>>735972328
they're more suited to VR

>>735972328
I miss it. Starwars Galactic Battlegrounds was my jam back in the day.

BECAUSE I DONT PLAY IT HAHAHA

BUT WHY RAP IS SUCH A BIG GENRE THEN? I THINK RAP MUSIC IS INSUFFERABLE

SO IF I DONT PLAY RTS THEN WHY ISNT IR BIGGER HUH?

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>>735972328
This genre is too good for this world

>>735972328
Too intense. Gamers don't want 30 minutes of constant focus with no downtime.

>>735972476
>SO IF I DONT PLAY RTS THEN WHY ISNT IR BIGGER HUH?
You can play a game of a certain genre, but that doesn't make it popular. The world doesn't revolve around you.

>>735972328
same reason baseball is dying
too expensive
too boring
too long

>>735972328
Compfaggotry

>>735972751
Baseball has literally been growing for the past few years for instance the WBC just had a 156% increase in viewers over the last one, retardo

Moba shit killed it, that's how capitalism works, why make something complex, when you can make a moba.

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>>735972328
I personally think it’s because it got pigeonholed as a sweaty tryhard genre when both single-player gigantic army balls and multiplayer custom genre maps were easily the best parts to me

It split into a bunch of different genres.

>>735972884
Rts is not complex

Incredibly high skill floor. It takes a lot of time and effort to get to a baseline amount of skill to make the game even slightly enjoyable. It doesn't appeal to the masses as simple "pick up and put down" games like FPS or MOBAs, though with MOBAs of course you still have to dedicate a bit of time to learning all/most of the characers, items, and each game takes about 20m at least.
>>735972751
>baseball
>too expensive
>too long
What the fuck are you on about? You can go to a baseball game for cheap as fuck, and the games are only at most about 2.5 hours.

>>735972884
>Moba shit killed it,
What a retarded thing to say. It's like saying strategy games aren't popular because of indie games. These are two different genres with different audiences and fans.

>>735972846
>went from 10 viewers to 25 viewers
woweeeee

>>735973002
It was probably a bot to be honest, baseball is the cheapest live event you can attend at a stadium

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>>735972328
What is the point if it already reached perfection.

>>735973002
>It takes a lot of time and effort to get to a baseline amount of skill
Yeah, like....................complete the single player campaign. It takes an absolutely impossible amount of effort to achieve this.

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It didn't

>>735973045
0/10

>>735973083
AoM > AoEII

>>735973045
>says something retarded
>gets called on it
>immediately attempts to downplay
It isnt dying if its growing retard. You are objectively, irrefutably wrong. No ody cares about your fragile ego.

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>see Humble Choice having Tempest Rising
>grab it
>THEN realise it's published by sub-division of My.Games
>Steam board had developers run panic control threads about how they don't collect data on players

You can laugh at me now but I really just wanted some RTS to play.

Wanted to give Age of Empires IV try but I'm afraid of Arxan, unless it's really harmless, unlike Denuvo.

>>735973172
Nah, nothing beats the feel of going from a farmer town to build a castle.

>>735972570
no1 really played dreadlord though.

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>>735973320

>>735972328
It's boring and lame

>>735972328
90's: Relatively few types of games. People played RTS for lack of better options, and the games were well made compared to most.
post 90's: Vidya industry expands. Gamers find their preferred genres and RTS becomes niche as it inherently lacks mainstream appeal.

>>735972328
Micro
>stressful and tiring
>can't enjoy any other aspect of the game and have to focus on it

>>735973960
This has to be the most retarded post of the week.

>>735972751
you utter baffoon it's strategy genres like GSGs and 4Xs that are thriving with millions of dlcs and playtime

>>735974048
>stressful and tiring
I'll never understand what's so stressful about strategy games. It's quite relaxing: you build a city, an army, and then you fight.

>>735974216
>what's so stressful about strategy games
read the first word of that post

>>735972328
Heavy comp focus as the playerbase aged out with an unwillingness to automate the mundane, micro heavy tasks. Ironically, consoles might save rts games since devs will be forced to "fix" the genre when adapting games to a controller.

Play AoE or BAR everyday

>>735974279
>read the first word of that post
OH NO I HAVE TO TAKE THE WOUNDED SOLDIER BACK TO THE BASE I DON'T KNOW HOW I CAN STAND THIS

>>735974384
HAHA SO SILLY

>>735972884
>muh capitalism
>muh assfags are simple despite having all the game mechanics of the father genre(translation: i am bad and got filtered, i only played campaign and turtled in rts too as well)

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>>735974216
Truly, it's an issue of the gamer themselves and their mentality, and not the genre. In fact, this issue isn't exclusive to RTS either. It happens in any game when a player becomes more invested in the end outcome of the experience, rather than the process of the experience itself. It's similar to the mentality of, "Well one day we have to die, therefore life sucks." despite the fact you could have just as easily never been born at all, and even though life has its downs, it has it's ups. But a person who never allows themselves or believes they can enjoy what they're doing unless the outcome is exactly as they imagined, is setting themselves up for disappointment.

The key is to not only lower your expectations, but to have *no* expectations. If you have expectations you are essentially in your mind's eye creating a future which may or may not exist, and now valuing the present based on how it matches that made-up vision made of incomplete information. Versus, if you have no expectations, there is no "future", just the present, and this lets you experience everything in the moment. A person with the correct mentality will view a loss as a learning opportunity to improve, whereas a person who wagers the entire satisfaction on a made-up vision of the future in their head which may not have ever even been possible is setting themselves up for an all-or-nothing scenario.

If you play Rocket League, the fun is in every kick-off, every successful pass, every fake-out. Not whether it resulted in a win or loss.
If you play Counter Strike, the fun is in getting a successful flash+clear, playing map-meta just right to get the jump on somebody, making that clutch reflex decision to swap to an enemy gun to save time on a reload that would've gotten you killed,. Not whether it resulted in a win or loss.

t. Oldfag who has endured multiple gaming burnouts.
Pic related is the RTS I'm looking forward to.

>>735972589
Anxiety sufferers don't like being pressured
People don't actually like having more than 5 buttons to press
People don't see the value in command groups and optimizing
People don't like the idea of build orders and recognizing when to deviate
Experienced players aren't fans of streamlining
Casual players aren't fans of having many options
The average player wants a 20 minute peaceful truce (which is boring)
No one that has a 20 minute peaceful truce want to watch their SimCity burn to the ground
RTS isn't dead imo, the real problem is it's so niche that you can't justify a large budget for it to be financially successful

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>>735972328
>Why did the RTS genre die?
It's too mentally taxing for me. I can play like 2 ranked games in a row before I need a break to calm down.

>>735972328
Koreans got addicted to gacha instead.

>>735972985
I think of current SC2 logic
>I want to build up to 200/200 supply
>Counter argument, what if I hamstring your economy
>Counter argument, what if I hamstring yours
>Modern SC2 is just a balance of checking a check
So it's arguably not complicated, it's just that people look at what's being done at the highest level and get decision anxiety

>>735974906
And you know what anon, that's the correct response. Some players are like, "I have to keep playing until I 'get it' ", and they just end up burning themselves out. You can still become exhausted from doing something you like, and the key to continuing to preserve your love for the things you do, is to give it space and room to breathe when you need it.

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>>735972328
Because this game killed it.

>>735973106
The single player campaign in no way prepares you for even the lowest tier of online play.

I've beaten Broodwar and did all achievements in SC2. Still to scared of playing competitively

>>735972328
glad it's dead. I don't do real time. video game will wait as long as please for me to take my turn.

>>735974939
Speaking of gacha and koreans
There were rumours recently that Nexon managed to get rights for the development of a third party Starcraft game for blizzard, any idea on what it could be?

RTS are awesome
Every doom poster knows this but also have tiny pp and want to be into it but can't
People that know the adrenaline that they produce either just play or ignore these threads and don't post ever

I would encourage people to talk about what they like about them the most instead of childhood shortcomings

>>735975212
You should stick to the chess then, vidya is just not for you, old grandpa

Same as fighting games. People can’t handle losing and also think it’s “too much” effort.

Why learn to micro/macro an entire base and army when you can just play a MOBA or auto battler? I don’t think fighting games got replaced by a genre. They just are niche by design.

>>735975161
Kek yes it does, you overestimate other players

>>735972751
Baseball is the white man's game so of course you don't like it

>>735975390
Moba requires way more micro than RTS though

>>735973172
Yes even though AoM is still one of the most wildly unbalanced games I've ever played

>>735975390
I started playing fighting games not too long ago, maybe 4 years ago, and started in the lowest kind of skill, throwing two hit combos and punches and losing constantly

Didn't take that much effort to realize the meat of them. I was fighting other retards like myself so it wasn't overwhelming as people think it would be, that's why there's a ranked mode

Same as RTS. But the real enjoyment of these is to learn and actually get better yourself, not leveling up power numbers by idling

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What made Micro become such an element of absolute leverage and overall stress in the RTS genre, is that most if not all Micro is rooted in speed, rather than being rooted in good decision making (e.g. strategy). This occurs because of RTS games having the element of instant command response. A typically overlooked element of warfare is command and communication. Let's say, you are the commander, either watching and guiding the encounter via satellite, or in an HQ on the map. Currently in games, all units move as if they are telepathically linked together like a single hive-mind. This is the equivalent to doing flick-shots in an FPS because your character effectively has zero mass and can turn at the speed of light without their limbs flying off every direction. Micro hurts the RTS genre because it is wildly unrealistic to the actual nature of warfare. Micro across the genre would be better balanced by having some inherent delays from relaying the message and units interpreting the commands. You send your message on the comms. Unit in the field takes time to hear the comms, interpret the comms, and confirm the command, and then executes. There should still be SOME degree of Micro, but the issue is in it's original state it is too instantaneously responsive, and favors instantaneous APM rather than forethought to account for command-delay (e.g. strategy). Even though it's not RTS, a Simultaneous-TBS game that gets this right is Combat Mission : Barbarossa to Berlin. Units with radios can execute orders faster than units within range of their commanding officers, and units without either radios or COs take a long time to get issues ordered to them as they're essentially in isolation having to make the next move on their best-guess interpretation of the mission's MO.

Don't get me wrong, I spent many a night up in the AM watching Flash v Jaedong TIDDIE SAMBO KSL and loved seeing them play micro-mind games, but instant-micro totally undermines the need for strategy.

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Threads about the RTS genre are so strange because they always feel like 90% of the thread is canned replies from LLMs that are simulating organic discussion, but you eventually start to notice that every thread has nearly 1:1 the same replies.

>>735972328
too complicated, people have gacha and hero shooters now

>>735975312
A StarCraft gacha obviously

>>735975507
that's bullshit

>>735975758
>most if not all Micro is rooted in speed, rather than being rooted in good decision making
You act like speed and decisionmaking are mutually exclusive
They complement the style being played unc

>>735972328
>/v/ regularly has rts threads hit the bump limit
>only indie devs make attempts with low success
What gives? Why no talented AA/AAA game?

>>735973002
>and the games are only at most about 2.5 hours
>wow only 2.5 hours of nothing happening, what a steal

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The best RTS of all times is alive and well.

It's a pure white man's game as well so it remains unmolested by the brown masses.

>>735975758
>This occurs because of RTS games having the element of instant command response
Wtf recognizing the need to evolve a strategy doesn't require decisionmaking?
>Micro across the genre would be better balanced by having some inherent delays from relaying the message and units interpreting the commands.
Ah yes people like unresponsive games
>Muh realism
I don't strive to be black when I play San Andreas
I'm not disappointed I'm not a 10/10 god when I play doom
Your argument is a giant cope and youre an unfun person

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>>735976079
What about original concepts like Carrier Command 2?

>>735975758
>make everything laggy and slow
>this will save the RTS genre
Either stupid or genius. I say stupid.

>>735975930
>too complicated, people have gacha and hero shooters now
sad but true

>>735972328
when RTS was at their peak, 95% of the people who bought them didnt actually like RTS. they liked building their little city, they liked seeing big massed armies smash into eachother, they liked microing their units around but saw managing workers as the obligation they had to do, they liked the specific story, they liked playing a brand new game made in the games map editor, some people literally just bought these games because they were fast and looked good and those were impressive things in 98

all those people moved to city builders, to 4x, to mobas, only a few people actually like build orders AND having a high apm moving your troops around AND keeping tabs on what the other guy is doing all at once in the very specific RTS way.
also starcraft 2 sucked ass and did all the wrong things trying to cater to RTS fans while still getting the already lost casual RTS market so you have stupid shit like spawn larva where macro is "press this button at your base on cooldown or lose the game 20 minutes from now due to getting money slower causing an enviable loss" because they tried to make a more casual version of the crazy sc1 tricks part of the game on purpose instead of as an accident

>>735976906
> 95% of the people who bought them didnt actually like RTS.
This guy gets it
I had my door open at a dorm once and some foreign student was like "wtf I love custom mapsban big battles" when talking about American conquest
Small escalating Skirmishes are underrated

>>735976906
This guy had trouble spawning larva, just ignore everything he wrote

>>735975758
>Micro hurts the RTS genre because it is wildly unrealistic to the actual nature of warfare.
Can't tell if joking or retarded

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>>735972328
RTS has the same problem fighting games have, especially fighting games that don't have standard controls (for honor eg), just getting to the point where you feel like you can balance on the skateboard is a long trek, most people get filtered if they don't feel like they're "playing the game" in the first hour or 2

then you jump into games and you're spending most of the game thinking about how you actually interface with the game and die horrifically to someone who has like 30 apm but they can ride the skateboard

>>735977048
>if you don't like thing it's because you're bad at thing
yes I saw all these copes when sc2 came out, and for years afterwards as BW started to overtake it in views year after year because it turns out people don't like doing retarded busywork just to play the game. there's no nuance with shit like queen larva, you just press the "I would like more macro" button on cooldown or you lose to the other guy who did. may as well force the players to manually move units 1 step at a time per click

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>>735972328
because it evolved into a 40min build up to a game of rock paper scissors
what was fun about rts games was getting together with the boys and role playing as the factions you were playing and just fucking around then some retarded artistes started taking it super cereal and if you weren't memorizing a bazillion hotkeys and minmaxing every fucking aspect of the game you were literally waiting your time
I will say this until I die, autists and trannies ruin every game they touch

>>735977286
Looool just ignore everything this guy says he’s a fucking retard

>>735975758
The Virgin Starcraft Vs The Chad Kriegspiel

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>>735972901
In retrospect I feel like I’ve never seen most of the actual game types get played

>>735977330
Bronze leaguers were so bad that when I played my friends account I would actually just max army supply banelings or build like 100 command centers and muledrop 300 robots into their mineral line just to like give myself some mild hit of enjoyment.

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>>735972328
It didn't die. People just play SC 1 and 2 and AOE II. This is unfortunate because they're not intuitive (no moving while attacking; minimap clicking; repetitive tasks that artificially inflate APM). SupCom would have vastly more retention and enjoyment if people would learn the game and play the right maps. The momentary storyworth is much more natural and interesting and enjoyable.

Learning everything is still really time requisite, but so is a MOBA.

>>735972905
None of them are as intense and thus entertaining as a good RTS.

>>735972328
They thought people cared about the versus more than customs and campaign and were very wrong.

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An RTS's longevity is in its community custom maps.
If you don't have that there's no point. Actually fighting other players normally in RTS is a formality 99% of players don't care for, and is suicide to build your game around.

>>735976167
I really like it
And it could be the utmost best with just a few tweaks to the MP rules, or more options to make the MP rules to your taste
Also the 40k Indomitus Mod just shows how this would be just better than anything they want DoW to be

>>735977048
SC2 sucks and inject larva/Drops/chronoboost is just busywork and have NO tactical impact
It's not a decision it's just busywork. Should be automated or just erased.

>>735972884
I think the truth is that making a fun RTS where every move feels intuitive and strategic and powerful over the whole 20-60min. match is really hard to do. An example is RPS in AOE II. It's just not fun enough.

>>735973002
MOBAs aren't more "pick up and put down" than a good RTS.

>>735979363
>the best part of RTS games was not playing them
litertally why the genre went extinct. why buy wc3 to play dota if I can just play dota as it's own thing, why buy wc3 to play TD if I can just buy a TD, ect ect

>>735973009
Genres are objectively comparable.

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Whats your favorite strategy anon?

>>735980031
Just because *genre_name* is popular doesn't mean there are less RTS fans. There will always be such people.

>>735974873
I think some people, like me, are just hard coded to do exactly what you described, I consciously am aware of it but fuck me, I can't help it

>>735980185
I mean, imaginably, if MOBAs didn't exist, more people would play RTS.

>>735973083
AOE II < SupCom.

>>735972589
Pretty much this, it’s why games with 20-30 minutes of downtime like Battle Royales and nu-Extraction Shooters are so popular. The average normgroid has about 5 minutes of attention span

>>735973151
>40kslop

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>>735980558
>if MOBAs didn't exist, more people would play RTS.
But why? If people don't like this genre, why should they play it? And if people like this genre, why shouldn't they? I just mean that I personally often have a thirst for the strategy genre. Well, I can't give it up forever.

>>735973960
You're not going to get the shakes as much in most, if not all, other genres. Edge of your seat gameplay is objectively superior.

>>735973083
I'd like a RPG with that scale and art direction. Feels so right.

>>735980718
he's probably talking about the huge esports movement that started with SC2 and moved on to bigger and better things

>>735980046
necrodestroyerwagons against my shitter friends who do not know of mass dispels

>>735975758
People would just queue up dodges and go do something else. It's more fun to learn shot timings and dodge in real time.

>>735972570
>One look at a WC3 screenshot and I immediately get a smile on my face.
Those were some good times.

>>735972328
consoles
skill floor too high

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>>735981942
Even Halo had a strategy game lol

>>735980718
>If people don't like this genre, why should they play it?
Because a good RTS is objectively fun, moreso than most other genres.

>And if people like this genre, why shouldn't they?
Because a different genre is more popular or is perceived as more fun.

All of that is pretty non-sequitur to "genres can be compared objectively".

Anyone have https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_RTYDxoRGh8
It was a video of a certain player using a blood mage to erase trees in order to flame strike someone's gold mine

Here's him acolyte rushing someone else
https://litter.catbox.moe/uzpra9.mp4

>>735981569
At that point though you might as well play a Real-Time Tactics game like World In Conflict, Warno, Broken arrow, which requires no economy aspect. The whole point of Real-Time Strategy, is that the superior Strategy wins. If tactics can beat strategy, it is no longer a strategy game but a tactics game. Simple as.

We need more hybrids or smaller scale. Give us more games such as Pikmin and more strategy rpgs.
>>735972985
Unironically one of the hardest games to code. There's a reason why people getting into game development are told don't make an MMO or a strategy game. Even for a big studio, it could take days or weeks before you have even something remotely playable.

>>735988396
>At that point though you might as well play a Real-Time Tactics game like World In Conflict, Warno, Broken arrow, which requires no economy aspect.
What point? Queuing up commands because there's a time delay or learning dodge micro?

>The whole point of Real-Time Strategy, is that the superior Strategy wins. If tactics can beat strategy, it is no longer a strategy game but a tactics game. Simple as.
Are you really saying micro shouldn't win battles? What's the point in having an air force if you can't circle strafe your opponent?

Strategy vs. tactics is arguing semantics. The strategy is that you're attacking your enemy or winning the battle. Why should you not have skill expression separating skill levels?

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Is this true, /v/? Is this why we'll never get Starcraft III and Warcraft IV?

>>735975758
Interesting take, and funnily enough, starcraft broodwar does have somewhat of a delay on commands because you have to have faith that the archaic pathing will let your strategy play out, so there is inherent delay there. However, if you reduce micro as a factor, you end up with something like the Grand Strategy genre, a la; Sin's of a Solar Empire.

Micro does not matter as much as unit composition and positioning. However, it retains a cult following and does not have mass market appeal.

RTS no matter what requires a lot of forward planning and build order, unit comp, timing, eco management, AND apm. This is why it does not catch on very far in the gaming market. It is a SUPER high barrier to entry for the majority of people.

>>735991203
it's not accurate, even with the most generous estimates

if we do it as cost:return then it's true

it has no longevity. why play anythin beyond a single player when starcraft/warcraft 3 exist?

>>735993174
What are you saying?

Also,
>SC/WC3.
>Anywhere near peak RTS.

>>735983137
>good RTS
they're already playing those 3 games, anon
>is objectively fun
no such thing, retard

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>>735976167

>>735994758
What 3 games?

>No such thing.
People are genetically 99.9% the same. I think it's potentially 100%. We come from the same to cells, with the same mathematical propagation, to the same systems. Optimals exist in the form of adrenergics. Being able to perform while tunneling is extremely skillful.

>>735995105
>from the same to cells
Two*.

>>735973083
AoE2 players killed the franchise by not moving on from such an outdated mid game
AoE4 is the same game and the players still refuse to move on

>>735995320
AoE4 plays better but they certainly did a bad job on the graphics. Everything is so washed up and the FXs are lame, and this comes from a person that plays AoE4 much much more

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Posting some RTS webms i have

>>735995105
>Optimals exist in the form of adrenergics
Oh you're THAT retard. Nevermind then.

>>735974216
reality of what it's really like:

Players spamming keys.
Religiously following construction orders.
Map control is everything.
Most games end before you can do even 50% of what your faction is capable of because early game aggression is favored by the balance team as it prioritizes number of matches over quality.

>>735995612
Lull. Not an argument.

>>735995738
This is *really* cool.

>>735975918
you are mistaking autism for LLMs

>>735975918
>something something internet dead theory

prove you are not a bot

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Sometimes I think of a timeline where Supreme Commander didn't go to shit with 2 and square enix, where Gas Powered Games were allowed to make the cancelled experimentals standalone expansion.

>>735975507
Not distributed over dozens of characters on a shitload of areas across the map. It's focused. Unless you play Meepo, I guess.

>>735975918
That's because the answers aren't going to change over time. They're the same ones and always will be. Scrubs aren't going to start finding what you need to do to play RTS well fun.

rts is an stagnant genre that can only make the same 5 games over and over again

>>735998039
>the same 5 games over and over again
Age of Empires
Starcraft
Total Annihilation
Command and Conquer
Dawn of War

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>>735997035
2's fine. It's arguably as good as FA in a different way.

>>735980046
Blade Shadow grunt raider walker kodo. I’m a simple man.

>>735974216
>It's quite relaxing
Play with Hard IA and you'll get your shit kicked if you don't adapt
Play with competent players and you won't even have a chance to recover if you screw up in a single moment

>>735974216
When you play them half decently you don't have a moment to rest from start to finish. You just have slightly slower points in time.

>>735973437
wasnt there the sleep meme and then ghoul surround

WHO WANTS TO PLAY BROOD WAR OR 2

>>735980046
play random tower rush or fast expand

>>736000031
No I never liked them.

>>736000063
*Farseer Headhunter go brrr*

It didn't. New RTS get made every year.
RTS fell out of the major release spotlight because it's not a genre that really works as a yearly release franchise cashcow and that's what big publishing houses and shareholders want.

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I don't like RTS
I don't want to command all those soldiers to their deaths

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>>736001616
That's why you play Zerg and make a million expendable units
Although I do know what you mean, when I play Protoss and I have a stalker that's been with me since the start of the game, I feel so bad if he dies

>>735972328
Starcraft 2 was made and everyone realized nothing could top it so they stopped

>>736001616
Not all soldiers are actually alive, in some RTS they're just robots

>>735972328
>Why did the RTS genre die?
because blizzard tried to fuck over dota

>>736002146
I remember in TA there was a campaign mission where The Core activated the Pain receptors of ARM units to torture them

>>735972328
>Requires more effort on the players part to learn the game.
>Tests a wider variety of different types of skills than most other games.
and the more things you do to "fix" these things the less the game will appeal to the fanbase of RTS games.
Most people want to pick up a new game and start having fun in like 5 minutes, they dont want to have to learn a bunch of interactions and units and all this info.

I do think RTS could be successful now but i think it would need a good campaign and probably co-op as well, and not focus on e-sports, have it be more ofa party game type game people play for fun.

>>735972328
MOBA became big so all the companies chased that and abandoned the RTS genre

>>735972328
When bw remaster came out. Which is a shame. All the new rts focus too much on trying to be better than bw when in reality, should stay in tune with their design and try new things.

>>735972570
Damn. Now I need to go find my ww3 disc. No way in hell im going to play the botched version with a ugly third world women at the credits.

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they didnt buff handcannoneers

>>736002819
>Requires only APM to spam specific build orders to win by rushing down the enemy.
>No contrary playstyles are effective.
>The games are min-maxed around a few specific troop types and you are only required to know how to spam the right button combinations.
That's what RTS are all about. Only reasons MOBA still survive is because of poorfags who can't afford to game on their own owned hardware so the companies cater to third world/second world internet café users or mobile MOBAs . Not that the game type is any good. Only games that are a bit more action oriented, movement based and not as stale as waiting for cooldowns for every attack make a cut these days. (Paladins/Overwatch/Deadlock.) "Wait To Play" is inherently bad mechanic.

I wish more RTS games had something like the creep or the corruptions like the zerg/undead respectively.
Physically spreading across the map and terraforming it as a show of your area of control is sick.

>>736002819
>>736003985
>/v/ thread
>people clearly don't play yet act as if they're knowledgeable
Many such cases

has anyone else noticed that people in these threads often confuse the meanings of strategy, unit composition, and build orders?

>>736003993
zerospace has a new one
it's grass

>>735972476
This would be a better ironic shitpost if it referenced like instrumental doom metal or baroque classical music or other genres that are basically dead but that have one or two dedicated creators still that have a small but extremely loyal following

>>736004307
This game reminds me of grey goo and I mean that negatively.

>>736004057
>No contrary claim.
Clearly it is you who pretends.
>Never played AoEII back inna day.
>But muh warcraft.
Nerd.

>>735995571
>>735995113
every thread barfags swear their game is the most fun thing ever but every time they actually post gameplay it's just 8 players all one basing and doing what looks like molasses speed a moves across the map.

>>736004367
I've played both and I think zerospace is better, it definitely has things I don't like though

>>735973437
Did Dreadlord have Vampiric Aura?
I remembering one of my old go-to strategies was a mass ghoul/necromancer build that was basically a melee zerg rush. It started with Ghouls and a Dread Lord, then added Necros focused on raising dead (and usually a Dark Ranger as a second hero), with a focus on picking off weak units to raise them as undead to build up a huge tide of forces.
Mid-game added meat wagons for siege damage and corpse storage. Late game added Abominations.

I don't remember how successful it was, but I remember having a ton of fun covering the map with so many ghouls and skeletons that I could just grab a bunch of them and attack-move them across the map to keep enemies distracted while my real army pushed somewhere else.

>>735975758
"warfighter" is the dumbest possible terminology. How did that shit even become a thing?

>>735979363
AoE II is doing fine and if anything, weaned off of custom maps.

>>736003993
Once we figured out how Terran expansions work it also had a very cool effect. Youd basically just treat it like part of your main base, even though it’s so far away. You’d build your production buildings there and also supply depots, because it helped make choke points and made it easier to defend against flanking for like basically no cost. And it all happened in a very rich and panicked way, because you actually just have tons of resources and just want to get everything down and running, it’s not like some boring wall ramp where everything’s placed perfectly then some banelings roll up and it explodes everything. Which was cool in its own right but, the expansion walls really felt like you were forging your way into hostile territory and had to quickly setup your new base of operation. This type of thing wasn’t standard in WoL, people just sucked basically. I actually rewatched some gsl games from WoL and even the pros were like complete shit, which is surprising because you’d expect the skills from brood war would’ve carried over somehow. But they make so many mistakes with everything and it looks like a bronze tier game from today.

>>735972328
it actually requires skill to play and you can't blame anyone but yourself in 1v1s

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>>735972328
Most 'gamers' are retards, RTS requires too much thinking with a very slow trickle of payoff while people just want quick dopamine hits. This is why rogue-likes and bullet hell games are so popular because you're rapidly assaulted with upgrades which makes your brain doot with happiness.

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>>735972328
When the focus went to multiplayer.

>>736004428
You gotta play videogames to understand videogames
Not like you will ever touch any RTS

>>736004904
Screenshot got botched.
https://www.reddit.com/r/RealTimeStrategy/comments/1kuo8o2/multiplayer_is_probably_what_killed_the_rts_genre/

>>736004057
>thats not how i feel therefore its not how most people feel
you are autistic.

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>>736004904

>>736004428
Why would a player make a second base if there are 8 players on the map per team and 8 spots for player bases per map? Why fixate on bases at all? A-move is also wrong, units automatically fire at anything within their range while moving.

>>736004704
Terran bases ended up being more creeplike than the actual creep. We’d just keep floating our buildings down outside our natural to wall off up to our fourth, or build more. It felt so unintuitive at first to build supply depots at just literally random places on my half of the map, and expect it to actually survive, but that’s what would happen. Once I started doing that type of stuff, I went to like a totally new level of comprehension. Like it was meta to build 3 barracks outside your natural in like totally random positions, there’s just not much they could do about it. Youd end up with 20 barracks all over the map because minerals were so cheap for Terran, most of them without any addons because the marine was like the best unit ever and you’d always make more marines. Factories and star ports would always go somewhere inside your huge spread of barracks though as losing those was really hard for your worker guys to rebuild.

>>736004779
>RTS requires too much thinking with a very slow trickle of payoff
RTS's aren't grand strategy games. You really don't have to think that much, just have to be fast.

>>735993006
All good points. The place where it begins to fall apart though is when doing some hyper-micro with units that should lose to the force they're fighting results in a win of the encounter, it essentially is nullifying good planning/composition/strategy in exchange for what's effectively exploiting animation frames and unit pathing. And y'know, if a game intends for that to be an intentional feature then so be it, but the issue is that it is usually more of just an conceptual artefact of game design that everybody just assumes is inherent to RTS because that's the way it's always been done.

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>>736004975
So you're the "more sweat" guy, I've been reading.

>>735972328
rts games split into mobas and rtts

>>736005008
you can "just be fast" and use rote memory to learn a build order but then someone like me comes along with their own build and if you only know rote and dont know why the meta is the meta and how it is suppose to handle that specific thing then you will probably end up raging in chat like artosis does about how people arent playing "the right way" as you lose. I had it happen many times when i played starcraft 2 because i had my own timing attacks and rushes that werent suppose to kill the enemy outright just do some damage while i expanded behind because if i could force an opponent to build that races inefficient units against me i would have a stronger army ball when the final fight came.

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>>736004904
My sweet summer child, player vs player skirmishes is what makes RTS truly fun. After you play against "Ai" enough times you learn it's timings, what it builds every time, how to exploit it, and that's why you eventually get people doing 1 PC vs 7 CPU skirmishes for fun. StarCraft Broodwar and Command & Conquer Tiberian Sun put RTS games on the radar because of their multiplayer. However what made the multiplayer in those fun for their era was that the game balance was derived from the single-player mode. So there were all kinds of little tricks you could learn to use units just a little more effectively, or in ways that the devs hadn't considered, and players from the resources of the game created new emergent gameplay.

Where RTS multiplayer began to fall apart is when it not only became the driver and focus of balance, but when companies after seeing the success of StarCraft's Korean StarCraft League (KSL), wanted to get in on eSports. They wanted to capture that lightning in a bottle, without even fully understanding how it had formed. All they know is they saw "Oh look, multiplayer RTS, lots of players, lots of hype: lots of MONEY!" So then Blizzard fucked up by trying to make StarCraft 2 a "from the ground up eSport game", and as well Electronic Arts fucked up C&C by trying to make C&C 3 Tiberium wars an eSport from the ground up as well, again with no grasp on why their legacy titles were popular or successful.

And this is how you end up with Age of Empires II D.E. having a healthy community with year-round tournaments, with young players still playing SC Broodwars in the KSL, and to a lesser extent the OpenRA Community also hosting C&C tournaments (but they really need to fix using crashing Yaks as a strat, it's fucking dumb just blow them up in the air). It's sad seeing people still trying to hype StarCraft 2 when it was such an afterbirth cash-grab attempt because dummies at Blizzard didn't take KSL's offer to be a sponsor in its infancy.

>>736004904
This is spot on.
The only time I've enjoyed playing an RTS beyond beating the campaign and moving on, or perhaps doing a few challenge maps vs AI, was in those SC2 modes where you team up with other humans, like in a 2v4 against Insane AIs.

PvP is tedious bullshit in any RTS. I don't want to spam hotkeys and jump all over the map. I want to build my bases, compose my armies, then send them out to do their jobs. Turn-Based Strategies end up being as good or better at that than RTS.

>>735972328
Because there's no reason to play the new ones.
RTS is purely mechanics-driven genre, new ones get instantly compared to the classics and found lacking, also when they try something too different people hate it too.

>>736004428
It would help if you understood the game's mechanics. Unlike SC there's no economic incentive to do it, it's a pure strategic move with resource costs. It has its place but that place is not 8v8.

Here, a 1v1 match between top players that involved a forward base that was the game winning decision. Andy was way behind, took his comm and put a vehicle factory and defenses right where his opponent could collapse on it but the terrain was unfavorable, he built the perfect units to counter the attack, xfactor realized he could punch through with bombers because there was no air defense, Andy saw the bombers coming and spot dodged the waves of bombs while sending his forces to snipe the enemy commander and won with less than 20% HP left. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q9DoRYSAwFQ?t=469

>>735972328
Exclusive gaming ecosystems don't exist anymore. Anything new being made must be cross-platform compatible, which leaves out RTS.

>>735973960
I keep saying the same to the AFPS community - your games were coincidentally popular because there was nothing else to play.

>>735974873
Generational shifts are happening, but there was never a time when the majority of gamers had this mindset. 1v1 competition is too scary for most.

>>735972328
Probably the most vulnerable genre to have any fun in it optimized out. 99% of it's playerbase leaves the moment you start getting into 300 APM hotkey builld order shit and that's always inevitably where things end up outside of custom maps and PvE modes.

>>735972640
>The world doesn't revolve around you.
You don't know that.

>>736006089
Arena FPS could have easily kept going alongside other games, you're mistaking tryhard Q3 and QL faggots with the entire community. What killed them wasn't other genres opening up, it was Q4 and UT3 being bad. A genre won't last long if its flagships fuck up as hard as those two did.

>>735972328
It became exclusively esport slop just like first person shooters and fighting games. No fun allowed, gotta be the next StarCraft / LoL.

>>735972751
>baseball bad because there are actual meaningful breaks in the action
>apehoop good
Fuck you you ADHD riddled savage.

>>736004981
>Why would a player make a second base
well in good rts games you don't have enough resources in your starting area to do much so you are forced to expand out onto the map to secure more resources so you can do more things. where's the strategy if you can build your econ without ever leaving your base?

>>736005914
I watched the first game and based on the observer panel the red player was behind in econ the entire game. the 5 o'clock base seemed like it had little economic impact and was mostly just a tard magnet that the blue player tunnel visioned on while the red player a moved his robots into blue's base and killed his commander.

>>736007421
Blue was 5 seconds from winning the game and red's commander was in the forward base. Blue lost because his comm was in the front of the base and exposed, not because he made a strategic error in attacking the base. Red also had to split his units up into 2 rows to not get his attacking force deleted instantly by dgun, you can see one of the rows eat shit.

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>>735972884
Dota and Deadlock are unironically one of the most complex games out there.

>>736008147
I said he tunnel visioned not that going for the snipe with the planes was wrong. either way it doesn't really address my point of not being forced to build econ all over the map.

>>736008326
Base is not economy in TA.
Economic buildings (metal extractors, solars, wind, tidal, fusion, geo) are economy in TA.
If you don't build eco everywhere you can without overextending, you get outcompeted by someone who does. 8v8 is a different metagame where all the easy to take spots are spoken for right away, the ones that aren't are contestable, and you have a dedicated player for economy.

>>735972328
I play aoe2 every single day and I may never stop, its the peak

>>735977735
Team Melee is really fun, multiple people can control one slot and you can pick different races if you want too. Nobody else played shit like Greed, Slaughter or CtF either.

>>735972570
Wc3 is hardly an rts and the beginning of the end

>>735972328
the concept of it morphed into a new genre of mobile games
look up clash royale
i'm not joking

>>736006102
>99% of it's playerbase leaves the moment you start getting into 300 APM hotkey builld order shit
I don't understand why this constantly gets brought up in every strategy game thread. Do you not realize that, as an average player, you're not going to be matched up against no life Koreans that play the game 16 hours a day? You never see FPS players go "Oh shit I can't consistently headshot a guy within 0.2 seconds of him showing up in my vision like the pros can, I guess I can't play the game anymore".

>>736009406
The basics to play an FPS are way the fuck lower than the basics to play an RTS, people avoid arena FPS specifically because of that, and I got matched up against no life smurfing Koreans trying to play BW for the first time.

Let me explain it to you in a way you can understand: they want to play these games at a decent level. Playing these games at a decent level involves doing and learning things inimical to their enjoyment of the game.

>>735972328
Due to technology advancing.
The technical limitations of the past meant it was better than the alternatives, you could go further in RTS using sprites and shitty 3d.
Tech improved and 3d games like action-adventure, action-rpg, fps and so on became more enjoyable with better graphics.
RTS is not improved by better graphics, it's fundamentally the same.
The actual gameplay never had wide appeal, so it withered with time.

>>735973106
I beat the wc3 campaigns then tried a few rounds against ai and got destroyed each time

>>736009572
>trying to play BW for the first time
Unless you did this over 20 years ago, then no shit you ran into high level players, nobody normal plays BW in 202X.

>>736009895
It was 2006 and that's a mark against your point.

>>736009853
Computer upgrades to the point of creating a perfect army that can't be countered. So the longer you wait, the less chance you have. Therefore, you need to act as soon as possible to inflict some damage on him and delay this development algorithm.
1) Create enough peasants to mine gold and timber
2) Create a hero and 5 units (footmen)
3) Start killing green monster camps
4) During this time, build up your army to 12-14 units. In the Alliance example, add more footmen and riflemen.
5) Kill yellow and maybe red camps to level up your hero to 4-5
6) Make upgrades while you killing monster camps
7) By this point you will have a decent army, with a pumped up hero and some upgrades
8) Attack computer

All these things need to be completed as quickly as possible. And don't use esoteric units like Necromancers.

>>735972328
https://youtube.com/watch?v=LzSWdj4izHM

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>>735974216
There are some strange people that try to play as quickly and optimally as possible and then complain that the core game is too easy and boring.
Imagine if a speedrunner made such claims. He would be ridiculed from head to toe.

>>735991203
What was the point of using paint here?

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>>736001168
The vast majority of the most popular games have been out for years.

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Because everybody just wants to make a new Starcraft 2, instead of something fun.

>>735980046
I've only ever played the campaign but I really liked orc shamans. I maxed out thralls farsight first because I like playing for utility instead of damage and I would just send in shamans and grunts with like one kodo beast for the aura and I would bloodlust my grunts and let them kill everything

>>736002025
>As if SC2 has good retention.
It's popular because it's made by Blizzard.

>>735972328
I moved on to RTT, Total War, some other genres or mix of genres, anything but basic RTS back then.
Not that I play much games anymore either way, but I could return to an RTS that was to my liking, but generally they don't interest me for many reasons, and not really specific to genre.

>>735974216
the post you replied to said micro and not strategy games retard

>>735976427
LEAVE THE PEPE ALONE

>>736002865
>As if a lot of studios made MOBAs.

>>735975758
>Even though it's not RTS, a Simultaneous-TBS game
Age of Wonders 1 is like that, if you choose to play it like that (has classical TBS mode too).

>>736003061
What RTS released in the past 20 years try to copy BW? They've mostly been TA likes that just don't have very much depth.

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>>736009853
>>736010302
Simply put, you shouldn't sit back at your base. You need to take active actions to break the computer's algorithm. On picrel, the computer's army is simply annihilated by regular footmen and riflemen. Because there are a decent number of them, they're slightly upgraded, and the hero is also level 3 with lvl2 elementals; a second hero will arrive in time. Meanwhile, the computer only has two heroes, two fiends, and a ton of ghouls. If you play for the Horde, a Blademaster with a couple of Grunts will give the computer no life at all.

RTS games pretend they have a high skill cap, then eventually you realize its just all mechanical skill of having high APM and remembering keybinds and clicking patterns to do macro with your eyes closed

Your strategies dont fucking matter when someone has a speedrun build where they get an exact composition of units at the exact quickest possible time into your base and you simply werent efficient enough to have any chance

>>736008256
Dota and deadlock are assfaggots
Lol and honor of kings are mobas

RTS gamers are like trannys that post their epic webms of flinging their mouse in doom. There hasn't been a good RTS game because RTS is a shit genre

this thread is reminding me to actually give stormgate a try
I really just want to try the campaign though

>>736011492
It just looks so painfully mid.

>>736003985
>As if AOE II or SupCom have high APM requirements.
Also, build orders in SupCom can vastly vary by 5-20mins. Spam vs. tech vs. FOB tech rush. Every engy is not an offensive unit or a building. Every tank is not a bomber.

Rushing is easily countered on most maps because of travel time. You just have to match the number of factories or make some anti-air or rush his FOB.

>>736011412
Pure gameplay focus is more about multiplayer.
RTS can have singleplayer (or perhaps other online modes for PvE) and that can focus more on campaigns, stories, roleplay, aesthetics.

>>736011530
It is painfully mid. It's like all the scrapped ideas that didn't make the cut for Starcraft 2 all condensed into a game that feels forgettable even as you play it.

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because tryhards and muh e-sport bullshit happened went from build shit and try to beat the other player to OH I NEED TO DO 940 ACTIONS PER SECOND TO KEEP MY RATING OPTIMAL SO I CAN DO THE META ARMY AND WIN EVERY MATCH

>>736011530
thats fine, I have no taste and like every genre of video game so I'm pretty sure I'll still enjoy it.

>>736011580
Yep. Your options have to be constrained by environment before they become formulaic and they're still really open in comparison to other RTS because of reclaim. You see it in all the TA style games.

>>736011269
The bullying will continue until he stops being retarded.

>>736004904
>RTS died because games tried to copy SC or because [literally who] RTS failed.
I can't even think of a game I've played that has injects or anything, and Grey Goo isn't the epitome of game design. I didn't play Stormgate.

People inherently want to play vs. real players. It's fantasy-meets-reality. See the huge popularity difference in SP games and PvP games. Is there an argument vs. this?

I feel like people want RTS to do the equivalent of combo for them in a fighting game when people say they don't want APM to matter.

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>Early Wings of Liberty
Take me back...

>>736012256
REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE
NORMALBUGS GET OUT

>>736012452
Yes, and? Not every fighting game should be Marvel.

>>736005139
Dodge micro is essential. Imagine not being able to run out of the radius of a grenade because of some inflated idea of strategy.

>>736009895
>no shit you ran into high level players, nobody normal plays BW in 202X.
So what RTS game can you play in 2026 to play with normal people? Is there any with a sizeable normie playerbase for multiplayer? One where 99% of the multiplayer players aren't 300 APM sweats who've been playing the game for decades?

>>735972328
DOTA killed RTS. DOTA invited in all the casuals who couldnt actually play a real RTS.

>>736012589
>So what RTS game can you play in 2026 to play with normal people?
None of them.

>>736012589
The only way is to play the co-op modes of some.

>>736012812
>implying you will not instantly run into some sperglord who bitches at you for not doing the meta strategy of whatever you're playing

>>736011412
Play FAF.

>>736012589
> >>736013149.

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>>736012347
Exploiting AI is kino.

>>736006286
Every time a new AFPS fails it is always the 'you didn't do it right' excuse. Just accept it already, unless you're a competitive 1v1 sperg then AFPS simply have bad game design and therefore have been overtaken by better games, as early as Counter-Strike in 2000.

>>735973002
>>735972846
it's fucking hilarious how Americans think baseball is worth a damn

the only countries that give a fuck about it are the USA and Japan because they got cucked after WW2 into fetishising Americana, everyone else on earth treats it as a game for children

saying it's "growing" literally means one state in USA has higher viewership than usual, not that en entire other country has decided to adopt it, like football (real football, not "pussies rugby" like you play with all the fucking armour and a 10 minute advert break every time there's a tackle)

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>>736013570
Play SupCom 2.

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>>736008256
>Dota and Deadlock are unironically one of the most complex games out there.
You never played SC/BW or WC3 if you say that, it's pretty easy to tell.
>>735972985
retard
>>735973009
it's true RTS died because people moved to MOBA's same reason arena shooters died because people moved to CoD, hero shooter trash.
>>735974665
You're retarded, I have 6k hours in dota and I can say I was never good in RTS because that's an actual hard genre.

Nobody has made a fun RTS with casual appeal since Red Dragon

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>>736014281
No idea what that is, for me RTS peaked at BFME.

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>>735972328
>Why did the RTS genre die?

Playing RTS on high level is like learning an instrument, all while you have to have perfect macro. Compare that to how braindead mobas are.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RR7CU3CJ7iU

>>736014343
>RTS died because people moved to MOBA's
They have nothing in common besides camera angle and controls

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Zoomers and gen Alpha prefer MOBAs instead.

>>736014698
There are some slower paced RTS games, Starcraft II is much more important with regards to APM.
Insane seeing how some top level players maintained that while keeping track of the game.

>>736015415
>They have nothing in common besides camera angle and controls
Aoen of strife was a costum map in starcraft and dota was a costum map in wc3. Mobas are based on RTS but remove all the skill, now seethe more.

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>>736015579
LoL and Dota just have WC3 hero conviniences(4 skills with one ult, 6 items) otherwise it's literally fucking Diablo.

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>>736015579
>dota was a costum map in wc3
Oh really?

>>736015958
WC3 is "literally diablo". You never played The Founding of Durotar?

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>>736016120
I also played Azeroth Granprix, guess Need For Speed is an RTS now.

You can always host a game for anons here. Surely all those RTS players here will join to play with you, right?

>>735972328
It evolved into the superior genre, mobas.
Same as dinosaurs evolved into birds.

>>736014191
>two of the most important countries in the world with a combined population of 500 million
Better than your third world brown kickball full of faggots

>>736016202
This equivalence makes no sense. Nobody said that MOBAs are RTSs, or that Diablo is an RTS. Also The Founding of Durotar was an actual campaign, not a custom game mode made by fans. Even outside of Durotar, WC3 had HEAVY action RPG elements. Even in the main campaigns you had missions where you didn't build anything and progressed through a dungeon killing enemies with your hero. And in skirmish mode leveling up your hero by killing creeps, collecting items, is also an integral part of the game.

>>736016210
I'd like to play Warcraft 3 with someone. Because I've always stopped myself from playing on Garena, but now it's too late.

>>736017109
>you didn't build anything and progressed through a dungeon killing enemies with your hero.
It was even before in the RA2 and TibSun. OMG TibSun invented DotA

Fa/tg/uy here, im just excited for the starcraft tabletop game coming out really soon. They mentioned 10 years of content releases also army building seems to be very reminiscent of coop commander where your leader changes a big of how your army plays.

Can't wait to make a stukov led infested army

>>736017109
And Warcraft 3 is an outlier in the RTS genre, as is Spellforce. Take any other popular RTS, say CnC or AoE, the similarities vanish.

>>736011412
shutup moron. too much esport slop has rotted your brain.

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>>736011469
>because RTS is a shit genre
It's actially the best genre. Only here you could see a war between gold elephants, half-eagle warriors, half-scorpion warriors, one gold beatle and a couple of egyptian and greek folx. Oh also Guardian of Ra is on the battlefield and this mf is no joke. Damn I LOVE RTS

>>736017628
The point is that MOBAs did siphon their playerbase from the RTS genre. Players bought WC3 because it's an RTS, then got roped into DotA by playing on custom servers. And that DotA wasn't nearly as dissimilar from WC3 proper as that anon implied.

>>736014191
>"pussies rugby"
gridiron and rugby are two different sports idiot. rugby is a contact sport the other is an impact sport. you wouldnt survive the kind of shots given in grid iron without armor. rugby uses more wrap around tackles as opposed to full on collision if you want to go home with your brains intact.

>>736018060
>The point is that MOBAs did siphon their playerbase from the RTS genre. Players bought WC3 because it's an RTS, then got roped into DotA by playing on custom servers.
pretty much and everybody who doesn't agree with this is retarded and didn't play wc3/tft.

>>736018060
>custom maps

>>736018060
I'd argue that WC3 custom maps go further still from the core gameplay. Like 90% of them were essentially minigames or mockups of other genres, and people who played these likely had no interest in traditional RTS to being with.

>>736017204
Except all the other things I mentioned apart from the one thing you cherry picked weren't in those games. And what is even your argument anymore? This posts comes off more like some thinly veiled way to show off your taste and senior knowledge in RTS games than an attempt to make a serious argument. In other words, you aren't actually engaging with the topic at hand, and are instead more concerned with presenting yourself in a certain way.

>>736018449
>and people who played these likely had no interest in traditional RTS to being with.
absolute not true most people played normal WC3, but at one point dota was like 90% of the costum games lobby. It was like literally cancer cells.

>>736018449
>people who played these likely had no interest in traditional RTS to being with.
They're playing a fucking RTS game, of course they had interest in it, they at least liked the campaign. It's a pretty far leap to dislike RTS games but be playing custom games in an RTS game.

>>735977330
>because it evolved into a 40min build up to
This never existed
>what was fun about rts games was getting together with the boys and role playing as the factions
yes it was fun being 9 years old, but that isn't what RTS is as a game genre and never was

Wc3 custom maps how I miss thee.

>pyramid escape
>escape gay space
>cat v mouse
>Footman wars
>wintermaul wars
>island defense
>missile wars
>run kitty run
>angel arena
>hero defense

>>736014191
Holy ESL, no baseball is growing globally

>>736004539
My guess is it went something like this:
"Soldiers"
>muh marines
"Servicemen"
>muh PMCs
"Warfighters"

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>>735972328
Starcraft 2 didn't have enough protoss ladies.

>>735985520
>let's start fighting the mega unit while 80% of the rest of the army isn't here yet
This is the kind of stupidity fake RTS "fans" want? Go play with legos please.

>>736018816
WC 3 campaign is basically a semi RPG and its melee mode is just a lesser version of that campaign, meanwhile the custom games are games as in the original meaning of the word game.

>>736019616
>are games as in the original meaning of the word game
with the exception of dota, which was a distilled and purified RPG aspect of WC3 without any of the RTS elements
turns out people wanted to play games and RPGs, not RTS

>>736019779
>without any of the rts elements
Chen, Meepo, Beastmaster and Lycan at the time are more micro intense than a regular game of 1v1 w3 melee
t. 2k mmr in w3champions

>>736018816
It's not at all. I don't enjoy base WC3. Never have. I've always thought it was an ugly as fuck game with retarded writing and never found the game enjoyable. Thankfully custom games existed.

>>736020173
What's the point of lying like this? Nobody is going to take you seriously, especially when micro isn't even the topic of conversation

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>>736022206
>I've always thought it was an ugly as fuck game with retarded writing and never found the game enjoyable
>this your average doturd player
acquire some taste, miserable simulator player.

>>736022616
I got it to play random shit with my friends, not DotA. Like Revenge of the Niggers.

>>735972846
>for instance the WBC just had a 156% increase in viewers over the last one
Probably people typoing while looking for something else.

>>735972846
One Outs made me like baseball a little bit.

>>735972328
can something die that was never alive to begin with?

>>735972328
>die
Define "die"
RTS is about as dead as colony builders or grand strategy games to name very close examples or as dead as immersive sims or adventure RPGs to name very different ones
Which is to say it isn't dead at all, there's just no AAA studio commercial successes
Which is a good thing btw, I don't want AAAfags stinking up my genre

What's the point of these threads? Nobody talks about the actual games and it's just coping about how they are bad at them

>>736024343
>RTS is about as dead as colony builders or grand strategy games to name very close examples
I'm pretty sure grand strategy is more alive.

>>736024537
Sure, if you consider two AA companies slopping out a new DLC every few months "alive".

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>>735972328
I can't name a single RTS that has released in the past 5 years with a healthy playerbase, it's always some 30 year old age of empire shit filled with veterans

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>>735975758
>A typically overlooked element of warfare is command and communication. Let's say, you are the commander, either watching and guiding the encounter via satellite, or in an HQ on the map. Currently in games, all units move as if they are telepathically linked together like a single hive-mind. This is the equivalent to doing flick-shots in an FPS because your character effectively has zero mass and can turn at the speed of light without their limbs flying off every direction. Micro hurts the RTS genre because it is wildly unrealistic to the actual nature of warfare.
Sounds like a skill issue if you can't control your soldiers like in an RTS

>>735972328
Marijuana. Rts isn't cozy to play high at all. Even the campaigns just become frustrating unless you play on easy.

>>736005139
>>736012553
As this guy points out, not being able to retreat does definitely hinder the game because then engagements will come down with who has the better unit composition, and bam, the game is over.

Funnily enough, starcraft 2 has BOTH problems BOTH of you bring up.

Marine and murauder micro is the bane of all protoss players because it is so exploitable with animation cancelling and smooth as butter pathing which completely annihilates the protoss death ball.

But, when micro is reduced, for example in the original starcraft 2 wings of liberty, Protoss will just death ball, and if their big ball of death does not win, then they just immediately gg, even if they were up on bases.

There has to be a sweet spot somewhere with this genre, but it is very difficult to find since RTS is such a broad idea/genre.

I see it as akin to the horror genre since there are so many different takes, flavors, and ideas, there is no hard set standard on what makes a GREAT horror game.

MY LIFE FOR AIUR

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That game was so ahead of its time, the story the gameplay everything. Every time their logo popped up in a game you knew it was the best shit ever. It's like From Software now.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j1BZtg8OyIo

Such a shame EA raped Westwood.

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>>736028967
>My wife for hire!

>>735973002
>and the games are only at most about 2.5 hours.
1.5 hour longer than most other sportsballs.

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>>736029376
Why the fuck do protoss women have tits?

>>736029195
EA made generals FAGGOT

>>735974881
>Anxiety sufferers don't like being pressured
I get body trembles playing competitive fps games but I still like them

>>736029489
>go to handegg game
>players line up, ball gets thrown, 30 sweaty negros slam into each other, ball moves two yards, timer is paused for two minutes while the lines are set up again
>john madden wannabes will try to tell you that there's actually a lot of depth to having massively inflated team sizes for no reason other than getting more people slamming into each other
>repeat ad nauseum for 4 hours

>go to hoopape game
>players run from one side of the court to the other, stand there for 20 seconds, one person lines up a three point shot, then the opposing team takes the ball as all the players walk back to the other side of the court, might as well just be two nets next to each other
>except the meta is also about intentionally forcing fouls more than playing the game, perhaps the only sportsball game where you can and will receive penalties for standing still and having someone slam into you because you were "blocking" or reactively grabbed to hold on to him so you don't crack your head on the court
>games take 3 hours because of all the penalty shots and time outs

>>736008748
that's what I was getting at. in rts games where you have to build another base to expand your econ there's a lot of strategy involved because each base is a big investment. you have to make the command center/refinery/whatever and then a bunch of harvester units. it can cost as much as 20+ fighting units which you still need to protect it since it's now out on the map somewhere instead of in your main base. expansion timing and denying your opponent's expansions is a huge part of the game. in ta-likes your metal economy is way lower investment since you just have to build the extractor, and power economy can mostly be built anywhere. it's not like starcraft where a 3rd gas is make or break for a zerg player and denying the 3rd base is basically game over.

>>735972328
RTT plays better, turns out people think base building is gay

>>735972328
started focusing too much on multiplayer and it's a genre that really only works on pc

>>736031170
>RTT plays better,
Nope, it's gay

>>736028967
Entaro adun

>>736030002
It is very weird isn’t it? If i remeber the lore right, they feed off of sunlight, so why would their children need milk? Protoss don’t have mouths.

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>>736031613
The protoss have no orifices at all at least according to the lore book that came with the special edition of legacy of the void.

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>>736031420
For me it is "Adun Toridas"

>>736031613
How protoss sex is look like?

>>736030439
Have you ever played basketball? Extreme cardio.