Vancian magic only works on tabletop and fucking sucks for video games. Having to rest after every single battle when youre fighting something every 10 minutes is not fun
>>735960223You should be able to get in three good fights though per adventuring day. First fight, short rest, second fight, short rest, third fight, long rest. Even if you did long rest after every fight it isn't like you are going to be strapped for resources.
The solution is to make cantrips not do 2 damage
>>735960223>Having to rest after every single battle when youre fighting something every 10 minutes is not fun>Fight>Short Rest>Fight>Short Rest>Fight>Long RestDo this the entire game, you'll still have enough food for hundreds of rests when the game is over.
if you're resting after every battle then you suck at the game.
>>735960676Kind of makes the entire system pointless, no?
>>7359602235e doesnt even have proper Vancian magic; you have no idea how bad it can get.But yes, Vancian magic is shit. No, it does not work on table top - it is painful and annoying there, too.
>>735960729No, resting a lot is the point.
>>735960223You shouldn't have to rest after every battle, but the system does suck.The solution is simple in that you just make time important so that you're actually managing resources rather than just spamming rests. Devs refuse to do this for some reason.
>>735960964But what's the point of resting when the resources are so plentiful that it requires no management?
>>735961345Companions, and certain cutscenes.
Can just as easily put an exclamation point next to the camp button when a companion event triggers. Or, they could've just balanced the game better so you aren't endlessly overflowing with camp supplies, thus incentivising actual management.
>>735962153Woops, meant for >>735961963
>>735962153Too much handholding.
>>735962816And constantly resting isn't?
>>735962885I think that if there was too much rests available, that would be handholding.
>>735961345If they made it too much of a pain in the ass no one would use magic user classes.
>>735961345The TTRPG team is expected to write some rule about resting to be able to cast more spells. BG3 then took the 5e rule about that even though it sucks.
>>735962938Read the first post in the reply chain.>>735963084Add potions that restore spell slots? Or they could buff and diversify cantrips?
>>735963270>Add potions that restore spell slots?Those elixirs already exist. There is nothing wrong with the current system.
>>735960729YesOnly PF Kingmaker got it right by having a global time limit so that time is an actual, in every crpg i’m aware of per rest abilities are fucking stupid
>nooo I have to manage my resources wtf!>Having to rest after every single battle when youre fighting something every 10 minutes is not funBG3 does the best job of not having a lot of generic trash encounters compared to every other single RPG out there.
>>735963334Those angel pots are quite rare.>>735963492I've been meaning to play the PF games. Are mages fun?
>>735960223Bought it on sale and I regret it. Vancian magic is garbage and melee classes are too strong.
>>735960223Vancian magic really only works for oldschool D&D. As soon as you leave the dungeon environment and the daily longrest timescale stops making sense it falls apart.
>>735963774melee is the weakest though.well outside of shadowblade at least.
>>735961345install a mod that reduces camp resources
>>735960223Kind of agree. I remember taking I think like two months to leave the BG2 starter dungeon or something due to resting over and over. Heck, you have games like Elder Scrolls where you take a rest just for stamina
>>735963876>melee is the weakest though.Opinion discarded, EK is the strongest class and you can do either melee or thrower.
Magic shouldn't be in RPGs until you're 3/4 through the game and resting should be tied to movement.
If a cantrip is supposed to be your default spell that you can cast infinitely with no preparation then it should get stronger with you as you get better in magic. I'm not saying a normal cantrip should ever be a tenth level spell, but it should be as usable as a basic weapon attack since mages are by ruleset prevented from being good at swinging weapons.
Is being boring the point of making these threads
>>735964465Cantrips in BG3 do scale with your mage level. Problem is that they are all single-target if you don't use the environment. But why would I waste time setting up a grease + firebolt combo, when I can just setup a fire wall and hurl fireballs to annihilate entire groups?
>>735960462The problem is that 3rd fight might be a major one where you will need every spell and you want to be prepared because of that.
Why are these faggots trying to simulate MMO chat again?
Stop being a bitch and take it on the chin sometimes Instead of doing all the spells and items using every time
>>735960729it is the system you doofus
>>735963760>angel pots are quite rare.You mean these one s you can literally make yourself? https://bg3.wiki/wiki/Elixir_of_Arcane_Cultivation
>>735964029The problem with BG1 and and BG2 is that not only they have vancian magic they throw a shitton of trash encounters at you, even when you rest there's a chance of waking up to a new encounter easily leading to a snowball of resting and fighting, in this aspect BG3 is big step forward.
>>735964169>EK is the strongest classOh why not just turn every companion into a fighter then? >heh, roleplaying in my rpg? not on my watch. I have to optimoooooooze!
>>735960223>Vancian magic only works on tableto-
>>735960223>Vancian magic only works on tabletop and fucking sucks for video games.It works exactly the same way. BG3 is the most accurate adaptation of any D & D system that has ever existed. >Having to rest after every single battle when youre fighting something every 10 minutes is not funLiteral skill issue. Stop acting like you need to front load DPS like some MMO fag. Use cantrips for damage and spell slots for CC and maybe fireballs if you can kill multiple people at once. Casters best spells are crowd control and buffs. Use your fighter, bard, rogue, or paladin for damage.
>>735967296>Oh why not just turn every companion into a fighter then?Some people do that, others just play the companions as the best subclass of their original class.
>>735967982>Some people do thatSome people east shit, anon. Doesn't make it right.
>>735968175What's the point of your last two posts?
>>735968241Optimizing the RP out of an RPG is stupid, like eating shit. I thought that was obvious.
>>735967296>melee is the weakest>no it isn’t you retard>oh yeah you optimization-fag? How dare you know how the system works optimization-droneJesus christ settle down dumbass.
>>735968341And? No one ever said otherwise, the conversation was about the best melee class.
I just hate concentration. Magic should be the end all be all powerful shit that drives old wizards to turn into liches. In 5e all mages are basically retarded.
>>735968595>>735968697>I'm gonna! I'M GONNA OPTIMOOOOOOOZE!
>>735968716Concentration is conceptually fine but in practice when every fucking second spell is a concentration spell, it just makes the entire class of spells worthless unless they are incredibly powerful. Every concentration spell competes with every single other concentration spell.
>>735968785Said no one but you.
Not being able to pause the game when your party notices a trap so everyone walks into it before the dice sound even stops is what sucks for videogames.
is the pathfinder mod any good or just a cherry on top of shit?
>>735960223It's because you can't force your players to conserve resources and it's questionable whether you should. If someone wants to rest scum to recover their magic slots just let them.
>>735960223>Having to rest after every single battle when youre fighting something every 10 minutes is not funSounds like a skill issue, I completed all of Act 1 without resting once. I never even saw the camp cutscene where you find out Astarion is a vampire until Act 2.
>>735966761So what's the point of it? You always have more supplies than you will ever need.>>735967214Wow, a level 1 slot, how useful. Oh, and it's an elixir too, that makes it even better!
>>735960223>Having to rest after every single battle when youre fighting something every 10 minutes is not funBALANCE MAN GONNA GETCHA
>>735968994Man I had enough problems with every character lining up to ambush me to fuck in my first playthrough when I rested whenever I needed to. I can’t imagine how many quest flags you missed.
>>735968898>Trap appears>Click Shift+Space for Turn Based CombatOh no, anyway.Turn Based is also incredibly strong if you want to fuck up the goblins without attracting any attention.
>>735960223WRPGs are all objectively terriblehaven't played a single one that hasn't been woke, boring, or with shit gameplayusually 2 out of the above 3sometimes all 3 at oncedisappointing after seeing so much glazing for these shit games online
>>735968830What I hate is the asspull that most if said concentration spells have a bottled variant. Meaning for every single one of those, those herbs/ingredients are more powerful than magic since they don't require an active mage to maintain it. In bg3 it's even more egregious since you can just step in a puddle of said potion and get all the effects.
>>735960223>mfw Pathfinder game everyone the wrong idea by denying you the reward if you took too long to clear chapter 1
>>735960223>Vancian magic only works on tabletop and fucking sucks for video gamesIt sucks on tabletop too. Only reason it hasn't been thrown in the trash in favor of a mana system is because it's a sacred cow.
you aren't actually supposed to be able to rest after every fight. part of the reason mages are so overpowered in d&d is because dms and game devs are too permissive about resting.
>>735969104The worst RPG is better than the best JRPG.
>>735969301There are literally spells in D&D, multiple of them, whose entire point is making it 100% safe to rest however often you want. Resting every step is baked into the rules of the game. It's not the DM's fault.
>>735969429I don't think you can justify that retarded claim with any actual argument. You're just kneejerk-reacting against anime because you're an unironic incel.
>>735960223Even tabletop D&D now includes shit like Cantrips which are low level spells you can cast endlessly. Essentially, it was a solution to make low level casters more interesting and less "well, you used up your two spells... now get into melee with your quarterstaff or miss shit with your sling, and PRAY nothing sneezes in the general vicinity of your d4 health". Entire thing with Arcane casters was always starting off extremely weak and then turning into goddamn gods.
>>735969104If you had a JRPG that let you HAVE SEX with a romanceable party member you'd have legs to stand on, but you don't.
>>735960847For me it's resources. I can't remember the last time I actually played with a DM who expects you to not only bring but effectively source reagents. That's how they used to get you, depending on setting some shit is impossible to find or store, so you ended up dragging everyone back home, hope they remembered some kind of quick way back and the reagents for it. Meanwhile smug as fuck cleric just sitting there praying for a refresh and his pack stuffed with the same two or three joss sticks for everything fucker. I remember telling the party I had dibs on wizard loot mostly just to see if they could restock me. Also inventing "ducking" because it used to matter if someone was standing in front of your fireball path not just end location of that fireball.
>>735969454no it's because wizard players are crybabies and will complain until there's a way to magically invalidate every one of their intended weaknesses. low defenses? nuh uh they have mage armor. weak to arrows? nuh uh they have wind wall. only get limited spells per day? nuh uh they can just teleport to the private naptime realm.
>>735960223>don't rest that often>miss out on dozens of camp eventsI think they want you to rest after every other fight.
>>735969716I miss our all monk AD&D party with the broken monk feats just doing 20-mile jumps to locations like we were that one morrowind NPC. Free easy healing, sell all the magic shit because we didn't need it. Lived like kings. Very boring responsible kings but still.
>>735969726I remember how sheer accessibility of spells and training cost was once the greatest check on wizards. Nowadays you get exhaustive lists of spells to freely choose from and scrolls are just loot DM hands to you.
>finally bought bg3 this year>oh boy time for magic>find out i bought a resource management gameyeah the very limited spell use system blows hardgame is high quality but not very fun
>>735969658>If you had a JRPG that let you HAVE SEX with a romanceable party member you'd have legs to stand onyou're not going to like the answer
>>735969948Thanks for reminding me how I got played by our DM like 20 years ago who asked me what kind of wizard I was making and I really wanted to have a master diviner who was a pseudo cleric mocking clerics and crapping wish spells out the ass.Of -course- they literally never gave me any access to anyone to learn wish from or find a scroll. Little fucker. Plus I got screwed by HD rolls so my guy was level 12 and had less health than most goblins. Just sobbing and casting magic mouth on everything.
>>735969923>hfw generally subpar monk finally gets to shine after party gets captured by the villain and imprisoned in cells that negates their power and they've been disarmed
>>735970050Are these amusing to watch? I appreciate the setup but I'm curious how aspergery this gets.
>>735970059I SAID SEX, NOT OFF SCREEN TIDDLY WINKS!Chrom is the only guranteed way to have even a hint of unseen sex.
>>735970086>I was level 12Wish requires you to be level 17 to cast it. Of course your DM wouldn't let you have it.
>>735970128One tiny thing I like about the otherwise pretty mediocre POE is their monks are very what you want from monks. Or what I fucking want anyway: Stupid kung fu feats and hands that "penetrate" (their version of AC) way harder than the plebs with actual weapons, and rolling crit combos. There's something immensely satisfying about popping off a skill that bounces you between enemies and if you get a crit you just keep hitting them, then using a skill that does a sum of damage depending on how many times you hit them: which is a fucking lot. Very Omae wo shiggy diggy.
>>735970050That's just magic in dnd, it's how it's always worked. It's the tradeoff for how powerful magic is. If anything they made it easier now that wizard can just change prepared spells at will.
>>735960223>Having to rest after every single battleHoly fucking casual!
>>735970268No you twonk that's just where the campaign was at the time I was goblin-healthed. The party took pity on me and started injecting my wizard with CON item steroids. That being said I think we actually like most campaigns stopped at 20 anyway. I don't think I ever did an epic campaign so it would have been a keystone cap anyway.
>>735970382>That being said I think we actually like most campaigns stopped at 20 anyway.Most campaigns actually don't get that far. It's the realm of bullshit fighting bullshit because PC and bosses both get too powerful, so usually normal campaigns end between level 10 and 15 or so.
>>735969527Sure I can. JRPGs are the progenitors of movie games. The "RPG" in JRPGs simply equates to seeing numbers on gear. There isn't the slightest hint of being an at least barebones RPG where you can do the most minute bit of roleplaying. Hell, most don't even change your character's appearance when you equip armour. >You're just kneejerk-reacting against animeFunny how you automatically assume I dislike JRPGs because of the visuals and not the dog shit gameplay, complete lack of customisation, zero player agency, soulless writing and garbage stories.
>>735969101Thanks, I've been trying to find out how to toggle that. There's too much that the game gives no indication that it exists, like non-lethal combat.
>>735964806i went in the shadowland fight (when you have to protect the portal) with my sorcerer with 0 spells and my bard and cleric barely having any and i still got through. on tactician
>>735964719Having character proficiency spurts happen every 4 levels kind of sucks because you keep running into scenarios where you're starting to run into enemies at that next tier while you're one level behind. It's like the game's difficulty's always running on a sine wave.
>>735964806So what, you don't have to run honor mode on your first playthrough. It if is a big one, you just die and reload.
>>735970723jrpg is watching over someone else's shoulder while he plays a campaign with other people. wrpg is sitting at a table alone playing a campaign with a robot dm that doesn't actually listen to you.
>>735970758>like non-lethal combat.It is incredibly weird that it is so useless with the exception of Minthara and Minsc, and that the mechanic is never mentioned.
>>735971245You can also use it to save the Masks if you feel like it, I think you meet one of them again in act 3 if you do.
>>735971297Oh right, 1 of the 4 masks can survive but only if you actually kill the hag. Does that dwarf chick actually show up again?
If you aren't using Gritty Realism your game sucks. Simple as. If you want comic book superheroslop go play a jarpig.
>>735971178>jrpg is watching over someone else's shoulder while he plays a campaign with other peopleNo. It's watching a recording of someone else's campaign where he is both the GM and the only player.
>>735960223spells limited by rest are retarded because you either- have to rest after every encounter - not immersive- have to conserve spells which in the end means you're using them only on the last boss in the dungeon - so caters are useless for 99% of the timedo this insteadmana bar, every spell has different cost, mana regenerates after every encounter so you don't have to buy and drink mana potions (it's no different than resting)I fixed your games, no need to thank me
>>735971441Fantasy has always been "capeshit" you fucking tourist, it's built into the foundation of stories about heroes who are just built different.
>>735971606>- have to conserve spells which in the end means you're using them only on the last boss in the dungeon - so caters are useless for 99% of the timeThey're spells, not items. You conserve per encounter but use per long rest. If you can't, that's just your autism speaking.
>>735971606>so caters are useless for 99% of the timeforgot to mention it's just not funlet me cast spider's web and then throw a cloud of cancer on the enemies every encounter, that's what casters are for
>>735971657Hello capeshit fan. Unfortunately your dogshit has never been the default. Storyshitting powerfantasies are a millennial cancer and have no place in true fantasy. Please make a fool of yourself by pointing at Hercules and King Arthur and Aragorn then back to Spiderman and Wolverine and saying >LOOK LOOK THEY ARE THE SAME THINGto embarrass yourself more.
>>735971931Yeah, we all remember that one time when after fighting a few orcs Aragorn had to rest a week.Your gritty realism can stay in "realistic" games, fantasy is allowed to be fantastic.
>>735972121>we all remember that one time when after fighting a few orcs Aragorn had to rest a weekI do remember when Frodo got stabbed and had to rest a week though.
>>735972163Yeah, because Frodo is not a hero, he's just some guy. Which is the point of the story.
>>735972121Terrible choice to critique lol, Aragorn does go weeks between fights. And even then he's a Fighter so he doesn't have spells with cooldowns anyways. And the actual Wizard in that story casts magic maybe 3 times across the entire epic lol.
When I first played baldur's gate I tried to avoid long resting as much as possible because I was worried there was some kind of clock going against me and if I dilly dallied too long I'd get consumed by the brainworm.
Concentration spells suck more.
>>735972480The main story ruins the game.
>>735972527>go to cast hold person>WHAT DO YOU MEAN HE'S NOT A PERSON>cast the dome of silence>they just walk outside the bubble
>>735972358Goalposts
>>735969079balanceman made the same spell slot garbage for PoE1, only fixed in PoE 2 by making the slots (and most of the spells/abilities) a certain number of uses per encounter insteadof per rest
>>735972480The camping mechanic is a slapdash of mechanics from earlier builds where crafting and camping was easy more intricate.
