>WotLK.>70% of trial players quit by level 10.>Recently.>50% of level 10 characters make it to 25.So, if the stats are the same, 15% of players/characters make it to 25. Why have leveling when there are so many games to play that don't extremely dumb down gameplay, make you feel as if you're missing out, massively segregate players, prevent people from playing with their friends, and obsolete 90% of the world?What are your takes on leveling and the genre?
The problem with contemporary leveling is that you can't delevel (and wouldn't; leveling is supposed to be linearly gained power), which segregates players and obsoletes the world. Wouldn't you rather have all of the world relevant and be able to play with anybody from the start so the game doesn't lose a large percentage of players to a long, forced tutorial? Equipment can do everything leveling can but better because you can lose equipment to durability that has to be repaired with materials, giving materials and the world a reason to exist.
why many mmos have ugly graphics? is it to save space?
I think games like WoW would find much more success without timegating. People would play, and play more, when they don't have the game telling them they can't. They would see more content and value their subscription more, leading to more play; and the better ability to get into and continue high level play (M+; raiding) would lead to a better community, free carries, etc.
>>733677910saves space, hardware requirements and load timespiss easy to run even with 1000 players in the same area
>>733680123No retard, removing timegating just means only NEETs play the game and everyone normal leaves
>>733680910>current wow base are normal peoplelmao
>>733680910i left the game when they timegated DUNGEONSlike wtf, why cant i come home and spam some shit for drops or those imaginary points for gear
>>733680910Timegating massively limits how much people can play (how much value they're getting out of the game). It affects everything from professions to raiding. Characters being more valuable increases social identity, and people will be more attached to their character and all the cool things they can do, like being a trade tycoon. Limited content is the #1 reason for unsubs -- just let players do whatever they want.
>>733681296No you retarded subhuman, the people who arent neets wont play because they CANT keep up and wont be able to be a trade tycoon when some other fag is playing the AH 18 hours a day. Everyone with a life outside the game gets completely devalued without timegating>>733681286>why cant i come home and spam some shit for drops or those imaginary points for gearbecause then every group is looking for the people who had the time to do that and those who didnt fall behind
>>733681296The game would just devolve into ten guys who grind 24/7.
>>733681701>>733681859In World of Warcraft, the players who no-life progression already pull ahead on week one even with timegates -- they optimise alts, gold funnels, split runs, etc. Timegating doesn’t equalise effort; it just caps how much everyone can enjoy the game at once.Removing hard gates doesn’t force casuals to compete with grinders. It just lets different players engage at their own pace. The social upside is stronger communities and identity investment, because people play when they’re motivated instead of logging in for mandatory chores.
>>733682242gold is not a serious resource, hence why its not timegated. Real resources, like crests, are. Splits are people trying to circumvent timegating, removing it would make the problem 10x worse>it just caps how much everyone can enjoy the game at onceNo it caps how far ahead neets can get>Removing hard gates doesn’t force casuals to compete with grindersIt does exactly that. You still have to play in the same world as someone putting in 10x your playtime to keep up, without timegates you are behind>It just lets different players engage at their own pace.No, if you arent grinding 24/7 you fall behind without timegating. The pace is set by the maximum, it becomes non optional>The social upside is stronger communities The community is not stronger when its stratified by how much free time you have>because people play when they’re motivated instead of logging in for mandatory choresNo youre logging in as much as you can because you have to be grinding to keep up, or you give up and stop playing altogether. If I want to raidlog I cant, because Im supposed to be grinding. We've already seen it play out with artifact power in Legion/BFA and with pvp ranking in classic.
Because leveling has to exist to temper people to the gameplay. It's not because they want to show off the world, that's why leveling became so streamlined, it's literally just because 99% of people are fucking retarded and don't know how to push buttons or read tooltips, so you literally have to drip feed it or they won't understand rotations or anything. Even with all that shit they still don't understand, hence the "press one button, do your rotation" option they just added.
>>733675363The MMO formula no longer works. MMOs thrived in the early 2000s because they were glorified chatrooms with gameplay as an activity you can do to bond with your internet friends. MMOs no longer work because gameplay has never been the forte or focus but the modern gaming landscape demands good gameplay since there is a built-in social element to any and all multiplayer games now. In order for MMOs to ever be successful again, there needs to be a complete overhaul in the MMO formula to the point it no longer resembles an MMO. It isn't that simple though. If you go all-in on gameplay, you no longer attract people to the social aspects of your game. If you go all-in on the social aspect, you just get a shitty video game.
>>733683420If unlimited grinding automatically killed casual play, Old School RuneScape, EVE Online, or even seasonal ARPGs would’ve collapsed years ago. They didn’t -- people self-select goals and play at different intensities anyway.Timegates don’t actually stop optimisation; top players still split-run, gold-funnel, or min-max around them. What they do stop is motivated players logging in more when they’re having fun.Legion AP and Classic PvP weren’t just “no gates” -- they were infinite power scaling tied directly to player strength. Removing chores isn’t the same as designing uncapped mandatory power grinds.
>>733683517If leveling were actually required to “teach players”, boosting wouldn’t exist, and endgame onboarding wouldn’t be where most real learning happens in World of Warcraft. Most specs don’t even resemble their real rotation until late levels anyway.A slow drip of abilities teaches familiarity, not mastery -- players learn mechanics from dungeons, PvP, wipes, and other people. You can tutorialise systems without locking friends apart or making most of the world disposable.
i played turtlewow on release and leveling is so fucking slow at 1x it's insane, there's not even enough quests in a region to level you have to travel the continents as wellwarmane wow is the best wow
>>733677910Ffxi has great graphics for 2002 MMO and people still play it
>>733684658still the best mmo around
>>733684051Eve is deadPoE isnt an MMO and its playerbase collapses after the first weekend when people go back to workOSRS is all solo play (not a real MMO) and also is extremely small when you discount the bots jagex lets run wild>Timegates don’t actually stop optimisationIt doesnt have to stop optimization (you retarded ESL) it has to cap how far ahead it can take you. Even with splits top players still reach a point where they have to wait until the next week to go further, and they barely pull ahead while trying to exploit the system to its absolute maximum. Without timegating, they would break away entirely from normal players. >Legion AP and Classic PvP weren’t just “no gates” -- they were infinite power scaling tied directly to player strength.They were not. Release artifact levels capped at 54 and classic PvP capped at r14. You clearly have no idea what youre talking about which is why you keep spouting retarded ideas we've already seen fail
>>733675363Why did you get mindbroken by this simple statistic? This goes on and on.
How did the French manage to make the best MMORPG of 2026?
>>733685043Wakfu made me wanna fuck trees.
>>733684872EVE gets 25k-30k concurrent on one server.OSRS gets a 250k concurrent and is technically an MMO. Especially the economy is still shared by players, and group content exists.>Without timegating, they would break away entirely from normal players.This happens for all players not there on week one, and this disparity increases every week. They could catch up much more easily without a gate. No-lifers still have a max of what's attainable, and everybody reaching this would be able to focus more on content that's not a gear-check, e.g., being competitive in PvP (PvP games are the most popular and hours played).
>>73368595730k for eve is laughably deadOSRS is over 70% bots and another 25% 3rd worlders farming for RMT. >Especially the economy is still shared by playersraped to death by bots*>and group content exists.which only neets can touch, hence why normal people avoid OSRS>They could catch up much more easily without a gate.No they cannot. The gap only widens as time goes on, if someone is playing twice as much as you then you will never catchup until the top hits a timegate>No-lifers still have a max of what's attainableand time to reach max has to be balanced around them>and everybody reaching this would be able to focus more on content that's not a gear-check, e.g., being competitive in PvPEven more reason nobody is going to touch that garbage. And nobody is going to play a game for PvP where they have to NEET farm for months before they can actually PvP
>>733687290More people would see more content and become more familiar with and attached to the game. The question is if people would stay with the game if they could max out content quickly. More people would join guilds, which has been correlative to increased retention, and guilds would be more cohesive (more chatting and gameplay), which would be correlated to increased retention. More people would PvP, which brings potentially massive amounts of people from CS and MOBAs, not to mention singleplayer games. I would say it would be successful, but we don't have the numbers.
>>733689604We do have the numbersWoW, the game with timegating, is the most popular MMO by a mileshit like Eve is dead as fuck, because everything you said is wrong. People arent going to join guilds when they fall way behind for having a real life and end up benches or on bitch duty, people arent going to PvP more when they get dominated by NEETs, people arent going to play more theyre just going to dump the dogshit game and find something that prioritizes skill over free time
>>733689989That's just, like, your opinion, man. EVE has 24 years of leveling, vastly differentiating the power of low level and high level players. This should make sense to you since you said people don't want to get stomped. However, being in a corporation greatly increases effectiveness, and this makes people play more. This is an objective trend. People value balance, and fewer players would quit if they enjoyed the gameplay. WoW has vastly more intense and immersive gameplay than a MOBA, at least for PvP, and the PvP demographic, not to mention the 1.5B PC gaming demographic that would enjoy having things to do in a living fantasy world, can stream into WoW much more if a balanced state was easily reachable.People who don't have much time to play understand that they're not always going to be 100% competitive. I don't think this applies to anywhere near a large percentage of people, especially not with gaming capable computers. 9 to 5 gives people plenty of time to play every day unless they have kids or other hobbies.
>>733676137Material repairs would be my standard for calling WoW a sandbox.
>>733685223Imagine your cock getting all sticky with tree pussy sap
>>733685043I only ever see people posting this picture but never actual gameplay or even what the game is about.
