What's up with this
the niggas that hate turn based combat hate fighting games let that sink in
No story no buy.
>>735878890
>>735878890schmups havent changed in the slightest in 40 years. you played one of them in the 90s and you've played them all
Gameplay first means the gameplay has to be good before the story matters, not that the game only has to be gameplay. If the gameplay is shit it doesn't matter if it's the only thing a game has, it's still a shit game.
>>735879183Have you played Hellsinker
42 year old snub cooks up shmup discussion the old fashion way
/v/ lies all the time
>>735879183there's a slight difference between Raiden-likes where your hitbox is the entire plane and enemies just shoot at you randomly, and 2hu-likes where your hitbox is the girl's 3 pixel wide cooch and 90% of the screen is filled with bullet patterns
>>735878890>DDP DOJIkeda said he regrets making this game and most of his others too hard and that he was basically forced to do it to help arcades with their income.>Battle GareggaYagawa also said the same above with regards to the harsh rank system found in the game.>Gradius IIIThis game was rushed and didn't have any extensive playtesting. They made it too hard in because the previous game was considered too easy.Basically people avoid these games because they are by design too hard and require months to even reach a simple clear.
If shmupslop was really the most gameplay-first genre then it would have an active modding scene. Instead it has speedrunning tier autists memorizing patterns on the 'cord. Sad fail genre for sad fail people.
>>735879415>active modding scenethe games are so simple that you actually just make your own new game
Go play Mars Matrix.
>>735879415Those two things are completely unrelated, a modding scene and being a gameplay-heavy genre. Try again, tardlard.
>>735879084No excuse
>>735879415trvke
>>735878890Bullethell games suck ass. They're just rote memorization and nothing more.
In case you haven't worked it out from the numerous splinter boards designed to actually talk about video games /v/ is a board of gossipy women who talk endlessly of ecelebs and waifu wars, with the only games generation any meaningful discussion being degenerate FOTM indie VNs with again, waifus. If any gameplay focused game does get attention the gameplay is so simplistic even women can beat them (Smash Bros, Dark Souls, bing bing wahoos).
>>735878940I think those are two different types of people completely
>>735878890The more your game relies of twitch reflexes the more for subhumans it is.Simple as
>>735879803just like learning an instrumentand chess openingsor dark soulsor crossword puzzles
>>735879867lmao nah niggerbullethell games are the secret bosses of JRPGs there's only one way to really play and if you don't you lose, simple asyou can take three of the best players in any single bullet hell game and they'll all play the exact same way
>>735879951yeah nigga, two guys playing wonderwall are gonna sound the fucking same toobitch, I bet you haven't even played a shmup
>>735878890they're fun the first time you play when you actually have to react to the game, after the first playthrough it literally becomes a game about autistically memorizing patterns
>>735880000yes I agree, racing games suck
>>735879994i played and finished lords of thunder a week agobullethell games suck ass they're for autismos such as yourself
>>735878890>Gameplay first genreCool, what can you do with it? Heaps of various mechanics right?>Oh lol no you go left and right and hold the shoot button
>>735880053>go left and right and hold the shoot buttonnigga you just described 90% of all games
>>735880083>nigga you just described 90% of all gamesAnd 90% of all games are dogshit, what's your point?
>>735878890witcher 1 has an objectively shit gameplay, but everything else is incredibly good, especially the atmosphere.
Is this good?The demo was like a smhup mixed with Danganronpa vn parts.
>>735880053>Game mechanics distilled to perfection without bloat are actually a bad ideaYou hate video games, just admit it.
>>735880710Why are you here and not on /vr/ when videogames peaked for you with atari 2600?
>>735879867This is some peak cope.
le so hardcore culture around STGs is the worst thing I swear.I will force all of you to play exclusively Cute 'em ups until you learn to embrace the silliness without a massive stick up your ass, be the last thing I do.
>>735879415Danmakfu existedAnd kind of sucked since you're stuck with the constraints of the 2.5d PC games where you can't do anything cool like add background enemies that used to be a staple of the 98 era.
>>735878890I knew precisely one man who liked schmups and he cut his dick off
I play these games but the store tags make it hard to sort em. I play mushihimesama quite a bit. I don't talk to other shump fans much or gamers in general. I have a strict vow of silence on most platforms
>>735882763If you are into the arcade ones, why not using the various mamepacks instead?
I fixed the image for you OP.
>>735882829I stick to ports of candy cabs instead of mame. I don't mind mame but I opted to just buy the xbox 360 port of mushihimesama futari and such. (Literally is region free)>>735882864Both this and op are correct. It's still going to be argued because this board is mostly not people.
>>735882864Well, unlike shmups you will usually require to join something like Discord to play those.
>>735878890/V/e only play gacha games here
>>735878890i'm not going to play your dead genre, sorry
>it's troonimai faggot again
>>735878890Gameplay first, but GOOD gameplay, so not shmups.
Don't ask a shmuckfag to actually play (credit feed) a game that wasn't made by Cave or Raizing.
>>735882191I do like things like Cotton, Harmful Park or Twinbee>>735883009Nah it's not him, he can't resist avatarfagging and attentionwhoring on top of lying about everything so you can easily single him out.Besides, he's a pathetic subhuman who only exist to infest threads other people create rather than creating them himself, these threads existed way before he got the mork schizo meltdown that pushed him into trying to get a reputation as le hardcore gameplay first gaymer
>>735883348>I do like things like Cotton, Harmful Park or TwinbeeNice. They don't make them as often anymore unfortunately(except Cotton still getting games).
>>735880182Not really, you might enjoy it if you liked kakegurui (same writer) but otherwise the story is dogshit and the shmup portion completely unremarkable
If you try to "sight read" past the most entry level shmups you will very quickly hit a wall and then when you start looking up meta strats and grinding the same level over and over they become gay
for me it's eschatossimple, to the point, amazing soundtrack and cool vintage ufo designs
>>735878890If shmups are "the most gameplay-first genre imaginable" to you, then you don't have lots of imagination.Also /v/ rarely claims to be "gameplay-first", especially these days. There's much more posts about graphics whoring and goonbait than gameplay, simple because there isn't much to discuss about gameplay.
>>735883521>become gayThat's the first step you take before taking up shmups in the first place.
>>735882864Fighters have a significant graphical element tho. There's a reason they were one of the first genres to embrace 3D graphics.
>>735879183He says this yet this board acts like a generic gacha is somehow different from others and happily consooms generic open world ubislop.
>>735878890but shmups don't have good gameplay
>>735883705It's straight to want to fly a cool space ship/jet and shoot things, but that's why you play combat flight sims instead
>>735883824Flight sims are even more gay than bullet hell shmups. Take Afterburner Climax pill.
>>735883824>It's straight to want to fly a cool space ship/jet and shoot thingsDude. Have you SEEN Top Gun? They had to add a hetero love story sub-plot with sex scenes simply because without it Maverick would come up gay.
The most gameplay heavy genre is racing games tho.
Now THIS is pure gameplay
>>735878890memorization is not gameplaySHMUPs should move to randomized enemy waves and rely on reaction time and real time tactics alone
>>735878890>gameplay firstEveryone knows aesthetics come first tho? Why do people constantly have to make up strawmen in their heads?If gameplay was first people wouldn't take issue with ugly, woke aesthetics.aesthetics > gameplay > soundtrack > graphics > story
I mostly don't care about story too much except if it's distractingly bad like in doom eternal where I cringed and uninstalled kek
>>735878890Gameplay first is the reason the games on the right stink, cause their gameplay fucking sucks.
/v/ is an RPG and puzzle board.
>>735879414>Ikeda said he regrets making this game and most of his others too hard and that he was basically forced to do it to help arcades with their incomeThis is a lie, he said DOJ white label was too hard, (the WL 2-all is, but this was because they were overcorrecting DDP being way too easy) which he corrected in black label. IKD does not think his games, as a whole, are too hard and he says using bombs in shmups are for ladies. DOJ has a very lenient difficulty curve in the 1-all.
>>735878890>2d space ship shooter these are mini games in Gacha games and other games now. Why it was ever a "genre" is retarded. They're boring and offer nothing complex. A literal 2 button game for toddlers. Not even sure why you'd think they're gameplay first unless you mean literal.
>>735882191If you played twinkle star for real, with actual humans as it's meant to be played, you'd know it's a very trolly and unforgiving game about relentlessly harassing people.
>>735887138It won't be around much longer then.
>>735878890What gameplay? You retards' idea for advancing the genre amounted to "let's just put more bullets on the screen". I'd rather go back to B-Wings if I wanted a shmup.
>>735888079 twinkle star is literally just puyo with hitboxes and cute witch skin it's only “deep” when both players are cracked and actually routing chains instead of panic mashing. 99% of matches are just someone eating random bullshit because the screen turns into particle soup.cool concept, god tier soundtrack, but let’s not pretend it isn’t a party game pretending to be esport material. the harassment meta is funny though, I’ll give you that.
>>735883273But I cleared a bunch of games by taito and psyiko? And indies as well? I don't even like raizing.>but you gotta play muh comiket shitI did play through a bunch of touhou games. They're shit. Every second you spend playing that is a waste of time.>console gamesThose are literally free and garbage 99% of the time.
>>735888079Your point being?>>735888259Puyo is a strange comparison to make, other than the obvious puzzle game mechanicsBut sure, it's not intended to be esports material.
>>735888376>it's not intended to be esports material.It actually is
>>735878890>/v/ is one personmight as well post some lewd images stop wasting my time fool
>>735888408Nah, not at all. Even at high level it's about dying to absolutely stupid bullshit.
>>735888543If its not mechanically interesting guess there's no reason to play it then
>>735888583It is mechanically interesting though. Just not truly comparable to a fightan game.Without overexplaining too much, there is just enough you are able to control and predict, but also genuinely random elements that can create fully inescapable situations.It's a bit like playing competitive pokemon where you still have misses and crits.
>>735888907But only a fat idiot would play competitive pokemon
>>735883776yes, genshin impact and umamusume are extremely different games, certainly moreso than ikaruga and touhou
>>735888986Or one who doesn't have a stick up his ass and can only conceive games in terms of le hardcore of le jarpigs. TSS players would harass you IRL.
>>735883776I am not those menI am Salah ad-Din
>>735889054Well genshin impact is not a game at all, and umamusume is a slot machine simulator wrapped around a horse racing advertisement, so I guess that is correct
>>735889151saying genshin isn't a game is like saying botw wouldn't be a game if you added mtx to it and is just a retarded statement. bad games are still games.
>>735889227No genshin is literally a fake game, nothing you do in it matters, its all illusory. It should not be allowed on any video game board. Umamusume is at least a game of luck, which is still technically a game, just not a very interesting one, but still arguably deeper than any rpg ever made mechanically.
>>735878890>fun games played almost exclusively by insufferable spergs who scare off new bloodSimple as.
>>735889338nothing you do in any game matters, the world doesn't care that you beat super mario bros in 1993
>>735889380Don't reply to troonimai poster.
>>735889380It's obvious what you are and why you're getting so butthurt over genshin being called out.
>>735889338>shmuptranny is also gachacucktalk about life giving you a bad a hand
Always reply to 4chanimai posters.
Gameplay is the story.You learning a boss moves, exploring the world, or learning a level's quirks is a story of how you beat the game.
>>735889425you've failed to make a coherent argument about literally the first two gacha games that came to mind that i used as examples
>>735889482You can't fool me
>>735889572don't have stupid positions and you won't lose online arguments
>>735878890Shmups aren't hard, they are built around credit feeding. Their perceived "difficulty" stems from tranny-adjacent autistic self-imposed challenges such as "1CC-ing".
>>735889803I outscore /v/'s favorite e-celebs
>>735889338>horsefucker thinking "mlp, japan" is any more of a game than any of the other gachaslop trash
>>735879183puzzle-shmups like radiant silvergun are unique though?
>>735878890Those games aren't fun, tho.
>>735879414Gradius 3 arcade is the most bullshit game I've ever played
>>735892835Actually yes. That skirts the line between being just a hard game and something that's almost actively hostile to being played.
>>735878890no one on this board actually plays video games, just complains, especially if the game is popular.it's like those glamor shots you see in subreddits for games with photomode. those people dont actually play the game, they just take wallpaper shots with photomode for upvotes./v/ and reddit are the same people, just different faggotry.
A pathetic thread for a pathetic genre.
>>735892880>Who the fuck's going to dodge that the first time it happens!?That, stage 10, the bubbles popping in on stage 2 meaning you have to know where there are beforehand to avoid getting hit the millisecond they appear on the screen; DDP, Ketsui, BG and Psykio games all felt at least fair most of the time
I love the Raiden series Mars Matrix.Thank you for reading my post
Why are we not allowed to have real shmup threads, only the shitty bait threads the mentally ill janny makes
>>735893207>DDP? That one is perfectly fine in terms of "you can 1-ALL this on your first run">KetsuiDefinitely worse because bullets move in odd ways, and generally has DOJ baseline difficulty at very least. But it's nowhere near what I would call "bullshit", just difficult and not meant to be an intro to the genre.>BGThe problem with Gayregga is that you have to get in the mindset to play the rank game more than the actual shmup part.>Psikyo gamesAll fair and balanced. As you can clearly see here there is nothing you couldn't dodge, no memo required or anything.
>>735893463The Dark Souls marketing campaign was a mistake. These threads were great before tryhards started actively sabotaging threads for new and experienced players. God forbid you don't care about 1CC and want to talk about a game.
>>735893207This is more a horizontal shooter problem and an over-reliance on stage hazards and positioning options.
>>735893463you can't have "real threads" about a dead genre that a couple of redditors performatively pretend to enjoy
shmup thread? shmup thread!
>>735878890i dont see age of empires there
>>735893587>>735893587Lmao what the fuck they shoot random spread every time or am I retarded?
>>735878890What is "Gameplay first"?
>>735893832Nevermind, I'm genuinely confused and don't see where everything is coming from.
>>735893587>webmI think this might actually be the hardest psyiko game even though the bullets are slower, it's so easy to get walled because you were in a bad spot or didn't quick kill something
>>735878890I just hate storyfags and the story constantly getting in the way.
>>735893832It's just a basic aimed spread with 3 bullets(with the center aiming at you). Though the fire rate and speed depends on rank and has a bit of randomness to it. The joke is about the hand firing walls instantly and if you are in those positions you just die instantly period.>>735893957Harder than something like Gunbird, but not quite the hardest. Still, it promotes aggressive gameplay and especially abusing charge attacks. Rank is also more harsh than usual, but the bullets would slow the fuck down if you died even once or bombed enough.
>>735893621>God forbid you don't care about 1CCIf you can't even 1cc what is there to talk about lol
>>735894052>Harder than something like Gunbird, but not quite the hardestWhat would you call harder? Because dragon blaze and strikers sure doesnt seem harder, I can't even play this game without aine
>>735883348>the mork schizo meltdownQrd?
>>735889803They're actually designed to be 1cc'd as the true last boss won't appear if you use a continue, and the leaderboard will show if you used another credit.
I really like Cotton Rock n Roll. What else should >>735894065Some people just play, get to a certain point, die, then do something else. I still play Gradius V sometimes and may never 1CC that game (just played it 2 days ago so its my most recent example.Shitting on people for not playing for mastery and just because they find the game to be fun is what killed this genre. It's like telling people to stop playing rhythm games like DJ Max because they can't PP Sin -The Last Stand- MX or Nightmare SC. It's fucking stupid and killed your genre.
>>735894126I found both of those harder than SB but idk, it helps that I'm used to horizonal.Also mostly comparing first loop, cause SB second loop is actual fuckin BS that's true. Up there with Gunbird 2.
>>735894278>Shitting on people for not playing for mastery1cc isn't mastery dude, learning the game is the bare minimum for discussion.
>>735894352And you can't chase those people away who are interested before they can do the bare minimum or you'll eventually have nothing but three 45 year old men wondering why no one want to play shmups.
You play one shmup you've played them all, and any game with a unique gimmick like Minishoot' Adventures or Ikaruga, the hardcore STGfags will tell you they're not real games and that unique mechanics are bad unless they're directly related to score grinding.
>>735894483If you're not seriously interested in the genre that what is there really to talk about?
>>735894573Almost all shmups have unique gimmicks.
>>735894573>play Twinkle Star Sprites with randos or CPUs>suddenly become able to beat Inbachi in SDOJYep, that's how it works, can confirm.
>>735894573Ikaruga is well liked in the STG community. But we also like to talk about other games too. Minishoot is cute but it's not really made for skilled players.
RPGs are fundamentally anti video games and anti-fun. ArcadeGODs reign supreme.
>>735894573I've been the one saying not to chase new players away, but there has to be a hardline or shmups will turn in a genre like roguelikes where all of its identity has been stripped away. There's so much variety in the shmup genre already that you don't need to do gay shit like adding metroidvania and metaprog to """""freshen"""" i.e. rape the genre
>>735894339Dragon Blaze 1-all is like free if you use Rob, I just did Ian and it wasn't that bad outside of just having super shit bombs.
anyone who doesn't love both story heavy games and pure gameplay games is a faggot, I'm sorry to say. mix it up a little for fucks sake.
>>735889425I notice you do this retarded "I KNOW WHAT YOU ARE!" thing every time someone calls you out on your retardation. It makes no sense to anyone other than your retarded ass, we have no idea what you're babbling about.
>>735894806Minishoot's biggest flaw is it's too easy. But a well designed easy game is better than a boring hardcore one. Get it?
>>735894870>95% of the catalogue is story slop and hyper casual roguelite deckbuilders>m-mix it up a littleLOL LMAO EVEN
>>735883521I listen to this in the gymhttps://youtu.be/kYmgo6Z8sgo?si=9ZigaKfZSMtA_ory
>>735895181You would get btfo if you played StS come off of it.
>>735878890only the mentally ill would waste their time trying to get perfect runs.
>>735894483The bare minimum is a willingness to learn. Which will result in a 1cc.
>>735895181>story slopstopped reading there, if i cared about the opinions of children i'd talk to my own
>>735895356Bananaman wasn't even wrong.But like, he's talking about trying to get WR scores in a multiloop game.
>>735879826They're the same people. The person who says turn based is boring and also that fighting games are too hard because theres too much to memorise so you ask them what they enjoy and its inavriably gunslop and faster-gun slop. Then you ask them if they like very fast or old gunslop and they say no.The majority of people who play games are retarded and only like one thing. Or are retarded and like extrenely terrible things but swear on all that is holy that its good.
>>735878890What's up with this
>>735895583People who worship arcade games aren't known for their intelligence.
>>735894831>There's so much variety in the shmup genre alreadyName me a single good jetsnguns type shmup released recently if there are so much variety.
>>735895661The only good shmup developers (Cave, G.Rev, Capcom, Milestone, Konami) don't do it anymore. Shmups still get released, but they're by trash developers cashing in on the retro trends.
>>735895447That's my point, but we have at least 1 resident schizo who make it their mission to shut down any type of shmup thread if people aren't already experienced, including someone looking for recommendations to try the genre out just for bringing up the "wrong" games (pretty much any indie including great games like Crimzon Clover and Eschatos).
>>735895936Capcom doesn't make shmups, they publish them. And Konami and milestone are shit.
>>735896161Milestone is incredible. I could get an orgasm playing Radirgy or Chaos Field. Konami is mostly mediocre with high points (specifically Gradius 3 and Life Force).
>>735896087Bruh you don't need to be experienced to 1cc a shmup. And you shouldn't play Crimzon Clover if you're a beginner because you aren't going to beat arcade mode and novice just sucks. TAC, the dev, is a very experienced CAVE playtester and super player, and you should probably play a few cave games first like ddp and mushi. Yeah eschatos is good for beginners but people buy the other Qute games because they're cheap and they just suck ass. Like maybe it's your own perceptions that are wrong. This isn't a genre where you can pick weird games to be an epic quirkster and show them off in your hipster 3x3 or whatever. Just play the damn games, worry about the weird shit later.
>>735879228why not simple release a shmoop where there's a compelling story??
>>735896429Because that alienates 2 audiences:>shmupfags want 15 minute loops of pure memorization>storyfags want to watch the game play itself
>>735896429There are plenty of shmups that feel like your on like some epic saga, play rayforce. You literally fight your way into the center of the earth and blow it up.
>>735896429You don't think mid stage text crawls are compelling?
>>735894573Minishoot is based. I will agree with you that STGfags can be really obnoxious about difficulty. They'll call games shit because there's bullet patterns their autistic asses learned how to deal with 400 hours ago despite those being perfectly fine and challenging for normal people. If you want a good shmup never go to the ones they recommend because they're almost always autistically difficult and impenetrable for a new player.
>>735896561way to spoil it asshole
>>735878890Arcades died for a reason.
>>735896850The reason being that level of hardware became more accessible at home so there was no reason to go to arcades to experience it anymore. It had nothing to do with STGs.
>>735896786Well I didn't spoil it and you'll have to 1cc it to see how it all ends. Plenty of shmups that focus on presentation. Like why would anyone even play Mahou if not for it being an ebin adventure, that game sucks
any shmup that has been 1cc'd is trivial and not worth discussion
>>735896429They did that, it's called Nier Automata
>>735879803>It's just route memorization and nothing moreWhat games do you play that don't ask you to learn anything about how it plays?Games are about getting good at them; shmups are that just on another level, and aren't a unique casePrecision platformers, rhythm games...Wait, all those genres are considered "tranny games" because people just fucking suck at video games, I finally get it
DOOM 2016 -PROMISED- NO STORY IN THE -BEGINNING- OF THE GAME WHEN DOOMGUY BREAKS THE ELEVATOR LADY TALKING ABOUT THE STORY AND IT WAS P HYPED AND THEN >LE ROBOT MAN USING LE HELL!!! XD XD FOR ENERGY BUT LE SCEITNEIST WOMAN IS LE EVIL AND WATCH OUT THE DEMONS ARE LE ATTACKING MULTIPLE CUTSCENES
>>735878890>/v/ claims to be gameplay first>favorite games are always games that put cinematic presentation and stories ahead of gameplay like HL2 and Deus Ex
i really want to like shmups but they all filter me really hard i could only beat zero ranger and gunnac
>>735879415>the most gameplay-first genre>then it would have an active modding sceneI don't see how adding CJ, Thomas the Tank Engine or naked women would be the first priority in a gameplay first game
>>735897462If you can 2-all zeroranger you can beat a lot of shmups dude, you're just not applying yourself
>>735897217Why are you typing like a spastic?
>>735897516You don't need to 2-all zeroranger to beat it. You can pick to start at the last level and then beat the TLB while using as many credits as you want (as long as you grinded them beforehand).
>>735896697>I will agree with you that STGfags can be really obnoxious about difficulty. They'll call games shit because there's bullet patterns their autistic asses learned how to deal with 400 hours ago despite those being perfectly fine and challenging for normal peopleIt's not interesting to "dodge" a spiral pattern with a mile wide lane in it, throw some bullets down the lane. It's not elitist to expect basic game design.
>>735897697That doesn't sound like beating it.
>>735878890I love shmups but lets not pretend their appeal is universal.Most people don't enjoy memorizing and practicing something that's so intense you could use that time to learn something else.Really, for all the time you spend trying to 1CC MushiDonpachiGaluda Ranger TouHOuJou Futari Black Label Resurrection Unlimited World Ignition x Zanac you could get to a decent level at a creative artform of your choice.This is especially true because unlike other game genres like platformers and fighting games the skills you learn arent as transferable to other games in the genre. If you learn Super Turbo, you'll pick up skills that transfer to other fighting games and you'll spend less time learning and more time having fun. If you master a shmup, you'll pick up a few skills but you'll still get stuck on stage 3 of the next shmup because the genre relies on memorization
>>735897619how many years you been on this website and how old are you
>>735879867>just like learning an instrumentExcept with learning an instrument you can write your own music, improv over existing music, and people actually respect you.
>>735878890I feel like rhythm games have a stronger gameplay focus than schmups
>>735897745If you saw the ending you beat it.
>>735897702Oh look there's one here now. Nobody listen to anything he says.
>>735878890>autistic retard thinks everyone else on the internet is the same personEvery time. Shmups are a genre that only autistic people can enjoy past the age of 10 or so. It's just torturous repetition and memorisation.
>>735897498That's not an active mod scene, zoomer. That's dumb model swap slop people make day one.
>>735878890Gameplay is first the problem is that most 'people' on /v/ do not play video games.
Damn, /v/ really is bad at video games.
>>735878890Are you that faggot who invades every Hi-Fi Rush thread to scream about an optional QTE?
>>735878890any sane person who played games before will quickly come to the conclusion that the lack of complexity of shmups makes them uninteresting.literally just moving a pixel on the screen. zero physics and momentum. difficulty then taken ad absurdum because it offers literally nothing else.something like super mario bros is infinitely more thrilling.
>>735898263>he wants physics and momentum in his shmupFucking lmao
>>735897795>Most people don't enjoy memorizing and practicing something that's so intense you could use that time to learn something else.I disagree with this, people will play a barebones repetitive jrpg for 120 hours for piecemeal badly translated and boring dialogue, when you could 1cc a shmup in 10-30 hours.>This is especially true because unlike other game genres like platformers and fighting games the skills you learn arent as transferable to other games in the genreThis also isn't true, like espgaluda uses functionally similiar stage design to the DDP series and you'll be applying the same strategies there with fresh gimmicks or harder challenges. Like espgaluda just feels like DOJ-lite to me. And the more games you play the more similarities you'll see between games and different developers, and the more you can appreciate their variations. And playing ST isn't gunna prepare you for playing something like jojoban or whatever, get real. All that's gunna teach you is the fireball game, and not a very good one, like Ryu won't teach you how to play Avdol even though his gameplan is similar.
>>735898305>every game in this genre MUST play the exact same with zero variety or innovation!Genuine autism.
>>735898305I generally dont want anything in this basic genre and left it behind in the 90s.
when will someone ban this avatartroon?
>>735898331Playing a shmup for 10 hours is more repetitive than playing any RPG for 120 hours.
>>735898381Asking for physics and momentum in a shmup is like asking construction workers to dig holes with pool noodles instead of shovels. That's not "innovation" that's doing it wrong because you think you know better than almost 50 years of game design.
>>735898331Jrpgs are a relaxing experience; you walk around and talk to people, do some quests, grind some areas, etc. They dont require fine movements or intense memorizationAnd yes, Shmups rely heavily on memorization. There are tons of shmups that throw shit at you that there is no way to predict on the first play-through. Go 1CC the original Donpachi and tell me how long it taked
>>735898331I have never seen someone say the dumbest shit imaginable about fighting games with so much confidence.
>>735898465>this genre has been the same thing for 50 years, it shall never change ever!This is what autism looks like.
>>735898465its not 50 years of game design though.its about ten years of game design at most and then its just retreading ground infinitely.
>DID YOU SAY HECKING ONIMAI'S?*Sips IPA*>ONIMAI IS HECKIN ANIME OF THE YEAR LEFTYPOL SISTERS!!!!!!>OMG OMG OMG OMG>HECKING EPIC POGGY WOCKY SLUSH!!!!>NOOOOOO STUPID SHONENTARD NAZI WE DO REEED WE DO REEEEEEEEED NOOOOOOO CHAINSAW MAN AND FRIEREN ARE STUPID ANIME!! 1735! 1735! 1735!>IS THAT POGGY WOGGING HECKIN WHOLESOME CHUNGUS ONIMAI WOCKY SLUSH !!!!>i literally can't right now!!!>I GET SO EXCITED ABOUT IT I KNEEL! I KNEEL FOR MY BLACK MASTER! WOCKY SLUSH !!!!>THE GENDER CHANGING COLA REMINDS ME OF MY HECKIN DILATOR AND MY DISCORD CLAN.>SUS BRO I LOVE TWITTER LMAO DREAM IS SO FUNNI HAHAHA REDDIT BRUH LMAO LIKE HIM HATE HIM HE SPITTING STRAIGHT FACTS LEL LE> I LOVE REDDIT YALL YALL YALL HAHA SEE I WHO I GET TO SEE HAHA LMAO THIS IS JUST LIKE MINECRAFT!!!HORNY ON MAIN??>SELFCARE CRINGE BRO BE LIKE BE LIKE HE PROTECC HE ATTACC BUT MOST IMPORTANTLY SHE REALLY SAID OK BOOMER AND THATS VALID BRO WE NEED TO TALK ABOUT SIIIIMPS! LITERALLY NO CAP>I AM SHE/THEY ON TWITTER AN I’M BOUT TO END THIS WHOLE MAN’S CAREER MY GUY MY GUY MY GUY BORK BORK DOGGO FRFR ACAB BLM #PROUDFURRY JOIN MY DISCOOOOORD>ITS SO HECKING COOL, THE MAKERS ARE EVEN COMMUNISRLTINO POG LORDS LIKE ME WHO TOOK THE KNEE FOR MR SAINT FLOYD (MAY YAKUB REST HIS SOUL)>SUCH A EPIC POOGERS SHOW I CAN'T WAIT TO POST THIS ON ®EDDIT!!! WOCKY SLUSH !!!!>#pogchamp WOCKY SLUSH !!!!>IT'S GOING… IT'S GOING…. AND YEEESSSSS THE BBC HAS LANDED INTO MY WIFE OH MY SCIENCE THIS IS A GLORIOUS DAY I FEEL SO EMPOWERED LETTING ANOTHER MEN FUCK MY WIFE JUST LIKE MY FRIEND>MAYBE I WILL TAKE OUT A LOAN SO THOSE TWO CAN GO ON VACATION DID YOU SEE THE HECKIN CUTE DILATING LOLI (MALE, NO PENIS)?>LET ME POST THIS ON MY TIK TOK!!!>W-WHAT??? DID THAT BULL JUST MISGENDER ME??? OH NO NO NO I'M TOTALLY NOT MENTALLY ILL OR ANYTHING BUT THAT'S ENOUGH TO PUSH ME OVER THE EDGE>I CAN'T LIVE ANY LONGER… GOODBYE *hangs himself*
>>735898459I don't know bro, I'd rather 1cc ketsui than "play" persona 4. Think of all the cool shit you could have done in that time.
>>735897795What the fuck are you talking about? Shmup skills are absolutely transferable to other games, in the same way fighting game skills are. Just look at shmup pros playing a new shmup for the first time compared to beginners. Most of the time they'll get much further, if not 1CC it, unless there's some really strong knowledge checks in it. The same way an experienced fighting game player can figure out how to play a new game and be better at it much faster than a new player.
>>735898486>Go 1CC the original Donpachi and tell me how long it takedIt took me 2 hours to 1-all ddp
>>735898592>Think of all the cool shit you could have done in that time.Like play some autistic memorizer to show off to the sisters in the 'cord? No thanks.
>>735896429because the gameplay has to be good
>>735898527Yeah he doesnt know what he is talking about. Pick up Super Turbo and you'll learn footsies, buffering, kara cancels, crossups, and tons of other tech/setups/concepts that are prevalent in other fighters even today.
>>735898532You don't change the core basics of something, no. Innovation can happen but if you change what you're asking to change you end up with Euroshmups, which everyone agrees are awful, even casual players.
>>735898653Proof or it didnt happen. I also 1CC'd Radiant Silvergun first try
>>735898796>"learning" crossupsIs this retard serious lol, just throw loop a nigga and walk under him, st ain't that deep
>>735898851>You don't change the core basics of something, no.And here is why the genre is only played by troons, it's autism slop.
>>735878890>most gameplay first genreThose aren't rhythm games.>bare minimum graphics>no story
>>735898857I unironically don't upload my shitclears because I get bullied
>>735898625There are a few things that transfer but the genre prioritizes memorization. If you could 1CC a shmup just because you mastered previous shmup arcades would have never made money hosting shmups to begin with.A good fighting game player like JWong can be top level at just about any 2D fighting he touches the first time. There are no pros who can 1CC all shmups first try.
>>735898263This. How am I supposed to care about a 'gameplay-forward' genre, if it isn't the kind of gameplay I like?
>>735898851euroshmups are the only shmups casuals would bother trying in the first place because it's the only chance that a shmup might be good (but it's not because the genre is fundamentally dogshit)
>>735898905The point is, its a concept that you learn in the game that is transferable to 99% of later fighters. But you don't want to have a conversation, you just want to larp as a nigger
>>735878940fighting games are literally turn based
>I unironically don't upload my shitcl-ACK!!!
>>735899032>casuals are retardedYeah, I agree
>>735899062I unironically feel modern games are better for fundamentals because they are very dryly centered around esports and there's very clearly defined lines on how pressure works, when it's your turn, etc., rather than limping over fireballs with boxer and beating shotos to death the second you get in with absolutely unhinged pressure and high priority boxes
>>735899220I get it
>troonimai post and now jak postergrim
>>735899312and so are shmup players
>>735898906Only skilled gamers are able to tackle shmups. I understand if that makes you feel threatened, it's okay.
>>735899438Only autists are interested in spending hours grinding out the incredible skill of "knows where to place his hitbox in a 30 year old game"
>>735899507>>735899434Why are you so hostile just because people are better at video games than you? You can just play the games you're good at, even if they're not high skill games. There's no need to lash out.
>>735899698>xhe grinds out shmups day and night because they're "high skill" to impress the fellow sisters in the 'cordThis isn't even a joke at this point, this is someone's actual "life".
>>735899698i care too much about the integrity of the medium of games to let shmup fans go freely about their business as though their genre of choice is good
>>735899359Thats another thing, the skills are so transferable you could learn even a modern fighter and it'll make learning previous entries easier.The point is, if you learn something like Super Turbo, SF6, KoF '98, etc. Itll give you a foundation to build on that'll make getting to a competent level in all other 2D fighters easier. A perfect example is the rank system in SF6. If you are a Fightcade sweat or a SFV vet, there was a good chance you got into Diamond ranks right from the start. With Shmups, the focus is much more memorization based. No matter how hard these shmup trannies cope, this is true. There is no Jwong of shmups who can jump into any shmup and get a 1CC reliably on the first try.
>>735899220I guess fighting in real life is turn based too.
>>735878890Shmups are not gameplay games whatsoever for the skilled/enthusiast players. Only players who run out of continues and shit are actually "playing" shmupsIt's amazing how wrong some people are lol. Madden is literally more gameplay than shmups when played by shmup players.
>>735899220>>735899895Call of Duty is also turn based, and also an RPG
>>735899438Come on, dude >>735892880
>>735899885>There is no Jwong of shmups who can jump into any shmup and get a 1CC reliably on the first try.I played with jwong a couple times and the reason he's so good at fighting games is because he loves learning. He's not just intuitively good.
>>735899789>>735899809>Still goingYou could be playing video games right now and getting better at them you know. Maybe one day you could even play an actually challenging one like a good shmup!
>>735900114>a good shmupNo such thing I'm afraid. Arcadeslop is not worth playing in 2026.
>>735900101>jwong loves learning>Dr. Henry Wong wrote the educator's proverbial bibleMaybe I was Wong about chinks all this time
>>735899885You can't 1CC reliably on your first try but you also can't get to the highest rank on your first run at a fighting game without losing, even if you are JWong. Someone like JWong would just learn faster and take less time to get there, just like how a shmup pro would also learn faster and take less time to 1CC. There's memorization (knowledge checks) in both genres, I don't know why you're so hellbent as portraying both as vastly different.
>>735900101Sure but you are denying legacy skill. He can pick up a fighting game he's never even heard of and, on the very first match, he would destroy all fighting game sweats in /v/ and /fgg/.
You mean the game where you have to memorize paths?
>>735899885Even rhythm games have transferrable skill. You can become competent playing IIDX, DJMT, Technika, Jubeat or others and you'll jump into newer rhythm games 98%+ clearing harder charts regardless of control scheme or mechanical differences between games.
>>735900327>>735900452They exist in both but Shmups are more 30% skill 70% memorization and fighting games are the inverse.bThe point is, it's a much less rewarding process to learn a shmup.The juice isn't worth the squeeze for most players. Theres more juice in other genres.
>>735900354Jwong cannot beat a top player on day one and if he could that would mean the game is probably not very good. That's the sign of a bad genre. Like this genre >>735900452
>>735878890That dragon is cool as fuck dude
>>735900627Not the very top, but he could beat 99% of players on the first match. He could also become a pro 10x faster than someone without legacy skill.Keep splitting hairs tho shmup tranny
>>735900737>Not the very top, but he could beat 99% of players on the first matchBut 99% of fighting game players are shit
>>735900627What kind of weird ass logical process did your brain execute to help you draw the conclusion that fundamentals existing in a genre make that genre "bad". Every shmup should just shit on the screen then, who cares if only 3 people bought the game because it was bullshit, right?
>>735900114i'm playing good games right now actually
What makes Ray'z so good anyway
>>735900809If fighting games were just all playing footsies they'd be pretty shitty and there'd be no reason to keep making them. Like how many iterations of overlapping rectangles do you need
>>735901027There are 3 ray games of varying degrees of quality
>>735901032Your post is painfully ironic in a shmup thread.
>>735878890>gameplay first genre>the gameplay is assHmm...
>>735901718Bro you just dont get it. Moving a ship around in 8 directions while mashing shoot is peak
>>735898851Euroshmups are the only shmups worth playing.
The formula of a shmup boils down to> i shoot things up and the feedback is good and it's not monotonousAnd with danmaku games there's also another point which is> i want to understand and gracefully dodge a really cool patternAnd both are fine.They're structured like endurance runs by their nature due to being built for arcades, but a lot of things that structure them like endurance runs also set limitations like > i wanna practice this boss, but "practice" is not designed to exist unless i'm a bitch for playing it outside of Japan via MAMEOnce shmups started being developed with PCs in mind instead of arcades, a lot of these limitations were revised in Touhou, which introduced a practice mode for stages and actually rebalanced the games towards 1cc'ing them as a final goal, with you being able to pick your own level of challenge. There are also bite-sized spinoffs with the cool pattern side deliberately knocked up since you're given a much bigger room to experiment with them lacking a "runback" element and allowing for much greater gimmicks.The other way it was revised was by Jets'n'Guns, which made a true PC shmup by chopping the whole campaign into missions and giving you much tighter control over how your ship shoots and how will it fit the challenge presented in separate missions, a bit like how Armored Core wants you to shake up your loadout every now and then. Also much greater room for variety, challenge and expression, like how you actually have to consider the "shooting" part with the overheat mechanics and bombs being actual bombs you have to drop.The problem is that instead of iterating on PC shmups, new wave devs started aping arcade ones instead. They're the ugliest things in existence, the gameplay is still dodging to the left and then squeezing a room to dodge to the right and repeat because of the limitations that are no longer actually there. If I wanted to play a game that is gameplay-first, I'd play Berzerker instead, it's great fun.
>>735902195Have you considered that the largest part of the audience wants to play the arcade ones?On that note, where the fuck is my "Smash bros, but it plays like TSS and it's famous shmup characters"? I'd like to note that shmups were the second biggest arcade genre for the longest time, so it's not a very far-fetched idea here.
>>735902195This isn't really true, old shmups I find are more oriented around streaming and memo, whereas new shmups introduce micrododging and more advanced scoring gimmicks. And going further, shmups have different levels of aggression, micro, memo, etc.
>>735902404Also to clarify, I file both traditional and danmaku style under arcade because the latter was made by CAVE first and foremost. 2hu didn't really invent much other than making it more aesthetically pleasing than a bunch of red and blue dots, sometimes purple.
>>735902564>2hu didn't really invent much other than making it more aesthetically pleasing than a bunch of red and blue dots, sometimes purple.2hu is actually really bad for this, the "dots" are that color for a reason. Clarity is important.
>>735902670I know really. Just saying 2hu took the more aesthetic artsy route as opposed to purely game design(including clarity) reasons. Which is fair enough if you are into that, but arcade danmakus are better gameplay games than those and that's why CAVE style emerged in the indiesphere.
>>735878890It's a porn first board
>>735901957shitposting is a art
>>735902385>"Smash bros, but it plays like TSS and it's famous shmup characters"?It's a great idea but unfortunately most people don't really care about shmup protagonists. They just don't have the same draw as putting Mario or Sonic in your game. People might know Reimu or Marisa but who the fuck is going to recognize the girl from Mushihimesama or whatever?
Beat'em ups >
shmups are such a lazy genre its insane.so low in content too. you'd expect them to be five times as long given their current day cost.
>>735904883People call shmups credit feeders but most beat-em-ups I've played are way worse in this regard. I can kind of see how someone can learn to weave their way through complex bullet patterns with practice, but how the fuck are you supposed to beat the final boss of Captain Commando without spamming dozens of quarters? That shit is obnoxiously unfun.
The least memorization-based shoot 'em up I've ever played is 1942. That game is pure chaos.Shoot'em ups rely heavily on memorization because the level layout is fixed, enemy behavior is predictable, and you destroy anything that appears on the screen relatively quickly. The more you memorize a shoot'em up, the more control you have over it.In 1942, none of that exists. Enemies keep popping up from all sides, and their behavior is pure RNG. The whole game is based on you reacting to the chaos.Unfortunately, 1942 is kind of bad, but a more modern and interesting game, based on chaos rather than autistic order, would be cool to see...
>>735904723I mean, you never knowCotton keeps getting crossovers since a while despite having 0 relevance to anyone that doesn't play shmups
>>735904723Poor Reco, I'm fairly sure she's the most recognizable CAVE girl.Maybe tied with Shotia and the more "recent" Hina? Arguably Windia is vaguely there.
>>735905741shmup girls are underrated in general. I get why, it's a genre few people actually play. The issue could also be that the characters themselves usually only appear as tiny sprites in game. Compared to something like fighting games where the characters have their asses and tits out on their huge character models while they do all their moves, despite those games also being quite unpopular with most gamers.
>>735906148I know right. Look at this cute and very hot french ninja girl.Official art btw.
>>735878890Shmup gameplay isn't fun at all. What's your point?
>>735905432It's bad because of the lack of memorization, you're literally asking for less game design
>>735878890Gameplay first doesn't mean people will enjoy poor gameplay, even if it's 100% of the game.
>>735907727Trial and error gameplay is shiiiiiiiit.
>>735908164So true sis. I should be able to blaze through the game on my first attempt.
>>735908270If I play well enough, yes.
>>735908315True true, imagine not having 12 different crutch mechanics to show how well I'm playing. Vgh, those shmups actually kill my character for getting hit and not pressing bomb...
>STGs are no longer popular because the zoomer fanbase can't stand not having crutch mechanics and pointless grinding RPG mechanics to save them from their lack of skillHow do we stop the zoomer menace from ruining video games?
>>735908714You don't. Enjoy your shit genre dying, retard.
>>735908714they were never popular lmao
>>735908387>crutch mechanicsyou mean like bombs? :)
>>735909508shut the fuck up!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
>>735879867>just like learning an instrumentAn actual skill so this comparison is fucking retarded.>and chess openingsLiterally why chess is bad.>or dark soulsLiterally why Dark Souls 3 and everything after it is bad.>or crossword puzzlesYou are actually retarded
>>735908714The last time shmups were popular was in the 80s before the genre metastasized.
FACTShmups that have game design that prioritizes score building are generic trashFACTCave has not made a good shmup since GuwangeFACTYou could be playing Change Air Blade right now, an ACTUAL versus shmup where you ACTUALLY fight your opponent as opposed to other "versus" shmup where you just send trash fodder towards them
>>735908714Shmups died in popularity the literal instant nips discovered Wizardy/Ultima and made their own versions of it. People wanted more for their money than a simplistic arcade game.
>>735883776Gacha isn't a genre you moron, it's a payment model. Unironically kill yourself.
>>735910102The core gameplay in all gachas (admiring your rolls) is the same so I'd say it's all a genre
>>735878890I don't like them.
>>735909508Case in point about shmup haters being dumb and illiterate.
>>735908315You've never played a game well in your life lol
>>735910518Tell that to leaderboards.
>>735910102NTA but the need to force pay-to-progress systems and daily logins means all gachas should be treated as gambling with chores and not videogames regardless of their genre
>>735899220The idea of "turns" is the stupidest shit the FGC has ever tried to push.
>>735910579Gambling is indeed a game. Moreso than any story oriented "game". Games are tests. Tests of skill, strategy, and.... luck. You could prune 90% of the catalogue before even thinking about anything related to gambling.
Boring repetitive and dependent on memorizing patterns and "optimizing muscle memory"When a game is so gamey that it's no longer a videogame and turns into nonsense.
>>735901027They're shmups from the tail end of the classic era before the genre died, Eschatos was largely inspired by Rayforce in terms of presentationRayforce was pretty revolutionary for its laser reticle gimmick (which also adds an interesting scoring system) and the incredible presentation which again, inspired games like Eschatos.Raystorm was Rayforce but ugly, with bombs and slightly more refined laser reticle mechanics.Raycrisis was Raystorm but it looked better and had a really cool pseudoroguelike progression where you'd go through three randomized stages out of a pool of 42 before the final boss, it also has a really cool mechanic in the form of Encroachment, a system that heavily rewards killing enemies and bosses as fast as you can and has some interesting asymmetry with the scoring system.They're some of my favorite games in the genre but they also have some pretty damning flaws, Raystorm for instance has some parts like Stage 4's first part that is highly unreadable and it's easy to die to stray projectiles that meld into the background due to poor color coding choices, Raycrisis' final boss is pretty cheap to make up for the extremely short runs, the bosses in the entire series are rather unremarkable really, Raycrisis has the best bosses and they're honestly just okay, luckily the stages are generally pretty good though Raystorm is kinda weaker than the other two imo.The music is fantastic too.
>>735896492>arcade mode>story mode
>>735910834>/v/: This video game has too much video game in itfucking wew
>>735910840>the bosses in the entire series are rather unremarkable reallyRayforce bosses are designed to be milked, and become complex once milked, and this whole post is rather mind boggling as I'd consider Rayforce a 10/10 game, Raystorm an 8/10 game, and Raycrisis a.... 2/10 game. It's like the sonic '06 of Ray games.
>>735910916Look at all this backstory.
I just got my first 1cc in Crimzon Clover!!!!!!!!!
>>735911354Cool post replay
>>735910985when a game is nothing but gameplay and said gameplay is bad then thats just 100% bad.
>>735911354Did you rike it?Don't forget, Shooting Game never dies
gameplay = obstacles + abilities. shmups were designed with artificially difficult obstacles to force players who don't understand sunk cost fallacy into losing more and more quarters to see the endings.
There is not a single good game you can beat intuitively. That's a baby game.
>>735878890Look no further than designating things as "friendslop" as if interaction isn’t a legitimate mechanic.
>>735911404is there a way to post it anonymously? tbdesu it's kinda embarrassing, I died to some stupid shit and was panic bombing during the final phase on my last life. >>735911483It was great. It took me about 8 hours of practice. I've bounced around a bunch of shmups but this was the first one I felt compelled to actually practice on.
Danmaku is the peak intuitive genre in the sense that you really only need to go along with the patterns. It's just that actually doing it is difficult.
>>735911927Oh wait is this novice
/v/ is "gameplay first" until they need to retry a fight or learn a combo or play on anything above normal difficulty without cheat codes or anything multiplayer related. This board only wants to brag about playing "hard" video games without ever really playing any.
>>735912003Try a danmaku other than normal difficulty touhou
>>735911463upvote
>>735911354based
>>735912095well its just the truth.
>>735912016perhaps......
>>735878890>Tfw Big Juicy Cancels
>>735912072I just finished saying it's actually difficult. Care to read the posts instead of replying purely by gut reaction?
>>735912203I read that you said that. I also read the first sentence, which is why you need to play other games if you genuinely believe that.
>>735910987There's nothing interesting in milking bosses, especially Rayforce bosses which can be chain staggered into nonthreats rather easily and are far from complex, let alone enjoyable.Ray'z games are all about the stages, the bosses are just kinda there outside of Raycrisis which is the only game where they actually tried with the bosses because of the stage design and the Encroachment mechanic.
>>735912365https://youtu.be/U0-wQCETYakBro what, rayforce is an insanely complicated game to score compared to raycrisis
>>735912052MvCshit and anime fighters are bad. Grinding out build orders is also cancer.
>>735912307Well I did.Danmaku variant in specific is the more intuitive version of STGs regardless of how hard the game gets, because it's designed in a way that the patterns expose their own routes. Furthermore, the hitboxes are generous in your favor, so it never feels like you had no wiggle room.
>>735912003No it's not.
>>735912719Perhaps you have very bad intuition then. Whenever you compare with traditional style especially, you notice one is designed to reveal the gaps and specific paths(that's accomplished in many different ways such as using clear pattern shapes, colors, bullet sprites and what not), the other is designed to make you think the screen is mostly safe only to slam you with a random plane coming out at 2000 "fuck yous per second" and shoot a bullet straight into your hitbox that you can't even see appear on the screen before you are already dead.
>>735899895Yes, you wait your turn to hit or you leave yourself open for attack. This can be utilized for a stronger counter if you are able to gamble for it due to better tanking stats and robust build than your opponent but in general. Its turn based. You have the "Top" and "Bottom" in terms of Wrestling; The Top is the Aggressor and the Bottom is the Defender. (The sexual lingo came afterwards due to degeneracy.)
>shoomups? you mean those old games where you fly an aircraft, make all the enemies explode while dodging bullets, and then fight a huge tank?>sounds like a cool game anon! show me your favorite shoomup!How do you respond without sounding mad?
>>735911840>good games = grindy shit designed to waste your timeNo thanks.
>>735914312You harass the shit out her(in TSS, by playing as Tinker&Linker for maximum EX attack annoyance)(then IRL if she loses)
>>735914312I show them ZeroRanger because it's my favorite
>>735912432Yeah and it's because of chaining shots in the stages, not the bosses, not sure what you're even trying to argue, nobody considers Rayforce bosses good let alone interesting.
>>735914904Damn straight for the fairies.Still better than exposing "her" to Nanja or 10 minutes worth of Schmit running circles around Death.>>735914910If somebody told me to this in a date I would fucking go home right there, and making sure to not pay the dinner.
>>735915053The midbosses and bosses dramatically change due to the milking involved.
>>735910626It's accurate tho? If you're on minus frames you literally don't get to do anything until your opponent loses his frame advantage besides a reversal if you have access to one.
>>735915343Out of curiosity, what would you say it's the most degenerate shit you can pull while playing TSS?
>>735878890I suck at these.I love these kinds of games but i suck at em.
>>735915956How about challenge somebody through retroarch to use the Saturn version of the gameplay as the chinese glasses girlOr pic rel.
>>735879183/thread
>>735879415True
>>735878940the people who love D&D will look at tactics games and say "no thanks"
>>735882889>It's still going to be argued because this board is mostly not people
>>735891059Kys Nigger
>>735879415Sad that no one remembers Frazy. One of the most popular recent SHMUPs was made by a Fraxy player.
>>735896429
>>735912052>This board only wants to brag about playing "hard" video games without ever really playing any.That's why Mork is /ourguy/!
>>735878890gameplay first is not the same as difficulty firstgameplay first is not the same as gameplay only
Gunna be real with you dudes, complaining about things like difficulty and memo sounds an awful lot like begging for inclusivity.
>>735899895
>>735910626its a figure of speech for +- frames
>>735922631I can't help your retardation.
>>735923825How is it not? /v/ will complain about normalfags and then play the most casual normalfag games ever and demand swastikas and graphic depictions of rape be added to "gatekeep" people. Like the problem is obvious dawg. You don't get casual games + gatekeeping. You shouldn't even have to think about stuff like that, the gameplay should speak for itself.
shmups are the videogame equivalent of those water handhelds where you have to shoot rings onto hooks.
>>735924334If you're retarded/watching instead of playing yeah I guess
>>735924376what do you mean? they have the same gameplay.
>>735924472Yeah this is pretty similiar, I guesshttps://youtu.be/Lo7pbKr3Q1E
>>735899220>>7358789404chan is literally a turn based fighting gameyou reply to a post and then wait for another person to reply to you so you can reply back
>Gunna be real with you dudes, complaining about things like difficulty and memo sounds an awful lot like b-ACK!!!
>>735922126>gameplay first is not the same as gameplay onlyOkay so we'll keep the shmup gameplay but add in 10 hours of cutscenes where schoolgirls call you senpai and tell you how much they want to fuck you, would that fix the genre?
>>735925268how about adding some good gameplay
>>735925463shmup gameplay is good if you have an IQ above 80
>>735925491lol
avoid the bad dots is something an amoeba might find thrilling.
>>735925491No it's not.
>>735878890Just because it's gameplay first doesn't mean that gameplay is necessarily any good, or that they are the only genre that is gameplay first. Not even trying to shittalk shmups here, the image is just a fallacy. Everything I play nowadays is extremely gameplay-first and I do not play shmups.
>>735879415>Chess isn't a real game because there aren't a million variations of it with slightly changed rules.
>>735879415m8 you can make a shmup after watching a one hour unity tutorial.there is literally nothing more basic than that.
>>735926176>Everything I play nowadays is extremely gameplay-first and I do not play shmupsDoubt it
The amount of cope being huffed in this thread could fire up a second sun.Can't just admit you're bad, gotta look down on others or twist yourselves into a mass of broken limbs, just to not admit that shmups are beyond your skill level.
>>735926627It doesn't matter whether I'm bad or not, I've beaten a few. They're not fun either way.
>>735926953What did you beat
>>735898263running and jumping with momentum and inertia isnt very complex either unless you design complex levels around it which is how both platformers and shmups actually add complexity to their gameplay. shmups generally just compensate by throwing more complex obstacles or aggressive enemies in varying patterns at you.
>>735927001My meat
play gunbird 2
>>735927001Gradius 1 and 3 and Advance, Giga Wing, Thunder Force 3, a couple of R-Type games, Lords and Gates of Thunder. To be honest the best one was Lords of Thunder because of the OST.
>>735925268that sounds kino. wait actually that's just rainchaser, but that game is pure vapourware
>>735925268That's just Sigma Star Saga
>>735927340Those games are kinda buns my dude
Imagine a shmup with romantic visual novel sections but if you don't 1CC it you get NTR'd at the end
>>735927547Still more entertaining than any bullet hell I've ever played, which isn't saying much.
>>735927340Did you beat or did you credit feedand was it the real AC gradius or the shitty console versions for babies
>>735927575Nah lining up options and sitting around all day ain't fun gameplay
>>735927651I mean pretty obviously he didn't, there's no way he cleared a bunch of easy crap and then gradius 3
>>735927651I didn't have to continue on TF3 or Lords of Thunder when I beat them, I'm pretty sure.
What's a more modern game like Highway Hunter? I'll play that.
>>735927773>I didn't have to continue on [boring consoleslop where nothing happens for 30 hours] or [boring consoleslop where nothing happens for 50 hours]Makes sense
>>735928134Still more entertaining than any bullet hell I've ever played.
>>735928203What bullet hells HAVE you played?inb4 2hushit
>>735928304Battle Garegga, Suguri, Gundeadligne, Gundemonium, EoSD, PCB
>>735928410>not a bullet hell>random doujinslop>2hushitas expected.
OP is bait and switch with this post
>>735928517I'm not going to change my tune if I play a CAVE game. I don't like the fundamentals of the genre.
Acting like icycalm doesn't make you intelligent it makes you a massive faggot.
>>735928685>Im not going to change my tune if I play games that have fundamentally different design to the ones I played
>>735929510>No dude dodge the bullet pattern 2 is totally different from dodge the bullet pattern 1Dodging the bullet pattern is the unfun part.
>>735929991>dodging bullets in gradius good but dodging bullets in cave games bad because.... you STUPID fucking chud!!
>>735878890/v/rowns does not play games
>>735930156Gradius is less bad, not good.
>>735878890Is this a thinly veiled synthetic man reference
>>735929991>Doging the bullet pattern in the genre that specifically asks that you dodge bullet patterns isn't funYou may want to play other games
>>735931057No shit. I literally said I didn't like the genre.
>>735930992
>>735910840Thank you for taking time to explaining that answered my question
>>735928685https://streamable.com/r1u1kzIs this 2hu? Am I playing 2hu right now?
>>735931763Looks boring as absolute fuck.
>>735899220Killer Instinct isn't if you aren't shit.
>>735926186Premium bait
>>735931913Having turns in a fighting game is not a negative, are you retarded
>>735931906Look anon, more bullet hells that clearly play just like 2huhttps://youtu.be/c0dZCi2OZb0Why are there so many 2hu clones? It's crazy!
>>735932463Still looks boring. I don't know what point you think you're proving.
>>735932971>Still looks boringCompared to what
>>735933746Anything. Even doing nothing. Gradius at least has environments going on when you're not in a stage transition.
>>735933795Bullet hells have environments too xobeit...?
>>735878890Mogged
>>735934204The only game in there with actual gameplay is nuclear throne
>>735879562Someone shilled a Touhou clone of this game and it lives rent free in my mind that it doesn't work on any modern OS.
>>735934204all of these games are not "gameplay first". They are "synergyslop first"
>>735934402I don't think you've played all of those games.
>>735882191>le so hardcore culture around STGs is the worst thing I swear.Holy fucking shit someone finally said it.The tryhard faggots that orbit this genre are so damn insufferable, they have ten times the arrogance of soulsfags.
>>735878890"Gamers" now consists of 90% casual fags that would rather pay for microtransactions than play a game.
>>735934567You should at least be able to 1cc the cotton games bro
>>735935113Literally noone but you gives a fuck. Quit being a faggot.
>>735935201I give a fuck, the games are like 20 minutes long lmao
>>735882864lil bro tried to sneak virtua fighter in there
>>735934567>orbit this genreAnon, they're right in the middle of the genre playing it. If you're not even beating the games you're the orbiter.
Why are shmupfags suddenly being so loud and insufferable
>>735936548Push back from the utter lack of gameplay on /v/ most likely, it's one extreme hitting another. Can't have a video game subsist on rpgs and puzzle games, that's not realistic.
>>735936703>video game subsist*video game board
>>735923782I know what it's referring to which is how I know it's fucking retarded.
I like the expedition and progression feeling of shmups, but I also like the expedition and progression feeling of RPGs. Thankfully, there's a Japanese guy who did just that. Both the "shooting enemies" gameplay and the "gather and plan forward" gameplay are done well so far, I'm pleasantly surprised.
>>735937268I'm not so sure this is what I'd consider very exciting bullet patterns design. This is like a parody of what normalfags think shmups are. I hope this game isn't yours.
>>735937337> I'm not so sure this is what I'd consider very exciting bullet patterns design. Good think I didn't ask ya.
>>735937268Looks pretty cool but no one bought it because normalfags are fucking liars
>>735937995POOT DISPENSER HERE.
>>735937683Well you should have. I am quite clearly the greatest poster on nu-/v/, this thread being but one example of that. If you'd just listen to me, play the games I tell you to play, and stop flooding the catalogue with slop, you'll see how right and smart I am. But alas, this board has too many casuals for my words to mean anything.
>>735938847>I am quite clearly the greatest poster on nu-/v/That's me, actually.
>>735938847>>735939056Stream TSS match to decide who best.
>>735939169both of them are the same guy xobeithttps://arch.b4k.dev/v/thread/732246368/#732254160
>>735939217/v/ has hit the /vg/ meta of being dead and sustained by a handful of shitposters pretending to be more interesting people.
>>735939217Wtf?
>>735939275True. I find it disturbing how many people use my images and talking points pretending to be me. Talk the talk all you want. Until you post good games, you'll always be a boring normalfag casual
>>735897903In my mind gameplay is split between input and strategy.Rhythm games are king when it comes to input, but have virtually no strategy. Some games try to add some strategy like the star power gauge in GH and stuff. But there is so much mental power needed for inputs that putting much towards strategy is asking too much.
>>735939361Did you know /fgg/ has people pretending to be people who haven't posted there in like 10 years, I think this is the ultimate destination for 4chan as a whole. It's just people pretending to be posters who actually did stuff having pretend arguments with each other.
>>735939217Haha just so we're clear this is NOT true.
>>735926580I play almost nothing but puzzle games, drone racing sims, and online go nowadays.
>>735939451>Rhythm games are king when it comes to inputBy what metric? There's more to execution than hitting strict timings, and there's more to making them fun than just making the execution high. Most rhythms games aren't mechanically interesting, like there's a reason it feels more fun to do some combos than others in fighting games, or do a really whacky dodge in a shmup, or even a setpiece in a platformer. Rhythm games feel like something that REALLY needs to be in an arcade on a giant specialized arcade machine with very specialized inputs, every rhythm game where you just press buttons or play on a tablet is absolute dogshit.
i started playing the hardest game and am now 40,000 yen in debt to a shady corporationzawa zawa
>>735939518Yeah, I'm aware. It's sad, but really, you can only do so much to save a space like 4chan. When the sea of shit starts rising, all you can do swim up before you get submerged. I hope you at least play good games, Anon. You seem marginally more well-informed than the retards in this thread.
>>735939786>RNG>Gameplay
>>735878890/v/ posts about games it hates.no-one hates those games, so theres no need to post themthis isn't a gotcha, its further proof that shmups are already perfect.
>>735878890>"gameplay-first">*look inside*>it's 90% of the game is an autoscrollerLMAO
>>735939824Mahjong is moreso about scamming old people to pad out your shogi career.
>>735939693I disagree. Also most of those other games you mentioned are only better to you because of the strategy aspects combined with input.
>>735939865>autoscrollers are le bad... because the millennial nintendo youtubers said soYou're a gradius futafag.
>>735940070I'm not talking about strategy, I'm talking about inputs. Like it's fun to do combos in old fighting games that have whacky delays, because you do a little beat in your head, which is mechanically different from like delays in an anime fighter, like you literally do a little song beat in your head, or at least thats how i learned them, and its how i memorize extremely strict sequences in other genres too. Like there are several infinites in marvel that literally make a hip hop beat when you sound them out in your head.https://youtu.be/Fx55YfmPejYCombined with unique inputs to that character it feels really satisfying, like when you really get the hang of it controlling that character feels like an extension of yourself, so it's fun to play these crazy characters with crazy controls.
