Which one has the most roleplaying?
skyrim, obviously.
>>735961019Skyrim by a long shot. Fallout and Arcanum are good for role playing too.
>>735961019New Vegas.
Bg3 has roleplaying?Huh, I swear when I played it I literally couldn't do fuck all if I didn't have the "correct" character equipped at any given moment, and then after anything happened the narrator told me what to think and how to feel.
>>735961019Arcanum.
>>735961187Is it not like arcanum that lets kill anybody and then revive them through spells and because being brought back is so painful they just tell you all the info you need so you can release them (this pain is actually relevant to the main quest)
>>735961019Arcanum.>Fallout 2 is just a worse Fallout 1 in regards to RP>BG3 has dogshit characters and going off the intended good path usually makes the game feel like it's bugging out>skyrim isn't even remotely an RP game
>>735961187It has excellent roleplaying, but only if you're a Barbarian - then it lets you unga bunga your way through the entire game. You also get low DCs and advantage on most of your options.
>>735961304You can use Speak With Dead to get five questions answered by named corpses, but if you were the one to kill them, they'll refuse to answer anything unless you disguise yourself as someone else.
>>735961253Wow you can be a muslim in arcanum?
>>735961019Fallout 2 has a ton of roleplaying possiblity, and a ton of dialogue and stuff for ultra low int characters, but Arcanum has an absolutely insane amount of minor dialog changes and stuff throughout the story that reflect your specific character choices.BG3 and Skyrim basically don't even qualify as being in the same genre.
>>735961187This. >Try to play an old grizzled merc>Game makes my character smile or frown at it's own discretion>Tells me how my character feels and shows him spazzing out like a retard
>>735961495Worse, you can actually be W*lsh.
>>735961061Is this bait or are you stupid?
>>735961019TES always wins these, because roleplaying is just LARPing and no games do that better.
>imagine thinking you can role play as a party
>>735961253Activate your fucking windows.
>>735961019>Which one has the most roleplaying?Of what you show BG3 is most roleplayable as it has many, many choices to make so you can shape your own adventure. People just play 'til late act 2 then start a new run, which is completely different each time.Though I didn't play Fallout 2.Skyrim is a smoothbrain RPG.Never heard of Arcanum.I've heard Warhammer 40k: Rogue Trader and the first two Pathfinder games are very roleplayable.Also Shadowrun.And, of course Fallout New Vegas.
>>735961019Unironically, Skyrim, because you can stick to the way you want to play the game and beat it inky using those skills. Example, stick to conjuration and you never need to swing a sword. Stick to sneaking, and you can just avoid most enemies. You can beat it by just having followers and never training a single skill. Or train all your skills and become all powerful. It's up to you have your dragonborn plays.But as some others said, it's missing what makes other games rpgs, like attribute system, meaningful dialogue, actual choices instead of good ending or bad ending. Personally, I never cared about story quests and choices, since I always exploited the mechanics to get both rewards.My paladin dragonborn always ends up a vampire werewolf hybrid cannibal necromancer necromancy and sneaks around stealth archering his way around the game. Lol
>>735962427yep, cause no one actually cares about role playing. it's just your isekai avatar in all these games.
>>735962427shut up retard
>>735961091Nothing you do in Skyrim matters. It's a fake RPG. BG3 is much more roleplayable and choices are important and affect the world and characters in the long run. For that matter The Witcher 3 always has consequences to side quests hours later so you always get a payoff and feel you are in a living world. Skyrim is a dead world and story achievements are contained to the area of the quest. You can be the archmage of the entire fucking universe and no one will care. I put 62 hours in Skyrim and it was fun and very modable, but I wouldn't call what I did roleplaying. Of course you can roleplay somewhat and have a head canon for your character, but it's futile in the end as the game does not support that.
>>735963095nothing you do matters in any of these games.
>>735963095what concequences did witcher 3 have? i played it on release and i remember it being a very bland experience.
>>735963095It's also futile if the game snatches your character away from you and forces itself down your throat. Which is what BG3 does all the fucking time.
>>735961019I'm gonna start Arcanum. What's the most fun character build for it? Magic? Technology? Melee?
>>735962312Arcanum's a Troika game, so it released bugged out the ass and needed a lot of community patches. Now that it works, it's a party-based RPG in a magical fantasy world that hit its industrial revolution. There's a overall conflict between magic and technology (sufficiently powerful technology drains magic, and sufficiently powerful magic breaks down technology) as well as societal upheaval, and you get drawn into a conspiracy that may threaten life itself.
>>735963863Not sure what you mean, can you give an example?
>>735964295He biffed his save and got his brain eaten by the illithid at the crash site.
Choice and consequence is overrated asff, being given all the logical options to complete every quest is better
>>735961019Fallout New Vegas
>>735962312Arcanum is super jank, but you might enjoy it. It was created by the same studio that did VtM:B and Temple of Elemental Evil.
>>735964117Start with magic, tech builds are more difficult. Using a train is more difficult than just teleporting everywhere
>>735961019you'll need to define roleplaying firstassuming you mean c&c and reactivity, arcanumassuming you mean the way your stats affect combat, fallout 2assuming you mean sexing companions, baldur's gate 3assuming you mean playing pretend in your head, skyrim
>>735961019Probably Arcanum
>>735964117Magic has easily available options, and allows you to use trains in the early game while your magic aptitude is relatively low and straight up teleport between areas later.Tech is more or less a challenge run where you suck early on and have to craft all your stuff out of literal garbage.Melee is a grug run.Personally, I loved a throwing build - though getting a good throwing weapon is kind of a pain in the ass.
>>735964295See >>735961670It also doesn't help that BG3 has many comically evil choices, but doesn't have an alignment system.
>>735964224>>735964541Interesting. I might give it a go.
>>735961019Definitely Arcanum. It has the little RP details like racist NPCs refusing to trade with you if you play as an ogre or an orc. And it also has the big RP choices like being able to start a violent revolution that destroys the main city, or being able to join the villain.
>>735961019Arcanum > Fallout 2 > BG3 > Skyrim
>>735961670that is every RPG. Never have I seen an RPG that lets you choose if your character frowns or smiles in a conversation.
>>735961187>Huh, I swear when I played it I literally couldn't do fuck all if I didn't have the "correct" character equipped?
>>735963153>nothing you do matters in any of these gamesBG3 has plenty of that.Example of world changing choices: In Act 2 of BG3 you can choose to free the angel in the Shadowfell and end the Shadow-Curse, which is a world changing choice that matrers and affects the world.Example of character development: At some point you can make Shadowheart abandon her goddess, which is an impactful decision.Your coices have long term effects like losing your eye by letting the bard shove a needle into it and gaining a magic eye so you can see invisible people. This is a permanent status effect.
>>735965957No it isn't. Most RPGs don't zoom in on your character's face, tell you exactly how your character feels or makes them spaz out like a retard when they're in pain.
>>735966223and you'll just ignore all of the same stuff in Skyrimthis shit is beyond illusory. oh wow, I made a choice that means it was me! me!
>>735966542>same stuff in SkyrimAh yes the choice of doing a quest now or later.
>>735961019Skyrim definitely
>there's still pretending to be in the same category as gamers.
>>735961304Arcanum's conjure spirit pales in comparison to BG3s speak with the dead interaction. It's like a beta version of the concept.
>>735961590>Fallout 2 has a ton of roleplaying possibilityYeah if you want to RP a faggot obsessed with dated pop culture references.
>>735963206>what concequences did witcher 3 have?Most every side quest, even the small ones, have a payoff. You'd ride around and a guy you chose against 4 hours ago in a quick side quest will appear and fight you and you'll go "Oh, yeah. I did do that". All choices have impact. Like the bird lady in Blood and Wine. Heck, your choices affect Ciri to decide to be a Witcher or become empress. You can even choose which kingdom wins and hunt a King. In B&W there's a lady who was cursed by a beggar she refused to feed. She was turned into a monster. You can choose to lift the curse rather than kill her and turn her to a human again.Once restored to her human form, she can move into Corvo Bianco as your cook, finally finding peace after decades of isolation. The world is alive and every step has consequences.
>>735961019Cyberpunk 2077
>>735966542Skyrim doesn't have that, it is flat by design.And yes, if I make a choice that affect my adventure it was *me*. What would you consider an impactful choise? You seem like you take the opposite position on purpose and trolling.
>>735961019arcanum and it isn't close. this is a very very very obvious test/filter and it's funny how much of /v/ is failing hard
>>735967552You don't deserve anything but an AI responseSkyrim features numerous branching decisions that shape the narrative, faction outcomes, and character relationships, though many quests have fixed endings with only "do it" or "don't" options. Major faction choices include siding with the Stormcloaks or Imperial Legion in the Civil War, joining the Dawnguard or Volkihar Vampires, and choosing to join or destroy the Dark Brotherhood. Main quest and Daedric Prince decisions often carry significant moral weight:Main Quest: Choose to kill Paarthurnax (Blades) or spare him (Greybeards). Daedric Quests:Azura: Restore Azura's Star or create the Black Star.Clavicus Vile: Kill Barbas (keep Rueful Axe) or spare him (restore his memory).Hircine: Side with Sinding or the hunters.Mehrunes Dagon: Obey Dagon or spare Silus Vesuius.Namira: Join the feast or kill Eola.Vaermina: Obey the Prince or let Erandur destroy the Skull.Nocturnal: Return the Skeleton Key or keep it indefinitely. Other critical choices include:Civil War Diplomacy: Support Stormcloaks or Imperials in Whiterun and other holds. College of Winterhold: Kill or spare J'zargo. Whiterun: Aid Saadia (Redguard woman) or betray her to Alik'r warriors. Nature Quest: Pray to Kynareth for a sapling or cut the Eldergleam. Cidhna Mine: Escape with Madanach or kill him alone. Blood on the Ice: Turn in Wuunferth or investigate further. Delayed Burial: Help Vantus Loreius or Cicero. Vampirism/Lycanthropy: Become a Vampire or Werewolf (including Vampire Lord via Dawnguard). While some players note that many quests lack deep branching paths, these key decisions significantly alter the game's world, available allies, and specific endings.
>>735966427>Most RPGs don't zoom in on your character's faceMass effect>tell you exactly how your character feelsUnless I'm misunderstanding what you mean (if you can provide an example it would help), all the stuff that happens in bg3 of this sort of thing also happens in arcanum or bg 2 or icewind dale in the dialogue description>or makes them spaz out like a retard when they're in pain.Is this about the cutscenes with the brain trying to take over? You want the game to ask for permission to cause pain with psychic powers on your character or something? Do you also complain when your character screams after being hit in old RPGs?
>>735967736as expected of an AI retard, you don't even understand what is being discussed. Now ask the AI which of these choices changes the world instead of being isolated to just the specific quest.
>>735967736Holy fuck, the Skyrim generation is braindead lmao
>>735967857lol now compare it to the examples of what you posted for BG3. they're comparable if not identical. (and they aren't your choices, btw)
>>735968409come on man, the multiple choice test you are given to take are really yours!
Arcanum then BG3, Fallot series and Bethesda games are garbage.
>>735967739>Mass effectShepherd is an actual character, not blank self-insert, even if you can customise his appearance>Unless I'm misunderstanding what you mean (if you can provide an example it would help), all the stuff that happens in bg3 of this sort of thing also happens in arcanum or bg 2 or icewind dale in the dialogue descriptionThings like narrator telling how you feel after something happen while your character stands making various expressions. And I hated when BG2 and Icewind Dale did it as well, but at least I didn't have to watch my character contort their face.>You want the game to ask for permission to cause pain with psychic powers on your character or something?Or they could just be CON rolls? You know, the stat that determines how tough and resilient your character is.>Do you also complain when your character screams after being hit in old RPGs?Screaming in pain and making goofy faces is completely different.
>>735967736Lazy.There are choices in Skyrim, but as I said they're contained in the quest and don't change anything. Apart for becoming a werewolf I suppose. But by design the game keeps the status qou.
>>735961590Putting BG3 and Skyrim on the same level is really stupid, you haven't actually played it have you?
>>735962006bruh, how dumb can you be?
>>735968731how is choosing a side in the civil war and having cities altered not "world changing" to the game world?
>>735968840It must have a climax, I don't say otherwise.But how do cities alter?
>>735969020you've never played it, so I'll just ignore you now.
>>735969058As I said I played Skyrim for more than 62 hours and had fun, but you cant say it has more roleplayability than BG3.
>>735969020Jarls change and any quest tied to them becomes unavailable. Banners are replaced, some cities like Whiterun (and I think Solitude/WIndhelm) are permanently damaged. Some NPCs also get different dialogues depending on who won.
>>735961019>ArcnaumUnfinished boomer slop that requires a dozen patches to even boot up. Pass.>Fallout 2See previous comment.>BG3Pozzed tranny simulator where the act of even playing the game is a humiliation ritual.>SkyrimMediocre but with mods it can be anything you want it to be.
>>735961019Skyrim is the only game in the list where you can RP as a proper thief. So Skyrim wins by default.
>>735968678The whole "you are told your character is in pain due to supernatural bullshit" happens in NWN2 mask of the betrayer constantly and I've never seen anyone complain about that.You could just say "I don't like cutscenes in RPGs" and be done with it. That doesn't stop you from roleplaying, that's just you being an autist. Actual tabletop roleplaying is filled with adventures that go "you feel a sense of dread upon entering the chamber" and similar stuff.
>>735971709>Having a problem with the game directly going against my vision for the character is autismNah, you are simply a retard. I don't care if shit eaters complain about something or not, I don't need their validation. Having my 19 CON fighter spaz out in pain exactly like my 10 CON Wizard does is retarded. Having my grizzled old man character make a bunch of retarded faces in dialogue is retarded and directly conflicts with the character I created. All of this could be solved with a simple personality selector or something that enables/disables certain facial animations.
>>735972075Pure autism, or, more likely, just making up reasons to complain about [popular thing]. We've had rpg cutscenes and descriptions showing your character reacting for a long time, but only now there's faggots complaining about it.
>>735961019Didn't play BG3 but probably either BG3 or Arcanum
>>735972732Again, there is no world in which you can justify an RPG directly invalidating the character you created.And a text saying "You reel in pain" is far different from showing your character reeling in pain with hands and knees on the floor like a dog. And most RPGs with cutscene were games with a pre-determined character.
>>735972994>there is no world in which you can justify an RPG directly invalidating the character you created. This is some ridiculously childish shit. Every single player character in every single RPG is constrained by the limitations of the game and the lore. This applies to CRPGs and even TTRPGs.
>>735972994Which RPGs are real rpgs according to you? Cause none of the classics are real rpgs by that metric.
>>735973223all the classics had like 4 frames of animation, lol
>>735961019Arcanum > BG3 >>> Fallout 2 >>>>>> SkyrimThe gap between Arcanum and BG3 isn't large and it may even be equal in areas, BG3 certainly has a better variety of resolutions outside of talking, but Arcanum has so many hidden solutions that people are still finding new ones every year, that's because the Arcanum system is a much more solid foundation for sandboxing (outside of combat at least, BG3 also has it beat there)Fallout 2 is fineSkyrim has fucking nothing
>>735972994Do you object to combat shouts in games as well since you must play the totally unique stoic badass?
>>735961019All except, Skyrim, Skyrim is about going into caves/dungeons and killing viking undead/bandits, over and over and over.
who or what am I role playing as when I play something like... Icewind Dale or Baldur's Gate? A disembodied hand that directs things?
>>735971115We're talking about roleplaying not if the games buggy or well written
Theres litereally no way to roleplay in Skyrim, you can roleplay WITH Skyrim but the mechanics of the game do not allow you to actually do anything of the sort.
Is there any long lasting consequences in BG3 for doing stuff in a way you want or is it just a dozen ways to do something in a bubble while the rest of the world remains as is.
Skyrim has more roleplaying than "masterpiece RPGs" such as VtMB, you guys aren't ready for that TRVKE though.I'm serious, 90% of the quests in Bloodlines have one ending and maybe two or even three ways to resolve them if you're lucky, half of them are totally linear fetch quests.
>>735971115>with mods it can be anything you want it to be.Except a good game that doesnt require mods in the fist place.
>>735973120Nothing I have said has anything to do with game limitations or lore. I simply object to developers having a one size fits all approach to cutscenes. Can't believe I'm getting flack because I don't like it when the game makes the meek priest and the battle-hardened paladin act the same in cutscenes.>>735973223What the fuck are you on about?>>735973380To a certain agree, but it depends on the character I am playing. I wouldn't be opposed to more voice types, nothing wrong with more options when creating your character.
>>735973782There' a lot of far reaching stuff that will have consequences for act 3.
>>735973850You are getting flak because objecting to your character feeling pain is really retarded.
>>735973831Theres actually ton of different ways to roleplay in vtmbThe real problem is actually that each vampire clan plays so fundamentally differently that troika got spooked by the potential for one clan to not be able to finish the content, so they made the game lot simpler/easier than they should haveWho cares if you cant do side content as every clan, that adds replay value. They should have just verified the main quest was finishable, but noFor TESV its shit because stats matter so little, every race can basically use any weapon the same, its just matter of which starting powers and bonuses you prefer, everyone fels exactly the same
>>735973782Depending on the fate of many characters in previous chapters, they may not appear gain, removing quests and so on.Some characters will remember you helped or fucked them over (assuming the live).
>>735973850>I don't like it when the game makes the meek priest and the battle-hardened paladin act the sameyeah, i can see that
why should rando adventurers be making world changing decisions anyway?
>>735973831Every limitation in bloodlines is explained by the the tabletops rules. Like when you use dominate on Jeanette to convince her to tell you where Tung is she calls you retarded for thinking your low vampire abilities were going to work on a high level baroness
>>735961019I would say BG3 from a mechanical perspective offers the most RPG with many different choices and class fantasies, but I didn’t enjoy the story much. Skyrim has the better world and story but doesn’t offer much in terms of mechanics. Didn’t play the other two.
>>735973981I never said that. I object to how they make them respond to the pain. If the retarded looking spasms in BG3 were the result of failed CON check I'd be fine with it, but they aren't.>>735974094Glad someone finally understands what I'm getting at.
>>735974558Saying that the game has no real choices or role-playing because they didn't add a different animation based on your stats is retarded regardless of what how you try to justify.
>>735974363I also think, specifically in the case of how Dominate works as a power fantasy, Bloodlines does something really subtle and genius. You start the game getting Dominated by LaCroix whenever you so much as complain about something, gradually you learn how it works on mortals and even on some other weak-willed Kindred, then by the end the roles are reversed and he's frantically spamming it on YOU, desperately trying to get you to hand over the key, but by that point you're way more powerful than him and his attempts automatically fail.Having spent a good chunk of the game watching your own disciplines fail and gradually develop, it's so fucking satisfying to know that, at the very end, you've destroyed the Sheriff and become pretty much unstoppable to all of the kine and 95% of the Kindred in California.It's a great way to send off your character at the end of a run.
>>735974983Good thing I never said that.
>>735961019Arcanum, sadly most of the "gamers" on this board have only played the bottom two and so theyll undoubtedly be the popular (albeit incorrect) answers
>>735971595So you haven't played Arcanum
>>735975597Yes you did>>735961187>>735961670
>>735973981Different anon, but it's a good point. You're just disregarding it because you don't like this particular example. I can imagine a scenario where it's just the opposite. I.e. basically every RPG assumes some level of heroic bravery from the protagonist. You cannot roleplay a bumbling coward because the story scenes simply do not support characters that get scared and flee even though this isn't even a rare personality trait or literary archetype.The more story-oriented an RPG, the more character assumptions the author has to make in order to string the narrative along. If your character flees a pivotal encounter, the author would have to rewrite almost every aspect of the story to accommodate a diverging plot. Most RPGs basically just handle it the visual novel way. There are a limited set of choice moments with consequences that branch off of that, but you cannot diverge too much from the intended hero's journey.This is why some of the top replies mention Skyrim because, paradoxically, by having flat characterization and limited narrative consequence, it does very little to pigeonhole the player into specific motivations. You can absolutely roleplay a petty thief who ignores the Greybeards and pisses off to Markarth, gets rich pilfering the locals, and then retires to become a homesteading fisherman in Falkreath. The plot won't explicitly affirm your choices but it also won't inhibit them. That's the advantage of a mechanical sandbox.
>>735975986>You're just disregarding it because you don't like this particular example.I'm disregarding because it's a stupid point. No RPG can allow you to do everything without it stopping being an RPG and turning into just generic sandboxes (if you want to just do whatever you want you're better off playing kenshi which is not an RPG), and this particular limitation (noo muh character is showing pain in a way I didn't consent to) is so minor it's stupid to complain about.
>>735975984First one wasn't me, obviously. And the other guy may have been hyperbolic, but it was 100% correct. The game actively gets in the way of certain kinds of RP, like the example I gave before. But during my first playthrough has generic good guy Paladin, I could RP perfectly fine.
I started 3 different Arcanum playthroughts with completely different builds to see some of the differences.1- elf summonerUnlike dnd based games you get strong summons right at the start, you need to have high int and use mana potions to keep multiple around or you can keep 1 or 2 indefinitely, they can, to help during hard fights and dungeons you need to use potions and buffing and healing spells.2- human tech gunnerIt's kind hard at the beginning because you don't have enough bullets, when you level up a little so you hit most of your shots and get the schematic to craft bullets, things become much easier, getting some extra dex and the molotov and trap schematics also helps a lot in combat, it doesn't take that long, but you need to know what you are doing, so a new player is likely going to get filtered.3- gnome traderOne of the most out there characters I've ever played, only comparable game would be playing Elin and transporting itens to sell them at a mark up, if you level up your haggling skill you can buy raw material from merchants, craft the tech health and mana itens (you'll need to invest just 2 points in the herbalogist skill tree) then you sell then right back to the merchant a massive mark up, this is a legit infinite money cheat built into the game.Now you can build all the strongest gear and potions and give them your followers so they can clear combat encounters for your.I kind want to test out a rogue type character next, based around stealth and pickpocketing.
>>735976173>is so minor it's stupid to complain about.You say that, but if the game had your character smile and act shy when any of the male party members tried to initiate a romance, I bet you'd be properly pissed off.
>>735976469
>>735976923>that blue baryou just reminded me of how much i did not like the stamina system in this game as a tech char
>>735976547>comparing an NPC forcefully initiating a romance with a pain cutscene not having animations up to your tasteThe problem in your hypothetical isn't the PC acting shy, is that the romance started by itself.
>>735977130It's pretty annoying and it's the main reason I get killed is because of running out of stamina while kitting an enemy, but it's interesting that people can get fucked by drainign their stamina and not just their health, you just need to out for it and keep chugging stamina itens, I go into dungeons with like 50 of those lmao.
Tech? Magic? I'll show them the Real power.https://youtu.be/l3USff2ITpc
>>735977239The romance hasn't started, it's the NPC trying to to initiate the romance, which already happens in BG3. Still, you and I both know if the game made your character act bashful after a male NPC said something nice to the PC, you'd be upset.
>>735976173>I'm disregarding because it's a stupid point. No RPG can allow you to do everything without it stopping being an RPG and turning into just generic sandboxesMy point is that there's no clean delineation between RPGs and sandboxes. It's purely subjective based on where one thinks the line should be between meaningful player agency and distractionary detours. What you consider to be a stupid tangent could be foundational to someone else's roleplay. If the author creates consequential narrative outcomes for your specific roleplay, they must simultaneously be overruling someone else's.This big debate over what constitutes and RPG exists because RPG basically occupy the intersection of the narrative and gameplay. For a long while game devs, especially RPG devs, have experimented with the concept of a truly procedural narrative that dynamically evolves in accordance with player decisions. Despite so many major efforts, including Ken Levine spinning his wheels for over a decade, we are no closer to achieving this vision. And in my opinion, that is because narrative and gameplay are inherently in conflict with each other.Gameplay is about simple cause and effect. You perform an action, you get a corresponding outcome. This is easy to do with computers that excel at this sort of systemic interaction. String together all the causes and effects and you get random walk of events that makes empirical sense but feels devoid of any meaning. Narrative, by contrast, is about imbuing a particular sequence of events with thematic meaning. This is why you cannot create dynamic narrative because you cannot create meaningful coherence across the sequence of events if you do not know in advance what the future events will be. This is why every narrative RPG winds up feeling like a CYOA novel. You can only simulate dynamic narrative by planning out multiple narratives and then allowing the player to choose which narrative to proceed with at intersecting moments.
>>735976923>>735977319>trader gnomewhere the FUCK is your half-ogre servant?
There are different types of "roleplaying". People are often talking about different things imo. You may think about them differently, this is just what comes to mind.1. Choices that matter, etc. BG3 and Arcanum have many of these, FO2 has some, Skyrim very little. BG3 has a lot of small dialogue choices although most of them don't matter all that much. You could say that "roleplaying" which silly dialogue options you choose is a separate type.2. Character building (game mechanical) roleplay, including combat and other shit too. They all have this in different ways but Skyrim is quite limited in this imo because the mechanics are shallow and easily overcome by any character. BG3 has many options although the differences in how you move through the game are not big, it's mostly just different shit to do in combat. Arcanum and Fallout 2 are good for this, they have lots of builds and character types that play quite differently, not just in combat but in what else they can do too. Although some of them are bad/janky. Imho this is the greatest type of computer-based "roleplaying".3. Sandbox-based roleplaying. You are your character and make your own story in the world. It helps to engage in head-canon autism. Skyrim is good for this out of those pictured, especially with mods, although personally I prefer its little brother. Arcanum and FO2 also have potential. BG3 is kinda bad for this because there are many things you aren't allowed to do.
>>735978423Got any good examples of #2? Not game, but things the game allow you to do to express yourself? because from understanding, Skyrim should be pretty good at this, no? Like if you want to be a thief, you can fully express that in-game, rather than Thief just being a pickpocket or stealth class.
>>735978994In my view #2 is about serious engagement with the game mechanics. Being a thief in Arcanum or FO2 requires you to commit to being in a serious way, and it lets you do cool shit that non-thief characters couldn't possibly do (it's not that amazing all the time and even in these games such mechanics are often undercooked). There are different ways to make a thief character that are distinct and interesting mechanically. Skyrim has that to a lesser extent, but any thief character is gonna be basically the same in Skyrim. Furthermore a thief character isn't much different from any other character in terms of what it can do in the game, as anyone can unlock doors and steal shit one way or another, and the combat differences are not that interesting. So I would say a large part of being a thief in Skyrim is more like #3 i.e. you can feel like a thief but it's not really that interesting mechanically.
>>735979681being a thief*But I do admit thief mechanics are not that deep in any of these games. My point is overall character builds are more distinct in FO2/arcanum and it's interesting (to me) to think about them and try playing the game with different builds, think about what a build can/can't do, find weird builds or synergies etc. And this extends beyond combat, although it doesn't necessarily have to. That is what I mean by #2. In Skyrim, different builds are not that interesting imo, because accomplishing most things is quite easy for any character. You can easily see all vanilla Skyrim has to offer mechanically with just one character, although another character might be a fresh experience it's mostly in terms of "#3".
>>735978423The thing with 2 is there are a lot of non-RPG genres like strategy, deck builders, roguelikes, MOBAs, etc. that satisfy build autism much better without having to play through a click-and-point adventure with fanfic writing.
>>735963095>balls hurt gay 3>goodi rather flagellate myself playing saarfieldd
Gothic 2
>>735979681>>735980087I get what you're saying now. Yeah, Skyrim is such a freeform game that mechanical/gameplay opportunities are accessible to every character. Players basically have to use an honour system to differentiate their RPs in every playthrough, like playing Warrior and not using restoration magic.
>>735980136I agree to an extent. HOWEVER, the thing with roguelikes is that balance is swept under the RNG carpet. You can't intentionally make the build you want. Ideally #2 is combined with #1 and #3. Then you're really roleplaying. That's what makes Arcanum good despite its flaws, it's one of the few games that combines a good amount of these different aspects of roleplaying and has them interact. Very imperfectly, I admit.
>>735980136strategy and tactics games are better for combat, but crpgs with adventure mechanics are more freeform than adventure games due to build variety. opening a door in an adventure game typically has a single solution, in fallout 2 you can lockpick, find a key, or blow it up depending in build and playstyle
>>735980136You're wrong, none of these satisfy the same urge for character building as RPGs. These other genres are so completely different in appeal that I'm pretty sure you don't understand the appeal of RPG character building at all.
