Is the current state of Pokémon the fault of Nintendo or Game Freak?
>>733720142Yes
Game Freak. It's always been Game Freak. Nintendo begged them to at least accept development help and they refused.
People shit on switch Pokémon for the graphics but the gameplay is also worse than previous gens
>>733720142The fans.
>>733720142Neither. It's TPC.Gamefreak develops the game but they are given little time and no budget.Nintendo owns like a third of the franchise and do not have full reign of it.TPC has actively refused to get help from Nintendo when they offered to bring more developers from Square Enix and expand their budget.
Nintendo put out better-looking, better-running, and better-playing games than Pokemon throughout the Switch 1's lifetime. It sure as fuck isn't them.
>>733720261is it? Gen 1 games were some extremely lazy and boring gameplay, the new games are way more interesting to build and play.
>>733720142The fans that accept this level of quality.
>>733720626>Gen 1Really scraping the bottom of the barrel for a counterexample huh?
>>733720142The leaks tell us it's bothGame Freak devs' fault, for being incompetentGame Freak managers' fault, for mismanaging their gamesGame Freak executives' fault, for keeping their teams locked down with tiny budgets and pushing out MasudaTPC's fault, for not investing in the games and just leeching off merch foreverNintendo's fault, for not using their partial ownership to do fucking anything, except take the series for granted as a system sellerAnd last of all, the goyim's fault, for continuing to gobble up whatever Pokeslop they out and incentivizing this behavior.
>>733720142It's definitely not Gamefreak, when the Leak happened we got to see videos of the actual game during early development, it had proper high res textures and geometry, better lightning, etc. The game was pretty much done, but at some point later everything got flattened out, like they ran out of time or money and had to finish it 1 year earlier. This shows that they needed more time and more people working on it. So who controls that? that's your culprit, not the devs.https://youtu.be/3sdVmay2ky0?si=FvbvQXAzRT-7tfc9&t=2004
>>733720665This is the correct answer.
>>733720261Not true, scarlet/violet allows you to avoid random encounters,power through whatever part of the game you want at any time, slightly sped up battles to not have so much lag between moves as prev gens, do autobattles, and finally gave more objectives/storylines than just challenging gym leaders.
>>733720261SV is peak pokemon when it comes to gameplay but it's also top 2 worse graphics, only beaten by SwSh
>>733720142the fans, nintard cultists, are 99% responsible for the dogshit slop they receive, the rest is the developer's faultyes, it's ALL nintards, not just pokespicsif i were nintardo or lamefreak, i too would abuse the fuck out of the fact that my slop has cultivated the most rabid and unhinged bootlicker trannies in the entire industrywhy would i put effort if i already knew retarded childless kikeslave goycattle mantoddlers will buy my slop and defend me anyway?
>>733720261fuck off doomfag
Both of those are good games doe
>>733720142normgroids love their graffix. hardware upgrades are killing the seriesanyway, if the games weren't glitchfests with everyone acting fucking like your gay bff, and they stopped drinking the DEI/ESG kool-aid, people wouldn't be so caustic towards it
>>733720142>Gamefreak make a game that's not on a fisherprice toy>instantly look a billion time betterYea I wonder
>>733720720I'm still saying they made it worse out of spite because Jewtendo refuse to give them more money even though they make billions
>>733721298Why would they manually craft the buildings and other assets only to change them all to flat textures later? From the leaks the devs were not happy that they had to make those changes and it happened late in development too.
>>733720142We have leaks of their conversations. Nintendo wanted to help them multiple times giving parts of their games to other studios to help but game freak said fuck off we will do everything alone. They are extremely retarded.
>>733721398>changes to the specificationsFeels like they were forced to downscale it for the switch 1 version
>>733720142It's obviously gamefreakThere are loads of valid complaints for the state of Nintendo's other franchises but none of them come close this lazy, buggy, slop
>>733720142if they made the texture smooth as fuck on the right pic instead of that obvious pattern it wouldn't look as bad imo
>>733721446>Nintendo come and tells you they don't actually need you to make the game and they can give it to other studios instead>Do you accept?Yea I wonder why they said no
>>733720626Gen 1 is not the previous games.
>>733720665>Nintendo's fault, for not using their partial ownership to do fucking anythingWhat exactly do you think a minority share lets them do here? if Game Freak and The Pokemon company are both happy with the current situation, what power does nintendo have to overrule them when their outvoted 2 to 1?
>>733720750>bad thing>bad thing>band-aid fix>should've been effortless>arbitrary and meaninglessYeah, that's directly worse than what came before.
>>733721051anon, we had impressive-looking games in the ps2 and ps3 erasome ps1 games still look presentable to this dayit's a lack of care from the suits
>>733721812Afaik It's 33% Nintendo, 33% GF, and 33% Creatures
>>733720142Most people will buy the games and then move onto the next game without looking into most of the faults. I finally started to pay attention when Pokemon ZA got DLC day one as a pre order. They ask for way too much money as is with the double packs.
>>733721812They can dictate lots of things. Every Pokemon game has gimmick features that tie into the console they're on or some bundled piece of hardware. Game Freak isn't developing that or directing it, that's Nintendo. Game Freak isn't deciding when the games get published, Game Freak isn't deciding which platforms they release on, Game Freak doesn't have the final say on approving the game and its content for the platform. It's all Nintendo.If Nintendo said "we need a higher fidelity experience for this new console" and put their foot down while at the same time bankrolling help from support studios, they could get it done.They just don't, because it sells on the name only so who cares.
>>733721051Game Freak didn't make that game. It's basically a couple GF employees managing the project and then the rest of the game is entirely outsourced.
>>733721730They said no because they are retarded. The franchise is already shared between them. Helping won't change anything.
>>733721823>avoiding random encounters badholy shit you're a fucking retard. repels were in the very first pokemon. even dragon quest had those. only wish it had been a toggle instead of having to re-open the menu.no one wants games where you go>loading screen>enter battle>hit run away>sometimes get hit once, probably scratch damage. at worst you lose a couple of turns because of paralysis/sleep/whatever>another loading screen>back to mapespecially when you're backtracking and revisiting old areas where you kill everything by breathing
the paypigs for supporting the slop
>>733722054>If Nintendo said "we need a higher fidelity experience for this new console" and put their foot down while at the same time bankrolling help from support studios, Game freak would tell them "fuck off". we've already seen that conversation in the leaks.
>>733722193>avoiding random encounters by making it so that every fucking battle is something you walk into knowing you're going to be battling>THIS IS GOOD BECAUSE REPELS EXISTEDScratch damage piling up because you haven't been able to heal for awhile is part of the design intent of the older games. Did you think Lillie following you through Vast Poni Canyon and giving you a fucking free full party heal every couple screens was just quality of life? That was them trying to "fix" random encounters in the same way you want them to, but without coding overworld encounters.
>>733722009ah my bad, then let me rephrase"If Game Freak and Creatures are both happy with the current situation, what do you want Nintendo to do when they're outvoted 2:1"
>>733722510My takeEverybody is happy with the situation.They have a massive IP raking massive amount of money at the lowest possible cost. Even better, Pokemon isn't a video game anymore, but figurines and cards, most people don't necessarily think about the games when talking about pokemon, especially non-gamers.I'm sure they could pressure GF to do anything, but why even bother?The whole situation is an executive wet-dream, the only cost is a bit of loss of brand perception (Adults) who will be buying for their kids anyway.They probably have a massive orgy with JAV actress on every yearly exercise in the meeting room with lots of cocaine. It's printing money, nobody wants to change a winning team.
>>733720381Anon, Game Freak is a third of TPC too.
>>733722054>They can dictate lots of thingsstaffing and schedules are not handled by nintendo, they can only offer to help but if TPC refuses then it's on them, not Nintendo.
>>733722434>avoiding random encounters by making it so that every fucking battle is something you walk into knowing you're going to be battlinghow is this an issue? just because it makes shiny hunting a little easier? the ways it improves the vast majority of the game outweigh shiny hunting being a bit easier now.If you're referring to the wonder of coming across any new pokemon, I still have that, just prior to initiating a battle now rather than as the battle loads.
>>733720142It's Game Freak out of those two. The problem is that 1 year just isn't enough to make a modern Pokemon game, so they cut corners to get it out the door. They're making a game that isn't called Pokemon and it looks way better.
>>733720142Both. Gamefreak doesn't have the talent for an almost yearly to bi yearly release schedule, so Nintendo shouldn't put pressure on them for it. Course we are talking about what is really a C list game series. So even if Gamefreak had talent or Nintendo let them have 4 years to make a game, it still wouldn't look like much.
>>733723089>They're making a game that isn't called Pokemon and it looks way better.the trailer they showed off might as well just be an ad for Unity assets
>>733723185>so Nintendo shouldn't put pressure on them for itgood news, Nintendo isn't pressuring them to do a yearly release. in fact, nintendo does really do that to any of their dev teams.
>>733723049>how is it an issue that every individual bit of gameplay is now opt inIt removes any possibility of being posed with a problem you aren't perfectly prepared for going in.
>>733720142Why do people always debate these two when it's The Pokemon Company?
>>733720142Z-A is amazing.
>>733722054Nintendo can do shit unless it has more votes, TPC is three companies and Creatures ALWAYS goes with Gamefreak which mean Nintendo ALWAYS loses 2 to 1 in votes.
>>733723360Normies don't even know TPC even exist
>>733720142lol
>>733723360>it's not these two, it's [company jointly owned by nintendo and gf]
>>733723462really if we want to blame anyone for pokemon looking like shit Creatures is the place to start. these guys have literally ONE JOB and its making 3D models of pokemon, and they fucking suck at it.
>>733722434>Scratch damage piling up because you haven't been able to heal for awhilethis in jarpigs, the games where you can>run away in 0 turns 80% of the time unless you're seriously underleveled>carry 99 fucking potions>use healing moves inside and outside of battle>restore your MP via ethers or whatever>get healing items from enemies (steal or drop)fuck right off and fucking die. half the runtime in a ps1 rpg is loading screens
>>733723216That still looks better than Pokemon Scarlet.
>>733723347Not true, you can still walk up to pokemon way too high level for you that you only realize once you start fighting. Also if you're not overly encyclopedic about pokemon you might forget a specifity of type matching a specific pokemon or be surprised by a pokemon's type being different than you thought if its new to that gen etc.
>>733723651>>carry 99 fucking potions>>use healing moves inside and outside of battle>>restore your MP via ethers or whatever>>get healing items from enemies (steal or drop)so, your argument is, "because you end up with too many unused healing items, we should make the player use even less healing items, instead of making it so they have to actually use them up"?Because holy shit nigga, you're retarded.
BDSP were better than SwSh and SV
>>733723651>talks about "jarpigs" without any irony in the midst of complaining about fucking POKEMONOpinion discarded
>>733723708eh, its about the same to me. ugly N64 textures vs "hire this man" unityslop. neither is good.
>>733723651Good games don't have most of that and make HP and MP a limited resource. You could grind for healing items in a Mega Man game and end up breaking the difficulty in half. That's obviously stupid, though. Grinding in an RPG that you could've beaten a long time ago is just as bad.
>>733723824>BDSPthey were actually insanely difficult if you stuck with them
>>733723725Yeah and what happens when you walk up to a single wild encounter you're unprepared for? You can still generally run before it KOs 6 mons, and whatever the battle did to you then ceases to matter because there aren't any mandatory turns of battle between you and the nearest Pokemon Center.
>>733723708That is the lowest bar you could have possibly set
>>733720142Nintendo gets nearly no input on how the games are made, who's hired to direct them, what engine they use, and the production value gets to be.
>>733723972True. This is a thread about Pokemon games, though.
>>733720720That's a mockup not an actual build of the game retard
>>733720142The fans. They've told Game Freak they'll accept the least amount of effort possible. Pokefans are like Sonicfans.
>>733723963what you propose isn't a bad idea for forming a risk and reward style of gameplay in pokemon, but I must admit I've not experienced this dramatically in any of the earlier gens. Yes, maybe one early game area here or there, but these games have always had a difficulty issue, scarlet/violet isn't doing anything new here just not wasting your time as much.I think there's much more dynamic ways they could both make the games harder and not rely on random encounters as a crutch. Thinking of the sharpedos that bolt at you in the Isle of Armor dlc for swsh.More pokemon that are harder to run past and maybe outpace you even with upgrades would be welcome choices if used and done cleverly.
>>733720142Those game cube games look good
>>733723853>>733723935you're defending loading screens. I fucking hate loading screensthe fact that you can't even stomach repels/holy water/whatever shows how fucking childish you arego suffer "hardcore" games like wizardry or something
>>733723575The original purpose of TPCi was to just make sure Game Freak never had the rug pulled out from under them and could maintain control of the Pokemon IP. But it has grown considerably as the merch sales of Pokemon has continually driven the business and far and away outperformed the games themselves monetarily. When we got the big internal doc leaks, they were littered with meeting notes and decision slide decks indicating that the pace of development and things like the anime are almost unilaterally controlled by Nintendo-aligned TPCi employees.
>>733720142It’s always Gamefreak. Iwata had to save their shit programming in Gen 1 and 2, and once they switched to 3D they have never been able to handle it. I seriously don’t see how that Beast of Reincarnation game is theirs.
the Pokemon company
>>733724471you've never seen what gamecube games actually looked like if you think those look good for gamecube games.
>>733723824if they included the gen 4 battle factory, bdsp would easily mog everything since bw2
>>733724558it isn't. it's like one director from game freak and a bunch of chinks they outsourced to make the whole game.
>>733720142100% GFNintendo is willing to spend and delay on big new games to ensure the highest quality product is presented, because as their own brand name is on their products, image and reputation matters.Do you honestly think the same company that made mario odyssey and BotW would have allowed the released of modern pokemon games in the state they're coming out with the absolute shitstorms that come with them?
>>733724558>Iwata had to save their shit programming in Gen 1 and 2Urban legend. Iwata was helpful to them, but the only main contribution he made was taking a compression algorithm that another Nintendo team had used for a different game and implemented it on the gen 2 games. It also did not make the games fit or reduce their size meaningfully as people say it did, but rather just helped with the timely loading of different things like maps. (People often pretend Iwata is the only reason Kanto was in gen 2, and it's just not true.) He was a real one though. RIP legend.The main thing I remember from the big doc leak was how Iwata and the rest of the old guard were fucking based, and they constantly butted heads with Nintendo over the games and anime where Nintendo wanted to push stupid shit.
>>733724760They look great compared to other pokemon games, not other game cube games.The real scale and size of pokemons is already better than any mainline game has done
>>733720832SwSh objectively looks better than SV, you're brainrotted by the epic tree meme. Outside of the Wild Area it has a consistent vision and good colour use.
>>733720142Last 3 games were some of the best of the series gameplaywise. People tend to forget that pokemon fans want to play games and look at pokemons, not at grass or balconies.
>>733720873>nintards, nintardo>pokespics>lamefreak>Various 4chan buzzwordsthis is a nice fuckin post, I kekked
>>733724420What I'm proposing is how the games were until they started actively enabling people to rush to the nearest free full heal every time their party gets so much as scratched. Yeah, it wasn't a particularly well maintained balance before that. After all, you can just outlevel the mandatory encounters enough that their chip damage won't matter. But like, if I'm not supposed to care about a mechanic because I can level until it doesn't matter, then 99% of mechanics in 99% of RPGs are in the same boat.>I think there's much more dynamic ways they could both make the games harder and not rely on random encounters as a crutch.Yeah I'd be down for that too. I just think that most people are being dumbasses by saying random encounters were purely laziness and had no objective impact and the game is purely better for lacking them.>>733724534>you're defending loading screensI'm defending mandatory encounters, which most RPG norms are designed around. You're asking for RPG norms to be kept without the thing that makes them reasonable.
>>733720142Ultimately it's Gamefreak's product and they didn't have to make such compromises on 3D graphic design just to maintain their dogshit formula and release schedule.
>>733724876>Do you honestly think the same company that made mario odyssey and BotW would have allowed the released of modern pokemon games in the state they're coming out with the absolute shitstorms that come with them?Yes. Because they did exactly that. Multiple times. Nintendo is the main entity setting the release timelines. Game Freak just has the most control over what they games have in them and the actual building process. But they have repeatedly cut large chunks or whole games because of Nintendo's schedule demands. Gen 6 is a perfect example. We got to see Southern Kalos on the map in the beta builds, and explicit data references to X2Y2 games, and then it all disappeared from the game in the builds where Nintendo started pushing them to do an E3 demo to get it out on the 3DS sooner.
>>733723462>>733721812>>733722510Children, you need to understand life isn't like the movies and every boardroom decision isn't dictated by the person with the 50.0000000000000000000000001 shareholding (infact many boardroom decisions can't be dictated by shareholders at all). First of all, it tends to be a rule of good business to be on good terms with your partners; just blindly dictating everything doesn't foster that; Second of all, context outside of shreholding matters. If google owns 33% of your company, you better believe the 66% raise their head when Google speaks. Building on the above, nintendo is the big dog here GF and creatures can't and won't tell it to just go and get fucked. It's not some whipped victim. If the games are being released like this nintendo is letting it happen.
>>733724791You got arguably the best Battle Tower out of any Pokemon game which is a fine tradeoff.
>>733725049Aside from specific failures like Terastal or whatever, Gen 9 lets you directly ignore gym leaders to fuck off wherever you want, only coming back when you're way so high level they become a joke.
>>733720720>prototype build where some building facades are actually detailed meshes, but the ones behind the player's perspective are flat planes>runs at 10 frames per second>"It must have been an issue of time or money!"
>>733720142Blame this motherfucker
>>733724534>you're defending loading screens.It must help to completely ignore what was actually said in favor of responding to an imaginary person.
>>733724987Yeah GF just can't do open world areas. SS was still unimpressive graphically, but it at least wasn't offensively ugly like SV and ZA outside of the wild areas. GF should stick to semi-linear routes instead of big empty open worlds.
>>733720142It's the fault of 3D. We need to go back to 2D.
>>733725442I honestly prefer this to gating every route in the game behind gyms or other plot stuff. Gen 6-8 are pretty awful in that regard, where you have basically zero choice in the order you do things.Gen 1 actually has more open choice in gym leader and plot-related-dungeon order than every other game in the series, besides SV.
>>733725215>nintendo is the big dog here GF and creatures can't and won't tell it to just go and get fuckedexcept we have literal receipts of exactly that. Nintendo offered game freak more budget and support staff and game freak told them to shove it up their ass.
>>733720142Everyone involved is to blame.Yes, even the customers
>>733720142Legends Arceus is basically my dream pokemon game in concept. Just wilderness and catching mons. Of course it needs better art and actual interesting areas.>inb4 have you tried Palworld then?Nah, guns don't interest me. And the game looks like Fortnite. I don't want a "you can do anything with crafting" type game. I want more of a glorified Pokemon Snap that isn't on-rails.Thanks for coming to my TeddiursaTalk
Does anyone have hope for Gen 10? Gen 9s horrible aesthetic made me loose all interest in the game.
>>733725992I liked gen 9 so i will like gen 10 too :)
>>733720142Both of these faggots fault, so much for that Quality Seal
>>733725639I don't agree entirely, I just think they massively hyper overextended.Legends Arceus style smaller open zones with more structure and density would be the ideal middle ground. Considering the island nature of Gen 10 and the fact Z-A is focused on being both open and dense, I think they get that themselves too, they just need to find the right balance of that and visuals.
>>733720142Scarlet and Violet is one of the absolute worse games on the Switch/Switch 2, I have zero faith Game Freak is going to get better
>>733725932Arceus was a great idea, but the combat being ass and catching being so easy you don't even need to weaken pokemon at all were both issues that fucked up the "Pokemon" side of the gameplay. Like even keeping your starter within 30 levels of your team gets hard because you can just catch level 50 pokemon rather than having to tediously grind through the awful LA battle system.
>>733726102ZA gameplay and visuals definitely seem like a step in the right direction although still not great. However the scope of that game was very narrow in comparison so who knows.
>>733720142Scarlet/Violet were painful from a gameplay standpointGive us the Nemesis system from Shadow of War, but for Pokemon TrainersHaving a living world of 20-40 semirandom trainers building themselves up alongside you would spruce things up so much
>>733726136A few years before Arceus, I thought it'd be interesting if they decided to break free from the JRPG formula and develop a Pokemon game that returned to the series' origin of exploring the countryside and catching frogs and bugs. In other words, a 3D Pokemon game where you actually catch Pokemon, sort of a successor to Pokemon Snap. You'd need to do things like prepare tools and bait, camp out at specific spots at specific times of day (using a real time system similar to Animal Crossing), talk to NPCs or other players to learn how to track and catch Pokemon, etc. Of course, this would be limited to the original 151 Pokemon because of its more complex premise, perhaps excluding legendaries since they don't really lend themselves to this concept.I realized that this was slightly unrealistic, but I'd been completely checked out of Pokemon since X & Y and was just idly wondering what would bring me back.Then ZA came out and it was just an a bunch of Pokemon models with identical behavior walking around empty, featureless fields.
>>733720720>So who controls that? that's your culprit, not the devs.Gamefreak does for the most part. They're completely independent from Nintendo and own 1/3rd of TPC. The only reason Pokemon only comes out on Nintendo systems and phones is because Nintendo also owns 1/3rd of TPC and Im pretty sure the publishing rights.
>>733720662Gen 1 is perfection, why do you people get angry when anyone uses it to show how shit your favorite gen is?
>>733725771Which means it's still Nintendo's fault for not forcing them to take the money and help.
The current state of Pokemon is the result of the consumerbase and their haters. The entire Pokemon company knows for a damn fact that there is an insignificant number of people who are willing to stick to their guns in protesting anything in a way that matters. If one person "protests" their games they always can get their moneys worth from the people scalping their shit. Even dexit didn't mean jack shit to them cause they knew like a child throwing a tantrum, they'd get over said thing eventually and they'd continue cruising like normal AND anything sort of a deliberate terrorist crime against their actions would result in wagon circling instead.
I used to think Let's go was poor visually compared to other Switch titles, now it's the best pkm game that looks good wtf happened man
>>733722963tpc is owned by tendo
>>733727795> Even dexit didn't mean jack shit to them cause they knew like a child throwing a tantrum, they'd get over said thing eventually and they'd continue cruising like normal AND anything sort of a deliberate terrorist crime against their actions would result in wagon circling instead.Dexit was the event that made them realize they could get away with anything. The online uproar against it was huge but sales numbers were enormous anyways so they knew they could get away with anything after that.
>>733727882Not exactly, but it WAS set up once they realised what a juggernaut the series was and they realised they couldn't manage it from in-house and they needed a separate corporate framework for it.TPC is not really its own entity, it's literally just the conglomeration of Nintendo, Game Freak, and Creatures (who, if you look into their history, are inextricably tied to Nintendo anyway).The true answer has been nailed by another anon in this very thread: Nintendo COULD easily push for improvements, but there is zero financial incentive for any more money to be spent on it than is necessary because it's proven to be a guaranteed seller. Look at these GBA ROMs, 30 year old emulated games being re released and they are already top sellers. You literally cannot defeat the multigenerational tendie paypiggies. It is futile.So Nintendo just let it sit there as a little side hustle for them, printing money for their in-house projects like Mario and Zelda.
>>733728656>>733727795Dexit was inevitable. I'm sorry but you're an actual fucking idiot if you haven't accepted it yet. It's objectively bad project design to have kept going like that.The last non-dexit game had 800 Pokemon, 400 of which are not catchable in the game but still have to be designed to correctly interact with every system in the game for the at best 5% of the audience that would want to. This isn't feasible design for any game, no matter the budget or dev team, the longer the series goes on.Dexit itself was not an issue or something they need to have "gotten away with". You could make an argument that there should have been some visible positive trend after it that showed we gained from the removal of non-nat dex mons per game, and that the benefits we have had (more regular and detail-focused model updates like scale/fur textures (pic related)) isn't enough and that's completely reasonable as a complaint, but if you honestly think there was ever a world where dexit wouldn't eventually happen you are deluded.
They released SV to the public its both of their faults
>>733720381Anon, Nintendo, Gamefreak and Creatures each own 1/3 of TPC. TPC answers to them, not the other way around.
>>733729248It's also probably not a great idea to force your "partners" to do things they don't want, especially when, as you said, there's no real financial incentive. So long as the pastures are still green, it's best not to rock the boat. The only way Nintendo will force Gamefreak to do anything is if things start actually going south. Gamefreak's incompetence isn't in danger of harming the IP's financials yet, so things are still stable.
>>733720720>gamefreak can't optimize for shit>the entire map is one model
>>733725145>I'm defending mandatory encounterschrono trigger had thoserandom encounters are cancer. waste of time. devs realized this as far back as dragon quest 1
>>733720720>buy assets>switch can't handle them>downgrade assets>put pokemon on it>20M+ sales with 100$ pricetag
>>733726041>dodges enemy's attack>hides inside the building>ambushes facechecking enemy>enemy strikes back immediately because no flinch mechanics to prevent stunlockwhat's the problem here :^)
The way it works is that Nintendo owns some of the trademarks and publishing rights, Gamefreak have exclusive right to decide what games get developed and who gets to be involved in that process, and Creatures helped with Pokemon's creation but their main bread and butter when it comes to the IP is the TCG. The Pokemon Company was created by these companies to manage the brand, especially in regards to merchandise and licensing deals. The Pokemon Company actually doesn't really get much say in regards to what the other companies do, meaning they have almost no real involvement in game development. What they ARE responsible for are stuff like toys, management of Pokemon Centers, management of localization of certain products (such as the TV show, films and TCG), and management of licenses such as in regards to shit like the Detective Pikachu movie from some years back. I'm pretty sure they're also mostly responsible for the localization of the games.The important thing to keep in mind is that there is a strict hierarchy here. TPC has ABSOLUTELY NO FINAL SAY in what the other companies do. Maybe they can make suggestions, but Nintendo, Gamefreak and Creatures are the bosses. Likewise, the current equilibrium means that Nintendo doesn't have much incentive to push their weight around. This is why Gamefreak was able to authorize the development and release of Pokemon Go on mobile platforms. Nintendo just okayed it and collect some of the profits from it, but are otherwise completely uninvolved.
>>733723568I liked the caves in arceus
>>733725992No, Gen 9 was terrible and I fully expect Gen 10 to be bad too
i think it looks good. reminds me of how older video games looked with repeating textures and what not.
>>733730180I fully accept that there is no world where dexit didn't need to happen eventually. I'm not mad about the very idea of dexit. I'm mad about everything fucking else. The timing, the justification, the execution, they're all complete bullshit.They didn't do enough visual updates on the Switch that Pokemon ported directly from the 3DS games looked out of place next to them. I remember a modder posted a video of an Omastar with working model and animations like two days after Gen 8 came out! I appreciate the work they're doing on textures and animations, but it's just nowhere near enough. To try and pull this bullshit not five years after they consigned every 3DS Pokemon game to spotty performance for "muh future proof models" was a slap in the face.>but what about the gameplay???What about it? Making new Pokemon that fit into the old systems is all that's required. Nobody is holding game freak at gunpoint forcing them to try and make legendaries balanced or whatever, they just get banned in competitive regardless.
>>733731282>meaning they have almost no real involvement in game developmentthen why were games scheduled to release alongside the anime? it's almost like gamefreak doesn't call the shots and release games whenever it feels like
>>733731105>chrono trigger had thoseAnd everyone I've seen praise the visible encounters also went on to say they still felt the unavoidable ones were a waste of time. If you're fine with unavoidable encounters I'm fine with you, I just find that a lot of people are only against random encounters because they feel they should be able to avoid all combat.
>>733720626How can gen 1 be lazier than the previous gens...?
>>733730180truke
>>733720142Bit of camp A, bit of camp B.
>>733731464And before I forget I'm also fucking pissed that the second they said "okay maybe we need to cut a few" they went on to cut every fucking Pokemon that you couldn't natively catch in that game! And make that the standard! And a generation later, what did we get? Transferred Pokemon forget their actual moves and learn their species' last four level up moves! There is now officially no reason for transfers to exist other than sentimental value!
>>733720381Game Freak owns 1/3 of The Pokemon Company, Retard-kun.
>>733731567It's a strategic decision. The current equilibrium requires for Gamefreak to keep making games. If things ever reach a point where they're unable to pull their weight, then that's when problems will start to arise. The show is a vital cog in the machine, and it needs to maintain some degree of synchronicity with the games. Unlike game development, the show must maintain a strict schedule; it cannot wait for the games because it has an obligation towards TV Tokyo. Gamefreak could probably just choose to do their own thing, but that's when problems will start to arise. Despite being one of the three heads of the IP, they don't have a whole lot of freedom because everything sort of hinges on keeping the wheel steadily turning.
>>733731875Balance changes existed before gen 8, pokemon received stat changes in gens 6 and 7, and every generation made it possible to learn new moves to them and made it impossible to learn moves that they could previously.
>>733731875>Transferred Pokemon forget their actual moves and learn their species' last four level up moves! There is now officially no reason for transfers to exist other than sentimental value!This is pretty inarguably better game design though. Even if you ignore that moves also got dexited making this a necessity, doing this also means that people don't need to own multiple games to actually play on a level playing field in online multiplayer. If Extremespeed Linoone was legal only via a limited time event in RSE, or something, it either promotes hacking or doing absurd shit to try and get legitimate optimal Pokemon.Yes that still exists now (Enamorus) but in a vastly more limited capacity. And you can say you don't care about how easy it is to play competitively, but the simple fact is that the competitive audience for Pokemon has actively grown since the devs have gradually catered to making a competitive-viable mon easier.As someone who personally cares more about transfer than competitive, I still get why that decision was made. They also made it so you don't just get the last four moves, you can specifically set which four moves in Home before you save thr transfer.
>>733724791I'm biased because it feels like such a hack job and I really like gen 4 despite it's many flaws. The previous remakes weren't perfect but they all felt like obvious passion projects made by people who cared. The gen 4 remakes just have this obvious vibe of "Guess we have to do this?"Also I just hate the artstyle. Gen 4 can be pretty atmospheric at times, by pokemon standards, and this awful chibi artstyle just ruins that vibe. It's like they were going for the same energy as Lets go Pikachu/Eevee without any of the stylish justification those games had. Gen 2 and Gen 3 remakes didn't go out of their way to ruin the vibe those games had.
>>733720720Man, I wonder how good a Pokemon game could look if there was a native port on PC released alongside the downgraded Switch versions
>>733720142Arceus did NOT look good, it gets mogged in graphics quality by PS2 games
>>733720142It has always been and it will always be GameFreak, Nintendo has offered support to improve their games during development and they have constantly declined it. Don't even get me started on BDSP because the only time GameFreak decided to outsource one of their games to another company, it was to ILCA, the developers of fucking Pokemon Home, and the game was so atrociously cheap that not only they recycled the code from the original DS games, but it was found that both BD and SP were the exact same game and the version was determined by a single line of easily editable code.If it wasn't for them, I'm damn sure we would have gotten RBY and GSC in the NSO years ago with potential compatibility with Pokemon Stadium.
>>733720142Legitimately the best entry in the Pokémon franchise when you include the DLC.
>>733720142The new Switch 2 exclusive pokemon game will make full use of its hardware and will look great. You'll see.
>>733732268>the simple fact is that the competitive audience for Pokemon has actively grown since the devs have gradually catered to making a competitive-viable mon easier.Let me just interject into this conversation to say that people are fucking idiots when it comes to this particular topic. "Competitive-viable mon" in most cases just translates to "mathematically perfectly RNG rolled specimen that would have been impossible to obtain as the games were originally designed in Red/Blue". Battle simulators and cheating devices allowing for the sort of environment where people expected and demanded absolute unattainable perfection to even bother with trying out PvP battling is one of the worst things to happen to Pokemon's gameplay systems, and it wasn't even perpetrated by Game Freak/Nintendo themselves. Pokemon breeding/eugenics being a rabbit hole that could take over your entire IRL life for minimal perceptible gains back when it was introduced in gen 2 was by design, dumbasses! You could just run what you have in your team! Jesus. And then the devs caved to these autists by making the once-in-a-million-years Pokemon a regular thing for everyone to have, rather than cracking down on cheating.
>>733733931Pokemon PVP is fucked though since they refuse to either 1: Change the core gameplay in a way to allow more challenge that is easier for people and children to understand. 2: Include actual hard single player content like the Battle Frontier. PVP is the easiest way to keep hardcore players interested. Especially with smogon essentially just doing the balancing for them.
>>733730180Now you have cut pokemon, cut moves, cut settings, cut graphics, cut performance. All this needed to happen, very hard being small indie dev please understand aaa price tag.Funny to think that many games render thousands of objects at a time yet on Pokemon you have like maybe 15 tops on screen at one time but no can't have those 1000 models being reused because 3d models are best for that just remake them every gen.
>>733730180>Dexit was inevitable. The mistake was not doing it decades ago. Even as early as Hoenn Pokemon were obvious superfluous with new pokemon clearly serving as replacements. By gen 4 we had like 4 different mostly identical early normal bird pokemon.Gen 5 was basically the last chance to actually just make a clear statement(Especially since it had no remake generation) and they chickened out.
>>733720142Lets see (you) do better faggot. Where's your game?
>>733730180I've always thought every gen should have only regional pokedex. I liked it in Gen5 but it didn't help they picked really shitty mons for that game. At least 50% were uggos or ripping off gen1. But Idk do people REALLY want to catch pikachu for the 100th time? Having only unique mons is refreshing.But I do agree with >>733731464 It's really about the timing. Since they already decided to be lazy fucks and reuse the same models and engine every gen, they had no excuse. There was no effort put to improve the animations or anything. There was no tradeoff. Fans just got cucked.
>>733720142the fans are to blame. Not only do they continue to buy slop, they defend said slop makers to the point where they'll imply that it's unreasonable to make a game like pokemon in 3D to begin with
>>733732548they could have made the switch 2 version as originally intended, but then people would bitch that they got 2 different games (like, say, sonic unleashed on ps2/wii vs ps3/xbox 360)
>>733735194>Gen 5Every Pokemon game has had plenty of mid Pokemon and at least Gen 5 wasn't anywhere near as poorly ballanced as sinnoh,
Is it really true that the entire Legends ZA map is just one model?
>>733735628Yes but it isn't loaded in all at once that was a misunderstanding iirc
Fundamentally, Pokemon is just not a video game that can transition well to 3D. It just can't, which is why it's been in decline. Funny that as a kid all I ever wanted was a 3D pokemon game, I had no idea what it would turn out to actually be like.
which is the most forgettable gen, gen 7 or gen 8?
>>733735772Do they use LODs?
>>733735918I feel like Sun and Moon was generally well liked. So, gen 8.
>>733735918I think 9 is forsure
>>733735918Out of those? Gotta be 8. Even Marnie who coomers obsess over does fuck all in the game. The game in general felt like a worse retread of 7 down the villains
>>733735918>incineroar, kukui, solgaleo, kommo-o>rillaboom, cinderace, urshifu, toxtricityTough choice
>>733720261I'm so fucking SICK of hearing "Oh they wanted to but the big bad didn't give them enough time' THEY HAVE HAD 30 YEARS, YOU SHIT POT PIE
>>733738702Incineroar is only liked because of Smash.
>>733720142Gamefreak is the villain. They could have future proofed. They could have expanded. They could have accepted help. They did none of those. Nintendo and TPC need to put pressure on them, but they don't seem to care or maybe GF's shares in Pokemon make them the untouchable retard of the group.
Who produces the TGC?
>>733720142Unironically, the consumer.You could blame the corrupt politician for abusing their powers. However, the only reason why that politician is abusing their power is because the average voter keeps voting them into office. Since voters are retarded and keep ignoring their flaws, politicians don’t have to improve and can keep abusing their powers.Its the same kind of principle with capitalism. If consumers weren’t retarded, GameFreak would be forced to actually make Pokemon games with actual effort.
>>733735918Gen 7 it was a standard game, Gen 8 had dexit, leaks to show how bad the designs were and then sales came in.
>>733738953isn't it WoC?
>>733724236No, the entire source code leaked and that retard built every single commit in the history.
>>733738953creatures inc
>>733739417That was decades ago.
>>733735914That's not true, we knew it would make for good 3D back on the N64. The issue is so fucking obviously that they do not want to reinvest their profits into these games.
>>733735194National dex would be fun if they actually included a substantial post game, where you travel to essentially a new region.
>>733720750Pokemon fans hate that pokemon is meant to be a turn based jrpg
>>733730180No, retard. Dexit was NOT inevitable. Pokemon games since their inception don't include every monster in that game. However, there's no reality where it would be fundamentally impossible to transfer monsters from any other game into a game. That's a fucking fact, retard.
>>733730180>gobble gobble nom nom yummy cocks
>>733720261Will always miss the pss from gen 6
>>733724903You're underselling that he was a Nintendo president, and he was gifted with 1337 programming skills.
>>733739741I mean, I'm fine with it being turn based rpg but they should honestly do a reboot at this point. Final fantasy is not SMT and SMT is not Dragon Quest.
>>733724558I like to think that making Pokemon games is shit duty, and devs over there are sentenced to it if they are late for work.
>>733739931Was that the Stadium minigames that improved IV stats? that was good shit, cannot believe Gamefreak are so incompetent they cut features that are good each game. Only the worst for their fans!
>>733740058I really don't get that, frankly. Rom hacks show most people fucking love making games.
>>733740641they also show that most people are shit at designing games
>>733740317Nah, it was the online multiplayer system they cut in gen 7. Gen 6 had problems but online multiplayer was not one of them
>>733740912Most Pokemon games are pretty shit from a design perspective as well. Like, it took them 3 tries to get pseudo legendaries right and even then they still fucked it up again and again afterwards.
>>733720142Game Freak 110%. Nintendo even told them to outsource gruntwork to Bandai or Square to assist with development and GF said no. Nintendo is a lot of things, many bad, but their first party games are at least technically sound. Game Freak's games a are a buggy mess that never make it out of the open beta stage.
>>733720142So those companies only do it because they can get away with it. Blame the Pokemon consumer.
>>733721812Creatures is just a shell company controlled by Nintendo. Also in the complex, retarded world of Japanese company politics Game Freak effectively is too, which is why them talking back to Nintendo is a huge slap in the face and an odd one considering they moved their HQ to Nintendo's office building when asked.
>>733720142There's nothing wrong with those games, tranny faggot!
...he said, crying.
>>733741609don't you think it was deliberate rather than plain incompetence? how do you explain the much better-looking prototype at >>733720720 being downgraded into the final product we got?
>>733741025Dragonite and Ttar are cool what are you going on about
>>733720142You are incel
>>733720261this, the modern games have literally no redeemable factors
>>733743031When I say "Design perspective" I mean "What is their role in the game and how they are used". Not their actual design.Ttar only appears in Mt Silver at the very, VERY end of the game while Dragonite somehow manages to be inferior to a random Starmie despite required ten times as much effort to get.
>>733744020that's not really fair since damn near everything is inferior to starmie
>>733720142Before?Game FreakNow?The fansThey deserve bad games
>>733744159Well, yes, which is what I mean when I say most gens are poorly designed. There are some Pokemon that are well designed and clearly serve a obvious purpose. Some people that seem to serve a purpose yet either don't do it or are utterly outclassed. And then you have whatever they were doing with Psychic and Poison type in gen 1. Pseudo legendaries tend to stick out because they have a lot going for them so it's way more noticeable when they fall flat on their face. Meanwhile something like Starmie sticks out since it's clearly not meant to be the strongest thing imaginable. Like, even something like Jynx (Which is almost as good as Starmie) or a Nidoking (Which has it's downsides but is still a early game monster and clearly meant to be as such) at least have some kind of resource or time investment.
>>733720142Of course it's on Game Freak you dumbass. Nintendo's own AAA games don't look like that shit. Just Game Freak's, because they're complacent and have a "that'll do" attitude, with an aversion to changing any of their processes even as games and tech change. They were ranked lowly by devs ranking Japanese devs as places to work in for a reason (Nintendo were rated near the top).
>>733741609They allegedly offered to send over monolithsoft to help out and gf said no to that too
