How do you improve upon this combat system?The world is easily improved by removing open world and going to DS1/2 style.The story is never going to be good.The music and sound design has never not been good.Graphics do not matter.
>>733726281Make the lock on better. Get rid of the input buffering. Buttons work on press, rather than release. Reintroduce rally mechanics by default. Increase player poise.
>>733726547That's a patch. I'm talking sequel wise.
>>733726281Add command inputs for weapons. Not like Nioh, that shit is obnoxious, but more akin to how classic Ashes of War skills worked in King's Field. Let you hot key spells when you cast so you don't have to cycle through them More status ailments and status ailment builds. Things that let you abuse ailments. Would also be cool if things like Frenzy and Instant Death worked on bosses if you had the right set up, at least lesser bosses like instant killing an Erdtree Spirit. That's pretty much it, I like Elden Ring's combat enough already. It would be a mistake to make the player too strong too, these game thrive on being enemy focused.
>>733726817The combat is good already. There really aren't many other games competing for first place in the niche. Nioh is basically it, Monster Hunter is good, but it has its own corner. The combat just needs tuning for the sake of making the player stronger and more able to trade with bosses on non-specialized builds over most builds having to play very defensively against overpowered boss fights. I know you can post some tank build that regens half its HP bar per hit, but lets be real here. It was fine that you were a wimpy bitch in 2012, but in 2026 the bosses are all roided up and on lethal amounts of cocaine, so its time for the players to get a boost to their capacity for aggression. Bloodborne was on the right track. Malenia's rune changes Elden Ring a ton, but it is at the very ass end of the game against a boss that you'd really have liked to have it for. So its just NG+ fodder when the damage scaling starts to outpace your regen anyway.
>>733726945>Let you hot key spells when you cast so you don't have to cycle through themCasting really does suck in these games. IMO, a solution would just be slotting 2-4 spells per casting tool, and then you could swap catalyst and get a new set of spells to avoid having that issue of needing to cycle through way too many options during a fight. There'd be some annoying inventory management, but at least there'd be less at any one time.
>>733727424Lords of the Fallen fixed this.Multiple spells all assigned to different face buttons.
>>733727501Does that preclude you from using items or jumping or the like? Do you take a stance with your casting tool that changes your control scheme while in it? Never played the game.
>>733726281You don't. It's just a real-time turn-based type shit combat, you cannot just improve it. DS3 was already stretching it, ER is just impossible to beat without resorting to cheating.
>>733727693NoLords of the Fallen isn't very good but they did make some solid QoL adjustments So did Deck13 with the surge 2 From wont take any tips from them though, so unless they improve their own games it won't matter in the future
>>733726281Change the default dodge into a backstep or a hop because roll spam looks incredibly stupid. That’s it.
>>733726281I'm perfectly content with Elden Ring's combat mechanics. The only things I'd like to see improved are how magic is cast and how viable defensive options are telegraphed to the player. The spells themselves in Elden Ring are the best that magic has ever been, the issue is that spell cycling is extremely clunky and there's no option to, say, bind specific spells to R2 or L2. Staves and seals to not need a fucking staff bonk or punch.LotF2's casting system was okay, if a little limited in terms of the number of spells you could equip.
>>733726281Please please PLEASE rip off Code Vein's skill maping system. They almost did in Elden Ring with the Y select but failed by making it only work for use items and not spells.Spell scrolling feels awful with the ever increasing complexity of spells. It made sense in Demon's where the idea was you'd have a small number equipped and not really need to ever "combo" them, just use them as supplementary attacks during gaps.Now enough spells exist for pure mage builds where you hardly depend on melee and you can get enough slots for like 12 spells yet they still expect you to basically memorize D-pad taps.
>>733726281Add a combo system like DMC, stance switching like nioh, trick weapon system from bloodborne, true power stancing like in DS2. Literally just add more depth in any capacity because the souls combat system is shallow as fuck and can be summarized to "press dodge and attack to win."
>>733728743>carton of milk falls over
>>733726281>How do you improve upon this combat system?- Make jumping attacks much slower by having them hang in the air on windup- Make the first dodge a BB quickstep, make the second dodge within a short period a fat roll with long recovery, increase stam cost- Make Deflect a standard part of the kit by having a dedicated block button even on dual wield/2H- Do NOT make Deflect the objective best way to deal with everything- Introduce an attack "Weight" system which is kind of already there but formalise it- Make Deflect good against weak attacks but worse against heavier attacks by giving it a recovery animation on heavier hitsDesign enemy movesets around the player where enemies use a spread of jumpable low attacks, deflectable light hits and dodgeable heavy hits that does not require any sort of simon says indicators but instead just organically favours certain defensive options over others because:>If you jump an attack then you get to do the big (Now slow) jumping attack>If you deflect a light attack you recover faster with less stamina spent so you can attack>If you i-frame dodge a big swing you'll recover faster than if you deflected a heavy hit with big blowback recovery>If you have to spam dodge twice in a row you're punished with a slow roll>If you MOVE OUT OF THE WAY of an attack then you don't have any recovery or any stamina costInstead of giving enemies endless anime attack sequences with branching flowcharts that expect the player to roll 12 times in a row, give them slower and simpler movesets while making the player character weaker and more limited in turn. Do not give any meta rewards for dodging or deflecting, because that would only devalue the approach of not being in the way of the attack in the first place.Make player movesets which fit a slower and more careful game. Use mechanics like sweetspots which reward you for attacking from a specific range, use locational damage mechanics that reward manual aiming
>>733729137>no rebuttalok retard, how would YOU improve the combat?
>>733729472>Design enemy movesets around the player where enemies use a spread of jumpable low attacks, deflectable light hits and dodgeable heavy hits that does not require any sort of simon says indicators but instead just organically favours certain defensive options over others becauseThis is essentially Elden Ring, but the average player is a fucking mongoloid who refuses to do anything other than spam roll even when it has the worst expected value; and when they spam roll into attacks that are explicitly designed to punish them for spamming roll, they bitch about it on 4chan, Reddit, and Twitter. Spacing, strafing, jumping, blocking, parrying, and even low profiling are all viable defensive options, and have different expected values based on context. The way that HP / damage works in FromSoft games means that you are allotted enough mistakes per fight that experimenting with different defensive options is well worth the effort, especially as it isn't necessary to fully "solve" every single fight to beat it.Elden Ring Reforged more or less convinced me that Elden Ring's combat system was actually in a perfectly acceptable state, and only needs minor refinements. That mod strays too far into "Simon Says" territory, as you put it.
>>733726281Make it so attacks consistenly cause their target to animate with the hit. That's it. Dropping the constant super armor would instantly improve the combat.
>>733730008This is not how ER actually plays in normal gameplay, because enemy animations do not properly indicate where and when they're going to hit and what your options to deal with them are. This is partially due to them making most of these enemy animations before they even finalised the player mechanics (Jump was an i-frame until just before launch), and partially due to Fromsoft simply not giving a fuck about communicating to the player because they were trying to make a game for people who summon mimics and 2 friends. What you can technically do via esoteric nonsense after 500hrs of speedrunning trial and error is not relevant to actual gameplay and if you want to make players approach the game like this for real, instead of just for content creation, then you need to slow down both the enemies and the players and put a lot more emphasis on properly communicating what is happening via the enemy animationsFiguring out whether an attack is jumpable or spacable or not should not be a matter of trial and error
>>733730681almost every video game ever is based on trial and error you dumb fuck.
>>733730968Dark Souls 1 is not Dragon's Lair and nobody should be trying to create Draon's Lair, retard
>>733730681>Figuring out whether an attack is jumpable or spacable or not should not be a matter of trial and errorWhy not?As >>733730968 said, pretty much every video game is about trial and error; or to use a more charitable term, experimentation. Elden Ring is full of attack animations that telegraph what you should experiment with, and the risk:reward is typically forgiving because of how HP and healing function in FromSoft games. Very few attacks kill you in 1 or 2 hits, especially if you have reasonable HP or defenses, and you can heal any damage that doesn't kill you X times per fight. The risk:reward for experimenting with different options is relatively generous, especially considering finding that one option that makes a given enemy easy to fight can trivialize future fights with them.If you see some sort of low, sweeping attack, you should try jumping.If you see some sort of AoE stomp or shock wave, you should try jumping.If you see a thrusting or vertical attack, you should try strafing and be prepared to roll if it can't be strafed.If you see a sweeping, horizontal attack, you should spacing it and be prepared to roll if it can't be spaced.If you see a diagonal attack, you should try strafing in the direction that it starts from and jump if it starts low or duck if it starts high.There are many enemies / bosses that I simply have no trouble with whatsoever because I know how to dodge one or two of their attacks optimally. I know how to strafe Godskin Noble, how to exploit all of Godskin Apostle's phase 2 attacks, how to jump Margit / Morgott's tail swipe, and to strafe his slow overhead attack for a massive punish, etc.I am not some sort of speedrunner or no-hit challenge runner, I'm just a person who understands the concept of identifying the square peg and trying to put it in the square hole, and I don't think that FromSoft needs to pander to people who either can't or don't want to.
>>733731642
>>733731782>cherry-picks one of the few bad attacks in the entire game, which I specifically didn't mentionHere, I'll save you the effort for your next cherry-pick, faggot: Rellana's twin moons is also a dog shit attack that breaks the rules of the game.
>>733731782git gud nigger
>>733731838Twin moons is the only well animated jumpable attack in the DLC and I jumped it on first sight
>>733731920>I jumped it on first sightThe issue is that it's telegraphed similarly to Rennala's moon, which is an attack you either space or roll into. If you remember that attack at all, which you're likely to since it's her signature attack, it fucks you over. Congratulations if you managed to jump it first try.Dancing Lion's spinning breath attack is a much more obvious "jump this, retard" attack, as is golden hippo's body slam.
>>733726817Just copy Bloodborne and Sekiro, but only the dodging and clashing. They want it to be anime shit until the last minute where they decided it still needs to be rollslop. Just let it be anime
>>733732072>it fucks you overexcept the drop of the moon from the air takes long enough that you can see it's falling into the ground instead of your face and react to it. Dancing Lion's spinning breath hits you in the air if you're too close to his face on the rotation which is some nonsense because its model goes inside you and covers the screen. You won't admit that half the challenge of learning lion is learning where to stand and move the camera so that you can fucking see
to be for really with you niggazrhythm game combat is shit compared to actual rhythm games. From should lean into what makes an RPG an RPG. See Daggerfall, Baldur's Gate, Devil Spire Falls.
>>733732213I will admit that the camera fucking sucks against Lion. I don't know why they didn't just zoom it out, he's a great fight when you can actually fucking see. Ironically he's really weak to you just walking slightly outside of his range, sort of like Sanctuary Guardian from DS1. He even pauses when he's flying at you so you can bonk him on the nose.
>>733726281>make Great Runes give you permanent character changes like classes in NightreignThere, fixed. Combat aside, ideally I would like Dark Souls and Elden Ring games to keep being made simultaneously. Sometimes I want to go on that big long adventure again, but most of the time I just want to load up a DaS game and blast through it in 3 hours. Although I know if they were to keep working on both of these IP's that would leave little room to see another game like Sekiro that breaks the mold so overall I don't think it's worth it
>>733726281Remove iframes and stance breaking
>>733732284It's not a rhythm game nor is it really an RPG, and the games you listed are all boring dogshit
>>733733056>boring dogshitprove you've played them.
Mandatory fat rolling. Been doing my RL1 run with heavy equip load and I’ve been having fun with shields and all the other defense options!
>>733735292you knows it's an underage poster when they say rl instead of sl
>>733726281nioh 3 isn't perfect but it is way closer to my ideal combat system than elden ring was. in fromsoft game i always feel disincentivized from engaging with a lot of the game's systems (i honestly have not meaningfully used magic in a single one of their games)the way nioh games include replenishing ninjutsu, magic and summons allow you to utilize the full range of mechanics. once all the other systems start clicking (stances, ninja vs samurai mode, numerous types of parties, character action style command abilities) it creates a game where you're almost constantly making interesting choices. as opposed to fromsoft games where the incentive is often to find a comfort zone that works and essentially "play scared"
>>733735758>RUNE levelNot>SOUL level
>>733726281 >The world is easily improved by removing open world and going to DS1/2 style.Kill yourself
>>733727693>Does that preclude you from using items or jumping or the like? Yea>Do you take a stance with your casting tool that changes your control scheme while in it? YesNot sure why that retard is lyingLords of the Fallen casting is utter dogshit but retards love it because they are too dumb for spell que and they weren't going to jump-cast, dodge-cast, run-cast or chain items in the first place
>>733730681>This is not how ER actually plays in normal gameplay, because enemy animations do not properly indicate where and when they're going to hitWorks on my machine>Figuring out whether an attack is jumpable or spacable or not should not be a matter of trial and errorIt's consistent hitbox interactions, there's nothing trial and error about it
>>733726281>combat system>have to artificially limit yourself to not trivialize everything>99% of magic spells are useless and there for reviews/back of box stats like an ubisoft list of towers or camps or collectibles>99% of weapons will never be used and there to pad out shit stats again>entire item system is useless dogshit with pots and throwable shit no one uses ever and you are punished for trying and just there to pad out the shit to list as features>combat consists of rolling like a retard and smacking once and then rolling or running away until next sequence after boss does 85 back flips and unblockable attacksreally entertaining rolling simulator combat. theres a reason every retard playing has a platinum in every game of this franchise. they are dogshit easy and retarded combat where everyone pretends they know how to play but just overlevel and cheese every single boss.
>>733735876Fuck off with your canceling comboslop
>>733726281Uh…double jump and aerial dash.
>>733726281>How do you improve upon this combat system?Sekiro and BB both offered ways to do this.
>>733726547I swear the lock on is such a pain in the ass. It gets even more noticeable in Nightreign, when it decides to target something way off in the distance or behind a wall, rather than the fucker right in front of you
>>733726945Cycling through spells was by far the biggest pain in the ass during my INT run. I'm glad you could hold the button to quick switch to your first spell, but you don't have any other shortcut options.
>>733730681This, ignore that other faggot
>>733736926No they didn'tSekiro made an L1/R1 game with Simon Says and Bloodborne made weapon skills that are shit and a bad parry systemThese games combat isn't even better than the original Dark Souls
>>733736781>It's consistent hitbox interactionsImagine I posted a webm of me aimpunching you
>>733726281Let players bind multiple 'ashes of war' to heavy attack + face buttons, with two weapons equipped that's 6 skills usable at all times which removes the need for autistic hardswapping.
>>733736926>Sekiro
>>733731782
>>733728273Git gud>>733729472Git gud>>733737142Git gud>>733737293Git gud
>>733737293Ashes of war need to be balanced sensibly as moveset options instead of being supermoves tied to a limited resource before you do that
>>733737749Like in Bloodborne where they are useless?>Uhhhh no they are not useless actuallyYes they are
>>733737293No
>>733737253>>733737424Tards, I'm not saying literally copy Sekiro or BB, but they have aspects to its combat that would make DS/ER combat more interesting.
>>733726281>How do you improve upon this combat system?nightreign
>>733731782Gottem
>>733737749I don't quite know what you mean by that, most of them already flow quite nicely into your attack chains
>>733737827I should copy this shitposting retard and tell you to 'gitgud' because you need a supermove crutch to kill things for you
>>733737903>but they have aspects to its combatNo, the combat in these two games is fucking shit and you only love it because it's braindead simon says where the boss says jump, dodge or block and you do. Elden Ring is heavily based on the arcade roots of Souls games, the most time in combat is spend trying to stay out of enemy hitboxes, you can't block cancel, and you spend stamina to block. If you don't like it fuck off
>>733738130>2026>retards still filtered by spell que
>>733737745>>733737901What's wrong with having access to more moves? You can already quickswap to any move in the game if you're fast enough, not having to do that would be great. The game would turn into something more akin to a fighting game instead of players spamming the same move over and over.
>>733738110Ashes are designed to be retarded with the excuse that they cost manaIn DS3 they were almost on point, they could have done with being slightly better or give players a way to restore small amounts of focus by doing regular melee, but they were mostly well balanced against the rest of the weapon moveset. ER's are not.
>>733726281I think the big issue with souls is the interesting part of the combat isn't the combat itself. The interesting part is dealing with the environment while fighting something and that was lost in ER.
>>733738364I can get down with that, although you run the risk of making the moves feel useless all together and be outperformed by R1 spam. The only real usecase for them would be to mix people up in PvP.
>>733726281>The world is easily improved by removing open world and going to DS1/2 style.well since you're saying other shit is never going to change, then you have to accept elder bing 2 will be open world. anyway, i don't know how to improve the combat. let spells be assigned to hot keys or something. ever since demons souls whenever i play as a wizard guy i always only use up to 2 spells at a time because cycling through more than that sucks ass. >>733726945>how classic Ashes of War skills worked in King's Field.ahem!! it's called SWORD MAGIC pleb. but i know what you mean and i like that idea, don't get me wrong.
>>733738345>What's wrong with having access to more moves?The game is designed for the player to always access face buttons and sticks as movement optionsCertain attacks and spells are designed to be used or could need to be used while running, jumping or aiming your stick>spamming the same move over and over.Skill issue
>>733736816they should make rolling burn 3/4 of your stamina bar like it did in DS1max two rolls, if you get baited twice you eat the next attack with no roll or even attack possible as the price of trying to be a budget Sonic the Hedgehog
>>733738673You can't run and press R2 + face button at the same time? Or jump then press R2 + face button? Do you have the finger dexterity of an 80 year old?
>>733738364
>>733726547>>733737015Lock-on is a shitter filter. You're not supposed to use it in combat. Git gud.
>>733738931>You can't run and press R2 + face button at the same time?Yeah you can't>Or jump then press R2 + face button?Yeah you can't
>>733739015You have never played a fighting game in your life have you?
>>733726281Margit must have really destroyed your bussy lel
>>733739090You never played a Souls game in your life, have you?
>he's still filtering anons into a tardrage to this very dayKneel
>>733738982>Programs in feature>Hahahaha it is all according to my bukkake (keikaku means plan) that the feature is inconveivably bad>You, as a stupid consumer, will pay extra for it ans then thank me for fucking your wife
>>733738364And where's the fun in that? Balance has no places in these games. This isn't some esports faggotry we're playing here.
>>733739124All you need is to have the B button free so you can run and press a bind at the same time. For jumping you only need to press it once, then you press R2 + face button afterwards. They could even be so bold as to make running a toggle on R3 and put crouch on Y + Dpad down or something. Saying it can't be done just proves you're a smoothbrain.
Slow it down
>>733726281In no particular order: - Enemies no longer input-read with a 0 ms reaction time- Summons are removed- Leveling and weapon upgrades are gated by boss progress- Parrying is useful again- Superfluous weapons are removed- Buffs, such as golden vow, scale with the casting stat instead of providing a huge bonus with minimal investment- Blocking is significantly nerfed- Parrying, rolling, jumping, and running are all required in order to successfully avoid all attacks. To give credit, the DLC played with this a little bitI'm sure there are more things that I would do, but that's what I can think of right now.
>>733739342It's a feature not meant to be used in combat. Only a pure shitter would need that explained to them. Elden Ring is a real video game not some casual non-game like RDR2 or BG3. So play it properly or gb2/minecraft.
>>733739346balance weaknesses not strengths>parryslop>needs frame-perfect timing or you might as well not even try>rollslop>burns up stamina and can still be caught if enemy uses lock-on>poiseslop>you're slow as hell, better have perfect positioning and timing or you'll be chipped to bits by faster opponents no matter how super your armor is
>>733739543Elden ring is a real video game? Is that what autistic latinos tell themselves these days?
>>733726281Are you including balance changes? If not then>1let people equip more than 1 ash per weapon, you access them by holding the AoW button and the options open in the item menu in the bottom left corner, just like quick item use>2Give spells the same treatment, holding the spell button opens the menu for 4 different quick use spells, you can still slot more but each goes in a set of 4 that can be toggled between them.>3Give spells fucking scaling already, a bunch of early game spells outclass lategame spells because they dont right now>4Overhaul of status effects, what is currently available is serviceable but we can do more to make them more interesting rather than different flavors of bleed or poison>5add versatility from nioh2 to spell usage and weapon skill usage (either as a ring or just a built in system)>6Straight up make the different defence types relevant, this is more of a balance change but fucking 90% of physical enemy attacks do "standard" damage, its fucking lame>7Just remove weight/equipload counting secondary weapons already, it lowers player creativity>8make jumping "obligatory" to avoid certain attacks (aka, just make some attacks that you can i-frame roll through). I appreciate the "liberty" they wanted to give on choosing how to avoid attacks but its wasted depth>9Make the deflect tear built in with the player, though make it an incredibly nerfed version of it and give options for the player to build around making it stronger>10bring back the bb limb system for huge enemies and build them around the mechanic. They tend to suck as normal fights so maybe they work better as gimmicky ones.
>>733726281>How do you improve upon this combat system?by improving some weapon types, both in moveset and varietyit's criminal how axes and maces are depicted when compared to swords
>>733739365So you finally checked the Elden Ring control scheme>All you need is to have the B button free so you can run and press a bind at the same time. No you can't>They could even be so bold as to make running a toggle on R3No, that would be shit, it would be inaccurate and bad to use. Initiating a run should be accurate, on hold and able to be halted and resumed at will>For jumping you only need to press it once, then you press R2 + face button afterwards.But then still need to allow players to input a weapon swap and spell que shift or an handling swap while attacking or casting or redirecting spells with the thumb stick, which means attacks needing face buttons is a no-go for any scenatioFromsoftware will never drop the current control scheme to give a bunch of overlapping moves.Its current iteration gives a lot of options, that are all complementary and designed to work in tandem with camera and movement controls. Deal with it
>>733726281Make every change that Nightreign made.Someone put it best by saying that in Nightreign, you are as quick as the bosses. It makes a world of difference and feels great to play.
>>733741086>In Nightreign I can stall the boss to abuse fully iframed ults and revivesFTFY
>>733741146There is nothing wrong with Sekiro-style revives.There is no argument in saying "there is a cheesy way to play the game" because every FROM game will always have cheesy ways to play.No one "abuses ults" while stalling for infinite time.
>>733726281
>>733741432this is what 'action game' 'fans' actually believe
>>733726281The faster these games get, the more I hate the lock-on system.Also give me a real way to unsheathe my weapon and make heavy weapons actually look like they weight something instead of nothing. It looks very stupid when I'm wielding something bigger than a claymore and my guy has the same animation and walking speed as when I'm wielding a dagger.
