How can we evolve society to understand RTS games?
Society is meant to devolve, not evolve. The only reason to build a civilization is for the pleasure of tearing it down.
by giving everyone enough leisure time to learn them again
>>736099117They’re like MOBAs or Extraction shooters where 90% of them are garbage shit doody asshole poop water.
>>736099117>but only single playerit's the same issue everyone has with fighting games, these games never have good match making so you end up playing against some smelly grognard who has been playing this shit since the mid 90s and you don't get to have any fun and the gameplay is too fast to be fun.
>>736099117esports focus is what killed RTS. people liked Starcraft for the campaign, not for ladder. >but koreansIf they had pivoted to coop earlier they could have maybe saved SC2 still but it was too little too late.
>>736099117>I just want to build my dudes for an hour and then stomp the AIYes.
>>736099186Nigga 80% of people who played Starcraft 2 barely knew anything. Same applies to every competitive rts
low elo legends > pros
>>736099238Have you tried YOMI Hustle?
>>736099117People like what they like. I like singleplayer RTS because it's chill and I don't want to be on someone's timeline. I want to save and pause whenever I want. I played RTS at a time when there was dial up and I rarely played multiplayer. I remember learning star craft 2 and trying to get into ladder during wings of liberty and watching day9 to learn on justintv or whatever. Bro I don't want to play piano. I want to put my feet up and click. Hotkey only minimum tasks. But now singleplayer mode is treated like optional DLC with live service bullshit at the front. Microsoft has milked AOE2 to death but at least they give you singleplayer campaigns still. AOE4 was dogshit though. The whole reason why MOBA is popular as a genre is because you only have to remember a few hotkeys and control one unit. People don't like to have to micro manage a bunch of stuff. You can never get to the tactics because you have to put so much dedication to even figure out what keys to press.
>>736099117most people can't read past a fifth grade level and you want them to play RTS?
>>736099373never heard of it
>>736099582I can read and write better than any gook playing RTS e-sports. I just don't want to tediously mash the keyboard and be rushed.
>>736099117Few would understand.
>>736099527you dont need high APM to reach decent ranks in SC2. Stop huffing that copium
>>736099117Warcraft funHalo wars 1 funRest boring
>>736099724But I don't enjoy playing multiplayer with people... it's yall that are coping expecting people to enjoy something that they simply don't. Then you mock all RTS if they don't cater to your esports.
If we are going to be inundated with AI advancements at least we could have some really good singleplayer AI to play in RTS
>>736099117Unit abilities were the worst thing to happen to RTS games.
>>736099254The absolute most I'll see people actually talking about pvp is when there is a big Starcraft, or AoE2 tournament on, and someone will mention a couple player names, and that's about it.Meanwhile we'll have threads that his the post cap with nothing but quotes from the units because that's the shit people actually enjoyed.
>>736099632Have you heard of it now?
>>736099117why the fuck can't RTS games do both? why can't they be expected to have a fun engaging single player campaign while also having a great multiplayer scene? Warcraft, Starcraft, CNC all these had both why is it suddenly now that there's only room for one or the other?
>>736099283based
>>736099117RTS only functions in VR
For me, whenever i won at rts games, i didn't get like i outthought the enemy, i mean, i had better micro, but i felt that was just reaction time, (tea helps) i out eco'd him, but that was just map knowledge and knowing what to build, when to build. I gravitated towards 4x space games, but none fulfill what i'm looking for. If i can react my way out of a clusterfuck, then i havn't outthought my opponent as such.Mobas took the micro element and removed the base building stuff, other games took the base building stuff, and removed all combat. I guess what i[m trying to say is that i never out thought in stages, the more complex the stages, the more i feel like i'm outthinking my enemy, if he does something, and i react to it, that's reaction time/game knowledge, that's like 1 or even two stages of thinking, but if my enemy does something, and then he reacts to it, but then i predicted his reaction, so counter it, but then he predicted my reaction to his reaction....etc etc, you see what i;m getting as. The pace of the game is a factor, if its fast paced, you won't have time to build those stages if you get what i'm saying?Rts just felt kinda shallow, supcom was a little better, felt like T2 stuff was not used as much though, i liked those aeon tanks in the T2 fac, also i don't feel supcom made proper use of terrain elevation, and really pushed it, so like kbots would excel climbing a hill, and so on.
RTS games are ass.The only reason they ever got popular is because they could take advantage of shitty graphics better than other genres.I have massive nostalgia for WC3:TFT, but I know for a fact it wasn't because I liked the gameplay. I had to cheat my way to seeing the ending.
>>736099708kek
>>736099238Street Fighter and Tekken ELO matching is just about as fair as it gets once you have like 5-10 matches under your belt for the CPU to know where to slot you in.
>>736099582Most high level RTS players are illiterate savants.
>>736102616I highly doubt there are enough players that it works right and isn't smurfed to death
>>73610282540k/day is enough to run a proper ELO pyramid. Smurfing of course is unavoidable, but the % of players that smurf is never really that substantial. At worst you'll get fucked by a smurf once every few days if you play constantly.
>>736100071Nope.
>>736102983Accidentally my image
>>736099708>strikes fear into medium AIs
>>736099171Not just society, but absolutely everything, hence the concept of fall from heaven and the endless complaints about the world going to shit since ancient times. Whenever we speak about progress, we speak of degradation.
>>736099708gookclickers BTFO
>>736099117What if I want a good singleplayer campaign to start off with, before I challenge the AI in increasingly difficult battles, but without any of the bullshit cheese or rushes you get in PvP? What if I like getting sweaty, but only when I get to choose the rules? What then, huh?
>>736099708And the one on the right is what made RTS's popular in the first place. Whenever a genre other than FPS/ASSFAGGOTS gets hijacked by PVPfags, it's immediately doomed into obscurity.
>>736099789>i only enjoy playing against opponents that are literally braindead
>>736099984this. it caters to high apm pro players to express their skill but in most cases are unnecessary micro bloat for causal playerswhy not add pre game scripting for certain abilities like casting heal when units are low? it would level the field that's the opposite of what ((they)) want
>>736104213AI is challenging enough for me... when I get bored I stop playing for a year or two
>>736099708I kneel king.
>>736104213You say that as if 99% of all games aren't against AI opponents
Racers were fun before net play because u would mostly play them alone>u need to win to enjoy a game?Not everyone wanna sweat when playing vg
>>736099117My favorite RTS is Pikmin
>>736104389>99% of all players eat shit>why don't you partake too>*glomp* *glomp* *glomp*
>>736099117RTS games are unpopular because they are *correctly* understood to be boring.
>>736099708I miss this meme before normalfags got ahold of it and turned it into 'thing i hate' vs 'thing i like'.
>>736099117>Make good popular game>I want muh hardcore competitive game!>Make next game for tryhards only>Studio dies because noone buys it except for cheap ass tryhards >Why is noone playing muh hardcore competitive game, fucking normiesAt least the FGC keep their genre semi alive by doing tournaments for old games, RTS tards just bitch about their dead genre on 4chan
>>736102983>>736103179I highly doubt that's true. I remember a lot of smurfs in injustice 1 and 2
>>736099708I never understood the feeling of always getting beat down in PvP or at best, getting 50% chance of being beat down. You must be a masocist to enjoy the pvp elements right? A self hating addiction
>>736099117This is me unironically
>>736099117This board is just groundhog day
>>736104389Most games have simpler mechanics that CPUs can handle better.
>>736105107Some people are just competitive. Competition is fun, knowing you're better than another human out there is way more satisfying than beating a computer.
>>736099117Stop posting this pic. I always think it's a tiramisu.
RTS as a genre is simply trying to be too many things at once, trying to appeal to too many different audiences at once, and that's why it has largely died out.People who just want a comfy basebuilding simulator moved on to city builders and survival craftathons.People who want a micro clickfest managing individual battles moved on to MOBAs.People who want a strategy game without the APM requirements moved on to turn based strategy/RTWP strategy.The audience that remains consists mostly of sweaty Koreans who have been playing Brood War since '98. There's simply no realistic way for anyone to enter that community if they weren't already a part of it from the start; it's basically the problem >>736099238 points out.
>>736105452kek i too thought it was some kind of tasty minecraft block
>>736099117>nooo you can't just enjoy rts campaignsI will
>>736100180Old devs tried to make something cool with what little they had, so they squeezed all they could out of limited resources.New devs tried too hard to perfect the existing formula and hardly ever bothered trying something new, and ended up with same stale shit everyone has seen already but now with more flashing lights.
We've had this fucking thread a 100 times by now. There has to be another way to start an RTS game discussion.
there are so many people even on /v/ who seem to not understand the difference between strategy and unit composition. I see posts all the time saying shit like>my favorite strategy is air units
Reminder that this excellent campaign RTS came out and got excellent reviews and nobody bought it anywaysBecause campaigniggers don't buy or play videogames but surely love to complain
>>736105860>reviewsDo people still pay attention to reviews?
>>736105951there are user reviews anon
>>736104452Why are you on /v/ if you don't like ga- oh wait, dumb question, my bad
>>73610598478% on Steam is excellent to you?
>>736105860dont care for desert settings
>>736105820It’s actually more like the game has stages and you can’t just go air units right away or else everyone would. Everyone wants to go air units these days, ground units aren’t as cool. Look at the carrier, it actually has an infinite number of units inside it. The marine also does too but there’s no girl marines.
>>736105107It didn't always used to be that way, forced 50/50 win/loss is a modern matchmaking concept. They try to hide it by pretending it's just ELO, but it's actually an engagement optimization algorithm. That shit didn't exist back when we were playing AoE2 over fucking Hamachi.
>>736106507>fair matches make you more likely to stick aroundtruly, such evil should not exist
Multiplayer?Yes of course, me and my 2 buddies vs Medium Computer
>>736106775based
>why don't they ruin this now niche genre to have mass appeal againthat's what you're asking for?
>>736106775This, but it's me and 7 randoms versus a team of brutal AI.
>>736106245it doesn't matter because "making x unit" isn't a strategy. "use air units to cripple my opponent's mid-game economy so he can't afford the tech to stop my ground attack" is a strategy. "use air units to force my opponent to overinvest in anti-air and then wipe him out with ground units" is a strategy. blindly making one type of unit without any plan isn't a strategy.
>>736106775my n word
>>736106646>forced win/loss ratios are "fair"That's not really what fair means to me, when an algorithm decides before you even start the game that you're going to lose, and architects your loss by selecting opponents significantly better than you, it feels like the opposite of fair. Matchmaking like this rarely results in a good balanced match and usually one player completely stomps the other player and neither learns anything new from the experience. All the matchmaking does is flip flop which player gets to effortlessly stomp that match as it oscillates around the 50/50 point.
actually it's blizzard and koreans that don't understand the BASED & TRVE appeal of rts
>>736107461Blizz understood well enough to make SC2 campaign into its own thing separate from scrimish games. The problem is the company has been rotting from the inside since being consumed by Activision.
>>736107461say what you will but I did enjoy SC2 campaign>cool characters>unlockable tech and mission bonuses that carry over>missions tailored to test out your new toyszerg was bit of stinker but Protoss campaign was genuinely great
korean society understood RTS games more than anybody else (not an exaggeration) and decided MOBAs were a superior gameface it, it's fucking over
>>736102616Tekken's MM is notoriously dogshit and funnels players into high ranks because the devs think a shiny PNG will make up for losing the majority of their matches. SF6 has a similar problem for new players but at least has actual elo when you hit master rank.
>>736105107Losing can be fun if you are playing a game you enjoy & you don't have some bloated ego.
>>736099117Reality checks and stop coddling people in general>The world doesnt revolve around you>You are not entitled to win, you need to earn it>In a situation where someone puts in effort to improve and you don't, you are not entitled to the same results >There are always people better than you, crying about it will not change that>If you do not want to engage in competition then move yourself elsewhere, do not expect a competitive scene to worsen itself for you>You are not the only person with a "job, life, 9-5 wagie, muh relaxation".>Instead of demanding all games change themselves to cater to you, understand that you should seek out games more suitable to your tastes instead.
>>736107314i think you just get mad when you lose because you don't have a deep understanding of the games you play and the reasons you win and lose
>>736107759>/v/irgins>not having an ego
>>736105107Are games only fun to you when you're winning and beating everything on your first try?
>>736107712Koreans all went in gold farming when WoW came outslave mentality
>>736099117what people seem to not understand and its why i think no one in this fucking thread plays rts games is that playing w normal people even randoms who arent ur friends is a lot of fun. The time spent in dow/coh lobbies with either was a really fun experience and what actually makes mp rts fun. sure, i like the sweaty stuff too but its a little too much sometimes. sp rts is generally pretty boring tho
>>736107880I agree, team PVP is way more fun than 1v1 even if you think you suck at the game.
>>736107314This is just not true at all. When you first start playing any game with ELO moderated match making, you're going to have a pretty random string of matches because the system is trying figure out where to put you. But after just a bit of time your level is found and you get to play with those on your level. Generally speaking most ELO systems don't start you on the bottom and have you work your way up.
>>736105860Is it a dynamic grand campaign like in Total War or Paradox? If not then it's no good.
>>736107841>>736107759>getting anally rape is funzoomie
>>736108360>losing is like being homosexually rapedare you russian?
>>736099117Whats RTS mean?
>>736108618Teitoshin Deformed Mascot.
>>736108618The Real-Time Strategy genre, including such games as Age of Empires, StarCraft, and Command & Conquer.
>>736099117They're just not very good after some point. There's a reason why they were referred to both derisively and affectionately as 'action clickers' here.Dune II still has one of my favourite ever intros, by the way. Star Craft too.pic not related
>>736108094Which is why I specified at the start that it's not actually ELO that they use, because ELO doesn't actually mean 50/50 win/loss. It's an engagement farming algorithm under the guise of ELO.
>>736099117RTS (and all other games) of that era were made to be played for 15-20 hours tops. Singleplayer has always been the standard way to play and mutliplayer the added bonus to mess around with.
>>736107314>All the matchmaking does is flip flop which player gets to effortlessly stomp that match as it oscillates around the 50/50 pointI have genuinely never felt this despite /v/ acting like it's how every multiplayer game goes. Hell, here's even the scorelines for my recent ranked matches in CS.
>>736108857the point of elo is that you play against people at the same skill level as you. if you are winning more than half of your games it means you are better than the people you are playing against and your elo will increase. when you reach your actual skill level you will only win half of your matches and your elo will stabilize because that's how the system is meant to work.
>>736109078>16:12wow you RAPED them, must have been a good fair match>9:13wow you GOT RAPED, must have been a bad unfair matchXTREEEEEEEEEEM GAMER PERSPECTIVE I HATE WOMEN AND BROWNS
>real world warfare includes tunnels>no RTS let's me create a vast tunnel networkWhy is it so
>get introduced to RTS>try to do some tactical stuff>get destroyed because the other player did it was faster>alright this sucks>another person wants to introduce me to RTS>decide to give it yet again another go>maybe this one isn't all about knowing everything and being the speediest>get crushed because I didn't gather enough resources in timeI dislike RTS because it's basically extreme autism.If you like it I don't judge you but man how?You basically need to study the game perfectly beforehand and make split decisions to try and do what the enemy is doing but faster.How is that enjoyable?In a turn strategy game I can wait a bit, think about it, then go for a decision and see the results, even if I fail I can learn and be like "Ah fuck I missed X" or "Maybe doing Y was too risky".RTS is basically playing Cookie Clicker competitively, trying to be the first to reach a million cookies.
>>736109302ahem
>>736109843You can literally watch videos of people reaching high ranks and shitting on other players while purposefully limiting their APM. You are not a tactical genius losing solely because your opponent has spent thousands of hours learning to click faster than you. Your tactics simply aren't that good. Also, literally every game out there benefits from you actually learning how to play it so you can make decisions faster. Even Chess.
>>736110070After marathoning Harstem's "Is it imba or do I suck" series, I've concluded that most people hilariously overestimate both themselves and their opponents. Like no dude, you didn't lose because the other guy did basic micro with his cloaked banshees. You lost because your retarded ass wasted all your scans on scouting instead of just sending SCVs/hellions to the other side of the map every few minutes.
>>736110070you don't get it unc, we don't want to play your stoopid gook esports mode. Give me a campaign or I won't play.
>>736099117You can't fix stupid, anon. Either a gamer has enough functional neurons that they can comprehend and thus enjoy RTS, or they are forever relegated to games controlling a single character/vehicle/etc because it's all their undeveloped brain can handle.
i like gates of hell ostfront purely due to enjoying the setting and the dopamine hit from stealing as many of the enemy AI's tanks as i possibly can in skirmish, singleplayer RTT's are for me
>>736110287>I've concluded that most people hilariously overestimate both themselves and their opponentsDunning Kruger is a household name for a reason. Like yeah, bro, you only lost in silver because you were facing a smurfing pro with 7k hours addicted to adderall playing like he's fighting for his life and not a fellow shitter having a good game, uh-huh.
>>736109843Behold the medium ai slayer
>>736105860>Series known specifically for its 3D unique space warfare downgraded to flat 2D ground-based warfare like 90% of all other RTSYeah it's a total mystery why nobody bought it anon, maybe you'll solve the riddle of Kharak one day.
>>736099724that doesn't change the fact the apm meta just isn't fun or even really strategic, its just do more faster and micro harder.
>>736105951>>736106207>>736110980>Look at all these campaigncopers cope with the fact they suck at everything and won't try new games>cause they suck
More like Complainniggers amirite
>>736099117Based on your image, we don'tNobody wants pvp dogshit, I'm sorryMultiplayer in red alert was an afterthought, it was for friends fucking around against the ai and custom maps, it was not the meat of the gameRts games are at their best when they're single player and not "please focus your attention 43 places at once" multiplayer pieces of shit that are fundamentally just not that fun.Anyone who says rts games aren't 50% city management planners and builders is just wrong and doesn't like what the genre originally was.Like what are you after here?>i like this genre>NO YOU HAVE TO LIKE IT THE WAY I LIKE IT>no? genuinely where do you see this going? I'm not playing shit I don't enjoy. I'm going to explore the map, build a big base, make it secure whilst taking out imminent threats, and then roll out armies at the end.If you cannot cater to what I want then you will not get my money or playtime man. I can just keep playing old rts
>>736099238Used to think this but after actually trying out an old RTS, there are in fact retards for you to beat up in every game. No matter how long they've been playing.
the main reason the genre is dead is because its completely incompatible with consoles.
>>736111267I think you got some sand in your tight little butthole, anon.
Reminder that rts pvpers are a loud minority
>>736111551Co-op GAWDS, what are some good games for stomping hard AI with fellow scrubs? I'm bored of running over BARbarians with experimentals.
>>736111551>Source : this picture
>>736099708>strikes fear into medium AIs everywheremy king, i kneel
>>736111495Basically this. There were attempts to put them on consoles like Halo Wars, BFME2 and Tiberium Wars but RTS is a distinctly PC genre.
>>736099117What's wrong with it?I played Total War for the First time in December with Warhammer 3 and already put in 1k hours.
>>736110983Of all the boomer genres, fighting games definitely aged better in terms of being able to meld optimal gameplay and thinking modes. There are some turn based fighting games out there but they're more experimental than anything. It's like the pace that people naturally approach the game at is also the pace the game wants to run at.
What is this phenotype called? In soul slop they are know as KevinsI guess midwit works but there should be a better name for this
>>736111883We've had the term "casual" for almost 20 years now.
>>736099708/thread, OP raped
>>736104641>normalfags>implying faggots on the chans didn't already misunderstand it That said, in this case I'll allow it because fuck sweats
>>736107790>In a situation where someone puts in effort to improve and you don't,What a weird way to say "no-lifer who has been doing this one thing for the past 20 years".
I want a large scale continuous war simulator. Huge map, tons of units and unit variety. I don't know how you'd separate everything so our hardware doesn't die. Planetside and Foxhole and things like that work similar to what I want. It would honestly fulfill the autists that love turtling in single player until they can release a gigantic wave of units. It's either that or something like M&B but more focused on being an RPG just with RTS base building/unit control elements.
>>736112613Have you ever tried the SupCom family?
>>736111551people post this all the time but no one posts the steam data that shows like 50% of the people playing aoe2 at any given time are doing multiplayer.
>>736109843Go to goytube Type [game name] basic build order noobAnd done you are a sweat smurfing pro now
>>736112675Yeah it's probably why I love larger scale stuff. Put a lot of time into Planetary Annihilation and the sequel too.
>>736112708That doesn't suit my narrative.
>>736099117Stop giving out participation trophies to thirdies and communists and instead focus on education and inclusion for the minority of whites that actually matter to progression in the world. They'll do fine with RTS games, always have. Then rangeban the rest of the world so they don't have to put up with gookclick.There you go, RTS genre fixed. The problem was never the games, the problem was always the people that the games' creators keep trying to include in the customer base.
>>736112708yeah they are called custom games, a core feature of AOE2 with the most user friendly map editor in gaming history. Fucking retard. They are not playing 1v1, unc.
>>736112586More like a couple weeks and some tutorial videos for skilled noobs (the so called "smurfs" who beat you like a dog), but even that is too much effort for people like you who need instant gratification drip fed into their veins 24/7.
>>736112708>AoE2>SteamDE is streamer slop. A 25 year old game does NOT need any balance updates or additional monetization, you retarded zoomer subhuman
>>736111551Yeah, the one that actually buy and plays games
>>736112613I always wondered why rts games didn't jump on the BR bandwagon for that reason. Huge asymmetrical map, lots of people and random spawns so you have to change up your build order to adapt each time. You can turtle if you want, you can get bailed out by a third party jumping your aggressor. Could have an extraction component too that lets people quit on their own terms so they don't have to feel like they 'lost'. So much design space to play around in that isn't an elevator fight in a symmetrical map.
>>736112932Keep projecting, faggot
>>736112946Where else do you think people buy AOE2? All you can buy is from microsoft store and steam. Nobody still has disks and disk drives anymore on new PCs. Even the HD version is on steam.
>>736099117Those first 4 are literally me and I am not sorry Fuck e-sports and tryhardsI miss RTS campaignsI miss playing skirmish modes against bots over LAN with my buddies who also sucked at the game too much to play online
>>736099708Me on the right>beaten Supcom vanilla and FA's campaigns with all three factions>never once touched Supcom multiplayer
>>736113138>Nobody still has disks and disk drives anymore on new PCsSpeak for yourself, you dumb faggot.There's also other sources, but you wouldn't know, you dumb faggot.
I like Call to Arms: Osfront and similar, the story is that it's WW2good enough desu. A Vietnam Call to Arms would be kino, or a Korean War expansion.
>>736113239So you have a PC that is 10+ years old? You are in the minority
>>736113348What the fuck are you talking about man? They sell USB-C disc drives on any online marketplace. Are you some kind of consolefag LARPing as PC?
>>736113437And an extreme minority actually buys them. So if you bought that, where are you going to buy the new age of empires CD copy? You expect them go on ebay?
>>736113348Protip, little zoomie: You only need an optical drive to read optical media. Nothing about that warrants having an actual old machine.In fact, the newest part in my machine is a two year old graphics card.Now go kys you waste of life
>>736099117Skill issue. WH3 and Dune Spice Wars already did this
>>736113519But remember, you are arguing for a large amount of people. Remember you called age of empires digital on steam "streamer slop" yet you are such a retard you can't account for many players playing anywhere else. You try to argue "yeah buts... optical drives" like a retard.
>>736099708Literally me in DoW and WH3
>>736113692Get some reading comprehension esl retard
>>736113816Get a new PC and stop living in 2012... maybe upgrade past windows xp while you're at it
>>736112392>implying faggots on the chans didn't already misunderstand itYou think there weren't normalfags on here then?>That said, in this case I'll allow itOf course you will. 'Thing you hate' lost to 'thing you like' so it's good.
>>736113816>calls others ESL>still plays age of empires with his CDs
>>736113873So now you're just throwing shit at the wall to see what sticks, huh, esl retard?
>>736113946>'Thing you hate' lost to 'thing you like' so it's good.Yes.gigachad.tiff
>>736113960I think it's your bed time, chang
>>736099117I play tower defense tho, one of my favorite genresjust let me build shit I don't give a shit about try harding.
>>736111551>>736112708
>>736114038>not even a handful of posts in and already resorting to "hurf durf chang" postingSo what shade of brown are you? Poojeet? Beaner? Some kind of sandnigger?I think you're indian, since only streetshitters use "chang" anymore
>>736099238Fighting games aren't meant for white people so idk why you'd even bring that up
>>736099117>retard complains about normal people not being as stupid as he isThanks for letting me know some idiot out there is seething without any input or effort on my part. I'll keep playing single player Total Annihilation with hacks that let me pause the game whenever the fuck I want.
>>736099117>blizzardniggerdidn't read
>>736099117I had enough of RTS when me and my friends used to 3v1 the guy at the cyber cafe in red alert 2 for the chance of free hours
>>736099117Lower barrier to entry.Fun, even while losing and when you suck.I think AoE2 has done pretty well in those two respects.What is the file size of aoe2 on steam now btw? I hope it stayed low and didn't get bloated like wc3 with reforged.
I miss when they would put out passable mid RTS games licensed off of existing movie or book franchises. Not every game needs to be le meta uber balanced e-sport. The fighting game comparison is apt, we also used to get mid fighting games based on movies and cartoons that weren't admittedly not as good or balanced as Capcom or SNK games but sometimes they were still fun.
>>736114356You sound angry. Maybe it's because you can't afford DE version
>>736110725Wow me too. It's cool to have such a diverse roster of WW2 guys and vehicles move around my screen. I also love how some singleplayer missions have civilians in them so the locations don't feel like they exist just to serve as airsoft arena-like facades. I just wish the game wasn't so janky. I call this specific sort of jank "sticky".>Click on an icon>Okay, do it here>...>Oops, I guess I missed it by a pixel>Get into this trench>half of the guys got in and the other half are standing on the edges>Direct control a sniper>Spent 10 minutes shooting at a guy because you wait for the aim focus circle to shrink despite it feeling like a placebo and elite guys like a paratroopers take 5 headshots to kill.>Some missions let you to get away with clearing the whole mission like this and I'm not sure if that's a good or a bad thing.>Double right clicking makes your guys run unless they are prone when the game considers it a single click unless you quadruple right click.>Three modes of control for directing an unit, but you have first go into one mode to get to the another, instead of a specific key always switching in and out of its specific mode.>Build a wall of hedgehogs that goes to the edge of the map>Enemy AI tanks just cross the map border and go around it>Figure that maybe the AI is just picking the shortest way around the defenses>Extend the hedgehog wall along the map border all the way down to the bottom edge of the map>AI still picks to go chill in the fog.
>>736114883>I-I'M NOT MAD! YOU ARE MAD!Oh Ranjesh, you're killing me
>>736114804They put out like 3 versions of Jurassic World where you can build a park and run it like sim city. What more do you want?
>>736099117>Play a tower defense thenFUNNY STORY ABOUT THAT
>>736115479HOW FUNNY? DOES IT INCLUDE MONKEYS?
>>736115584Bloons is the closest thing we have to a good TD these days. Elements TD 2 doubled down on what made Elements TD shit, Nobody wants to make a modern Poker defense or Bunker Defense and Gemcraft went full retard.
>>736115329I mean that's great but park management sims aren't RTSes.
>>736099117Some of those complaints are legit though.RTS genre died when people focused too much on the multiplayer aspect.AoE2 is the ultimate RTS and it's fun to casual and competitive players>great gameplay>great solo campaign>fun maps>memorable voiceacting>amazing soundtrack >>736099238You don't have to be good at a game to have fun. There are always casuals and retards around
>>736111551What are some actual fun coop rts games? Want to find something to play with my godfather that loves blitzkrieg
>>736116864BAR has 2 co op modes and a very decent AI
>>736099708>strikes fear into medium AI everywhereMy fucking sides
>>736111517Judging by how he acts, I don't think it's very tight any more
Coh 1 and 2 4v4 expert AI with three friends is fucking peak and I will not accept slander on it.
>>736099117RTS is the funniest case study in video games because it so blatantly and obviously shows how pandering to compfag incels will kill your game
>>736115934getting bodied is not fun
>>736112953Fighting games and rts are almost completely anti-thesis.Rts does not respect your time whatsoever. It allows you to accrue resource advantage though mechanical mastery. Fighting games do not allow this with some minor exceptions. As in, in a fighting game, mechanical skill allows you to capitalize on your opportunities better than if you lack skill. You can wave dash all you want, and it can help with positioning, and in some games something like moving forward may build meter, but even then that meter cannot typically be expended without opportunity. Whereas, in RTS, you can leverage mechanical skill into raw advantage through higher resources. If you’ve ever actually played a fighting game you understand the massive difference. It doesn’t matter if you can do multiple PEWGF in a row in a match unless you’ve landed a hit. Whereas it does matter if you are macroing at a pro level. You can always, brainlessly, accrue advantage in an RTS regardless of what your opponent is doing. Hence why it is played by Koreans. This is important, because the fighting game which probably does have the most brainless leverage of mechanical skill into advantage, is tekken, a game also played by Koreans (and even then they ended up getting mogged by pakis of all things) given how tekken’s neutral works you do get an advantage state in neutral by kbding and OS/fuzzying like a sperg
>>736103294surprisingly insightful
>>736117394Halo Reach, Halo 4, Street Fighter 5, and basically every SSB were in the opposite situation. People like pretending that competitive oriented changes compromises casual experience when they have never given a fuck. People can and should have the ability to fall in either camp. This board constantly proves to itself that it is filled with people who don't play games as usual
>>736117993I like how you named games in which prominent series all had a massive fall off
>>736117936imagine playing a rts where you tell your worker to make a depot but you hit the hotkey 1/60th of a second too fast so the depot doesn't make.
>>736118206That would be an improvement, hard limits on apm would make rts more suited for actual competitive play. There’s a reason the GOAT of strategic 1v1 games is turn based.
>>736109843>muh APMwhen will this shit-tier cope die
>>736118301if it was like a fighting game it would also fail if you were 1/60th of a second too slow though, and if you complained that it was arbitrarily strict all of the oldtimer players would laugh at you.
>>736118206>fucking dance all dayDIDN'T MAKE
>>736099117everything he said was ok until "easy mode" and turn-basedbut yeah I don't want to memorize builds and repeatedly hurry through a basic skeleton of a base squeezing out a minimal amount of units at the right time to pester my opponent enough to delay his standard army blob before my standard army blob ok?I want to build a mini kigndom with rational (aka defendable) bordersI want to send cool units that wipe out half his base/army in one sneaky/powerful strike because that's funcompfags ruined RTS
>>736120772I find this quite amusing since I play Age of Mythology and Heroes 5 on my shitty old ass Mac whenever I get the chance.
i want a persistent rts campaignthose outposts are forward bases remain on an grand scale map and you have to go back and check on them every now and again as the campaign pushes you forward
>>736114720File size is currently at 15.38GB
>>736121094>Airships : Conquer the Skies
>>736121094*AHEM*
>>736099117I said it before and I'll say it again: RTS games stopped being fun when they became a test of dexterity and not tactics and logistics.
>>7360995825th grade level is the lower band for native fluency in a language, anything beyond 7 and 8 just gets more flowery and saturated with purple prose that does nothing but flex the fact the writer owns a thesaurus.
>>736121620Try out Line Wars. It's an indie RTS that tries to deliberately build mechanics in a way to mitigate this issue.
>>736121620>became a test of dexterity and not tactics and logistics.This is just shitter cope.
>enemy spawns in advantageous terrain that's impossible to assault
>>736121806Wishlisted, the genre has been stagnating for a long time so things like this is right up my alley.
>>736099117There will always be a schism between singleplayer and multiplayer in any game where there's PVP and I don't think most people have the mindset to enjoy it. It doesn't help that singleplayer and multiplayer are a vastly different game. To a certain extent I think it's fine to complain about the difference. Maybe some guy really likes Byzantine Cataphracts but in multiplayer they're too situational.However, I always found it funny how much of the RTS complaints are the same as in fighting games where you get the same narrative of, "I've been a third strike fan and fighting game fan since forever, but I hate the multiplayer where people spam block and fireballs. I won't try to get better because there's guys that have never stopped playing and there's no point." They make up the majority in anything competitive, even chess.
>>736117936>Fighting games and rts are almost completely anti-thesis.>Rts does not respect your time whatsoOpinion discardedDeadBuriedHiddenConcord'dTossed into the sunDevaluatedDollar'dRatio'dDislikedDownvotedCast awayFiredForgottenAmontillado'd
>>736121435Damn.Less than reforged at least, but I hoped it would be lower.
>>736121620When you do the correct thing enough, you don't take as long as others to do the correct thing. This compounds until you get faster than everyone else and make it look like a game of dexterity when it's really not. Slow players beat fast players often enough that it's absolutely not a factor. Wasted APM only makes you react faster, it doesn't influence decision making beyond what risks you're willing to take. If anything it turns you into an easily goaded spaz.
>>736122325>However, I always found it funny how much of the RTS complaints are the same as in fighting games where you get the same narrative of, "I've been a third strike fan and fighting game fan since forever, but I hate the multiplayer where people spam block and fireballs. I won't try to get better because there's guys that have never stopped playing and there's no point." They make up the majority in anything competitive, even chess.kek yes because there are fans and """fans"""", the so called secondaries, thirdies, onlookers and Baikenfags that never ever actually played for real the game they claim so much to be in love with, but are very opinionated
>>736122325>>736122794>"I've been a third strike fan and fighting game fan since forever, but I hate the multiplayer where people spam block and fireballs. I won't try to get better because there's guys that have never stopped playing and there's no point." They make up the majority in anything competitive, even chess.Yeah. RTS were basically mainstream normalfag genre during their Golden Age. So the biggest RTS population was just a people who don't know how to play RTS outside of their campaigns against easy AI. Similar how most Diablo "enjoyers" didn't beat the game after normal but Diablo was more assessable so half of its fanbase did know how to play the game. Not the case of RTS.Secondaries just want to play their RTS campaigns. No idea why when 4x and Total War were designed specially for them.
>>736110070Their APM limits are still really high by any normal standard. They'd get nowhere limiting to 15 or 10.
>>736121620>RTS games stopped being fun when they became a test of dexterity and not tactics and logistics.There are several ways to win in an RTS thanks to being real timeI got into them because of a friend way back then into 2000's that understood the games pretty well and he relied on his speed all the time to overwhelm other players. But he was an absolute dildo at adapting. Once we really started to grow into SC and AoE2 I realized he relied on that speed so much he had trouble thinking ahead. Started to beat him consistently just with game knowledge and better economy. And he was good, but just didn't saw the big picture.Another of my friends was into watching AoE2 ancient tournaments and started learning the game and sharing several tips and tricks and with just a few we were already the top on out cyber cafe (that what it was called in the ancient times, son)Starcraft was all about speed and only speed. That's why i realized how it kinda sucked compared to AoE series. But with an open sandbox like a good RTS should be there's so much player expression around. 4v4s were the epitome of long winded fun, specially when ALL of the players enjoy learning and winning and losing, along with a beer.
>>736121620you were a retard before and you are still a retard now
>>736121620Hitting first and hitting fast leads to hitting lastSorry not sorry i'm not gonna let you build that castle
>>736123181one action every 4-6 seconds..?is this how fast the average "muh APM" shitter is?
>>73612318110 APM??? You'd have to have severe arthritis to play that slow. I don't practice or play ranked at all and I average 40-60 APM in Starcraft 2.
True base building RTS games like aoe2 is fun. Especially in 12 man FFA
>>736123063Those normies are the people who paid to make 'your' game profitable tryhard faggot. They went away because the games were no longer for them and surprise surprise now you have NO games.This sort of retard shortsighted mentality is what killed so many genres. It's as if it's impossible to make a game that can be enjoyed by casuals and tryhards.
>>736123461The point is that you can't say APM is unimportant if you're hovering barely out of reach of functional APM.
>>736123461Yes.
>>736123461No I'm usually around 80-100 with valleys of 0-5 because my hands froze up and I physically can't do anything.
>>736123629>le profitable >This sort of retard shortsighted mentality is what killed so many genres. Just play your gacha and AAA FOMO FOTM slop.
>>736109843First off play a good oneSecond of all you ARE going to lose half the time. But when you win your dick is going to grow in size and girls will smell your confidence meters away. It feels so good to get to know the game, and get to know yourself. You find your strengths and weaknesses within yourself by translating them into a videogame. You overcome the other player by overcoming yourself, and that GG becomes an actual form of respect.
>>736123629My favorite RTS is free kek
>>736123637functional APM is accessible to anyone without physical and mental disabilities so there is no point restricting themselves to retard levels of APMyou're also missing the point of those videosit's not to show that APM is unimportant, it's just not that significantit's to show that having an average joe APM is still more than enough to beat 99% of players and so APM is most likely not the thing holding you or anyone back
>>736123181>>736123461/vee/ is shitter board. Just check any PVP games thread.
>>736123637"Functional" APM is achieved simply by remembering your hotkeys. It's like saying you can't win a match in a fighting game without learning how to move left and right. These are the basic controls, not some hidden mastery that gatekeeps non-pros. People who aren't doing that bare minimum and want to play RTS mouse only can go jump ship to 4X or Total War.
>>736123981I disagree, there's a very good point in restricting themselves to extremely low APM.
>>736104136AoE II's initial balance has been said to be built off feedback from AoE I's competitive scene at the time. Defensive options actually became worth a shit and villager mortality greatly improved while neither unga nor cavalry archers don't walk all over the game. Among everything else, I'd say it worked out well for both sides.
>>736122613Fighting game >lose one RPS situation >knockdown into oki which is a brand new RPS situation >repeat multiple times >ends with one round Vs rts>waste anywhere from 2-5 minutes of the extremely boring opener depending on the game >one RPS decision loses you the game Shine literally lost to Hero in a 7 minute zero skill game purely off a build order win. Rts does not respect your time but of course you don’t watch asl because you don’t know shit
>>736124161>waste anywhere from 2-5 minutes of the extremely boring opener depending on the game>one RPS decision loses you the gameshitter
>>736124364So flash is a shitter according to pajeets like you?
>>736123461>>736123528Starcraft is the most "APM" demanding game (they coined the term that's how bad it is) and i also was at 40-60 APM back then and managed to reach high Gold so you don't really need it that much more than game knowledge.Now, I realized that the thing that was keeping me out of staying at Platinum was a bit more of game knowledge and a whole lot of APM, BUT because Starcraft 2 interface IS ASS. SC1 interface WAS ALWAYS ASS. The game is measured in APM because it is wholly bad to play, as it is designed to waste your attention in several mind numbingly actions and repetitions to disguise the fact that Starcraft is at its core, very very simple and all about strengths in numbers. Starcraft 1 has control group shit that you know and SC2 has bad pathfinding, hitboxes, awful unit purpose design into bland rampmaps and hotkeys that are not made to ease your strategy expression but to be pressed out of the requirement of being pressed itself, like spawning larvas or Chronoboosting. They're the Screaming Alarm meme, they're alarms that, if not pressed, they will scream that they're not being turned off, and will scream 2 seconds after again. Creep growing or bodyblocking units with other units is ass. The base building might as well not be there at all since there's no inventive thought of dropping the buildings at all. The game is "balanced" around all of these APM inflating stuff that make the game akin to a rythm game and stop being interesting or fun. Higher tiers are just the same "TACTICS" of two unit spam but faster.Then you play AoE or SupCom/BAR likes and realize the APM meme is only because of Blizzhits.
>>736124423Your boyfriend lost because he's a high elo shitter it seems
>>736103294unsurprisingly retarded
>>736124515Yep, it’s a pajeet
>>736124423>projectingI don't watch your Marvel trash.If you lose because of one mistake you're shit.And this can happen to your in fighting games too.
>>736124546Who
>>736099283Unironically this. Yes I do like fighting the easiest computer in AoE2 and bullying them with watch towers and a bunch of archers that they'll run their army into. I like for stuff like that.
>>736124546Your boyfriend? Sad. Why are you talking about your boyfriend anyway?
>>736124573>>736124650>bloody bitch benchod soulkey is dahlit casteeeee saaaaAr
>>736124465SupCom/BAR do have slightly APM intensive scenarios like blocking an early scout rush onto your mass/metal, but you are right that they are much more "high level strategy" games than keyboard mashing fests like Starcraft. I find games of BAR are decided more by unit composition and tech timings than by unit micro, although good splitting/spacing and using hills to block shots can still win you an unfavorable fight. I also love how you can almost entirely automate your unit production so you can allocate your limited APM where it matters.
>>736099283Its this. People went to RTS games early on because they wanted a cool city and army builder, not because they wanted a war game. You stomp your enemy at the end because its what you do with an army and gives it a clear win condition but the game for most RTS players is just building stuff, and this was lost on a lot of RTS developers. It may still be.
>>736124465This tbqh. Every RTS since then has purposefully de-emphasized APM or unintentionally did by virtue of just better game design.I play CoH3 exclusively now and while it would feel really shitty to play if you're used to going faster, you can definitely get high ranks there with 10 APM.Picrel is the most intense action your right mouse button will ever experience.
>>736099117literally me lmao, the only rts i ever finished was dawn of war, i loved building my base and only sending dreadnoughts to destroy the enemy base
>>736124762It's more accurate to say that they reward APM but don't require it and it doesn't take much APM to hit what the game expects of you.
i have never played a rts in my life and probably never will. play a real action game
I had zero problems playing SC with low APM against other low APM gamers.
>>736124865>2 pzpio + 250this start is dead in the patch that just dropped today btw
Yes, I AM going to keep bitching about build orders in RTS.No, I DON'T think they are fun to practice.Yes, I AM going to keep bitching about APM in RTS and blaming Korea, esports, and companies catering to both for the downward trajectory of RTS.No, I DON'T think APM in other games is equivalent to APM in RTS.Yes, I AM going to keep bitching about APM sinks and I AM going to keep calling them bad design.Yes, I DO think turn based strategy games are better than real time strategy games.Yes, I DO think any strategy game where the opener requires physical skill and practice over dozens of games is a shit strategy game.Yes, I DO think Starcraft is more action than strategy and is a bad game because of it.No, I DON'T find Koreans spamming keys at 500 miles per hour interesting to watch or something to aspire to.No, I DON'T find small scale real time strategy interesting.No, I DON'T think Starcraft and Warcraft have good stories, I have always thought they are poorly written.Yes, I AM going to keep playing Supreme Commander and Total Annihilation and Zero-K. Any RTS with an inferior UI has to justify me playing it.
>>736125726RTSbros...
>>736124848I like the smaller skirmishes over expansions, but actually going for the kill is like my least favorite part of an RTS. get stressed thinking "if i mess up my clicks here everything i've built will be destroyed even though i'm the one attacking".
>>736125573speaking of low APM it'd be interesting to see if an RTS with a "command delay" could actually be fun. Like units only receive your commands every 30 seconds on the dot, and any commands you make after don't get received until the next 30 second window ends.
>>736099117>schizo compfag shitpostNo one cares. Competitive multiplayer does not nor did it ever keep AoE2 alive. You are a retarded shitposter.
>>736126105That kind of anxiety usually goes away once you get better at scouting and recognizing just how shit your opponent's situation is. If you just wiped their army less than 5 minutes ago and you scouted enough to know you have more bases than them, an attack into their main is basically a free win if you're decisive enough to do it before the next army can pop out of the enemy's buildings.
>>736126105>if i mess up my clicks here everything i've built will be destroyed even though i'm the one attacking".Why not just play idle game? Like city builder. You like skirmishes but you don't like losing so you like winning agaisnt weak opponent (AI).
>>736126227Anon, that’s turn based with a timer. A bunch of games have this
>>736126227Should make it a space RTS because the high latency caused by distance in space would be an easy justification.
>>736104641it literally took 2 days between "the virgin walk vs the chad stride" and "thing I like vs thing I hate"
>>736123995I want to hit Howie empathizers with a brick
>>736126559not the same, the combat would still play out like Starcraft, with things like unit pathing and movement working just like they do currently. but the delay would give it a slightly more realistic "commander" feel where you have to think ahead and if you fuck up you'll send a ton of dudes into a meat grinder.
>>736126570yeah, i was imagining some kind of "nebula storms block your coms so you can only send commands in fixed intervals".
>>736126227>>736126570>could actually be funPlay EVE online large fleet battles>Time dilation slows down time so the server can keep up with what y'all are doing. We're going to work on it nowish and if everything works out you'll see it some time not quite soon.This is how maximum TiDI looks like (Just click in the middle of the video)5 minutes turns into 1 hour.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sfHn3CkjL_cIt's not fun. Delay isn't fun in any video game.
RTS need campaigns, PvP simply is not fun.
>>736124515If the best SC player of all time is losing matches to that shit maybe there's a problem with the game.
>>736105107>>736106507When sc2 was huge, I was really damn good at it, like top 1 percent but unless you were top 200 it didn't matter. Out of 100k players I was ranked like 500, but I got so burned out because every fucking match was a fight for your life grind.Eventually I stopped laddering and just went into zerg channels and said I'd only build marines. That kept me going for a few more months.Haven't played an rts since.
>>736106775This, me and my 2 buddies like playing AOE2 and Company of Heros 2 against hard AI for fun
Admit that "tryhard", "sweatlord", and the like just means "better than a dog chewing on a controller".
>>736128510You're the one playing a game that is so basic it can be played on a controller.
>>736127364that's not at all what we're talking about anon. the delay only applies to new orders, the action occurs at the same speed. so if you tell a group of Marines to attack the enemy base at 4:58 on the in game clock, they'll move to attack at 5:00, then if you realize you walked into a trap, you won't be able to make them turn around til 5:30, but everything would play out exactly as it does in game aside from you not being able to give new orders on the fly to make them spastically micro-dance. Obviously the game balance would have to be significantly adjusted, but the idea is to make it less about twitch APM skills and more about giving intelligent orders. Ideally you'd be able to give more elaborate commands like "attack, then fall back 10 seconds later" although i'm not 100% on how those would work.
>>736128327>maybe there's a problem with the game.YESBECAUSE IT ISSTARCRAFT IS A FUCKING BIG ASS OVERHYPED PROBLEM OF ASS SHITS
>>736099117I feel like a lot of people forget that casuals never actually stick around for games after the initial period. If you want something to specifically last long-term that is exactly the one audience you don't want.There are actually a plethora of examples of live service flops (need longterm players for big profit) thanks to greedily targeting a audience that doesn't stay long in the last decade.As for RTS, the numbers for the genre are still relatively healthy and there are plenty of new games coming out. But the main trend for it has been towards strategy than control which is why you see total war/those weird military tactical rts games do better than others.Adversely you even see a resurgence in turnbased tactical games supporting that trend.
>>736128895>but the idea is to make it less about twitch APM skills and more about giving intelligent orders.Yeah anon twitch APM skills is exactly what prevents you from unleashing your tactical genius in RTS. Same with fps, tps, action games etc. Intelligent gamers are artificially oppressed by video game industry that panders to physically superior stupid low int dudebros with good reaction and reflexes. Only unplayable jankslop can allow real intelligent gamers to dominate online.
>>736123181>>736123637>They'd get nowhere limiting to 15 or 10.This is like saying an FPS player would get nowhere limiting themselves to a 1500ms reaction time or cranking their sensitivity so high that blowing on their mouse does a 360. It would be a genuine challenge on it's own for any player, except maybe one that's brand new and reading every tooltip, to hit 10 APM.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e5xTD-H9D-gLike look at little is going on in the first couple minutes and he's still hovering around 40 apm. You'd have to be doing practically nothing. Yours is probably higher than you think it is.
I want more indepth RTS with more focus on sandbox and even more MP oriented controlled chaos and thus being even harder to completely dominate with awesome graphics to bait shitters into it but then to filter them even harder, just to see them be the Fox and the Sour Grapes coping and i'm not jokingI want even harder RTS.
>>736130326>>736130350You gotta understand these people you're answering to swear that smart people take their slow time analyzing things when it's the exact oppositeBut it's hard for a dummy to get smart stuff. Might as well see them as wizards.
>>736126403A good example is level 3 on SC1 terran campaign. They tell you to prepare for an onslaught, but if you take a couple of squads immediately you can roflstomp the zerg before they build their army
>>736130350Nah, if you're not playing some shitty twitch only FPS you can get somewhere with very slow reactions.
>>736131019Not even in Arma LMAOWhat kind of games do you play? Movie games on journalist difficulty with 100% autoaim on?
>>736131372>He doesn't know how to fight without direct LOS
>>736099117Kenshi, despite the fact that it's clearly not finished, is the end goal of the RTS genre.
>>736099117Esports mentality can suck my cock. Bring back atmospheric or story driven strategy games that dont adhere to the Starcraft formula and sacrifice fun gameplay for balance.Give me more games like Deserts of Kharak
>>736099117random map generation is a required aspect of RTSi will not accept anything less
>>736130350I'm not even that good and I can still get occasional wins in multiplayer RTS matches, but the APM thing makes me wonder. You see the Korean pros and the like just constantly spamming clicks in the downtime where nothing is actually happening. Is that just to inflate the APM number or to keep busy until something relevant actually does happen? I think most people would be fine at RTS in general if they just remembered the absolute basics for the genre. Spend your money on shit, expand out onto the map, scout what your enemy is doing from time to time, and don't turtle. You turtle, you lose.
>>736121620Can't believe real time strategy players who implement their strategy faster get an advantage, this is so fucked. I do think an RTS that slows downs units and your orders to them and emphasizes the need to supply, position and provide them with information, with the battle itself being secondary, could be interesting. And of course there's a niche of a single-player only cinematic RTS with a focus on mission design and presentation that simply sells you the feeling of being the ultimate general turning the tide of the war, without the need to really be that good.
>>736132312>I do think an RTS that slows downs units and your orders to them and emphasizes the need to supply, position and provide them with information, with the battle itself being secondary, could be interestingCompany of HeroesBARSupComAge of EmpiresAshes of SingluarityAll of these are like that
>>736132415"Game has important economy" is not really what I'm talking about.
>>736132718Oh now i get your pointI think it might work, like battles being attrition from the fronts and the game itself is more economy oriented with trading routes and exploiting resourcesI think the Dune Wars game tried that, but people say its slow boring but never tried it
>>736132295it's justa habit to keep the hands active
What RTS have you been playing bros? Does blobbing get punished?
>>736130350The difference is that noone claims precise aiming isn't an important skill in FPS in general or claims that aim will improve on its own. You have to specifically train aiming after a point.
>>736099117Single Player RTS are just a different variety of puzzle games. Every campaign level is beatable you just need to think of the right strategy and you can freely restart and retry until you get it right.
>>736099117But Total War is still going strong, it's the games that refused to evolve and adapt that died out
>>736132976GoH and BAR cause I really like artillery in games with well done explosions
>>736133065>RTS with kill logholy dopamine hit
>>736099117me playing halo wars on the 360
>>736132976Gates of Hell Single Player cause I can't stand current modern multiplayer games right now.Wish there was a rally point when summoning units.
>>736099283>mfw exclusively played NR20 MP games in Starcraft 1 back in the day
>>736123637The only thing you have to do to get over 60 APM is use your fucking keyboard, bro.
>>736133583Learning hotkeys would, presumably, lead to less clicking rather than more.
>>736133583I use my keyboard.
people always say they want a campaign but i dont exactly agree. i mean i dont just want to sit there and watch a bunch of story. RTS needs to be better in gameplay terms too.
>>736100037zug zug
>>736133697Replacing a slower action with a faster action means you can do more actions in the same time period.
>>736099117I genuinely hate these people and yet the genre cannot live without them. Imagine a whole new age of RTS players instead of league-rotted dipshits. America might actually be a country worth living in.
>>736134041What a novel idea, though I don't believe it will catch on.
>>736099117>sweat mad he can't have unfettered access to casuals to stomp
>>736099117>>736099708RTS will only return when they make a 1v1 that even casuals can enjoy.Starcraft 2 lost its way with its retarded "skill expression" focus and retarded all-or-nothing units like widow mines and disruptors.
>>736099117>He wants a singleplayer game?!?!! I WILL NOT STAND FOR THIS!!!
>>736111669SC2 coop, RoN, AoM Retold
>>736123209>cyber cafe old timerbased
If you want a good single player city builder/RTS then take a look at From Glory to Goo.https://store.steampowered.com/app/2607060/From_Glory_To_Goo/Yes it's early access but it's got enough content to be a full game already and the first part of the campaign is currently in beta.
>>736131372I used to top scoreboards in Enemy Territory playing soldier spamming mortar shots into key parts of the map from absolute safety or playing field ops and spamming artillery and airstrikes. None of those took reflexes, just an understanding of where enemies are going to be a few seconds from now,. why, and where the rest of your team wants them with airstrikes.
We need to see more battlecruisers in pro games
>>736141067SC2 is either MMM blobbing or Muta blobbing or timed Roaches (don't) and everything else is pointless fillerAfter awhile you realize not only SC2 was solved years ago, it was also kinda easy to do so
>An rts where actions are a formal resource and your actions remaining are are tracked along with the rest of your resources. It gets refilled automatically by around 1 action/second.
>>736141067>iris closes when the eye closesdiseased freak
>>736142316This is just turn based.
>>736142316I think something like this could be fun, EAPM is important too.
>>736099117Change people's impression of the game as autism esports genre.Shit's just too freaky and intimidating for people unlike FPS and MOBA. Rebrand as an amazing single player experience.
>>736142316I'd play it.
>>736121706And what does that have to do with memorizing flowcharts? Especially since everything is a video tutorial these days.
>>736124573Great reading comprehension, esl nigger
>>736142316https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s7moDQK1Yng&list=PLrFe08sgKX493Gax5DFNkpEbgICGDc0YJ
>>736099117I think arguably the "closest" thing I can think of is Stellaris.Not a RTS but it does check those boxes.
>>736124848Or you just do it differently. I personally like CnC's economy system. Two resources, used up during building, and the rest is combat. Watching high level OpenRA play is much more enjoyable than watching high level AoR2DE play.And playing is, too ;^)
>>736099117Whatever you're thinking, you're forgetting what's important.Niggers. People join just to sabotage your games.Faggots. Games are infested with pride flags these days.Tyrants. Devs who ban you if you call someone an asshole.Autists. People endlessly repeating and tryharding some meta strat making shit boring and unfun for everyone else.Children. Aka niggers and all the above, only using macros and other hacks to gain unfair advantage.Manchildren. The above, only adults who should know better but decide not to.Society abandoned RTS games for a reason.No, they aren't coming back.Good riddance. They were shit and always will be.>>736099254esports is just a way to sell cheats for a higher price.People cheat in competitions regularly, and it's not a criminal act, so there is virtually no risk.No person who has cheated to earn tourney money has ever went to prison for it and any form of competitive gaming will never become even decent again until these premeditated crimes get the punishment they deserve, which is 25 years to life prison time for first offenders of course.
>>736145619>No person who has cheated to earn tourney money has ever went to prison for itSome Brood War pros did.
Starcraft 2 was amazing, I loved playing the campaign and playing all the random shit you find on the arcade. I barely played ranked.Nowadays if I want to play an RTS I probably boot up something like Mindustry instead. Really Starcraft 2 essentially killed the RTS genre because nobody could make a better game than it, and then blizzard killed SC2 when they realized you can't just force people to participate in esports bullshit.
>>736130326>I am smart because I follow a flowchart someone more smarterer than me made
>>736099708That's Artosis on the the left, huh?>>736113214My brethen!
>>736132976are you playing as the bad guys
>>736099708He is literally me
>>736099117Yeah, people want fun, not stress. Oh noes.
>>736099117Devs keep trying to chase esports when the majority of people who buy RTS do so for the single player. So every RTS single player mode ends up being complete shit. Just look at what happened to Command & Conquer.You can't cater to Koreans because they just go back to playing Starcraft 1 or League of Legends on $300 cafe computers.
>>736099117genre started with singleplayer, you're an afterthought casual party mode
>>736142316RTS games are fundamentally wrecked at birth by the fact that they aren't even real strategy games when APM spam reigns supreme. Millions of great minds simply can't interface with the game clients effectively to do what they want to do (or care to deal with low framerates while attempting to) and this failure to execute strategies just annoys people and makes them quit and play something turn based or real-time but with better controls like an FPS, third-person, or MOBA where they can actually play instead of fail to micro-manage hundreds of retarded brainless units due to insufficient APM.For example somebody with a G600/Naga mouse with loads of custom keybinds and macros will wreck anyone with a normal 3-4 button mouse and normal inputs in any RTS if they're even remotely comparable in game knowledge and real capabilities. In turn based, this difference in input gap is made up for with time.If your game requires a fancy mouse with 16 buttons your game isn't good. Nobody cares about what koreans will do with a 3-button mouse and standard keyboard with 300 APM because nobody gives a single fuck about esports. The only relevant thing here is RTS games for most normal people feel more like they're struggling with awful software between the game and that is likely never going to change.A capped APM/low input RTS could be interesting but there's no chance anything good will be created today. This genre is perma fucked by esports retardation and general greed running rampant in the gaming industry.
>>736146683>Starcraft 2 essentially killed the RTS genre because nobody could make a better game than itBAR is better than it. RTS really just suffers a big issue with word of mouth.
>play brood war>pick zerg>make 10 control groups of mutalisks >fly around looking for the enemy base>a-click in it>sit back and enjoy
>>736126642Nah, what he's saying is that the virgin used to be the lame, sensible, completely normal response to Xand Chad was bombastic over the top to a ridiculous degree and often wrong but always cool .Now the virgin is lame, but not sensible or right and Chad is cool but no longer ridiculous and over the top. Or rather, we have 2 divergent branches of the same meme.
>>736132295Constant clicking is not for APM. It's like a football player slowly jogging towards where the ball is gonna be even if it's gonna be a while to make the play. You keep the rhythm
