at a very specific time window that often bugs out >sit to wait several times for it to appear so you can pay and then sit to get on the wagon instead of being a sit to appear on wagon having paid
OSRS does fast travel best. Between spells to set locations depending on spellbook, magic items with fixed sites, and things like boats, gliders, eagles, and in-universe travel options, routing a trip can actually be interesting. For some reason although Morrowind does the same thing on paper it doesn't hit for me the same way.
>>733660285Which other game has fast travel spots like carts that move around? GTA? Though I remember always having to call a taxi but I might be wrong.
>>733660591gta, wow, yakuza, the witcher, asscreed, sleeping dogs, skyrim etcI remember oblivion and morrowind mods doing it too but I forget what they based those systems on. I also forget other games that did it but wow is already going back 20 years, it's not new.
>>733654673Ironically, there's nothing fun to do while walking in Dragon's Dogma 1 and 2 because the setpieces and interesting enemy encounters are in specific corners of the map or in the isolated dungeons.
I didn't play 2 but 1 was heavily RPG balanced.There was a chimaera near the mines, first time you fight him he's a gigantic threat, second time a threat, third+ a joke.How can travel be fun when only a specific section of the map is balanced to your strength.
>>733654673I hate how every open-world NFS from Most Wanted and on has fast travel. NFSU2 doesn't, which is nice, but it doesn't have cops either. Combination of cops making open world exploration perilous and ability to initiate any race, speedtrap and even pursuit straight from the menu just meant that MW returned back to being a closed-world game like U1, with open-ended pursuits as a mode. Bad self-sabotaging game design.
>>733661307>How can travel be fun when only a specific section of the map is balanced to your strength.Because going through the game initially is a mystery and you can't see shit at night.>>733661089>Ironically, there's nothing fun to do while walking in Dragon's Dogma 1Finding chests, protecting your escorts, and doing quests is something to do.
>>733661903>Because going through the game initially is a mystery and you can't see shit at night.Right but fast travel near universally describes a backtracking mechanic.
>>733654673How do you design a fun fast travel system?I'm thinking it should use a somewhat rare resource, or a regenerating one-use thing. Just so that you can't spam fast travel all over the map, and that there's always the "threat" of walking to a place if you waste it.
>>733654673If you never have to upgrade or craft shit, you'll never have the need to fast travel. In a link to the past you find most of your "upgrades" in the world. Granted, even a link to the past has retarded shit in it. I'm just done with upgrades and crafting.
>>733664225Just let the player move fast. Size is relative. Speed is relative. Let me tunnel into hyper space and weave through obstacles at mach 10 and kick me back to real space if i screw up.
>>733654673>all you have to do is make travel fun>so let's spam trash encounters that waste time every 2 minutesThank you Itsuno, very cool
>>733654673Big budget video games are designed in a movie-like fashion where most travel is actually irrelevant, and fast travel acts as 'film cut' where the scene moves quickly to another location. In fact, some games like Genshin do do fast travel between cutscenes now.The open world games that don't have fast run contrary to this trend, such as Subnautica and Mount & Blade, that's because those are more like strategy games, so travelling and moving resources around is part of the challenge and you can get attacked on the way to your destination.
>>733654673Please dont mention shit like Pokémon in the same breathe as a real game like dogma 2.
It could be a cool mechanic for a Superman game, have him jump to any place in a single leap. Like you open the map, pick a location, then you hold the jump button and direction indicated by the game so that you jump to the marked place super quickly. If you miss the jump you see Superman trip and stumble upon landing, and if you crash into something you have to repair the collateral damage.
>>733654673I fast traveled constantly in PLZA since the city is designed like shit. Every building looks the same so I never really knew where I was, I only knew locations relative to fast travel points and frequent map usage.Getting to the rooftops tended to be annoying as well since you'd have to circle around the whole block looking for a way up
>>733654673>it's da chudzzzzz!!
>>733654673It's an unsolvable problem because the people who want fast travel are just trying to checklist through the game and there's no real value added for them with whatever travel minigame they come up with. Also>gamefreaksay no to drugs
>>733667275>travel minigamejust do anything besides "hold W." Make movement varied and interesting like SM64 or something. Any kind of movement tech. You ever watch Smash Melee players zipping around doing movement drills? Find a way to combine that combat practice into real time travel.
>>733654673This statement is not wrong but DD2 travel is not fun at all.>sprint for 30 seconds>out of breath wait for stamor>sprint for 30 seconds>bind rabbit meat etc to 2 key>spam it until you run it then go back to catching breath every 30 secondsThankfully someone always makes a sprint takes no stam mod for these games.
>>733656101they also break way too fucking easily or get spooked and run off which sometime causes it to fucking despawn while your dealing with a griffon or some other annoying faggot who wont fuck off.also if anyone unironically sits through the entire real time slow as fuck ride they're mentally retarded it's 10x slower than walking on foot if you don't use the skip feature.It would have been better if there was some actually interaction during the ride mixed with it going full gallop speed the entire ride to make it worth not skipping but instead some stupid fuck thought it was a good idea to just make the cart horses literally walk when not engaged in combat.
>>733664225Generally, I think that fast travel should be automated travel rather than instantaneous travel. Here are some systems that I found to be the best:>GTA VYou call a cab and the guy takes you where you want to go. You can even pay him extra to drive recklessly so you'll get to your destination faster. It's great, but there isn't anything to do but wait. I'd add minigames to the phone like Brick Breaker or even GTA 2 outright so you can play something while you're driven to your destination. I would also add limousine service where you get a cooler car and could pick up and bang hookers or get private lap dances on the way there.>Insomniac's SpidermanInstant travel, but you see cutscenes of Spiderman taking the subway instead of loading screens, so it's kind of amusing.>MafiaThere are trolleys and trains. While the trolleys are largely useless, the trains are cool because they stop at places you need to go for missions, cars are already pretty slow, and you can get arrested for speeding. It's a little better than GTA 3 because you can actually walk around the car while it's moving, but there isn't much to do otherwise. >inFamousYou use your electric powers to ride the rails around town. It's the coolest shit ever. Why hasn't this game been re-released yet?>Mirror's Edge CatalystIt has the shitty loading screen fast travel, but if I could fix it you would have to hop on a train and subway surf to your destinations like that one mission in Mirror's Edge 1.
>>733668016stamina is a shit mechanic by lazy devs anyway even outside of sprinting.
>>733667275Don't make Ubislop?
>>733654673He should've focused less on avoiding fast travel and more on a making a non-shit, non-pozzed game. Fuck him.
I didn't mind the way the witcher 3 did, you had to physically travel to areas which also encouraged explorationThere's also the fact you'd miss things if you ended up just using fast travel ASAPFast travel is a necessary evil in the current day of open worldslop, if you can't make the act of travelling fun insta-teleport just werks.
>>733655019That's not all Morrowind did, though. It also gave you more personal traversal options like Levitate and Jump, in addition to your own Speed/Athletics and Acrobatics leveling up, making you faster and more capable of getting around as you played. That's setting aside shit like the Boots of Blinding Speed, of course. Even if you were to paste a bunch of fast travel points into, say, Skyrim, you still move slowly and never get faster.
>>733668294I think stamina management can be fun in combatBut it shouldn't really apply when you're just running around out of combat. There's not much point other than to be annoying
>>733668746>I think stamina management can be fun in combatwhy?>attack>run out of stamina>kite around while it recharges>repeator worse, if you need to save some stamina for dodging and you just die if it runs out before an enemy attackDifferent moves should have windup and endlag and variable knockback like a fighting game. Imagine if Mortal Kombat had a stamina bar. That would suck ass
>>733668293Also another idea I had, which isn't really fast travel since it's just regular gameplay, but Assassin's Creed II has these pickpockets that will steal your money. In my mind, when you place a waypoint, that would spawn in a thief within five minutes of placing it, and the thief would sprint to that waypoint and you'd have to catch him in time before he'd get there. Doing something like that, where you turn travel into a race, would be fun.
>>733654673its a problem of map size. 80% of a game map is just wasted space in the modern age. if you released a game the size of morrowind or ocarina of time, these mouth breathers would think they are getting cheated out of content. pic related, look at this bullshit
>>733655416fast travel in rdr is obnoxious. i have to leave the town and watch the cutscene of setting up and tearing down a camp every time i have to do it. the trains are cool tho
>>733668914Working with limited resources in combat is typically enjoyable, like MPIt's just that it's been spammed by roll slops with damage sponge enemies so it probably has a negative association currently
Fast travel is boring and regrettable, flying mounts kill video games.
You do it by making the games smaller in scope and scale, and instead of hyperfocusing on large open worlds, focus on building smaller, more intimate level design that is highly detailed, has plenty of paths and ways to navigate it, but also feels like it's part of a larger world so you're still not feeling like you're in some small level. Make it so that traversing the map is actually fun and there's always going to be a new way to get to where you want to go and find something interesting / hidden. Instead of just one large world too, have it be a series of interconnected, medium to large size maps that you can at least traverse around on quickly and get from one map to another.
>>733668709Don't forget Mark/Recall and Interventions. Just getting back to civilization is a huge benefit.Morrowind had a ton of travel options that expand the longer you play and you still had to run places, which is really how it should be.
>>733669189strongly disagree. Combat should be paced by dynamically changing options due to conditions of the fight, not a series of meters and consumables. Again, the entire genre of fighting games focuses on combat as the exclusive form of gameplay and you don't see metershit in them at all. Spacing, timing, and move selection is what is needed for good combat.
BoTW did travel well: gliding, sliding, snowboarding, climbing, shedding, horseback ridin'. It had tonnes of cool ways to get around
>>733669189MP is different from stamina since it's effectively ammo count. I don't think it is as fun as a punishment system where it's all about minimizing your openings so they cannot be taken advantage of.>>733669317>and there's always going to be a new way to get to where you want to goThat's not even necessary, in fact having familiarity with your surroundings may improve travel because you're not getting side tracked. If you make the world less static, which is something RDR2 attempted to do with the random encounters, that could make something more interesting. The problem with RDR2 is that the encounters were repetitive and they often would side track you.
Fast travel as an endgame reward where most things in the world cannot challenge you is alright.Fast travel when you're starting out and don't feel like riding a horse for 5 minutes to get back to town is not. By repeatedly travelling along the same paths you can truly feel like you're immersed in the world, but immersion and fun are sadly not the same and it's very true that at some point the magic runs out and you just want to go to where you need to be quicker.The solutions if you absolutely don't want fast travel>Limit the number of backpedaling the player needs to do to the exact same place (none of that MMO questchain like "kill five miners - bring back five diamonds from the mine - kill head miner")>Let the player do something else in-game while travelling : makes the horse follow a preset "safe" path while you... brew your potions, craft some shit, read some lore, whatever>Make the means of going around the map inherently fun in itself (the GTA driving school)>Pepper shortcuts around so the players feel rewarded when they complete a level and know they can come back more easily if they wish>Give the players enough side objectives and less "questboards" design so that instead of going back again and again to the same spot you just hop from place to place constantly finding new routesBy the way, a game already exists that does all that and more. And it's so good at it that no one ever mentions the back tracking as a bad point even though you start back at the same spot every 22 minutes.
>>733669516>don't see metershit in them at allWhat the fuck am I reading? Is this the fabled fighting game larper?
>>733670172>building meters are the same as consumable recharging meters
>>733670293bro you seem to be unfamiliar with the new era of fighting games. Super meter is a given but it's common to see other meters from drive gauge to move cooldowns
>>733670548Even old games had character gimmick meters and other system mechanic meters like burst, although to be fair this stuff is mostly seen in airdashers.
>>733669967>posts a game with literal autopilot
>>733656101wolves in DD2 are absolute fucking aids
>>733656101I think they should have taken the cart travel even further. You should be able to build your own ox cart team and upgrade your cart to better armor, hire better guards, better ox driver, things like that. It could could have served as your "camp" as you move it around the map on the roads, having to travel on foot through rougher terrain and in caves, and whatnot.
>>733655019>morrowindWas also my first thought. Todd really knew what he was doing. The only improvement upon it would be for me to actually see the travel on the strider. Magic would be the only instantaneous travel method.
In WoW everytging felt part of the world. Fast travel had the social aspect of asking a mage for a portal.
>>733658551The point of RPGs isn't to be simple, and the point of adventuring in a medieval fantasy world isn't convenience.
>>733664225Literally just make it public transport. No free fast travel, you still have to know the surrounding area and know where the stations are. Also no minimap, and limited big map.
>>733668914without it you would just nonstop spam forever or could hold block forever
>>733673756Get rid of big map, too. Big maps just make the world small. If it has to be, just put it on the wall in game. We have the VRAM.
>>733654673ok but fun is subjective. so he's retarded
>>733664225I always liked ultima onlines fast travel system where you could mark runes in specific areas and either use a recall or gate spell if your magic was high enough or if you were grug melee adventurer you could use a runebook that had recall charges from recall spell scrolls created by spell scribes.
>>733654673We should kill those who pretend to be retarded even before the retards.
>>733661650I love most wanted and think u2 is worse than u1 but i do understand your reasoning.I just think underground 2 becomes a slog very fast and the instant action of u1 and mw makes for a far more fun experience.Carbon is where they fucked up because pursuits in carbon LITERALLY have zero purpose and are just there because mw had it.If u2 had pursuits i think it COULD be fun, but mw is peak because they designed rockport for pursuits and high speeds.
>>733655416Because it's garbage in RDR2. You have to go through a very long loading screen and sit there watching the traversal for a bit, so unless you're going from somewhere like Annesburg to Tall Trees it's not worth your time or effort at all to take the trip. 90% of the playable map as Arthur also lets you get to where you need to go in like three minutes on a horse.
>>733673985You know, how about a compromise- game set pre-2007, and you got a big oldschool paper map. No waypoints, no pinpoint to your current location, and when out and about, you pick one square to fold it down to (that you can leave without even knowing). When on public transport, you can open the map up more, to learn about where you're going and re-fold it to the square you need (sitting on the train in general lets you do some inventory stuff you can't do on foot).
>>733674772Alright, you've won me over.
>>733674412Don't get me started on Carbon. They made a whole-ass open world to then give no reason to use it.
>>733654673Just Case 3 did it right.
>>733664225Here's how you make a fun fast travel system:>You Don'tIt's a solution in search of a problem. Don't waste players' time. Just let them get to where they want to go fast and if that means instantaneous teleportation to an area they went to manually once, fine. No need to break what works. No one ever said "this game lets me travel too fast." And if you're the one autist who doesn't like fast travel, there's an easy work around; don't use it.
>>733664225Walking to the store in real life is boring too, because it's uneventful. I usually read 4chan or korean comics on my phone while walking.So you should be able to do that in video games too, multi-task walking and reading an item from your inventory.
>>733654673>We live in the timeline where Gamefreak of all companies were the ones who made game with actually fun and engaging traveling through city.No? ZA had horrible traveling and all the other Pokemon games have the most basic shit imaginable.
>>733673976not if you simply implement a RPS system so that if you constantly block you get grabbed or if you constantly attack you get parried or something
Morrowind has the best travel system ever, fight me cunts
>>733678621>No one ever said "this game lets me travel too fast.Bitch, have you not been reading the thread?
I HATE LEGENDS Z-A!I HATE LEGENDS Z-A!
>>733672698Adventuring in DD2 is running between identical goblin encounters the respawn before you make your way back through the same area.
