>Bethesda Fallout 3 dev "initially felt a little touchy" about New Vegas' success because they "put in all this effort" for its foundation>"We made 90% of the art, we built the engine"does todd hate new vegas?
>>735910830The TV show seems like it went out of its way to shit on all the non Bethesda lore
>>735910830The art and the engine are worst parts lol
>>735911038>engine badwhy is no one else making games like this? feels like if it was that easy to repeat with any random engine then others would do it.
>>735910830Their names are in the credits, what else do they want?Do they want Fallout NV to start up with "Fallout NV but don't forget the Fallout 3 devs" or do they want any topic talking about Fallout NV to say "I like the X story but let's not forget it was Fallout 3 devs who made this broken car model".>world artist>character artistNevermind lol.Can we stop referring to artfags as devs?
>>735910961TV show is the only entertaining thing about the franchise.
>>735910830THETODDALWAYSWINS
>>735911179What looter shooters with RPG mechanics? They do make those. New Vegas isn't even the most recent one made by Obsidian.
>>735910830>some literal who random>dur Todd Howard???!!!kill yourself
>>735911469I can't understand what gets people to play 4. Its mediocre in every way. Is it the mods?
>>735911465Secondary retard spotted
>>735911682settlement autism (somewhat enhanced by mods) and gun autism (exceptionally enhanced by mods)
Are Toyota engineers supposed to get credited when the Lexus team makes something that far surpasses the schlub makes and models?
>>735910961You would say that no matter what.
>>735911682Shooting things feels better in it.
>>735911682It is the mods, yes, and the fact that shooting feels better than in Gamebryo era Bethesda jank.
>>735910961bethesda lore is as flat and empty as pancake
>>735911179The scope is hugely inefficient both in terms of development and real-time performance, and consumers have shown they'll appreciate something significantly easier to make just as much. So when someone sets out to make "the next Skyrim", they do feasibility assessment and then instead make- as an example where developers have confirmed that's what happened- Breath of the Wild.
>>735910830I mean it's kinda understandable? You make this big giant, mega succesfull game, and then someone else takes the building blocks you made, and makes something that absolutely mogs yours? That can sting a little.
>>735911474Having to deal with people like that guy you responded to is so tiring. How can you have an intelligent conversation with someone who's proudly ignorant and you have to establish baseline understanding such as "there are other games like fallout new vegas" things he could have easily checked with a google search.. just keeps you running around in circles for hours. Fuck that.
>>735911910What a childish thing to say.
>>735911038>the art>badEvery Bethesda game up until Skyrim has god-tier art direction thanks to Adam Adamcowiz.
>new vegas' successNew Vegas sold worse than Fallout 3.
>>735912415"Art direction" doesn't matter much when the texturework is universally a mess of jagged green-brown pixel artifacts on literally every surface in the game.
>>735912273Fallout 3 was initially a lot more successful than NV. In fact, NV’s initial reception was quite lukewarm and it was only years later that it became more popular than 3.
people really want to forget that New Vegas was barely functional on release
>>735912565on console its still barely functional. on pc its still barely functional without unofficial patches
>>735910830it has bethesdas logo on the front cover
>>735912565game had less than a year of development its all bethesda's fault with their shitty engine too
>UMM ACKSHUALLY WE DID 90% OF THE WORKThen take pride in what you contributed you retarded faggot. If you made the assets and the engine, you provided something that was essential in helping bring this game to life.
>>735912663it was 18 months, which is still low but not less than one year
>>735912565This. It was less stable than 3. In fact, I distinctly remember on release some people shitting on the game based on performance alone. 3 has a lot of bugs and glitches, but it actually FUNCTIONS when you boot it up, which was something the early patches of NV struggled with.
>>735912531I mean Fallout 4 is still more successful than both of them
How come all the songs in Fallout 4 are like novelty songs about atomic bombs and radiation?Why would those holotapes of all holotapes not only survive the war but then go on to be wanted on the radio by people trying NOT to think about the literal wasteland they subsist in?
>>735912663>its all bethesda's fault with their shitty engine tooThe shitty engine that Josh Sawyer, the big guy behind New Vegas, consistently praises?
>>735912849Anon those are real songs written at a time where people actually worried about nuclear war
>>735912663nigger, ever single obisidan/troika game was a total technical mess.
>>735912916Wow, you mean Bethesda didn't record these songs and release them back in the 50s/60s? Fooled me.
>>735912849One of the top streamed songs of 2025 was about a real guy who got assassinated.
>>735912960Well your question is stupid because people in real life were writing those songs at a time they would be worried about it and you wonder why people in the wasteland with nothing would take enjoyment in listening to music at all
>>735912875Gamebryo is actually a good engine and it’s the only engine that can make the kind of games Bethesda makes, but the problem is that the games they make have such a huge scope and ambition that the engine is brought to its knees by it, which leads to a lot of compromises and jank.I’m pretty sure it’s quite literally impossible to make a Bethesda style open world game without some jank being present.
>>735912942I’ve said this before, but Obsidian is like what would happen if you staffed an entire studio with “ideas guys”: insanely impressive levels of ambition, but that ambition being kneecapped due to technical incompetence and then not realising they’ve bit off more than they can chew until halfway through development.Most fans of Obsidian games in general are in love with the game it COULD have been rather than the game in its actual state.
But the engine is just the basis. The guy who makes the paint doesn't get upset when an artist creates a masterpiece.
>>735912415Oblivion looks like shit bro
>>735913057And, of course, THOSE holotapes survived the nuclear holocaust because it's funny and ironic.
>>735911682Porn mods.
>>735911682its a better RPG than skyrim, yet it pisses off skyrim fans. really interesting when you think about it.
>>735910961>The TV show seems like it went out of its way to shit on all the non Bethesda loreI don't see that at all and I love NV.
>>735912531I know FNV didn't click for me at first. Mostly because at the time, I wasn't much into westerns. So you wake up in this cowboy town, with that western music on the radio? Meh, I didn't dig it. I liked 3's aesthetic, I liked the upbeat poppy retro music. But over the years I've grown up a bit, I started to be a bit more receptive to westerns, care a bit more about the stories and quests, and realized that actually, FNV is far superior to F3. You see this all the time with reviewers, too. Them shitting on a thing way back, and then realizing "Actually, I was wrong, this is the tits" I believe Yahtzee once did a video like "games I was wrong about". Sometimes it takes a while to appreciate quality.
>>735912849I just listen to the classical music station or the environmental soundtrack.
>>735913332The irony is very obviously the point. It’s a black comedy franchise afterall.Even then though, Fallout 3 and NV both have plenty of songs that aren’t about nukes. In fact, the choice of music in both of those games is a mix of melancholic songs and funny novelty songs.
>>735911682It's the Farmville shitEveryone I know that plays it does it solely to build shitty looking dollhousesThen they moved to Fallout 76 to do the same
>>735910830 New Vegas devs created the lore and universe in the first place Bethesda for you to do that. You are welcome
Of course they hate it. The fact that there are still new shit being discover after all these years says a lot about the game.>>735912084Don't insult pancakes like that. Pancakes are edible and tasty.
>>735911576This anon gets it. You guys are stupid to think Todd would care this much about things like why you haven't bought a copy of the new rerelease of Skyrim. Or Fallout 4.
I don't think Carmack is jealous of what Infinity Ward did with CoD using his engine
>>735913089>the engine is brought to its knees by itNo, the engine is brought to it's knees by consoles. Imagine telling someone to make a game like Oblivion, Fallout 3/NV and Skyrim with only 256mb of RAM today. They'd say it's possible and be on their way.
>>735912235Cope you faggot
>>735913332yes from a meta stand point, that's the joke, but you are talking about this from a realism perspective and the answer is that it's retarded for songs from the 1950s and 1960s to be the only music to survive and be the only ones available in 2070 in the first place. But be it as it may people in the apocalypse have jack shit for entertainment and a the basic song or comic book holds a lot of value
>>735913576>black comedy franchiseNormals get out.(get!) OUT!
>>735913682I'm waiting for Skyrim Silver Jubilee Edition that includes all of the Verified Creations.
>>735912415Oblivion looked like liquid shit
>>735913797>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hG3uBgQmTnk>haha, it's funny because the world actually got set on fire!
>>735913913Fallout 1 used "Maybe"Fallout 3 (the Bethesda slop) used "I don't want to set the world on fire"It's literally just Bethesda doing this shit...and you dont push against it so they don't stop.
>>735911825>settlement autismYes this pretty much is the hook
>>735910830Bullshit: New Vegas was shat upon everywhere on release for being a buggy mess
>>735913445I’m also warmer on NV than I used to be, but I think I still prefer 3 just because of 3’s vibes and also because I like the map design of 3 better.They’re both great games, but NV just doesn’t hit the same despite having vastly superior writing.>>735913681There are a lot of hidden secrets in FO3 as well. The nature of these massive open worlds lends themselves well to obscure secrets in general.One thing I loved about 3 that I feel was lost in NV is that 3 had a ton of unmarked locations with NPCs, items and unmarked quests you’d never find otherwise. But in NV, they made all these unmarked locations marked to inflate the location count.
>>735913980I could never get into the settlement crap so I never finished much of 4. Its a little too clunky and tedious.
>>735913973Even putting aside the fact that Fallout 3 also has Maybe (as an obvious nod to the first game), I Don’t Want To Set The World on Fire and Civilization are the only songs in the game that are even vaguely linked to the apocalypse.
>>735913973>Fallout 1 used "Maybe">Fallout 3 (the Bethesda slop) used "I don't want to set the world on fire"Didn't know, all negro music sounds the same.
>>735914259its old based negro music https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eVrglm3Npec
>>735914259Not even a joke, but all the Ink Spots songs deliberately sound almost exactly the same. If you read up on their history, the band members were constantly feuding with each other because their leader refused to change their style at all because it worked and it sold. It's actually somewhat similar to what happened with the Beach Boys, with Mike Love forcing them to focus on simple songs about girls and the beach because "that's where the money is."
>>735910961Betheslop is pathetic
>>735911179Because the approach to Bethesda games is very inefficient. People like it, but it's inefficient. It's bloated with a ton of shit that doesn't matter, but people like that shit. These are sim games first, and rpgs/whatever second. >>735911682Eh.Fallout 4's modding scene isn't really that good. The game is much more unstable than Skyrim at a baseline level, and everyone doing wild shit is already invested in doing it in Skyrim, not Fallout 4. It's mostly the combination of an extremely shallow, hard to fuck up "get shit to take back and make shit to have better shit to go out and get more and better shit" loop. It's not too deep, so it doesn't scare off people with the attention span of a bowl of grapes who refuse to read a manual on getting The Machine to work, and doesn't really have a minimum level of skill to participate. I can think of a half dozen core mod families that do this like ten times better in Minecraft, but Minecraft has dogshit basic combat, and requires the aforementioned reading the manual to build and operate The Machine, and modding it is a bit of a learning curve compared to Vortex. Minecraft you have to figure out which of these 300 mods are essential, which are nice but too taxing, and which are "make a copy of your world and then add these when you're ready", unlike Fallout 4 which disintegrates under 60ish mods anyways, and unless you are putting in stupid shit probably can't find that many you actually want to do anyways.
>>735913273>>735913864Souless zoomcucks
>>735914375This. Every Ink Spots song even begins with the same few notes.>>735914367Genuinely one of the best songs in 3 right here, along with Civilisation and Way Back Home.
>>735910961It did, and they've been trying to backtrack and claim that ACKSHUALLY they are honoring NV by doing retarded shit like Kevin as Caesar.
>>735914637Get good noob
>>735914764I played Oblivion on release day you literal faggot. It looked like shit then it looks like shit now.
>>735914890It’s graphically shit, but the aesthetic and cozy vibes carry it. Beth games are aesthetically carried by vibes, designs and art direction.
>>735914890Soulless zoomcuck
The art and the engine are by far the worst part of NV.As much as everyone likes that game, it's visually ugly, and was even at the time.
>>735910830>does todd hate new vegas?No asshole. No matter how hard you trannies wish he did. He helped Obsidian make the damn thing and he gets credit for it whether you like it or not. Todd has no reason to ever hate it.
>>735915079They broke some of the stuff that worked in oblivion like hdr and self shadows so it looked even older
>>735915079The orange filter/ high exposure lighting makes NV look worse. FO3 was smart enough to go for a dirtier and more washed out colour palette to help mask the ugliness of the models. FO4 meanwhile, when for a brighter aesthetic and looked hideous as a result.
>>735910830What success?
>>735915227self shadows in Oblivion always looked ugly, literally always turn that shit off immediately
>>735911179I mean, if you want an open world video game, Rockstar and Kojima's efforts are a lot more polished.What bethesda brings to the table is all the little gimmicks, like being able to loot every piece of clutter from a house, which honestly isn't really that fun.If someone just rented out Kojima's Death Stranding engine, and used that to make a Fallout game, would that be so bad?
>>735912849because fallout 4 is an apocalypse themed park attraction and not a coherent world
>>735915429Why is that a bad thing?
>>735915378Those little gimmicks are integral to the experience and other engines don’t provide that.The design philosophy behind Bethesda games is that they’re immersive sims with CRPG elements. They’re comparable to games like Deus Ex and Dishonored, but on an open world scale with more RPG elements.
>>735915515Because when a faction tries to explain what their plans are, they have to say "you wouldn't understand" rather than even attempt to make their actions make any sense in this land of nonsensical bullshit
>>735915571> immersive simMoron detected.
>>735915672A lot of Bethesda’s staff who made their games from Morrowind to Skyrim were ex-Looking Glass employees (including Emil), and Todd’s favourite game is Ultima IV, so the immersive sim DNA was there.
>>735915625Did you ever consider you may not be able to understand?
>>735915571to what degree would we really miss out, if you couldn't loot all of the spoons in Fallout?Plus, couldn't you just make another engine do that? The Source engine could do stuff like that, surely. You can already pick up clutter and move it around. Probably not a huge leap to add an inventory system, and let you stash away items.
>>735915571When's the last time that someone pointed out some sort of hidden interaction if you do things in a weird or not-so-obvious way for a Bethesda game?Literal careers are still ongoing talking about all the interactions and special flags in games like New Vegas or Deus Ex that allow for people who played even a dozen times to discover something brand new.Bethesda only does this with locations.
>>735915378i like those gimmicks
>>735915876> Immersive simMoron detected
>>735914873I think I'm good enough. I'm playing a 550 mod minecraft pack that is feathering the edge of crashing my girlfriend's laptop every time she joins. She really likes The Machine, which really frees me up to make very nice bases, and use magic & doors to breach and clear fucked up dungeons. It's really funny how readily we organized ourselves into labor & gathering, and processing & technology, completely on our own....I do really like making a farm & garden multiplex though, that's my guilty pleasure. I added like 200 crops, most of which are useless, just because I like the look of a varied, colorful field, and have employed a few hanging vine crops to replace proper staircases and elevators 'cuz I like the vibes.
>>735915924> Youtubers are making bank with their sub 2K " Most players don't know these 25 tricks in NV"Wow just wow.
>>735916068Cuck cope
>>735915893>to what degree would we really miss out, if you couldn't loot all of the spoons in Fallout?Considering a lot of people in Skyrim like to do things like create mountains of cheese wheels or arrange the bookshelves in their houses, quite alot. These features satisfy people’s autism.
>>735915893> Do players really need agency?Yes.
>>735916119As someone who runs a nearly 0 effort slop channel, who whores for whatever sponsor available, with an audience of around two thousand, that I'm convinced has maybe 2 real humans in it.200 bucks a month for a distraction while I'm taking a shit, and maybe two hours of actual work every couple weeks, is a pretty cushy bit of wasting money to have.
>>735911682The majority of people who play games are casuals and there was a massive influx around and after Fallout 4 came out. Games with little depth and better accessibility exist specifically to cater to those people, games that are more like theme park rides.
>>735914367God I grew to hate this song. There's not even really anything wrong with it, it's just on the radio every fucking time I tune in. It's like 3's version of Johnny Guitar for me I guess but I actually like Johnny Guitar.
>>735911682it's the same people making 76 and that godawful show profitablemostly spics
>>735916180That's a niche of a niche. The mountains are mostly made for internet clout and memes.
>>735911682I really fucking hate this game but I keep playing it because there’s nothing else like it.
>>735916354Living in your parents basement must help.
>>735916373I like both Butcher Pete and Johnny Guitar. I don’t even get the hate for Johnny Guitar. It’s genuinely a really good song. I’m convinced some people are just biased against country music.
>>735916373When i was a kid and played fallout 3 I thought this song was about a serial killer so everytime i played id take out a butcher knife and chop raiders up but with context the song is even better because it's about some dude named pete nonstop fucking every single women in a 30 mile radius
>>735916342there's valid player expression, and then there's just pissing around. What I want are novel options for completing my objectives, and a storyline that forks in interesting ways to fit my chosen character.Collecting every piece of cheese in the game is just kind of a gimmick. It doesn't do a lot for me. I'd rather have well written dialogue, and smooth feeling combat. I'd rather have realistic liquid and rope physics.
>>735916786It's not even just the women. >found him choppin on his cell mate Pete just can't stop no matter what. I think he needs some help desu.
>>735916373I bet you hate Big Iron. Fun fact, the radio was bugged to play Big Iron most of the time.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-NuX79Ud8zI
>>735910830The problem is that bethesda made bad art and a decent engine and most importantly a meh story at best for 3, 4 and 76 where as FO1 has a goated story. FO2 has unique world design/building/atmosphere and NV has the best world/story and imo the best setting in the series. When I look at FO3 and 4 I see during that time frame, something akin to Marvel films. Good effects and presentation but a story that sucks. Where as I look at FO classics and NV as games that are technologically limited but in writing, a masterpiece like a black and white film.
>>735916959https://youtu.be/oGCtnOFOCXo?si=6PHf51SFSltUCMGw&t=143
>>735916787> People must enjoy themselves how I want them to.No they don't. I would bet my lunch money you hate Crimson Desert. No narrative to drag you around by the nose and just left to your own devices must be hell for you.I hope you find a game that scratches your itch though.
>>735916786>>735916959A lot of songs from the 30s-50s had innuendos like this. The Hayes code really forced writers to get creative.
>>735916515NahIf I didn't I could probably start an onlyfans, larp that I'm transitioning, and make a few grand a month off of feet and bulge pics, and could probably quit my real job. Also it's not a basement, this is a single story house, it's the same room I've always been in.
>>735917067Honestly, no Fallout game has a good story. They’re all just excuses to justify you going out to explore the wasteland. It’s why they all have the same structure of “find the maguffin, then stop the bad guy”. They’re serviceable plots, but they’re not the main draw of the games.
>>735911682Literally just settlements. It's the only reason I have a few hundred hours in the game because it really has no other redeeming qualities. RPG elements are non-existent, combat is bland and exploration is unrewarding (largely because of the legendary system). Whoever thought putting borderlands guns in Fallout was a good idea should be shot. Uniques and 3 and NV (and every TES game) were so much better in every conceivable way.
>>735917282You are a NV fan. It isn't a larp bro.
>>735914764You are a genuine fucking retard if you think Oblivion looks better than Skyrim. Take off the nostalgia goggles, Oblivion is the worst looking Bethesda game and it's not even close.
>>735917376Don't know fallout had some memorable characters like the master and the overseer, the plots were probably not very complicated but it's engaging and interesting. Fallout 4 also has some interesting characters like nick valentine, imo fallout 4 was way better than fallout 3 in terms of the main plot
>>735917392They should follow the Crimson Desert model and announce they are not making an RPG.Cut the " It's not an RPG nerds" off at the knees.I still don't know why they think it matters.
it's ok todd FO3 is the better more memorable game anyways and it's fanbase isn't infested with ugly trannies
>>735913980i didn't care about that at all, i only liked the gun autism
>>735917569Personally, I think Fallout 3’s plot had a cool idea going for it with its Biblical allegory and symbolism and it had some great individual setpieces, like the Vault escape/exit, Tranquility Lane and Liberty Prime helping you take back the Purifier. The biggest problem with the story is that they just fumbled the execution in the second half. I actually remember really enjoying 3’s story when the game first came out, and it wasn’t until I was older that I noticed some of the issues the plot had when others pointed them out.
>>735917153>Moral codes says we can't sing about fucking, so instead we'll disguise the fucking by singing about a cannibal serial killer instead
>>735917801The minecraft/settlement bullshit was the begininng of the end. Go back to having your team build the game not the fans.Waste of time
>>735911682More or less the same reason F76 is still played by thousands, the core gameplay is great and with mods it gets even better.76 is just 4 but better in almost every way, minus any relevant mods.You can still mod 76, just not to great lengths like 4.
>>735917923Americans are Puritans and prudes. In other news, grass is green.
>>735913418>everyones a retard>girl boss mc>all factions are 3 people in size>all settlements are 5ft in sizr and last 20 seconds of screentime>penis in vagina?>no monsters or ferals or cool weapons
>>735910830>license the IP>NOOOOOO WHY IS YOURS SO SUCCESSFUL lmao clown company
>>735912415This is true. The other replies clearly can't differentiate between art direction and visual fidelity. Crazy how many retards are on /v/ these days.
>>735918476What success exactly.I know NV is popular with hipsters and the trans crowd but there is no evidence it was a commercial success and the only modern Fallout game that did worse with critics than NV was 76.As bad as 76 was it was a bigger commercial success than NV.
>>735912415This. I appreciate the grit of Fallout 3's art design, and that's really it. I like how it parallels to the "brighter" west coast where development is moving quicker, becoming more political, and thus less post-apocalyptic.
>>735918526Some can't even tell the difference between subjective and objective.
>>735917997Nah it's cool and makes the4 game highly replayable you just hate fun
>>735918768The East coast has restarted heavy industry in the Pitt and has flying aircraft carriers vs a modern military force being fought to a standstill by cosplayers wielding spears because they have a wooden fort.Tell me again about the west coast.
>>735918880Your taste is subjective and you might not prefer Adam Adamcowiz's art. The quality is not, and it's apparent that he was talented.You're not as intelligent as you think you. are.
>>735918889> Your tastes are different from mine.Yes.
>>735910830Damn bro, if the games are 90% the same and yet people widely prefer one over the other... you stopped to think maybe that 10% matters? You told Emil that?
>>735919124> The quality is not.Is that subjective or objective?If objective show your math.Every accusation is an admission with you.
>>735910830Bethesda has go return to making good single player games. More fun RPGs. Statfield sucks and I'm not playing an MMO.
>>735915571They hated him because he told them the truth.
>>735910961>Gave the Kings a weird nightmare bad end when the rest of Freeside is fine somehow.
>>735919348Fallout 3 had more critical and commercial success. Obvious better game is better.
>>735912235This is it. The concept is too big for most indies, and too wasteful for soulless corpos. Bethesda themselves wouldn't make a Bethesda game if they started from a blank slate in the present day.
>>735913864jej
>>735913057You're stupid.
>>735919640I think it might be possible if you straight up stole Bethesda’s code and reverse engineered one of the games to be a different game entirely. I know there are fanmade Fallout games like Fallout The Frontier and Fallout London. In theory, some autist could do something similar but make a brand new IP from it.
>>735910830But many of New Vegas's devs worked for Interplay and the original Fallout games which built the foundations for the series as a whole so it's fair
>>735919902The foundations that led to Bethesda buying the IP from the bargain basement bin?Those foundations?
>>735920154No since that was due to mismanagement from the higher ups at Interplay, I'm talking about the actual developers of the games that built the lore, artstyle, aesthetic, etc of the series.
>>735920390The games that failed?> Ackshually they were big hits.Revisionist history is not a viable argument.They were eventually profitable but no where near successful. It is true the business end were morons but you can't make chicken salad out of chicken shit.
>>735920692How is this relevant to what I said? Yes, Bethesda made the series more mainstream but many of New Vegas's devs were the ones that created the original Fallout games, without which Fallout wouldn't even exist in the first place. They both contributed to what Fallout is today, so it's fair.
>>735917038I seem to recall Johnny Guitar being played way more than any other song, to the point where the unofficial patches all fix it being more common than any other song.Apparently they wanted to get an Elvis song or two for the Kings but couldn't afford it so they just slotted Johnny Guitar into the spots those songs would be.
>>735919375>Give me a detailed post relating his art to perspective, scene composition, style, cohesion, use of space, use of color, shape, form, etc>Heh gotcha!No I'm not going to teach art to a retard.
>>735910830They really starting to admit to things First they admit they only respected originals when working on Fallout 3 and stopped when they started doing Fallout 4 and now this
>>735911469Oops
>>735921147Ouch
>>735921147Uhhhhhh they are playing Fallout 3 via New Vegas using the TTW mod.I am not coping. You are coping.
>>735911179lmao hi Todd
>>735921059So your opinion is subjective.Glad you are big enough to admit it.
>>735920914I never said they did not create the IP.I said they were bad at making video games.If they had an ounce of talent they were sitting on a billion dollar IP.
>>735921371>I refuse to educate myself on a topic I know nothing about >This means I am correct.Third worlder, narcissist, or nigger?
>>735912415i honestly see very little of adam’s concept art in fallout 3. enclave power armor at most. everything else just looks like fallout 1 and 2 with slightly different details and more grittiness.maybe he directed it to look like that though.
>>735921598>I said they were bad at making video games.Fallout 1/2, Planescape: Torment, and Icewind Dale are good RPGs at the minimum. >I never said they did not create the IP.Then your point is irrelevant to what I said
>>735910830I think it's a fair thing to say, they basically made 90% of New Vegas in a way and people act like Obsidian just pieced the game together in one month all by themselves when they has the entirety of the assets from 3 and the engine at their fingertips.
>>735921851There’s also a lot of brutalist architecture in 3. You can see it most prominently in the DC area.
>>735910830>>"We made 90% of the art, we built the engine"Wow you made the worst parts of the game congrats
>>735921746By your constant stream of tears I take it you are upset you can't provide objective proof.There there.
>>735922110They also made the mechanics, the levelling system, and basically everything else. All Obsidian basically did was the writing plus a few new weapons and armour pieces that weren’t originally there.
>>735921852Then why do you keep responding?
>>735922110This. The things about New Vegas that are praised the most are the writing and deeper roleplaying. So Obsidian still deserves a lot of the credit.
>>735922297To clarify
>>735922237Fallout 3 and NV essentially have different mechanics and levelling systems.
>>735922371> I have to let you know I don't care.You are silly.
>>735922197>I know nothing about art but I'm too conceited to admit that I'm wrong. >You're mad!Great post, keep going.
>>735922602It's not that I don't care, it's to clarify what my point was and why what you said wasn't really relevant to it.
>>735922450Not really. The core loop of getting exp through various means and then assigning perks and skill points is the same. The only difference is one has level scaling and one doesn’t, and that in NV you get a perk once every 3 levels rather than every level.
>>735911474>looter shooters with RPG mechanics?Only Bethesda makes persistent worlds where you can drop and interreact with every single object in the room. Its the year 2026 and there are still games where dead bodies and objects on the ground fade away like its fuckin super mario.
>>735922736Need a tissue?There is no shame in being unable to prove you are correct. Mostly caused by your poor understanding of the words subjective and objective.You will get better though.
>>735922738Thanks for the blog post expanding on how little you care.Really drives the point home.
>>735923008> It's subjective because I said so!>You're mad!You've already posted that. Come up with a new strawman.
>>735923315Using words correctly is now a strawman.Sad.
>>735923087I simply pointed out that your argument was irrelevant to what I said and tried to clarify what my point was. I'm sorry if you feel there was any ill will, I did not mean it.
>>735910830>initially felt a little touchyUnderstatement of the year. New Vegas still lives rent free in Todd's head to this day and made him dedicate an entire season of a TV series to tearing it down as much as possible.
>>735923621I honestly almost feel bad for them
>>735923492We get it. You have spent the last half hour telling us how little you care.We believe you. You don't need to tell us again how little you care.
>>735922949That pretty much sums up about half of all existing RPGs.What I mean is that Obsidian has practically completely rewritten the mechanics and calculations for NV. Everything from how damage is calculated to accuracy, and how perks and skills work is completely different.
>>735923713Right
>>735910830There is no blow to the ego that can't be assuaged with huge piles of cash.
>>735910830I will forgive Bethesda when they actually make a good RPG again
>>735923621Not like it matters. Everyone is just considering the show non-canon and still speculating on New Vegas' actual endings and their possibilities... you know, instead of just pretending nothing happened but the most uninteresting shit.
>>735923860Whats the last good rpg they made
>>735923936Morrowind
>>735923475The strawman being "you're mad" and "haha you don't know what subjective means!"The actual argument of the OP being "art as a technique can be measured by the quality of performing said technique." Your subjective liking of an art style was already acknowledged in the first post, but you're still hung up on it.But please, continue with your strawman.
>>735923959It's alright
>>735923936Trick question. There is no such thing as a good RPG.
>>735910830Okay so they built an engine. Then someone else came along and made an actual fucking game, why are they seething? Isn't that the point of making an engine in the first place?
>>735910961>RPG supplement advertisements for the regions the Fallout Show took place in don't bother to mention anything related to the showFallout's in a Star Wars Sequel situation without even having an extended universe to replace it with, fans are just going to have to ignore everything that happened after New Vegas
>There was a great war. Long before we were born. Our gallant soldiers fought from the Yukon to the Yangtze.>We were winning too. But then those damn Reds launched everything they had. We barely got our birds up.so was he just lying for no reason?
>>735914839That’s just them lying to the consumers who will repeat it online despite not having played NV or any of the other West Coast games.
>>735924001I ask again to show the objective proof of said quality.Since you can only offer subjective proof your options are to acknowledge objective reality or start another rage spiral.I am guessing you will go with the rage spiral.
>>735910830I don't know if they hate New Vegas but it definitely is understandable to feel at least a little jealous and hurt by it's praise by fans overshadowing Bethesda's Fallout
>>735924183It’s not lying jusy cause some retard in kikewood decides to change something and the retards who own the IP go along with it.
>>735924172Or just ignore everything Fallout that Bethesda has made
>>735910830it's ironic Bethesda would be upset about another dev team making their base game better when they've relied on unpaid modders to do the same thing for every game they've released.
>>735924172>new vegas setting>new california settingThey know it’s the same, they’re trying to narratively balkanize the west coast aren’t they?
>>735924183It literally doesn't matter. Everything that happened before the war stayed there. This is the one thing Bethesda refuses to accept. Fallout was never about pre-war. This is a narrative that runs through all three main games in the series (1, 2 and NV)
>>735924207I do believe the only rage spiral was your adolescent "You mad?!" posting. And once again, I am not going to teach art to an imbecile. If you actually care about the subject you can go to youtube or school to learn. Although it's clear the only thing you care about is feeble attempts at rage baiting.
>>735924172Fallout 5 will make the show canon lil bro, Lucy will be a companion and The Ghoul a quest giver
>>735924579They’ve already did it in Fallout 76
>>735924462> As I have no objective proof to support my argument I shan't be providing any.We were aware.
Shame about modern state of Obsidian desu
>>735924703It had a decent run
>>735916549I don't like Johnny Guitar because it's slow, and somber.I don't want to hear it in a firefight, and I want something upbeat while exploring.
>>735924674There's the strawman!Also "we"? You might actually need some help. This point isn't me trying to be rude.
I remember way more attention and critical acclaim for Fallout 3 when it first came out, compared for the lukewarm reaction New Vegas got at launch because it was just "more of the same" with lots of bugs.
>>735924770It depends for me, I'm not always in a firefight and sometimes a somber song like that is good for more quite moments of gameplay. The sad mood of the song also fits the Fallout world and the many tragic stories in it quite well.
>>735924703They have two teams, and at least one of them is still making good games. Pentiment was good, as was Grounded (for what it is). Even Avowed and Outer Worlds aren’t THAT bad (compared to something like Starfield or other AAA games that don’t work at all), if only they’d stop with this "diversity" nonsense and get their act together. I think we’ll still get something good from them, at least I hope so
>>735924934Yeah, opinions have definitely changed since then
>>735917118I think RPGs are mostly about story, yes.
>>735924981They have Gonzales, Cain, Sawyer and a few others now.I'd be really surprised if Sawyer's next game is bad, he's only really worked on Pentiment lately and even that was a little bit ago, I'd like to think Gonzales came back and Cain went full time for Sawyer's next project.
>>735924909You know we aren't alone here, correct? This is a public forum.Everyone can see your frustration at being unable to provide objective proof.It is always good to know what words mean before you try to use them.The next conversation will go much smoother now. Glad to help.
>INITIALLY felt a little touchy about NV's success>a game that took years to really gain a reputationso how do they feel now?
>>735924934You weren’t here back then. Fallout 3 was ridiculed from the moment it was announced, and NV was seen as the salvation from all that. Broad public opinion has certainly shifted, but for Fallout fans nothing has changed.That aside, reading old reviews of Fallout 3 and seeing how it’s praised for its great gameplay and writing is just surreal.
>>735925089So you think you speak on behalf of other posters on an anonymous message board? That's not why you posted referring to yourself as "we" anon. Seriously get some help.
>>735925191It's revisionism to say it took a few years to gain a reputation.
Does 3 have better dungeons, does New Vegas even have dungeons period
>>735911682>Its mediocre in every way. Is it the mods?basically every Bethesda game including NV, mediocre jank fest and modding it can't change that
>>735925038Some people do enjoy the devs giving them a structured, almost curated, experience.You will not go broke pandering to the lowest common denominator so you are lucky in that regard. They will always care about you.
>>735912916No you fucking retard alot of them like atom bomb baby was written in the 70s parodying the 50s. Goddamn you mother fuckers are retarded.
>>735925214Fallout 3 is still a console rpg and among them like what competition did they have besides Bioware?I'd be dickriding Fallout 3 too if the best wrpg comparison I could play was Jade Empire.
fallout 3 going from being celebrated as one of the best games the 360 era to now being the considered the worst mainline entry in the franchise by a mile is still funny
>>735925224Anyone observing the thread can see your frustration at being unable to provide objective proof.You aren't being subtle about it.I am not speaking for anyone. Just stating objective reality.
>>735925297All those vaults, caves and whatever. And to be honest, the NV ones are better; there are far less of them, but in terms of quality they’re just better than Fallout 3 ones. Fallout 3 has so many empty, boring dungeons that exist solely to drag out the gameplay, whereas in NV every dungeon has something interesting to offer and doesn’t drag on.
>>735925031It was mostly due to people making video essays shitting on 3 and sucking off NV that caused the mainstream to absorb that narrative over time. I think MrBTongue’s “The Shandification of Fallout” was the first major video essay in this genre, since it was where “what do they eat?” originated.I don’t think 3 is outright hated in the mainstream like it is on /v/, but its perception does seem to have shifted from being a 10/10 masterpiece to being a good game with some massive flaws. I’ve also noticed Skyrim is starting to be seen like that in the mainstream too (probably due to Bethesda tanking their reputation since Fallout 4).
>>735925485Fallout 76 exists though.
>>735925314I'm not saying it has to be overly curated. I just don't get that much joy out of stealing every spoon in the game. Like, it was vaguely amusing the first time, but now I'd rather have good writing, well structured game design, and polished presentation.I'd rather play Fallout in the Death Stranding engine than the Bethesda engine, is what I'm saying.
>>735911469Okay, but those new vegas stats are insane, right? The game barely even runs on modern systems, is ancient, and is sitll going toe to toe with the actively developed fallout 76. Normies who like the show probably can't even play new vegas.
The amount of absolute wrong shit being spread itt and the confidence of it is beyond parody. Did Fallout 4 and the show bring in this many fucking retards?
>>735925297Mojave has a few vaults, mostly forgettable. I know there was one with the plant dudes, but what I remember the best is that vault with awful encounter design. It's ghouls spawning right behind your back, you could pinpoint the spawn triggers with how obvious it was.
>>735925374I’ve got my issues with Mass Effect but it’s infinitely better than Fallout 3. But yeah, RPGs like that are a rarity even now, let alone back then.
>>735925525The biggest difference and probably why less exist in new vegas is because in new vegas they have a reason to exist, often unique loot and tell you a little about the region.I wish beth would do that more.
>>735925641The NV vaults are far better than the ones in 3.
>>735925528Indeed, but a lot of the praise for New Vegas's roleplaying and worldbuilding being deeper than Fallout 3 are legitimate points, and Bethesda's quality in these areas deteriorating even more in recent years probably makes people feel more vindicated in these criticisms.
>>735925593Yes, and I would say half of /v/ is under 20 years old and from the third world.
>>735925297>>735925525NV’s dungeons are pretty lame from an actual dungeon crawling perspective because they’re just like 3 rooms. Obsidian never had stellar dungeon design in any of their games (see the level design in Alpha Protocol and KOTOR 2 as examples of this).3 is better as a dungeon crawling game, since there are some really standout dungeons like the Dunwich Building and the Nuka-Cola Factory.>>735925485The general consensus is that either 4 or 76 is the worst mainline title. 3 often comes close behind NV in the eyes of most casual players nowadays.
>>735925492>I am not speaking for anyone.But you posted "we". So either you believe you are more than one person, or you speak on behalf of someone else. Which is it?
>>735925485>best games the 360 erait was always shat on by people that didn't start the series with the shitty console version of an already shit game
>>735925528The video essays in parts came out about a decade after the game, you'd be laughed off of /v/ for posting about fallout 3 before the weird shitposting started after the videos.
>>735925537The clutter serves to give the sense the player is moving through the world instead of the worldspace being a backdrop in a play.Setting off a fireball in a Bethesda game is very different from most games. In a Bethesda game everything but the furniture reacts. In most games nothing reacts.
>>735925840They’re literally the same dungeons, quite literally. NV is actually better because they’ve expanded the pool of preset rooms, added unique loot that you can find and added more depth and story to it all.
>>735925485I still don't get how it beat out L4D for the GOTY
>>735925282nah, it did. The overwhelming consensus at launch is that it was mediocre and didn't capture the 50's vibe of 3, which is fucking stupid, but that's what people were saying.
>>735925851I meant me and my boot that's about to kick you back to your third world shithole BITCH.
>>735925851I already explained this. > I dun unnerstandI know sweety, I know.
>>735925840>3 is better as a dungeon crawling game, since there are some really standout dungeons like the Dunwich Building and the Nuka-Cola Factory.don't forget the metro tunnels
bethesda didn't even come up with falloutshut the fuck up and sit down retard dev
>>735925948L4D didn't come out on console until later and even then it was only on xbox I think.GOTY is for casuals and those people didn't exist during the dark ages for pc gamers.
>>735911465I desire a nuclear holocaust as long as it gets every scumfuck like you
>>735925961Anon, that view was held only by people who had never played any Fallout game other than 3. NV was a favourite among Fallout fans and RPG fans in general right from the moment it was announced.
>>735925982No need to be rude.He is already feeling bad enough.
>>735926018The metro tunnels were executed like absolute shit but I wish they didn't drop that as an idea, the idea of dungeons that can lead to new areas is a cool idea.It just about still exists by skyrim but after that they just threw it away like beth always do with their ideas.
>>735926035Half-Life 2 was causal as fuck not to mention portal. What the fuck are you talking about?
>>735925676A lot of the 3 dungeons have lore tied to them through terminal entries and holotapes. In fact, even 4 and 76 do this too.>>735925794I do question why Bethesda keeps dumbing down their RPG elements. IMO, FO3 was the sweet spot between being streamlined and having depth. It seemed like every game Fallout 3 was them testing themselves to see how much they could dumb down the RPG elements and get away with it. I don’t see why this was necessary since normies had absolutely no trouble understanding FO3’s systems and 3’s systems were also good enough for NV to just copy-paste wholesale with barely any changes.
>>735926067> Hipsters knew they were going to pretend to like NV before it came out.Makes sense.
>>735926018The worst part of Fallout 3. You could line up every single underground tunnel next to each other and there’d be no difference between them. Some of them are literally identical cells with the same placement of enemies and clutter.
>>735926187No, people just knew it would be good because it was made by the former Fallout developers before that became a curse.
>>735926170Because they dumbed the RPG mechanics even more in Skyrim and that was easily their best selling game of all time
>>735925371>70s isn't part of the cold warare you stupid or what
>>735925948Because a big single player RPG is always going to have more mass appeal than a co-op shooter. It’s the same reason why The Witcher 3 won GOTY in 2015, or why Expedition 33 won it last year.
>>735925282the director said the opposite not even a month ago
>uhm ackshually I sold them the hammer and the cement, I built 90% of the building
>>735925989>My ranting about how you're frustrated is an explanation that I'm not a schizo!Uh huh.
>>735926297I liked how Fallout 4 wasn't even an rpg anymore.
>>735926067I know, but people who started the series with 3, and thought Fallout was literally about white picket fence Americana was a very large majority of people taking part in the discussion at the time.
>>735910830Fallout New Vegas is loved despite the Bethesda part.
>>735926480yeah that's why every Obsidian game after was a flop
>>735926502Pillars of Eternity sold bigly.
people dont actually like obsidian itself we liked Sawyer and allvelone they made new vegas what it was
>>735926440Sorry, I wasn't on reddit or wherever you were having these discussions. Basically everyone I spoke to about it back then was really excited. Even those who’d started with Fallout 3 saw this as simply more of the same.
>>735925982Can your redneck lardass even raise your body out of your chair, much less your boot?
>>735926189I do like the idea that they were going for with them in the sense that they were your main source of navigation through the DC ruins, and that you could actually use the in-game metro maps to figure out where to go. There’s also certain metros where you can tell they tried to differentiate it by giving it a gimmick like them being heavily irradiated, or having one that’s completely flooded, so you have to swim through it. I think the feeling of sameness comes from the fact that they reused so many assets for them. But then again, I don’t see how you could make metro tunnels visually distinct when the whole point of them IRL is that they’re meant to look alike.
If by killed it you mean ruined the franchise then sureI had a really good friend who hung out with me every day back when NV came out, I remember him being super amped about it. I was reluctant (I just had a bad feeling, turns out I’m always right), but ready to play it. Then the hallways. Immediately it was a huge turn off and me and the bro started picking apart the differences a little. Years later I realized NV was so bad it is literally unplayable on Normal, unlike 3, the game DEMANDS you put it on very easy then still pisses on you, outrageous
>>735926579Avellone barely did anything, he basically just made a couple companions and worked on the expansions besides Honest Hearts.To be fair to Avellone Dead Money is utter based kino but besides that it was mostly people like Gonazles and Sawyer.
>>735926502Pillars of Eternity effectively sparked a renaissance in CRPGs. You could even say that its impact was far greater than that of NV, as it essentially created an entire genre
>>735926419Yeah
Fallout NV has some of the worst dungeon design imaginable. Vault 22, Vault 34 and REPCONN in particular are fucking atrocious and I dread going through them in my playthroughs
>>735926623Sad News
>>735926616>I don’t see how you could make metro tunnels visually distinct when the whole point of them IRL is that they’re meant to look alike.Yeah, that’s definitely impossible. Right
>>735926296> People knew a team with a history of failure would make a good game.Doubt
>>735924417Reminds me of a quote from some old game blogger roughly "Fallout is about the wild world that emerged from ashes of nuclear fire while Bethesda thought is about the ashes"
>>735926754Why would you dread going through them when they're optional?Just don't go in them, a great part about new vegas is that you have ways to avoid doing the stuff you don't like unlike fallout 3 where you have to do little lamplight.
>>735926364No this is more like the architect gets the credit, which to be fair they usually do
>>735926819>fallout 1>fallout 2>failureWhat did he mean by this?
>>735926819All three of their games released prior to NV were hits among target audience.
>>735926830Them being optional doesn't excuse them being bad, but also they are tied to other quests, and as a person who likes to clear dungeons they're fucking terrible
>>735926819How were they failures?
>>735926583I started with 3 (I was 10 when it came out) and I remember a lot of the initial disappointment from NV came because it didn’t feel as bleak, intimidating and oppressive as 3. People loved the vibe of 3. Also, contrary to what a lot of people say now, there were actually some people who preferred 3’s story because it was a more personal and emotionally driven story rather than NV’s very impersonal story that was strictly about politics. Another big point is that exiting Vault 101 and seeing the wasteland for the first time was a big “wow” moment, and NV didn’t capture that, since the game begins with you exiting Doc Mitchell’s House unceremoniously. IIRC, a lot of what I heard about NV at the time was “it’s better from a gameplay perspective, but it’s soulless”.
>>735926847Nah. Architect isn't just yolo artist who draw buildings. And he will be fucked in the ass if something bad happens.
>>7359264043 sentences12 wordsRantSo we found another word you don't know how to use.Are you a native English speaker?
>>735911038there is no other engine other than Creation Engine that allows for the kind of freeform todd-like gameplay you get in fallout or elder scrolls, try again.
>>735926980Repconn can be skipped by pickpocketing the sniper or hacking his computer.Vaults are thankfully optional quests because vault layouts suck fucking dick in every fallout game, however at least the vault narratives were good in new vegas, I really liked the plant people one because of the narratives tied to it including the NCR's food production issues and the election vault was interesting.
>>735927047Yeah, sorry, but I was on the other side and we were having a laugh at the kids who love Fallout 3. What I mean is that nobody takes people who prefer Fallout 3 seriously, neither now nor back then.
what did todd mean by this?
>>735927021The IP got sold for 25 million. Once a competent studio got hold of it it became massive.
>>735927230Todd was behind the Fallout 3 hardcore style post
>>735927249Beth aren't competent and the only reason it was sold is because Fargo is a Todd tier fraud.
>>735927047>Another big point is that exiting Vault 101 and seeing the wasteland for the first time was a big “wow” moment, and NV didn’t capture that, since the game begins with you exiting Doc Mitchell’s House unceremoniously.That's hilarious to me since pretty much everybody agrees nowadays that the first section of 3 is pretty fucking bad.
>>735927169That was only true at the time of Morrowind release. It was really advanced at the time. By the time Oblivion was released Bethesda’s engine was already outdated.
>>735926660Doesn't change the fact that the game itself was meh, and the series itself is mostly just forgotten.
>>735927318Copium is a helluva drug.
>>735927249It was sold off not because of the developers, but because of the incompetence of the company that owned it. None of the games that brought Interplay down were made by the developers of Fallout 1 and 2
>>735927071Another strawman! You sure love those.To get back on point, you still haven't provided any proof of your position.>Techniques are subjective and can't be measured because I said so! Art can't be measured by quality of the applied technique.I'm still waiting on your proof. Or are you going back to your "you mad, need a tissue" strawman?
>>735927374What the fuck are you talking about, people were cumming over the graphics in Oblivion.It's only in hindsight that people laugh at the character models instead of glazing the environmental art like they should.
How retarded do you need to be to fall for this overblown tabloid bullshit? Obsidian and Bethesda are on good terms.
>>735915571>They’re immersive simsLmao>with CRPG elementsWHEEZE
>>735926583literally on /v/, in like 2010.
>>735927047Even on release I never thought much of the 'exiting the vault' scene. Like who gives a shit? It's basically the same as exiting the sewer in Oblivion. Now I see retards basedpogging at a remake of what was basically the text description of the exiting the Fallout 1 starting cave, complete with a forced bullshit where natural sunlight hurts your eyes.
>>735927512why are Fallout fans so parasocial? Pretty sure elder scrolls fans don't act this way
>>735910961It did that to Bethesda lore as well but less people noticed it because Bethesda has only done that to their own stuff.
>>735927550I know you're lying because I was there.
>>735927598The last tes game was basically decades ago at this point, the average tes fan is old enough to have zoomer kids.
>>735927643Also Bethesda lore was shit in the first place. Nobody would give a fuck if they blew up the brotherhood of fallout 3.
> people were cumming over the graphics in Oblivion.And other things that never happened
>>735927416It still makes it into the top lists of CRPGs.
>>735924579Bethesda is actually allergic to actually referencing past events. If the show is referenced in 5 at all(assuming we even see 5 before the 2040's) it will be offhand remarks about something pointless and that will be that.
>>735927496I would love to prove you showed some objective evidence of your claim of quality. If for no other reason to tear it apart.As we both know you can't provide objective proof of said quality.Know you are asking me to prove you can't provide objective evidence. My strongest evidence is you haven't yet.
>>735927193Don’t get me wrong, as I’ve gotten older, I see flaws with the game that I didn’t see when I was younger, but I feel the game still isn’t a bad game and it’s actually become a bit underrated now (which is ironically considering how popular and heavily praised it was on release). Call me a nostalgiafag, but I really feel this idea that it’s somehow this 1/10 abomination of a game just isn’t being fair to it.>>735927373A lot of people back then genuinely loved it because it was their introduction to the Fallout universe and that section does do decent of easing a newcomer into the world, even if it is a bit slow. I personally compare it to the opening section of Kingdom Hearts 2: it’s slow and can drag in spots, but it’s remembered for having a really good payoff.
>>735927782It will be at most a computer terminal entry if beth even bothers to do those in fallout 5.
>>735927698It happened
>>735927249Yeah but Fallout 1 and 2 weren't bad games at all.
>>735927598>Pretty sure elder scrolls fans don't act this wayNo, it’s literally exactly the same. Only instead of NV, they have Morrowind and its modders. But to be honest, they’re far more chill and even make and help create mods.
>>735927797So you can't defend yourself, got it. Maybe your other personality has something to say schizo?
>>735927909>Morrowind and its moddersdevs*
>>735927598Go to Morrowind threads. There is a TR shill that would put this thread to shame. He has a fucking roster of boogeymen that goes back over a decade.We are pikers in comparison to that dude.We are visitors. That fucker LIVES here.
>>735927909The Morrowind modding community is actually insane if you follow it, it' snow at the point where zoomer modders are coming in and actually taking the time to join the community and work at building things with the old guard. Legit they will probably have all of Tamriel and beyond added to the game in 20 years if they can actually keep a constant flow of new blood.
>>735927834Yes they were. Nostalgia is clouding your judgement.
>>735928114Bad compared to what?
>>735927815It's fine when you play it through the first time but holy shit does it drag on repeat playthroughs. It doesn't help that it's just fundamentally shit when it comes to your choices actually mattering. Like, there's so much lost potential in actually making your stats matter. It's hilarious how you can get picked on by a bully when you are 10 strength megachad.
>>735928114In what ways were they bad
>>735928000> Please don't notice I still can't provide objective evidence.We don't expect you to at this point.
>>735928014>We are visitors. That fucker LIVES here.There are just several of us>>735928084Yeah, I’m really glad the project’s back on track. I’m keeping a close eye on it, and work is in full swing as never before.
>>735926767DC was a city planned by three men and built to specifications. Two centuries later the metro stations were designed by two men, and all downtown stations built before expansion projects and cost cutting look the same.Moscow's system had multiple designers (some of them foreign), a large committee from the start. Its development was interrupted and restarted several times, direction also changed along with the dictators. Plus Russians have the same notion of opulence as gypsies - tacky, garish, chaotic, over the top.
>>735928146A few of the choices you can make in the section do have an impact when you return to the Vault later in the game though (mainly who lives or dies during the initial escape).
>>735928194>WeI'm glad your identities can agree with each other. It must be rough when you can't get along with yourself.
>>735928142Other video games in the genre.
>>735928234Sounds like a cope
>>735928328For example?
>>735910961they could have done a 1 for 1 NV dialogue show and it would be great
>>735910830I don't think he does personally. But Bethesda obviously does.>>735910961Fallout is dead.
>>735928328Such as?
>>735928176Point and click movement.Simplistic TB combat.Being turnbased
>>735927249>The IP got sold for 25 million.That’s half true. Initially Interplay were licensing the games to Beth but due to the retards managing Interplay, they had to sell the IP to stay afloat but retained publishing rights for the old games for some reason and the right to make an online game with the IP. The Beth legal team, being the crooked Jews that they are, decided to fuck around with Interplay to strip them of their remaining rights which eventually had the courts forced Interplay to hand over their remaining rights to the IP.
>>735928443Thats literally just most CRPGs
>>735928196Oh no.I didn't realize you haunted Fallout threads as well.Are you going to do the exactly three " I hate that guy" samefaggotry you do in TES threads?
>>735928314> He still thinks is a private conversation.You know everyone can see us ,right?
>>735928585No, I'm a different anon
>>735928373Baldurs Gate
>>735928549I think most people prefer the style of gameplay 3 introduced. Adapting VATS into a slow-mo targeting system was pretty smart. In fact, I suspect that the reason 3 didn’t have iron sights was to encourage you to use VATS and thus make the gunplay more dependent on stats.
>>735928549Correct.
>>735928734Lol
>>735928734But thats one of the best RPGs of all time, being worse than Baldurs Gate does not make it a bad game at all
>>735928698The ol NTA. Classic.
>>735910830I liked NV for the way the different factions worked, for the world building. For the variety in weapons and ammo types and skills.Fallout 3 was better in pretty much every other way and more fun overall even if it wasnt as interesting as NV.
>>735928748It has it's tradeoffs but yes most people definitely prefer it
>>735928832Being way worse does.
>>735928346Vastly different design philosophies. And Bethesda just copied how it actually is IRL. They also copied more stuff from real D.C. Did you know the city's water supply comes mostly through an underground aqueduct that runs from Potomac Falls 12 miles upstream? Until the 21st century the city didn't need any pumping stations to have running water with sufficient pressure. It's why faucets and toilets in FO3 are still usable.
>>735911038Fallout 3s art is kino
>>735928672Mate I need you to calm down and understand. It's just you in your room. There's no other person there agreeing with what you post. It's in your head. You are not a "we," just a single individual.
>>735928917Except its not
>>735928114t. hasn't played Fallout 1 or 2
>>735928942They’ve already strayed quite far from the real DC with all that Art Deco crap, so I really don’t think that "it’s just like real life" is a good reason for the Metro to be awful.
>>735928942Bethesda is actually based where FO3 takes place, so they probably knew the area well. Of course, they had to take some liberties with size to fit the entire map into a space that 7th gen consoles could handle. NV’s adaptation of the Mojave is near 1:1 by comparison, but I think that’s because NV’s map in general covers a smaller area than 3 does.Interesting to know that’s probably where the got the idea for the water purifier plot though.
>>735928832Judging by Fallouts reception compared to Baldurs Gate the fans of that era weren't.The disparity was not minor. Baldurs Gate massively out performed Fallout.A more modern equivalent would be Skyrim vs Kingdom of Amalur.
>>735910961Gotta wipe the West Coast's lore clean so we can have more Brotherhood, more evil mutants, MORE Enclave, and MORE LIBERTY PRIME HAHACOMMUNISM IS SUPER BAD BEEP BOOP FOOTBALL THROW
>>735911378>Can we stop referring to artfags as devs?Everyone wants to call themselves a game dev nowadays. You are right though, artists are not game devs unless they worked on in-engine area design. Any mook that's there just to put together 3d meshes and paint textures and nothing else shouldn't really be platformed.
>>735912415The concept art its cool but people like todd are such tasteless faggots that in order to let people do actually cool shit they have to be tricked into thinking they are the ones in control like Kirkbride did during the development of morrowind. This is only exacerbated by Emil Pagliarulo and whatever unsufrable old guard doing stupid shit with their ips.The fallout 3 team might have made the basis of new vegas but obsidian had the right vision and direction to make a masterpiece.
fallout 4 is great nv sucks (its a 7.8/10) game yall retarded/thread
>>735929069Be careful if you give Ian the SMG.Yeah I played that turd of a game after Fallout 3. True I didn't have the stomach to try 2 after the slog of playing the first one
>>735929198I think people forget that Fallout was a modest IP prior to Bethesda getting ahold of it. Plus, the franchise was practically dead thanks to how awful BoS was. 3 pretty much saved the franchise, no matter how much NMA posters seethe about it.
>>735927249Sales are not indicative of a game's quality though. Plenty of mediocre games sell millions while great games remain relatively obscure
>>735929198>>735929342If it weren’t for Fallout, there wouldn’t be Baldur’s Gate or any other CRPG. It’s the pioneer of the entire genre, and you can draw a direct line from most CRPGs back to Fallout
>>735929342More people should play BoS to get some perspective. Not watch it on jewtube, go and emulate it. You can tell some people out there liked it because it looks like proto-Borderlands.
>>735929328ok
>>735929342The franchise was dead courtesy of Interplay’s retardation and cancelling Van Buren because it wasn’t possible to shit the game out in a 6 month development cycle. BoS was simply insult to injury
>>735928990When did I say anyone agrees with me on anything.All I stated is your frustration is apparent for all to see.One of the biggest tells is you feel the need to put words in my mouth so you can make arguments about things I never said.You clearly know this is a public forum and are worried about how you are being perceived.A little late if you ask me.
>>735928672Good night schizo! Maybe in the morning one of your personalities can think up a reason for why art techniques are subjective and cannot be defined or measured.
>>735929345They are though.
>>735929675They aren't though
>>735929613Uh oh melty. You should use a name so I know which personality I'm talking to.Anyway, if the thread is still up in the morning, I'll respond to your next strawman.
>>735910830What is this crybaby nigger babbling about? Fallout 3 was a massive success and sold slightly more than F:NV. F:NV built on the weaker areas of FO:3 (namely, the story/rpg elements), so of course it's remembered more fondly.
>>735929157>NV’s adaptation of the Mojave is near 1:1 by comparison, but I think that’s because NV’s map in general covers a smaller area than 3 does.New Vegas uses actual topological data for the area and is... l want to say something like 1:16 scale? The biggest loser there are the mountains, which get downgraded into rocky hills, but for walking around the scale mostly works. You don't usually feel the downscaling until you're on your second or third playthrough and know where stuff is.
>>735929383Wasteland says hello.It isn't even the driving force behind post apocalyptic RPGs
>>735910830Delicious seethe
>>735929453Ironically, I feel BoS is what Fallout has become starting with the TV show. It’s become a quirky Reddit action series. Weird since FO3 had some survival horror vibes alongside its shoot and loot aspects. I’m guessing there must have been some internal changes at Bethesda since then. Skyrim is the last Beth game I played that feels like it has any soul.
>>735929638So you want me to come up with a reason why I am correct?I would go with because I am.
>>735929760Have you even played Wasteland? It’s got absolutely nothing to do with CRPGs. Fallout was the one game that established the concepts of CRPGs that are still followed today.
>>735929720Conversely you could objectively prove your quality argument once and for all by providing objective evidence.Since you can't you won't.You won't even try because as embarassing as things have gone for you so far it would be far worse if you actually made an attempt.Even you are not that stupid.
>>735929895Revisionist history is revisionist.
>>735913526Inon Zur's fallout soundtracks are phenomenal
>>735929383>>735929895The first Baldur's Gate and infinity engine were in development 2 years before Fallout came out, and Bioware would have delivered them regardless of what was happening at Black Isle. It was their engine that would be later used for more DnD games.Independently of that, Larian was working on the engine powering Divine Divinity before Fallout was revealed at E3.
>>735930285Divine Divinity is a Diablo clone and has nothing to do with this at all.
>>735911682fallout 4 works best as a platform to try and port a better game onto like fallout 3 and new vegas.
>>735910830Good to know New Vegas lives rent free in the minds of Bethesda devs. Maybe it could motivate them to make a better game
>pay $5.75M for Fallout IP>make Fallout 3>it's good>have some studio do a little spin-off title with an 18 month development cycle while you work on Skyrim, no big deal>lauded as the best Fallout game in the franchise Can't say I wouldn't feel touchy about it either
>>735930617Didn't seem to motivate Obsidian, considering their work after New Vegas
>>735911682It's a fun looter shooter if you remove every element of story.I'm not joking when I say the vast majority of content mods simply add new enemies, new mechanics relating to enemies, and weapons while skirting past the unsalvageable story.
>>735910830Fallout 3 troons keep losing
>>735930829There's not really anything you can do with the story without a herculean amount of work. Maybe AI voices change this at some point but then you'd have a mountain of scripting to do if you wanted to add quests and alternate resolutions to stuff. Don't blame modders for not messing with it.
>>735930827And it didn't seem to motivate Bethesda either despite their constant seething
>>735913985yeah I remember that
>>735930791By whomst?Critics did not treat NV well at all.The only Fallout game that the critics disliked more was 76.Even with that 76 was a bigger financial success. I don't think NV outperformed any modern Fallout game financially.
>>735931018By fans and just generally everyone nowadays
>>735931003I doubt they care, considering people are still playing F4/F76 more than New Vegas
>>735912492yeah, i guess cult following has more weight then big number sales. nobody going to the capital wasteland to do silly larps. https://youtu.be/MvF-RJcfEko?si=x0pNKEoIkBJBlLVg
>>735925593>Did Fallout 4 and the show bring in this many fucking retardsYes, you would not believe how many of the people who suck this shit off have not played the games. Or maybe you would, either way it’s grim as fuck.
>>735930791Obsidian's rise to fame is all about making large sequel/spinoff mods for games of other studios, using said studios' tools, libraries of assets and already established settings. They couldn't even make an original setting using some licensed engine, they always had to parasitize someone else's marketable franchise.
>>735931081Any proof of that?Thought not.I will fully concede NV is big with the trans and hipster crowds. No evidence exists to show that is a widespread opinion.
>>735931085They definitely do care
>>735913418Indpendent vegas (Courier died before the battle) and killed every faction except Khans, is a bit aggressive.
>>735930935Thing is Skyrim has a few modders that took it upon themselves to make the flat quests have more depth, even if limited with modifications to the areas and dialogue itself.Fallout, as far as I know, has no one even close to doing something like that because it's all so boring and uninspired that they'd rather go create some shit like spreading ghoul infestations and night raids to encourage walking through the same area for the fourth time.
>>735931162Until NV no IP that Obsidian worked on got a sequel.They were franchise killers.
>>735931245There are many New Vegas threads on /v/ while barely anyone talks about 3 unless it's being shit on. So it's more like a universal thing at this point
>>735931287Where?
>>735931131>No one is doing autistic larp in the country's capital and instead go bother not vegas mind you but a small town that has nothing else going on
>>735911682prety sure people were just playing with sex mod and jerking off, or turn it into stalker survival shit lmao
>>735931370Fallout season 2 was based around New Vegas so it's clear Bethesda has taken notice of New Vegas's large popularity.
>>735931245>Any proof of thatShow me the dedicated communities for Fallout 3? Show me the live meets ups and festivals? Show me the major modding projects not just in NV but other games, show me the dedicated fanart and fan projects for 3. Even the show as dogshit and fucking awful as it is doesn’t take place out east but in the west. That’s the proof there, and all you can do is shit yourself and cry tranny like every Skyrim baby faggot who sucks off Bethesda.
>all of that dramatic build up before you leave the vault>this is the hideous ass world that greets youit will never stop being funny
>>735931474The most popular mod is putting 3 in NV, if no one cared about 3 no one would have bothered.
>>735931458>He thinks Bethesda has any real say in the showlol. They're consultants at best.
>>735931131It probably helps that the Mojave is an actual wasteland, so it lends itself well to LARPs. The Capital Wasteland IRL is just a normal city + farms.>>735931327Tbf, KOTOR 3 was planned, but then it got canned. Also, they made 2 South Park RPGs.
>>735931530Because Fallout 3 is shit and can’t run on modern systems, not to mention it’s still an NV mod not a 3 mod. The only thing you could think of still shows how NV still holds the top spot.
>>735931549New Vegas is so popular that the biggest recent Fallout media is about New Vegas, at this point it's impossible for Bethesda to avoid the praise surrounding New Vegas. Which is clear why articles like the one OP posted were written. Very delicious seethe from them
>>735931674If no one liked FO3, no one would have bothered to preserve it in such a way. There’d simply be no interest in playing it at all, in any form. It’s also not like FO3 DOESN’T have a modding scene.
>>735931674Well NV is a fallout 3 mod, but that's besides the point. People wanted to play Fallout 3 with all of the NV upgrades as well as integrate it well. If no one cared again no one even would bother. It is the biggest mod for NV next to the frontier(lol)
>>735931729>The TV show took place in the 2nd most recent single-player Fallout gameOkay? And that article is about former Bethesda employees, who haven't worked at the company in years.
>>735910830Bethesda's perception on New Vegas and its success is immature and pathetic
>>735931794But most of the major modding projects are for New Vegas, obviously since it's more popular 3. I genuinely can't think of a major mod currently being made for Fallout 3.
>>735931364> It is quite popular on the site full of troons and hipsters.Not the flex you think it is.
>>735931848Bethesda helped make the game and had to instruct Obsidian on how to use the engine effectively, so I doubt they dislike it. There’s genuinely no concrete proof that Bethesda hates NV, especially since the NV staff all said their experience with working with Bethesda was positive.
>>735931794>If no one liked FO3Why are you such a slimy faggot? This started with you crying how NV wasn’t lauded as the best and asking for proof, and now that it’s been given that people think it’s the best all you can do is try and make something up that was never said. Seriously how much of a corporate cocksucker are you? I bet you do this for free as well, imagine doing damage control for free. KWAB.
>>735931836So New Vegas continues to live rent free in Bethesda devs minds even after they leave Bethesda, beautiful
>>735931909A large mod that restores all cut districts and the metro lines that connect them came out this winter.
>>735931909Because NV has some QoL features that 3 doesn’t and since the games are near identical in terms of gameplay and assets and 3 can be played through TTW, there’s little point using 3 as a base.
>>735931815>Well NV is a fallout 3 modAh this cope, which you faggots pull out of your ass whenever you get btfo. I mean you could say that if you ignore everything about the game and what classifies a mod. >People wanted to play Fallout 3 with all of the NV upgrades as well as integrate it wellFunny how it’s them putting it in NV rather than just modding all of them into 3. You are effectively trying to say that the NV community putting 3 into NV is somehow a point for it.
>>735932013>Talking about New Vegas during a podcast about season 2 of the show is living rent freeNot very bright, are you?
>>735931943Thats Reddit
>>735931960The Obsidiots truly believe Bethesda actively sabotaged the sales of NV , all of which was going to them, to keep from giving Obsidian a million dollars.Yes they believe Bethesda cost themselves 10s of millions to save a million.
>>735932229>>735932229>Yes they believe Bethesda cost themselves 10s of millions to save a million.I would 100% believe it if the game was published by Sega.
>>735932141>"You always get those guys jumping out of the woodwork to say, 'New Vegas is the best! Bethesda sucks!'Rent free HAHAHAHAHA
>>735932135>Funny how it’s them putting it in NV rather than just modding all of them into 3.Because the New Vegas version of gamebryo is stabler than the FO3 version.
>>735932135>Funny how it’s them putting it in NV rather than just modding all of them into 3NV has more features and engine upgrades because it came out 3 years after F3(No shit) so of course they would mod it into NV. What a stupid point to make.
>>735932190Not sure if serious. Reddit may have more troons but this is hipster central.
>>735919497Not really much of a deviation, given that the Kings get brutally slaughtered in like, half of their endings.
>>735925545NV can run like butter today after a shitload of mods, it's probably the most stable I've ever gotten a game using Beth's tech. But you're probably right in that normalfags wouldn't really know or have the patience for that either.
>>735910830>waaah we made assets and an engine and then someone else actually tried to make a coherent story worth it
>>735932330Reddit and Youtube represents the most normie opinions
>>735932330Hipsters would play some of the most obscure games. Not necessarily to completion though.
>>735932313>>735932318>Because the New Vegas version of gamebryo is stabler than the FO3 versionAgain riding off the back of a more stable and popular game while crying that it’s because more people like it. And samefagging you pathetic cuck>inb4 s-schizoYou’re clearly posting from your phone and PC, I mean these two posts basically say the same shit but are like seconds apart, you really must not have any confidence in your own bullshit if you have to pretend to be multiple people just to agree with yourself.
>>735929317I wonder what his initial hunger design pitch was then, or the ascended sleepers.
>>735911957This was the biggest reason I can't go back further than NV.Fallout 3 not even having proper ADS is so much hot garbage.Of fucking course NV had more success when it got the gunplay up to the bare minimum standard.
>>735932502>Take an engine and work on it some more and it's somehow betterYeah, I'm not even sure what your argument is? Is the expectation that Obsidian would make the engine run more like shit?
>>735910830>does todd hate new vegas?He refused the New Vegas team a bonus because they were off their metacritic score by like 2 points
>>735932649Does ADS matter when you have VATS?
>>735932502Yeah, you are a schizo. The lack of common sense makes that readily apparent.
>>735932703This is funny you likely hit enter feeling smug and smart while the devs have for years kept bringing up how annoyed they are retards like you keep bringing this shit up
>>735932703This was debunked by Chris Avellone. It had nothing to do with Metacritic scores.
>>735932452Hipsters don't play games. They just claim to.
>>735932757>Chris AvelloneJust an industry paid pigDismiss what he lies
>>735932679>>735932730>take an engine from a game I have to pretend isn’t as popular as the game it’s riding on and has more fans, mods, fanart, and fan projects is not a sign that the the game is more popular You know exactly what I am arguing you just need to act obtuse because you have no counter and your samefaggorty was called out. >Yeah, you are a schizoPointing out that someone can post from two devices and get past the post timer in order to pretend to be multiple people in order to make it seem like others agree with their point isn’t schizophrenic. But you will say that while not giving any proof to the contrary due to it being exactly what you’re doing. I mean it’s so common there is a term for it but as usual samefags always pretend that the very concept is crazy.
>>735932821I’ll take the word of a guy who worked on the game over some random people on the internet.
>>735932842>is not a sign that the the game is more popularI never said that my argument, it was that people no caring about Fallout 3 was untrue
>>735932842I have no idea what you're arguing. I simply answered one specific part of your post schizo. Crazy how you took such a neutral response as some sort of declaration of war and started screeching about samefagging.
16 times the detail
fuck you todd
>>735910830>does todd hate new vegasI mean every single 3D fallout game since has been and will be compared to NV no matter what they do. Look at it like this, imagine if you work at a bakery, chill gig and you don’t have to do much but make mediocre bread and pastries for the people of the town. Then some dude comes to work at the bakery for a year and makes some of the best pastries the town has seen, he eventually moves on but people end up wanting the same quality and always compare what you make to what he made.
>>735932925>>735932930>I never said that my argumentIt’s what you’re arguing against right now and you failed and had to try and argue something else. >it was that people no caring about Fallout 3Show me where this was said? Show me where I said no one cared? You can’t because it never happened, what was being argued was that NV is more popular which was proven and now all you can do is argue a strawman and samefag. >I have no idea what you'reThis retard is lying too hard, everything I’ve said and argued is in these fucking posts so either he is not reading them (bullshit) or he is pretending he isn’t because he has no counter. Honestly why do subhumans like you always resort to this cope. This is not a verbal argument every word is here in the thread.>I simply answered one specific part of your post schizo.This is the third fucking reply you have followed the last in quick succession. You keep trying to cry how it’s crazy but can’t actually explain how like every retard that gets caught samefagging.
>>735927279I will now believe this to be true.
>>735911682Same, and this is probably a very fringe opinion but, Starfield is better than Fallout 4 in almost every way. Really just a few nitpicks.
>>735910830By this retards logic every dev that used unity or unreal assets should have all their work taken from them
>>735910830>we made the book but not the words that was written on it
>>735933273Whatever you say Mr. Schizo.
>>735910961Black Isle went out of its way to shit on fallout, even going as far to write over the names of the original developers of the first game and claim that Black Isle themselves are the creators of fallout 1 and fallout as a series, and all of their influence deserves to be purged. Every idea they introduce to the series is terrible.
>>735915625If the leader of your RPG faction is willing and able describe the totality of its plans to the first upjumped bandito that walks by and asks what the plan is, then your RPG is poorly written.
>>735930368>Divine Divinity is a Diablo clonet. never played it. You are as dumb as the publishers Swen had to sell the game to lmao
>>735933273>I forced you to have this argument with meYeah you can imagine me arguing that Fallout 3 was more popular than Fallout NV, but I never did. It started with F3/TTW being the biggest mod for FNV showing that people care about that game. If we're going to argue what is the "most popular" based on modding it would Fallout 4 with Fallout London being the highest effort original mod made for the fallout franchise
>>735911682You can make it a reasonably nice STALKER-like with waifus.
obsidian proved they are incompetent losers who cant code for shit and failed at every opportunity they've been given since riding bethesda's coat tailsgo play avowed faggots or that trash outer worlds 2
>>735934474>>735933919>Whatever you say Mr. SchizoI accept your concession, nigtard.>Yeah you can imagine me arguing that Fallout 3 was more popular than Fallout NV, but I never didFirst post in chain saying that NV was lauded as being better>>735930791Your reply saying it’s not the case and asking who said it >>735931018Anon saying who>>735931081You asking for proof >>735931245Me giving proof >>735931474Again it’s all here you deranged faggot. Trying to play dumb isn’t going to do anything save show you’re a desperate retard who has a meltdown when he is proven wrong online.
I still find it amazing that Fallout is the biggest IP that used GURPS as a foundational model to create S.P.E.C.I.A.L. making it a de facto a GURPS video game though not directly. The same goes for Daggerfall I believe hence Elder Scrolls from the get go wasn't bound to class limits like most of RPGs that are inspired by the D&D game system.
>>735910961morrowind and a big maybe daggerfall were the only good bethesda games. Skyrim with alright but not really an rpg. Everything else from f4, to 76, to eso has been completely mishanded and are nigh unplayable especially 76 after recent patches. 3 was mediocre at best. ill keep playing new vegas
Fallout should have died with 2
i'll kick your ass todd
>make fallout new vegas>miss out on pay bonus by 2 metacritic points>no bonus for game being remembered as a cult classic which the series mines for ideasshould've made it polished and shittier tbqh
