just because he's a retard doesn't mean he was poorly written

>>733676258
BEAR
BVLL
DIVIDE

>>733676258
He's not poorly written. He's an idiot who couches his suicidal ideology in lofty prose. But retards like you think "stupid character = bad writing"

>>733676258
I always imagine him with Snake's voice for some reason

>>733676258
He's one of Chris Avellone's mouthpiece characters. He's a decent enough writer, but when he gets it into his head to spout off about a setting, it swiftly turns insufferable.

>>733676732
>He's a decent enough writer,
Nah, all the DLCs are terribly written

Ain't that a

Posted it again award.

>>733677494
I never posted this before

>>733676258
>[Intelligence 10] So you fight the good fight with Bearity Bull Radio

>>733676732
I suspect he would've been better received if Avellone's original draft for him had survived.

>>733678387
Has anyone used AI to make three dog do ulysses's lines=?

>>733676258
Was it? It was kind of kino for how retarded it all was, tbqhwyf.

>>733676258
Because he's a delusional savage that lies to himself.

Only part of it I hated was how weak the nuclear strikes really are. If it was some world ending shit, I would have felt something.

H g g

>>733676258
I feel like people would've been far more receptive of him if he hadn't talked in a cryptic tribal way that he did in the game.

>>733684437
You can take the unga out of the bunga but can't take the babubu out of the nobubu

>>733684437
I don't think he works nearly as well without it. He's trying to obfuscate his own message. He doesn't want to be understood, because then you might be able to talk him out of doing something he knows is incredibly stupid.

>>733684589
he actually wants to be understood, he's just too ignorant to get his point across properly, that's why he's stuck repeating what he does know in an impotent attempt at communication

I just wanna say
>Finally check out new Vegas
>Oh okay people say that house and Caesar are deep characters
>Ceasers legion are just evil raiders who's philosophy Is literally "we're evil, being good is dumb"
>House is a mad scientist who wants to live forever and control people like robots
WHY THE FUCK WERE YOU ASSHOLES GLAZING THIS SHIT

>>733684786
Nah, pretty much every passed speech check is met with an incredibly verbose "N-nuh uh!"

>>733684883
It's not our fault you're retarded, anon.

>>733684883
House and Caesar are well-written but not nearly as deep or morally ambiguous as their fanboys like to pretend they are.

For immersive purposes im able to pretty much sum up his characterization as he obsesses over symbols trying to find meaning even if there isnt any, hes also unable to cope with his tribe being enslaved by the legion and being nearly killed by a nuclear explosion was the last straw that broke him.

>>733684883
Legion/Caesar
>People by their nature are violent and evil, if we are to conquer the primitive tribes in the east we must speak their language, meaning we must conquer and discipline them by force. Being kind to them is weakness and we wont survive in this world by being kind.
Literally Fallout Hobbes. He is kind of proven right considering the NCR basically was held together by duct tape.

House:
>The world is disorganized and primitive, but we can conquer them with money and technology. The allure of the Strip is enough for them to follow like moths, and then they will be subservient to me (and my robots). It's not a matter of force, it's a matter of time.
He is literally Capitalism in the fallout world. This is the same doctrine that the US used in the Cold War btw.

In any case, the best written character is Joshua Graham hands down.

>>733684883
bait used to be believable anon

>>733685254
The other anons believed me, which you should be more upset at because I was fucking referencing the stupid fucking show

>>733676258
Just like Kreia in KOTOR2, he's well written, but he's just an absolute tism-tard.

He became so obsessed with metaphors and allegories he literally can't see reality anymore.

>>733685342
>I was fucking referencing the stupid fucking show
Again, not our fault.

>>733676913
I think there's a decent metanarrative moral dilemma in honest hearts about the white savior and cost of (rebuilding) civilization, although you are correct that both that layer is explicitly unintentional and the ground level dialogue and presented choices range from the most boring in the whole game to cute ideas executed dubiously.

>>733685682
> the white savior and cost of (rebuilding) civilization
The white savior is literally saving the poor stupid savages who can't defend themselves from the tribes who want to serve Caesar and kill them. How is that evil? Not to mention, if you're arguing that the tribes are insulting to native American tribes when the white man came to America and made them better (like Squanto, praise to him), Europeans came to North America and encountered tribes raping, enslaving and canabalizing (literally) other tribes. They could have gone FAR worse without ever lying.

The most interesting thing is that Joshua is teaching them that they need to use violence to defend themselves and running away solves nothing. And for Joshua, the entire point is that he has to come to terms with the fact he's a violent man, even if he wants to be otherwise, and that he needs to constantly choose mercy when he wants violence.

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He's actually extremely well written unless you incorrectly interpret him as someone that the authors intend to be authoritative about the setting.
>>733676732
>He's one of Chris Avellone's mouthpiece characters.
No he fucking isn't. You can talk him into abandoning his entire world view in ten different ways for a reason.

>>733684883
They are deep characters because they are kind of selfish assholes deep down inside. Complexity doesn't equate morality.

>>733685212
>>People by their nature are violent and evil, if we are to conquer the primitive tribes in the east we must speak their language, meaning we must conquer and discipline them by force. Being kind to them is weakness and we wont survive in this world by being kind.
Except then they still rape and enslave and mass murder people who are by every single metric more civilized than the legion. I wish the legion was written in a much more grey way, but they were not.

He feels out of place. Everything else in NV feels written succinctly and to the point. Ulysses's dialogue is covered in metaphors and can't say what he's thinking without being overly poetic. He's obsessed over a a plot point that is thrust onto the player, and its extra annoying to hear him waffle on about it like a schizo

>>733686754
That problem would have also been mitigated if there were other characters to talk to.

>>733686754
It's not "like a schizo". He's literally schizophrenic. His entire hangup is that the only place he ever felt at home since the legion absorbed his tribe was destroyed in a completely random accident, and his mental illness won't allow him to accept that there was no meaning or lesson to be learned from it. What he settled on after years of desperate searching was that it must be a sign that he should destroy the whole of the south west with nuclear weapons. But he'll accept pretty much any answer you give him that's internally consistent, because he's just looking for SOME meaning, it doesn't even actually have to be true.

>Troon Vegas
Legitimately who gives a fuck lmfao
May as well argue which yidsney cartoon supports faggotry the most

>>733676732
This
>>733676913
HH is pretty good for Joshua; DM has some truly great parts and I OWB is funny, even if too wacky to be taken seriously
>>733686379
>No he fucking isn't
Yes he is. Avellone has been pretty open about it

>>733686962
>Avellone has been pretty open about it
Just making shit up on the internet as usual

>The NCR is the worst thing ever because they care about laws and try to civilize places like the Mojave.
>Therefore, I must now nuke a civilian caravan road, directly killing all the settlements along it and indirectly killing any further out who rely on that road.
He's an evil Legion retard and he gets killed like any other evil Legion retard.

>>733676258
Lonesome Road as whole is
It settles your character with dumb backstory
It limits your participation in the story
It makes you listen to fucking hours of someone's monologues
And it does one of the worst things a game can do, have you make a monumental gigantic choice and then completely fail to acknowledge it
All NV DLCs are guilty of this (except of rDead Money a bit) but with the nukes, LNR takes the issues to 11

>>733676913
Retard.

>>733686962
>OWB is funny
I know a great website for you to frequent.

>>733684883
Do you come from /tv/? Are you illiterate?

>>733687471
Nigger, OWB was written in 2011, nobody fucking used Reddit and this place had such a severe amount of faggots posting fictional ponies from a children's cartoon that an entire board had to be created to appease them
Go take your disgusting newfaggotry somewhere else

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>>733686528
>Except then they still rape and enslave and mass murder people who are by every single metric more civilized than the legion
Raiders and tribals? Most of the territory they conquer are Raiders, tribals, and random old world settlements / cities who they mostly just make pay tributes and leave alone. Legion territory is free from all Raiders, they are literally the "security at all costs" faction. The only groups they exterminate or amalgamate en masse are tribals or those who refuse to surrender. Ironically theyre a lot more like the Mongols than the Romans which if you haven't learned about Mongolian expansion it makes even the Legion look tame by comparison.

>>733685342
We don't give two shits about the stupid show. Go away.

>>733684883
>who's philosophy
Brown.

As much as I love him and his entire story arc. He does fall under that one stupid indi slop guilt trip
"Why did you kick the dog? Do you feel bad now?"

Because theres nothing you can do to mitigate the damage that happens from you entering the divide
That one nuke is mandatory
The fuckass crawling mobs are mandatory just from entering.
Tedious.

Shame because i love his voice and the dlc in general

Is there a mod that makes all girls in the game nude? I want to pretend women wearing clothing is banned in the Mojave

What was with the game's messaging being entirely "Old World bad"?
What actual system of governance and philosophy did the writers want you to believe was actually good?

>>733687697
Was Boone's wife a raider or tribal
It seems like the legion encourages raping and torturing completely normal people from peaceful settlements

>>733688478
But the Legion didn't capture Boone's wife. She was sold to the Legion fair and square by a regular citizens.

>>733688427
They want you to believe in nothing since they're all cynical leftists

>>733676258
The only people that think Ulysses is poorly written are people that never looked for the audio logs. They spell out his worldview plain as day.

>>733688478
Nipton, too, where they got the town to sell out the NCR and Powder Gangers to them and then killed everyone anyways

>>733684883
>>House is a mad scientist who wants to live forever and control people like robots
He literally is only mildy mad after his courrier literally shot the president of the nation he wants to milk.

>>733688734
>A town of degenerates, traitors, and whores was destroyed
OH WOE IS HUMANITY.

>>733688593
I don't think she consented to the sale nor did whatsherface who gets her head blown off have the right to sell her
They legion are chaotic evil raiders written to be cartoonishly evil and no amount of philosophizing about it will change that

>>733687423
>It settles your character with dumb backstory
Saddles* and no it doesn't. Pay attention next time.
>It makes you listen to fucking hours of someone's monologues
Illiterate.
>completely fail to acknowledge it
DLCs in general barely touch the base game due to technical restrictions. You instantly get enough negative faction rep to become hated by whoever you nuke.

>>733688478
She was literally sold into slavery dude

>>733688478
The NCR seems to be an exception to their rule of leaving civilized settlements alone, likely as terror tactic.
When they take over Primm and Goodsprings nothing really happens to the citizens beyond coming under Caesar's aegis

>>733688812
>I don't think she consented to the sale nor did whatsherface who gets her head blown off have the right to sell her
It's not up to The Legion to check where the people they do business with get their merchandise.
>They legion are chaotic evil raiders written to be cartoonishly evil
Wrong, you are just stupid. Are you American by any chance?

>>733688857
They rape squads were probably on their way but were delayed until after the game is over

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Girls girls, stop arguing
He's a stupid retard AND poorly written
There is no mutually exclusive binary here

>>733688946
We are not talking about the American army here.

>>733688910
>enslaving raping and torturing random people to death is le good
There isn't much difference between the Legion and the Paradise Falls raiders from 3 besides aesthetics

>>733688813
>no it doesn't. Pay attention next time.
Yes it does, retard. It puts you in a time and place. Your character is now obligatorily a Courier before the First Battle of Hoover Dam happened, which means you also have a set age, since you weren't delivering mail through a radioactive wasteland at 10 years old.
>Illiterate
Cope, it's literally true.
>DLCs in general barely touch the base game due to technical restrictions.
Which reflects poorly on their decision to make them as they were. NV was notoriously buggy at launch, maybe instead of releasing irrelevant DLC that doesn't affect anything, make the game more stable and maybe add in some Legion and house content so that 70% of the game isn't just the NCR.
>You instantly get enough negative faction rep to become hated by whoever you nuke.
Which matters for jackshit because you can get your reputation reset when you enter the Lucky 38.

>>733685992
You're right, which is why I said it was unintentional. Everything in the DLC from Clark's old logs detailing what lessons he hoped the children who would found the Sorrows would pick up and haven't in 200 years, to Graham's role in the story, to the basic concept of "kill the bad evil guys in the fallout game" makes teaching the Sorrows to defend themselves far and away the most satisfying conclusion.
The only real wrinkles presented by the game are splitting hairs line by line for the different endings. Specifically that Daniel's terrible plan actually works and fleeing east a couple hundred miles also works perfectly as a final end to hostilities, and that any defense of zion leads to bloodshed between the defenders when there otherwise would not be. Personally, I still think these are pretty small concessions to make, but it's enough to make me think about what makes more sense from a roleplay perspective on a given playthrough.
It's crumbs, frankly, but it's still more interesting than anything else in the DLCs aside from maybe Dog.

>>733689081
>enslaving
It was a gift for most of the slaves. Their tribes were murder-hobos without future
>raping
This is never seen nor admitted by the Legion. I don't remember any NPC accusing them of rape.
>torturing random people to death
This never happened.

>>733688946
I don't think so, they're fairly consistent with that. NCR is sorta an enemy-at-war situation so all of their citizen's are fair game
Also, they wouldn't have dedicated rape squads, rape is something of a reward in the Legion, you can't have one group getting all the goods.

>>733689097
Nigger you act like you wrote a 20 pages background story for your character. I bet you just started the game and never thought about it.

>>733689081
The NCR killed innocent children and old people in the Bitter Springs Massacre.

>>733689210
Not everyone is lazy as you, Negro John.

>>733689110
The issue with HH is Daniel.
He's presented as an alternative to Joshua Graham but
a) He's lame and he sucks. Whereas Graham has the cool voice, the cool look, and the cool backstory
b) His decision is retarded
So there's never any real choice in the story. You're gonna help Joshua and you're gonna have him be merciful because that's the better outcome for him and everyone around him.

>>733689189
Did you play the game with your eyes closed?
They kidnap random women to take as breeding stock and they nail random slobs who had the misfortune to cross their paths to crosses
The the majority of the legions troops are braindead tribals who are only in it for the mayhem
>>733689243
Did they rape and crucify them and then go on about how much of a great thing it is to rape and crucify people?

>>733689097
1). You can literally deny everything Ulysses says about you. If he survives, he will even admit after that he was so desperate for answers, he might of started making them up.
2). Even if you accept what he said is true, this big elaborate backstory forced onto is basically "you were a courier who worked a lot in the Mojave Area", which doesn't seem much of a stretch considering the game starts with you being a Courier and taking a package from California to Vegas.

>>733689363
>Did they rape and crucify them and then go on about how much of a great thing it is to rape and crucify people?
No. They just shot them and burned them and gore them while they were cowering without any form of defense.

>>733689243
C'mon. Let's not pretend that's anything comparable.
First, the Khans were happy to massacre the NCR's old and young.
Second, that was miscommunication and the brass felt so bad about it that they set up a camp of refugees just for the Khans.
There's a lot to criticize the NCR for, but Bitter Springs really isn't it

>>733689174
>This is never seen nor admitted by the Legion.
How often do you think master-slave sex is consensual? I'm not even sure it can be, unless the slave has fully succumbed to stockholm syndrome in which case it's still debatable. It's like saying you consented to pay me after I put a gun in your face and told you to give me your wallet.

>>733689363
>They kidnap random women to take as breeding stock
Like...?
>The the majority of the legions troops are braindead tribals who are only in it for the mayhem
That's not true at all. They're all very disciplined and deeply fanatical to Caesar himself

>>733689438
>C'mon. Let's not pretend that's anything comparable.
Killing is killing, bro. You have fallen to the hole of defending murder to win your argument. Dangerous road that one is. You no longer have the moral high ground.

>>733689482
>How often do you think master-slave sex is consensual?
This is all in your non-canon head.

>>733689347
well the biggest issue is that HH is essentially one long fetch quest, which are normally the thing everyone hates the most but HH always gets a pass on it for some odd reason.

>>733689497
The fuck you mean "Like...?" that's literally what happened to Boone's wife, not to mention the family trapped in Cottonwood. Stop being retarded on purpose.

>>733689416
Did the NCR officer who ordered the massacre give a lengthy villain speech about what a cool guy he and his goons are and how proud they all are for committing those atrocities?
Face it, the legion are the designated edgy villain faction while the NCR are just a faggier version of 1970s America

>>733689347
>You're gonna help Joshua and you're gonna have him be merciful because that's the better outcome for him and everyone around him.
I tried but I didn't have enough points in persuasion lmao. At least he became semi-happy.

>>733689415
1) Not in any definitive way. The dialogue is clearly meant to hint that you're lying to yourself, it's just variations of "it couldn't have been me? Right?" . There's never any "yeah no I wasn't even a courier at the time"
2) The backstory is "you have been a Courier for at the absolute minimum of 4 years, much likely something like 10, which gives you a limited age range and puts specifically at a region and a time.

>>733689573
I always saw the NCR as more of a 90's America. Im not sure why but it always gave me a "The US Military in the Clinton Years" kinda vibe.

>>733689573
>Did the NCR officer who ordered the massacre give a lengthy villain speech about what a cool guy he and his goons are and how proud they all are for committing those atrocities?
No. The NCR are all hypocrites that paint themselves as good guys while committing calamities and stealing land behind that mask.

What the NCR does it does out of pure greed, while The Legion is noble in its goals. There is no corruption in The Legion.

>>733689527
>Killing is killing, bro
It really isn't. There's a world of different between killing on self defense, as mistake and say, nuking 500 million lemurs.

>>733689527
>You have fallen to the hole of defending murder to win
The legion outright glorifies murder though
Both Caesar and Vulpes furry hat guy go on and on about how righteous it is to slaughter people and make them suffer as much as possible

>>733688427
I think the amount of resources that went into depicting the NCR makes it intended to be a pro-democracy game. They want to challenge the shit out of that idea but also make it seem pretty solid at the end of the day when compared to alternatives.

>>733689648
Oh so killing all those children, pregnant women, and old people was in self defense? Jeez, how weak is the NCR?

>>733689438
>Second, that was miscommunication
t. NCRcuck

>>733687697
>and random old world settlements / cities who they mostly just make pay tributes and leave alone.
Complete headcanon. There are no civilians in the legion. Period. You are a slave or you are Caesar.
>Legion territory is free from all Raiders,
Free from OTHER raiders. The legion are themselves a bunch of psychopathic butchering rapists. Might as well call Attila the Hun a civilizing leader.
>Ironically theyre a lot more like the Mongols than the Romans
Yeah, exactly, and the Mongols were FUCKING EVIL.

>>733689621
The NCR presence in Nevada seemed like one big Vietnam reference to me
The president even looks like Nixon

It's crazy how much /v/ has spiraled into relentless contrarianism, that some people genuinely think the NCR is just as bad/worse then the Legion.

>>733689660
>The legion outright glorifies murder though
The Legion glorifies order. Murder it's just the tool for peace. The Legion only kills evil people, too. Good people live in peace in Legion territory, something the NCR can't say.

>>733689531
I meant only story wise, but yeah HH is just very full in quest design barring the Survivalist one, which is simple but organic and features some phenomenal storytelling.
>HH always gets a pass on it for some odd reason
It's my first DLC because it's a lot closer to the base game than any of the others, which all kinda feel like a dream set in a fairyland
The Sierra Madre, the Divide, Big MT, all fictional places that look and are fairly fantastic even for Fallout. Zion though, is real. Like Las Vegas is real.
And the place is pretty beautiful and a nice scenery after the Mojave Wasteland.

>>733688857
>The NCR seems to be an exception to their rule of leaving civilized settlements alone,
There is no such rule.
>>733689758
There have been legion fags since the game came out. They were as delusional then as they are now.

>>733689758
>t. /tv/cuck tourist

>>733689781
>Murder it's just the tool for peace
Ok so it's fine when the NCR murders people too then? No reason to get upset if it's all in the name of peace?

>>733689572
>Boone's wife,
NCR citizen
> family trapped in Cottonwood
NCR citizens
>Stop being retarded on purpose
Follow your own advice and pay attention to the point

>>733689748
>ITS NOT CANON BECAUSE I SAY SO
Ok, NCuck.

>>733689847
Like I said, the NCR kills for greed. The Legion kills for peace. Do you forget the NCR was currently invading the Mojave before The Legion stopped them?

>>733689781
>The Legion only kills evil people, too.
Literally the first thing you see the legion do in a game is exterminate an entire town full of people just to inflict psychological damage on a nearby NCR outpost. They use dirty bombs, domestic terrorism, and provide weapons and supplies to the very kinds of degenerate raiders that they claim to be here to civilize, if it means those raiders are better at disrupting the NCR occupation. The legion are evil and generally insane, not one of them is redeemable.

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>>733676258
>Why was he so poorly written?
Because he is 99.9% 'tell' instead of 'show'. He's barely even a character, he's just the writer's thesis statement with an avatar and a VA. The 'bear-bull' stuff feels like Avellone heard the definition of a metaphor but did not actually know how it was supposed to be used. There is literally no reason for him to refer to them as bear and bull instead of NCR and Legion unless he wanted to keep the syllable count down, something that is VERY clearly not true.
He also just blames you for things you did not do. None of his accusations ring home because it was stuff that happened before the game, with a character that was not yours. FNV is the one Fallout game where the protag had no established backstory whatsoever, and then they decided to fuck it all up with the final DLC so it just falls completely flat. If you were going in blind and properly RPing with your own backstory for John Courier, Ulysses is here to tell you that actually you were in this place and did that and here's how you should feel about it. It's just retarded.
The singular reason people have any fond memories of this DLC is because Roger Cross knocked it out of the park with his voice work. If Ulysses was voiced by someone mediocre, it would not be remembered fondly at all.

>>733689679
>Oh so killing all those children, pregnant women, and old people was in self defense
No? I never claimed that? I'm saying your point of "killing is killing" is ridiculous
>>733689683
I don't even like the NCR, but using Bitter Springs to try an argue the Legion as being more moral is fatuous

>>733689912
That town was full of whores, criminals, and pimps. The fucking mayor sold them all to die, for crying out loud. There were no innocent people there.

>>733689898
It's not canon because it's not in the fucking game. There are no normal settlements in the legion and nobody ever says that there are. All they say is that the Legion has kicked out all the other raider gangs. Fat lot of good that does when the legion themselves are nearly as bad as they could possibly be, only outclassed by what we see in game by the fiends, and not even by all that much.

>ncr is evil because they commit war crimes
>legion is good because they destroy their enemies epic style

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>>733676258
Talks in circles for far too long but never actually says anything
He has no substance, credibility or impact, retardation notwithstanding

>>733689924
Don't you get tired of covering up NCR atrocities?

>>733689956
Did they hold a trial for every single person in town?

>Noooo the NCR war crimes don't count because... because... they are the good guys!

>>733689590
It's funny because that's the only really be check in the DLC (which has a low level recommended level) and you can't use magazines or mentats to convince him because it's right after a cutscene
>>733689621
I always thought them more like a Bush era, Iraq invasion army with the Legion as a stand in for the Taliban

>>733689898
you gotta tone it down a little with the bait it's getting too obvious

>>733689829
>>733689898
>guys is it Woke to say that mass slavery and rape is in fact worse then a mismanaged government and a slightly corrupted bureaucracy?

>>733689956
>That town was full of whores, criminals, and pimps.
It had a casino with hookers in it. You don't get to torture 100 people to death because they broke a moral code they didn't even fucking know about. It would be one thing if the Legion took over and only resorted to executions in the face of defiance, but no, they just barged in and slaughtered everybody, because the point was to try to traumatize the NCR Long 15 Outpost. And I guarantee you that every one of them, even the fucking powder ganger, was a better person than any member of the legion.

>>733689801
>There is no such rule.
I disagree
>>733690007
Such as?

>>733689914
on my last playthrough of lonesome road I just denied every accusation and gunned ulysses down without trying to talk about it. I found that cathartic honestly. Trying to reason with him is never satisfying and it probably was never supposed to be satisfying.

>>733690057
>>733689965
The NCR committed no war crimes.

>>733690074
>mismanaged government and a slightly corrupted bureaucracy?
Disingenuous cunt.

>>733690019
>>733690117
>NOOO my hecking pimperinos and slutterinas and murderinos were good innocent people! They went to church every sunday and were about to get their life back on track

>>733690151
>I disagree
Name any evidence to support your claim.

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>>733690117
Tbf Vulpes is the worst maniac in the Legion and probably had a wank after killing all those people

>>733690157
What I found satisfying is using his tapes to talk him down. You basically force him to realize he is acting like a giant hypocrite, blaming you for shit wildly beyond your control while he was responsible for both the White Legs rising to power and the Think Tank waking up.

>>733690172
Nobody is saying this thoughever
Shitposters are saying when the legion massacres people it's always a good thing no matter what

>>733690151
>>733690172
Bitter Springs Massacre.

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>>733689914
>unless he wanted to keep the syllable count down
He was originally cut because he just couldn't shut the fuck up and it took up too much space.

>>733690198
>NOOO my hecking pimperinos and slutterinas and murderinos were good innocent people!
Compared to rapist murderers, yes, actually. Not that everyone or even more than a small minority of the town actually participated in such things. Explain how a hooker is morally more worthy of execution than someone who tortures civilians to death? Every member of the legion is a demented degenerate psychopath and they are the ones who should be piled into bonfire.

>>733690251
Bitter Springs is framed as a bad thing that every NCR member sees as a black mark on their record
Meanwhile the legion thinks what they did at Nipton was heroic

>>733690238
The Legion kills scum while the NCR massacres children. Take that brahmin baron cock out of your mouth for a second and use your head.

>>733690198
>Disingenuous cunt.
this is really funny coming from the guy who defends massacring an entire town

>>733690216
>Name any evidence to support your claim
They don't attack Nipton or Primm after they win and instead rule then over like subjects, which is consistent with how Dale Barton portrays them

>>733690251
Aaaand?
Name 2 more

>>733690251
Bitter Springs wasn't even a war crime. It was just a battle that the Khans lost so bad that to try to save some dignity they frame themselves as victims.

>>733690292
>Meanwhile the legion thinks what they did at Nipton was heroic
It was. It was a masterful victory. Almost no Legion casualty. An entire city of NCR scum killed, and a huge punch to NCR morale. It was masterful.

>>733690298
there are literal child slaves in the Legion camp, please stop this retarded nonsense

>>733690306
>like subjects
That's a vague statement
For all we know they could have carted off most of the population as slaves

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>>733689748
>There are no civilians in the legion. Period. You are a slave or you are Caesar
You know, except for the Caravan NPC who tells you otherwise and the fact that Legion terroritory objectively has independent cities. Youre not a "citizen" youre a "subject". The only people they amalgamate by slavery or military at all costs are tribals as stated in game

Glad over a decade later we still have Legion whiners lmao

>>733690257
What the fuck was Avellone filling up that much dialogue with for a Legion companion before all the Bear Bull Bear Bull Old World Bear Bull nonsense for the DLC?

>>733690352
I know you're baiting but you made this one too obvious

>>733690352
Calm down, Vulpes.

daily reminder that there's literally 0 proof anything Ulysses says is true and all the things he says you did are metaphorical descriptions of the plot of the DLC itself
he's the greatest video game antagonist of all time because he filters retards who are too stupid to not uncritically believe everything a fictional character says to the point of madness and unending seething

>>733690281
>No you see rapists are worse than literal murderers because it's convenient for me right now. Most of Nitpon raped women most probably, too.
Amoral NCR scum.

>>733690367
>there are literal child slaves in the Legion camp, please stop this retarded nonsense
Wrong. They are proud Legionaries in training. They love being there.

>>733690376
>For all we know they could have carted off most of the population as slaves
We do know that didn't happen though because when it does happen (like when Meyers decides to fight back) it's explicitly mentioned.

>>733690352
And then the courier showed up and blew Vulpes' faggot ass sky high

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>>733689527
>This is all in your non-canon head.
You are high if you think the legionaries are not fucking the slaves. There's even a line in the game
>The new slave girls are quite beautiful.
which says it without saying it. In the Roman legion, it was completely legal to kill, rape or enslave enemies during war. There is absolutely no reason to think that Caesar has made raping slaves illegal if he allows them to be killed in bloodsports. And don't hit me with the "it's not mentioned in-game" because neither is Saturn but I can still reasonably assume it's there.
I don't care if the legion rapes slaves, it's pretty low on my list of 'bad things they do' but they definitely do it.

>>733690402
>My brain is too small to appreciate strategy.
No wonder you support the NCR.

>>733676258
Because it was a bad DLC to a bad game and anything else is just coping to deal with that fact.

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Ncr will force people to sell land if you refuse they hire mercenaries to kill you and take it. Legion is honest with their evil ncr hides behind a sinister smile. Death to all house always wins

>>733690401
From what I understand, his companion quest involved him possibly changing his alliance from the Legion to whatever the Courier was supporting (and in the case of a Legion run, strengthening his conviction towards it) and as such he had a shit load of dialogue because he essentially had 4 possible character arcs.

>>733690349
>>733690348
>It doesn't count because... they are the good guys!

>>733690306
Primm is enslaved, unless Meyers is made the sheriff, in which case they briefly resist enslavement and are exterminated.
Novac (I assume you mean Novac, because Nipton was wiped out before the game started) is abandoned by its entire population before the Legion arrive if you help them win the battle of hoover dam.
Dale Barton never says that anyone is free in the legion. Only that they are kept safe from being attacked on the roads. It's also worth noting that he talks to you while completely surrounded by Legion troops.

daily reminder that there's literally 0 blatant denials you can do to anything Ulysses says and all the things he says you did are metaphorical nonsense babble words without any real meaning besides trying to pay lip service to the alleged theme of DLC itself
he's the worst video game antagonist of all time because he makes half witted retards who are too stupid to not uncritically assume a poorly written character has to be 2deep4you instead of just a poor attempt at what was maybe an interesting concept

>>733690504
Why work for house when I can BECOME Mr House and make all the families my employees as an aggressive takeover? Yes Man chads stay winning

>>733690415
>everything he says is fake!
>nothing matters!
What was the point of the dlc then?

>>733690303
>Noo killing evil people is baaaaad

>>733690352
>An entire city of NCR scum
They weren't NCR. Neveda is not NCR. You fucking retard.

>>733690473
Didn't the NCR won against the Legion with strategy on Hoover Dam?
>>733690509
>can't name another atrocity
Lmao

>>733676258
i liked him

Could/would the Legion assimilate the Fiends?

>>733690573
it isn't, which is way wiping out the Caesar's Tent is always the highlight of all my NV runs :)

>>733690575
>Neveda is not NCR.
You tell that to an NCR soldier and he will shoot you.

>>733690589
The NCR won by sacrificing an entire city and most of its veterans. Garbage strategy.

>>733690615
legion are fiercely anti-drugs, they won't even use stimpacks; fiends will be genocided

>>733690381
>You know, except for the Caravan NPC who tells you otherwise and the fact that Legion terroritory objectively has independent cities.
He says nothing of the sort. He says HE is an independent trader, walking all over the south west, including in NCR territory. He never says or implies that legion subjects are in any way free.

>>733690509
people are literally saying that the legion's atrocities don't count because they are the good guys in this very thread though

>>733690540
dude you got filtered harder then any radiation while wearing Ulysses' mask lol.

>>733690615
if you don't do Three Card Bounty and then side with the Legion, they slaughter all of them for being chem addicts

>>733690627
I know you are evil. No need to inform us.

>>733690649
Now you are lying. Typical NCR drone.

>>733690436
>No you see rapists are worse than literal murderers
The people of Nipton were not murderers
>Most of Nitpon raped women most probably, too.
No, they didn't.
>Amoral NCR scum.
Nipton wasn't even NCR
Legion tards are so fucking stupid and evil that it almost defies belief.

>>733690530
>Primm is enslaved
No it's not.
>Despite NCR's pledge to support Primm, they abandon the town after their loss to Caesar. Though Caesar keeps Primm open for business, its citizens live under the constant watch of Legion soldiers.
>Novac (I assume you mean Novac,
Sorry, I meant Goodsprings.
>Dale Barton never says that anyone is free in the legion.
He doesn't say their slaves either. But he does say that free traders like himself are better in legion territory

>>733690637
If the Legion failed against a supposed garbage strategy then what does that say about them?

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>muh 10 int oc donut steel courier
Ewwww cringe

>>733690615
No , raiders and chem users are all executed en masse. They only target tribals to press gang into the military and everyone else has to pay taxes or if they put up any fight instead of roll over are all mass murdered or enslaved.

>>733690303
The NCR as it stands wont last another generation. It has about as much shelf life as the Legion. They will be plagued by its technological dependence, resource depletion, and infighting which will turn them into a mess of squabbling states.

>>733690692
>The people of Nipton were not murderers
The fucking mayor was more than happy to murder the entire city for a bunch of caps.

>>733690637
>You tell that to an NCR soldier and he will shoot you.
What the fuck are you talking about retard?

>>733690662
>seething
>malding
Lmao

>>733690750
yeah the guy who wrote this >>733690540 was definitely seething alright

>>733690702
It was a pyrrhic victory for the NCR. The Legion regrouped faster, too. The NCR couldn't.

>>733690779
>projecting
KEKAROO

>>733690739
And Vulpes was more than happy to murder the entire city because he thought it was fun

>>733690649
Except for cities like Two Sun and the other cities objectively in Legion territory? Pretty sure Raul talks about it and comments that he actually appreciated the Legion in making Two Sun a decent city after they killed all the raiders

>>733690693
>No it's not.
Yes it is
>Sorry, I meant Goodsprings.
Ignored and largely abandoned, because people don't want to live under the legion, because the legion are evil psychopaths who will enslave you at best
>He doesn't say their slaves either.
He literally tells you that he's not even comfortable complaining about Lanius slaughtering one of his pack Brahmin for incidentally being in his walking path. Even he is already a slave, he's just pretending he can't see the collar.
>But he does say that free traders like himself are better in legion territory
He says it's more profitable.

>>733690703
Shut up boomer in a can. You'll never leaving earth.

>>733690795
Irrelevant to the point. Nobody in that filthy city was innocent.

>>733690739
>The fucking mayor was more than happy to murder the entire city for a bunch of caps.
That was one guy, also he thought that the Legion were going to kill the handful of NCR soldiers on leave, not the whole fucking town. And even if you weren't wrong, what's worse, being willing to let people die, or actually killing people?

>>733690817
Meanwhile the NCR will tax you to poverty and steal your land while they drain their sources of water so some brahmin barons make a couple of shekels more.

>>733690817
>Lanius slaughtering one of his pack Brahmin for incidentally being in his walking path
People keep missing the fact that the legion is made up of psychos like this

>NCR need to go home and get their shit in order instead of bleeding men dealing with a desert shithole
>Legion are just evil
>the courier is just a mailman
>Rob House is a literal genius with a plan to rebuild the rest of Vegas using funds from the Strip and build up a science hub to eventually colonize space
I don't get why I'm supposed to side with either big faction or do Yes Man when House is clearly the best option for the Las Vegas area.

>>733690649
Also im not saying the subjects are "free" lol they are essentially peasants that the Legion can order around however they want and have to pay tribute to the Legion. You are more free in NCR or any territory really im just saying that not everyone in Legion terriritory is either in the military or a slave / concubine.

>>733690806
Two Sun was a preexisting city which the Legion conquered and enslaved. Raul sweet talks them because they slaughtered all the cartel psychopaths that killed his sister. I wonder how he would feel if his sister had lived long enough to be turned into a sex slave by the legion?

>>733690883
That still sounds better than a life of backbreaking slave labor where you could be brutally murdered at any moment for a legionnaires amusement to be honest

>>733690945
Except not everyone in Legion territory is a slave lmao. Raul praised the Legion not just for killing the raiders but for making their territory safe

>>733690973
That only happens to raiders and NCR scum.

>"You sold pens and pencils to a company that did a bad thing... now you must die."
Ulysses motivation was retarded.

>>733690817
>Yes it is
It doesn't say that though
>Ignored and largely abandoned, because people don't want to live under the legion,
People move under the NCR too, so I guess they're equally evil psychopaths that enslave people
>He literally tells you that he's not even comfortable complaining about Lanius slaughtering
And? What does have to do with anything? Siri is a literal slave and she doesn't lie to you about life in the Legion. You don't have a point. There's no indication that Dale is lying.
>He says it's more profitable.
Right, which means what, for a guy that sells for a living?

>>733676258
Because Chris Avellone wanted to tie a nice little bow on Fallout: NV and give it a true linear ending. The most damning part about it all is that he was supposed to be a companion in the original game with a very long questline, but it was cut for time and when it turned into a hit, Avellone wanted to bring him back but as the opposite for the player character. The problem is at this point, since it's the endgame, he's saying all of this shit and every single player character is just going to have a simple, "But for me, it was Tuesday" reaction.

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Some fanart.

>>733690883
The NCR could undergo peaceful or strifeful reform. The Legion is much worse than the NCR is now and can only ever get worse by the very nature of its conceit.
>>733690935
>im just saying that not everyone in Legion terriritory is either in the military or a slave / concubine.
Fair enough, though I would clarify that anyone of them COULD be made to be as such, if the need was perceived.

The existence of slavery at all is monstrously evil and justifies the legion being destroyed

>>733691004
They made the territory safe by killing all the raiders. That's it. that's their one positive feature. They kill all the other evil psychopath gangsters.

See, this is why Fallout 3 is better, no autistic shit-flinging

>>733691063
>I would clarify that anyone of them COULD be made to be as such, if the need was perceived.
I mean pretty much yeah, its far from a free society by any means you are a subject to whatever the hell the Legion says and if your argue youre dead

>>733690949
Right, that settles this discussion.
I wish more of these things were archived
I don't care how much of a basedfag he is, Sawyer has some pretty insightful commentary about the game and fiction in general

>>733690949
NCR drones will ignore this.

>>733691043
>It doesn't say that though
It does
>People move under the NCR too,
They don't flee from the NCR in terror
>And? What does have to do with anything?
A merchant had his property and means to do his business arbitrarily violated with absolutely no recourse from the whim of a superior ranked legionnaire. He couldn't even make a claim for compensation. He is a slave.
>Right, which means what, for a guy that sells for a living?
He tells you, that he has to hire less bodyguards in Arizona than Nevada. Not that Nevada is even formally part of the NCR, just currently occupied by it.

>>733691106
Yeah literally that's the point of the Legion vs NCR
>freedom and chaos
Vs
>authority and order

>>733691063
>could
Meanwhile Caesar himself said The Legion will be reformed once New Vegas falls under his control.

>>733691083
Slavery is a gift to the raider scum that would rape your mother and murder your entire family for a hit of Psycho

>>733691156
He clearly states that legion "citizens" can be killed or enslaved or have their homes taken at any time and they just have to live with it

>>733691221
>can be killed or enslaved or have their homes taken at any time
And he clearly states they don't do this.

>>733691110
>Sarah dies in battle right after being appointed elder and a line of shitty elders replace her until eventually the bitch Maxson takes over
shit's so ass

>>733691156
I'm not ignoring it. If you are constantly ordered around under pain of death, you are a slave. Sawyer doesn't understand this because he's a redditor who thinks the only kind of slavery is picking crops in a field while someone whips you.

>>733691219
the legion are raider scum who rape people thoughever
they are just upset that they don't have a monopoly on the raping

>>733691031
I mean, yes that is kind of the point. Ulysses has been so damaged by watching everything he cared for getting destroyed time and time again, while being powerless to stop it, that it is breaking his mind. He's getting so lost in symbols and symbolism that he is using what little context clues he has to piece it all together as some grand conspiracy, with Courier Six at the heart of it.
He's a skilled, capable man, just one that got thrown to the mercy of the Wastes, and was always found wanting.

>>733691204
California is as safe as Arizona. Safer, when you stop pretending the arbitrary cruelty and evil of the legion itself doesn't count as "chaos"

>>733691297
Wrong! The Legion doesn't raid. It conquers. The glorious Legion will rule the wasteland.

>>733691272
That was probably forced because it was possible Sarah never survived the orignal ending/start of Broken Steel.

>>733691198
>It does
Screenshot where it says slaves
>They don't flee from the NCR in terror
But they flee the same
>A merchant had his property and means to do his business arbitrarily violated with absolutely no recourse from the whim of a superior ranked legionnaire
NCR literally occupies the Mojave without right or compensation. Moreno says NCR citizens are trying to kick him out of his house
Also nice how you pretend your point about him lying because he's under duress was completely debunked
>He tells you, that he has to hire less bodyguards in Arizona than Nevada
He tells you that trading is better in Legion territory

>>733691289
But people aren't constantly ordered around. It says so there. Besides, if you are chill and stay in line you'll never be hurt, unlike the NCR that just steals your land.

>>733691271
>If the Legion tells someone to do something, they only ask once -- even if that means the entire community has to pick up and move fifty miles away
What do you think this means
The Legion kills and steals from people in their territory with impunity

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>>733691053

>>733691219
>Meanwhile Caesar himself said The Legion will be reformed once New Vegas falls under his control.
He's a retard. It can't, by design. He expects the legion to just suddenly pick up all of the cultural ideals he spent decades making sure every one of them was raised from childhood or even birth to believe is fundamentally evil. Were he to actually suggest this as an order, he would be put down and replaced by Lanius, who represents what the legion actually is, and would burn everything between the colorado and the pacific, within his power to do so.

>>733690949
the Roman aesthetics throw people for a loop, but the way the Legion works is way closer to a horse-less Mongol khanate. The Mongols were absolutely brutal to other nomadic tribes, or to settleoids who picked fights with them, but settled societies that submitted to the Mongols and paid their taxes on time would be basically unmolested other than that

>>733691326
California is currently being destroyed by brahmin barons while the NCR does nothing.

>>733691397
It says nothing about constantly being ordered around. At most they'll demand something from you every other year.

>>733691426
It's implied they can demand anything, including homes and slaves

>>733691420
Now this is headcanon maxxing

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>>733691053
.
>>733691143
https://fallout.fandom.com/wiki/Joshua_Sawyer_Formspring_posts
Great reads.

>>733691464
It is also stated they really don't. They aren't unfair. The Legion is fair.

>>733691289
You're retarded
It says right there the orders are rare.
Life under the legion is stable, comfortable and secure but isn't free.
It's drawing an argument between safety vs security, where you have the more liberal but inefficient NCR contrasting with the dictatorial but competent legion

>>733691467
>braindead illiterate tribals are suddenly going to put down their weapons and pick up a philosophy book because ceasar says so

>>733691326
>California is as safe as Arizona
Unless the Brahmin barons, van graffs, or the warring families in New Reno have anything to say about it? Nowhere in the wastes is "safe" , legion territory is "safer" because all raiders are killed without mercy and there is 0 political independence allowed to even allowed gangs or Raiders to form. NCR is far more decentralized and has issues with crime and corruption so your main threats comes from that, the Legion just mass subjugates anyone in its territory so your main threat is almost always the Legion itself or if mutants show up before the Legion comes and wipes them out or something.

>>733691539
>Further headcanonmaxxing

>>733691539
I was gonna say that's basically what Ulysses did, but I guess this thread kinda proves that also didn't work out so well for him so...

>>733691504
They are "fair" in the sense that they believe everything they do is just and anyone who disagrees needs to be destroyed

>>733691539
>braindead illiterate tribals are suddenly going to put down their weapons and pick up a philosophy book because ceasar says so
Actually, yes. The Legion does whatever Caesar says.

>>733691595
>They are "fair" in the sense that they believe everything they do is just and anyone who disagrees needs to be destroyed
But enough about the NCR.

>>733691504
I supposed the whole "chopping off people's heads because they ran afoul of a Legionaire" shit is fair as well

>>733691616
>Actually, yes. The Legion does whatever Caesar says.
And it worked so fucking well when Ulysses tried to do this.

>>733691345
>Screenshot where it says slaves
The part where he admits he's completely at the arbitrary whims of the people he trades with and they could just take his shit and kill him if they felt like it
>But they flee the same
No they don't.
>NCR literally occupies the Mojave without right or compensation.
The only settlement the NCR occupies which was occupied before the NCR arrived was done so as part of a treaty with its mayor which served to greatly enrich said mayor.
>Moreno says NCR citizens are trying to kick him out of his house
Monero is fucking enclave, he's making a veiled reference to them kicking the enslave out of the oil rig in fallout 2.
>He tells you that trading is better in Legion territory
He tells you it's more profitable in legion territory
>Also nice how you pretend your point about him lying because he's under duress was completely debunked
It's not.
>>733691376
>Besides, if you are chill and stay in line you'll never be hurt,
Unless a decanus or centurion decides he wants to fuck your wife or daughter. Or the legion has decided that they need more meat for the Mohave and tell you to dawn the football pads and grab your machete.
>unlike the NCR that just steals your land.
It literally says in the post that you're quoting that the legion will just steal your land, and kill you if you complain.

>>733691616
The difference being the legion thinks it's perfectly just to kill people for crossing their path even in their own territory
The merchant who everyone says praises the legion is the source for this

>absolute no body back home, every fucking hates him
>Meanwhile the real ceaser was a noble, had public support and some senators on his side, decorated general, and accomplished statesmen
Ceaser is more like a mongol invader lol

>>733691692
Ulysses is a fucking schizophrenic moron. The Legion also has geniuses like Vulpus.

>>733691426
>California is currently being destroyed by brahmin barons
"m-muh brahmin barons", guess we gotta throw away all our penicillin and turn into a bunch of degenerate rapist slavers!

>>733691493
I've noticed that everyone who draws the Courier in Riot Gear, always has a shattered mask for an eye to pop out, which to be fair does look really fucking cool.

>>733691721
Nigger how about you don't cross their path? They don't go out of their way to fuck with you. YOU have to go out of your way to fuck with them.

>>733691543
California isn't "the wastes". Yes, Nevada is dangerous. Nevada isn't the NCR. Shit like the Van Graffs offing competition around New Vegas is only possible because they are largely free from scrutiny outside of NCR territory.

>>733691728
I hate to break it to you, but realistically the Legion is going to have a lot more Ulysses then Vulpes.

>>733691754
How that baron cock taste like?

The legion is jewish, it forces interracial marriage to make a servile brown underclass who serves a man from a group that calls outsiders gentiles. The only reason /pol/ likes it is cause its mean to women, and the average /pol/tard would sell the entire white race into slavery for 1000 years if it meant a woman suffered.

>>733691769
They do go out of their way to fuck with people though? He says Lanius killed one of his cows just because he could
The legion are all psychos who love random violence

>>733691728
>Vulpes
>ever willingly stopping the slaughter of degenerates
lol
lmao
you might as well say that Lanius will be happy if he's told to put down his sword and pick up a book on crochet

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>>733691409
Always good
>>733691493
Not seen that art.

>>733691616
>Actually, yes. The Legion does whatever Caesar says.
The moment Eddy, the profligate with brain cancer, tries to tell the legion to abandon its basic founding principles, he will find that he is no longer Caesar. You would think someone with at least a passing knowledge of Roman history would know the fate of most of its emperors, especially its barracks emperors.

>>733691806
Yes but those many Ulysses will blindly follow every order the few Vulpes give them.

>>733691714
>The part where
SCREENSHOT
>No they don't.
They literally do
>The only settlement the NCR occupies which was occupied before the NCR arrived
No? You think no one lived in the region the sharecroppers are?
>Monero is fucking enclave, he's making a veiled reference to them kicking the enslave out of the oil rig in fallout 2.
No he isn't, are you retarded? He's literally saying his house.
>He tells you it's more profitable in legion territory
Which is better for a trader
>It's not
Proof?

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>>733690703
God, between house and enclave I couldn't choose
(Enclave not dead todd can't stop bringing them back lol)
https://youtu.be/5_kc1PspBxY?si=0tYPi2p_bg0u55Ac

>>733691838
>Muh hecking cow with 2 heads!
Stupid cow should have moved out of his glorious way.

>>733691723
Was he too embarrassed to call himself the Khan because the Khans already existed?
Retard couldn't even get his LARP right

>>733691839
Caesar commands, the Legion obeys. They aren't Americans that never follow orders and rape whatever they have on sight.

>>733691723
Caesar doesn't have a home to return to, dummy. New Vegas will be his Rome.

spear chucking tribal niggas running around half naked are the worst lamest about fallout which makes the legion the lamest faction

Muh degenerate drunk US cosplayers are better

>>733691894
>SCREENSHOT
Play the game fag
>They literally do
Name one person who flees from the NCR in terror. Even the fucking KHANS are more willing to side with the NCR than the Legion when they understand what the Legion is and will do to them.
>No? You think no one lived in the region the sharecroppers are?
Probably fucking not, no, as most of the houses in the area even during the game are abandoned.
>No he isn't, are you retarded? He's literally saying his house.
You literally don't know who Moreno is lmao
>Which is better for a trader
Not the only thing that matters. I think basic rights matter more.
>Proof?
He's surrounded by soldiers. Obviously he can't fully speak his mind.

It's kinda interesting to me, that a lot of people read Ulysses as someone who is trying to be all philosophical and/or patronizing, and to be fair it's pretty easy to think that's the case, but in reality it just isn't true.
He talks in cryptic metaphors and symbols, because he's from a tribe that built an entire language/culture around symbols. English was his second language, and it was basically beaten into him. And it seems that in his time away from the Legion, he is, possibly without realizing it, going more and more "tribal." He grows out his dreads, he starts looking for symbols everywhere, can't help but wonder what the meaning of them is, and it's starting to affect his speech as well.

>>733691795
>california isnt the wastes
The whole US is still a wasteland filled with mutants and raiders and california still has that issue, especially Baja. Again its "safer" and more developed but its still the wastes and New Reno is still a crime ridden shithole. The NCR is consistently shown to be corrupt as hell

>>733691723
That's the point. A major recurring theme of the game in fact. Almost every faction in the game is extremely different from the original meaning of their symbology.

The problem with the idea of reforming the Legion is the the Legion, by design, rewards the most sadistic and evil fucks.
>Graham
>Lanius
>Vulpes
Caesar didn't actually plan for any peace or reformation ahead when these psychos who get off on the massacres they perform are the types of people he picks to be in positions of power specifically because they're good at killing people they don't like.
Best case scenario for Caesar is a schism that ends with the worst leaving peacefully to go ravage elsewhere. And that's very unlikely.

>>733692135
Baja is mexico. It will never be safe, not even under the legion
>The NCR is consistently shown to be corrupt as hell
Better to have fair rules that get bent then fucking evil retarded rules that are always followed to the letter

>>733692191
You can't tame the wasteland with pacifist, Anon. Don't be like the Followers of the Apocalypse.

>>733692191
Yeah really. If somehow Caesar did manage to make grounds into California proper, the moment he started trying to integrate NCR institutions into the Legion, Lanius would cut his fucking head off, and none of of the praetorians except maybe Lucius would dare or even want to oppose him for doing so.

>>733692206
>Fair corrupted leaders
That's an oxymoron you moron.

>>733676258
His character hinges on a backstory for you blank slate character than got stapled on last minute and expects you to care about it at all. It's just a bad idea from the conceptual level and I don't know what Avellone was thinking.

>>733692250
There's a mile wide line between pacifism and being a degenerate mass murdering rapist psychopath.

>>733692295
Lanius will never, ever betray Caesar. Did you even play the game?

>>733692206
>Baja will never be safe
Nope, the Enclave would have to genocide the entire area to make it even sort of safe

>Better to have fair rules that get bent then fucking evil retarded rules that are always followed to the letter
Yeah that's the argument. California still has raiders , corrupt oligarchs, crime families etc but youre free. Legion is nothing but subjects, no raiders or crime families, but you can get raped by Legion if they so desire and you have no say in it.

>>733692296
How about you try reading the post again dipshit
>>733692334
Lanius is fundamentally loyal to the legion above all else, largely because he completely embodies its ideals. What do you think he would do if Eddy started to so brazenly contradict those ideals? I'll give you a hint: Lanius's condition for joining the legion in the first place was to be allowed to exterminate ever man in his tribe for not fighting to the death.

>>733692330
>degenerate mass murdering rapist psychopath.
You mean the raiders the Legion destroy?

>>733692405
the raiders the Legion recruits

>>733692405
Both. And at least against the lesser gangs you can conceivably fight back and win. Hell, the legion will even empower those lesser gangs to attack peaceful settlements if they're not in a position where the legion can spare the forces to properly "integrate" them.

>>733692403
>How about you try reading the post again dipshit
How about you play the game instead?
>>733692403
>Lanius is fundamentally loyal to the legion above all else
Wrong! Lanius is fundamentally loyal to Caesar and nobody else.

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>>733692250
You still need the Followers of the Apocalypse though, they can't exist within legion ideology
>>733692334
The problem they would have is that NCR officials would have to be integrated into leadership positions, I cant see them being super happy with having to share power with bureaucrats or God forbid having to take orders from them

The Legion is too dumb to rule over civilized areas which is why they either wipe them out of leave them alone

>>733692403
>Lanius is fundamentally loyal to the legion above all else
https://youtu.be/5o1QfnDfUkA?t=75

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legionnaire squatting down to pick up a bottlecap and flashing you his junk

>>733692464
>Lanius is fundamentally loyal to Caesar
Who is "Caesar"? WHAT is "Caesar"? Do you think it's some dipshit follower of the apocalypse named Eddy, no matter what he says?

>>733692460
>the legion will even empower those lesser gangs to attack peaceful settlements if they're not in a position where the legion can spare the forces to properly "integrate" them
more or less what they were doing with the Khans
take a local raider crew, hype them up with lies and promises of glory, point them at the land you want to conquer, then stab them in the back, kill their men, and take their women as prizes when the job's done

>>733692505
>The problem they would have is that NCR officials would have to be integrated into leadership positions, I cant see them being super happy with having to share power with bureaucrats or God forbid having to take orders from them
They will do whatever Caesar tells them to.

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>>733692601
That sound awful

>>733691759
It’s symbolic, it shows that underneath the military armor there is still a living, breathing, thinking human whose enemies have to look in the eye when the Courier confronts them. The player isn’t faceless like an NCR Ranger or Lanius, they’re there, right in the middle of the conflict, sight unobscured, every decision taken head-on, and all consequences accepted.

And also it looks really fucking cool.

>>733692635
and what happens when Caesar dies of his brain tumor

>>733692694
His successor (The Courier) will take command.

>>733692505
a story set after a Legion victory where Caesar or his successor has to create his own Yuan Dynasty and try to synthesize settled institutions with the Legion's command structure while both continuing the war against the NCR and preventing hardline Legionaries from breaking off the eastern reaches of the empire would be so kino
god I wish Marco Polo hadn't been canceled

>>733692724
>his successor
Fanfic or "cut content"?

>>733692767
We are talking about the future here, little bro.

Lanius is only loyal to Caesar, not the Legion. He only cares about battle and conquest. It's why the ending where he becomes the new Caesar shows him salting the Earth and literally murdering everything and everyone in sight, whereas if Caesar survives the tumor he actually turns New Vegas into the Legion's Rome.

>>733692669
>"tomboy" in the military
>has earrings
do words even mean things anymore?

>>733676258
just say "this guy was poorly written" you don't have to hide your hot take in the supposition of a question. The only additional attention your thread gets is from me.

>>733692767
It's his fanfic
I had a somewhat similar idea where cause I was so fucking mad at the show house gets pissed shady sands got nuked so he would send his last securitron to kill the father character, named "courier"

>>733692724
okay now THIS is headcannon maxxing. It's not even clear if the Courier sticks around in either NCR or Legion based endings.

>>733692669
watching femboys die around you truly forges the toughest men

>>733692885
Anon, we are talking about stuff after the ending of the game. It is not far fetched to believe Caesar will name a successor after taking New Vegas.

>>733692593
Caesar has fundamentally misunderstood who Lanius is and what he represents. Much as he is fundamentally wrong about his legion being a civilizing force (they are shown throughout the game to be increasingly evil, subversive, and insane in their desperate attempts at victory).

In Lanius's own words, "I am the first of the Legion". Caesar mistakes Lanius's casual disregard for human life as a disdain for its men. No, he sees such destruction as a form of testing and purification.

>>733692882
No fucking way that happens

>>733692804
Got it, so just like how the courier gets elected president of the NCR if he sides with them.

>>733676258
because he was setting up for the very poorly written show
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CvmAY4MRVLA

>>733692694
he impregnates my courier and she gives birth to his heir, easy

>>733692967
Are you saying the Hero of Mojave would not be popular enough to win an election against the losers who are currently in power?

>>733692939
He's already named Lanius as his heir and successor. Your reward for your service is stated in the ending: they cast coinage with your face on it

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>>733692957
Sorry to say but the show actually happened, NCR is dead or whatever (why would they go to Vegas in the game they were already stretched thin and in the show they're hanging on by scraps) and ceasers legion is just like the kahns, praise be to todd for he has fixed the lore

>>733693030
>He's already named Lanius as his heir and successor.
No, he didn't. Lanius just takes control because nobody is willing to say no to him. Yes, the Courier being his successor is my fanfict because we are talking about stuff after the game so there's no real canon there.

>>733693089
Understood, Nuka Break is still the real Fallout show adaptation.

>>733676258
He filters midwits who can't tell he's supposed to be a flawed character

We can all agree that Vickers's combat armor is the sexiest and the upgraded riot suits look like trash, right?

Can't the NCRbros and LegionCHADS be friends?

>>733693424
Yes, except for the helmet with its green eyes and cringe writing on it.

>>733690230
Deimos art always goes hard

speaking of legion, why cant vulpes take over instead of lanius? vulpes at least had caesar's subtlety, lanius seems like a full on meathead

>>733691842
>would think someone with at least a passing knowledge of Roman history would know the fate of most of its emperors
The Crisis of the 3rd century was the exception not the norm

>>733693740
Cause lanius would cave vulpes skull in and vulpes is smart enough to know that.

So... do you guys have anymore of them Legion pics?

>>733693740
Because Lanius would put Vulpes on a cross and not lose a second of sleep.

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>>733693482
No

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>>733693883
yeah i got one right here just for you, amicus

>>733693740
Lanius would object to the notion of a female caesar and when Vulpes tried to explain he was a dude Lanius would tear off his cock and balls

>>733693752
>hannibal/punic wars
>caesar(real) deaths/civil war
>nero
>byzantine split
Meh, rome basically seesawed between collapse and strongest empire in the med every 100 years.

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>>733693509
>he hates writing on helmets
That's an iconic 'Nam thing, though.

>>733694028
What about the Pax Romana?

>>733693752
Most Roman emperors were assassinated, executed, or forced to kill themselves. Most of those deserved it, but most of the best emperors were also killed by Romans.

>>733693997
*sad Latin noises*

>>733694095
>the one time rome went 150 years without collapsing instead of the average of 75
Rome and the med were stable but the frontiers werent. But yes that is the longest period of roman stability.

>>733694028
The Crisis of the 3rd century is why the emperors skew more towards assassinations mainly

>>733694329
Come on, bro. It was like 200 years, not 150.

>>733694095
Lasted not even 100 years under 5 emperors, the last of which passed rule to an evil and incompetent son who ruined the empire until being drowned in a bathtub by a servant.

>>733694502
Im counting it after the battle of teutoburg not before. You dont get to claim 2 centuries of peace then lose 3 legions 40 years in.

>>733694501
>>733694668
Fuck.

>>733690230
This is the best Legion art I've ever seen. It could be in one of those poster inserts physical games used to have.