which predatory mechanic is the worst?
objectively gacha and it isn't even close
>>736176506easily dailies for me
FOMO, followed by (overpriced) DLC.All the other shit is bad but not nearly as much.
>>736176574This>spend $20 for a 10 pull on a banner where you have a 3% chance of a good unit and half of that (1.5%) is the banner unit>but at least you can spark after 200 pulls ($400)
Battle pass.
>>736176506grindslop is fine if it's not accompanied by the other ones
>>736176506Depends on the game, as a whole gacha and battle passes. I play some gachas as a guilty pleasure and even i recognize that the practices are fuckin devious.
>>736176680>spend $20Why would you spend on a gacha? They're free. At most a sane person will throw a $5 monthly at the game if they want to support it.
>>736176506I hate Fomo the most. It should only be present in mmos, if that, because that's live service the genre and is online only, but if game has SP component then fomo shit has no place.
Lorepill me on the schizo OP and deer thing
>>736176506roblox
>>736176506FOMO
>>736176506DLC everything else there is optional and usually involves the ability to access whatever you want for free. 70$ games releasing with 20$ seasonpasses and 30$ of not included in said pass DLC is niggerish. The rest of the things listed are fine.
>>736176506All of them together(basically gacha).
Battle Pass>it's paid content, but you have to work to earn it>it's earned content, but you don't get skimped on if you don't pay>it comes with an expiration date and you're expected to keep buying itThey made a mechanic designed to dick over every side of the fence.
Dailies and FOMOGacha is bad too, but the worst part about gacha games isn't just the gacha, but the fact that they enslave you with dailies and FOMO to keep you playing
>>736176506Without FOMO a lot of these mechanics become less shit, FOMO is the worst one.
Gacha, because the entire game is warped around it. EVERYTHING leads back to it, and there’s always something making you wish you had just one more thing from it.Dailies are probably the least effective because if you miss one, the spell is broken and it’s harder to return.FOMO actively keeps me away from games, I don’t know why the industry loves it so much.>yooo you should play Super Slop Z there’s this cool event going on great time to join!>>Neat, what’s that armor/character/ship/whatever?>Oh that was a limited time thing that’s never coming back.And then I check out and never give it a second glance.
>>736176870What
>>736176506I've probably spent the most money on DLC and the most time on gacha. Basically it's a point of pride for me to grind stuff out F2P if it's an alternative. I like that subscriptions are so ubiquitous now that they aren't even part of the image.
>somehow limbus filled all these bracketsDoes that mean they are shit?
>>736176506yes
>>736176506Gacha >>>FOMO > Grindslop > Dailies > BP > DLC
>>736176506noneonly braindead retards fall for shit like this and I dont give a flying fuck what happens to braindead retardsmilk them all you want
Do you guys think we should come up with some more up-to-date term than "p2w/pay-to-win"? pay to win is obviously cancer, but it's too easy to deflect from another cancer by saying "well yeah it's a dogshit game but at least it doesnt have pay to win!!!" as if there arent other ways to make an egregiously shitty productI've started saying "hostile game design" but i feel like there's a catchier way to get across what I'm thinkingyou know those mechanics that the dev only puts in to make you miserable because they know you'll spend money if you think it'll fix it
>>736177243When OP posted his first ever thing it was some deer monster and deer girl with "which one do you want in a dating sim" or whatever and SCP troons started going feral. He reposted it a dozen more times before drawing other OPs like this one but even though they're different some still had a filename like "cute deer girl"
>>736176506From worst to best:>GachaDishonest (You don't know what you'll get)P2W (Gachas are almost always the main form of progression and getting stronger in a game)Essentially no upper limit to how much you can whale (You can potentially spend thousands of dollars and still have more to gain from a gacha)All progression centers around the gacha (If you don't gacha, you will get nowhere)>Battle passHonest (At least you know what you'll get)P2W (Usually gives you blatantly useful things required for normal progression)Questionable upper limit (Depends on the game but it's usually pretty cheap but time limited, so this is like a subscription)Only partially attached to progression (If you don't get it, you can still progress, just slower)>DailiesHonest (You see it right away)Not usually associated with P2W but can be (Pay 2 skip dailies can be a thing)Often heavily tied to progression>FOMOAt best just an ignorable marketing tactic, but can be associated with p2w (Ex. You need to grind for 1 month in 2 weeks which is impossible, but you can pay money to grind 2x faster which makes it possible)>DLCNot inherently bad in concept, it can just be exploited by scummy developers. If you lump microtransactions in here then it becomes a lot worse.>Grind"slop"Meaningless buzzword because how grindy a game is entirely depends on the game. Chances are that if the grind is bad it's not even the grind that's a problem, but it's a symptom caused by the game trying to push another issue instead. For example making the grind horrible to push you towards playing the gacha or microtransactions instead. If the game JUST has grinding then it's just a normal part of game design, and just like anything else in a game's design it can be tuned well or poorly.
>>736176506>Grindslop - imagine a single item taking the same time to farm as beating a whole JRPG>Dailies - artificial playercount padding (same as above but less drastic)>FOMO - hate starting a game and seeing that cool cosmetics are no longer obtainable>Gacha - mostly due to coming with a "no balance patches" clause, most gacha are no longer Maplestory tier bad>Battle Pass - not inherently bad, Deeprock has a "permanent" battlepass, so does Helldivers>DLC - you can just not buy itI do not mind spending if the game is good.
>>736176574The problem with gacha is that it's always packaged with dailies, grindslop, and fomo.
>you know those mechanics that the dev only puts in to make you miserable because they know you'll spend money if you think it'll fix itCattle prods
>>736177349It's all of those, but since it's so much less than the industry standard that we just ignore it for most part.
Fuck, >>736177791 for >>736177549
>>736177349yes because we live in a black and white world full of checkboxes to be angry about
All of them, microtransactions shoulnt exist and every dev that adds them should be lined up against the wall and shot.
>>736176506Grinding.
Dailies can eat a fucking dick, same with battle passes to a slightly lesser extent.
>>736176506You forgot timegated stuff. Only letting you do X once a week, or having to come back after 24 hours to progress. Stamina systems, raid lockouts, and shit like that.And no, it's very different from dailies, which are content that you're incentivized to do, rather than a fuck you touch grass middle fingers.
>>736177791i actually quite like this phrase for it, thanks
>>736176506Grindslop + FOMO
>>736176506>Play factorio with 100x science in space age DLC>Fills both grindslop and DLC (which is same price as same game, never goes on sale)>still in my mind feels like a significantly better use of my time than any game that even has a speck of a gacha systemFor me those two shouldn't be on the table, the other 4 are that much worse
>>736177993I do agree this is huge cancer but I think it's mostly classifiable as somewhere between daily cancer and grindwall cancer, it at least hits both parts of player abuseprobably mostly a problem in mmo games i feel like
>>736176506Cigarettes. Why aren't they illegal again?
All of them. It's like asking what color of poop is the worst to find floating in your soup.
>>736176506Do lootboxes fall under gacha?
Sorry I'm older than 30 and had to do a quick edit.
>>736178119No, it's like dealing with mosquitoes while riding a bike.
>>736178124personally I would've rephrased gacha as "gambling" to obviously include both, which I think are similarly dogshitat least lootboxes are usually just for mtx slop whereas gacha usually is gambling for all progress? but they're both dogshit, not like i need to see one as marginally better
>>736176680>not saving your pulls until you have enough to guarantee the character you want once her banner shows up.Sounds like someone needs their instant gratification.
>>736177349limbus lacks dlcbut yes
>>736176506There are two completely different things there. DLC, gacha, and battle passes are for monetization. FOMO, dailies, and grinding are the actual predatory mechanics
>>736176506Gacha nearly always come with FOMO, grindslop, battle pass and dailies.
>>736177153thisa battlepass with no expiration date just becomes a little spoon of dopamine for your lizard brain, you complete a couple of things in game and a piece of candy drops out as a sense of progression, even though its just mostly cosmetic fluff that you already paid for.once it's something that goes away and you have to login daily or lose out, then it's a straight up kike scam.
>>736176506I fucking hate dailies.
>>736177220This lines up with my feelings pretty well. Even gacha-style games that I have somewhat enjoyed were tainted by that "if only I had one more X" mindset that eventually poisons my mentality for the whole game and kills the fun. Guess that's better than successfully hooking me.
>>736178265This, I'd change them out for powercreep and timegates.
In order:>sports gachaThe king of evil. You pay through the nose if you want to be relevant in the core mode, and it's all worthless in just a year.>grindslopEverything bad about gacha but worse. You end up feeling forced to pay because it's the only way you can get back to enjoying the main game. You aren't getting anything but a short reprieve.>fomoLiterally preys on your fear and anxiety. Self-explanatory.>dailiesSubtly perfidious in how they enslave you to a game.>standard gachaDepends on its level of grindsloppiness. If it's not essential for progression, then you're just gambling for "extra" stuff. Still very predatory, though, especially for gotta-catch-em-all whales.>dlcIt depends. It's hardly unreasonable for companies to demand more money for follow-on content (somebody's gotta pay for this shit), but when you're getting nickel-and-dimed to simply restore the game to its intended experience, it's bullshit.>battle passZero issues whatsoever for a free-to-play game. Less defensible in a game that has to be purchased to play.
>>736176506i dont play games with these, im not brown
>>736176506Lootboxes
>>736176506We always talk about shit that sucks but never when any game does something good. That's why everything keeps getting worse all the time.
>>736178701>You pay through the nose if you want to be relevant in the core mode, and it's all worthless in just a year.I'm maybe ten years departed from yearly sports games, is the online ultimate team shit really the core focus now?
>>736176506Gacha games
>>736177778The problem with gatcha is that it costs money.
>>736176506Based on games I actually quit over them>FOMOOh you need this endless flask of dodge that's available for one week per year? Fuck you. You like that helmet? Kill yourself. It sucks if you're both a new player or a returning player. The game at this point expects you to be a full-time player.>grindslopI quit OSRS because everything takes 5 times as long as it should. No fucking way they thought grinding a bow for 100 hours was a good idea. Repeating boring motions with zero novelty to them is deadly. Nothing shatters the illusion of fun more than grinds.>GachaEven ignoring "the" gacha games, I hate all forms of "equipment enhancement lottery", and I hate cosmetics being locked behind random gachas that half the MMOs do nowadays.>DailiesSimilar story to grindslop, you one day realize you're no longer having fun and the only thing keeping you are the dailies. But that's more of a symptom than a cause, without dailies you would've quit even faster.>Battle PassIf we isolate the FOMO part and assume the items will not be gone forever, who cares.>DLCof all things, I think this is the best and fairest business model, it can go full retard but when done correctly, it's just nice
>>736176506Gacha games usually have all of the above besides DLC
>play h game>lose to see scenes
Grinds and DLC are technically the worst because they're the only things you can't realistically ignore when playing.
>>736176506I think FOMO is the driving factor behind the most toxic aspects of the rest, so I'd have to say FOMO.>A battle pass without a timer is just occasional bonus rewards you collect as you do shit in the game>Dailies without a timer let you grind as much as you need>So long as your grindslop goal isn't on a timer you can just chip away at it when you want instead of being forced to do a certain minimum amount each day>Gachas never become good but they're a lot less of a headache when you're deep in, still don't have the character you want, but have infinite time to scrounge up currency for them.
>>736176506Worst to least bad:1. FOMO2. dailies3. battle pass4. gacha5. DLC (microtransactions)(POWER GAP)99. DLC (expansion packs)100. grindslopAnything that encroaches on the player's real-life time (like FOMO events and dailies do) has to be the worst of the worst.It goes so far beyond merely requesting money from the player, it constitutes a personal attack on the player himself. Any developer that does this deserves to be raped by Satan for eternity, and I for one will certainly not be playing their game.Grinding is basically a non-issue and it's borderline comical to include it among the others.
>>736176506>DLC is a flat rate for extra content acquired immediately>Battlepass is dailies + grind slop + FOMO>Gacha is dailies + grind slop + FOMO>Difference between battlepass and gacha is that battlepass has no gambling element and is a linear unlockGacha I would say.I miss when DLC was the biggest problem we had.
>>736177270subscriptions are the worst. gamepass is worse than battlepass. n.b. i have no idea what battlepass is, image makes it look like pay to win dlc.
>>736176506Not listed: Powercreep
>>736180648Battle passes are things like pic related if you've ever played Fortnut or something.It's a set of linear unlocks you can get through playing the game within a limited period of time. There will be a free version, often only containing gold/materials and a couple cosmetics, and a paid version which is more of both of those.There's even a wiki for it apparently https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_pass>Longcat captcha didn't accept long cat is longGay
Most of this shit works in tandem with the other. Gacha only works if shit like FOMO is there, otherwise the temptation isn't there.
>>736180993this is a little too heady for me rn, but it seems like microtransactions?
>>736181332Yeah it just a bunch of grindy FOMO bullshit with a microtransaction element
I have a personal hatred for dailies.Like even my favorite games ever, aren't really something I'd be eager to play EVERY SINGLE DAY for years. Insane that some people actually do that with shit FOMO games.I also think having to remember to log in everyday just takes a toll on your mental in a way that other FOMO shit doesn't. If you are logging in daily it means the game is something you think about EVERY SINGLE DAY and that takes a meaningful amount of your routine. Even if you say "it's just 10 minutes bro" you are spending way more of your time thinking about the game, trying to remember if you did your dailies, and stopping to do what you were doping just to accomplish that.
>>736176506fomo, because it's the only thing that enables all the others to be predatory in the first place.battle passes rely on fomo, dailies rely on fomo, grindslop is practically its own genre of game that people willingly seek out (diablo 2 for example) but still becomes predatory when paired with fomo, and so on.
gacha has the potential for most abuse, especially it isn't really regulated well or inspected by a gambling commission or similar type of groupdailies guarantee a certain amount of time is taken from youbattle pass/grindslop scale rewards with time spentDLC cost money but atleast I get what I paid forFOMO can be ignored by most people, easily
>>736177349Yes. They should of just made LoR2 instead of a gacha
>>736176506FOMO. Any of the others can be navigated fine if they don't come packaged with FOMO strategies.Anyone who answers gacha in particular is retarded and gives away that they have no awareness of money.
I just had a great ideaWhat if we had a gacha but the gacha was for battlepasses
>>736176506All should be outlawed, but gacha is the worst of all cause it's the only one that can actually ruin your whole life and put you hundreds of thousands of dollars in debt.
>>736176870https://arch.b4k.dev/v/search/text/scp%20166
