Alright, explain to me in GREAT DETAIL why we cant have games like this in the west? Because all i see here is a ultra sexy fully matured female adult woman
this webm smells like shit
>>736110929>Angry Chinese/Korean girl RPing as a loli noises. Id unironically rather play this game than shlopkong or Baldurs shlop 3. Not kidding.
cute goat
>>736110929no u
waiting for anon to post his collection he promised
>>736110869Its not at all that you "cant". Its that the industry "won't". Investors and C-Suite get told by consultants not to, and they don't because they all want either loans by financers that say no to straight sex appeal or to be the biggest trend and as of the last 10 years progressive intersectional stack queerness was the trend. That is at an end, as well as many of the loans. So you will see the last of that era come out due to contractual agreements, untill the next trend starts being marched along. What that is, I do not know.
What does this add to the experience of playing the game?
>>736111658I dont know how the industry survives then, because currently the meta in the west is to just copy Korean MMOs or adopt Korean MMO sequels/new releases, and these are the types of girls Korean MMOs put out. With Rumors of Tera 2 around the corner, they need to either adapt or the industry dies off. Lost Ark got so much shit for censoring specialist that even Amazon had to reverse the decision and even announce in a YT video interview that they are fully uncensoring them.
>>736111734When you drive a car and have a choice, do you want it to look nice or look like shit? The answer should be obvious. If people had a choice, they would choose that sleekest looking car possible. Personally, i dont play games if my character looks like shit anymore, idc how fun the gameplay is.
>>736112054The thing is, "nice" is subjective. Someone can really like the look of the Mini Cooper and really dislike the look of a Bugatti.Likewise, people can dislike the look of scantily-clad fuckdolls and prefer pragmatism, for example.
>>736112225Of course its subjective. If you are dull and enjoy the 100million dark souls clones made year, then you will gravitate towards that. Im telling you why these games are successful.
>>736110869Because you don't buy them when western devs create them. Stop pirating.
>>736112343By what metric are korean mmos successful in comparison to something like WoW or FFXIV?
ok but why does she have breasts I thought she was supposed to be flat
>>736110869Wow, riveting gameplay.
>>736112424WoW had scantily clad fuckdolls on launchNever played FFXIV but I bet it has them too
You can play fully nude in Cyberpunk
>>736112673Slutmogs are one thing. Characters being designed from the ground up to be nothing but goonbait is another.
>>736112792Yeah one is more cowardly than the other
>>736112424in that KMMOs have made countless good MMOs that have made millions where as the west can only gravitate towards a 22 year old game from a company that is now completely dead and a skeleton of its former self. Its kind of pathetic. KMMOs are atleast pummping out hits in their country, regardless of the success it has in the west because of its retarded player base.
>>736112792>Characters being designed from the ground up to be nothing but goonbait is another.The only bad thing about it is that race becomes the face of the game like Elin did for TERA which turned away a lot of people because the comments were always filled with "pedo game!" from angry 40yo women
>>736112792>goonbaitWords have officially lost all meaning
>>736112673>Never played FFXIV but I bet it has them tooI think they do
>>736112792>Slutmogs>goonbaitThese two words are the same thing anon...
>>736112863It turned away a lot of people because very few people actually want their in-game representations to be ridiculous. And that's exactly what overtly sexualized characters are; funny. Most people cannot take someone fighting monsters in a microbikini while shaking their ass seriously, and that hurts immersion in a very real way.There's a reason Tera went the way of the dinosaur, though it must be said that it had very loyal whales for it to keep treading water as long as it did.
That's why you have to mod existing games to get what you want.>>736112906
>>736113107I don't think anyone gives a shit about the microbikini part. They just succumbed to the same thing other MMOs did, lack of interesting content and updates.
>>736112989One is a conscious choice by the player to express themselves in a certain way, the other is a design decision made by the dev that the player has no control over. Not the same thing at all.
>>736112860Even Japanese FAILURE MMOs are better than western MMOs. as a matter of fact, does any even exist outside of WoW lmao?
>>736113246Guild Wars 2, and it's actually pretty popular. Certainly more popular than something like Lost Ark or Black Desert.
>>736113107You're a fucking retard and don't know any women. They like to dress up in real life and guess what, most of the time if they actually get into a game where it's an option, they do it there, too. Mind you I'm sure the culture discourse of the last decade has changed things for some but it certainly used to be the fucking case, but what hasn't the last decade fucked up.
>>736113180people memed about Elins in micro bikini's, but not a single person complained or was outraged enough to say remove it from the game. Everyone had atleast 1 Elin alt.
>>736113321You mean that game that went ultra coomer gooner in order to just put the game on life support? That adds to my point actually.
>>736113378>Everyone had atleast 1 Elin alt.That was because classes were being locked to Elins. The entire game began to revolve around the little fuckers because gooners kept whaling to dress them up.
>>736113321>more popular than Lost Ark or Black DesertProbably not true. Its hard to say for sure, but GW2's pop numbers have never really been very high.
>>736110869This looks so fucking gay, like a parody of a game, one of those fake games in a tv show where one of the characters have a bad video game addictionAh yes, you guys finally figured it out. Not having naked women in video games is whats ruining video games, not that fact that you aged out of your only hobby like a 15 year old whinning about why riding a toddlers tricycle isnt as exciting as it was when he was 4.
>>736113354Dressing up is not the same thing as dressing down, anon.>>736113474>Guild Wars 2>Ultra goonerNiggawat
>>736113492>That was because classes were being locked to Elins.pffft yeah sure that's the reason hahahahahahahahaha who the fuck do you think you're kidding?
>>736111658>Devs have been giving their fanbases the middle finger so they can get loans>Loans that they can't get back if their fanbases stop giving them moneyBig think.
>>736113523>This looks so fucking gay, like a parody of a game, one of those fake games in a tv show where one of the characters have a bad video game addictionNever seen such thing. Do you have any examples?
>>736113523>Naked women are gay projecting.>Not having naked women in video games is whats ruining video games,Yes, also not gatekeeping normalniggers like you who hate yourself and your penis (mutilated)
>>736113492thats bull shit anon and you know it. the only class that was Elin only was Reaper and Ninja. Elins just got special treatment and got class unlocks that use to be exclusive (like gunner and brawler), but there were only 2 Elin only classes in the game.
>>736113515I play the game fairly actively and there is never a shortage of people in the hub cities nor is there ever any trouble getting players for content. There are also routinely trains running around the WvW maps, in multiple instances.
>>736113523>Not having naked women in video games is whats ruining video gamesIt's specifically too many women in game dev and they don't like men having something to look at so they refuse to cater to it. That's all it is, ugly bitches ruining male spaces.
>>736113523TERA is still a fun game, I play on a private server. They don't make nor support TERA anymore, and when it gets posted retards like you shout "IS THAT.. A NAKED WOMAN???? AAAAAA ANITA SAAAAAAVE MEEEEEE I THOUGHT WE GOT RID OF THAT SO I COULD DIE FOR ISRAELLLLL"
>>736110869You can, they just don't want to make them because it upsets trannies.
>>736113767What I don't get about his post is that he says it resembles fake games seen in movies and TV shows. I have never seen any examples of them featuring girls like this.My guess is that it's either a bot or a schizo.
>>736113523That entire first sentence reeks of legitimate mental retardation. Also, prob written by actual faggot incel hands for not liking women.
>>736113523>wah wah I hate video games>westoid trannyslop comic imageWhy are you here
>>736113723idk what this game is, but it made me realize how good of a game DokeV is going to be holy SHIT. Cant wait for that game.
>I want my in-game avatar to be a scantily clad woman and a huge slut>But those other people who do not want that are trannies
You know what i find insanely interesting when it comes to this subject? straight/non ugly women never complain about sexy females in video games, its always men or sexually unattractive females complaining about it. very curious...
>>736114181Do you play a male as your main char? yes or no.
>>736114085sid the science kid
>>736113923yeah fake video games in movies and TV shows always a resemble a cheap knockoff of CoD or DOOM or something
>>736114226Non-ugly women do not play videogames, or play them for social credit.
>>736114085eyes are creepybut maybe they're doing that on purpose kinda like how the animation team for Ben10 changed their designs to make Gwen less sexy
>>736114226>menperformative men, the "sneaky fuckers" men
>>736114348this, they get way more dopamine from getting attention from hot guys IRL
>>736114274All of the characters that are supposed to be a digital representation of me are male because I have no desire to be a femoid.
>>736114348Cope, you know deep down inside its not true and never will be true.
>>736114463Go ahead, show me a single conventionally attractive female that plays videogames purely for fun, without getting money or attention out of it.
>>736114274Depends>Game has romanceMale character>Game has no official romance but cute girls I can headcanon I romancedMale character>Game has neither and a bad character creatorMale character>Game has neither and a good character creatorFemale character
>>736114546My sisters are good-looking and they played games. Not a lot but they played them.
>>736114438>All of the characters that are supposed to be a digital representation of me are male>translated to "I only play males"we got our answer then, thanks.
>>736114690>past tense
>>736114724Yes? Why would I ever play AS a female?
>>736114735Yeah they're mothers now, they don't have time. Even so, one was playing a game last time I had a video call with them.
>>736114546how about you go outside and get a gf anon? just because you cant find one doesnt mean no one else can. big (You) problem.
>>736114951You're dodging the question. If you claim that your GF is attractive and plays videogames, let's see her then. As well as a screenshot of her steam library.
>>736112054The problem is that you are driving this.
>>736114787>blatantly ignores the default sexualization of male characters in vidyaThanks for proving my point again. we know what you are
>>736113723Is that mabinogi mobile?
>>736115082It's not about sexualization, it's about not wanting to be represented by the opposite sex. That's that real tranny shit, to voluntarily play as the opposite sex and to be represented to other people playing the game as such.
>>736115063>looks cool to drive>looks fun to drive>it is fun to drivewhats the problem anon? do you really care that much about being laughed at that you wont let yourself have fun doing stupid stuff?
>>736115159>admitting to wanting to stare at a buff male with his chest and abs out for 1000 hoursThanks for proving my point yet again. Personally, as a straight male, if im gonna look at something for 1000 hours id rather it be tits, thighs, and ass thanks.
>>736115281Based logic and thinking actually anon. idk why people self insurt as a buff male instead of just getting off their fat asses and going to the gym to actually look like that irl.
>>736115281>His gaze is drawn to the ass and abs of a male character while playing instead of focusing on the game happening around the characterUh-oh... someone just slipped.
>>736115416>His gaze is drawn to the ass and abs of a male characterNice try, but I dont play male chars anon. Too ugly and cringe to look at.
>>736112054Zamn Frieren looks like that?!
>>736115516So you are a male that exclusively chooses to represent himself digitally as a female. I bet you're already thinking about getting on HRT.
>>736110869Why do you AGP troons talk like this is base game material instead of saying your faggot ass spent hundreds of dollars to gooks to wear thongs?
>>736115281exactly this.
>>736115281If a game cannot hold your attention and all you have to do is to look at your character, that's a shit game.
>>736115635>>736115516You both are severely mentally ill.
>male character>furry female party member(s)game time
>>736115516>>736115281nah we see you faggots erping in chats with other men because you think you are the girl
>>736115903screenshot steam library or your opinion goes straight into the garbage where it belongs
>>736115179>looks cool to driveIf you have agp, sure.
>>736116048Too big to screenshot all of it
>>736116030I only Erped with women tyvm. I know because i also had cam sex with them on MSN. Im guessing Zoomers wont know what MSN is nowadays tho will they? back then, we didnt have onlyfans sluts or cam sluts (except live jasmine i guess). So females that slutted out in vidya were actual sluts willing to slut it out for free on cam. CRAZY concept i know. Your generation ruined a good thing.
>>736113523that description is how I feel about crimson desert actually
>>736116373lollmao even
>>736116314what a bitch out screenshot lmao
>>736110869There are plenty of these on patreon, and they have about as much gameplay as shown here as well.
>>736114846I wasn't even that anon I was just shitposting. I'm glad your sisters became mothers, at least I hope they are good ones. The future is looking bleak.
>>736115142dunno, saved it from the last /v/ thread I saw with Elins in it
>>736113523>naked women looks gayif you’re going to complain at least take two seconds to form an independent thought
>>736116435Well what are you hoping to find? Chances are I might have it since I have almost a thousand games.
>>736116373>MSNhahahaha wtf are you talking about gramps
>>736115281I love playing this game because I get to run around as a little red riding hood wolf girl :3
>>736116650sex, i know you dont understand it, but please try to understand.
>>736116453>There are plenty of these on patreonWhere? i dont see any. show em.
>>736114951>Stop playing video games and get a gf chudliterally that image about the evolution of gaming
>>736116690>little red riding hood wolf girlDoes that mean little red riding hood and the wolf... yknow
>>736110869Simple: Cis men aren't allowed to pay 60-70USD once for a lifetime experience/product that drives their sexual desires, that kind of service is reserved to a subscription model like OF.
>>736116650at one time Microsoft was based enough to provide services people would actually want to use. Including tons of free games + free matchmaking when games were charging for the privilege. that's just a distant memory of UNC GRAMPS now (the gramps of uncs)
>>736118086This is why they hate Korean games
>>736115179Looks cool, but compared to any other car, it can't do anything, just pretend that you are driving a real one. I saw gameplay of the game, it is straight garbage, with auto-walk and auto-grind while you jerk off to the characters
>>736110869Why can't you have lewd shit in vidya? It all started when the puritans came aboard the Mayflower and landed at Plymouth rock. They believed in insane chastity and their punishments for falling out of line were horrific. The average Europeans shunned and hated them, leading them to flee to this hellhole continent full of tornados, hurricanes, frigid winters, frightening beasts like grizzly bears, polar bears and wild mountain lions. These individuals shaped and molded this continent and influenced it as further settlers came, they had to put up with this mind infestation the puritans were afflicted with. Their power grew on this new continent as they began conquering its natives and its wilds, and so...
Off-topic but which one was the build of Operation Lovecraft that had the loli? I'd like to download that one because they removed iher in later builds.
In the West, 90%+ of women sell their pussy for money. By letting men have fun, you are greatly diminishing their ability to profit.
>>736110869Unless there is sex involved what the fuck is the point?
>>736111915>I dont know how the industry survives thenBy laying off half their employees so the company can stay afloat
>>736115903What if the game has no characters but cars/planes as the player
>>736110869Because you have to increase the demand for onlyfans
Like what? Trash for trannies who don't even like videogames? You will find plenty of it in the west, especially among the WEGs.
>>736117970nah it's just a cute costume, her race is wolf-people
>>736118792One would still hope that the attention of the player lies in trying to keep the car on the road/the plane in the air and not gawking at the model.
>>736115281>I am so straight that I am incapable of looking at a man and have to scream how STRAIGHT I am because I love TITS and PUSSY and PORNPathetic.
>>736112390Western devs have never created something like that. They do sometimes make cute girls, but they're usually in non-games.
>>736110869I personally prefer a happy medium between microbikinis and western uglification.
>>736118583Chastity is a good thing and modern Americans do not believe in it, so what the fuck are you talking about?
>>736119050They do when they make WEGs. Clearly that's the kind of shit the tranny faggot OP is whining about.
>>736119050Yeah man bikini armor and shit never existed so true
>>736112792Slivanus and Alexstraza were both in skimpy armor ay first (Sil after the change from the banshee model) and there are a ton of other early female NPCs like Whitemane and the defias chick>>736112863No one made a fuss over and saw Tera as a "pedo game", most people focused more on the Castanics>>736113107Tera died because it wasn't WoW and people suck at combat when you have actual hitboxes instead of tabtargeting
>>736119325If you think this is even slightly comparable to the OP, I don't know what to tell you.
>>736117846Villain Simulator, Wild Life, Fallen Doll, I guess you could count Subverse but that one just has canned animations.>but they are are early-access-bullshit that you need to pay a monthly subscription to playYeah, and what do you think all the gacha and MMOs are, that you keep drooling over?
>>736119502It was done for the same reasons, someone thought it was hot and figured others would tooThe only difference is subjective taste behind it
>>736119664Yeah, the difference being that there is a modicum of taste involved in the design of Whitemane, so that she is at the very least a believable part of the world and location she inhabits. The korean dolls just clash with their surroundings because the only consideration in their design has been "what makes pp the big pp".
>>736119873She isn't believable, no othe woman in the Scarlet Crusade dresses like her.It's because the west, or at least the USA, was really into high cut leotards. Lots of western artists back the would lots of sexual art, and even porn, with high cut leotards and people, nerds, would buy said art to jerk off too.
>>736120129>back then*>draw* lots
>>736120129No other woman in the scarlet crusade is the High Inquisitor. It makes sense to design her differently to denote her special status.I do concede that there is an element of sex appeal that has for sure gone into her design, but it isn't the only thing that was considered. That's the vital difference between her and these korean designs.
>>736110869Not enough ass jiggle 3/10
>>736120393She's part of a religious order, she should be showing less skin, not more, as a higher ranking member. The SCs are zealots too, fanatical even. It was purely done because it was sexy and only because it was sexy, it fitting in wasn't important.
>>736118884This I dont get this obsession with characters Resident evil fans do the same thing just constantly drooling/talking about the chars 24/7 instead of gameplay Thats how you know a game is shit>>736115903 True
>>736120562Religion does not automatically mean puritanism. And if it was done purely for sex appeal, they wouldn't have even bothered to give her the Scarlet Crusade colors, the hat or anything to make her look the part she is supposed to play, they would have stuffed her in a microbikini to maximize the amount of bare skin and her animations would have been altered from the regular human female animations to emphasize her assets.None of this was done though, because designing her wasn't purely about sex appeal.
>>736120785None of the other Light following groups had high ranking woman dressed like her, and the SC is just a group that splinter off of another group anyway.>micro bikniIt was the mid 00s anon, people weren't into micro bikinis and shit back then. It's almost like things that people like change over time but the drive behind them doesn't. And they wouldn't waste the time to give unique animations back then ether.
>>736111915>Lost Ark got so much shit for censoring specialist that even Amazon had to reverse the decision and even announce in a YT video interview that they are fully uncensoring them.What? Havent played that game in a while, you telling me i need to reinstall?
>>736112424dungeon fighter is successful
>>736121318By what metric? Not being defunct?
>>736121423yeah..pretty much. it survives by sheer will and sexy people
is this lost ark?if not what is the name
>>736110869women are not objects, CHUD!
>>736110869>Nigger assWhat are you talking about, the west is full of those, just look at GTA 6 being the prime example, after all that's the taste of blacks and americans
>>736120785Anon there are exactly two reasons for a religious woman to be scantily clad:1. It's a sex cult (also see #2).2. The devs wanted a sexy girl in the game.In any other situation nobody is going to take the whore-priestess seriously.
>>736118589So nobody knows?
people accept that beauty sells, literally any well adjusted well person wants to become handsome or pretty, and use make-up, cosmetics or whatever elseit then is something to even question when pretty shit are put into games?it is all same lol
>>736110869You know the answer.
somebody tell name of game
>>736110869You should be the change you want to see in the world and make such a game, and then you should see how many people want to pay for it.
>>736111734Gee I wonder what visuals can contribute to a VIDEO game experience. Yes I'm aware that presently the most sexualized video games tend to suck at the latter aspect, not that there's any reason that that needs to be the case.
>>736121924>any well adjusted person wants to become handsome or pretty, and use make-up, cosmetics or whatever elseYou're mega-gay if you put anything but water and soap on your face as a man.
>mobile slopNor even a real game.
>>736122036it isn't a real game anonAI generated
>>736121318100 players is succesful now? The game is barely alive
>>736122559but its alive nonetheless
>>736121668women and men are objectively objects, they are not concepts
>>736118589>I'd like to download that oneIsn't the game online only with only like 2 versions cracked, last one being several years old? Either that one has it or you're just shit out of luck, but I'll try to look into it since it interests me too anonHer name is Galatea, right? Looks like she was removed all the way back in 2022 according to faggots, but there's Mina which looks like another short character (not as flat but IIRC you had breast sliders for all girls in the cracked version so not a problem, unless it's capped)Also, the game is just another WEG with two meaningless updates per year that's never getting out of beta, I hope you're aware of that,
>>736122737Alive is not the same as successful, though.
>>736111915>Lost Ark got so much shit for censoring specialist that even Amazon had to reverse the decision and even announce in a YT video interview that they are fully uncensoring them.Source?
>>736122839Yeah I'm already aware about this game, played it a couple of years ago. I found the 0.4.9 version and downloading rn. I don't think this one has Galatea tho, still looking for the number of that version.
>>736122919after 20 years, thats a success in my book
>>736110869>Under the height of consentNon-safe horny gets less publisher money.
>>736116690based endfield enjoyer
>>736111326Those animations are retarded.
>>736110869These kind of games come from countries where porn is banned. Just go watch porn.
>>736113209Designers aren't allowed to express themselves? Just pick another character or game lad
>>736110869uhh could i get a soooooouuuuurce
>>736115159>it's about not wanting to be represented by the opposite sexYou think like a faggot. You're not the vidya character. You are yourself. A faggot.
>>736124628game chosun
>>736124628HiT2
>>736124628darude sandstorm
>>736110869>explainPayment entities want anything that men like to be removed from every piece of media.Games were an easy target.Then the other big corporations joined and started to buy big stocks inside game companies.Now they pretty much control those companies and are forcing them to do it or face legal issues.This is the reason why western media went to shit, including comics and movies. It's all the same reason.Most asian studios are still owned by asian conglomerates but they are slowly being bought out. This happened to Square Enix a while ago, Forspoken and all the western shilling they are doing is direct cause of these western companies buying parts of them and telling them how to make the games.TLDR. Western influence and elites with big money are pushing this everywhere. Why they are doing it? who knows, some say conspiracy, others say global reset, but nobody really knows the exact reason, we just know they are doing it.
>>736127321jewish influence*But them and the west are one and the same, since they control all of the financial institutions of those countries.
>>736110869Because>korean MMONiggers made stellar blade then peaced out to do more gacha and mmos.
>>736110869Game?
>>736119637NONE of those games have OPs pic related kyojiri pettanko anon. Why are you baiting your shill games?
>>736110869What game is this ?
>>736127921>>736128328dude
>>736127921>>736128328its called sex with kiki tales 2.
>mobile>nexon>slop gameplayreally anons? really?
>>736129085really what
>>736128328>>736127921lineage2m: HITting kiki's womb2 raven2
>>736129085nexon is great. they made so many good mmos
>>736129448>madekey word here
>>736113107There's a huge market for sexy girl characters but I agree that OP webm looks like shit and would only appeal to gooners with no standards. Stellar Blade is a 7/10 and the lead is pretty mid overall, but it's a better example of having an overtly sexualized character that doesn't come across as totally stupid.
For that anon looking for the kiki dump. Here you go. "Kyojiri"https://files.catbox.moe/39l04d.rarhttps://files.catbox.moe/fokhkk.rar
>>736111145gameplay > aesthetics
>huge ass twin braids all the way down to her thighs>ZERO physicsActual literal garbage. How do you make a shit ass game with fuck all gameplay as autobattle autowalks you to autoget the next drop of boar ass so the eye candy of seeing your character moving is all you fucking get and you can't even make the hair jiggle?? Take that gook shit out of my face and stay go.
>>736132268>stay gokek
>>736131336hey, why are my gpu fans suddenly so loud
>>736131336thanks anon but I thought you meant you had new stuff then that hadn't been shared previously. too much boobs and the nipples look kind of weird.
>>736133953the creator seemed to like big breasted lolis. I'm not one to judge
>>736110869Isn't this from a mobile game that we have here in the west?
>>736113246WoW is probably the least relevant of the current active western mmos.
>korea is the last place where erotic designs get no flak>but they all have disgusting emotionless korean plastic facestruly a monkey's paw
>>736134826It makes a good filter for people like you
>>736110869Indie devs be making shit like this all the time, AAA is just stuck in bureaucratic hell. Also seems like people who like to draw boobs go to Patreon now, not join studios like the 90's
>>736136029>Indie devs be making shit like this all the time,Me when I lie
>>736136029its more profitable but theres less quality as a result
>>736124757Even if you do not self insert, the character is still a representation of you to the other players of the game. You choose to appear female to others, and that's trannoid behavior.
>>736136180That's capitalism for you. If you don't like more profit for less, then you can go and fuck with your communist friends.
>>736136585isnt bitching about and not buying low quality shit (vs buying the good shit) how capitalism delivers better products?
>>736121992It's really funny that some retard with as much validity as phrenology mindbroke them into exclusively targeting media instead of reality out of the insane belief that art creates reality.
>>736121992MGS2's whole meme spiel and the reality of it already kills such a often parroted and vapid statement. You repeat something untrue enough and it becomes reality if you get enough people to believe in it, you see it right here in /v/.
>>736119873>Yeah, the difference being that there is a modicum of taste involved in the design of Whitemane,*Your tastes Because a sign of autism is the inability to understand that you're not the only observer in the universe.
>>736110869There's no "game" here. It's essentially an idle clicker.
