>“As I’ve gained experience, I’ve come to realize that idealistic beliefs like ‘If you make something good, it’ll grab people’s attention and sell well’ are almost never true. In reality, it’s difficult to make it without a certain level of financial understanding and business sense,” said Kawakatsu. “There are tasks that aren’t particularly creative that you just can’t escape from. In fact, they’re crucial. Dreams alone will only take you so far – you’ve got to face reality, follow a sound, reliable procedure and keep on researching, thinking, and moving at a rapid pace.”Is he right?
You're an absolute 60IQ idiot if you ever believed that games can prop themselves up solely by quality, and not because of visibility.This means a lot of indie devs are in that category btw. A lot of indie games are just trying to recreate their favorite "Super Mario Sunshine" mechanics, expecting to succeed and grow their indie studio, and say that "The size of PS1 devs were indie". Nope nope nope. Game developers back then were always part of a larger enterprise, of driving technology forward, and those soulful and more niche games we got, were made with big publishers betting on them to do good numbers, thus propping up those developers with financial aid, networking, and marketing budgets.Indie games don't have a future. Only those who know that marketing matters, and that the past isn't the present.
no loli no buy
Gnosia is an awful game, though.
Anon, every product ever made needs to be marketed.I could make the cure to cancer, but if I don't tell anyone about it and just wait for someone to come knocking on my door to get it, then nobody is getting it.
>>735865895Yeah everyone knows this. I've read masterpieces of literature that get about 60 readers.The exorcist only got famous because the author appeared on the tonight show and got a film deal as a result but it was no better than any other horror novel of the era such as the reincarnation of audrey rose or something like that.
>>735866174recommend me two of those masterpieces
Indie games are constantly succeeding actually, you just don't think so because your definition of success is "I heard of the game" but in reality you are just a casual poser who doesn't have a fucking clue about any new releases so that's not an accurate barometer of success.
>>735865895>>735866083I keep hearing this argument, yet I keep trying random obscure shit on Steam with less than 10 reviews and it's always shit or incredibly flawed. No one has ever been able to point me to a truly unknown game that was a masterpiece.Also what the fuck does this guy know, his studio has only made 2 games (played both on release), One was a cute tower defense with a unique promise but ultimately forgettable, and Gnosia was fun, but it had basically 0 marketing and exposure and only spread through word of mouth in VN communities.
>>735866331uhhhhhhhhhhhhhRichard Struggle: Evacuate the Masquerade by JM Coombs and Travels in Nihilon by Alan Sillitoe.Oh and Lanterns and Lances by James Thurber although that guy did write for the New Yorker.
>>735866110Kukrushka is right there
>>735866526K I'll check em out tomorrow, ty
>>735866513That's because you a dumb retarded moron who can't pick right! You are Stupid!I keep trying obscure shit on steam with less than ten reviews and I'm always having a great time and you're about to hear about it I picked up Bridge Orders Outrim: The Unseen Enemy and it kicks ass. I stand up while I play it in front of my big screen tv so it's like I'm standing on the bridge of my spacebattleship.
>>735865895Well yeah. You could make the greatest game of all time, but if no one knows it exists then it's not going to go very far. That's how it is with anything.I've heard some good music with barely any views since I guess they just kind of posted it and hoped for the best. You have to actually let people know you did something for them to be able to check it out.
>>735865895yes. marketing can even make dogshit games become popular. if you don't have good marketing you need insanely good luck for your game to be successful, whether it's a good game or not.
>>735866672thx anon, I'll check it out. It's more popular than yours, but if you want a recommendation back, a recent game I enjoyed that nobody's ever heard of is Utter a Name.
>>735866513>a truly unknown game that was a masterpiece.E Z PEACIEIt's Death Trick: Double Blind. actually I could name hidden masterpieces nonstop.
>>735866374those games had some amount of marketing.
>>735866991Been on my wishlist for a couple years, but haven't pulled the trigger yet because some reviews said it was predictable. Got any more?
>>735866513>No one has ever been able to point me to a truly unknown game that was a masterpiece.There are degrees of obscurity anon. Yeah, there's that level of super obscure sub-10 review steam game, and there's probably a good one out there due to the sheer volume of those. But it doesn't make it any less true that games like Okami were an unknown that sold like dogshit back when it first came out despite it being one of the best games ever made.
>>735866672based
>>735866989enh it looks alright but probably not for full price also because I bought like 20 obscure games in the last week. it can wait on the wishlist for it's turn.
>>735867045sure. I also have a super secret reccomendation for a non steam game. It's Michigan: Report from Hell. Although I bet 90% of people out there who try that one hate it, but someone loves that game way too much. It could be you.
>>735866672>early access
>>735867046Yeah there's obviously hidden gems that underperformed, but even for those you'll see retards on here scream their names from the rooftops, like Rule of Rose, or Demon Turf.But people like me who are already used to dwell in underperforming niches, it feels like those screaming "THERE'S THOUSANDS OF MASTERPIECES NOBODY KNOWS!" actually mean that somewhere out there there's shit on the level of Chrono Trigger or Ocarina of Time with less than 50 sales, and I find that hard to believe.I've played plenty badly-selling, relatively unknown games that I enjoyed or found neat, but never thought they deserved a million sales.Closest I've played to "damn this is really fucking good and it's probably gonna go unappreciated" was Seance of Blake Manor, but even that seems to have gained traction.
>>735866513I did play a game with only like 20 steam reviews that I thought it was a hidden gem that had the dev writing a super depressing post saying that it gigaflopped but now it has 700 reviews thanks to word of mouth.Good games tend to eventually make it sooner or later.
>>735865895You need some form of marketing but if your game is shit then no amount of marketing can save it.
>>735867320Even OGRE1 shouldn't have sold even a million copies with logic like that. It's adored these days strictly for its cultural purchase.
>>735865895Does the average AAA marketing budget not already eclipse its corresponding development budget?
>>735865895If your game is a banger a little bit of marketing on sites like reddit and 4chan will get the sales going
I only play popular games
>>735867271thanks friend, really enjoyed Daemon Masquerade, and Crimson Diamond, Between Horizons, and Yokai Landlord are on my wishlist, but the rest are new to me.Here's a few more recommendations:Murder at the Birch TheaterAsbury PinesStrange JigsawsDeep Sleep/Don't Escape seriesHorror at Highrook
>>735867624Could probably add No Case Should Remain Unsolved, but that one kinda popped off after a few big JP devs put it on their game of the year list.
i like gnosia but making a visual novel and in the first 5 minutes they start to repeat lines is uncalled for
>>735865895>Water is wet, says Captain Obvious
It should be said that, especially nowadays, word of mouth is a strong as fuck marketing aspect. And if there ever was that 10 sales game that was as good as the all time greats, you'd definitely hear about it and it wouldn't be in that no sales club for long.Makes me think of that Visual Novel that was the highest rated game on Metacritic for a bit, doubt that shit sold more than a thousand copies initially, but you can bet your ass those numbers went way up once that literally who game got those scores.You do have to be REALLY fucking good to get that boost though, being a 8.5/10 isn't gonna cut it, you'd need to make some shit so good that people feel the need to shill it for free.
>>735867320https://x.com/mrmkl_/status/1858993784220238047https://store.steampowered.com/app/1434880/ROBO_OH/I picked up this random ass game years ago because I wanted to play a new fighting game. I literally went to the steam store, clicked sort by new on the "2D fighter" tag and bought it because it was only like $3. I think it's fantastic for an NES style fighting game and it only has 64 reviews, despite holding a couple of tournaments at major events, and despite constantly being updated with new content by the dev. He never seems to advertise his game at all outside Japan though, I think that's the issue. Sometimes good things do slip through the cracks. Or maybe fighting games are just too niche to get big traction.
>>735867707https://store.steampowered.com/app/4012690/The_Big_Hollow_1982/https://store.steampowered.com/app/3103560/SideEye_High/https://store.steampowered.com/app/3346320/REChoice/https://store.steampowered.com/app/3623630/Code_9/https://store.steampowered.com/app/2982950/Detective_Hindsight/https://store.steampowered.com/app/3622370/Trick_Eight/https://store.steampowered.com/app/2458980/Dimhaven__The_Lost_Source/
>>735867760shit, meant to reply to myself here >>735867707
>>735865895So how was the anime adaptation?
>>735865895true, days gone sold like shit compared to sony's other titles and that game is way better than horizon, n3w gow, ghost of sushi, last of us and spiderman. but sony didn't market it
>>735865895>make great game>pay a couple big streamers to play it>???>profit
>>735865895>nooooo we HAVE to spend $500 million on every single AAA project for it to be successful>meanwhile small indie devs every month
>>735868712For every indie game that comes out and sells millions, there's probably a thousand released that same day that sell maybe 100 copies.AAA projects flopping (and I mean a genuine flop, not /v/'s version of it) is more notable because failure in sales there is the exception, rather than the norm. Now whether it ends up "failing" anyways because it sold millions, but not enough millions is a separate thing entirely.
>>735865895Truly great games don't really need marketing to succeed, but marketing will make normies more aware of it. Like 6-8 range game need marketing the most
>>735865895You need a good hook. Something that when you see it, you instantly know what it's promoting. Not just some generic anime girl that you could take to be from any of the countless generic anime games if you didn't specifically research it.
>>735868886>there's probably a thousand releasedI sometimes for fun browse by release date, either under a tag I enjoy, or just raw, and of those 1000, 300 are AI slop (mostly AI porn jigsaw puzzles), 100-200 are lazy asset flips or clearly unfinished Unity projects, and another 300-400 are little timmy's first jank game with badly drawn art and tutorial-tier gameplay.I'd say there's at best 100 game releases that deserve any sales at all, and less than 5 that deserve widespread recognition, of which most seem to get.
>>735867046Okami sucks.
>>735867271Cool recommends, going on the wishlist.I'm glad this genre isn't entirely dead, it's just that we get like one really good game every 5 years. Not sure if I'd really call Lorelei a detective game but it's probably got the same fanbase I think.
I've tried Gnosia like 5 times but I end up dropping it 2 hours in, it's just such a bad blend of game and VN that doesn't do it for me. Like the art and music though.
>>735869607We've been having some good ones recently.
>>735867271Any of these close to Obra Dinn, preferably with appealing/professional/polished art direction? I like Phoenix Wright too, but I consider that type of game more of a visual novel.
>>735870196I guess I haven't really been following the "scene", we need a weekly Detective Games Thread.
>>735870302Uh, Obra Dinn, well there are plenty of Golden Idol ripoffs these days I suppose. Daemon Masquerade had excellent artwork. The kind of detective games I go for are the kind you can "lose" which is the case in Death Trick and Between Horizons and Crimson Diamond and so on. For reference, you can't lose in Phoenix Wright. It will not let you advance to the courtroom without all evidence gathered. You might be stupid, but you'll never be in an unwinnable state.Some more options, I suppose:https://store.steampowered.com/app/3758950/Death_at_Fleming_Manor/https://store.steampowered.com/app/3342470/City_of_Voices/https://store.steampowered.com/app/3036350/A_Case_of_Fraud/https://store.steampowered.com/app/1993410/Laws_of_Nadragia/https://store.steampowered.com/app/2653470/Little_Problems_A_Cozy_Detective_Game/https://store.steampowered.com/app/1431850/The_Tartarus_Key/
>>735866083most indie devs don't have the talent, funding, or enough staff to make something truly great. ex33 is not indie
explain e33 then? Because that thing don't have marketing and relay heavily on word of mouth
>>735871459It's not indie. Indie means "by yourself". It's short for independent. It's one guy. It's that simple. As with every other time in history, big corporations pretend to be counter-culture and underground and grunge and hipster, but they're not. They never have been and never will but that won't stop them from pretending or stop people from falling for it like fools.
>>735871582
>>735865895Yeah, i really dont know why people here think quality = sales. Theres a reason why so much money goes into marketing
>>735870721Thanks, I'll check them out! I'd like something a bit wider in scope of the puzzling and deduction, rather than just miles of dialogue and connecting one item with one piece of text. And good that you reminded me of Golden Idol. I saw that ages ago but forgot about it. I don't really like the art style, but I'm hoping it'll be an acquired taste if the game is as good as the reviews say.
>>735866083Also ps1/ps2 era was full of experimentation because it was the begging and maturing of the 3D era. Remember even the very concept of two joysticks was alien at a time.
>>735870302That I played recently, from best to worst:- The Golden Idol games- The Roottrees are Dead- type help (browser, getting a remake called Incident at Galley House)- Murder at the Birch Tree Theater- Confidential Killings- Utter a Name- A Case of Fraud- Case of the Worst Day EverLast 2 don't really recommend unless you are desperate for more.
Gnosia was fun. I have no further input.
>>735871743Also mentioned it before in the thread, but Seance at Blake Manor.
>>735865895Don't depend on the algorithm. Those are not for you, those are for mega corps. Your product has to be marketed manually.
>>735865895You do have to make something that people actually want, yes.Or at least, making something that you yourself would want to buy and play, not just something you want to make, those are two different things.
>>735866083>You're an absolute 60IQ idiot if you ever believed that games can prop themselves up solely by quality,But that's how capitalism is supposed to work... Are you saying capitalism doesn't work, you fucking commie?!
>use an anime to market your game>6 years after the game came out
>>735865895great, good are subjective marketing cam help it become objective still subjective thoughall games are shit
>>735865895This is why game developers need business men to tell them what to make. If a game doesnt sell then you wont get enough money to make the next game.
>>735867046Ami made it into MvC also Okami is a terrible game. What marketing did Lethal company, Peak, or schedule 1 do? Outside of friendslop, true indie excellence rises to the top. HK was not marketed at all. Nor was Zexion, Half sword, and I'd be willing to bet Noita received almost no advertising. You can literally just make an exceptionally good game and succeed in the indie space because that's where the real gamers that judge based on gameplay are.
>>735871582You're describing a solo dev, few games fall into that category. Independent means the dev is independent of any publisher and the strings that come attached with that. But with specialist publishers/distributors like Devolver, the term practically just means sufficiently small in team and budget, though I do find calling E33 an indie game silly, and that it's way beyond the indie line.>>735871628Always funny to see how many separate positions they can come up with for those cases.
>>735865895>literally first time I'm hearing about that gamecan't believe they're giving advice
>>735872049How capitalism is supposed to work:>Retard dev makes 5/10 game, sells 5 copies>God dev makes 10/10 game, sells 1000000 copiesHow capitalism actually works:>Retard dev makes 5/10 game, shekelstein gives him 500 billion dollars in marketing, all forms of media are oversaturated with shills saying it's a 10/10, it sells 1000000 copies>God dev makes 10/10 game, sells 5 copies because everyone's wallets emptied for Last of Grand Theft Duty 26: Raceswap Edition
>>735872109Damn, I skipped the anime because I figured it'd have shit pace, didn't know it was based
>>735866526People like that and the current state of the industry confirm that OP sucks a field of dicks as usual and the person in that post is a retarded corporate drone.How is your multi bajillion dollars marketing budgets are going morons? Why is the industry crashing since the mid 2010s ?Why everyone mouth breathing retard from here to the moon's insists the marketing and publicity is all that matters ?Because you are all talentless, unimaginative hacks that can only produce derivative garbage , that you then spent millions of dollars to shove right down the throats of other brainlet retards that grew up without taste and think that drivel like the ones this moron posted here are hidden gems, right along with garbage like harry potter and lord of the rings.Fuck you all, you get what you deserve.
>>735872230I remember leddit threads clowning on Hollow Knight for being a derivative game in an oversaturated genre shortly before release. If anything it had negative marketing, and still did great.
>>735872339The OP's post I mean.
>>735872252It's definitely not mainstream, but most people deep into VNs have heard of it. And it got big enough for an anime studio to adapt it.
>>735865895
Indie marketing is just about tricking content creators into playing your game.
>>735872339the fuck are you trying to say here? You hate on the industry for making derivative slop, but then turn around and also spit on people suggesting legit good underappreciated works?wtf do you want?
>>735872498Us content creators will gladly play your game if it's good however
>>735872498Modern indies should fund AI so it kills all the content creators and success goes back to the devs' hands.
>>735871743Thanky! I already watched Nimi Nightmare play the Roottrees game so that one's kind of out, but I'll make a note of the rest.
>>735872498Or get it on an Indie Direct.
>>735866513there are no great games with no salesbut there are many games from the golden age of making money with indies on steam that would not make shit now, like Rogue Legacy 1.
>>735872498Gigabrain strategy: Become a youtuber who covers secrets in video games and cover your own game with a secret that you adapt to viewer reception.
>>735872308They adapted pretty much fucking everything. They even genderbent the protagonist in some loops so they could do the female exclusive endings.
Does this really need to be said out loud and written as an article? Yes, you need to make something appealing if you want it to sell well
Bad games are sucessful so vice Versa is also true
>>735872682TIL there's gender exclusive endings, I'll have to replay it. idk how many more times I can put up with Sha ming literally being confirmed gnosia and everyone still believing him though.
>>735866148Minecraft had zero marketingRoblox had zero marketingPubg had zero marketingCould go on and on through eras
every day I go through the new release queue and check what is coming out.https://store.steampowered.com/app/4523970/Breast_Inspector/
>>735872648Well, to be fair to Rogue Legacy, it was basically the game that introduced progress carrying between runs to the roguelike genre, which made it appealing to the masses. Now every single roguelite does that shit. Games like Gears of War 1 would also not sell shit if they came out nowadays.
>>735872847>Roblox had zero marketing>Pubg had zero marketingThey literally had paid promotion with Youtubers
>>735866526>Richard Struggle: Evacuate the Masquerade by JM Coombs and Travels in Nihilon by Alan Sillitoe.Hahahahah some kind of ya fantasy bullshitTrue masterpieces
>>735872847>Minecraft had zero marketingLmfao. Notch will be the first to admit he astroturfed hype and excitement for Minecraft.
Btw, in the subtitles that I was unfortunate enough to download for the anime, both Setsu and Yuri describe themselves as non-binary (no surprises there as they are CR subs), while you can hear them both saying "Han" in Japanese which I assume is 半 for half/semi (gender?). What does this actually supposed to mean?
>>735872514If this is your idea of "legit good and underappreciated" then your taste is shitty because that shit is objectively bad and thus there is a reason they are not popular.With shitty choices like these you give people the impression that the retarded corporate gook in OP's post is right about marketing.In reality you are both promoting bad products regardless of advertising. There is a reason your suggestions are and should remain obscure and there is also a reason that those moronic companies need multi million marketing campaigns to sell their mind numbing, tasteless garbage.That reason is that you are all producing and consuming bad products to the degree that you all have forgotten what a good product is.In summary, no your favorite indie shit is not underappreciated or obscure because it lacks proper marketing, but because it is bad.At the same time, the major corporate backed titles are even worse regardless of how well advertised they are.You need to get some taste and raise your stands.That goes to everyone.
>>735870721Obra Dinn isn't anything like golden idolThe fact that people can't tell actual logic apart from matrix puzzles is fucking sad. Golden idol shit is fucking garbage
>>735872848This gem is also out today, but far from the most disturbing thing I've ever seen. You can put practically anything on steam.
>>735872990ok nigger, if your taste is so fucking refined, what do you recommend?
>>735872952Minecraft must have been successful because of notchs personal 4chan postsDumb ass motherfucker
>>735873017they are both about deducing identities and events based on environmental clues on the scene. The last idol DLC even had a chapter that was straight up an Obra Dinn homage.
You can brute force some numbers by paying for them, but nothing is going to stick if your game doesn't have actual appeal. There are plenty of examples of small games that take off out of nowhere as well as huge marketing flops. "It just needed more marketing" is an excuse for a game that didn't have as wide of an appeal as its creators thought it might have.The only examples of "hidden gems" mainly come about due to random viral popularity which is something people WISH they could pay for. Stuff like Among Us and Suika Game.
>>735873124When you're told that youre making a meaningless comparison maybe you should listen instead of showing that you can't tell dissimilar things apart Obra dinn is about deductionGolden idol is matrix puzzles*They are not similar games* The task is irrelevant only the gameplay is relevant
>>735873107No it's because he plagiarized infiniminer and then tried to emotionally blackmail zachtronics with hush money when he heard zach's brother was dying of cancer.
>>735873078There are no "hidden gems" that some corporate conspiracy has withheld from you.You just have to not be a contrarian for the lulz or a pretentious hipster.The real problem is that no new worthwhile stuff are being created and even if I made a few suggestions, and even if you liked them all, you would still run out of good stuff.I bet you know all the good stuff, as most people who write here, do.
>>735873232Hahaha oh no a video game copied another video game???? It's the end of the worldPeople who have never done anything will do anything to shit on the success of others. This type of attitude pigeonholes you as a loser just fyi...makes it extremely obvious what your general position in life is
>>735873259so you don't have good taste either, or don't want to out yourself as liking things that everyone will laugh at, got it.
>>735873259FalseKotama and Academy Citadel is the best metroidvania in nearly 30 years and only has like <100k sales Wuppo is still unknown
>>735873307What an extremely pajeetcoded scammer brained post. Deduct 500 izzat points now Patel.
>>735865895Well, yeah.Advertise the good parts of your game, make people interested... You can't JUST expect it to sell well 'cuz you think it will.
>>735872498>Indie marketing is just about tricking content creators into paying them to play your gameftfy
>>735873347>WuppoActual hidden gem, can't believe it never broke past cult-status. Shame Tiny Terry was pretty eh.
>>735873361>Get insulted accurately on the very reality of your situation>Respond with chopped up 4chan word saladFurther reinforcing obvious reality Gl out there browno
>>735869141Based.It's boring as fuck.
Gnosia was a weird game. The idea of playing One Night Ultimate Werewolf with NPCs is fine, except I don't remember if there were any concrete way to tell who was lying. There definitely wasn't anything close to "tells" like IRL, at the very least. The premise that some people are aliens or whatever was fine, but you had to replay the same shit over and over and over and over to unlock everything, which got old.
>>735873226The hell do you mean by matrix puzzle? It's the same shit. Match words to make sentences.
>>735873226>hm, I know this russian guy has a pipe, oh the pipe is next to bed 37 so he must be crew member 37VS>hm, one of the names is a doctor, oh this guy has a scalpel on him, so he must be the doctorThe gameplay is literally the same, you match information from multiple sources until the connections narrow it down to only one possibility
>>735873410Play Kotama. It's no wuppo but it is better than shit like bloodstained
>>735872308The Gnosia anime is actually way better than an anime adaptation of a video game has any right to be. Fumbles a little towards the end but overall a pretty strong show, can't recommend it enough to anyone who liked the game.
>>735873347This Kotama game came out only 2 months ago and has near 2000 reviews. Hardly hidden. It won't win any trophies from Geoff Highguard, but I doubt the devs will struggle to be seen by metroidvania fans.
>>735867707God I fucking loved Strange Jigsaws, good call. And is furry Golden Idol even out yet? I've had it wishlisted for a year.
>>735873447Obra Dinn is about deduction not "matching words"Wait you fucking got answers wrong in obra dinn didn't you? Hahahahahahahah only two are acceptable in the entire game A matrix puzzle is a puzzle solved by doing a matrix ie. Every puzzle in fucking golden idol. They literally teach you kids nothing now. Were you playing golden idol games without making matrices?Once again hahahahahah
>>735873071If it's good enough for the god of manga, then I suppose a cat is fine too.
>>735873441it was mostly choosing someone to trust to give reliable info, and making deductions off of that, hoping you didn't choose a gnosia. And/or waiting until you unlock skills that straight up tell you when someone is lying. It definitely was the weakest part of the game.
>>735867271How many of these are real detective games, ala something like Golden Idol or Obra Dinn, versus VNs? I'm a retard who loves magic so honestly the description for Double Blind already has me intrigued, but I'm too old to really do VNs anymore.
>>735873504It is hidden in relation to its quality. Absolutely buries shit like hollow knight games that got 500x as much exposure
>>735873527>furry Golden Idolif you mean Birch Theater, that came out last week, otherwise tell me because I don't know any other furry ones.
>>735873621Yes, that's the one. I remember the demo being pretty good, if not a little easy.
>>735873578Again, it's literally the same process. In both cases you analyze crime scenes to find the correct words to finish sentences. The difference is that Obra Dinn gives you access to the words from the start while in Golden Idol you have to find them first.
>>735873604Daemon Masquerade is kinda like the Logic mechanic from Ace Attorney Investigations if you played that. You play through a bunch of "days", each day you get more random evidence in your cork board, you have X days before a murder happens, and must connect evidence to find out their identity before it happens. There's like 5 of these tying into an overarching story.Double Blind also seems to have actual gameplay, but didn't play it yet.
>>735873604Golden idol and obra dinn are not similarGolden idol does not have any deductionIt is MATRIX PUZZLES ONLY Obra Dinn has DEDUCTION ONLY PUZZLES is everyone who plays video games now fucking stupid? Are you all actually browns on phones like 100%The mental image of you retards trying to "detective" golden idol puzzles insread of solving them in 30 seconds with matrices is fucking horrifying. Browns will get so much worse than you, too!!
>>735873664It's clear to me that you guessed through obra dinn and didn't actually experience the game so you can stop talking lol It's so fucking sad that gaming is completely surrounded by low IQ people now
>>735871743Type Help felt way harder to me than Roottrees. Like getting the bad ending or whatever wasn't that hard, but finding the many hidden logs and real ending was a fuckton of combing through the same things 500 times.
>735873708wait until this fag learns that matrix/zebra puzzles are deduction puzzles
word of mouth and regular marketing doesnt work if the game has no mass appeal. I played path of abyss recently and thought it was neat but I wouldnt recommend it to anyone I know since they dont play drpgs let alone experimental ones.
>>735873769For me type help was harder than base roottrees but easier than the roottrees DLC
>filling in squares of information directly stated to you is deductionWhen your eyes are brown does that make it harder to read? Like does everything look dark/brown?
>>735873831I've had that shit wishlisted ever since I saw their dwarf design
>>735873604>I'm too old to really do VNs anymore.Wat. How exactly does playing VNs become harder with age?
>>735873708>game about figuring out what happened>ruin it for yourself by using logic to bruteforce word combinations instead of thinking about the crime sceneThis is ADVANCED autism
>>735873708I scrolled up and saw your insane autism. I assume you haven't played the Golden Idol games because you 100% have to use deduction to figure out where the words fit on the matrix you're describing. How the fuck do you know where which labels go where? The answer is deduction. If you want to play the "y-y-you're brown, not me!" game, go ahead, but literally every single person on Earth thinks these games are similar except you.
>>735873842>ook ook ooga booga>me see pirate portrait>me see square below>me input name from name list>me smart>oook ook ooga booga!>me see person portrait>me see square below>me input name from name list>me mad for no reason>OOOOOOOOOOOOAAAAAAAAAAAA ME NO HAPPY, GAME BAD, GAME MATRIX, ME HEAD HURT, ME WHINE ONLINE
>>735873921When you get older you realize 100% of time spent on shit like that was wasted since there was no literary value, gameplay or anything. Playing them will make you feel even more like committing suicide than you already do.You'll look back at things others did and then look at all the fucking time you wasted reading reams of completely meaningless text. What's worse is you can't even discuss them with anyone or have and scholarly interaction about them at all, it's just drivel for idiots. So you can't even make a useful friendship or anything out of it.
>>735873921Less time to play since I have kids, and those games usually require 30+ hours of reading.
>>735873921you become aware of the passage of time and have a constant feeling you should be doing something better and not putting another 30 mins into a 70 hour VN
>>735873842>directly stated to you is deductionExcept it's not directly stated to you, you absolutely retarded cunt.
>>735874010Uh, that's why we're on 4chan, retard.
>>735873941>How the fuck do you know where which labels go whereBy doing the fucking matrices I did this stuff in *third grade* and you were not even exposed to the concept There is quite literally zero deduction and my estimation of you as even a mammal is dropping by your inability to understand definitions of elementary school words
>>735873842Since you clearly haven't played them, I challenge you to download the demo and play The Intoxicating Dinner Party, and tell me in good faith it can be solved without deduction.
>>735874013>>735874030Read faster? And if you aren't enjoying reading, don't play them. The whole point is to have fun. If you're not having fun reading VNs, why are you doing it?
>>735874052Everything required to solve the matrix puzzles is always directly stated to youThis is because the game is based on simple matrix puzzlesDid you know my iq is over 120? More to the point, did you know your own IQ is under 100?God help you kids. Unemployable even at min wage. Can't listen can't learn. Think you can win by saying same wrong shit over and overAnd black eyes to boot
>>735874010I still look back fondly on Umineko to this day. Read better VNs.
>>735874010FWIW, I can still excuse playing VN type games if they aren't exceedingly long and bloated, because by the end credits I get a sense of completion and will have hopefully experienced a story that left a lasting impression or emotionally satisfied me in some way.The shit I no longer play is online games though. Not only do you interact with drooling retards, it's just an endless pit of time consumption, you never reach or accomplish anything meaningful, no finality. Oh great, you played 5000 matches of Overwatch, do you feel like you accomplished something or had a meaningful experience? Nice, you spent 20 years of your life leveling a hundred characters in WoW, did that change your life or inspire you in some way? Did it have any tangible benefits outside the game?
>>735874101That one is solved by doing like five matrices You're actually unable to comprehend a concept taught to me in third grade. This is critically important as it shows that a gifted child will always, across lifespan, be literally infinitely more useful than a non gifted person. You are like a rock or wood or something more than an analytical engine
>>735873708Niggest, most lowest IQ post in the entire board today. Not even the jeetbots being paid to shill marathon here are this retarded
>>735874079Why are you shitposting when you haven't played the games? I actually can't tell if you're deranged autist or just baiting.
>>735874180is it worth finishing? Last year I read up to the end of chapter 6, and the first hour or so of 7, but kinda drifted off since I wasn't liking where it was going. But if the payoff is worth it I might finish it.
>>735874180Of course you look back fondly on something your para social internet friend group expects you to like You went into it loving it because you thought you were supposed toI don't read fucking vns lol you actually retarded loser
>>735874101I want to see him do that first level in the DLC where it's a mahjong party or whatever. Surely that ones really simple. You just put down a few names (that the game automatically gives you) and you can finish it in seconds. Just simple elementary matrices or whatever.
>>735868712>people unironically want games like these to be the majority of the marketand you think this doesn't fucking suck?
>>735866083>Cave Story became a hit way before Nicalis bought it>Yume Nikki is still popular desp0ite being a small freeware indie game from the 2000s>OFF is a similar case to Yume Nikki>Ib is another case of being popular way before it got a publisher>Undertale>FNAFlook man its clear that indies can and have gotten sizeable fanbases without publishers.
When this guy says "matrices" does he mean "trial and error"? Obra Dinn can also be solved using trial and error. That's in fact a common complaint I've seen.
>>735874204Yeah online is even worse. I strongly believe that rank/mmr in games and lots of other stuff should be legally banned. Like grinding based games like Poe should be banned. It's effectively a drugI know a guy with 40k hours in maple. It stole his life.
>>735874249>You are like a rock or wood or something more than an analytical engineThe most eloquent person in New Delhi, our pajeet shitposter.
>>735874249>a gifted child will always, across lifespan, be literally infinitely more useful than a non gifted person.ah I didn't know I was dealing with a gifted child. You must be a very accomplished young man, yes? Surely you work at NASA or some other high profile intellectual field? With published papers and shit? Right? You aren't just a burgerflipping chud wasting his genius by posting on 4chan? Right? Right???Why is a gifted subhuman like you even playing fucking videogames? You should be solving quantum physics, since you are so useful to society and all. Your genius is wasted reading these words you absolute brazilian hellspawn, shut the fuck up and let people enjoy good games that filtered your blown up ladyboy asshole.
>>735874336Ranjeet hasn't played either. He doesn't realize that you can guess "drowned" in Obra Dinn and it'll be right 80% of the time.
>>735874302>But if the payoff is worth it I might finish it.LMAO, no. Erika was by far the best part of the answer arcs. Ep 7 is only interesting in the tea party, and ep 8 has some interesting parts bogged down by dogshit filler. I would say ep 8 is worth playing for the interactive segments. You can then watch the rest on youtube while skipping the filler. Umineko is still an overall very interesting story and extremely unique. it's definitely worth experiencing.>>735874305If you play video games only for social approval, I feed bad for you.
>giant group of people who don't know a simple mathematical concept are certain the guy who knows it is actually wrongIt's only natural that I would stand apart from you as I am white with light blue eyes and a large penisThe sad thing is not a single one of you is bothering to look it up and learnGo spend some more money on golden idol "video games" or as I called it "homework"
>>735874336I think what he's trying to say with his poor understanding of the English language is something like>In Obra Dinn I see a man stabbed, so I deduce he was stabbed, and input it in the box>In Golden Idol, I click on stabbed man, and get the word stabbed, and I just put the word stabbed in place. The information was given to me, I didn't deduceIn other words, he's a feral retard in his mom's basement at 40 who thinks arguing semantics is a sign of genius prodigy.
>>735874478But the only reason people consume anything like umineko is to belong to a parasocial internet group? You were the one being put on the spot anon, not me >>735874398>Thoughts just stop to you when commas existLolz
>>735874502I am appalled that such an aryan brahmin like yourself would be so retarded as to consider a peasant game like Idol worthy of being called "homework". "Homework" implies a certain challenge, and material used for learning. But clearly you are above it with your unparalelled call center skills.But I won't take more of your izzat and time, have a good morning saar, and hope your next 8 hours are spent in a call with kitboga.
>>735873460>better than shitstainedThat's an absurdly low bar. Even the definition of midtroidvania: Ender Lillies is better than shitstained. Is it better than HK? Silksong? Nine Sols? Prince of Persia the lost crown? Infernaxe? La Mulana? Animal well? Zexion? Grime? There is real competiton in the oversaturated metroidvania genre. No need to bring up one from the bottom 30th %ile.
Wild how one person derailed a thread this hardAre there any good detective games from the PS1 era and before that? Like some random PC game that never left Japan or something.
>>735873612HK took a lot longer than 2 months to get to 2000 reviews
>>735874671Yeah it's better than all those Lol at pretending shit like ender lilies, hk, pop, animal well is good though Don't worry you will play it soon as you realize you are parasocially supposed to play it because it is accepted as good. I understand how you kids work
>>735874687There's quite a few famicom detective style games, like the Twilight Syndrome ones, but I don't think many have translations.
>>735874687They're all adventure games. If you played that genre before you know how they're like.
>>735874502You will NEVER be Quentin.
>>735874687I got you senpai check out this dope ass fucking detective game
>>735866672Games like that will never be popular though, they're too niche. You gotta find games that are fulfilling some guy's dream game. Not generic indie platformer #34690 with less than 10 reviews. I bet you can't find one of those that are actually good.
>>735874820hoyl sovl... strong kojima vibes
>>735874930It should be noted that the famous "detective game" from early gaming is in fact kojimboThat and deja vu which is a trial and error game.
>>735873107>Minecraft must have been successful because of notchs personal 4chan postsyes, retard. minecraft wouldve been nothing without 4chan spreading the word.
>>735872339marketing is still doing a lot of heavy lifting for bloated budget games.all these recent AAA flops wouldve been seen as massively successful titles in the past with their sales.
>>735874745I don't trust you at all because if you had any reading comprehension you would have seen I think EL is the definitive 5/10 milquetoast metroidvania. It isn't good or bad it just is. Every single element is a 5/10. The music is a 5/10, the story is a 5/10, the world design is a 5/10, the combat is a 5/10, the secrets are a 5/10, the bosses are a 5/10, and the character design is a 5/10. It was designed in a lab to be the most average and uninteresting metroidvania ever made.I will listen to 2000 reviews in 2 months although that is suspicious of eceleb boosting. Again, HK did not get 2000 reviews in 2 months, it was a much longer organic growth. I'll still look into the game, but I'm already wary of an invisible finger on the scale.
>>735875012Hahahahahahahah hahahahahahahaha hahahahahahahaha hahahahahahahaha hahahahahahahaha hahahahahahaHoly shit I can't imagine being some fucking o2 waste whose entire life has been only 4chan and who has to tell himself fantasies about how fucking 4chan decided this and that and by extension, you, of course!Can you walk a mile?
>>735875146underage
>>735873584She looks like she fucks human men.
>>735875146Minecraft got its start on 4chan, after that he didn't need us anymore. We ARE the reason Minecraft even got popular.
>>735875085>>all these recent AAA flops wouldve been seen as massively successful titles in the past with their sales.idk why the fuck all these retarded companies keep having 300+ million budgets when the needed sales to break even are impossible from conception.Instead of employing 1000 trannies to make one of these flops, they could've put 50-100 devs per game and pumpted 15 games in the same time, for a fraction of the budget, and probably a very close level of quality minus the bloat.It's like buying a car with all the extras, no, you don't fucking need gold-plated cup holders. You are never even gonna have a fucking drink inside the car, cut that shit.
>>735875135It sok you will decide to play it because you think you are expected to. That's how you navigate life. You think it's a designated okay game, or you will decide that soon when it releases in console and hence takes off on /v/Correct analysis of ender tho Did you know to some people streamers don't exist? Like it's not a concept they think about lolHk got slow reviews because hk is bad and propped up by console browns. PC gamers don't just blindly buy bad games they buy good games like Kotama.
>>735866820If something is good (good in the sense that it appeals to a large number of people) it will eventually become popular within a niche at the very least. You can’t find some random indie game with the level of effort as Undertale for example, sitting with 2 reviews on Steam. Such a game simply does not exist.
>>735875146it literally started in 4chan and indiedb. You can probably still dig and find the posts.
>>735875323Right and agriculture started in Iraq so if agriculture tried to start in america instead it would have just never worked, there would not be any agriculture I'm actually starting to be shocked by how dumb younger people are. Like you are fucking legit nigger level stupid
>>735875253Your idiotic assertions are really putting me off but it's too late and I'm already looking into it myself. If the game actually is good they aren't sending their best.
>>735868886>thousand released that same day that sell maybe 100 copiesYes. Because 99% of released games are utter shit.They don't deserve to sell well, they are terrible.Good games -> sell and get promoted by steam automaticallyBad games -> don't sell and steam (rightfully) won't show them to anyone after a whileThe system works flawlessly. Make a good game, and it doesn't matter what your marketing, graphics, team size or whatever, is. If it's good, it will sell.
>>735875316Exactly. Even this thread is a good example. Before matrixfaggot, there was a long discussion over Dinn/Idol-likes, which is a niche within the niche of detective games, and yet you can find spaces where people will talk and recommend shit, and drive a few extra sales any time it gets brought up. VNs are the same too. No one has ever in their life seen marketing for Higurashi or Umineko, but they are huge.
Best girl by a long mile.
>>735875386pipe down zoomie, I'm 35. You weren't even born when rana was added to Minecraft.
>>735865895to sell a game you need a big shilling campaign to buy ads and "influencers" to put pressure on the goyim to buy it because FOMO, nothing more, with enough money and influence even a shit or mediocre game can sell millions
>>735875392No need to be so tsundere anon
>>735871708Most of it was pretty professional, a bit untested and experimental maybe, but pretty professional. It was people used to working alongside suits, but they didn't need to wear suits, and they could probably whip their dicks out in the office for shits and giggles without getting fired if they wanted to because almost zero women or perceived ethics. Capitalism = manly. So a lot of people were more openly communicating while working, and in a very entrepreneurial and challenging spirit, while also working under tight corporate planning and deadlines, information about E3 and other milestones they had to hit.Even if the internal development structure could be compared to indie, the external factors were nothing like it. An indie is also usually hooked up to Discord, or at least some form of social media where we constantly compare out moral righteousness and feel an impulsive need to stay political for no good reason. This alone is enough that even if 20 fast and loose developers band together, they won't be very honest with each other, and they'll always be afraid of doing the wrong thing, and not appearing perfect enough. There's typically also 1-2 trannies in the group, who make sure to do amazing programming (because they're often quite good, just like Cosmo the speedrunner. It's part of the tranny pipeline) but they're so socially devious that it doesn't create the same mood around development.So IMO a lot of indies end up being dead weight in a way small-scale games of the SNES-PS1 era weren't. I definitely do see similarities in an indie title and a "AAA" SNES game in how simple and basic they are. But indies feel less inspired, and more sort of... just not ever getting anywhere that will be remembered 10 years from now, because they're not pushing the envelope of an up and coming technology. They're nostalgiafagging about things especially their Gen Alpha audience don't catch up on.
>>735875454>with enough money and influence even a shit or mediocre game can sell millionsand that's literally the only thing keeping the AAA industry afloat the past decade.The thread however is about whether actual good games can go entirely unnoticed without marketing.
>>735875450I stopped playing Minecraft when hunger was added like other whites. Fuck is a rana?Younger people, like I said
>>735875243bloating up shit seemed to work for a long time and now it doesnt and corpos are too slow to adjust.I think part of it is that the previous way of making more smaller games is harder to control by business masters who want to paint everything by numbers.
>>735875386underage
>>735875496>Fuck is a rana?Nice job outing yourself. I'll let you do the googling, if your generation even knows what that is anymore.
>>735875496Rana was an anime girl with a frog hat that notch added in one of the waaaay early betas, when the game didn't even have survival shit and was just placing blocks for fun. A child like you that probably started in 1.0 wouldn't remember.
>>735875539It's extra funny to me because at the end of the day I'm still white with blue eyes a big cock and an hourglass shaped woman in the bed You're just whatever you are lol Like your entire rhetoric here is based on wanting to be who I actually am and calling me what you are, you actually cannot perceive the level of mirth I experience I literally have the option to go fuck right now if I desire
most babbs actually did forget that minecraft was meant to have a more stylized anime like style but then notch got rid of the artist and we were stuck with these autismally ugly programmer art faces.
>>735875458You're lucky I'm weeb agnostic and don't give a shit whether something is anime coded or not because the aesthetic alone is enough to tell the entire story of how it got so much attention in such a short amount of time.I'm really concerned that steam users are saying it is easier than blasphemous and that the devs have added all kinds of shit like fucking platforming skips to appease chinks. That does not look good.It's safe to call it with 99% certainty that this is not going to dethrone any of the greats, but I'll actually look at the gameplay now on the hardest difficulty before I pass a final judgment.
>>735875496Anyway, even if we ignore 4chan marketing, Minecraft had literally Valve shilling it when it was still in one of the early alphas https://www.teamfortress.com/post.php?id=4130
>>735865895so rich coming from the producer of a game that got popular because of the game's quality.
>>735865895>watch the "gameplay"Yeah no wonder this shit is irrelevant
>>735875594Ah so parasocial shit, was never into thatWhy would you play Minecraft that's just placing blocks at all? Anyway Minecraft isn't exactly oldschoo so trying to call underage over it is hilarious Game is 30+ years deep into vidya for me rofl, sorry I didn't remember your anime girl fat guy oc>>735875662What on earth makes you think I desire to go back and forth about this with you >>735875682Damn that definitely means it would not have been organically popular, gamers would have just hated it if not reading about it from some site or board!Damn it's fucking crazy how some of post like you're arguing or something but you actually do not know how to do it
>>735875146mentally ill post
>>735875492>actual good games can go entirely unnoticed without marketing95% or more will go unnoticed and will fail, the ones who won't are pushed by the "algorithm" or by some "influencers"
>>735865895Ah yes the coping mechanism of a failed game's dev, blame it on your customers, your publisher, your marketing, game journalism, whatever -isms is trending, anything but your own game being shit because that couldn't possibly be it, you've made it therefore it's great.
>>735875920If Japanese are told by a superior that something should sell well, then reality is to blame when it doesn't.
>>735875740you are such a retarded schizo teenager, you would make a good couple with matrix guy. You should hatefuck while arguing who's the smartest gamer with the most knowledge
>>735875920the dev in OP made one game nobody heard about (Unholy Heights), and Gnosia, which actually sold well. I imagine he put 1% into marketing it, and correlated that to its success.
>>735876042I'm the same guy and I'm closer to 50 you *actual retard*, how could you somehow fail to match the verbal style? Low iq and ESL both Go your whole life being stupid and I bet you don't even have being good at video games to show for it
*farts in thread*you peasants should count yourself fortunate that i grace this thread with my royal gas*farts louder with reddit spacing*
>>735876098I refuse to believe a guy over 16 would make a post like >>735875146
>>735875740>>735876098I'm back from watching gameplay. What a waste of time. Kotama's an EL tier midtroidvania with 1/10 music. I've never even seen worse music in a metroidvania, a feat of soullessness that shouldn't be humanly possible. But it was deved by chinks so I shouldn't be too surprised.This dude is a special kind of retarded.
I bought near automata for the ass but stayed for the story and the ass.
>>735865895Journalists literally contribute to this issue by talking about Pokopia for the 100th time instead of the OP game
>>735876257you cannot say that benchod, I am highest IQ in country hahahaha hahahaha hahahaha you are brown I am blue eyes white dragon, you need matrix to understand the natural born genius of Kotama! I have 3 bodacious hot wives in my bed right now, and my 5 feet dick is inside all of them at once. How? Genius.
>>735876257>I'll target the music, that will get him!Kid I've been on the internet since 1994, you will literally never be able to do this like meI dunno why you are so desperate to converse with me I assume you like dominant people but I am not gay sorry
>>735876324Journos get filtered by anything deeper than roblox. None of them could ever play Gnosia
>>735876384This is a fake genius baby 50 year old, he's larping as me to make me look bad, classic brown eyes. Listen to me, you can tell from my words that I am the real 100 year old video game master. I invented notch and metroidvanias.
>become a hype personality in less than one thread*Blows smoke off finger while making a little fwooh sound*
>>735865895>Visual novel creatorOpinion on games discarded.
>>735876201AIEEEEEEEEEEEEEE
>>735865895Making a game so great that people feel the urge to tell their friends about it IS good marketing.
>>735865895Gnosia was fucking trash. As much as I wanted to be interested in the story, gating it behind grinding out the absolute dogshit "clue" gameplay was horrible. NPCs had the logic of a subzero IQ orangutan.
>>735874010>Playing them will make you feel even more like committing suicide than you already do.this sounds like a personal issue
>>735876742It's not, I simply can't imagine any vn player being non suicidal
>>735876794>I simply can't imaginerefer to my previous point
reminder that in modern AAA studios something like 90% of employees don't even play video games>source: I worked for a AA studioand even those that do play games it's like that big tit Blizzard girl that went viral and all she played was fuckin OverWatch because it was a blizzard game and she worked there
>>735874010You sound like a projecting faggot with """depression""" and takes every chance he can to bother telling people about it.
>>735876649What's wrong with the entire ship unanimously believing gnosia Shigemichi even though the first words out of his mouth were detectable as lie even if you only had 1 point in intelligence?
>>735876852>indie games that look good>muh low poly ps1 and 4 niggas in a rowDamn maybe the gameplay matters a little more than how well you can out pixel other slop.
>>735876852>reminder that in modern AAA studios something like 90% of employees don't even play video gamesimagine if an author doesn't like reading LMFAO
>>735866513I liked Haiku the Robot. Simple Metroidvania but I've never heard anyone mention it and it probably sold terribly.
>>735865895How is this not common sense?
>>735866148Oh anon, the reality is even when people are being told about a cure, they just dont get it for whatever reason.Just look up your country's uptake for cure for hepatitis C.
>>735866148it's not like game developers are keeping their games locked up at home. They are putting them for sale, on websites that sell things.If I need the cure for cancer I'll look it up on Steam, and if the only result is yours, I'll buy it, marketing or not.
>>735872261concord and dustborn flopped though
>>735866148>Make cure>The hospital you present it to demands 5,000 dollars or they won't take you seriously>New reporters have 50 articles about a delivery robot crash and 0 for your cure>Your cure reaches 5 people at mostFixed that for you
>>735874334Balatro most recently, a single dev doing it in his free time that he only put on Steam because he wanted to have that line on his resume.
>>735877923Both were new IP rehashes of the same fucking game, and were made for nobody but fart huffing devs. That's like a 0/10 game, not a 5/10 one.
