How exactly are they the bad guys anyway? Wanting to get rid of all the barbaric mutants, and to restore humanity back into existing under a nation with laws and justice and civilisation? Unironically how is this evil?>inb4 "you didn't play the game! they want to get rid of the unpure people!!"again explain to me how or why this is wrong? when you've been nuked back into the stone age, where do you base your moral compass?
>>736068523Their concept of "mutant that must be purged" is "literally everyone remaining on the surface of the earth"
>>736068571The people born into the enclave who don't have all the impurities of living tribal lifestyles in the radioactive wasteland will make sure humanity can recover from all the diseases and shit without the entire earth being contaminated, so this is a good thing.
>>736068523Brcsuse they were responsible for the nukes in the first place, the wasteland was the experiment
>>736068630>Brcsuse they were responsible for the nukes in the first placeThey were winning the war in china and china in response nuked everyone, they couldn't of forseen that realistically.
>>736068523>How exactly are they the bad guys anyway? Wanting to get rid of all the barbaric mutantsanon you would be first in line for the barbaric mutant removing
>>736068709>b-b-b-but they would of killed you first!!!and? so what? i'm not a selfish retard, if it meant the future generations got to live in a civilised world again then so be it.
>>736068523They're in the wrong because they're threatening your family and literally every single person you've met.
>>736068762>They're in the wrong because they're threatening your family and literally every single person you've met.Every person you encounter when traveling to find the GECK is trying to murder you for fuck all reason except they feel like it, this is just savagery the world has been put into and can easily be eradicated.
>>736068523They're a vestige of the old world. It's very obvious on the oil rig (where most players check out mentally because the game is so boring and dry by that point, so they miss it). They're just operating on paycheck, and it's only comfort and obsessive servants like Horrigan that keeps it running. They weren't accomplishing anything qualified with their eradication plans, they're just a mill set to repeat the end of the world
>>736068523>when you've been nuked back into the stone age, where do you base your moral compass?Not on the very people who helped create the problem in the first place.
>>736068795You're blatantly ignoring everyone else who is decent and trying to make something new or just trying to survive. You can't tell me you really want to gas someone like Harold, or Tandi.
>>736069024Obviously not, but what if you were the one who had to pioneer the best future for the world, and this was the cost? I think one thing the enclave president said is correct, that you have to be the one to make all the tough decisions.
>>736068523It just boils down into US vs THEM and might makes right. So whoever is the strongest is the one who is correct in this scenario and since they were btfo they were wrong. >inb4 they were just looking out for their ownSo was the Chosen One>inb4 but they are mutantsHave you met Frank Horrigan?
>>736069337Technically frank horrigan was just a means to an end, a piece of overtly loyal muscle that could be exploited even if it is indeed a blatant hypocrisy.>So was the Chosen Onehe was fucking the enclave over at Navaroo, the Enclave was justified in its response to protect its assets.
>>736069412And they failed thus showing their might was not enough.
>>736069315No, they're fucking insane sociopaths. They're literally just afraid that someone else might rebuild the world instead of them, the "mutant" framing is just propaganda, since you know, human beings are just human beings and like the other anon said its a way to frame an "us vs them" tribalism (heh) kinda beat.Anyways, they're just mad that they're not in total control so they'd rather kill everyone else on Earth rather than get over having to play nice, and they got btfo for it.
>>736069604>And they failed thus showing their might was not enough.even in history, many of the good guys lost. Might makes right unless its your team losing to the might, after all.>>736069639>the "mutant" framing is just propaganda, since you know, human beings are just human beings and like the other anon said its a way to frame an "us vs them" tribalism (heh) kinda beat.Mutants are nowhere near human-like anymore, they're basically deformed orc brutes with any lack of critical thinking and even the rare few intelligent mutants were psychopaths who thought the master's batshit insane "turn everyone into an orc" policy would fix the worlds problems
>>736068523> nation with laws and justice and civilisationThats not actually a real thing. Thats why the laws don’t favor the people, because it’s literally just a more clever scam. It really pulls at your heartstrings though theyre pretty good at talking. Youll be like “but male sacrifice is the only way dude a good portion of the men have to be sacrificed or else the rest of the men will die too dude”. Yeah lol and if the lower group disagrees it’s illegal.
They’re not just bad they’re also retarded, what purpose would it serve to kill all humans except for like 100 and a lot are old as fuck
>>736068523>hurr why are these guys who are directly hostile and antagonistic to the player and player's people the bad guys?!Kill yourself. Fallout 2 is the worst Fallout game just on the fact it introduced the two shittiest factions in the whole series: The Enclave and NCR.
>>736069718They classify the average wastelander human as a mutant, not just super mutants or ghouls
>>736068523Because the the new commie republic is the good guys remember
>>736070006You cannot genuinely say that when fallout 4 exists. And fallout 4 will continue being the worst fallout game until 5 releases
>>736070006>mindless insults and console-patriotism tier memefallout show tourist, go back
>>736068630>tv show retcon
>>736069718>even in history, many of the good guys lostGood and evil don't matter, only might.> Might makes right unless its your team losing to the might, after allLosers don't matter they're dead.
>>736070265Its not really a retcon. The games just said the details were trivial and pointless, the show gives us details, but fo1 made it clear the Chinese did launch first because the FEV spooked them. So it's all a wash, enclave had a major hand in it all
>>736070284Good losers matter because Bad winners make everything worse for everybody else, no matter how philosophical you want to get this is objectively true.
>>736068523Their premise is retarded.At least with Master you can see how somebody could come to those conclusions. He is just a sci fi globohomo version.Enclave? Supposedly spooks of pre war US, but so far removed that their ideology would have shifted, and they want to genocide all humans on mainland because muh radiation supposed mutations (that we don't see in games).It's just silly premise. I sort of get what ideology they are depicting, but they bungled it overall.
>>736070484>but they bungled it overall.It was done intentionally my friend, at least with the master they made him well spoken and intelligent enough to seem rational to a point the player may side with him, but the enclave are the stereotypical evil faction that were written intentionally for you to hate, I like to look beyond that scope.
>>736070484The enclave were intentionally made the way they are.
Part of the problem with trying to wipe out all the mutants is that it'll never end. FEV is airborne and part of the enviroment now after the bombs blew it into the atmosphere.Its not the radiation thats making mutants, its the FEV
>>736070634>>736070570I guess it fits with Fallout 2 being less serious and pop culture references and tropes filled cringe fest.
>>736070359>So it's all a wash, enclave had a major hand in it allThis quite literally makes no sense other than making the enclave out to be the big bads of the entire setting for no reason. Why would the united states government nuke the world? The show also makes out the sneedclave to be pre-war shadow niggas too for no reason.
>>736068709>anon you would be first in line for the barbaric mutant removing>b-b-b-bbububut they would have killed me first...,, i mean you firstPOINT PROVEN. If you are so selfish that is your only concern, the enclave were 100% in the right
>>736070702Their whole plan was so half-baked it only takes a few stern arguments to turn their lead scientists against their own lifetime of work. That's not really shocking. They were an existential threat because of their technology and complete lack of competing pressure. Pretty effective ripdown of Enclave-like real world parellels.Fo2 had miner town frontier sherrif governance, rival gang family governance, beaurocratics with slavery, outright lawlesssness, tribal governance, republic governance(with corruption), AI overlord governance, hubologist wackjobs, hippie vagrantsThe enclave was a good capstone after all that
>>736070901The old us government was big bads in fo1 too, the reaction to them is literally what made the BoS become a thing
>>736068523Restoring civilisation is what the NCR and Maxson's Brotherhood want to do. The Enclave are just genocidal fascists whose definition of ''mutant'' is based on nothing but vibes. That they got BTFO by a literal tribal proves their worldview is bullshit.
>>736068523>if you claim everybody but you is human, you are inhuman.It was a question of ensuring the survival of humanity from a hostile invasive species. It's not a question of morality, simply survival.
>>736071063The BoS wants to avoid the mistakes of the past that lead to the wasteland by preventing technology from falling into the wrong hands, the entire faction is just one of the different responses of how humanity should move forward and prevent repeating the mistakes that lead to global societal reset, The Master and the Enclave were the same up until the show made the Enclave pre-war shadow niggas
>>736069315>that you have to be the one to make all the tough decisions.Okay, now [Speech 100] kill yourself.
>>736068523>How exactly are they the bad guys anyway?They want to kill me>Wanting to get rid of all the barbaric mutants, and to restore humanity back into existing under a nation with laws and justice and civilisation?i am one of their "barbarians" to get rid off>Unironically how is this evil?killing me is the greatest possible evil>again explain to me how or why this is wrong?If your plan involves my death, its irrelevant how good your plan it. Im going to fuck you up.>when you've been nuked back into the stone age, where do you base your moral compass?My moral compass is based around my continued existance
>>736068523>immediately opens fire on innocent civilians and kidnaps them Jeez I wonder why
>>736070453They don’t since they can’t do shit because they’re dead. A dead man cannot do anything good or bad, the world is at the mercy of those who remain.
>>736071341they were not the same, you can't be an edgy contrarian about the show if you dont' know the lore to begin with
>>736072094>edgy contrarianOkay Todd.
>>736068627not enough of them left to ensure stable population and avoid long term inbreeding, Vaults are ticking timebombsKeep in mind that Enclave also does not want to remain "pure" Human, FEV research was done to combat any viral warfare by making it obsolete(never finished the project because everyone nuked each other), Jolly Green Giants were uninteded byproductsin that sense old Enclave is making a big gamble
>>736072094tv show fucking sucks and is non canon it tramples over the lore and is 1 dimensional like every other shitty bethesda fallout
>>736068523why are they just gunning down the vault dwellers in the intro? aren't they supposed to abduct them? non-mutated humans are fucking had to come by.
>>736068523>pulls an image from a cinematic where they slaughter a civilian family in come blood
>>736072094Lynch showfags, they're the worst kind of secondaries
>>736073254It's not canon and it was cool, hell even the cover art was kind of forced to be the enclave even though the original vision was it to be the chosen one wearing a tribal marked helmet.
>>736068523>again explain to me how or why this is wrong? when you've been nuked back into the stone age, where do you base your moral compass?A Fallout thread died to sate your retardation.
>>736073984>A Fallout thread died to sate your retardation.Good, enjoy more to come faggot.
Was everyone on the Oil Rig cousins considering originally there were 50 people when the bombs fell?
>>736070006I love this image so much
>>736068853Exactly they're hardly productive and effectively fixate on just perpetuating their culturally insular and mindless militaristic-bureaucratic organization. They're essentially a more ruthless version of the Brotherhood but they share the same endemic issues
