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Who has more proof of being the Knight?
Dess or Noelle?

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>>733813468
We'll figure something out.

>>733814078
dess is going to have a big goofy af red nose, screencap this

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>>733813468
I miss having allies in this game. Susie is a good wife but she doesn't beat the previous two.

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>>733814078
Dess, definitely. Noelle has a boatload of Angel foreshadowing versus being the Knight.

Susie gets too much in chapter 3 and 4, its suffocating.

Susie gets too big, she’s suffocating meeee

>>733816320
She's literally the main character of these games. The anime protagonist.

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>>733814078
atm most proof for one can also be used for the other
biggest one in favour of dess is the silent guitar riff when the knight pushes kris back into the final prophecy room

>>733813468
Susie has never apologized for her behavior

>>733815207
>that pic
Why is Kris being such an autist about us, we're making friends now.

>>733817284
susie shows some regret for it in ch3 when you talk to her after board 2
she says something along the lines of 'we could've been friends way earlier' with a look on her face

>>733817284
As if Kris would want a apology.

>>733817284
She will in the ferris while they're holding hands

I don't mind Kris being antagonistic but the little faggot needs to stop spiking me into the cage. Angsty little shit.

>>733817284
She'll make up for it by taking 1000 liters of krum (kris' cum) into her mouth, ass, amd womb

>>733816980
doesn't make it any less eye rolling
>wow Susie is so cool nothing gets in her way she's so inspiring wow
I hope she's headed down a hill to hell in the next few chapters. Make her really struggle. Make the Susie from ch. 1 surface a bit.

>>733817665
She's going to be when she learns the truth, and revert back to her old self while the real twist is something else no one expect3d

>>733817665
I am so terrified of this happening to the secondary protagonist in my Touhou fangame that almost everybody who isn't a human villager constantly mocks and belittles him.

>>733814078
I think people who don't want Noelle to be the Knight are people who want her to be an alternative waifu on normal route, but it's snowgrave that is obviously a Noelle route

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>>733814078
It's Dess

>>733818057
What fangame?

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>>733816980
pretty much this, we are only controlling the secondary character Kris Uchicha from HIdden Hometown village and Susie will make us reject Orochimaru(Noelle) and power

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>>733817284
What do you think Susie will tell Kris on the Ferris Wheel ride? Obviously her backstory and why she bullied Kris and it will lead to her apologising and maybe some shipping stuff

>>733818495
Touhou X Deltarune fangame. Basically a story taking place in Gensokyo with the gameplay, and some thematic similarities, of Deltarune.

>>733818862
sounds autistic

>>733819025
It is.

>>733818862
Is the MC a male human self insert?

>>733817284
i think she will eventually

>>733819214
Male or female, you can pick as well as choose to be ambiguous like in Deltarune.

Though no matter what you pick they aren't actually you.

>>733813468
Chapter 5 will fucking DESTROY any kind of discussion that could be had about this game on this website.

>>733819765
gigi forced him to spend two months of dev time on the excessively long overanimated suselle makeout scene he will retcon it in two weeks i swear

>>733817284
teens aren't really known for doing that, i know for a fact i never did

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>>733819765
well well, it's only fair for the shipfags to get keked this time

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>>733817284
Why are you such a pussy?

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Kris' treachery sunk Krusie's chances. They might make up at the endgame but any blossoming romance will be smothered by the revelation. Noelle is probably just going to be the winner by default because she's the only close friend of Susie who isn't manipulating her.

>>733815207
Actually she does, because Frisk is not a character and Chara is an evil retard

>>733817284
It's been less than a week, she'll only actually feel bad about it suddenly years later
>>733821496
>Kris' treachery sunk Krusie's chances.
They'll have a fight over it but once he makes clear what his intentions actually are (and they are benevolent), she'll come around

>>733821625
The friendship will survive but they aren't going to end up dating. She will be really, really Pissed off when she finds out Kris has been working with the creature who attempted to murder Tenna and Jackenstein (and possibly succeeded if you failed at damage control).

>>733821728
What about when she realizes darkners are bullshit

>>733821930
...Krusie is fucked lol

>>733821930
but ralsei already told her that

>>733821496
her and kris' bond will be stronger once they get over that hurdle
remember what happened with lancer

>>733822058
Yeah but she doesn't believe him yet. Also his explanation wasn't really right either. The way he describes darkners makes them out to be some kind of magic slave homunculi race like harry potter elves. But what they actually are is imaginary friends

>>733815207
>Chara
>obedient
>doesn't act out
Since when were you the one in control?

>>733813468
I want Susie to vore me into her pussy

>>733822148
Yeah but she will be way angrier about this one. Noelle will have gone for the kill by the time they make up.
>>733822161
Darkners are real enough to cripple Berdly in the violent route.

>>733822365
Even ideas can kill you if you wander past the veil of reality and into a magic world where dreams are alive.

>>733822573
Yeah they're alive so Susie's never going to be okay with them getting killed right in front of her.

>>733822161
they're all video game characters, Susie is as fake as any darkner

>>733822675
Well sure but that's outside the scope of the story. Hopefully.

>>733822573
Are dark worlds real and alive and can affect people or figments of imagination and as such have no actual power, you can't have both motherfucker.

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>>733823010
>but that's outside the scope of the story. Hopefully.
anon we're talking about toby fox here

the ultimate point of undertale's story is that it is a video game

>>733823140
Undertale never acknowledged the unreality of the world itself iirc. As far as the game was concerned all of your timefucking reset shenanigans were a natural result of Frisks determination powers.

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>>733823140
It's kind of the opposite. It is "just a game" but it's also about reaching through the screen and pulling you in.
The end of the Sword Route is about as blunt as you can get with it.

>>733813468
Kris sabotaging Susie genuinely pissed me off. Stuff like this doesn't usually bother me like that but I was glaring at him every time he showed up for the rest of the house segment. I was so mad that I didn't even register that Sans ate the pancakes, I was just glad they weren't there so Kris couldn't have them.
I haven't done the Weird Route, but after Ch4, I think I understand why some people are so passionate about it. Well, besides doe rape. If Kris wants to be a sneaky bitch, he can suffer for it.

>>733823042
You can when magic exists retard. The dark world is a lower plane of existence, the collective unconcious of the lightners manifested as anthropomorphized objects through shadow magic, which seems to be some kind of derivative of DETERMINATION

>>733823567
Yeah, and can they affect reality or not? Darkners are as real as anyone, Ralsei proves that by obviously caring about his friends and being overcome with emotion during Chapter 4. Darkners are real living beings, they're just lucky that most of them are happy being toys and tools.

>>733823242
>At first, I used my powers for good.
>I became "friends" with everyone.
>I solved all their problems flawlessly.
>Their companionship was amusing... For a while.
>As time repeated, people proved themselves predictable.
>What would this person say if I gave them this?
>What would they do if I said this to them?
>Once you know the answer, that's it.
>That's all they are.
>It all started because I was curious.
>Curious what would happen if I killed them.
>"I don't like this," I told myself.
>"I'm just doing this because I HAVE to know what happens.
>Ha ha ha...
>What an excuse!
>You of all people must know how liberating it is to act this way.

>You understand, I've done everything this world has to offer.
>I've read every book.
>I've burned every book.
>I've won every game.
>I've lost every game.
>I've appeased everyone.
>I've killed everyone.
>Sets of numbers... Lines of dialogue...
>I've seen them all.

>>733823724
>Yeah, and can they affect reality or not?
No. Darkners can't do anything to you unless you go into the fantasy realm. Unless you're stupid enough to give one a human SOUL anyway (*cough* *cough* KRIS)

>>733823759
Flowey doesn't know the world itself is made from lines of code. He has seen everything in the underground because of his determination power that exists in-universe.

>>733823851
Dude this isn't about how much awareness the characters have or not.

What I'm saying is that Undertale was very overtly about the nature of video games and our relationship with them. That's why Flowey calls it a SAVE POINT and not just time travel.

At the end of the day, the whole game was an excuse and device to communicate those ideas and nothing more.

Do you really think Deltarune won't go into this angle?

>>733817665
My plot theory is that Carol is going to see Kris and Susie goofing around during the festival and clock that she could get to Kris break his promise. Carol's going to pin the destruction in the church on Susie and arrest her in front of the entire town. And absolutely no one is going to come to her defense. When she begs Kris for help, Carol is going to (implicitly) pull rank and make him stand down, and Susie's heart is going to shatter into a million pieces.
>>733819765
Chapter 5 is a powder keg. So much shit is converging into the festival that no player will escape with their shit un-rocked.

>>733824115
I concede

Susie strikes me as a trailer trash mom

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>>733823832
>uhhh the point of Deltarune is that Ralsei isn't real and doesn't matter because Ralsei said so
Stop being a retard

Noelle is destined to get trapped in an abusive relationship

>>733824225
Actually the point is that Ralsei matters despite being fake because Ralsei is just a manifestation of Kris's idolization of Asriel and a fictional monster version of himself that he imagines would not have fucked up and got Dess killed. He is "real" in Kris's heart, but also no more than that.

>>733824284
There's nothing abusive about the weird route. To Noelle anyway. It's literally just fulfilling all her fantasies.

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>>733824402

>>733824193
Another productive day with another internet argument WON

I'm just trying to warn you to not get caught out of nowhere when Deltarune goes full into that direction and be pissed off due to that.

>>733824359
>Kris's idolization of Asriel
That's a chapter 2 era talking point. Now the consensus is that Kris is feeling hurt over Asriel for whatever reason.

>>733824492
>Now the consensus is that Kris is feeling hurt over Asriel for whatever reason.
That's stupid

>>733824359
Dude, theorizing is fun, but you're pulling assumptions out of your ass like it's established canon, reel it in a bit.

>>733824284
Noelle is designed for female-facilitated rape where Susie holds her down and Kris impregnates her.

>>733824585
that's what she fantasizes about

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>>733824359
Ralsei is literally a real person
The Dark World is not any less real than the Light World, it has always existed and both will be saved according to The Prophecy
Ralsei's identity has absolutely nothing to do with Kris or Kris's brother

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>>733824847
>Equip

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>>733814078
It's frankly baffling how stupid this fandom of faggots is. The knight isn't some random ass lightner and IT (yes IT. That pronoun alone should tell you it isn't some normal lightner under a mask long before you even see the knight) especially isn't someone who we already saw in the dark world already or the person who is established to be missing with her presence being the secret badass knight all along undermining all the emotional weight of her absence. I swear these theories get dumber with each passing day.

The knight is a force of nature, a demon, a spawn. It is an creature that will serve its lord to its best and nothing more. It is a lightner that is treated as a darkner and that is its tragedy.

>>733824912
he'd rather get the thorn ring at this point

>>733813468
The reaction when she finds out the first friend she ever made is actively sabotaging her will be priceless.

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>>733824924
>The knight is a force of nature, a demon, a spawn.
Somehow you are the biggest retard here

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>>733824924
>IT

>>733818402
>>733817219
im confused, why does this guitar riff automatically mean its dess? FIND(ing)HER is the whole point, no?

>>733825043
When she finds out Kris is working with the knight and the soul is a separate person, there's a good chance she'll blame the betrayal on us. She'll be coping hard when the truth comes out and believing Kris is being possessed by a demon that is forcing him to serve the knight is easier than facing the possibility of her first friendship being a lie.

>>733825271
>"WHAT do you reckon that knight fellow is, anywho?
>Proceeds to inquire about the knight's motivations
This doesn't debunk anything I said. It's a demon that serves its master. It isn't some body, it is some thing. Stop being a dumbass that inserts your poorly written fanfiction into the game and treats it as cannon and actually read the text from the game.
>>733825313
The knight is referred to as an it by most darkners (including Ralsei) as they are the ones who would know the most about the knight. Even then, it being referred to with they/them pronouns doesn't invalidate the previous it/its pronouns. Literally anyone or anything can use those pronouns.

>>733825380
It's not Kris that has to find her, it's (Us).

>>733824847
>Ralsei is literally a real person
Nah. He's just part of Kris, brought to life through magic
>it has always existed
It's a few years old at most and will be gone by the end of this week

>>733824758
Susie will approach Noelle with an unconvincing expression and ask her to follow. Noelle will be so excited at the prospect of her fantasies coming true that she'll obey against her better judgement. Susie leads her to a secluded area and then punches Noelle to the ground. Noelle briefly loses consciousness, then wakes up to Susie's claws around her neck. Kris reveals themself. In an awkward but rehearsed manner Kris holds Noelle down by the legs while Susie switches to holding her down by the shoulders. After taking her hands off of Noelle's neck, Susie realizes she forgot to speak. "If you scream... You'll regret it!" Noelle isn't convinced, but she doesn't need to be. She's wetter than a snowman in June with Susie's fingers so close to her breasts.

Kris, despite appearing threatening and calm, fumbles with her skirt and panties (Noelle almost took them off in preparation, but decided that would betray her eagerness). Kris's penis slides in to Noelle slowly and slightly painfully. Noelle had never used more than one finger masturbating, and usually just rubbed herself on a dinosaur-shaped pillow to completion. Noelle felt Susie's drool as Susie leered at the interlocked parts. Her grip was loosening, so Noelle wiggled lightly to snap Susie back to reality. Despite their demeanor, Kris was an amateur. They entered Noelle, then rapidly thrust to completion in less than 30 seconds. Noelle was, for a moment, disappointed, but the thrill of Kris discarding her pleasure and, even deeper, the thrill of being desired by Kris and Susie sent her mind into a deep and consuming bliss that overrode any other sensation. Her head rolled back and Susie glared surprised at Noelle's drooping eyelids and idiotic smile.

>>733825485
just put the amalgaknight pasta in the bag bro

>>733825435
I think what's really going to fuck Susie up is that the person she's friends with isn't Kris, and isn't us either. It's someone in between, a mix of our personalities. I think that's what the lines "whatever you are right now" and "when did you start being yourself" are relevant to. The answer is that we aren't Kris, but just someone called "Kris", and we have been since Chapter 1.

>>733825842
>we aren't Kris, but just someone called "Kris"
Given the monochrome Kris has hidden on his body, I'm not convinced that the Kris we're playing as is really Kris either.
A Goner in the shape of a human. I wonder what that would look like.

>>733825485
Fact: everything is poorly written fanfiction until the dog speaks.

I can't be the only one that reads "gooner" instead of "goner" every time it's written.

>All this deer talk, thread after thread

I am going to post my own unrelatedish theory that Susie is the angel

In each chapter, she "saves" someone through kindness and friendship rather than brute force (Lancer in Ch.1, Noelle in Ch.2, Tenna in Ch.3 and Kris and Ralsei in Ch.4). She has healing magic that rivals Ralsei's under the right circumstances and is only getting stronger. It has been implied that Noelle is the "girl" that the prophecy refers to, which leaves Susie to fill a different role. And most importantly, to counter the theory that Noelle is the angel, Noelle is fascinated by angelic imagery, what else is she fascinated by? That's right, Susie. This concludes my schizo theory, you can call me a retard now.

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>>733826268
what if susie AND noelle are the angel, just depending on what route you take? noelle being the angel on weird, susie being the angel on normal, as sort of a parallel to the legend in undertale where the meaning of it changes based on which route you go

angel - us
knight - noelle or original kris (we're playing as copy kris)
mike - real and exists
geno (undyne the undying) - kris + susie together
geno final boss - ralsei

>>733826268
it's not the most unreasonable idea. if anything it's too grounded, doesn't have the pure psychosis to take off as a proper schizo theory.

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>>733817284
trust the plan

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Out of all of the contested theories, I cannot fucking believe the player being the angel is fought back by a single spamton line (when he could literally be referring to (You))

>>733814078
They literally say in game that the swords in Noelle's house belong to Carol.

The game literally tells you in chapter 4 who the knight actually is

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>>733826752
>no bro its just noelle here haha

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>>733826715
Time traveling Susie kicking her own ass?

>>733826268
eh I can totally see toby pulling this shit for his waifu

>>733826752
>>733826817
The angel is almost definitely (you), but there's always room for a switch up in the 11th hour, in waterfall the monster with a human soul is depicted as a "strange creature" and it's "unsettling". There's a chance that the angel isn't (you), but what happens when (you) combine with something else. Leaving you as only half of what this story's angel means.

>>733813468
Why does she want to fuck Kris?

>>733826928
well it might be just a monster with a human soul then

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OFFICIAL DEFINITIVE ROARING KNIGHT'S IDENTITY LIST

ALWAYS BET ON PAPYRUS KNIGHT TIER
>Papyrus

UNIRONICALLY MORE INSANE THAN PAPYRUS TIER
>Noelle in any way
>Our Kris is a copy of the real Kris, and Kris Knight was true the whole time

GOD TIER TRICKERY, TONY FOX
>Rudy
>Asriel

COOL TIER
>Carol
>Dess
>Vessel with Kris's real SOUL
>Asriel/Dess with Kris's real SOUL
>Vessel with Asriel's or Dess's SOUL

OK I GUESS
>Vessel by itself
>IMAGE_FRIEND / ERAM

ABSOLUTE DOGSHIT, IM SHITTING IN YOUR ONSEN TOBY TIER
>"""dess's corpse/dust/soul/possessed by dark forces""" alone and anything similar
>"""asriel's corpse/dust/soul/possessed by dark forces"" alone and anything similar
>character we haven't seen before
>multi knight / amalgaknight
>gaster's stand-in/titanspawn

>>733826973
well yeah, but I worded it that way because this story also has darkners so it could either be that or a darkner with a human soul. One way or the other it could be a combination of (you) with something not human.

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>>733826970
They have chemistry

>>733826928
>>733826973
Funny, that's what I think the Knight is.

>>733814078
Papyrus.
The knight's a skeleton, Papyrus is a skeleton. I mean come on.

>>733827012
Where does “some Darkner with Dess’ Soul” belong on that list?

>>733827058
>a darkner with a human soul
that's almost what flowey was

>>733827128
I just came up with the concept of dess getting stabbed right in the soul and a dark fountain coming out of it

>>733827183
>papyrus was a classmate of Dess and Asriel, which is why Gerson was made into a Darkner

>>733827183
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=oakBmDxo8qc
Clearly. Toby has been setting this up for a decade.

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>>733826752
i never thought about it before but
>the one who has seen the surface
>they will RETURN
what the FUCK did toby mean by this

>>733827438
Undertale Hard Mode after Deltarune trust the plan

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>>733813468
I hope Toby will let me rape her too, but I'll understand if he won't.

>>733827229
I will literally shit in your fucking onsen, Toby.

>>733827564
yeah but she will fight back

>>733827438
Chapter 8: Overtale

>>733826715
>Kris from the past
Oh, holy shit! Two Susies!?
>Kris from the present
>Oh! Holy SHIT! Two girlfriends!

>>733827087
I have to voice my appreciation for artists that can make women muscular AND cute. Always incredibly based. I wonder if Toby had this in mind when designing Susie, encouraging artists to learn.

>>733827564
>EQUIP thorn ring on susie
>K-Kris...? What are you...
>...
>Alright, I... I get it.
>This is how humans play chicken, huh? Your turn, nerd.
>kris and (You) somehow gets mindbroken by susie's EQUP

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>>733826268
You call THAT a schizo theory? Hold onto your balls because I'm about to blow that shit out the fucking water.

The entire main party is made up of usurpers, none of them are whom the prophecy refers to. People wrongly assume that Dess is the lost girl, but it's actually Susie. The lost girl motif only plays in scenes relevant to Susie. In Noelle's room in cyberworld when Susie comes to rescue her, during the music game in TVworld, it's even present in the BGM for the Knight battle, where Susie is the one talking down to the knight. The guitar will be a red herring, much like Dess herself, who had a whole pile of instruments. Ralsei is no prince. The only evidence that he is was that he told us he was one. But the kingdom is empty upon your arrival, what kind of prince has no subjects? You do meet a prince even before Ralsei though. Lancer is the Darkner prince to whom the prophecy refers to. As for Kris? He IS the human.... but he's not the one in control, you are. The original party was suppose to be Kris (sans you), Noelle, and Lancer. Ralsei is a pawn much the same way the knight is, leading the current party down the path of the prophecy in order to circumvent it, rather than fulfill it. He will eventually rebel and try to make amends, but it will be too late, the world will be doomed by then. The only hope will be for (you) to go back and recreate the conditions of the prophecy by force, which is what the weird route is.

>>733827751
>kris and (You) somehow gets mindbroken by susie's EQUP
how WOULD susie react to Kris being weird route noelle-tier obsessed with her (romantically) suddenly?

>>733827438
It's pretty simple. On Pacifist, the one who has seen the surface is Asriel, and his return is marked by becoming his God of Hyperdeath form, instead of being Flowey.
On Genocide, the one who has seen the surface is Chara, who returns when Frisk hits LV20, and finishes their transformation into them. Either way, these two were the ones who made up the monster with a human soul.

>>733827762
>weird route starts with kris, noelle, and LANCER technically
AIIIEEEEEEE AIIEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

>>733827762
all of that has been said and discussed before

>>733827012
Canon tier: Dess (probably with Kris's soul)
Retard tier: you

i feel people discussed the angel more in the chapter 2 era

>>733825380
dess is the only character heavily associated with guitars, and the riff that plays is the same one that hers makes when kris gets caught in her closet with it

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>>733826268
susie angel was a theory that was kicked around in the late ch2 era
it's still possible, but i think noelle currently has the most going for her as angel avatar

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>>733825601
>Ralsei is just part of Kris, brought to life through magic
Pure surface-level fanfiction slop. Ralsei is his own person with his own identity, something that Kris personally affirms repeatedly.
>It's a few years old at most and will be gone by the end of this week
The Dark World has always existed and it will be saved by the Heroes alongside the Light World.
Please play the game.

>>733823737
what does it mean

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The only 2 good angel candidates are Player and Gaster. I lean more towards gaster.
IIf the player is the angel, what does us being banished mean? What, are Kris/Susie/Ralsei going to kick us out of the game? What is the Angel's Heaven? Castletown? Well why didn't they just seal that immediately then?
This doesn't work because Deltarune is meant to be replayed, and the characters cannot meaningfully stop us.
We literally have an ability called BANISH.

>>733828328
We don't get banished.
We meet with our desire (getting to be inside of our vessel)
They banish our heaven (castle town). The final prophecy is sealing the castle town (susie singles out ralsei on the heroes not letting it happen)

>>733828217
>Ralsei is his own person with his own identity,
Nah, Kris and Susie just want that to be true, and so he acts like it is
>The Dark World has always existed
Nope. It's bullshit that appeared when the first fountains were opened a few years ago at most

>>733816217
Notice how THE HEART never changes form whenever crossing into a dark world

>>733828606
I can see the point for desire being meeting gaster/getting the vessel. But...
Why would Ralsei be so concerned over the final tragedy if it's just sealing castletown? He's constantly self-deprecating and even tells Susie and Kris to forget about him & make some real friends.
Why would he go on about how he thought that being a pacifist would help change things?

the ending or some late twist is probably linked to the new feature toby said he will have to ask the gamemaker devs to add to the engine
I think it might be something that alters past code or changes the game drastically to allow you to make your own deltarune, in a way

>>733828091
Kris plays the guitar in chapter 3 though does he not? I'm not saying the connection isn't strong, but Dess is clearly not the only person in the world who plays guitar. Then again maybe it's the player and not Kris who's playing, since Kris plays the piano independently of the playing in chapter 4.

>>733829021
>Kris plays the guitar in chapter 3 though does he not?
Yeah but who do you think he learned it from.

>>733827645
Just reminds me that Komu has drawn that, as well as one Susie with two Krises.

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>disappears, even if you didnt do the s-rooms, after the tenna fight
>the SMILE (It smiled.) in the vending machine disappears along with him, even if you die during the ERAM fight and just walk back instead of clearing it
>has a random as fuck sans parallel with the "ill have the usual" joke
>widely accepted to be a schizo that didnt receive a shadow crystal in time
>loves kris more than anyone else, saw him open the fountain, yet gives us the only hint to doing weird route
>is literally the only darkner you can't recruit and bring to your castle town (dustners and FRIEND doesn't count)
>is the only person besides noelle that notices kris isn't their normal self
>is completely optional to talk to despite everything
What the actual fuck is Toby's plan with this character? He's so ridiculously out of place and off-putting, even for Deltarune's standards.

>>733828606
>>733828692
The final prophecy was clearly that the girl will give her life to save the world. Ralsei was very adamant about not wanting Susie to see it above all else and when she brushes it off, he can't believe how brave she is. If it was related to someone else she would be full of fire declaring that they'll stop it from happening, but since it's her, she's probably already accepted the possibility and might even welcome it.

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>>733826268
I appreciate the novelty, it's good to think outside the box.
I will say that Susie DOES have a role related to The Angel, and that's being "The Dragon." Have you seen that concept art from Undertale with the mural of some kind of Angel and Dragon fighting? Something to think about.

Healing and kindness are nice things that we would associate with angels in general, but The Angel in Deltarune has a few specific qualities and actions attributed to it.
>An angel is watching us.
>* Let the Angel's power light your way.
>* (It's an angel doll.)
>* (Its lack of facial features is unsettling.)
>* Good day, Kris. May the Angel watch over you...
>Oh my god, so like, the Angel, that's watching over all of us?
>It has, like, this COOL prophecy, like, foretold by time and space.
>* ... Kris, please, look to the Angel for guidance.
All of this clearly applies to YOU.

>>733828328
Banishing Gaster doesn't really make any more sense than the player. Gaster seemingly created the world in the first place, The Prophecy is infused with Gaster-isms ("foretold by time and space," "the shadows cutting deep"), at the very least he is responsible for our connection to the world which positions him as a higher power than us.
Gaster has also always been painted as a Satanic archetype. An angel can be a devil of course (we're also the "demon heart") but again Gaster seems to be "in charge." We are the one that has descended from "HEAVEN" to Earth (or the Underworld), like an Angel does. We are the one guiding the heroes, shining the way.
>INCREDIBLE.
>I FELT IT THERE
>SHINING.
>YOUR POWER.

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>>733825380
The person Kris is reaching out to here cannot reasonably be anyone but The Knight, who is Dess.
The guitar sound being played at zero volume, which can only be found by datamining, is Toby Fox blatantly confirming this for anyone who still had any doubt after The Knight's reveal in Chapter 3.

>>733829021
kris is most associated with pianos, and the dw guitar kris plays is an electric while dess' is acoustic

>>733828606
>We meet with our desire (getting to be inside of our vessel)
Nobody gives a fuck about the generic create-a-character you looked at for five minutes 10 years ago. We care about DELTARUNE
>The final prophecy is sealing the castle town
That directly contradicts the idea that the Dark World will be saved, and would not provoke such a strong reaction from Ralsei who literally already told Susie that Darkners don't matter

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>>733829257
I am fully aware that the Susie angel theory is full of holes and probably wrong, but consider the following:

>* Let the Angel's power light your way.
Susie kicks off the events of the game, and you literally follow her to the closet where the dark world is. You also follow her for half of chapter 1, as she uses her power to clobber King's men.

>* (Its lack of facial features is unsettling.)
When you first meet Susie, her face is obscured by her hair, leaving you unable to make out much of her face.

>* Good day, Kris. May the Angel watch over you...
Susie is watching over us the whole time

>* ... Kris, please, look to the Angel for guidance.
Can also apply to Susie, in particular I recall her guiding you through parts of the climbing section in the third sanctuary.

At the very least, she'll always be my angel...

>>733829624
I care.
I want my FUCKING Vessel.

>>733829160
Consider how also he happens to be an enemy type which had a very in your face powerful transformation

Ramb was a rugpull for people expecting more schizobosses from the Jevil mold, like all the other ways these chapters were rugpulls.

My guess is either

>he was taken to Mancountry like how the TV World NPCs say others darkners went there
>he was taken to the bunker for some nefarious reason

>>733829695
Nigga your vessel is the one typing in this thread. You're projecting your soul into their world because you're fucking bored. Take what's on the plate

>>733829862
Colored folk like you are why I want to be monochrome.

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A quick reminder to everyone in this thread that G*ster is not cannon. He never appears in Undertale, and there is no reason to believe that he will appear in Deltarune. He is at best and easter egg and at worst, cut content. I would say that tricky Toblerone is playing you, but really you're just playing yourselves. That is all.

>>733829965
Shut up Wing Ding Gaster.

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>>733829663
You know what, based
I'll support you

>>733829965
This is true. People who obsess over cut content and random dead end ARG bullshit instead of the actual story are very annoying

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>>733830052

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>G*ster is not cannon.
>He never appears in Undertale
>there is no reason to believe that he will appear in Deltarune.
>He is at best and easter egg
>and at worst, cut content.

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>>733830150

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This one somehow feels worse yet it's been a fraction of the time.

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>>733830204
How do you think the WAIT would have felt if you knew it was going to be four years?

>>733830204
it's because we have an actual (rough) release date this time
the ch2 era was unclear until about 2 months before release, and that last month was agony

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>>733830052
>>733830150
Oh, so THAT's who Susie reminds me of. Somehow I completely skipped over this line.

lizard girl
resting chin on head

I genuinely wonder what's going to happen to this fanbase once the game concludes 15 years from now.I specifically mean the 4chan fanbase, I don't give a shit about those other faggots. I remember when Undertale came out, there was a guy in the general who was convinced there was some way to save Asriel, and was constantly replaying the pacifist route trying to find some kind of secret or trigger that would change the course of events. Last time I saw an update, he was over 60 playthroughs in and losing hope.... I wonder whatever happened to him.

>>733814078
It's Dess. Nothing truly crazy has happened in the games despite all the wild theories people make. Even the Asgore stuff in Ch 5 will probably be more tame than what people expect. The real question is where is Snowgrave going and all the FRIEND and ARG stuff.

>>733830204
People have been joking about how he'll drop in when Toy Story 5 comes out but honestly that would be a year since Ch3&4 and would line up with his timeframe.

>>733829663
Kris get off 4chan

>>733830753
In act 6, Noelle will be the act antagonist because she's jealous of you and susie hanging out all the time without her, compounded with lingering resentment over Dess's vanishing which she will (probably correctly) blame on Kris. If you're on the weird route, instead, Susie gets some understanding of the situation and turns on you to save Noelle from the 'demon' posessing Kris. The outcome of act 6 will have three possible outcomes: Noelle is defeated, gives up, and leaves the plot (possibly with implied suicide), Susie is frozen, or the group reconciles (possible on either path).
>and all the FRIEND and ARG stuff.
Nowhere.

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So forgive my ignorance, I haven't really engaged with the fandom and I know fuck all about the ARG stuff. Where does this idea of Dess being missing/dead come from? I assumed she was just at college like Asriel until I started reading fan theories. Her room is certainly not in the condition that a dead or missing person's would be and no one talks about her or anything related to her outside of what seemed to be a few throwaway lines regarding her past with Kris and Noelle. I know it starts in chapter 2 but all I got from that was that Noelle is lonely and misses her big sister, kind of like how Kris misses Asriel.

>>733830469
The /v/ threads will slowly die. Occasionally there will be a bait thread about UTDR but not much beyond that.
The /vg/ threads will be an eternal realm of madness.
The /vrpg/ fangame threads will last longer due to the creative output but not forever.
The /trash/ threads will eventually dissipate into the boards background radiation. Chapter 5 will kill a lot of the enthusiasm.

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>>733827590
Too bad, the Knight will be a rebellious Darkner with Dess' SOUL.

>>733831440
Carol flipped the fuck out when Susie touched her stuff. Carol's every day christmas thing is literally her trying to freeze time at a point when her family wasn't broken. Also Dess would have taken her guitar, and if she were just out of town, Noelle could talk to her on the phone. There's also a missing girl that needs to be in some way "found", and Dess is the only one who's conspicuously absent.

>>733830204
The game just laid out even more mystery boxes without opening most previous ones and many here are expecting a let down over things they like. it's over 7 years and we still didn't get shit promised in 2018 like Papyrus.

>>733830469
>I genuinely wonder what's going to happen to this fanbase once the game concludes
>I specifically mean the 4chan fanbase

That all ultimately depends on how the story progresses and how the ending is received.

If the ending pleases most of the anons, we will get threads about the game for the next few decades like how some classic games have now. Fandom posting will also linger for a few years right after the ending, and some fangames will come out of here.

If the ending is abysmally bad, anons will be clowning on it for a while, then the discussion will just vanish like how it was for Game of Thrones.

The worst option, if the ending is very divisive: it will be years and years of joyless arguments of people calling Toby a hack and others calling him a genius and all that shit flinging. Imagine the Mike discourse on steroids.

>>733830469
>>733831587
>>733831645
Homosuck 2.0 leeeets goooo

>>733831587
>The /trash/ threads
I hate how those faggots made two generals focused on two specific characters instead of just doing general smut. It's fucking impossible to get interest into characters like Queen this way.

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>>733831440
in game? nothing outright states that dess is missing, but there are a lot of heavy implications that she's been gone for a while
the in universe reason for this is that everyone already knows the situation, except for susie because she's new in town
for a while there 'who the fuck is dess' was a meme, because unless you were into the whole arg thing and looked at every line of dialogue you'd only have her mentioned in passing by noelle until tenna starts lore dumping her in ch3
frankly i think it's a little silly the game is still being coy about it, but ideally we'll finally get a definitive answer in ch5 about dess' situation when susie finally asks a damn question

Impregnate Kris.

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>>733831808
kris getting revenge for their father

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What the FUCK is this thing's problem?

>>733831641
See, I just assumed that Carol hates Susie and perceives her as a delinquent. In my mind, if it had been Berdly instead of Susie, Carol would have been mildly annoyed, but not kicked him out. As for taking the guitar with her, I know a few guitarist and they all have multiple guitars, so leaving one at home didn't seem weird to me. The christmas thing and the phone and lost girl stuff makes more sense, I think I just assumed that Noelle was the lost girl since that was the OST that plays when he's alone in the Dark world. I don't think I'm autistic enough to get into theory crafting, I'll just take the story as it comes.

>>733831440
Think about Berdly's scene where he recounts winning a spelling bee against Noelle. Their silhouettes are much smaller, indicating these events happened years ago.
Berdly only won because Noelle was asked to spell December and she broke down over it. That's how long ago Dess' disappearance actually happened. It's such an old event at this point that Asgore is portrayed as weird, if not a little obsessive for still being as invested in a years old cold case as he is.
Everyone is at the point where they're trying to move on. There is a conspiracy going on, yes, but not everyone is avoiding the topic of Dess/the bunker/etc. with ulterior motives.

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>>733831440
>Where does this idea of Dess being missing/dead come from?
Noelle and Rudy talk about Dess in Chapter 1, they don't indicate that anything is wrong but she is conspicuously not around, so you might assume (like you said) she's away at college or something like Asriel.
Chapter 2 is where it starts. You have the walk-and-talk with Noelle and Kris spelling out "DECEMBER," which is a little more somber but still nothing to worry about. Then you get the Berdly flashback with the spelling bee, where they're asked to spell "DECEMBER" and little Noelle freezes up and falls to her knees. That's the first big red flag that there's some trauma there. When you get to Noelle's room, this calendar is on the wall - we know that Queen decorates the rooms based on search history, and she mentions Noelle's "strange and sad searches." Noelle is searching for "DECEMBER HOLIDAY," which is a clear signal that she's missing.
The Spamton Sweepstakes made it more clear. Spamton is asked about Dess and confirms that Noelle is searching for her online (specifically saying "fr13nd f1ndh3r" [find her]). Among Noelle's blog posts, we get one apparently written by Dess when Noelle was much younger (https://deltarune.com/icee/), which links to https://deltarune.com/december/ a fake "404 Not Found" page. If you go to https://deltarune.com/dess/ instead, you get Dess's guitar, which plays a rendition of "Lost Girl" titled "findher.mp3"
In Chapter 3, Tenna brings up December as one of the people who hasn't been around in a long time. In the flashback near the end of the Chapter, Dess is the first one to disappear.
In Chapter 4, we get a bunch of information about Asgore and Carol that strongly suggests Asgore is still trying to solve the case of Dess's disappearance, despite losing his job as police chief (which we learned in Chapter 2) and the rest of town considering him to be obsessed and pitiable. And obviously Dess's room and guitar, which have not been touched in a long time.

I still think she is missing, but this made me think how there is a lot of wiggle room with how Dess is actually done in the story.

What we think of her is arguably even more headcanon than we had for Tenna or Mike, maybe even Chara.

>>733831440
Noelle had a melty when being given the word December at a spelling bee as a kid

>>733831931
It largely was theory crafting earlier but chapters 3 and 4 substantiate it a lot further.
- Kris and the Knight are not only covertly working together, but share body language (and drip)
- The Knight's sword appears as a baseball bat before transforming into the saber she uses in battle
- Carol shows unusual levels of tolerance and friendliness to Kris and they talk in private on the phone
-The knight can travel between dimensions, implying it has a soul, which could only have come from Kris, who is conspicuously lacking his soul, and presumably would not have actually ripped his heart out for anyone except the closest of friends.

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>>733831805
>frankly i think it's a little silly the game is still being coy about it
This is why I feel very confident about Chapter 5 getting into what happened to Dess from Kris and Asgore's perspectives, and probably including Noelle as a party member again so she can be there for it.
We need that context before The Knight is unmasked.

>>733832120
Thanks for that breakdown. I didn't play the game until chapter 3 and 4 came out, so some of those finer details got lost in the flow of the game since I didn't need to take breaks between the chapters. More than anything it puts the Asgore stuff from chapter 4 into context for me, I found his behavior at the Holiday house rather vexing. It also underlines why I don't like ARGs. That's just too much shit to NOT put in the actual game and expect people to keep up with. I suppose in the long run it probably won't matter much but I feel like I missed out on something important.

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>>733831931
>I just assumed that Carol hates Susie and perceives her as a delinquent
This is true, and Carol has the ulterior motive of stopping Susie from reading the code she hid inside of it, but it's emotionally charged because it's Dess's guitar.
Noelle knows and says that nobody's allowed in Dess's room, and they ESPECIALLY aren't allowed to touch her guitar.

Just look at Dess's room. It's kind of messy, with all the crap against the wall and the bed not being made, but it's also clear that nobody has lived in that room for years.
This is the room of a child who went missing, which has been left exactly as it was the day they disappeared.

>>733832479
>I didn't play the game until chapter 3 and 4 came out
Could you please tell us how you felt about how each chapter played out?

I wanna know the perspective from someone who hadn't every little thing and hint rotting in the mind for several years.

So what's with all of the hearts in Dess's closet? Is it supposed to be related to Valentine's day?

>>733832636
She thinks I'm handsome. Carol seems to collect a lot of heart pillows, probably for religious reasons, and the closet could be where she stores them. Maybe Dess received a lot of them as gifts and just dumped them in there.

>>733831805
>>733832084
>>733832120
>>733832126
>>733832480
These posts got me thinking about a few things in the timeline. Do we actually know how much older Dess was compared to Noelle and Kris or Asriel? Do we technically even know how old Kris/Susie/Noelle are? It feels like they're middle school aged, or maybe very early high school. And how long has Susie actually been in town? From her description it felt like she was fairly young when she moved in, so I would assume it's been a few years at least. It has certainly been long enough for her to garner a reputation. I'm sure we'll get more context as more chapters come out, but I feel like there's still some pieces of the puzzle that are being overlooked here.

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>>733832479
Toby has been clear about "only stuff in the game is canon," everything important has been or will be stated in the game. Pretty much all of the Spamton Sweepstakes stuff was just foreshadowing things in Chapter 3 and 4.
The stuff that Toby posts on the website or newsletters or whatever is meant for the dedicated fans who obsess over this stuff and want to know everything Toby's willing to tell us. And even if it's too late to participate in finding those secrets between chapters, you can still go back and learn about them. I'm sure there will be more in the future too.

It's like the stuff with Gaster, you don't really need to know about all of that to follow what's going on in Deltarune (yet), but if you do know about it then you get to stand up and clap when another character says "darker yet darker."
And honestly Toby's on so many layers of bullshit that we're all just along for the ride in the end.

>>733832636
There's a theory she disappeared on the day before Valentine's (2-13, like the other parental control code in Chapter 3) and those are unsent obligation Valentine's.

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>>733832636
Noelle says that Carol has been collecting heart pillows since before Kris was a kid, so either they're hers and they're being kept in Dess's closet for some reason or Dess collected them too.

>>733832912
we don't know the exact age range, but going from the single sprite of dess/ asriel we do have in comparison to kris' and noelle's in the same scene, the former were teenagers and the latter were still children
age difference is unknown, my personal bet is a 7 year difference but some people also think 5 or as low as 2-3
going off of the 'how long did it take her to smile' arg thing, noelle is about 16 and it stands to reason all the other people in the class are also that age, give or take
susie has been in town for a few months, she was moved around a lot in the past, her bad reputation is both due to susie being socially inept and then playing into the fact that everyone is scared of her, despite her not really wanting that

>>733833321
Asriel doesn't seem to have been in college for very long so I don't think he's that much older than Kris.

>>733832912
>Do we technically even know how old Kris/Susie/Noelle are?
latest arg suggests noelle is on 14-16 range
also the students are already thinking about uni and have part time jobs, including waitresses. they are at high school minimum. dunno where people get the idea of middle school from, that was obvious since chapter 1

>>733833380
he may not have gone immediately, all the other people in his age range are still around town, and burgerpants is working
remember that even with a 7 year difference if kris is 16 asriel's only 23

>>733817284
It's been like 3 days and she's be on adventures pretty much nonstop. Give it some time.

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>>733832912
The "Smile" ARG implies that Noelle is 16 years old, which seems appropriate for her and Kris with the evidence available in-game (they go to school with parental supervision but their classmates have part-time jobs and talk about preparing for college).
Kris and Noelle are consistently depicted as being younger kids when Dess was still around, implying a significant age gap between them and Dess and Asriel. We can only speculate about this, but the gap is probably in the ballpark of 5 years. Based on Dess's room and characterization she was probably an older teenager when she disappeared, and Asriel being in college now implies he's no older than his early 20s.
Susie likely hasn't been in Hometown longer than a school year. "The Newest Girl" confirms that she is the "new girl" in the same class we see in-game, which fits with her classmates not really being familiar with her and still shunning her. Susie's description of her home life heavily implies that she's a foster kid who gets moved around a lot.

>>733833380
I think Kris searching "summer vacation when" and it currently being Fall in Hometown implies that he's attended for at least a year already. But everyone still talking about him and missing him does make it seem more like his second year than his fourth.
It still makes sense if Kris is 16 and Asriel is like 20

>>733832559
Sure, I specifically avoided discussions and spoilers up until that point, and I decided to play when I did because I started seeing what I thought were spoilers (it was the Asgore truck meme) and wanted to learn about the story on my own terms.

I actually didn't like the game at first. The town stuff was fun, but once I got into the dark world I started getting a bit annoyed. I thought I was going to hate Lancer and the mechanic of stopping Susie from attacking enemies gave me heartburn because I thought there was going to be an Undertale style route system. Those opinion turned around pretty much as soon as Susie ditched the party to join Lancer and I was hooked after that. Loved the rest of chapter 1 and I made sure I at least did the Jevil fight for the dark shard for "secret" content.

Chapter 2 was mostly good, I felt it was a bit long winded in parts and I was worried the tone was going to stay the same after that point, but I was pleasantly wrong. Again I made sure to do the dark shard content, and would continue to do it for the rest of the available game.

Chapter 3 was my "least" favorite chapter, but only because my perfectionist trait kicked in and I ended up doing each of the two boards again for S ranks. For both chapters 2 and 3 I liked it more as it went on. I was unaware of the weird route at this point, but the secret game/ERAM stuff was still really interesting and made enough sense for me to catch on to gist of it, since I played Undertale. The Knight reveal was my favorite part of the game so far, though I'm not sure how I feel about the theories going around about it. I finished the chapter at 2am and went to bed with my head buzzing.

This is way longer than I intended so I'll make 2 posts.

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>>733833610
Did you think about The Knight's identity at all after Chapter 2 or did you just assume it was Kris? That was probably the biggest divide among fans for the whole wait between chapters, you can imagine how people felt toward the end of Chapter 3 when it seems like Tenna is going to out Kris as The Knight and then he gets fucking cut in half
Also interested in what you think about The Knight now, a lot of fans assume that the people playing the game "blind" without being hooked into all the theory shit over the years aren't going to pick up on the stuff with Dess and would instead be led to believe it's Carol.

>>733833610
I'm going to bed now so I'll thank you in advance for your report on your experience.

>>733825601
Nah he's Asriel.

Mancountry sounds like the name of a ranch in a gay porno

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>>733834135
you're in luck

>>733833610
Chapter 4 was the best one overall, consistently good all the way through. Loved the imagery and music in the dark world, and Kris and Susie being buds really elevated the post chapter 3 vibes. I probably have the least to say about this chapter though, I feel like a of the surface stuff was pretty straight forward. I feel like the ending was a good point for a cliffhanger, I would probably have been a lot worse off if I had ended up having to wait after chapter 2 or if 3 was the stopping point. I thought the Sans reveal was the perfect comic relief moment after the emotional rollercoaster of the third sanctuary. I know a lot of people got pissed off about it, but am I wrong in thinking that Sans actually saved Toriel from the Knight? I thought the whole reason that the dark world was opened in church was another attempt to kidnap her. He definitely knows more than he lets on, as usual.

Like I said before, I glossed over some of the more subtle details along the way but not all was lost on me. The theories that are running through my head are mostly about Ralsei, he's been suspicious to me since chapter 1. I know Toby hid his true appearance though most of chapter 1 for a reason, and there's definitely a connection to Asriel. My current headcannon is that he actually is Asriel, but from an Undertale timeline. I don't have anything to back that up with though, just a gut feeling I have. He's definitely hiding something and it's going to be a big reveal in a coming chapter. Now I get to stew in the anticipation of chapter 5 with everyone else. I'll probably check out some of the secret content that I didn't do like the egg stuff, but I think I'll avoid the theory factory for now. Hope that satisfies your curiosity, didn't expect anyone to care about what I thought about the game.

>>733834181
I don't know where he's going with it, but the Ralsei/Asriel parallels are definitely setting up for something big.

>>733834181
ch4 has the best flowing music in the dark world
when the chapters first dropped i was a bit disappointed how they didn't have any standout hype songs like big shot, but dark sanctuary > from now on > second sanctuary > third sanctuary is a fantastic buildup for the story
add on gerson and the titan's songs and although they aren't as flashy, they're constantly expanding on each other

>>733833989
I didn't even consider the Knight to have an identity outside of being "The Knight". All these theories about it being Kris or Dess or Noelle all seem kind of farfetched to me. I don't believe the Carol plot has anything to do with the dark world directly, rather it will tie past and current events together and reveal motivations for the actual culprits. I am notoriously hard headed when it comes to wild theories though, I've just seen too many of them come and go in different fandoms to want to change my mind so easily. Learning about the Dess plotline has definitely given me some new things to think about though, so maybe I'll come around.

>>733834410
Black Knife feels like a standout track. At least to me.

>>733833610
>the secret game/ERAM stuff was still really interesting and made enough sense for me to catch on to gist of it
Do you mean that you understood it was some sort of instructions? I had the weird route spoiled before Chapter 3 came out, so I've always wondered if a new player would be able to figure it out blind based on the hints in Chapter 3.

>>733834427
that's the biggest issue with all of the knight candidates
we have no idea what the actual motive is outside of 'prophecy said it'
surely there has to be more to it than that, right? especially considering everyone that we know that has seen the end of the prophecy clearly considers it a bad thing

>>733835329
black knight is a good 'oh fuck' song but not in the same way as big shot or world revolving if that makes sense

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>>733815207
To be fair their claims are on deltarune grounds
So their possible lack of taste is hidden
threads have been too repetitive for a good while so i think all hooman frens are doing something else while ch5 arrives, sanest members of the fandom after all!

>>733829402
Toby is not naive anymore. He knows leaving things in only a data miner see's will cause people to schizo out.

>>733831861
Having to work for King messes up a mother fucker

>>733830241
It's only been eight months, and it already feels way worse than chapter 2 to 3.
After 2, it still felt like just a quirky little adventure in some colorful whimsical lands to save the world from a nebulous force.
Now there's some serious emotional weight for the characters, and Chapter 4 starts and ends on a very calm and somber note that Toby does extremely well, the few times that he does. Like the music box statue, the Sans date, or the walk to Asgore's house.

>>733835329
I didn't pick up on it being instructions. I took it more as a warning to both the player and Kris that your actions do in fact have consequences. I also miss-spoke a bit, I knew there was "another route" but I didn't know what it entailed. But I did think that chapter 3 was referencing it since part of the secret game takes place in a cyberworld-esq city and I knew that's where the route started.

>>733835354
I see where people are getting Kris = Knight from, but I read that plot point very differently. To me, I took it as Kris realizing he could open dark worlds because of what Queen said in chapter 2, and wanting more adventure, deciding to open one right there for Susie and him to take on. Susie does something very similar in chapter 4 so that just cemented it for me. The interactions with the secret game in chapter 3 (especially the mini-Kris coming out of the screen) and Kris's reactions during the Knight fight struck me as more of a guilt trip. And to drive that point home, the Knight "knighting" Kris after your fleeting victory felt like a mocking action to me. As if the Knight was saying something between "you made this possible, this was your fault" and "you aren't even worth a proper slash". As for why Kris doesn't swoon, I just took that as humans being built differently than monsters/darkners, but maybe I'm underthinking it.

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>>733835993
you misunderstand me
i am very much not a kris knighter, never was
i'm more asking about the knight's motives in a broad sense
kris is working with the knight insofar as kris will not attack it unless absolutely necessary to keep up appearances, the situation with the phone calls are still too vague to properly interpret
whoever the knight is it clearly knows kris personally, going off of the final interaction with them in ch4

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>>733830150
Based

>>733836173
I don't know where the idea that Kris is working with the knight comes from. To me, his (it's?) motivation is exactly what it looks like on the surface. An agent of the roaring attempting to fulfil the bad ending of the prophecy. It almost succeeds to that end by summoning the Titan, and without the help of Gerson I don't think the party could have prevailed. I obviously caught on to something fishy going on with Kris, but ending the world doesn't seem like something he (or I as the soul) would want in the slightest. Again, maybe I missed something, but as someone who didn't have four years to let theories fester in my head, a lot of the stuff I've read just doesn't make any sense.

>>733836495
the idea stems from kris pretending to be the knight with tenna until the actual knight arrives, and then sandbagging unless ralsei and susie are downed
knight also does less damage to kris specifically
then later in ch4 kris will refuse to attack the knight if he manages to get to it early on in the chapter, despite susie shouting to attack it
and finally, once the fountain is closed, kris will outright refuse to open the closet door in the church where the knight is heavily implied to be on the other side of

>>733836495
I don't know if you have issues with the biggest piece of evidence people usually cite, or you just don't know about it.

If you beat the fight against the Roaring Knight without getting hit, Kris does a little cough right before the final attack. And regardless of whether you get hit, if you win, Susie and Ralsei get "swoon"'d and the Knight holds her sword onto Kris's shoulder as he slowly kneels down. The animation for this in the files implies that he's being knighted.

There's also the fact that Kris is actively trying to stop you and Susie from getting the code in the guitar at the Holiday house in chapter 4. At the end of the chapter, you get the opportunity to turn the door knob on a large door in the church, which would be the only place that the Knight could possibly hide, and Kris stops you from opening it fully.

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>>733821496
>who isn't manipulating her
you are retarded if you think literal who sister of Noelle will be revealed as the knight. Kris is working with Noelle

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>>733821728
Before the meltdown, Susie will still get a romantic date in a ferris wheel and the ship will basically get confirmed becuase ferris wheel was the most hyped moment and it didn't happen with suselle

>>733836617
You'll have to show me an example of Kris pretending to be the knight, because I never once picked up on that. Everything else strikes me as Kris just being fucking terrified of the Knight. Like I said in my previous post, I think Kris is wracked by guilt knowing that he is directly responsible for the knight hurting his friends, kidnapping Undyne and almost taking his mother away. He does more damage when Susie and Ralsei are downed because at that point the motivation of saving his friends is outweighing his fear and guilt. Admittedly, I don't have a good explanation for why the Knight does less damage to Kris, perhaps the Knight does know Kris, but I think it's a one-way street. Or else it has something to do with Kris being a Human, which seem to be exceedingly rare in the Deltarune universe.

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>>733826970
Who DOESNT want to fuck Kris? Probably even Alphys fantasize about him

>>733827012
Noelle knight would make Noelle actually important instead acting as princess to be saved by Susie or Kris

>>733836794
So I have to admit, I forgot about the church door part. I also didn't know about the "cough" during a hitless knight fight, but I explained my take on the "knighting" in a previous post. As for the guitar code, I mentioned earlier that I don't think that the plotline with Carol and the code is "directly" connected to the current dark world/knight plot, so I didn't tie that in as a piece of evidence for this theory.

>>733836857
You are retarded if you think Dess is a "literal who".
Even as far back as chapter 2, we had her name, and some pretty brazen clues that she's missing due to mysterious circumstances. Circumstances that led to Asgore losing his job as chief of police.
Come chapter 3 and 4, we got more mentions of her from Tenna, saw her with the Dreemurr and Holiday family in a flashback, and went to her room, which is directly shown to be a touchy subject and not just someone gone off to college like Asriel.
Now, if you want to follow this trajectory, we can assume that in chapter 5 we'll get even more information about her, and still in chapter 6 where I'm guessing all will be revealed. At that point, everyone will have had enough puzzle pieces to figure it out, enough red herrings to argue about, and enough time to play the game with their fucking eyes open for once.
Some people theorized that it was Dess back in chapter 2, before we even saw the bastard, and Kris was the most likely candidate.

>>733827438
It had two meaning
Angel - Frisk. Underground went empty because monsters went back into surface
Angel - Chara. Underground was wiped out.

>>733837168
It's either Asriel or Chara.
The word "return" would rule out Frisk, but Asriel only comes back in full form in a successful Pacifist Route, just like Chara reaches full power in a Genocide.

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>>733836949
maybe pretending wasn't the best wording, but kris and tenna have a deal in ch3 where tenna would keep everyone distracted and blame the fountain opening on the knight while knowing it was actually kris who did it
kris knowing and working with the knight doesn't mean kris isn't scared of it, the battle text during the fight makes it pretty clear kris is extremely disoriented the entire time
we don't know the details of the why outside of some vague promise that kris made with the caller
as for toriel, i don't believe she was ever the target considering how quick the knight snatches undyne the second she makes her presence known, her going for toriel seemed to just be stalling for time, which is a background theme in ch3

>>733830469
Deltarune 2 when Toby in his 40's

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>>733837085
the knight and her princess
just like my utena, rose theme and everything

>>733832994
Reminder Kris and Noelle working together and both are fooling Susie. That's why Noelle stutters and pretend like she's very distanced from Kris and act different when kris is the only one around

>>733837253
I'd gladly miss my kid's graduation if it meant I'd get to play a new Toby release a few hours early.
Sorry little guy, but I've been playing undertale since before I was your age.

>>733837135
then draw her canon face, because as of now the reveal from unmasking the knight would just be some generic goofy deer face and players asking themselves is that Dess?