They don't think it be like that but it do.

>>735616851
True. Left wants to have fun with the game, right plays it only because he was told it was a classic, but he's clearly not vibing with it. Or, he went into it with a negative mindset, expecting a shitty game, so he will not allow himself to have fun, because he'd have to admit he was wrong.

>>735616851
It's not the player's job to find their own fun. It is the job of the game designer to put the fun in there.

Fun cannot be tangential; it has to be the core component of the game experience. The the fun part also needs to be a good strategy.

That said, Mario 64 is actually a good example of this, as it rewards you for doing all the sick movement stuff.

>>735616851
left = high energy
right = low energy
left = playing correct game
right = playing wrong game
it's really that simple
imagine a hypercasual mobile game player hopping on an obscure fighting game and complaining it's too hard
gamers need to be more aware of the target audiences for the games they're playing
if you play games like the clip on the right, games like disco elysium or baba is you would be better
if you play games like the clip on the left, games like call of duty or overwatch would be better
it's asinine how people simply assume all games will give them the same experience and then complain when a 3d platformer doesn't have as strong of a narrative as the telltale walking dead games

>>735616974
>It's not the player's job to find their own fun

It's an interactive medium so to a certain extent it is. A designer can lead a gamer to water but it can't make it drink

>>735616851
DMC2

>>735616851
Why does everyone speak in ebonics here?

>>735617082
Literally the purpose of game design is getting gamers to drink, that's why games like RDR2 get shit for failing the player for not playing "properly" instead of being designed in a way that naturally makes the player play the right way i.e the natural way being the most fun and encouraged way

>>735616851
I'll answer genuinely.
If that webm's argument is literally "why don't you hop around in Mario" then it's stupid, if a game needs what's basically a fidget button for the dead time I'd say that's a design flaw.
If the argument is "people judge a game without truly learning its systems, taking any hard time they had by not instantly knowing the optimal play as a fault of the game" then yeah, that happens all the time.

>>735617132
We cumin fo u YT boy,we got Mo muscles Mo intelligent bigga dix u woman up on us matter of time we president now

Honestly though, probably just because people have fun being silly on the internet

>>735617490
>matter of time we president now
they alr do did been tha president altho.

File: dreams.webm (3.93 MB, 640x360)

3.93 MB WEBM

If "make your own fun" was a legitimate game design decision then Dreams and Unity would win Game of the Year ever year

Since they don't, we can conclude that "make your own fun" is cope invented by fans of inferior games trying to justify their game's bad design by appealing to their own obsession with those games that make them seek out any way of extracting fun from a specific game instead of moving on to games that are more fun by themselves

>>735617297
>RDR2 get shit for failing the player for not playing "properly"
this is not a real criticism and RDR2 is a universally acclaimed game. do not take contrarians who are mad about objectives in a video game seriously

>>735616851
I don't like 3D platformers, simple as.

>>735617115
good example because in fact you can't do the left side of the webm, the game just forces you to not have fun

>>735617559
Ya u rite bra I'm finna bussin my "we president now" reference not so chronologically appropriate N E Mo knawmsayin

>>735616851
That's not how I play games though, for me, I autistically explore every nook and cranny in a game world.

>>735616851
i don't think this applies to most games, but mario 64 is one where people get mad at the controls after 30 seconds of fiddling without actually learning anything

>>735616965
Fucking this. Especially
>so he will not allow himself to have fun, because he'd have to admit he was wrong.
is literal poison to discussions. People rather than finding truth or being honest, fucking lie to themselves and people around them just to try and feel like "winning". People marry their opinions to the point it becomes impossible to convince them otherwise.
Like even in cases where they are misinformed or plain wrong, no matter how much proof you throw at them or try to see a thing from a different perspective, they refuse to change their mind or admit they were wrong. At best they stop replying, at worst they keep derailing, deflecting, or go the "lel i was just trolling xd" route.

>>735616974
Correct. It's easy to find your own fun in a game. It's the same kind of justification as "it's fun with friends" no shit retard everything is. A game is supposed to be an experience crafted to be engaging and enjoyable. If I have to do all the work of making it entertaining myself, why the hell am I paying you $80+tip?

>>735616851
>>735616902
Has anyone really been far even as decided to use even go want to do look more like?

The worst thing social media did was make discussion a viable hobby.

Mario is a baby game

>>735617773
>appropriate N E Mo knawmsayin
The la li lu le lo? Yeah, I understand.

>>735616851
I don't see how jumping on flat surface make it more fun.
It make game more like shit cus you need to jump like a fucking mentally retarted person. Running should always be the fastest way to move on ground.

>>735618198
Your opinions are stupid.

>>735616851
left is artificial jumpslop

Look at how many A presses that nigga wasted.

>>735616851
It does well to capture the fact that anons absolutely hate engaging in discussions but are addicted to the idea of winning an argument, so rather than actually engage with what people are talking about, they'll imagine whatever they can in their best attempt to invalidate what other people are talking about.

Someone disagrees on whether a game is good or bad? Then uh actually they obviously had to play it in the worst way or that they actually suck or some other thing that makes it so I don't actually have to care about what they're actually saying, QED!

The worst part is that niggers are so addicted to winning arguments that they can't even handle normal discussions anymore. Any form of disagreement is an argument to won. Anyone of a different opinion implicitly wants to argue it. Worst of all, if there's a lack of an opponent, then they'll just schizo in someone else as totally obsessing over them and MALDING that [THING]CHADS are WINNING!!!!!!!

It's absolutely contemptible. Personally, I blame twitter tourists that have flooded in over the past 10 years. Their website breeds this sort of contentiousness and retardation.

>>735618482
>A

>B

>C

>D

File: betterman.jpg (308 KB, 1408x768)

308 KB JPG

I think the key is gameplay
nobody like just holding up
imagine if that scene from onions of war game where you have to carry a log/boar and walk for 10 mins listen to story expositions
instead let him doing some skateboarding down the hill during all that time where you can do flips and shits
something like this image I just slop up

or at least make it funny
everyone shit their pants when kojima made you climb up the ladder for 5 mins listen to SNAKE EATER

File: gamesux.webm (2.3 MB, 960x480)

2.3 MB WEBM

>>735616851
>just make you're own fun!!!
I shan't.

>>735618886
me when rp walking

File: 1774355513954.webm (3.94 MB, 1332x750)

3.94 MB WEBM

>>735616851
That Nier Automata forces you to play like the geriatric on the right. No enemy, boss or anything in the game really makes good use of 2B or that twink's combat options. If the movement was snappier and combo options plentiful, it could've been a great game. Alas it's dragged down by jarpig design philosophy.

>>735617457
It's not really fair to say it's just fidgeting, left gets to the door faster, using your movement options rewards you by getting around faster.
In a sense the player on the left is more skillful, while the one on the right might as well have turned the game on for the first time.

>>735616965
>>735617919
These right here.
I know a few people irl who are exactly like this too, feels like people who can actually objectively review/play something with an open mindset virtually do not exist. There's always a beforehand bias and it's the exact same shit with trying to discuss movies.

>>735619139
It's dragged down by being piss easy so you just roll over everything past the start of the game.

>>735616851
I have only ever done one playthrough of a game arbitrarily putting rules on myself. If a game can't grip me with its rules, it's shite.

>>735619139
and if you want to stick around for the story you have to replay the same exact thing over and over

Its a bit funny because as a kid I could spend countless of time playing demos like Freedom Force that was just a single stage, or kicking the can to get money in Megaman Legends for a long time.
But I barely even did any actual stuff in Megaman Legends, explored maybe 20% of the game, while if I played the game today I would probably try and do everything.

Same with Black and White, could fool around at the first world for countless of hours, but never really played the game.

>>735616851
false equivolency
left is not just more engaging but also more efficient
the breath of the wild shittery it was made in response too tried to defend slowly, awkwardly attaching lego pieces together when it is not only the same level of engagement as just walking somewhere but also objectively less efficient unless you premake some simple as fuck hovercraft

>>735616851
What if right doesn't fully know all the controls yet though?

>>735619938
Right is playing more efficiently and is well on his way to a low A press run.

>>735619139
Having to play as that twink made me drop the game, made combat feel like pulling nails.

>>735616974
This is retarded. Videogames aren't passive media. The player can take actions that make the game more or less fun. Player skill is also a huge factor, shitters won't have fun with a game they can't beat.

>>735616851
But how many half-A presses are they doing?

>>735617568
LBP and Mario Maker did win GOTY awards.

>>735619315
I had friends like this growing up. If you ever recommended them a game or showed them something they'd go out of their way to play like the right side to spite you. Vivid memories of having a group over to ptry Halo splitscreen and one kid just spinning in circles complaining "the fov is bad" and "the movement is clunky" before going back to playing Patapon on his PSP.

File: TOTK.png (172 KB, 2091x897)

172 KB PNG

>>735619938
Zelda had the reverse problem where people optimized the fun out of the game.

File: unh-63-stop-that.jpg (174 KB, 488x680)

174 KB JPG

>>735617082
The game designer just has to make it so the game incentivizes you to drink. The fun way to play the game has also to be a better way of playing the game. Very few people will go out of their way to make the game unfun for no gain; they do it because oftentimes, unfun tactics are optimal, meaning that you play the game "better" it becomes a worse experience.

When the players sit down to play a game, there's an implied promise from the game designer that if they do what the game tells them to do, it will be fun. So most players will do whatever the game tells them to do to achieve the desired goal (usually win), even if that thing isn't fun.

An example I usually talk about in this sort of conversation is Magic the Gathering. In a joke expansion it released some years ago, it had all sorts of goofy cards. Stuff that made the player bawk like a chicken, dexterity tests like throwing a card representing a wrestler on top of another card to destroy it, etc. It was a joke set so players could have fun and goof off.

One such joke mechanic was "gotcha," basically cards that returned to your hand after being played if the opponent did something, like laughing, flicking your cards, or saying specific words.

So, correct way to avoid falling prey to gotcha cards was to stop doing things. Stop talking, stop moving around, stop laughing. The set designed to encourage Magic being fun had a mechanic that actively discouraged you actually doing things that you would do if you wanted to have fun. You can probably have fun with gotcha cards if you don't care about winning and just go "haha, you got me!" but that's not going to win you the game, and players want to win.

>>735620253
based patapon enjoyer

>>735616851
YO DIS GAME NIGGERBABBLE DAWG

>>735620091
You disagreed with the guy and then laid out more points explaining why his theory that good game dev is about making it easier for the player to make fun choices is correct.

>>735620294
Even if you do incentivize the player to play the game correctly, that doesn't mean they will.
>Very few people will go out of their way to make the game unfun for no gain
But what is "fun" for one player is different for another. I don't think it's fun to use mimic tear in Elden Ring, but some people love it. There isn't a one-size-fits-all definition of fun. The developers put mimic tear in the game and trusted the player with the responsibility of making their own fun by using it or not.

>>735617919
>>735616965
this is what happened with starfield on this board

>>735616974
>>735617965
>>735617297
>>735620573
Any player can actively make the most fun games of all time suck just by being deliberately obstinate.
You can boot up DOOM right now and deliberately play like a stubborn mule to annihilate any fun from orbit.

This is the same as comedy, where you have to want to have fun to have fun.
I could teleport you back in time to a prime Richard Pryor show right now and if you wanted, you could make it utterly miserable for yourself and others with a tiny amount of effort.

>>735620618
Using mimic tear is a tactic to make you win, and some players will find that tactic fun, but it's not the ONLY viable tactic. There are other (fun) tactics. If the SOLE OPTIMAL way of fighting bosses was, say, to stand in a corner they can't reach and spam a homing spell and you'd most likely get your ass kicked if you tried to bring anything else, we would rightfully call this bad game design, because the thing the game is incentivizing you to do is miserable.

Here is the thing; doing fun things should be good. The fun experience shouldn't be hidden from the player. Learning parry timings in a sword duel game should be fun as well as good, because players are guided to the optimal tactic, the tactic that lets them do "well" in the game. The game designer's job is to leave the fun out there in the open for the player to find; if you have to deliberately bend the game in half to find any fun, why not play a game that is just fun from the get go?

The game designer's job is to make sure that the winning tactics are generally fun to use.

>>735620889
Yep. A big component of enjoying a media object is to give yourself permission to enjoy it

>>735616851
I can't see how left is any different than right on a gameplay perspective, they both accomplish the same thing, except left had to press more buttons for no reason
Jumping doesn't make a game more fun

File: mario.webm (3.42 MB, 640x448)

3.42 MB WEBM

>>735616851
fuck you I play how I want

>>735620889
>Any player can actively make the most fun games of all time suck just by being deliberately obstinate.
>You can boot up DOOM right now and deliberately play like a stubborn mule to annihilate any fun from orbit.
All games have affordances and most have incentive structures and those things guide the ways that people will interact with them. Your job as a game designer is to make sure that guidance is towards having the most fun possible (or whatever the "intended experience" is).

To put it simply; fun tactics should be viable, and the game should actively reward you for doing the fun thing.

>>735617919
This isn't just limited to video games, 4chan has this effect on everything, including politics. The world is the way it is becaus narcissistic disingenuous fucks want everything to suck instead of admitting they were ever wrong about something.

>>735621079
Mario if he white

>>735621079
based immersion enjoyer

>>735621079
>Birds with actual shadows flying around
Soul

File: 1750117136176007.png (1.19 MB, 2000x1600)

1.19 MB PNG

>>735617919
I actually wanna add to my post now because anon's >>735620253
> Vivid memories of having a group over to ptry Halo splitscreen and one kid just spinning in circles complaining "the fov is bad" and "the movement is clunky" before going back to playing Patapon on his PSP.
is very telling. It is like, and this is me just throwing shit to try and understand, that some people have some very stupid reason for trying to dislike a game. Like this isn't even a "haha u stupid" because they easily recognize that behavior from others, its just them being blind
>"I have been made fun of x group for playing y genre/game. Now I will actively dislike x group games!"
See consolewarriors or even genre warriors. And maybe anon's patapon kid.
Hell, I even have bias against modern shooters because I like og Doom1&2 + TF2 much more.
But what I think quite many on /v/ and in general "gamer" audience thinks is
>"I am not instantly good at this game even when I am a 'gamer' and play lots of vidya. This game must be bad or overrated or clunky or janky or-"
I think on /v/ it is at it's worst sometimes because anons REALLY pretend they are the biggest gamers and everyone else have bad taste and games they themselves play are great and they are good at them. Someone who has been playing ASSFAGGOTS, modern FPS, action-adventure a la Sony exclusive*, and some light-strategy games is put to play a classic 3D platformer.
Now this anon remembers seeing all the clips of speedrunners doing their stuff, tries to imitate even a bit or finds controls new and something they gotta learn.
Can't do "press x to awesome"? Game must be bad. Especially after failing moderately difficult jump 3 times in a row even when there is an easier path for people who are getting used to controls or new to vidya.
But anon is good at games.
This is supposed to be baby easy game.
This game is bad and overrated and dated and janky and-

You get the idea
Maybe one day anons can act like adults and have fun
2000 yay

>>735621079
This is probably how an old person that learns to play vidya for the first time would play.

>>735621082
Right but anyone can make anything not fun by being a stick-in-the-mud or even just having an awful sense of participation or engagement

>unbiased vs shitendo fangoy

>>735621079
How can one mario do something so controversial yet brave?

File: 1768295841911622.png (259 KB, 596x542)

259 KB PNG

>>735616965
>so he will not allow himself to have fun, because he'd have to admit he was wrong.
Despair inducing sentence

>>735621468
Yes, but most players aren't going to deliberately ignore what the game is pushing them to do and rewarding them for doing for no reason but to make the experience worse for themselves.

A game should point the player towards the most fun road, and make sure that road is well-paved. If some sicko decides to run off the road and into the desert, then they can do that, but it's likely not wise to design any game for the market of people who despise themselves and want to waste their time repeatedly slamming their head against a brick wall for no gain.

>>735621162
People marry their opinions and/or curiosity and seeking for the truth seems to be dead.
But yeah, snarky attitude, obsession on being always correct, and then relying on sarcasm before just throwing insults nonstop is way too common.

>>735620618
>Even if you do incentivize the player to play the game correctly, that doesn't mean they will.
Players, on aggregate, will find the winning strategies; and if they're not having fun doing so, the game is flawed.

>>735621692
>but it's likely not wise to design any game for the market of people who despise themselves and want to waste their time repeatedly slamming their head against a brick wall for no gain
I wish gacha wasn't so profitable

>>735616851
There's a reason we make fun of the retards on the left with "bing bing wahoo"
"me press button me havi fun :-DDD"
brainss troglodyte

>>735616965
I have fallen into the habit of this.

Mainly playing safe tedious playstyles that mitigate risk to a minimun.

>>735621770
Gacha isn't a good example of this, because it rewards you for doing the intended experience, but that experience is not "having fun" but rather "roll a lot." Everything in a gacha game is designed to incentivize you towards rolling the gacha, and it succeeds quite well at that task.

>>735621796
A good game should punish this. But shareholders don't like punishing players for playing a certain way.

>>735621887
I'd say that makes it an inherently flawed genre.

>>735621468
Then you just don't play.
The difference is that a bad game is not fun on the basic core level. Good game is designed to make every simple interaction fun and incentivizing player to engage and even making sure that boring/tedious strategies are not efficient.

>>735620956
This doesn't apply at all to RPGs or any game with significant player choice. I've had a ton of fun playing Morrowind while restricting myself from using magic for roleplaying purposes.

>>735621952
Absolutely, you won't see me disagree on that. Being a gacha causes untold damage to any game because it will mean grinding and the worst of the live service model and braindead trivialized mechanics to ensure grinding goes more smoothly and can be repeated over and over without the need for thought, that plus constant powercreep. There is nothing worse for a series then the devs suddenly deciding to do a gacha.

>>735622098
Because the non-magic tactics are still playable and fun. If Morrowind had everything but magic scale terribly, making all enemies damage sponges, you'd probably not have much fun with that particular restriction.

>>735622098
A proper roleplaying game wouldn't make you restrict yourself from using magic even though your character is capable of it, it would have you create a character that is restricted from using magic.

>>735616851
Gaming is about fantasy. Why would I play a game where I touch grass and walk through doors when I can do those things in real life? (I just choose not to.)

File: sonicgamers_6.webm (1.83 MB, 1280x480)

1.83 MB WEBM

and you wonder why Sonic 06 got 5/10s....

oh oh

Have you guys played Fatal Labyrinth? I played it blind and went full autist, imaging myself taking every step and slashing beholders and shit every step of the way, and it was fucking awesome

If you just watch someone play the game it looks boring

>>735621082
That has nothing to do with the OP, which is when given free rein, one side wants to have fun and so plays with the game mechanics, and the other doesn't want to have fun and stubbornly refuses to engage unless absolutely forced and would implicitly do the bare minimum at all time past that point.
There is no way of fixing the latter.

>>735622593
Yeah, that's fair, but I feel that kind of person is an obvious minority. There's no saving you if you deliberately go out of your way to make your game unfun.

In fact, as I said initially, Mario 64 is a very good example of a game with good incentive structures; engaging with Mario's movement tools will get you to the castle quicker (thus being the optimal tactic) and the sound and visual design make it feel satisfying. If you don't jump in Mario you will never get anywhere, and if you hop, throw yourself around, ground pound and walljump you will complete stages better and quicker.

>>735622593
Mario 64 sucks at forcing players to actually interacting with the movement system, it's far too easy with the basic movement

The "make your own fun" argument was invented to try to salvage this design failure

File: 1771753814344477.png (90 KB, 381x355)

90 KB PNG

>>735616851
I find every game bad.

>>735616851
Life for the mentally disabled must indeed be care free.

>>735622891
Why are you playing them then? Go do crack or something.

>>735622891
Well yeah, you're on /v/

>>735616851
Mostly not true because modern vidya is not gameplay focused like early platformers or oldschool Arcade games. Most games that the faggots on here play are cutscene and dialogue heavy and padded to shit. The people who say this game is lit are mostly casual faggots that love to consume slop.
So it's more like 5% instead of 90%.

Unicorn Overlord

>>735616974
You can lead a retard to fun, but you can't make him play

>>735622065
>>735621692
Players can be too stupid for the game or have an all around bad attitude that can ruin even the best of games. This is not a statement for or against the importance of good game design, so hush, you

>>735622872
I am so glad i dont live in stupid world with you

>>735622769
Would be a good game designer.
>>735622872
Would NOT be a good game designer.

I should never have to impose limitations on myself just to have fun. Anytime that's required, then your game suffers for it. If you give me 50 weapons, but one is clearly better than all of them, then I'm gonna dislike the game even if I impose the limitation to not use that one OP weapon. It was your job to make everything balanced, and you failed.

>>735625782
I dont worry about things like that and its been great

>>735621079
if you never played like this after a long session, or just after finishing the game, and knowing you'll never boot it up ever again, you're not white

>>735625919
For 70-80 dollars a pop, some of us have standards. Release your game for free, and then I'll "make my own fun".

>>735616974
If there wasn't a wrong way to play, losing wouldn't be an option.

>>735617132
Where the fuck do you see ebonics in OP?

>>735625919
You can have fun that way, but you're giving too much credit to the game developers when you are, essentially, building on their work to make a game that's more fun.

>>735626040
>throws on other problems unrelated to the issue at hand
There’s no reason to be irritated there are other weapon offerings than your favorite

I'm old enough to realize that arguing about video games is a huge waste of time. Life is short enough as is and I havent beaten a lot of video games. Just play video games you have fun with and talk about them but wasting time on games you dont enjoy is just boring and lame. I dont know why this board is always obsessed with bad vide games they clearly dislike when they could just playing fun video games instead.

>>735616851
But 90% of people who played Mario 64 played it like on the right. Left is nothing but speedtranny brainrot.

>>735626126
Giving too much credit to the game devs for using the weapon i like and not being bothered there are other weapons?

>>735621079
Shockingly, shamelessly based.

>>735626181
Why are the other weapons there? Bad game design.

>>735626178
No. You honestly have to be more careful with the controls to play boring, than the average player who is learning the controls the whole game (this is the purpose and challenge of a video game by the way, you guys always forget)

>>735626128
Except for the fact that I gave the devs money for a shoddy job. An unbalanced weapon is no better than a game breaking glitch, or abysmally low framerate.

>>735616851
SM64 is still bad because the camera is shit

>>735621330
It also works in reverse.
A friend of mine became the biggest ccp-cocksucker imaginable and genuinely believes genshit is one of the best games ever created. He has become so pro-china that every single shitty chink game he plays will have all of its flaws completely ignored, that includes genshit as well.

>>735626245
For if other people like them or if theres some cool combo or use for them i havent or wont find
Your logic is nonsense. Even the principal that useless optional content makes a game worse, is wrong. Just concise writing OCD where it doesnt belong,

>>735626271
Listen at the $70 price there are higher standards but extra weapons that dont interest you are in absolutely no way shape or form a bad feature

File: 1754444240915699.webm (2.71 MB, 960x540)

2.71 MB WEBM

AYO DIS LIT SENPAI FR FR *long streak of aggressive niggerbabble*

>>735616851
Mario 64 is cia brainwashing. They were right off the cusp of global warfare and needed soldiers. You might notice how you become extremely angry while playing Mario 64, and might feel impulses to purchase firearms, or to go enlist for your army. It’s all intentional, the cia works with extra terrestrials while designing their mass produced plastic. Violent video games like Mario 64 were used to control our civilization into one of killing.

>>735616851
BLACK men playing videogames vs whitebois playing videogames

>>735626353
If there is no reason to use any other weapon than this one because it's objectively the best, then they have no reason to be in the game. It's pointless.
>For if other people like them
That just makes it worse. You're saying they have to intentionally gimp themselves to make the game fun.
Bad game design.

>>735617132
because this board is 80% brown zoomers

>>735626413
It is their job to make sure the weapons don't break the experience. Using them shouldn't trivialize the game. If I have to fix that by imposing restrictions, then it's a problem.

Why is it a problem? Consider that most companies despise people romhacking and modding their games, not without express written consent. Especially Nintendo, they even hate the concept of a nuzlocke run because you're "not playing it the intended way". So if I have to fix the game myself, then it conflicts with their previous stance.

So hey, tell you what. I'll be more than happy to "make my own fun" and "ignore the game's problems", but in return Nintendo has to embrace romhacking, emulation, piracy, and modding. Since they clearly want me to fix their problems for them.

>>735626642
>things i dont do in a game are pointless
>and if something in the game is just there without a reason, its shit
I get your reasoning, its just not correct. Nice as some higher concept evaluation of gestalt or what it means for something to be wholly complete nothing more nothing less, metaphysical stuff really, but in reality it simply doesn’t apply. Like getting mad a grocery store offers other groceries you wouldn’t buy

>>735626692
Well if the game is too easy because of the weapon that’s one thing, if its just there best weapon and the game is fun then theres no problem

>>735626808
It's absolutely correct. You can like a shit game, but judging it objectively, it's shit.
>Like getting mad a grocery store offers other groceries you wouldn’t buy
More like why would a grocery store offer shit alongside food.

>>735626856
If it can be trivialized and have all the challenge sucked out, that doesn't seem fun.

>>735626856
The* best weapon

>>735626692
Nintendo removing romhacks was mostly for show. It was designed by the cia as a type of distraction, they have many distractions in their handbook. Anyone with above room temperature iq will tell you, removing roms from the internet was not even remotely feasible. They aren’t stupid, they wouldn’t spend all that money on lawyers for something that was a sure loss. It’s actually just designed to give your brain a sense of “dey took muh toy away!!! Grrrr”. I’m completely serious, remember anita sarkeesian or whatever that redit bitch was. That was another cia plant. They do the same thing over and over lol. The world. Half the people outside are dying in the street. They need to be creative with how they handle it. We are living under a shadow empire. They just hide it, look around this is actually a “civilization”. There are actually “rulers”. And, we’ve seen both of these concepts be destroyed several times thru out history already. It is very hard to maintain control of monkeys who want to slaughter you for any little mistake. I also want them dead, and to watch our cities burn. Then the ashes will spring anew a new civilization, free from satanic influence in the gaming industry.

>>735626692
This is just sheer entitlement. I'm very happy to know voices like yours are ignored for being ultimately annoying.

>>735626876
So if Ninja Gaiden II had a couple more weapons that were bad, it’d be shit, right? You don’t even believe this stuff yourself, dumbass

>>735620287
I use the hoverbike but have the attitude of the guy on the right side. I just find the hoverbike super fun to use. And I discovered how to make it myself before it became a common knowledge meta thing.

File: 2018worldcup.jpg (232 KB, 960x960)

232 KB JPG

>nu-cod players
>full on zoomer core tac sprint slide and aim assist all over the place

>boomer cod players (me)
>never sprint, always walk
>check those corners
>always first to land a hit on a zoomer that comes running around a corner
>yet somehow the zoomer always guns me down first

>>735627085
It'd objectively be a worse game.

File: 1690847401656.png (63 KB, 218x221)

63 KB PNG

Player freedom is essential. Simon Says game design isn't fun. Yes all games need rules and limitations of course, but endlessly replayable games tend to have one thing in common: player expression and a high degree of personalization. Tons of indie games fall into the midwit trap that they need to twist the hand of the player for them to have fun, but the best games merely encourage fun playstyles

>>735627046
>this is just sheer entitlement
Um, yes? I literally gave them money, so I'm entitled to the experience that I want. Again you could just release your game for free, and then you'd be exempt from criticism.

>>735627158
And you know what I actually agree, trimming is better, but to take such a marginal idea of ‘worse’ and make it your official rule about what ‘is shit’, i mean we saw you were a hyperbolic person from the beginning

>>735617568
>>735620227
I feel like the more limited sandbox games are, the more fun they can be, because with limits to rest on, making something fun is easier to make. Notice how Dreams allows you to go in basically any direction, but LBP and Mario Maker are gameplay-wise, mostly based around moving on a 2D plane? (I know LBP has multiple layers but for the most part you'll be moving on 2 axises for most of it) Somehow, it feels like if it's too open, it starts to suck, because making things becomes too technical and then you end up with a lot of slop games.
Also, Dreams had no campaign at all, so there wasn't much opportunity to "learn" with the engine, unlike LBP and to a lesser extent Mario Maker, which had official levels to go with it.

>>735627323
Sure but could you use your language a little better instead of shouting ‘its all shit!’ when you see a sword you dont like?

>>735627136
They use call of duty to train you. Its actually pretty funny if you look at these places in the world that are engaging is war, try to find the media that was released like 5 years before the war started. And, it’s all like heavily encouraging killing and stealing and gaslighting you calling you poor and saying you’ll never reproduce or marry a girl. Both sides of wars are controlled by the same people, they just like to slaughter humans for their demonic overlords. Hey this is pretty fucked up lol.

>>735623608
You cant "ruin" a well designed game - unfun strategies should be simply non-viable, and if you dont want to engage with it you just don't play.
Thats the fundamental difference between say a platformer - where the movement is main gameplay and its a fun challenge and every bit of the game is designed around it - and a walking sim where you can jump, but don't need to.

>just make your own fun bro
Why buy video games, read books, or watch movies when you can simply imagine yourself having a good time?

>>735627494
Does that hurt the feelings of the multi-billion dollar corporation? Are they incapable of understanding the critique because some mean words were said?

Instead of saying "it killed my interest in the game" should I instead say "it unalived my interest" so it's more friendly to their algorithm?

>>735627517
No you can literally play the best game in the world with a bad temper, annoyed someone asked you to enjoy it, low hand eye coordination, or poor sense of game participation, and hate it. Come on man dont be absolute. You know or can imagine somebody who would hate the best game in the world, and you can imagine the man who would appreciate it the most. Now imagine all in between

Alright TJ """"""Henry"""""" Yoshi

>>735616965
Honestly, I went into bananza thinking it was going to suck ass and I had fun with it, but most of the time I don't enjoy the games that much.
Personally I have several genres I just already know I won't like, and lo and behold, when I give a game in those genres an honest try I don't like them, happened several times already.

>>735627690
No, i dont say any of this in their defense at all. Im saying you’re exaggerating what you’re trying to say, to the point of it not being what you mean anymore. I know you’re mad at some shitty $70 game, that doesnt mean Cave Story is shit for having the bubbler

>>735627419
But it's rarely just that devs create a great game with a couple of superfluous options, because it's indicative of a deeper issue, and that is that they think giving the player options at all is itself the point. Those who realise that the point is instead to make what the player does interesting would know better than to include superfluous options.

>>735620689
Starfield is Bethesda slop, even Todd Howard said its slow and boring.

>>735627824
But its really not the existence of these additional irrelevant weapons that makes a game shit at all, is it?

>>735627803
Cave Story is freeware, so I can excuse quite a large number of flaws. That's literally one of the points made in an earlier post. If they suddenly charged 70 dollars and didn't fix a damn thing, then it would be a problem, which is why the Cave Story+ remake is just worse overall.

>>735628182
There are so many things you are actually upset about that aren’t extra useless weapons

>>735616851
Left is Reddit, with tons of reddity movement
Right is 4chan, simple, efficient

File: thisgamesux.webm (3.82 MB, 888x630)

3.82 MB WEBM

>>735616851
You posted an edit. This is the original.

>>735628265
I have high standards from a company that demands so much in return.

>>735628489
Right. your anger at useless extra weapons is contingent on the price of the game and is entirely a non-factor when the game isn’t expensive or is free. So its not really the weapon is it? And ill wager you’ve got some $60-70 game with extra useless weapons you still do enjoy because its just not a bad game like that

>>735628810
The price is just one problem. I've told you that it's also about the company being a big fat hypocrite. Nintendo loses their marbles if you so much as recommend a romhack or mod in their presence, but now it's perfectly fine for me to make my own fun and fix their mistakes?

>and ill wager you’ve got some $60-70 game with extra useless weapons you still do enjoy
I can't even remember the last time I paid 60 dollars for a game, let alone 70. Like I just share Nintendo games with my roommates and let them offload the cost. Everything else rarely ever goes above 20 dollars, and those devs usually have no problem with romhacks and mods, so I can easily forgive a problem here and there. Like, oh say, one of my favorite games, Terraria. The devs openly encourage modding and changing the game upside down to fit my enjoyment, so who cares if a vanilla experience might have some busted weapons or OP strats? I can fix all of that myself while also fixing things the devs didn't intend for me to fix. Like torch luck? Goodbye. NPC happiness? Down the toilet. Those weird nerfs and progression changes like the meteor being moved post-Eater? Undone.

I guess the point is this: if you want me to embrace freedom and personal choice, then you better go the whole nine yards. Don't half-ass it.

>>735625217
>>735625461
Cope more, SM64 fucking sucks if you're not an 8 year old kid with an N64 and nothing else to play

>>735629081
Thats a different point than ‘extra useless weapons in a game make it shit’

>>735629093
You sound brown

>>735629216
You sound mad

>>735629148
The extra weapons were just an example. the point is that either the dev has to make the game balanced, or you better let me fix it wholesale. greedy devs want their cake, and to eat it too.

>>735620689
The damage sponge enemies that also do 0 damage to you don't allow for any form of fun even if you try.

File: images - 2026-03-24T095348.651.jpg (20 KB, 415x739)

20 KB JPG

>>735616965
>>735616851
...or just doesn't know how to play
Like shit. Niggers, you are literally taking the first couple seconds of gameplay make to an entire judgement of the whole game. It's clear the guy on the right has experience and knows what he is doing, but eventually the game demands more skill and moves from the player as he goes through the game. Shit, assholes, at least show me how he plays and overcomes bob omb battlefield, you know, the first fucking level. You niggers will over think anything.

>>735616851
>Your response /v/?
It's a baseless strawman.

>>735616851
I have a theory:
Giving players a fun jump, dash, roll or other movement ability they can spam while running around dramatically increases the fun. It doesn't even have to be super functional just something that lets the player do something while moving around. This Webm is a perfect example of that.

>>735616851
>back dashing to transverse
>roll spamming to move
NGL I only do those when the map/level design SUCKS and I want to rush things

When the level design is GOOD you do those natty as part of the core gameplay

See megaman X, crash bandicoot 2 and 3, sonic, where rushing IS part of the gameplay loop. Mario is the antithesis of this

>>735620689
brother Hight difficulty = 5x more HP, thats the shit you're defending? and the game was so bad people that played actually wanted to play no mans sky instead

>>735629498
>gameplay loop

>>735616965
I played like the right side screen as a kid on my n64 when the game was brand new. As an adult, i dont like (most) platformers and will only tolerate them if there is a heavy combat or puzzle element. I usually play crpgs and strategy games. It's a personality thing and I dont think whatever -oomerism youre trying to affiliate with it has anything to do with it.

>>735616851
This but gacha, left being putting money in the game and right being f2popoor

>>735629956
>no argument

>>735616851
Even running normally is fun in SM64. The animation and sounds are very charming.