>Wind Waker and Metal Gear Solid 2 got a lot of criticism when they came out, they sold like absolute shit, and yet they were good games.Why do some people act like they're deep-throating these two titles?They're not bad games, but commercially they were a total disaster.Wind Waker launched in an era when 3D realism was what everyone was buying, and fans were dying for a proper sequel to Ocarina of Time or Majora's Mask.Metal Gear Solid 2 had what was probably the most dishonest marketing in gaming history.>B-but meta-narratively speaking...Bro, the ads straight-up sold you a sequel starring Solid Snake. What the fuck did they expect the average player to feel when, ten minutes in, the game basically flips you off and says: FUCK YOU, now your protagonist is Raiden.>People just didn't appreciate them at the time!That's a lie. The people who actually finished the games gave them the credit they deserved back then.The issue with both titles was always, ALWAYS the marketing. Nothing else. They bombed because they sold something the audience at the time simply didn't want. There's no big mystery here.It’s honestly stupid how nowadays people use these two as a retarded fallacy to defend modern disasters like Marathon.
ayo
That everyone hated MGS2 at the time is some kind of weird psyop. People hated Raiden specifically and the way the plot was told (big exposition at the very end) but the game was lavished with praise and adoration. Wind Waker can eat shit though I agree with that.
>>736234275Raiden is more gorey and gruesome than Leon in RE9.
>>736234275Windwaker is shit, mgs2 is great
>>736234275
>>736234275Swing and a miss.
the game did star Solid Snake though, even during Raiden's parts, Snake was the main character. This is what makes games interesting as an art form, there are plenty of ready made easily digestible honestly marketed videogames for you to enjoy, why does everything need to be the same? taking risks creatively doesn't always land, but it makes things interestingwould it really had made a difference if MGS2 sold 12 million copies instead of only 7 million copies by 2004? probably not
>>736234427Accurate. The gritty Tom Clancy feel of MGS1 made it the normie adult male videogame of its generation, the Call of Duty before Modern Warfare took over the world. A lot of people hated Raiden and absolutely didn’t get the story when it was new but it was still popular and people generally liked it.As far as 3D Zeldas go, Wind Waker was correctly identified as having a bad art style and being a bad game. The one that actually unfairly got the shaft was Majora and I’m glad it’s more well loved today. Everything 3D Zelda between Majora and BOTW is varying degrees of bad.
>>736234275>they sold like absolute shitWW is the 4th best selling GameCube game and MGS2 is the 8th best selling PS2 game.
i wish AAA developers just made games look like this again. Then we can have great games pumping out constantly. but then again... we cant because every person in these studios is some sort of fat nigger and nobody normal is working in them
>>736234275Both games are fine, but have issues. WW is blatantly unfinished. MGS2 was when the series inexplicably went from Tom Clancy-esque military futurism to capeshit. It also spent way too much time in the codec, it’s almost an audio drama.
>>736235616>Wind Waker was correctly identified as having a bad art style and being a bad game.Loved when people would write into Nintendo Power saying this and the magazine just replied with the old classic "You haven't PLAYED IT YET you can't judge it!"
>>736234275>>736234628>>736237853sex
>>736234275Wait I thought /v/ liked Wind Waker? What changed?>inb4 /v/ is one personYou know what I fucking mean.
I enjoyed windwaker as a child but replaying it is so boring and it has poor dungeon design. As for mgs2, I'd say it aged extremely well considering the times we live in now
>>736234275>>736234628>>736237853Kojima is the most openly closeted bisexual I have ever seen.
>>736234275The Triforce hunt quest is the most blatant attempt at padding I’ve ever seen in a game.
>>736234628UNFfuck man
>>736234275>>736234628>>736237853Patriots stole this from us
>>736234275Because they're coping and/or probably too young to actually have been there, and received their 00's vidya knowledge from faggot video essayists who say dumb shit for engagement.I remember thinking Wind Waker looked gay as fuck in comparison to Twilight Princess as a kid, so I never gave it a chance. Seeing Link in Soul Calibur II blew me away and really set my expectations for what Zelda should look like going forward .. which, TP wasn't that, but it was significantly closer than Wind Waker.Of course now in retrospect there are a lot of things about Wind Waker I like more, and I don't mind the simplistic aesthetic as much, but it was truly not the right move. I get the feeling it was done because they already had several mobile titles in mind to tie in directly with WW and wanted to have a consistent artstyle between them, but still.As for MGS2, while its true that marketing was the main reason people didn't like Raiden the actual biggest critiques people had at the time myself included was that basically 90% of the game's story didn't matter, only the last bit which featured ginormous exposition dumps explaining why most of what happened didn't matter.It was already hard to care about half the shit going forward after you just spent hours going through annoying underwater segments to rescue Emma only for her to immediately get assassinated by fernando - sorry, Vamp.
