Anyone with 50k hour can make anything look OP.Stop fixating on snipers
>Stop fixating on snipersOnly when they stop killing me for walking out of spawn
just buy disarming hex
no amount of hours will make you able to kill someone from the other side of the map as heavyshoo, sniper main
>>735079108Just dodge. You can see where they're aiming.
>>735079014>clicks on you from across the map in a corner you couldn't even see>doesn't telegraph his attack or reveal his position in any way (like Heavy's spinup sound, Spy's decloak and smoke, Sentry gun beeping)>can safely remain in that exact spot as long as he wants. Sniper relies on flawed game design, he's not fun or engaging to interact with
>>735079884>flawed game designyou say this in a game with shit like medic ubers
>>735079014>Almost every class has a shotgun>Game is clearly intended for most fights to be close to mid range>Anyway here's this class that can one tap you from infinite range>Thanks to newer maps not having the same design philosophy there's a lot of points you can't simply flank them>Also any soft counters like Spy or Pyro flares have a weapon that allows them to shrug off the threat>Have fun!
Add sway and make his aim not 1:1 with the mouse and you've got a perfectly balanced class that noone plays
>>735079803>just dodgelag compensation makes this impossible>you can see where they're aimingthe sniper can just hide his laser sight by looking at a closer object for a moment. That's like if spies could mute their decloak sound by crouching.
>>735080095The fact that they added the Razorback AND the Danger Shield is still so fucking insane to me. Sniper already soft counters most classes by having ten times their effective range and the ability to instantly kill them whenever he wants, but apparently he (and only him) just really needed TWO items that fuck over his counters?The only other weapon in the game that’s like this is the spycicle and that’s hot garbage Genuinely what was Valve thinking
>>735079981Ubers are only an issue if your team can't play as a team while your opponents can
>>735080751Medic and his ubers are so overpowered entire game revolves around him and medic count is the single most deciding factor who wins in a pub game.
>>735080856If your Snipers aren't shit they're popping Medics before they're popping Ubers
>>735081026Not when they are overhealed with 225 hp. Stop larping noob.
>>735079014only players in the bottom of bottom will complain about snipers in fps games, it's a literal skill issuebtw I'm a CS player and the last time I tried TF2 I wiped everyone with the sniper guy, TF2 players are just suck at video games
>>735079803>Just dodge hitscan
>>735079014I'd say medic is more OP
>>735081487medic makes the game more interesting, without him it would just be engineer v engineer stalematessniper actively removes content from the game as being in any open space is a death sentence
>>735081163If your Snipers aren't shit they aren't quickscoping aimbots, either
>>735080095>old map design GOODAnon, old maps are chokepoint central with ZERO flank routes like dustbowl which means sniper doesnt even need to be aware of his surroundings and can hardscope the same doorway.More-modern map design has more open spaces which does more to enable mobile classes like soldier, demo, and scout to shit on the rest of the cast than they do to enable sniper sightlines.
>>735081362Dood just move unpredictably and he won't get you... maybe
>>735082571Why wouldn't this work?
>>735082835>he predicts your outmaneuveringWhat now?
>>735083629He got a lucky guess or you didn't properly mix up your movement making it possible to read in the first place.Snipers can't read your mind and chances of dodging is still in your favor at least 70% even against a hypothetical sniper with 100% mechanical perfection.
Any time I see these threads I'm reminded of planetside 2 where everyone would bitch about infiltrators meanwhile they weren't even that good and contributed very little to the overall fight. And in that game snipers not only have travel time but bullet drop too which made headshots way harder to hit than people think.
>>735079014Is there a single competitive multiplayer game that is actually improved by including snipers?
>>735083846Problem is that only airstrafing will actually make a very good sniper miss.Crouching doesnt help much since its not instant and he can just wait for you to uncrouch unless you want to crawl towards him. You also cannot crouch in the air, it pulls your legs up instead. Jumping also has a predictable element of gravity, only a doublejump can throw off how long it takes for you to hit the floor again.Strafing is the only way to dodge, and airstrafing is the only way to do it quickly while actually approaching him, which limits good counter movement to scout, soldier, and demo, and requiring that they commit to a jump.Suppressive fire really needed to be better for other classes to stand a chance against a godlike sniper, but thats a decision in 2007 that was never considered.
>>735084372Trick question, there is no good competitive shooter.Well, at least sniper sometimes help stop heavy spam depending on map.
Respect the sightline.
>>735084372No, new shooters include snipers because every shooter has snipers.
>>735084470"Competitive" was probably the wrong word. I'm referring to PvP games. Snipers are fine in PvE shooters because they might be appealing to metafags, but they don't make the gameplay worse.
>>735084464The thing is if you could consistently approach sniper from an open place sniper would be pointless and suck. He has to deny some area just like how demo and heavy denies. Which also makes sniper extremely map dependent while demo and heavy generally almost always work.Basically this >>735084551You are likely to dodge a shot or maybe even two. But being so out of position a sniper can take multiple shots at you, I think at that point he is working as intended.
What maps are people playing to bitch about Sniper so incessantly? Have any of you people actually played a map made in the last five years? The longest sightlines on those maps are like 10 feet because the mapmakers are so scared of Sniper, you're going to get drilled by god Snipers on those maps anyways because the only way to make the class useful at all is by pulling off the most disgusting quickscopes known to man.Maybe stop playing maps like 2fort, Badwater, Upward, and Dustbowl if you shit your diapy over Sniper.
>>735084742sniper's role shouldn't exist in the first place
>instadie to sticky trap right outside of spawn door>*crickets*>instadie to soldier and his kritz medic girlfriend right outside of spawn door>*crickets*>instadie to spy camping the spawn door>*crickets*>instadie to sniper camping the spawn door>REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEMake it make sense.
>play sniper>suck shit and die to 6v6 invite player>new map is beerbowl>fuck them in the ass and drop a 50 bombI don't care what anyone says about sniper. if you never got raped by Jay, Zilly or fucking kobe while they play scout, soldier or demo your opinion is moot. sniper is needed to kill this fuckers.
>>735085104If you've let people camp directly outside your spawn door you've failed as a team in this team based shooter
>>735084742I dont think an engagement against sniper should be comfortable in his ideal range, but I do believe that he should feel uncomfortable if you know where he is and are actively shooting at him.Damage falloff means he's at basically zero practical risk in that engagement. At the very least shooting at him should buy you safety from a headshot to get yourself to cover, bodyshot damage notwithstanding.Spy gets fucked over by awareness, Sniper should be too.
>>735079014snipers are OP but there's an easy fix. just add travel time and bullet drop to all projectiles.
>>735085104>instadie to sticky trap right outside of spawn door1 guy out of position on a class that has issues with self defense>instadie to soldier and his kritz medic girlfriend right outside of spawn door2 guys that spent time on building uber>instadie to spy camping the spawn doorif a spy got you while you have literally nothing else to do but be aware that's on you>instadie to sniper camping the spawn door150 damage in 0.2 seconds dealt from absolute safety
>>735084742His role shouldn't exist. A class that punishes the player for just going towards the objective is bad game design. Spy is only fine because he's shit. If he were good he would be (rightfully) as hated as sniper.
>>735085017>Have any of you people actually played a map made in the last five years?There hasn't been an official update in 5 years you stupid faggot. And old maps are great fun as long as you don't have some 10K CSGO alumni closet cheater killing you for daring to leave spawn
>>735085104>sticky trap right outside of spawn doorTakes 5-10 seconds to set up, requires the demo to be near your spawn and not defending himself, only works on one door, can be baited, you can shoot the bombs>instadie to soldier and his kritz medic girlfriend right outside of spawn doorTakes 40 full seconds to charge, if you're good you can still kill the soldier or the med, also pyro and engie can reflect or delete the rockets, respectively>instadie to spy camping the spawn doorAnd then he dies instantly to pretty much anyone of your team mates. Also can be countered by looking to the incredibly obvious spy hiding spot by the spawn door when you go out, and preferably playing with sound on so you can hear decloak>instadie to sniper camping the spawn doorHe covers every doorHe's standing outside your effective rangeEven if you hit him, it doesn't reduce his efficacyHe can shoot over and over againHis gun is hitscan, not projectileHis gun can one shot you no matter what class you are or what gear you're using except like, an overhealed FoS heavy, or using a vaccinator chargeThere's no meaningful counterplay or even a reasonable way to mitigate the threat
>>735086087>There hasn't been an official update in 5 years you stupid faggotI can't believe map development totally ceased when Valve put the game in maintenance mode and literally nothing else has been added.
>>735086868>>>addedget a load of this underage faggot
I remember Shounic or somebody else running a "what if no snipers?" experiment on a server and nothing really changed beyond people not being afraid of walking out in the open of Obvious Sniper Sightlines anymoreSeems it's mostly kneejerk outrage at being killed instantly while caught unawares, similar to Spy backstab outrage
>>735086868It basically fucking did. We get a handful of community maps each year. One we got last year is pl_aquarius, the worst fucking map in the game
>>735087156Getting killed by a spy is a skill issueYou can't do anything against sniperThe conclusion of the video you're referencing is that removing sniper didn't hurt the game balance and everyone thought the game was more fun
>>735088520Getting killed by a Sniper is also a team skill issue, he can only focus one target at a time and nearly everybody but Heavy has higher mobility than Sniper in some way
As a scout, I almost never die to snipers. Maybe it's because I'm a good scout. I like to go fast. I like to jump and do force a nature and soda popper and sandman and othersscout is good game
Yeah yeah sniper whateverWhat's the best class to disguise as for spy? Don't say scout because of the lowered hit box
>>735088727Heavy on your own team, change disguise-weapon to melee, pretend to be friendly, get free backstabsRepeat two or three times until server no longer trusts friendly Heavies
>>735087156>we asked 100 people who hate sniper how they would feel if sniper was nerfed/removed>here is their testimony after playing tf2 without sniperHis circlejerk has way too much of a bias no fucking shit theyd be in favor of it and suck his dick over presenting this bad data as gospel.
>>735088581>and nearly everybody but Heavy has higher mobility than Sniper in some wayCompletely irrelevant as the sniper has infinite range and is behind his team
>>735088953This is the usual Sniper-hate thread thing where people pretend he can magically solo an entire team and nobody will ever catch up to him under any circumstances
>Shoot back at the sniper>10 damage if it even hits unless I also pick sniper in which case I'm part of the problem
>>735088520>removing sniper didn't hurt the game balanceAckchully his conclusion was that Sniper's presence doesn't appreciably change game balance.
>>735086445>He covers every door>He's standing outside your effective range>Even if you hit him, it doesn't reduce his efficacy>He can shoot over and over again>His gun is hitscan, not projectile>His gun can one shot you no matter what class you are or what gear you're using except like, an overhealed FoS heavy, or using a vaccinator charge>There's no meaningful counterplay or even a reasonable way to mitigate the threatOnly like one and a half of these are true and unique to sniper
>>735089093A great sniper can solo the entire team yes. That's why the bots used sniper. But even just a pretty good sniper can warp the game around him, requiring outsized effort and attention to suppress. He's also profoundly fucking unfun to "fight".
>>735089194That's a different way of saying the same thing
>>735089364>A great sniper can solo the entire team yes.Sniper falls apart the instant he has to deal with more than one target which is why TEAM Fortress is not built around soloing and it's not viable unless one team is hideous garbage or the Sniper is simply cheatingThe bots fell apart if you were an Engineer because they'd prioritize your buildings, due to level 3 sentries being a hard shutdown for Sniper bots
>>735089364Except bots have 100% mechanical perfection, wall hacks and 0 ms reaction time. Why compare them with people?
>>735089473>Sniper falls apart the instant he has to deal with more than one targetOnly at close range. And guess what the guy with infinite fucking range can do? Fire from well behind his own team!
>>735089534Very good snipers functionally approach this, on top of having good positioning and game sense, unlike bots
>>735088520>You can't do anything against sniperYou've never played sniper even once or you'd know how easy it is to get completely shut down by flares, trolldiers, trimping demoknights, spies (they don't even have to cloak or disguise they can just Amby you from almost as far away as sniper's range), even engineers just pistol plinking you across the map to make you flinch.
>>735089618You act like there's no time between headshot attempts for anybody to catch up to the Sniper, or that his team is perfectly guarding him and there's simply no way to reach him. Obviously sometimes matches are fucked and you don't have enough support to even make a move, but that's not Sniper's fault, you have bigger problems than a Sniper if that's the case.
>>735079014If you have over 10k hours in a game, you should automatically be banned from it. Get a fucking life or play some other games. Kill yourselves, Hale's Own 200,000K sticky bomb launcher faggots
>>735089728The pyro shoots a projectile at you that does some damage, you shoot him with hitscan that kills him instantly. Trolldiers are a fucking meme and a good sniper will pick them out of the air. The demoman will have to get through your team and even when he gets to you, you can kill him instantly with a melee crit as easy as he can to you, which you can guarantee with jarate. Spy is a joke, sniper beats him at all ranges, just have the game audio on. >they can just Amby you from almost as far away as sniper's rangeMaybe if you're a time traveller from 2010, but the amby is shit now and almost always has been. Ironically the pistol was nerfed because it was found unfun and unfair that spy could one shot light classes with hitscan from close range. But apparently it's no big deal if sniper can one shot ANY class from ANY range!>even engineers just pistol plinking you across the map to make you flinch.Wow, engie can do 4 damage to you from a distance he can instant kill back, what a counter!>>735089735>You act like there's no time between headshot attempts for anybody to catch up to the Sniper,It's 1.5 seconds.>but that's not Sniper's fault, It absolutely is. Fuck you.
>>735089735i like to demoralize nolife limegreen discord-kitten snipers by going Vaccinator Medic and only entering their sightline with ubercharge. I know it works because they almost always complain
>>735090274Doing God's work, you'll never see a Sniper more pissed than he is against Fists of Steel + Dalokohs Bar heavies and Vaccinator medics
>>735089705>Very good snipers functionally approach this>Look up god tier neet shooters tracking medium sized targets at kovaaks in a predictable motion>66% accuracyAlso there is no way to get rid of 0.2 second reaction delay and it gets worse as you age. Game sense and positioning greatly increase your chances but success is never guaranteed, you are merely increasing your chances.
>>735079014Getting unreasonably frustrated at snipers is usually just a sign the map I'm playing on is shit. I don't truly mind snipers on good maps. They give me a fun target to anchor for.
>>735090402Hunting revolver is clearly overtuned in TF2 classic.
>>735090402If a map has to be a retarded labyrinth to accomidate the class, the class is the problem
>>735090483Just a bit, but it doesn't instakill me so it doesn't rustle my jimmies.
>>735090483Hunting Revolver is basically perfect imo
valve added damage falloff for a reason, getting killed from across the map with no way of knowing (the dot is useless) isnt fun
>>735090571Machina's tracer rounds should be a default Sniper feature
>>735090557It's way more consistent than sniper rifle in 99% of TF2 situations despite circlejerk here claiming TF2 is 99% open maps. Also 150 hp is god send. It's like ambassador on steroids.
>>735090528It has to be a retarded labyrinth to accomodate for engineer nests as well, they're both problem classes in that regard.
>>73507901450k hour spy is still going to get killed by the nature of being melee and sometimes players just not moving in a logical sense you can anticipate50k hour scout can still be cock blocked by sentries 50k hour soldier can still get overwhelmed due to the smaller magazine of rocketsThe only class that has that 50k hour statement ring true is sniper and maybe demoman
>>735090261>The pyro shoots a projectile at you that does some damage, you shoot him with hitscan that kills him instantly.Not if he hit you with that flare. It's like a 1 in 100 you can make a shot while on fire.>Trolldiers are a fucking meme and a good sniper will pick them out of the air.A good solider might get a good trolldier occasionally.>The demoman will have to get through your teamDid you miss the "trimping" part?>and even when he gets to you, you can kill him instantly with a melee crit as easy as he can to you, which you can guarantee with jarate.It takes time to switch to Jarate, throw it, switch to melee, then swing. A demoknight who's just landed right next to you has plenty of time to kill you.>Wow, engie can do 4 damage to you from a distance he can instant kill back, what a counter!The engie can't kill the sniper but he can keep him from sniping effectively.
>>735085104All of those are balanced by setup, charging, and downtime mechanics. The sniper doesn't have to wait for any such mechanics. There is nothing stopping him from landing headshot after headshot over and over again 5 seconds apart, besides his own skill. That's it. There's a reason bots use sniper, because it's the most disruptive, and bots expose the skill ceiling for being absolutely absurd.It was fine in the early days of TF2, since the skill requirement actually functioned properly as a mitigating factor. Now in 2026 there are sweaty arm-aiming snipers who have custom crosshairs and practice aim flicks in dedicated training software for 4 hours a day and they are common enough within the playerbase to have one or two of them in the majority of community servers you join. You can work together as a team and overcome them, sure, but that only matters to the extent that you care about winning the game over having fun, because you will not be having much fun when half of your lives end in unceremonious deletion before you can even engage, even when you eventually win because a team full of snipers has no real stopping power. They don't particularly care about that though, they care about killing you and getting their killstreaks in.
TF2 is an unbalanced game and that's fine.
>50k hr soldier main needs to master rocket jumping, juggling, roaming etc. to be at his most effective>50k hr Sniper main needs to master aim labs to be at his most effective
>>735090690If a map is wide open shoot the sentry from range. If the map is clostraphobic, hit the sentry from around a corner or floor or cieling. If all else fails, use uber, it charges faster than a nest is set up. Also, while spy sucks dick against sniper, he's not bad against engie
>>735090754That's because spy is the worst class and scout is sorta map/gamemode dependent. Scout's power is greatly over exaggerated by 6v6 comp mode and pubstombing scunts. Very similar to sniper. I am not claiming sniper and scout are useless they are just not all powerful all arounder v claims to be.
>>735090996Also soldier is rather weak class. Demoman and heavy mogs him hard.
>>735079981>Provides 8 seconds of invulnerability to himself and (1) one other teammate at the cost of a 40 second charging time>vs.>The ability to instantly delete five out of the nine classes at any range with the only limitations being 1.7 seconds in between each shot and it requires a sight-line>These are comparable issues
>>735090785>It's like a 1 in 100 you can make a shot while on fire.It doesn't affect aim that much>A good solider might get a good trolldier occasionally.A good sniper fucking shuts down soldiers trying to have fun rocket jumping>Did you miss the "trimping" part?He still has to get to whatever ramp he wants to throw himself from, and after he lands, he's slower than you>A demoknight who's just landed right next to you has plenty of time to kill you.I suppose if you just weren't fucking paying attention to him at all, but a good sniper has eyes and would take evasive maneuvers and start switching weapons. Or if they're REALLY good, just kill him point blank with a headshot.>The engie can't kill the sniper but he can keep him from sniping effectively.No, he can't. Flinch from getting plinked at beyond effective range barely does anything
>>735090807>Now in 2026 there are sweaty arm-aiming snipers who have custom crosshairs and practice aim flicks in dedicated training software for 4 hours a day and they are common enough within the playerbase to have one or two of them in the majority of community servers you joinAlso much more sophisticated closet cheaters. Not that they can't play other clssses, but it's the biggest deal on sniper
>>735090828Unbalance isn't good when it's anti-fun
>>735089534Because the bots showcase the hypothetical maximum skill ceiling of a class, and sniper stood alone at having no mechanics that inherently limit him.
>noo you can't learn how to play effectively you cheated!stay salty n00bs lol
>>735091414Tf2 sniper was meant to be piloted by humans with severe limitations not robots.>>735090328
I have never heard a spy decloak, I don't even know what it sounds like. I've seen spies decloak in front of me and I didn't hear anything. I almost don't believe they even make a sound but it's either I'm deaf to the decloak noise or everyone else is making shit up.
>>735091459>learn to play effectively>stand in one spot and click on guys (they die instantly and cannot possibly attack you back unless they change class and attempt to flank you)unless you're one of those mid-range brawl snipers who use good positioning (standing in the same corner every other sniper stands in is not good positioning), you didn't really learn much, you just got better at doing literally one thing
>>735091603Play with headphones, its a very distinct wooshing sound.Hell you can even hear sounds that the spy makes while cloaked like footsteps, weapon switching, and disguising.
>>735091531Complete non-sequitur. Care to address the main point?
>>735091232>It doesn't affect aim that muchI don't know what to tell you except you're completely wrong.>and after he lands, he's slower than youNot by enough to matter. Hell, a demoknight with enough heads is practically moving scout speed.>but a good sniper has eyes and would take evasive maneuvers and start switching weaponsSo, not sniping? Letting the rest of your team close in?
I encourage everyone here to join a no-sniper server and form your own opinion. It's a completely different game. There's a lot more teamfighting around the objective.
>>735091840>robot can lift 10 tons so humans can hypothetically do the sameA proper research on hypothetical fps aiming of a human would be neat but you have to trust my word for now. It's kinda hard to gauge this if you didn't go into rabbit hole yourself.
>>7350920496s does exactly this and its way harder for sniper to make plays when everyone is super mobile and has overheal.The fact that the enemy team also has active comms means the moment they know where you are they are going to mercilessly bomb you into the stone age because sniper has no mobility.It only comes out as a consistent offclass where a safe sightline exists to charge up a shot from close to spawn so you can switch back to soldier/scout if needed.Meanwhile highlander is a format of everyone waiting around until the sniper gets a pick. How this shitty format ever got traction is a fucking joke.
>>735091459*roleplays for hundreds of posts that sniper will always shoot and hit*
>>735079014I have over 1000 hours as SniperThis screenshot pretty much sums up how I play Sniper
>>735092748Yeah but no one but friendless compfags wants to play with half or 3/4ths of a team
>>735096245Its fun to play pick up games with some modestly skilled players. Its a bit like an elevated pub with comms but I couldnt be bothered playing for a leagueI miss the old community servers I used to frequent, simply having comms at all is a huge boon for being able to enjoy the game at all, regardless of if there are stakes.
>>735081354>btw I'm a CS playerI could tell from your third world grasp of English, you didn't have to say it just outright
>>735090807>You can work together as a team and overcome them, sure, but that only matters to the extent that you care about winning the game over having fun, because you will not be having much fun when half of your lives end in unceremonious deletion before you can even engage, even when you eventually win because a team full of snipers has no real stopping power. They don't particularly care about that though, they care about killing you and getting their killstreaks in./thread
