Why are women smarter than the men in the world of elden ring
>>734906985They are? I never noticed
>>734906985Art imitating life.
my doll wife...
>>734907018No male was smart enough to see the moon. Only females. They saw something bigger than the primeval current. Ranni’s Dark Moon 68intRennala’s Full Moon 70intRellana’s Twin Moons 72intComet Azur only costs 60int
>>734906985tojo has a humiliation fetish
>>734907118> They saw something bigger than the primeval current. The moon isn’t bigger than a galaxy so miyazaki is sadly retarded here
>>734906985just like real life but the complete opposite
>>734907118that just means INT is a representation of occultic perception, not raw intellect.
>>734907118Comet Azur takes up three spell slots in total. Only two other spells in the game take up that many slots, and both are associated with literal god tier characters like Malenia and Placidusax. This means Azur is god tier. The moons take up more intelligence because there’s a presence to them, and all sorcery is alive. It’s either that, or the moons are reflections of the spellcaster (the twin moons the Carian sisters saw were clearly based on their closeness to one another), as moons are not meant to physically overlap. They’re not real moons.
>>734907301>IQ is a separate stathate this meme
>>734907301>the moon is more occult and alien than the black abyss that is deepest space Jesus Christ. No.
>>734906985Big hats make you more smarter
>>734907531Big Hat Ranni!
>>734906985They are the ones that cause all of the problems. Fellas, keep your females in the kitchen and never let them vote.
>>734907301This is actually true. INT isn't actual intelligence. It is more like your Faith in the cosmic divine, over Faith in the earthly divine. This is how religious crackpots like Ymir can teach us high INT spells, because he is extremely religious, but it is all directed towards outer space rather than Earth. Ranni is a religious devotee to her Dark Moon, and it means that her spell has a very high INT requirement. Even if that spell was gained from faith over pure intellect. Radagon was the same, his higher level spells actually began to connect to the cosmic origins of the Golden Order and the Greater Will, and that is why his religious magic is still INT based.
>>734906985Golden Order fundamentalists brain mog Carian foids
The contrast between Carian magic and Raya Lucarian magic is interesting to me. Their philosophies. Their end goals and beginnings. Raya Lucarian magic is foundational in its origins, as the very beginner of glintstone sorcery, but embracing it ends with the total or partial loss of one’s humanity. To change the mind altogether. It’s the goal. It’s a trans-humanist philosophy. It’s not required, but it’s in the implication; or at the very least it’s the whole allure around it; unavoidable if you cannot resist it. It’s a form of spiritual cancer. Carian magic is less foundational, being more martially derivative; it doesn’t need you to ditch your humanity. In fact the lore points to the moon being the sorcerer’s own reflection of themselves. Perhaps. Is the moon closer to home, than the stars? Closer to humanity than the alien? I’d say yes. Carian philosophy ends with the rare discovery of one’s own moon, taking up a lot more intelligence than what is usually typical of Carian sorceries. Why? Clearly it is an indicator of something. What I’m saying is that while the Raya Lucarians’ breakthroughs happen through contact with the alien cosmos, working all the way down from cosmic prototypes (the primeval sorceries) to their smaller forms, Carian breakthroughs appear to transpire through more personal matters; that of martialism, and works up towards the moon. The finishing philosophy of the primeval isn’t a big spell, it’s some transformation. The finishing philosophy of the Carians isn’t an alien transformation, it’s a spell (that transforms you into your own magic rock, momentarily, ironically enough — in contrast with the primeval sorcerers who appear to be rocks permanently). This isn’t always the case, though. Raya Lucarians have their own martial (Haima) derivatives and Carian’s still stare at the stars + moon (Carian philosophy is that the moon goes together -with- the stars).
>>734906985It kinda seems like they pump and dumped the most learned men of the Elden Ring world, learned all of their secrets then moved onto the next guy. Rennala and Ranni 100% pump and dumped men until they knew everything
>>734906985Intelligence =/= Wisdom
>>734906985>women smarter than menThat has never been the case in truth or fiction.
>>734907748> INT isn't actual intelligence. It is more like your Faith in the cosmic divine, over Faith in the earthly divine. That’s… retarded. Sorry. It’s also just not true, Faith and Intelligence are related to Mind. Two sides of the same coin. It’s all based on cognitive function. Faith is a lot more disingenuous since it’s filling in the gaps. Intelligence is just as susceptible to mystery but it’s more to the point. It’s just a fact that Raya Lucaria is a mystery cult, or mystery school, but it worships brains, and the mysteries those brains poke at. Sort of like the archives in Dark Souls 3 worshiping the remnants of Seath. Faith in reason isn’t not religious, but they are not as superficial as faith is.
>>734908016Interesting perspective anon
>>734907748This is objectively correct and anyone who disagrees is simply too stupid to understand.
>>734906985Radagon is smarter than Marika.Rennala was mindbroken by Radagon.Everyone falls for Miquella's charm.It's not like Ranni's the only ending and she's still dependant on you, the player character to achieve her ending.I like From Software games because all their characters have different flaws.
>>734908016Carian Magic is mostly based on militarizing what is otherwise very abstract magic so that an army can use it instead of you needing to study at Hogwarts for 300 years to grasp the idea of a Glintstone Comet. It is mostly rooted in practical things that soldiers would already know about, swords, bows, or shields and parries. The INT requirement vs Damage ratio is often pretty high for this, too. It is Sorcery pared down to pure practicality for a soldier to use in war. With you then having the Royal Family's moon magic mixed in.
>>734906985The women in Elden Ring aren't smart, they're just extremely manipulative.
The moon is actually masculine. It’s only superficially feminine. It doesn’t require a sorcerer to be submissive at all. This is a lot unlike the stars. Rennala became powerful on her own terms. She is dominant, not submissive. The stars would have you submit to their cancerous ruin just like a woman getting fucked in the face by the cosmic cock. To become taken over. To become a stoned out rock. Just totally checked out. Like an abused woman in a horrible relationship. Azur and Lusat maxed out their intellects but got covered in hardened cosmic space jizz in the process. They’re “smart” because their brains were beaten into an alien/inhuman shape. Submission to the cosmic forces. The moon in contrast reflects the stars’ (the sun’s own) light, or filters its cancer radiation—and is this symbolic reflection of the witnesser (the Carian twins were close, glimpsing their moons nestled in one another’s embrace, together as one body), and as such is the reflection of the sorcerer’s own intelligence and ingenuity. “There’s a man in the moon. Have you seen him?” It’s (You).Tldr; academia is masculine but the stars require you to be submissive; meanwhile the moon is superficially feminine and its magnum opus philosophy is a masculine or symbolic representation of the sorcerer (that moon sorcery takes up a bit more intelligence than a deep space primeval sorcery should clue you in that there’s a bit more to the moon than meets the eye) and Carian philosophy is about perfecting the self, not alien trans-humanism. Sellen even says as much when she points out that her philosophy focuses on (altering the human) Mind to the detriment of (the human) Intelligence. Compare Lusat’s staff with Rennala’s staff; the former boosts magic more than the latter despite its lower Int requirement, but is largely impractical or just highly situational due to an unreasonably high increase in FP/Mind expenditure.
>>734907427>Gameplay mechanics equate to loreFume Knight is 10x harder than Velstadt but weaker than him in the lore, don't be dumb
>>734908665The Fume Knight got stronger after his banishment.
Another thing to consider is that in the earlier text versions of the base game, a glintstone crown was described as a sort of “resurgence”, implying that they may not have even been a thing during Carian rule over the academy. But this doesn’t mean that some Raya Lucarians don’t still side with the Carians, as seen with the Lazuli, who are found at the Carian manor and share the halls with the other sorcerous conspectuses. That there isn’t a glintstone crown for Rennala is likely a form of respect. Maybe. Or maybe since men are much more common it’s just the standard to make it men. How unique is Sellen’s crown, for that matter?It’s also possible that the Carians are fine with the glintstone crowns. But this is still pushing it. Shoving glintstone to your face sounds a lot like shoving glintstone into your chest. It borders on primeval philosophy if we really pay attention. The primeval patterned drapes have also placed over the main seat in the debate hall. This is likely a statement of some kind. Going back to the roots. Rennala’s statues around Liurnia co-opted the patterns. Rennala was a symbolical mother to the school. Keeping her students and faculty safe from staring too far into the stars.
>>734908623> Azur and Lusat maxed out their intellects but got covered in hardened cosmic space jizz in the processGlintstone is basically the greater will’s cum yeah
>>734908753And I beat him cosplaying as Velstadt. Get rekt Raime
>>734908763The primeval patterned drapes have also been* placed over the main seat in the debate hall
If I copy paste this into the archive, how many results am I going to get?
>>734908016I like to think that Carian swords orbit the caster the way the moon orbits the earth. But I still think it was dumb to make them sword themed instead of constellation themed. Or at the very least have a rival conspectus doing a similar thing.
>>734907748>INT isn't actual intelligenceThe shit you retards come up with.
Azur and Lusat have literal magic for brains. Goldmask cracked the Elden Ring’s code when no one else could. How can you even make the claim that women are smarter than the men? Shouldn’t Gideon and Ymir be above Rennala?
>>734909134Fromsoft did that twist with Demon's Souls. It isn't a stretch.
>>734907118Elden Ring, where working smarter means working harder, just cast Comet Azure bro.
>>734909134A fucking DOG can cast a 52 INT spell anon. Don’t get me started on the fucking space cows that crash land and start screaming laser beams. I doubt Astel is very intelligent. Looks like a dumb bug.
>>734909240Smarter than you Ahmed
>>734906985>>734907118i refuse to believe this moon INT spell female schizo is a real thing
>>734906985Ranni's intelligence is overblown in all metrics but fate she was btfo by her younger brotherHeck she even gave Tarnished the ring on Miquella's word. The chosen Tarnished who would go on to kill Radahn advancing both of their schemes Ranni's plan was stuck for thousands of years. She was couldn't access the Eternal cities to find the Fingerslayer blade. Meanwhile the Eternal cities are full of Nascent butterflies, Trina and Miquella's lilies. Miquella's allies in the Fallen Hawks ended up getting trapped there long before the Tarnished rolls up Then there's Miquella's and his father Radagon's exchanging new Golden Order fundamentalists incantations like genius contemporary scholars in academia. Miq's master crafted needles, bow, prosthetic arms. Miq doesn't need godhood to ward off outer gods influence just jab yourself with his unalloyed gold needle She can't even come up with a plan for the Lands Between she'll just head off to space with her Order. The moment another Golden Order fundamentalist tier big brain appears and one determined enough to end her godhood she's cooked
> Rennala was a symbolical mother to the school. Keeping her students and faculty safe from staring too far into the stars.BasedShe just wanted to read bedtime stories to her students under the light of the moonTo not want to return to rock
>>734909314It’s funny because ER is a massively feminist game and the amount of chuds in denial of it makes it even funnier. So it works. This bait will always work.
>>734909314
>>734909326If Miquella was so smart why is he dead and Ranni half alive.
Malenia btfo’d the big man RadahnA team of all female ninjas btfo’d the big man Godwyn, orchestrated by strong smart gurl Ranni Only the female albinaurics riding their wolves can save their race! With the help of a giant sleeping woman no less Female ancestral followers are bigger than the males AND the more magical!Demi humans are led by an enormous female “queen” Those bat creatures are led by singing female bats Cleanrot knights are all female and said to be the best fighters ever / totally better than Radahn’s men The spells with the highest faith/int are from women or some feminine twink A smart strong womyn took over the men’s magic club because she’s sooo much smarter than the dumb men I could go on
>>>/vg/560254438
>>734909326Ranni was introverted and secluded where Miquella was extroverted and gathered as many followers as possible. He could send out explorers with his father to places like Nokron, while Ranni was limited to one directionally challenged wolfman as a scout. She just got super lucky that she found a simp in the Tarnished that was willing to back her up. Otherwise of all the factions, she was the weakest and had the least ability to claim power. Also apparently she skipped her classes at the academy because we have to talk to Sellen of all people to learn that Radahn holding back the Stars has frozen Ranni's fate and shit.
>>734909548what's wrong with her eyes
>>734909480Miquella's fate curse was too strong, he pushed ahead and met it in death. He's blessed with abundance but cursed with nascency. Ah what could've been ahh demigod
>>734906985bussy makes you stupid
In myth and folklore the moon is actually more masculine than feminine and it has more to do with wizardry than witchcraft; in fact the foremost god of math, science and magic in the west was a god of stars, sun and moon. Pic related.
This thread again, how many times must we do this...
>>734909749b-but muh lunar cycles and muh periods m-muh triple faced goddess………
>>734908623>The moon is actually masculineIn ER? What is your source. Everything in the game points to the contrary, especially considering it's inspired by alchemy.In real life? Absolutely not.
>>734906985They're dumb as shit, actually.
>>734909749The sex of the moon and sun is basically randomly distributed across cultures. Even within branches of the same ethnic groups, you have divergences. Greeks characterized the moon as female and the sun as male, the Germanics called the moon male and the sun female. There isn't any greater logic to it all.
>>734906985Because it's a work of fiction :^)
A woman? Doing math? I wouldn’t trust it. Obviously she had help from somewhere. Probably some alien simp living the moon is beaming down smart thoughts into her brain or something. Not her own thoughts at all. It couldn’t be. >>734908134This.
>>734909426How is it a feminist game? Present an actual argument.Do you know what feminist means?
>>734909862You're right but>greeks and germanics>same ethnic group
>>734906985you mean "why are Type B smarter than Type A"
>>734910012Well, once.
>>734909575Miq spent most of his day in the pod feeding the haligtree his blood. Ranni was a tall red head hotty. She has no excuse for not gathering a group of followers. But I guess kick starting the Shattering so you can fly to space away from the Fingers isn't exactly a plot many would be on board with but it's Elden Ring. Everyone's off their rockers
>>734909749>>734909862This is cope. Generally speaking in human cultures Sun=gold=masculine and Moon=silver=feminine. Stop looking at exceptions.
>>734909813Did you read the post at all? You huge fucking moron. He’s saying the moon in appearance is feminine, but the Carian method is dominant, and thus masculine. Academia may be dominated by men in appearance, but their method is a very submissive one. It isn’t really masculine to let yourself be taken over by magical cancer. It’s more dominant and masculine to deny that, and reach power without it. Rennala didn’t need to submit herself to the primeval current to use Comet Azur. She might not be as smart or as Buddha like as Azur or Lusat, but still. In a world where sorcerers are corrupting their mind and body into ruinous or unrecognizable forms, Rennala’s breaking point was a surprisingly human one. She lost her husband, then her family, and resorted to magic as a form of depression medication. She was likely broken before she put herself to “rich slumber”. How is this hard to get?
>>734910136What are your examples of sun-male moon-female without Googling it enough to declare it the norm?
>>734906985It's a fantasy game
>>734909954See >>734909491Stop being blind. Women run this world. They make nations and end nations. The men do nothing.
>>734909869*propaganda
>>734910136Wrong. The moon in Japan is male. Thoth is male. The big name gods are all male moon gods. Even the suns are usually male. Although in Japan the sun is actually female. There’s a “MAN in the moon”, not a “woman in the moon”.
>>734907118Why the fuck did big brain martial Carians with 3 Demigods and Rellana lose to a school and a bunch of mercenaries?
>>734910263>the men do nothingActually, I raped all of them :)
>>734906985It's a fantasy setting where the impossible can become possible.
>>734909426>feminist game>in a world where Marika is responsible for everything going to shitDid you play the game?
>>734910402Rellana left. Rennala was broken. Ranni was dead. Radahn was away. Rykard is Rykard.
>>734910513She built everything too, dipshit
>>734910136The moon was always feminine, but it has nothing to do with silver. And the sun was always masculine, but that has nothing to do with gold. You need to stop reading medieval alchemy and learn some real shit.
>>734910513>powerful girlboss villainWow
>>734910513She didn't make the world bad. Everything was doomed from the start because the Two Fingers are frauds.
>>734906985I dunno.Would a Ranni tho.
>>734906985I beat the game as a man, that makes men the smartest, innit?
>>734907118>Highest intelligence in the lands between>Spends all day rotting in a dark room thinking about her ex husbands god cockIntelligence for women means realizing you are made for submission and motherhood. Based miyazaki
>>734910263>The men do nothing.I killed everyone so I can start a blood moon lineage with ranni with my bloodflame powers
>>734910641There where many things before she claimed godhood
>>734910771>posts a culture somehow more evil than she was
>>734910806lol lmao you're a woman
>>734910771Messmer did nothing wrong against these goat fucks
>>734910102>Ranni was a tall red head hottyKey word being "was"After casting aside her body, she's just a ghostly doll that has to take long naps all the time.
>>734907118INT is just knowledge of magic. It's why magic users in these games are sometimes dumb. Think arcane in Bloodborne.
>>734910205That's why I asked for a fucking source, did you even bother reading the three words I posted? Cealrly not.The queens are associated to the moon, are there any other clear sources?
>>734910771This armor is so fucking cool nigga. They really made a 10/10 dlc for a game that was already a masterpiece
>>734911001literally and devoid of all irony: me
Because it's fiction.
>>734910263The strongest person is a man.
>>734910669Elaborate.
>>734911045Arcane in Bloodborne is just dabbling and poking at artifacts. There is no faith or int equivalent.
Men have always dominated academia so it makes no sense for Rennala to be so smart >:(
I like the invader x host threads better
I guarantee you Azur and Lusat have the bigger INT scores in the lore. The only people who wank Rennala are retarded redditors.
>>734907118Assuming Azur never went above 60 intelligence is like assuming Lusat never went above 43 intelligence.
>>734911890I’m pretty sure Lusat > Azur too since he’s more evolved then Azur and his staff is based on the elder wand from Harry Potter.
>>734911547Light pushes its way in the world. Darkness does not. The world is naturally dark.
Yep I was right
For me it's setting Ranni's body on fire with my Golden Order bros right in the middle of Leyndell after getting the Gold Mask ending.
>>734912058George hates Harry Potter so this was probably his way of “doing it right”. Kek.
>>734912056Dark isn’t actually anything. It’s just an absence of light. Are holes anything? Is cold anything? They’re absences. Space has no color/light, because it’s not light.
>>734912067I cast frenzy flame on her doll body at the end of her questline but because she took Blaidd from me, we are not the same
>>734912190Yeah, so it's feminine.
>>734912056The world is naturally light if you want anything to happen at all. Otherwise nothing happens. Even in a Song of Ice & Fire the dichotomy is ironic when ice kills just as easily as it preserves. Life is warm but is undone by too much of it. Balance. Despite the cold being associated with the dead there is *still* energy in their bones, allowing them to move at all.
>>734912067This is just the 'trans struggle' being generic self-actualization that every human experiences. The only difference being the target demographic being largely a bit spergy and prone to exaggeration.
>>734912231Women are holes. This is true. Men are phallic. Wanda and staves and towers and pointy hats and telescopes. This is why magic is more so associated with men than women. Men are the ones poking into the unknown. Women don’t have a monopoly on the unknown when men are mysterious to women the same way women are mysterious to men.
>>734910314not just ANY type of man anon
>>734912343Wands and staffs are recipients. They are not masculine.
>>734906985Magic = magical boost to brain power to Females who naturally function with it at a higher level because without Magic? Women suffer Resident Evil dumb bitch syndrome.
>>734907118efficiency is a sign of intelligence
>>734912475Wrong. They are shaped like penises. That is phallic energy. Cocks are conductive. Directive.
>>734912584You're just saying you think with your dick instead of headThe head is round and so were most crowns or crown motifs through history
>>734912584Is a gun masculine because it shoots bullets? You need to put bullets inside a gun. Same for a wand.
>>734912670Guns are definitely masculine since only men can understand them.
>>734911045Then whats Arcane in Elden Ring?
>>734912651Cope. You still don’t know what phallic energy is or means.>>734912670Men beat lead into submission until it becomes bullets.
>>734912584They are playing a "supporting" role you dumb fuck. Its like moon reflecting sun-light or blocking it. They just help you "direct" the will towards what you want, pointing at something with an index finger is basically the same shit. Only swords and ritual daggers play any "Active - Offense" role in magic ritualism. (The act of controlling or scaring demons into submission; step into the circle and I shall cut you.) Type of deal. Its directly symbolic to its utility.
>>734912731A failed useless stat that they didn’t know what to do with. I’m serious. That’s all it is. You didn’t need it in the game. It should have been based around items. Item discovery, sure, but also using items and magic artifacts. That would have made it more like bloodborne. Dabbling rather than actual constructive spells.
>>734912760So it’s masculine. Got it. Women can’t conduct for shit. They cannot direct. They are without direction. > Only swords and ritual daggers play any "Active - Offense" role in magic ritualismNope.
>>734912731Occult
The reality is this topic is too offensive for people as it involves not hating women for 5 minutes to thinkOne of the main principles of duality is unity, that means male and female. This psychologically also involves>a man thinking about a woman, ergo his oppositewhat does this mean? It means that /v/, by thinking about women and being mad, already failed this step ahead of time, softlocking themselves from making progress in the conversation.The "Wise Men" spoken of thought of loving women, whether mothers, lovers or daughters, they thought about the nature of romance and friendship, of the relation of "other's" women compared to "theirs", and of the nature of fucking and impregnating them. More than that, they thought of beauty, of the nature of themselves in talking up to women, of how women affected their psyche and the nature of their interaction with women. Proof: The actual Divine Archetypes embodying mothers, wives, daughters.They didn't sperg out ahead of time, otherwise they couldn't write any of that or think any of that. But by thinking in natural ways rather than artificial modern ways, they accomplished the "Metaphysical Goal" debated here.Look at this pic. Write something about women after thinking about it. Try and not sperg out and then reflect on your emotions up to that point. It's not hard to realize what the goal is.
>>734912832>The word "arcane" comes from the Latin "arcanus," meaning "secret" or "hidden," which is derived from "arcere," meaning "to close up or enclose." It has been used in English since the 1540s to describe something mysterious or obscureMy Captcha involved selecting the Waxing Crescent Moon lol
>>734912895Circles are not offensive on their own; they can both invite and outcast things you want into them. So yes; I know my shit. What someone still uses some sort of a whip to scare a demon? Of course there's "numerous odd-folk shits" going around inventing things like salt tossing and whatever; Sword is a tool that means business end if you cross its wielder. Nothing metaphysical about it in that sense or convoluted reasoning. (Other than perhaps Holy Water.)
>>734912760Wands and Swords in the tarot are male. Pentacles and Cups are female. The Magus is masculine. Dominant.
>>734906985Gynolatry means that women must always be portrayed as more competent and capable than men
>>734913124>tarotlol lmao
>>734913082> Circles are not offensive on their own; they can both invite and outcast things you want into them. So yes; I know my shit.You don’t. Literally anything can be made into a weapon if you play your cards correctly. Cunning IS the superior form of fighting. Direction transcends you as an individual.
>>734913082Circles in folklore were offensive and defensive lol. And by offensive I mean it quite literally. Something is offended that you won’t let them in. It’s a repulse. Even fucking salt and sugar and iron powder.
>>734910870He sure did. They were a truly unified spiritual society
>>734912976> One of the main principles of duality is unity, that means male and femaleIn ER the feminine had displaced the masculine. The erdtree took up the role of the sun. The moon is too close to the earth. Rennala and Marika defined the cosmology to become feminine. It’s one sided. Masculinity has been cast aside.
>>734906985The smartest character in the game is Goldmask and Gideon Ofnir (unironically, he's just weak).>>734907118If you only consider INT then the tarnished (male by default) is the smartest
>>734913124The "World" tarot (finale, result, philosophers stone) is a Woman representing an Ophanim surrounded by a Hayyot which implies becoming Divine (aka God) in esoteric circles. Same as God. It represents intrinsic wisdom, attainment and being or in other words the literal "becoming God" and having one's "being" be that which drives the "manifest God". Later versions changed it because of the same arguments used in this thread without even knowing the original implications.
>>734913190Not relying on a trusty time-tested methods is a fool's errand. A sword is a symbol of not only "lethal force" (Offense) but also of "authority" in terms regalia. (Command/Power/Status)>>734913245That's what I mean by being "both" rather than just "one of them"; circles are neutral. Neither until intention is cast to them.
Frenzybros. Where we at?Enlightenment awaits.
>>734913082Listen. I’m just pointing out that phallic and phallus refer to the male genitalia, and men are associated with action and force. This goes all the way back to ancient ass Zoroastrianism. Wisdom is feminine but mastery is masculine. The wisest figure is a male, not a female. The idea that tall or intruding things are male oriented in essence isn’t weird at all. This goes in line with how men were the ones to go out into the night and hunt. They’re the ones poking and intruding into mystery. Women stay home. They’re of the hearth. Tenders. Supporters.
>>734909491>Cleanrot knights are said to be the best fighters eversource?
>>734912731Innate power vs acquired power. INT and FTH are acquired from the outer world. Knowledge or faith in something. ARC is just your innate abilities that are a part of your self. This is why most of it is based on Blood magic or consuming physical items and making them a part of your body like with the dragon hearts.
>>734913317The Erdtree represents the Tree of Life (manifest) that wasn't shattered. Mariak (woman) shatters the Elden Ring aka the Tree of Life, forcing Tzim Tzum. The idea is that unlike in Kabbalah, manifestations of God are not innately perfect no matter what, and you can either shatter and rectify unto infinity or take up a more 'dynamic' approach (with the Moon, representing a more Hellenistic approach rather than Jewish) to the nature of the unmanifest absolute/divinity/"YHWH/Ein Sof", or an even more immediate intrinsic one as Chaos. But Elden Ring is very obviously anti Kabbalah in relation to truth as it denies an absolute, otherwise you wouldn't have multiple Elden Lord endings.tl;dr Marika is saving the Lands Between from Jews.
>>734913426I'm just trying to link the fire
>>734913350Actually, the World card is the outcome of the Magus card. The realization of the ritual. It is the magnum opus. The genius changes the world. Shifts paradigms. Einstein is the Magus, e=mc2 is the World. It always goes back to men. Ironic how men made the World. Eh? It’s almost just like real life. A world run by women wouldn’t get very far.
>>734913426The Frenzied Flame is regressing the metaphysics to Dark Souls level (only basic contrasts). Its the 'back to basics' approach. Elden Rings metaphysics are clearly an evolution of Bloodbornes and Dark SoulsFun fact: Dark Souls 3 plot was originally about fighting off the Lords of Dark in a decaying ending world, but Miyazaki had a last second change of heart and 'linked the flame IRL' which swapped Dark Souls 3s plots to be about the Lords of Cinder, completely removing the serpents from the story of DaS3 and moving Sullyhvan (previously the final boss) to mid boss tier. Very kino.
>>734913401> circles are neutral. Neither until intention is cast to them.I’d argue that making a circle of salt and iron powder is an offensive intent. It’s just the expected “go away” route.
>>734913438Sure, whatever but this is fiction we are talking about; in fiction its commonly seen as a "women just have a natural adaptability due to their emotionally charged nature to harvest their willpower into magic more spontaneously." That's how women tend to be powerful spellcasters in fiction. Difference between Sorceress and Wizard. (age, education and maturity.) Even D&D understood this trope in its Vancian system early on.
>>734913539kill the elden beast become elden lord
>>734913401Swords are of authority because they’re phallic just like wands and staves and rods and sceptres and tall crowns and tall priestly hats. If it’s tall and mighty it is phallic and as such authoritive. Men are the authoritive sex.
>>734913651Nothing wrong with regression if things are moving in a bad direction.
>>734913706> in fiction its commonly seen as a "women just have a natural adaptability due to their emotionally charged nature to harvest their willpower into magic more spontaneously.”No it’s not. Are you some sort of feminist Wiccan? Women are emotionally unstable compared to men. Once a month they go crazy.
The frenzied flame is just a cult that wants physics to go back into its Big Crunch form before the Big Bang. Melt.
>>734913824Men are far more unstable than women. Crime rates and mass murder rates demonstrate that clearly. Women are the emotionally stable and mature sex.
>>734913651I don't get it. I thought the Elden Ring was supposed to be the Metaphysical laws encoded, like the runes of Glorantha.
>>734912056Since when has the moon represented darkness?
where does a circle begin?
>>734913949BAAHAHAHAHAHA no
>>734913597>Actually, the World card is the outcome of the Magus cardNah, that's not true. The actual esoteric reasoning is more simple>'supernatural' and 'Divine' were part of intrinsic vocabulary of being before, there was no 'magic' between mundane and supramundane>Magic is part of Zoroastrianism which believes in duality of Good and Evil, Magi are Zoroastrian preachers who believe in Astrology, Soothsaying etc.>Christianity happens, whips everyone away under a single category (Gods being denigrated to being called spirits and being considered all evil)>Magic gets associated with anything not Christian when in reality proto-Europeans never divided the world as such (later it was misunderstood that 'tantric' was the far East equivalent of magic)>Rationalism, nature of proof and being, mind matter dualism and materialist philosophy, demonology, nature of magic etc all muddle the poolSo what's Tarots meaning of Magician? The desire to bridge the illusory nature of magic, which is what the term originally meant to the Hellenists and inverting it into a stepping stone towards the 'Ezikelian' view of the Chariot of God, as to make nature Divine. A much more extreme 'story' of the Philosophers stone. Google "Hayyot" and Ophanim and compare them to the World Tarot.Its why the Magician immediately Follows the 'Fool'. The irony is obvious when viewed from both a Christian and uninitiated view.But the ultimate goal is removing the "Christian" and Zoroastrian Origin to move towards 'intrinsic Divine being', while also transcending rationalism, skepticism and other stuff. Can mention even deeper reasoning if you're interested.
>>734913824And that's why they harness their crazy-powers related to the other-world anon; have you stepped outside of your comfort zone a bit and looked at fiction that games like Dark Souls (mostly western D&D related.) Where do you think the whole "female sorcerers" and "warrior males" come from? Pulp fantasy. Sehir/Magic of any kind originating not from nature itself/gods or "witchcraft" is mainly a feminine thing or pursuit; not suitable. In TRADITIONAL european/arabic/slavic traditions.
>>734913967Its dark side represents darkness. It’s full side represents light.>>734913989He’s not wrong. The world card is an outcome card.
>>734913967Ever since it was the largest astral entity in our night sky
>>734913960The Elden Ring is basically the metaphysical "Torah" or covenant with humanityThe Sefirot in Jew Kabbalah is the "Emanation of a Perfect God no one can comprehend" not even the Sefirot, so it tries to comprehend itself, breaks and gets better. Do note the Sefirot is also "everything" manifest.What Elden Ring implies is basically: The Sefirot (a certain version of the Tree of Life) "breaks" but: should the iteration be done relative to the Orthodoxy of its implications (which the Jews would say yes to) or should it be 'subverted' (hypothetically wiping out this paradox: The knowledge of Sefirot is also a Sefirot itself that could wipe itself out as well, thusly contradicting the idea of its very basis for knowledge of perfection).Its an anti dogma message.
>>734913983How many women get mad over a break up and murder their former boyfriends or husbands vs men killing their girlfriends or wives? If you just pick up a kitchen knife, strength isn't a factor.
>>734909751Every day until you like it
>>734913989The Greeks interpreted the Zoroastrian Magi as magicians and sorcerers. They, the magi, were just fire tenders and learned astrologer priests. This is why the field of higher learning was lumped into the realm of magic, not solely superstition. The word Magi comes from an even older word meaning “to be able” or “to have power” which coincides with any encounter of “how did you do that???”. That’s all magic is. Exposure logic. “I know something you don’t know” easily falls along with “I can do something you can’t do”. The Magus card just represents mastery and the ideal. There’s a lot of overlap with the greater arcana.
>>734914056He's sort of wrong, as what I'm saying is that the world isn't merely an 'outcome card' rather it represents the full complete journey of 'everything summed up in being into a perfect culmination' which was used to implicate the individual becoming/becoming greater than the Biblical GodIts like the difference between a "Wound" and "Destined Death" in Elden Ring
>>734914161women can't even run, imagine using a knife
>>734914132Can you prove this?
>>734914012> Where do you think the whole "female sorcerers" and "warrior males" come from? Pulp fantasy.Yeah. As a form of balance. Women are weak. They need something to bridge that gap. You see this in some video games and tabletop games as well. > Sehir/Magic of any kind originating not from nature itself/godsSeidr comes from shamanistic practices which is why it was seen as submissive and feminine. Allowing yourself to be taken over by the Norns. Odin was still the greatest wizard in Norse myth, even surpassing Freyja (she only mastered Seidr, while Odin mastered more and sacrificed himself for supreme wisdom).
>>734914012>Sehir?>>734914012>Sehir/Magic of any kind originating not from nature itself/gods or "witchcraft" is mainly a feminine thing or pursuit; not suitable. In TRADITIONAL European/arabic/slavic traditions.Its the opposite: The 'extrinsic' magic is associated with masculinity and the 'intrinsic' is associated with femininity, while the truly integrated 'Divine and beyond touch' is the union. The reason is generally impregnation: You can shoot your come out into the world, but a woman cant shoot her womb out, its considered anchored to being, and the continuity of life is associated with women as women's blood continues across generations etc.The "wife, daughter, mother" etc archetypes in mythology weren't housekeeping archetypes, and the ones involved in movement like Hecate indicated the transmutation of the implied assumed 'nature' and intrinsic-ness (see: Eleusynian Mysteries).
>>734914328Yeah, so we agree that men are the more emotionally unstable sex.
>>734914223> rather it represents the full complete journey of 'everything summed up in being into a perfect culmination' which was used to implicate the individual becoming/becoming greater than the Biblical GodThat… sounds like an outcome. Really, it seems like you’re just arguing for the sake of arguing because you’re a feminist in mindset and can’t handle the reality that men are the more significant sex, even in systems where sexual unity is a thing. Even in Zoroastrianism you had periods where women were deemed as the spiritually inferior or more prone to chaos, and as such less capable, which is ironic when the supreme embodiment of chaos is a dude (who sucked himself off to bring all the evils into the world), not a woman.
>>734914207>The Greeks interpreted the Zoroastrian Magi as magicians and sorcerers. They, the magi, were just fire tenders and learned astrologer priests. This is why the field of higher learning was lumped into the realm of magic, not solely superstition.Nope, they saw them as inferior because they couldn't debate and instead soothtold, same as Christians do nowadays, as Christianity is a 'sequel' to Zoroastrianism as much as it is to Judaism.>The word Magi comes from an even older word meaning “to be able” or “to have power” which coincides with any encounter of “how did you do that???”. That’s all magic is. Exposure logic. “I know something you don’t know” easily falls along with “I can do something you can’t do”. In Persian it comes from 'to have power over' but the GREEKS used it as meaning fraud. Bear in minds, the Egyptians are believed to by many as to have had a powerful priestly cast that can invoke Divine Power, but they werent called Magi. Because all power and nature and divinity was considered 'Godly' and part of the same ecosystem unified before Christianity and Zoroastrianism spread the idea of 'fighting Evil' which, people dont know, in Judaism the idea is associated with the idea of fighting Non-Jews
>>734914408> The 'extrinsic' magic is associated with masculinity and the 'intrinsic' is associated with femininityThis. Men saw the external world as outweighing the internal self. There’s so much more outside of yourself. The self COMES from the world. This is also why western alchemy beat eastern alchemy. Western alchemists looked to the world a lot more. Eastern alchemists did too, but they kept focusing on inner alchemy to the point where they thought they could use kung fu to deflect bullets. Laughable. Westerners believed in inner alchemy too, just not to such a silly level.
>>734914408Stop lying, you were considered a bitch-like man if you did too much with magic in Nordic/Germanic paganism. Man's ought to work with their hands and get them dirty for pay. That's how it is. Simple facts of the matter. This applied in much of the world in Pagan communities where sorcery (the witchcraft part) was seen with superstition and where they'd rather rely on good omens and gods to provide (through sacrifice/etc) rather than sorcerers or witches. This is Robert E. Howard's worldview as well and why he was so fascinated with the wild-west mentality and involving many various trope-changed masculine men always in pursuit of their physical strength against evil sorcerers etc.
>>734914441I never said that. They don't do these things due to incompetence, not emotional stability
>>734914629> Nope, they saw them as inferior because they couldn't debate and instead soothtoldWrong. The Greeks simultaneously feared and revered the Persians. Much learning was derived from the Chaldeans. Pythagoras educated himself with the Magi/Persians. Not sure why you’re lying about so much.
>>734914725It doesn't take competence to stab someone to death. Children have literally done it. It doesn't happen more, because women are the more emotionally stable sex.
>>734914629> In Persian it comes from 'to have power over' but the GREEKS used it as meaning fraudNope. You’ve got it backwards. Even Tolkien talked about this, in his distinguishing of perception. Magia is legit magic. Goeteia is deception and superstition. The lattwr got replaced by the former.
>>734914207>The Greeks interpreted the Zoroastrian MagiWhich greeks are you talking about? Does it include that one who said that it is meet that hellenes should rule barbarians or the philosopher who said that persians are slavish by nature?
>>734914350yesThe implications of tohu and tiqqun underlie the origin of free will and the evil realm of the qlippoth caused by the "Shattering of the Vessels" (Hebrew: שְבִירַת הַכֵּלִים, romanized: Šəḇīraṯ hakkēlīm), the processes of spiritual and physical exile and redemption, the meaning of the 613 commandments, and the messianic rectification of existence.Tikkun also means the esoteric sifting or clarification (בירור) of concealed divine sparks (ניצוצות) exiled in physical creation. This new paradigm in Kabbalah replaced the previous linear description of descent by Moses ben Jacob Cordovero with a dynamic process of spiritual enclothement, where higher souls invest inwardly in lower "vessels". Thats why the Elden Ring is glassy, and breaks like glassTHE ELDEN RINGOHHH ELDEN RINGSHATTERED BY SOMEONEOR SOMETHING>>734914704>Nordic/Germanic paganism.idc Im talking from a Hellenist/Roman perspective, German polytheism never produced meaningful philosophy. The Greeks and Romans did, and they did not separate Divinity from Philosophy, not even Socrates did
>>734914629— Pervasive throughout the Eastern Mediterranean and West Asia until late antiquity and beyond, mágos (μάγος) was influenced by (and eventually displaced) Greek goēs (γόης), the older word for a practitioner of magic, with a meaning expanded to include astronomy, astrology, alchemy, and other forms of esoteric knowledge. This association was in turn the product of the Hellenistic fascination for Pseudo-Zoroaster, who was perceived by the Greeks to be the Chaldean founder of the Magi and inventor of both astrology and magic, a meaning that still survives in the modern-day words "magic" and "magician".Seems to me like the Greeks held a big appreciation for the Persian Magi. Not sure why you’re being such a dick, guy.
>>734914704> you were considered a bitch-like man if you did too much with magic in Nordic/Germanic paganismDidn’t stop Odin, the original min-maxer, from learning magic better than anyone else, even the women.
>>734914797It does. If a total idiot tries running at someone with a knife they will put them to sleep with just one punchA 14 yo boy is already stronger than an adult woman
>>734914823>Even Tolkien talked about this, in his distinguishing of perception. Magia is legit magic. Goeteia is deception and superstition. The lattwr got replaced by the formerNot really true. I'll prove it by history>Jews have this belief that their God is better, and other's Gods shouldn't be worshipped: BUT they can be hired.This is where the Star of David comes from, as well as the transformation of the word Daimonia to mean Demon. The Jews have a word for those: Shedim or Mazzikin or rarely AcherimGoetia is the same thing, but for Christians. All the Goetia are just Polytheistic Gods degraded to be safe for Christians.Ultimately Tolkein having this opinion coincides with him being Christian, as Christianity is Judaism + Dualism (Good v Evil, but Good and Evil are ill defined).
>>734914704> This applied in much of the world in Pagan communities where sorcery (the witchcraft part) was seen with superstition and where they'd rather rely on good omens and gods to provide (through sacrifice/etc) rather than sorcerers or witches1. Sorcery and religion are indistinguishable; two sides of the same coin; entirely decided by subjective perception; some religions claimed their shit was better while others weren’t pretentious enough to pretend it wasn’t magic 2. Sorcerers in Howard’s works are mostly male and priestly
>>734914974Children younger than 14 have stabbed people to death. Most men that stab their wives to death don't run screaming at them from across the street. You know that. You invented a 'get out of jail free' card that was obviously ridiculous.
>>734915026> Not really true. I'll prove it by historyYou can’t prove it using history, since I already proved it using history. It’s how their language changed over time. See >>734914894Tolkien and Lewis both used Magia and Goeteia in their essays/letters.
>>734914840Germanic/Nordic/Slavic/Celtic/Arabic/Etc paganism introduced enough to basically just say; here's the bullshit without the fancy philosophizing over things. Greeks were too busy fucking little boys to stop talking out of their asses. The other ones favored pragmatism and useful information.>>734914947Yeah because he was power-hungry and sacrificed whatever he could and he wasn't just a "man" he was an Aesir therefore "allowed things regular men weren't." By default.
>>734915026Goeteia is a pejorative in general. It’s the lower, “lesser” variant of high ritual magic; its higher or “greater” counterpart being Theurgia. They were essentially the same art, with differing goals. One was more materialistic and selfish while the other was about self betterment and uniting with non-material echelons.
>>734915038True because "evil sorcerer" = male. He used "Sorceress" for female ones. There were plenty of those in Conan and Solomon Kane. Sorcery = Evil; Priests? Depends on god and belief. = How shit rolled.
>>734914840Thats why the Elden Ring is glassy, and breaks like glassCan you prove that the reason the Elden Ring shatters is because it is a direct reference to the Tikkun or whatever?>The Greeks and Romans did, and they did not separate Divinity from Philosophy, not even Socrates didThis assumes that Plato is a representative of all greeks and romans too, which is like saying "since Bertrand Russel cheated on his wife, we can infer that british culture itself regarded adultery as permissable"
>>734913426hello brotherfoids are dumb lol. pipe down melina I'm gonna make you a hero
>>734914894>>734915121>alchemyAlchemy started in Egypt, went on to Greece and spread faintly in Arabic areas and didn't spread to Persia up until the Muslim era, and was rediscovered in Europe after Byzantium fell and Greek writing accidentally leaked and spread (and as Arabs started to learn to better translate Greek).>Greek goēs (γόης), Ahh I remember this one, this isnt true. During pre Christian Hellenism, Goes just meant 'yeller' or someone who shouts curses at people and had no supernatural connotations until post Christian times. I believe thats why GOTHS (GOETHES) were called GOTHS as they were loud BarbariansTHE ACTUAL GREEK SUPERNATURAL PRACTITIONER WAS...................>a woman>called a poisoner>that gave you psychedelic drugs and could do actual stuff like turn men to Pigs (aka Circe)Your source is interpretive fiction based on other interpretive fiction, Ive studied it before.Look it up by checking historical etymologyAnyway no, Magi (like the 3 Magi in Christianity) were never meant to come off as supernaturally powerful, just Zoroastrian priests
>>734915227The most powerful sorcerer in Conan was a stereotypically bearded wizard brought back from the dead. Xal’Totun.
>>734915276> Ahh I remember this one, this isnt trueI’m Greek. It is absolutely true. Please stop pretending that you know shit. The word has been prevalent all throughout the world of the occult. It’s even associated with Solomon, fuck.
Miquella should have won
>>734915224Nope, thats historical pseudofiction>>734915153>Germanic/Nordic/Slavic/Celtic/Arabic/Etc paganism introduced enough to basically just say; here's the bullshit without the fancy philosophizing over thingsI can tell you thats not true, even the way we speak nowadays, the logic, and even nature of arguing, originates from Greece and Rome in a way it was historically never present in proto-Germany (Holy Roman Empire etc) or any Balkan Region etc
mega yawn
>>734915276> Anyway no, Magi (like the 3 Magi in Christianity) were never meant to come off as supernaturally powerful, just Zoroastrian priestsYou’re a daft, dishonest, disingenuous twat. Knowledge is powerful. The word for the Magi comes from “to have power”, and similar expressions. The Greeks did see them as having mystique and otherworldly insights. Knowledge.
>>734915249>Can you prove that the reason the Elden Ring shatters is because it is a direct reference to the Tikkun or whatever?Yes because you mend the Shattering. Shattered things, like glass, normally dont mend. You dont tape your Glass Window when it breaks. Sefirot on the other hand are often depicted as glassy in their nature and their shattering is akin to glass' shattering into many chaotic fragments. And Sefirot, like glass, is described as having a lot of varied interaction with refracting light.
>>734915340>>I’m Greek. It is absolutely true. Please stop pretending that you know shit.Nope, I had this confirmed by Greeks too. Poisoner (Pharmakea) was the "Witch/Sorcerress" of Greece, Goethe was just a loud yelling old man who would sling insults and curses at people
>>734915372> Nope, thats historical pseudofictionNope. There were entire grimoires written about Goeteia, its association with demons and sorcery and Solomon. It doesn’t matter if it was bastardized. That was already the assumption. It was already the language. The word absolutely comes from a pejorative for magic and witchcraft and superstition.Not sure why you’re lying. You’re like the sun realm guy who keeps repeating blatantly wrong lore. Except you’re doing it with real history. You’re some sort of misinformation bot or something.
>>734908753Lore expert here to give a minor correction.Velstadt defeated RaimeRaime was effectively killed by NadaliaFume Knight is like Lich King in that Raime = Arthas, Nadalia = Nerzhul. The primary thing in control (unlike WoW) is Nadalia however. Obviously some Raime is still there, deep down.Anyway, Ranni is a shit mary sue who can't be killed because she's one of the dev's waifu
>>734915438Ok. Can you prove that the Elden Ring is a direct analogue to the Sefirot or whatever?
>>734915494My mother was the one who told me about pharmakeia. Goeteia is still a word for magic. Sorry. You’re an idiot and you are talking to the wrong (MODERN) day Greeks. Not the ones of the past. Sorcery was absolutely associated with poison and potion making and demon summoning.Deal with it. There are people who know more about this than you do. Sorry. Like, actual linguists who lectured classes over this word.
>>734909165Gideon wasn't necessarily intelligent, he just knew how to smartly manage people. Everything he knows in his fight with you is shit (You) taught him or told him. Everything else he knows in general is because of his spy network.
>>734915372>Doesn't know, hasn't visited, has no contact with any Nordic/Germanic individual that's not Jewmaxxed.Havamal (with or without religiousity) is literally how nordics and germanic people operate under on general basis on what's "good" and what's "bad." Its human nature 101.
>>734913267who killed women in placed them in jars mmmm yeah
>>734915396>The word for the Magi comes from “to have power”, and similar expressionsHistorically it was never used like this until after the fall of Byzantium/Eastern Rome.>The Greeks did see them as having mystique and otherworldly insights. Knowledge.Nope: Many ancient Greek writers viewed magi, or practitioners of magic, as charlatans or frauds. This skepticism was reflected in their literature, where magicians were often depicted as manipulative figures lacking genuine power, contrasting with the more respected roles of priests and religious figures.>>734915496>its association with demons and sorcery and SolomonI literally explain this here>>734915026It just meant "foreign God". Its just Jewish manipulation tactics, Goetia is the Christian safe version of Polytheistic Denigrating practices.
>>734914056>Its dark side represents darknessAre you drunk? People were not even aware the moon had a dark side until not long ago, what are you talking about?>>734914074Yes and it was considered to be a source of light. Proving yourself wrong.
>>734915616That is what they were allotted in life.
>>734915276> Alchemy started in Egypt, went on to Greece and spread faintly in Arabic areas and didn't spread to Persia up until the Muslim eraTechnically wrong. Alchemy is just chemistry and even cavemen could in theory tap into it. The Persians before their takeover by Muslims had their college of Gundishapur. They did dabble in chemistry and astronomy and other natural subjects. Not sure why you assume they wouldn’t have done so. They also travelled to Asia. Alchemy/chemistry arose at various points in the world independently. Humans came to shockingly similar conclusions about the world. Greeks and Chinese both had concepts for Chi.
>>734915616Not my problem
>>734915364true
>>734915580>Goeteia is still a word for magictype of magical practice, 1560s, via Medieval Latin goetia or directly from Greek goēteia, from goēs, goētos "sorcerer, enchanter; charlatan," which is probably connected to goaō "to groan, weep."Notice one thing>1560sIts a modern termThe connection to goaō "to groan, weep" is suggested by 10c. in Suda, a sort of early encyclopedia written in Byzantine Greek, via the notion of contact with spirits of the dead, "whence [the word] is derived from the wailing [go/oi] and lamentations which are made at burials." Beekes is willing to entertain this connection but implies some uncertainty. Compare: woo woo.>demon summoningDaimonia arent "Demons" in the Christian sense, Daimonia are lesser spirits while Demons is a word for non-Christian God. Dont believe everything a mom says.
>>734915276> THE ACTUAL GREEK SUPERNATURAL PRACTITIONER WASNot a woman. It was anyone claimed to be able to summon demons or prepare poisons. Pharmakeia wasn’t exclusive to any gender lol. The idea that poison was black magic is seen all over the world. In China and even in France just some two centuries ago. “She died from poison - must be witchery, hoh hoh hoh”
>>734915276> Your source is interpretive fiction based on other interpretive fiction, Ive studied it before.You sadly haven’t. Since this is basic information. Poison has always been associated with magic. You’ve been fed dog shit liberal tier education.
>>734906985because elden ring is for basedboys and dark souls is for men.
>>734915716>Alchemy is just chemistryGenealogically Alchemy is a very specific line of thinking that we historically know followed a very specific path of movement. We know because its the most studied field of writing to interest Europeans for a time, and finding 'the most legit' Alchemy motivated the Evolution of History itself. Persia did not have Alchemy.
>>734915803>The idea that poison was black magic is seen all over the world.Poison wasnt black magic, it was holy and used in religious rituals like the Eleusynian Mysteries which were incredibly mainstream. What you're describing didnt happen in Greece.
>>734915026Stop speaking on things you don't know about; Christianity is not Judaism and can't ever be mixed together with Judaist ideologies: They are two completely separate branches with same origin-point of Hebrew religion and founding figures. (The prophets of the old testament) Christianity separates itself from the Old by distancing it from living under the Law (which you are under until you convert in theological lens) to operating under Faith in God and individual reason and will through scripture and repentance from things God commanded to and doing good deeds. This is clear to anyone; who honestly read the New Testament and not relying on Jewish folklore institutions to tell otherwise; Jesus turned over the tables of the moneychangers who were Jews and was against corruption of religion as a business front for usurious Jewry as it corrupted the religion part and invited thievery into the picture. Jews were fine with it. Judaims proper; current: Is bablyonian mystery traditions just reframed and curated by Jewish scholars and their beliefs on how to fix them under their previous commandments and oral traditions to make it seem like they are tricking God into accepting their "law-breaking" of the commandments. (If they can come to a consensus; they are allowed to break the law God has set them rather than word of God being Eternal.)
>>734906985>>734907118If you'll consult picrel, which I JUST made to explain things like this, you'll see that the study of magic is a dead end, wisdom-wise, though it has practical use. The Nox were punished directly by the greater will for daring to approach it directly through their studies and practices, and count Ymir, who knew more than Ranni, still ended up nowhere. Ranni's ending is essentially just cutting her losses and agreeing to operate inside the existing system. The more fundamental sorceries are inherently inorganic and possessing of less life energy than the more ordinarily encountered ones-the original practitioners of crystal and gravity sorceries have crystal skin (crystallians) and stone (alabaster/onyx lords). That's why Lusat and Azur become comatose stoneoids. You get lured into sorcery by glintstone, which has residual life, then you end up nowhere. Glintstone fireflies can no longer attract mates, but golden fireflies are alluring. Tells you all you need to know. You'll never achieve gnosis studying rocks.
>>734915764>Daimonia are lesser spiritsNta. Greeks seemed to think of them almost as guardian angels. Diotima also says that they are mediators between the human and the divine.
>>734915080>Most men that stab their wives to death don't run screaming at them from across the streetBecause they have the basic knowledge to use a knife...
>>734915849>Poison has always been associated with magic??? Poison and its supernatural application and use in talking to Gods or Rituals or Rites predates Magi and Zoroastrianism by millennia>>734915957>Christianity is not Judaismlol lmao even, everything Christian is
>>734915638> Historically it was never used like this until after the fall of Byzantium/Eastern Rome.You’re confusing yourself. Magh/Megh is older than Rome. This is how I know you are less educated than you think you are, lol.> Nope Yup. See >>734914894> Many ancient Greek writers viewed magi, or practitioners of magic, as charlatans or frauds.Weren’t the majority. One of the Plinys assumed all sorcery was a lie, “but you should still entertain it, just in case around is around to reinforce it.”. A very early indication of aliens pranking people. The Greeks weren’t stupid, and thought of the IMPLICATIONS of such things actually working. There’s no natural basis for sorcery. It’s obviously being enforced by something unseen. Demons are just tricksters and pranksters like aliens.
>>734915965Miyazaki, probably owing to Berzerk and buddhism, seems to be very interested in tragedies that are ultimately self-inflicted
>>734916015>NOO YOUR THING IS JUDAISM! IT CAN'T BE SEPARATE.Yep and to the jew-list you go. Only Jews make that claim, so easy to spot. No honesty as expected. How's your palestinian rape of kids going Jew?
>>734915638You didn’t actually explain anything. Magic is Perception, period, and Goeteia was seen as a pejorative for most of its history. Even in Ancient Greece. That they treated it as superstition and fraudery doesn’t change that. Not really. Magic has always been fraudulent. It’s relative not literal. It can’t even exist in fiction, technically.
>>734915901> Genealogically Alchemy is a very specific line of thinking that we historically know followed a very specific path of movementNot really. It’s actually very simple. All the spiritual woo woo was just inevitable icing on top of it. “If we can transmute the materials of the world, why not the soul and the body? The spirit?”. The idea of inner perfection and creating gold and other legendary substances isn’t unique to any region of the world, lol.
>>734916056>older than RomeMagi was used completely differently in Rome up until Christianity, then its meaning changed several timesIts why some Protestan Churches ban "Magic", because its official translation of the 3 Magi is actually 3 Wise Men.>>734916156>Magic is Perception, periodIts not, Divinity was considered intrinsic to nature, and Mans goal was to climb the 'Ladder of Nature to Divinity and Immortality' so to speak.>Goeteia was seen as a pejorative for most of its history. Even in Ancient Greece. No, only in Christianity. No Hellen ever did "Goetia Magic" or whatever, check your dates. Hellenists didnt need to separate Good from Evil "Gods" because their Gods were all considered part of Nature in weird ways. There wasnt even a Greek Loki.
>>734915951> Poison wasnt black magicWords like Pharmakeia and Veneficium and Gu and Kodoku say otherwise.You’re not very learned on this matter. Poison has been a staple of magic for all of history, lmao. Asians believed they could prepare death by forcing bugs to eat each other and then mashing them into poison.
>>734916132>didnt check Jesus' early life sectionOriginal Christianity didnt even let non Jews into itself, only a later offshoot started doing it because it gave them a bigger number of people lmao.
>>734915951> What you're describing didnt happen in Greece.Poison makers didn’t exist in Greece? You should probably fucking kill yourself for being so stupid LMAO. Loving how everyone is shitting on you right now.
>>734916251>Hellenists didnt need to separate Good from Evil "Gods"And to add to that, philosophers like Plato insisted that the gods were all good, eventually leading to the idea of evil as a privation.
>>734916303>>Words like PharmakeiaWas used in a holy and divine sense, a Pharmakeia wasn't an evil Witch it was someone who was 'friendly' to the Religion. >>734916351>>Poison makers didn’t exist in Greece?Associations with murdered werent associated with supernatural and certainly not an 'evil supernatural' variant as it didnt exist.
>>734916015> ??? Poison and its supernatural application and use in talking to Gods or Rituals or Rites predates Magi and Zoroastrianism by millenniaThat’s literally what he said. Are you ESL. Poison and potion making have always been associated with magic. Your
>>734916303Its a Jew if he's spinning this much bullshit anon; disengage. Stop entertaining a Jew; most people even pagans knew hexing, poisoning and necromancy for personal pursuits was "black magic" (things without light; because of their topics involving in categorically evil shit; harming others for gain through communing with spirits or perverting the course of nature.)
>>734916240Historically it was the opposite, all study of matter came after religious or spiritual reasons.>>734916380>idea of evil It wasnt evil, its translated as Evil now because of Christianity, but it wasnt the word "Evil". Evil is a Zoroastrian term that seeped into Europe through Christianity. China, Japan, India etc dont have the word "evil".
>>734916251Magh/Megh predates Magi. It wasn’t used in Rome lol. You’re hyperventilating and not reading.
>>734916351>Poison makers didn’t exist in Greece?Nta, they did exist. After all, Socrates died by imbibing poison, but it was not considered, at least in his time, to be magic. It actually fell under the art of medicine, and plato is known for his idea that arts implicitly contain their opposites (though I am probably wording this incorrectly. I am talking about the idea that a doctor, in knowing what is good for the body, must also know what is bad for it).
>>734907118The Moons are divine entities created from the merge of several spirits of the Eternal CitiesThey are held by women because they are maidens able to hold runic power akin to Marika and the Elden Ring
>>734916251> It’s not, Divinity was considered intrinsic to nature, and Mans goal was to climb the 'Ladder of Nature to Divinity and Immortality' so to speak.It is. What is magic is not going to be magic to another. What is a god is not going to be a god to another. There’s always going to be some hypothetical “it’s not magic” angle to it. It’s not literal. It’s very much relative. Tolkien’s elves don’t see themselves as magical. Only humans do. God and his angels don’t see their miracles as truly miraculous. Only humans do. Magic is just brain chemistry.
>>734916414>magicRead the convo. Greeks didnt believe in Magic as the Supernatural because Magic, as the term, is a peculiar and specific Zoroastrian idea. Its not an idea Greeks had, Nature was simply Divine and could be more and more powerful. But they didnt have a word or idea for magic.>>734916485Thats just a word for 'power over', not the idea of Zoroastrian Magi or post-Christian Magic. Thats the point of this discussion, about Ranni, Genders, Alchemy and the Supernatural.
>>734916117I agree. There is a common theme in Souls games that 'seeing too much' is bad for you, but there is no compulsion to seek out these sights. I think Miquella is the exception, as you can see on the chart, notably because he says he is ready to embrace the whole of it. The light of Miquella is turning back towards Earth. Everything else is a form of escapism that leads to harm, either by looking outwards or inwards excessively.I get the feeling he is not fond of Buddhism, compare picrel to the centre of the frenzied flame.
>>734916524Pharmakia are psychedelics or mind altering substances in scientific terms. In today's terms; Weed and shrooms.
>>734916464>It wasnt evil, its translated as Evil now because of Christianity, but it wasnt the word "Evil".Kakon means wrongdoing, baseness, morally wrong. In a word, evil.
>>734916564>It is. What is magic is not going to be magic to another. What is a god is not going to be a god to another. There’s always going to be some hypothetical “it’s not magic” angle to it.Thats literally not what the case was historically and in fact was very much the opposite, what you're describing only occurred in fantasy fiction.>>734916606In Bloooooooodborne, the path to becoming a Great One involves Seeing Too Much, so clearly it implies that its a 'great filter'.
>>734916251> No, only in ChristianityNope. Greeks weren’t stupid and used the word as a negative. Beep boop beep. AI is more educated than you. — Yes, in ancient Greece, the term goeteia (γοητεία, often anglicized as goety) was a pejorative term used to describe a form of "low" magic or witchcraft, typically associated with deception, charlatanism, and antisocial behavior. — It was distinct from theurgy (theourgia), which was regarded as "high" or divine magic. Origins and Meaning:— Etymology: The word is derived from goēs (γόης), which originally referred to a wailer or a sorcerer who used lament-like incantations and necromantic spells to evoke spirits, with the root goaō meaning to "groan" or "bewail".— Social Context: In the classical period (5th century BCE onwards), a goēs was considered a fringe practitioner, often an itinerant, low-class performer of curses, love spells, and magic, as opposed to the respectable, public religious rituals sanctioned by the polis.— As an Insult: Being accused of practicing goeteia was essentially a form of insult, suggesting the person was a fraudster, a charlatan, or someone creating dangerous, illicit "un-Greek" magic.
>>734909491I went through the War-Dead Catacombs the other day. Redmane Knights are more dangerous than Cleanrot Knights.
>>734916569Magic as a psychological phenomenon isn’t exclusive to the word magic. Greeks absolutely had mysteries. Magic is legit just that feeling a biologist feels when they confront a new form of deep sea life.Are you really this fucking daft?
>>734916629A Jew trying to justify mis-reading of Evil. These people are schizos lol. They won't denounce Talmud.
>>734913972The spot where you first start drawing it
>>734916629We're talking about Good Evil dualism as in GABRIEL VS SATAN or AHURA MAZDA VS AHRIMAN, not 'wrongdoing' as in 'dont eat food thats been on the floor too long'For example, before Neoplatonism and Zoroastrian influences, it was preposterous to suggest 'the creator' (Demiurge) as evil as per Platos writings, but as the idea of intrinsic Dualism to the universe which causes a conflict (AKA Evil) appears which divides the world in an objective way, then the idea became popular. This idea of Evil had 'wrongdoing' as part of itself, not the other way aroundAnd of course 'normative' use eventually equated the two.
>>734916524> After all, Socrates died by imbibing poison, but it was not considered, at least in his time, to be magicThat’s because it was a well known poison you fucktard. It wasn’t some out of the ordinary substance that some cutting edge chemist (for the time) concocted. The Greeks would probably be horrified if someone showed them the effects of, say, devil’s breath.
>>734910641No she didn't, retard
>>734916783>Greeks absolutely had mysteries. Magic is legit just that feeling a biologist feels when they confront a new form of deep sea life.Yes, I study those. Greek Mysteries absolutely mogged Zoroastrian Magic and were vastly different from it. That was the point of my posts. The word Magic tries to claim ownership of Mysteries when its just a garbled word for Zoroastrian religiousness that has no meaning or use to anyone not a Zoroastrian.Thank you for listening.
>>734916569> Thats just a word for 'power over', not the idea of Zoroastrian Magi or post-Christian MagicNo. It’s entirely the logic for magic. The sagely learned man who can do things you cannot. That’s a wizard. The word wizard isn’t needed. The word magic isn’t needed. > Thats the point of this discussion, about Ranni, Genders, Alchemy and the Supernatural.Nope you’re conflating it.
>>734916464> Historically it was the opposite, all study of matter came after religious or spiritual reasons.Yes. Alchemy isn’t really unique for that reason. It’s just more nature shaven down over time. Alchemy is literally just a mid way point.
>>734916606>There is a common theme in Souls games that 'seeing too much' is bad for youI wouldn't go that far. After all, buddhism stresses the importance of witnessing arising and falling, being aware of dukkha, as insight. I don't get the feeling that he holds buddhism in low regard. It is very influential in Berzerk, as opposed to what other westerners who try to read gnosticism into it, which it does not have.I even think he is very sympathetic to the Frenzied Flame. It is largely a response to suffering and fuel for the oppressed.The unalome is also hindu and it represents the path to enlightenment, and the FF is clearly a strange form of enlightenment that is more frenzied that tranquil.
>>734916974>>Yes. Alchemy isn’t really unique for that reason. It’s just more nature shaven down over time. Alchemy is literally just a mid way point.Thats also not historically accurate. Very few places had people get involved with the topic and under very few different names. Alchemy was mostly a secret until Byzantiums fall which is why it became so popular when Greeks migrated to Italy.
>>734916524Doctors and metallurgists and healers were considered wizards. Magic is one sided. The capital-w wizard won’t see themselves as a wizard. Their bar for magic is higher than their onlookers. >>734916651> Thats literally not what the case was historicallyWrong. You’re not smart. Looking to the stars and accusing them of being the gods is no different from looking to some old man doing something weird and accusing him of being a wizard. Magic and religion are indistinguishable. At their very core. Mystery, wonder, ignorance itself, are the core essences of magic. Ignorance IS a form of art. Religion is a form of Art.
>>734916706??? use a better AI, yours is suffering delusions and lying to you.>>734916919>>No. It’s entirely the logic for magic. The sagely learned man who can do things you cannot. That’s a wizard. The word wizard isn’t needed. The word magic isn’t needed.Anon Magi is just a priest in a Zoroastrian sense, all supernatural is just association with Gods, a Magi is just that but for their Gods, but the idea of Magic as a concept originates from Christians pushing away of Europes polytheistic roots. Greeks just did it much better than Zoroastrians did, whom the Greeks considered emotional manipulators who wanted people to become beggars, preachers and other shit Christians did later as well..
>>734916904> Yes, I study thoseYou clearly don’t LMAO> The word Magic tries to claim ownership of Mysteries when it’s just a garbled word for Zoroastrian religiousness that has no meaning or use to anyone not a Zoroastrian.Words evolve. They absorb meanings. The psychology of seeing something and assuming it’s [insert word for magic, that isn’t necessarily magic, here] something amazing is basest exposure logic. Greek people were absolutely impressed by the knowledge of the Magi.
>>734910673No, stop giving the most cookie cutter ASSumption interpretation to specific dialogue.Marika's rule was doomed because she was a usurper who did not receive the proper divine ascension (rebirth).In order to be ome Goddess, unable as she is to wield actual Light, she tainted it creating Gold and ShadowThe Fingers are broken and Marika, Radagon and Gideon acknowledge that and already dropped the spiral for fundamentalism, in order to themselves learn to manipulate Light without using oracles. Marika's entire plan is overcoming her limitation as false Goddes and Usurper. Fundamentalism is a direct study of the past Orders practices and the act of merging beings into true divinity, something that is omni present in Enir-Ilim architecture but a process which Marika did not follow through until the end of the game, when she and Radagon finally become God
>>734917032> The word Magic tries to claim ownership of Mysteries when its just a garbled word for Zoroastrian religiousness that has no meaning or use to anyone not a Zoroastrian.Nope. Alchemy as a concept existed all the way over in India and China. These aren’t unique concepts. Inner and outer alchemy are very simple ideas.
>>734916806Are you talking about me or the guy saying that the greeks did not believe in any form of evil?>>734916824>We're talking about Good Evil dualismYou mean evil as an active substance beyond the control of God? Then sure, greek philosophers generally did not believe in that. Evil was seen, at least since Socrates as a privation of the good, a lack. That does not mean that Plato had no concept of "evil". Evil as lack is still a name that denotes a phenomenon. This was also what the neoplatonists believed. Wrongdoing means immoral act, injustice.
>>734917131>>Wrong. You’re not smart. Looking to the stars and accusing them of being the gods is no different from looking to some old man doing something weird and accusing him of being a wizard. Magic and religion are indistinguishable.Uhh Greeks invented Philosophy and Natural Philosophy and used that to describe the World and Gods and thought the two the same. But the Greeks had no conception of Magic, only a Divine and Grander world that needed complex discovery. Shit Greeks thought up of "Many Worlds Theories" during Alexanders time.>>734917235>Words evolve. They absorb meanings.Etymology is a field.>Greek people were absolutely impressed by the knowledge of the Magi.??? Nigger Greeks hated Persians because Persians kept trying to fuck with them, and the only time that the two had 'positive' relations is when Alexander stomped Persia into the dirt. This hatred continued on into the Roman period, with Rome also despising Persia.
>>734917162Your AI appears to agree with me. More proof you’re an ESL or just a troll suffering from desperate confirmation bias blurring his eyesight. > Anon Magi is just a priest in a Zoroastrian senseNot the topic. > but the idea of Magic as a concept originates from Christians pushing away of Europes polytheistic rootsExposure logic was invented by the Christians? Do you also think that racism was invented by white people?
>>734917032This is a weird misunderstanding of Alchemy, holy fuck. Even Greek Magical Papyri was popular around the med. countries with all sorts of religious variants (Hebrew, Christian, Real Pagan...) you absolute retard. Alchemy was also popular topic for translations from Arabic to Greek etc but not widespread due to illiteracy in Greece thus only a few were translated to other languages and usually the "best curated" ones got translated that cultivated enough "approved presence" in academia. Not any other reason.
>>734917293>Nope. Alchemy as a concept existed all the way over in India and China. These aren’t unique concepts. Inner and outer alchemy are very simple ideas.Uhh it didnt, its an entirely different field with different origin points. Its just called Alchemy in English due to the assumption that if one wants to accurately describe something from the Far East, they'll use the Native Language instead, ergo the translations have to be 'similar' to known concepts so we can communicate. Daoism is nothing like any Greek Philosophy and vice versa.>>734917302>Evil was seen, at least since Socrates as a privation of the good, a lackIt was not, this was later rolled into evil as respect for Polytheists was only Granted if their words could be used as Gospel. Otherwise their works were burned. Socrates had no conception of anything you see, feel or think of as evil, neither did Plato, because they didn't have a historical precedent for it.
>>734917310> But the Greeks had no conception of Magic, only a Divine and Grander world that needed complex discoveryThat’s magic. You’re ignoring the ever present psychology of magic. Magic is just one of many words that evolved over time to refer to this sensation. They wouldn’t have used the word Magic until it replaced the word Goeteia.
>>734917371>Your AI appears to agree with me????
>>734917310> ??? Nigger Greeks hated Persians because Persians kept trying to fuck with them, and the only time that the two had 'positive' relations is when Alexander stomped Persia into the dirt. This hatred continued on into the Roman period, with Rome also despising Persia.Greek philosophers went and studied with Persians and Chaldeans and Egyptians and even fucking Brahmin in motherfucking India.Stop getting your history from Snyder slop like 300 LMAO.
>>734917372He is legit retarded lol>>734917408You are legit retarded lol; Chinese alchemy is shockingly alike Western alchemy; Lao Tsu has been described as the eastern Hermes
>>734917372>holy fuck. Even Greek Magical Papyri was popular around the med. countries with all sorts of religious variants (Hebrew, Christian, Real Pagan...) you absolute retard. Alchemy was also popular topic for translations from Arabic to Greek etc but not widespread due to illiteracy in Greece thus only a few were translated to other languages and usually the "best curated" ones got translated that cultivated enough "approved presence" in academia. Not any other reason.Uhh youre posting points proving my point then saying they prove yoursMost people couldnt speak Greek or Latin, translating books was hard, and printing more copies was also hard + everything was either in the back of a museum/church/monastery whether as hostage by the Church or because it was too hard to get to.>>734917487>>Greek philosophers went and studied with Persians and Chaldeans and Egyptians and even fucking Brahmin in motherfucking India.Yes I know i also said that. Which has nothing to do with the fact that Greeks interpretation of Magi was the same one you'd give a Christian doomsayer on the street nowadays
>>734917408Daoism and Hermeticism are shockingly alike. Both pursued inner and outer alchemy.
>>734917408>It was notIt clearly was. Have you actually read Plato? In Gorgias, Socrates talks about how wrongdoing harms the soul. In Protagoras, it is described as ignorance of the good. Ignorance, a lack of knowledge. It is not an independent cosmic principle.
>>734917408Many esotericists agree that alchemy isn’t unique to any region. Chemistry just sort of bred this sort of imagination, and Eastern and Western belief systems are both considered eerily similar. Personally, I think they're very compatible. Extremely compatible. I think the Tao fits very nicely with the Hermeticist conception of God. They’re also both monistic. They each illuminate different sides of how to live a good life [in flow with the Tao/in accordance with divine Nous.]Taoism has a much more poetic look at the nature of the Tao and how when it's done right living your life in harmony with the Tao is the easiest thing in the world. It gives you an abstract and expansive look at the Tao which I feel gives a more intuitive sense of what it is and what it means for our lives as opposed to many outright prescriptions for behavior.Hermeticism complements this by having a much more technical and in-depth look at the relationship between God and the rest of the world and the nuts and bolts of how a human being can integrate divine consciousness into our lives. It is prose versus poetry. It is much more of an instruction manual for living; instead of trying to prompt the reader into discovering for themselves what God/Tao is through the use of paradox, poetry, and koan it concretely describes how God operates in the world and then explores the implications that has on human life. Personally I think that if you can read and understand the Tao Te Ching then you'll have very little problems diving into the Corpus Hermeticum.Hermeticism and Taoism both heavily tie into alchemy, of both external and internal varieties. Cultivation is more of a caster thing than a martial thing, if you bother to look at history at all.
>>734917637They have some superficial similarities, but nothing too substantial.
>>734917583I don’t even think you know what your point is. You keep citing shit as though they counters, when they also reinforce my own points. So I will ask again. Are you an ESL?
>>734917426>That’s magic.Thats not even the topic we're discussing, re read the thread starting from Ranni and Marika>>734917549>Chinese alchemy is shockingly alike Western alchemy; Lao Tsu has been described as the eastern HermesIts not, its called Alchemy because its similar, its not similar because its Alchemy. Chinese Alchemy did not have meaningful relation to science, and there's no major Occult "Denomination" equating Hermes and Lao Tzu that isn't just someones random interpretation.Also no Lao Tzus ideas are nothing like that of Hermes Trismegistus in Asclepius
>>734917660He’s a troll. He’s repeating blatantly wrong history to get a reaction. He does this shit too with ER lore. He has no life. It’s a troll tactic that relies on him being a fat greasy fuck sitting in his chair for hours at a time.
>>734917660To explain it in gamey terms:Evil in Zoroastrianism and Christianity is literally like "Fel" from Warcraft, that is an 'energy/principle' of its own that births objective evil and wants to destroy. It is not however every 'antagonist' or every 'wrong', and equating it as such is as silly as saying its "Fel" to jaywalk
>>734917583> Uhh youre posting points proving my point then saying they prove yoursIt actually doesn’t. Searching for knowledge of the natural world wasn’t rare. Significant knowledge bases may have been rare.
>>734917794>He does this shit too with ER loreBro this is the first ER thread I posted in this yearMaybe you're wrong, anon?
>>734917743> Chinese Alchemy did not have meaningful relation to scienceIt did. They’re responsible for discovering black powder. A Taoist alchemist actually recorded black powder eight hundred years earlier before its accidental discovery. You hate Chinese or something. You may as well pretend Chinese mathematicians didn’t exist.
>>734917743> Also no Lao Tzus ideas are nothing like that of Hermes Trismegistus in AsclepiusBoth are sages who started their respective alchemical traditions. Both are described as more god than man. They are similar in the overarching foundational sense. You’re being pedantic because you’re losing momentum in this conversation.
>>734910641She planted the Erdtree and founded Leyndell.Most of the other stuff was already there or built by her enemies.
>>734906985because miyazaki is a faggot hack. all the women are titless abominations with fridge bodies then you have a gigachad like whorea lou and faggot twinks like miquella. only mentally deranged doll fuckers have a stake in er.
>>734917007If he does, I don't get that impression from his works. It doesn't seem like a parody of buddhism, he clearly knows about it, but it's presented as though Miyazaki is aware that there is something tragic in ending the cycle. I see it like this >>734915965Once you are aware of suffering innate to individuated existence, you either become a lamenter (ignore it, essentially, put your head back in the sand, though you can never truly 'unlearn' it), seek to escape the physical world forever (frenzied flame), or do something about it as best you can, but accepting all reality 'as is'. (Miquella). I suppose the real difference there is whether you see any inherent value to material existence. Anyone who does considers the end of births as horrific beyond all measure.
>>734917875Uhh anon "Science" wasnt even a thing back then, it involves the Scientific method. What you're describing is natural philosophy and discovery.
>>734917743> Daoist Philosophy | Internet Encyclopedia of PhilosophyTaoism and science share a surprisingly complementary relationship, as both involve direct observation of nature to understand its underlying patterns, despite differing approaches. Taoism focuses on holistic, intuitive understanding and harmony with the universe (Tao), while modern science often emphasizes reductionism and experimentation. Early Taoism contributed to Chinese medicine, chemistry, and botany, and modern science is finding resonance in Taoist concepts like polarity (Yin-Yang) and ecological interconnectedness.Yeah bro so not scientific Alchemy totally has no relation to chemistry/scienceYou’re so fucking stupid lol
>>734917979Science is eternal, anon. Egyptian priests were going about the scientific method even though they didn’t acknowledge it. If you think science is just some one sided method to apply, you’re wrong. Before the Revolution took place the word science just meant an information base. It wasn’t really specific. The revolution was one of repudiation and separation.
>>734917743I love how you just blatantly state “nope” or “wrong” or “it’s not” and then someone else comes along and btfo’s you out your own asshole It takes a special sort of idiot to think alchemy has no relation to physics; you are a special sort of idiot
>>734917828>Evil in Zoroastrianism and Christianity is literally like "Fel" from Warcraft, that is an 'energy/principle' of its own that births objective evil and wants to destroy. It is not however every 'antagonist' or every 'wrong', and equating it as such is as silly as saying its "Fel" to jaywalkI can't imagine speaking so confidently something so wrong and throwing in a World of Warcraft reference at the same time.
>>734917583Perverting course of nature or going against God's words through planned and determined action = Evil in Christianity. In Paganism evil was just seen as being generally scummy and villainous, the opposite was seen as good. There was more of a principled nature. Underhanded tactics for the sake of good were permitted (seeking justice and upholding honor). Simple as. Breaking of trust and word between another person you shared in private was seen as bad behavior in most pagan societies.
>>734918008Chinese Science came from the west, not Laotzi. It also ended up having no gain from it's Laotzian tradition (though in part this is because the gommies killed all the big name Daoists). This is not the case for Western Alchemy.
>>734917828No, you fucking moron. Evil in Christianity is explicitly defined as a privation. This is basic fucking knowledge! It has to be a lack because otherwise God must be either:>not omnipotent>evilAugustine wrote entire books criticizing manichean dualism. Almost every christian sect believes that evil does not have a positive existence. It has been this way since the fucking neoplatonists outlined it.The fact that you resort to fucking Warcraft to justify your wrong belief just outs you as a person who hasn't actually read the fucking material being discussed.
>>734918130I was talking about Chinese "practices" whose only legacy nowadays is Wuxia novels>>734918134Ok give me your description of Evil in any terminology >inb4 Geralts Witcher 3 trailer speech
>>734918134He’s not wrong though. Zoroastrianism’s focus was quite literally the black and white good vs evil autism. It was entirely dualistic. This campus absolutism was carried over into Judaism and leaked into Islam and Christianity. Western religions are not lenient at all.
>>734918181> Chinese Science came from the west, not LaotziAnon. I fucking hate China but even I’m not stupid enough to think this. China only absorbed the West’s science once they realized they fell behind everyone. Japan did this way earlier.
>>734918181Western alchemy won. Chinese alchemy lagged. Both were still poking at physics. Both came to similar conclusions. Both drank mercury like fucking morons.
>>734918008He has a point here though. Alchemy can be described as just medieval chemistry. It did genuinely concern itself with chemistry. It just happened to also contain a lot of things that modern chemistry does not have.
>>734918228>>Augustine wrote entire books criticizing manichean dualism. Almost every christian sect believes that evil does not have a positive existence. It has been this way since the fucking neoplatonists outlined it.>The fact that you resort to fucking Warcraft to justify your wrong belief just outs you as a person who hasn't actually read the fucking material being discussed.That doesn't contradict my example, that's just heuristic + it was to justify Christianity as 'perfect' in spite logical contradiction, but ultimately its dualism as Zoroastrianism was.>Augustine Was after Arian, because Christians had no clue until someone brought up Arian's contradiction to their logic. All those arguements were made in response to critique and weren't part of the Bible. Also the Greeks did that uber 'monism' first with Orphism >>734918318That's just conflating science with natural philosophy though. Historians would absolutely say its the Christians who brought Science to China.
>>734906985Then why did they cause most of the problems in ER?
>>734918181> Chinese Science came from the westNow? Yes. Then? No. China isolated itself and kept to its own devices. Then the opium wars happened. Then Japan looked on in utter horror as their superior neighbour lost to an even more superior foe.
>>734918236>Doesn't even do Neidan practices and QiGong Kung Fu forms.Are you courting death? Junior?
>>734918236Just read any Christian description of evil please, I beg you. Augustine, Aquinas, the Church fathers, anyone, I'm sure even Pastor Bob Smith from Kentucky. It follows logically from scripture, too. It's a logical contradiction for evil to be anything other than a privation in Christianity.
>>734918478> That's just conflating science with natural philosophy thoughI laughed out loud. Sorry. This is so wrong it’s funny. Natural philosophy is he older word for physics—which is science as it is. Natural philosophers were the physicists of their time. Science is as simple as fucking around and finding out. It’s simple observation-theory. Fucking around and finding out IS the scientific wheel/method, albeit less professional. Fucking around and finding out IS what the Chinese alchemists/chemists did when they “accidentally” discovered black powder in their search for an elixir of immortality, mixing random shit together.
>>734918478>it was to justify Christianity as 'perfect'No. It was drawing directly from neoplatonism and attempting to reconcile perceived evil with God's existence. Conclusion: neoplatonists are right and evil does not actually have any sibstantial existence. It is a mere privation or corruption of the goodborne from disobedience to God. >ArianHis name was fucking Arius, moron, and he too believed that evil was a privation.
>>734918569Please do me a favor and describe evil yourself. Aquinas is dead and buried, (You) describe [Evil].
>>734918463> He has a point here thoughHe does not. It’s like that dumb bitch who recently claimed Da Vinci wasn’t a real scientist. That’s pedantic to the point of comedy. > It just happened to also contain a lot of things that modern chemistry does not have.So just like literally any other form of outdated thinking?
>>734918643>corruption of the goodborne from disobedience to God.That's circular logic unless you make an axiom out of Christianity. Describe the intrinsic component of this "God". >inb4 conflating Greek "Dyus/Zyus" with Christian "God"
Aquinas was based. Possibly the reason why learning about nature was seen as a holy and divine endeavour to make God happy. It’s probably why the Church became associated with higher learning for the time. Many of Europe’s big name natural philosophers like Roger Bacon and Albertus Magnus were Christian monks. Christianity is why so many institutions of learning were built. This includes fucking Oxford. The idea that Christianity held science back is awful.
>>734918607Yea you're rightstill doesn't make it science though, as the term science carries different connotations and implications such as standardization, a more specific goal and methodology and of course the vastly more efficient rate of discovery.
AQUINAS WAS A PEDOPHILE MY MUSLIM FRIEND TOLD ME
>>734918808>The idea that Christianity held science back is awful.Clearly it held literacy back because no one is talking about that nigga????Also the Greeks and Romans had all that shit before Christians burned it to the ground. Christians brought it back in imitation of the Greeks and Romans.
>>734918684This isn't about him, autist. It is about the fact that you do not know the most fundamental basic fact of christian theology. Evil is an absence of God. It does not actually exist. This follows from greek philosophy going back to plato. Undercurrents can be found even in Stoicism but most directly in Neoplatonism. Greek philosophers were such life/creation affirmers that they banished evil from existence. Evil is just borne from delusion, ignorance, lack of something and the realest something is the Good.
>>734918830Science is a few things:1. Knowledge (this is where the word comes from) and information that can be applied (technology, chemistry, cooking, etc, are all applied sciences)2. The method of “fuck around and find out” (causality/repeatability as it is - with the additional nuances of the reproducibility crisis - each stroke of a paint brush won’t be exactly the same - things like the big bang already happened - etc) which is the bare minimum of science 3. The scientific community and overall consensus, peer review, etc (consider that half of the scientific community can’t even tell you what a woman is - it is more or less a cult at present)4. Physics, nature, reality, as it is - Einstein himself did not see science as merely something to apply in the one sided sense; he saw it as a background symphony, playing its cosmic tune independent of whether or not we listen in. It lies in wait for all time; “the music of the spheres”; he directly compared it to Mozart “locating” already existent beauty, or harmonyArguing “it’s not really science” is like arguing that Da Vinci wasn’t a scientist because he refused to share his notes with others and kept his shit secret. “Ree a true scientist shares in his research reee”. Fuck off. Even brilliant people like Gauss didn’t trust his peers. Peer review is known to shit on you and take credit for your hard work.
>>734918870We've had to endure much, you and I, but soon there will be order again, a new age. Aquinas spoke of the mythical City on the Hill. Soon that city will be a reality, and we will be crowned its kings.Or better than kings. Gods>>734918889>Evil is just borne from delusion, ignorance, lack of something and the realest something is the Good.Uhh no its borne from Original Sin of Eve eating the apple, which is a Yiddish origination myth for them justifying being anti-life. Canonical Catholic Christianity (the one blessed by Jesus as part of the Bible) doesn't believe any of that and actually affirms Devils and shit being separate because they betrayed God because.
>>734918885Christianity needed reform. It got one. This is why Islam is still backward and anti intellectual. No reform. Galileo had patrons and sponsors within the church btw. He was an asshole to the pope - his former friend - and that’s why he was house arrested.
>>734906985I've never played it, thankfully. Don't NPCs in those game have very limited dialogue?
>>734918710Yeah. Weren't you saying that alchemy was not chemistry? I am saying that it is often described as medieval chemistry by many scientists and philosophers.>>734918763>That's circular logic unless you make an axiom out of Christianity.That is, ultimately, how all fucking frameworks work. God is the creator. Creation is fundamentally good. Evil arises from corruption of created goods, which amounts to disobedience. This is just what Christianity is.
>>734918995"ology" (the reason for something to exist or happen and the causation and effect.) = "Philosophy"; doesn't have to be science. Science on the other hand is the solved problem's equation to a factual state; unless otherwise proven through exception to the rule: is a working theory and always true. (no bullshit allowed.)
>>734918885> Clearly it held literacy back because no one is talking about that niggaFamily Guy put forth the notion that we’d be a thousand years more advanced if Christianity never existed. It gave fuel to the atheist crowd. Only now are people being told that Christianity is why some of the best institutions for learning got built.
>>734918995You're missing the 'standardization' part of Science. Natural Philosophy and experimentation are expected to follow scientific standards under the pretense that not doing so is considered a dice roll, while Science expects a specification.Funnily enoguh the comparison of Science to Natural Philosophy is very similar to the Sefirot/Shattering parallels Elden Ring has with the Erdtree and the Elden Ring being shattered.>>734919113We're talking about Alchemy and esoteric rites nigga
>>734919079Science HAS a (natural) philosophy. You can’t even remove philosophy from science. Scientists always take philosophical positions whenever they entertain the theoretical or hypothetical.Listen. Natural philosophy won. All forms of philosophical thinking must be natural.
>>734919007>Uhh no its borne from Original Sin of Eve eating the appleI was talking about the philosophers. Evil originates in disobedience to God in christianity. But in both cases, it is described as a lack.>Canonical Catholic Christianity (the one blessed by Jesus as part of the Bible) doesn't believe any of that and actually affirms Devils and shit being separate because they betrayed God becauseNo, my retarded friend. Canonocal catholic christianity believes that evil is a lack and it does not affirm the peddlers of the lack.
>>734919185> Natural Philosophy and experimentation are expected to follow scientific standards under the pretense that not doing so is considered a dice roll, while Science expects a specification.That’s conduct. Science is just science. Making a campfire is science. Cooking is an applied science. Even engineers are scientists, technically. No amount of disagreeing with me will change that fact. Science is everywhere.
>>734919201Are you retarded? the "ology" part is just the problem solving/scientific process behind making the factual statement. You must be mentally ill.
>>734919201>All forms of philosophical thinking must be natural.This doesn't mean much.
>>734919185> Funnily enoguh the comparison of Science to Natural PhilosophyWhat comparison? That’s literally what science is. Science is/has a natural philosophy. Jesus Christ. You people have become mind broken over word barriers. You think all words are oil and water and have no overlap. Reality is nature is physics is science is existence.
>>734906985Goldmask is the smartest person in the setting, and a man
>>734907031Hehe. In real life women are just as stupid as med are, just in different areas of lapse in logic. Making women smarter and more capable in a game to "correct" gender inequality is a rather common practice nowdays, just prolly not one done in Elden Ring of all games due to nature of NPC dialogue in the game being very limited. OP is making stuff up, more likely.
>>734919265You’re mentally ill for not seeing the lineage of scientific terminology. Sorry.
>>734907118Never played Elden Ring, what does that even means?
>>734919185See. You’re still assuming that 21st century is real science, only because it’s cucked and a giant woman. “Noo you must do it properly”. Yeah well according to Jews like Weinstein that’s why science is failing and we haven’t advanced at all. We don’t reward divergent thought or genius anymore. People like Feynman and Einstein wouldn’t be allowed to get anywhere in present day. True science is mad unsafe science that pushes boundaries. Safe “professional” is not true science. It’s stifling and slows all progress. You’ll notice that most of history’s most brilliant people were insane. They weren’t sane. They were nutty.
>>734919541Nta. You familiar with Feyerabend by any chance,
>>734919541> Yeah well according to Jews like Weinstein that’s why science is failing and we haven’t advanced at all. We don’t reward divergent thought or genius anymore. People like Feynman and Einstein wouldn’t be allowed to get anywhere in present day. Quantum physics hasn’t advanced in 70 years. Sad!
>>734919541Real science is done at military and private institutions. Einstein would've been hired by DARPA.
>>734907118The best staff at high Int is Lusat's though.
>>734907601Hear, hear! Capable and smart women make me unconfident! I need my women submissive and docile to feel like a man. All they're good for is making sandwiches and NOT voting.
>>734919614No I’m not. But at a quick glance I’m assuming he didn’t see anything bad or unnecessary about the mad genius. It’s entirely necessary.
>>734907748INTeresting.
>>734919731Well, maybe you'd be interested in him and Thomas Kuhn.
Isaac Newton was more so an occultist or theologian, or mad dabbler, than natural philosopher proper. Natural philosophy was a side gig for him. Complimentary.
>>734906985This is just a forced meme narrative. Stop watching shitty identity politics content creators for your opinions, you stupid cattle.
>>734919821Anyone who appreciates divergent thought and sees dissent as not necessarily a bad thing, I can appreciate. Cheers.
>>734912298No, it's just autists who loved the games getting their cocks chopped off and still enjoying the games they did before
>>734919541> Yeah well according to Jews like Weinstein that’s why science is failing and we haven’t advanced at all.?????
>>734919315He's the second smartest person currently alive. He's also equally faithful.
>>734907118Rellana was so obsessed with Messmer she followed him into the Shadow Realms and, after he rejected her, she spent the rest of her immortal life guarding the only path to his keep. How is that intelligent.
>>734910429based peepee poopoo man
I don't know what the fuck you're all saying breh
>>734913949You have never had a XX girlfriend.
>>734919941String theory hasn’t advanced in fifty years
>>734908016Interesting take. Haven't played the game, but didn't know it had such depth. I thought NPCs are as flat as in Dark Souls. To think there are different philosophies about spellcasting and looking into space is amazing to me. Elden Ring sure is far richer in lore compared to other Fromsoft games I know of.
“No. The Chinese did not have science of their own.”What a phenomenally retarded thread
>>734918254Zoroastrianism is dualistic, yes. People are understandably baffled and criticizing him for his assertion that Christianity is dualist. Maybe in the body and soul philosophical sense, but not at all in the good/evil sense.
>>734920328You don’t understand. Alchemy isn’t science. Drinking mercury isn’t science.
>>734920009>after he rejected herI'm 100% sure Messmer faps all day thinking about his mother
>he isn't mercury maxingngmi
>>734919650Darpa does nothing but steal ideas and weaponize them, so, you're probably right.Einstein never creted shit but did borrow from other people like Leibniz and Henri Poincare. He was more socialist leaning though, like Tesla, so he probably wouldn't have willingly worked with DARPA.
>>734918254Also, it seems you are falling for his idiocy too. You simply do not understand the christian conception of Evil nor its precursor in platonic thought.
>>734908134Women are just as stupid as men are in reality. Different areas of lapse in logic, but just as dumb.Women are prone to being mob-minded like men do. Women will start wars like men do when given the chance. INT =/= WIS. Humans are just silly, silly creatures. In fiction, making women more clever and capable than men to "fix' gender inequality is common, but I'm not sure it's done in Elden Ring. OP is making stuff up, more likely.
>>734920234>Elden Ring sure is far richer in lore compared to other Fromsoft games I know of.All thanks to GRRM. It's amazing how an actual writer known for world building and lore was the missing piece to make a coherent world.The "time is convoluted" meme in DS games was too absurd.
>>734920009Someone can be very intelligent but still emotionally driven, and on the other hand someone can be more logically driven but not that smart.
>>734920396I’d argue since Christianity is a reformed religion it allows for far more nuance and complexity. Christianity shows that there is more to good and bad, than simply bad being bad and good being good. A bad person doing a good deed is a bigger statement than an already good person doing a good deed. It’s that wrestle for goodness that’s human. Sometimes even good people are blinded by good and can’t make the necessary “bad” decision in time for the greater good. Criminals with a white conscience definitely exist.
>>734920505My understanding of Evil in Christianity is that it is faceted. Even a good person can do bad. Even a bad person can do good. But there’s definitely true evil in the world in the form of certain populations given in to totally malevolent delusions. Ignorance is more evil than evil.
>>734908589>they're just extremely manipulativeCunning. Same difference. It takes smarts to idsntify an opportunity and take it. It takes long-term oversight to plan to use someone up.If a woman is manipulative, she's smart enough to think ahead and make use of situations that may appear. Idk if that's the case in Elden Ring, but it is so in practice.
> A bad person doing a good deed is a bigger statement than an already good person doing a good deedThis is why I find it bizarre for Christians to be anti gay and shit when a gay Christian is really just a contrarian Christian still doing good despite being in the supposed wrong. What’s it called when you believe you’re going to hell (and you don’t care about it either way) but you still want to help and do good?
>>734920681I need examples of logical but retarded characters now
“Cunning is a woman’s weapon”So women are more like men than men realize? Cunning wins wars. War leaders are meant to be cunning.
>>734921103Sir Gideon Ofnir, The All-Knowing
When I’m Elden Lord I’m chopping off Gideon’s head and making him Not!Mimir He deserves this fate
>>734920396Christianity has metaphysical and religious dualism but not essence dualism. Its the same dualism that we're talking about that has its origins in Zoroastrianism. Only certain Gnosticism and Mechanism practiced such dualism, which Catholicism denies. To compare, Zoroastrianism and Catholicism are philosophically closer regarding G/E than Catholicism and Kabbalahs idea of Kelippot is. Kelippot are 'metaexistence' that pervades externally of God, but they are not evil, they are impurities that can be purified back into the Sefirot or burned away to let the light perpetuate, and ridding the word of impurities is considered the way to unify the Sefirot (which plays into the Jews whole thing with ruling the world and changing it according to their view).
roblox
>>734920762>>734918254You mean a co-opted religion by you snow monkeies who were originally worshipping Loki.>>734920909Sounds like weasel logic that the Epstein associates use to justify raping and eating babies and shit.
>>734921341I’d argue Zoroastrianism was an up and down on the duality thing. At some points they’re rather open and lenient and at other points they’re quite hard. Duality is either all or nothing or open to interpretation. There’s rarely an in between. This is sad since reality is a dual one, or one of dual nuance. There are vital existences based on vital lacks or absences. Dark being an absence of light, cold an absence of heat, etc. Reality is binary (0 and 1, not 1 and 2).
Ok, but who was this dude?
>>734920648I've heard of GRRM's involvement. Well, wouldn't you know?
>>734921341Also Catholicism rejects the term dualism but that's because it simplifies/dumbs down the prestige of its religion to something you can analyze and reduce + dualism sounded 'Pagan' which Christianity kept distancing itself from actively. Catholicism has had PR teams longer than anyone else on planet Earth except maybe Jews.
>>734921534Not!Moses. Elden John. The firstest-firstest Elden Lord. Before the one before Placidusax. Back when the Beast was but a wee innocent jellybean.
The Elden beast abandoned Placidusax because the funny goo people (Numen immigrants) that arrived were better food- I mean better subjects, haha
>>734913330>The smartest character in the game is Goldmask and Gideon Ofnir>gideon ofnir>"well now tarnished you've killed my loyal edgy shitass assasin, and all of the ultra powerful demi-gods that I was unable to kill or too afraid to kill, in no small part I suspect, due to still being guided by the grace of roundtable hold, allowing you to be reincarnated at sites of grace unlike I, who the grace abandoned long ago and will be killed graveyard dead as balls if I die once. Now prepare yourself tarnished, I'm going to kill you??? before you can kill queen marika and inherit the throne of elden lordPure genius.
>>734921731I also think some sort of mass exodus took place.
>>734921793> Fat 41 yr old troonanonProve it
>>734921793My headcanon is that Gideon locked himself in the Roundtable Hold once he lost sight of Grace to not die permantly, that's why he relies on assasins (Ensa), thugs (that one bannerman in Rykard's arena) and orphans (Nepheli) to do his dirty work.
>>734922005I could have SWORN Gideon, being one of the original Tarnished, knew Marika in person, once. He was mind broken over realizing her plan. Either because he was not convinced anyone could kill the Beast or because Marika never intended for anyone to replace her. His ambitions crushed.
Why is magic parasitic in these games?Glintstone? Parasite. Insight? Parasite. Fountainhead waters? Parasite. Their hosts become vegetables.
>>734915965the heck is that chart??
>>734915965Mental illness
>>734922362The higher tiers of magic arent parasiticNeither is 'pure Buddhist practice'Also Insight in Bloodborne is as to become a GodClearly the theme is 'the wrong way is parasitic, the right way is Divine'
>>734921793>allowing you to be reincarnated at sites of graceNot canon, gameplay only. >>734922398>>734922461It is the dread of all loretubers. It is the end of all speculation. Find a fault: you can't.
>>734922507> The higher tiers of magic arent parasiticPrimeval sorcery - the highest stage of sorcery - has you being infected by a living species of rock. > Neither is 'pure Buddhist practice'Their bodies are “infested” with centipedes and worms and beetles though??? > Also Insight in Bloodborne is as to become a GodThe icon for madman’s knowledge is a skull bursting open with slugs
>>734922751>No, the highest level ones are the Moon spells which dont turn you into a rock>The Buddhist monks were corrupted because the betrayed the tenants of Buddhism. A theme of Sekiro is that Sekiro is ultimately a Buddhist more than he is a Shintoist, which is why you pray at Buddha statues and meditate while selflessly coming back to life as to continue your duty and in one ending even KMS to save your adopted Son.>Anon the secret ending of Bloodborne is you becoming that slug and becoming a literal eldritch entity. Thats a good thing. Its an aspiration.
>>734922873> No, the highest level ones are the Moon spells which dont turn you into a rockBullshit. Rennala and her sister have rocks for tits they’re just so polished you cannot tell.
>>734922873> The Buddhist monks were corrupted because the betrayed the tenants of BuddhismNah they’re just retarded.
>>734909374Elden Ring in the Disney style but as dark fantasy would be cool.
>>734906985A lot of Japanese male incels are feminists. The idea of women being better than men appeals to them for some reason.
>>734920435I mean have you seen how Marika looks?
>>734922873>>734922751Gravity and crystallian sorceries are most fundamental. Crystal release is also called the crystal sun and looks like founding rain of stars. Gravitational missile comes from the "lightless dark far beyond" which is what Azure saw when he developed comet azure. I think the most fundamental of all is eternal darkness as that is a void, and the staff of loss does not even require a glintstone. I would consider the moon a combination of these: it is described as dark, but has the characteristics of a gravity sorcery (being a planetary mass object), and having the magic inherent to crystal and glintstone.
>>734907118Do you seriously think that Rellana is smarter than Ranni and Rennala? It's obvious that these numbers are set to what they are for gameplay purposes, not lore purposes.
>>734922873> Anon the secret ending of Bloodborne is you becoming that slugEwww no it doesn’t
>>734923525Crystalian sorceries are firmly situated as one step below primeval sorceries if you compare the crystallian staff to the staves of Azur and Lusat.
>>734923586Two Moons > One MoonJust saying
>>734923739They glimpsed the moons TOGETHER, so presumably this means Rennala has her own version of the spell.
>>734923643Isnt it supposed to be the Skull hatching like an egg for the 'monster'?
>>734923739Yeah but Rellana is a hybrid caster while Rennala is a full caster, it's obvious Rellana was more into martial pursuits while Rennala was more academic.
>>734917285Rebirth is unnecessary/not even called for in general. Miquella isn't dead when he becomes a God, he's a spirit somewhat separated from a body, but he's still 'living'. He can still be harmed and killed and parts of himself that he casts off have material forms (St. Trina). Miquella chopped his soul up because he wanted to make himself perfect because he identified the issue with Marika's reign as being Marika's own flaws as a human. His issue is that he ostensibly never communicated with his Two Fingers enough to realize that they were frauds all along. He didn't realize that everything was flawed at the root because the guides never knew the right direction. Marika was a bad woman at her core, but she was never going to be a good Goddess because she pledged allegiance to deaf, dumb, and blind patrons. And in reality basically everyone that could become a God would be bad at it. Fundamentalism is the study of the Golden Order itself, but history is not a significant part of itself. Radagon has no links to Farum Azula, for example. Miquella doesn't either, even if he did abandon Fundamentalism eventually. Miquella didn't care about past Golden Orders, but he did care about the origins of the one he knew, and it is potentially in knowing that the Golden Order of Marika had such an unimpressive origin that he comes to hate Marika's Order. Marika keeps Radagon away from Godhood, because she is selfish. They're not working together, they're opposed. If anything, Marika is the one that has a larger interest in history, not Radagon.
All Elden lords and hosts of the Elden Ring are meant to grow and thrive and wane and then die. This is the natural order of things. Marika tried to stop it.
>>734923738Following that logic the Carians are, because their sceptre is 60 int. The meteorite staff has highest scaling and is the only weapon that can't be upgraded: fundamental.
>>734920234I like Elden Ring lore but a lot of what that guy said is pretty much just speculation. The appeal of From lore is that it encourages speculation which is far more fun and interesting than just being told outright how to interpret something.
Ever since Demon's Souls they've been doing this exact same trick where they make you believe INT and FAI are two different, opposite things, but then it's revealed near the end of the game that they're basically two sides of the same coin.
Arcane stat does not make sense lorewise when you think about it
>>734923936Miquella didn't have any issues besides opposing the PC. He is the only one with the power to subdue all outer gods, including the Frenzied Flame (needle, sleep). Radahn conquered the stars (gravity magic-fundamental), and Mohg's body connected him more strongly to vitality, blood and the crucible.He had all the tools needed to rule.The defeat of Miquella is really the most tragic thing in all Souls.Consult the Chart >>734915965
>>734924784Miquella is evil
>>734924784He can't subdue the Gods. We can do it because we basically break the Matrix when we combine Miquella's magic with Placidusax's time magic. Somewhere that Miquella would probably never even know existed. We're doing some kind of internal alchemy there that no one else could have done. Not even Miquella.
>>734915965Explain why you think Gideon's seal is so important here.
>>734916240>creating gold and other legendary substancesThat was an allegory...
>>734906985Ranni's masterplan was to sit around and wait for someone to do everything for her. She's not smart at all.
>>734915951>the Eleusynian Mysteries which were incredibly mainstream>mysteries>mainstreamWhat the fuck am I reading?
>>734924834Only because he doesn't purge Hornshits
>>734921534wouldn't he be wearing rhinestone glasses if he were Elden John?
>>734925151The "mysteries" term relates to what they are, aka esoteric knowledge of the truth of existence requiring mystical experience, not to the fact that they were overly secretive. The mysteries became a mainstay of the Roman Empire wherein thousands of Roman and most Roman Emperors partook in them, and were so widespread that even Indians knew of them, some even traveling to Rome to partake in them.
>>734925058The symbology could relate to anyone in a similar position (and it does to yama in the bhavacakra on the left), but for Gideon himself: he learnt everything there was to know, demigods, failure of the fingers etc. but faced with the Elden Beast he despaired, so his three paths were to the frenzied flame and mindless destruction, some type of hiding away in madness like the lamenter, or turning back and gatekeeping the progress of others, which he did. He says to the word:>Miquella is the one thing that remains a mystery to me
>>734915965I don't even know how I'm supposed to read this chart. Is this trying to say that Miquella is associated with ultraviolet radiation? What does that even mean? Some text would be helpful instead of just vague coloured lines.
>>734925373>esoteric knowledge>mainstreamWhat the fuck am I reading?
>>734925780Esoteric in a metaphysical sense, its why (You) haven't partaken in them, nor had most people in this thread. The Eleusynian Mysteries of Athens grew to insane degrees of popularity before Christian Rome abandoned them. Also the Eleusynian Mysteries were amongst the first to be 'victims' of the need to 'make them more popular and welcoming to more people' instead of closed off, as per the writings of certain Greeks, this topic may be one of the reasons Socrates got the death penalty.
>>734925654I pieced a few separate things together so I'll have to redo some of it to make sense. Those blue lines as they stand were essentially just for emphasis, which the black arrows representing progress or connection, and the solid lines limitation/end of progress in that branch: the two blue lines leading to Miquella are intended to show the connection between the intuitive and intellectual faiths being necessary.The light thing was to show relation between sigils/states of nature. You see gravity magic is UV, derivative magics blue etc, death magic, the eclipse-black. Everything else between, in the visible light spectrum.
>>734925896>this topic may be one of the reasons Socrates got the death penalty.Sounded like bullshit but I looked it up and that's actually pretty damn interesting
>>734925896>Esoteric in a metaphysical senseWhat the fuck does this even mean?That's not what it was at all. As every esoteric knowledge you have an apparent meaning and a hidden one, what you're talking about is the apparent one, also called exoteric.To this day we still have absolutely no idea what the mysteries were, it's all guess work.Saying that we know what the mysteries were is like saying that we know what Atlantis was.
>>734912417No White trash can fool me, fool me, fool me
>>734924834>Miquella is evil
>>734926449Kek
>>734924960he subdued Malenia's rot, the needle we use in placidusax's a prototype. less effective than Malenia's needle. he definitely can subdue the outer gods
>>734926090Pure speculation. Zero evidence. Not very likely.
>>734912417kekBased.
Malenia won.
>>734915965i see, you are a korean
>>734927335Wrong.
>>734926642He held it at bay as she slowly rotted. He never could actually cure or suppress her Rot.
>>734927335...the losing to Radahhn competition.
>>734928945Wrong,
>>734927335>Malenia won.Malenia was stronger than prime Radahn
>>734928105>>734928105>He held it at bay as she slowly rottedhis unalloyed needle stalled malenia's rot completely. it didn't cure it but stalled it, she doesn't have to fear succumbing to the rot while the needle is intact
>minimum int>all str>grab big stick>BONK my way to godhoodit just works
if sorcerers are so smart how come none of them wear shoes
>>734906985>⠃⠇⠕⠉⠅⠎ ⠽⠕⠥⠗ ⠏⠁⠹
>>734921586>Jews>having PR teamsThey've always survived on a blend of segregation, bribery, and finance, with some of the nobler ones becoming craftsmen.
Baby making sex with Ranni
>>734907118Ymir straight up tells you the primeavel current is much more impressive than the moon, the moon is just the closest celestial body
>>734930384>he can't levitatelol ngmi
>>734931305Imagine the rope burn
>>734930139The Cleanrots all being half-bug mutants (even in the cinematic trailer before she used her Scarlet Aeonia) shows that isn't true, you are too hopeful for Miquella's work.
Any lorefags who can tell me what Marika's origins are exactly and what are the worlds outside the lands between? They say her race are numens that are outsiders to the world and then we have her home be the shaman village in the shadow land which I assume counts as part of the lands between. So is she a native or no
>>734906985It's fantasy also the women are hot so we don't question it
>>734906985>has to rely on a man (the tarnsihed) for everything>>734930418Highest INT and FTH character in the game>>734910429Goo man
>>734931969We barely know anything so I'm just gonna ramble about a bunch of stuff that's kind of related and maybe if you put them together you might be able to interpret some meaning from it.>The Shaman are likely just one specific group of the race called the Numen>Shamans have a unique ability to graft things to their flesh, and this likely applies to all Numen>Marika and all her offspring probably count as Numen and so they share the same trait>hence Godrick being obsessed with grafting>and Godwyn's body basically turning into a cancer that spreads throughout the world like tree roots>and Miquella embedding himself in the Haligtree>The Grandmother either embedded herself into a tree the same way or maybe the tree grew from her body>Possibly that's how the Erdtree and Haligtree were grown as well, we already know they feed off of organic matter like blood and corpses>The Grandmother's tree has a small hole at the top of it which is similar to the Rauh Burrows which are intended to be inhabited by spirits>The Shamans are referred to as being "spirited away" which is a concept in Japanese mythology which basically means being abducted by gods/spirits>The Black Knife assassins are Numen>By extension the Black Knife assassins, the Numen, and Marika, are associated with the Eternal Cities>The Nox were probably silver tears/albinaurics created by the Numen>We only hear about a few places outside the Lands Between but barely any details>It's possible the Numen come from outer space like Metyr and Elden Beast>Marika seems to have been guided by Metyr and the Fingers, maybe the Shamans worshipped them, the Numen and the Nox seem to have a connection to them as well with the Fingerslayer Blade>The Eternal Cities probably worshipped the Greater Will and then decided to turn against it, causing their downfall>the Fingerslayer Blade was made from a corpse and looks like the Sacred Relic Sword which was made from Radagon's bodyProbably missed some stuff.
>>734931396>conjuring a miniature moon, 70 int>conjuring a miniature universe, 40 intBRAVO MIYAZAKI
>>734933648Stats are non-diegetic and anyone who draws story/lore conclusions based on them is retarded. I'm getting flashbacks to people saying Caesar is canonically stupid because he has 4 INT, a fact that's impossible to know without datamining.
>>734908220>Faith and Intelligence are related to Mind.this is a christcuck take, buddha said retards are more likely to achieve samsara since they have more suffering points to win the game.
>>734924758The Arcane lore isn't developed enough. You just fight the avatars of some of the outer gods, but you don't get to commune with them storywise.
>>734924192>The appeal of From lore is that it encourages speculation which is far more fun and interesting than just being told outright how to interpret somethingThat's one way of looking at it. Or From is lazy. But other anon said that the richer lore comes from the involvement of GRRM in the worldbuilding, which is something he does best. Letting a writer write turnes out to be... effective.Whether it's deeper worldbuilding due to GRRM's influence or plain speculation, it is an interesting take, which is what I called it in my reply. Magic depending on worldview and approach to the moon, stars, and the devine. So much derived from few (I assume) NPC dialogue lines.The way is surely mixing written lore with game mechanics in practice to make an educated guess as to how the world works and what meaning the mechanics have for the lore. For example requiring high INT to learn a spell means you need good occult understanding to learn this lore dependent and specific spell, which may say something even wider on magic as a whole.
>>734935730I wouldn't call it lazy when you consider the sheer volume of text in the game. Also I think people massively overestimate Martin's contribution.
