>>736247863
>having to grind
lol retard

FF didn't win in Japan though. Dragon Quest is still as huge as ever (and possibly the only thing that still keeps the shitty company afloat let's be honest), FF is pretty much forgotten.

>>736247863
Grinding is literally only an option for the mentally impaired that need to brute force bosses. Are you less capable than a child, you retard?

>>736247949
>>736247958
It is literally mandatory to grind in the NES games, you autists. You're just proving you haven't played them.

>>736248390
It literally is not, because you can watch footage of it on youtube and challenge runs revolving around being min level exist. So you either didn't play it or are actually retarded. Which is it?

>>736249181
>challenge runs
So you agree with me, I'll accept the concession.

>>736247863
Played the HD remake of this game and while there are some diffculty spikes after like the first few levels you just kazap everything.

>>736249181
lmao retard you just prove his point

>>736249252
Pathetic that you can't criticize something without trying to mislead people. Even more sad that having the last word even when proven wrong is your win condition. I accept your concession.

>>736249332
>>736249252
>It is literally mandatory to grind in the NES games
>here's a video of a guy clearing the games while doing everyone he can to stay as low level as possible
>lmao you proved my point
I'm just gonna assume you're ESL and 70IQ. Goodbye, Pranjeet.

>>736247863
when you play without a guide (crazy concept I know) and have to wander around actually discovering everything organically and figuring out what to do there is little to no grind involved aside from a couple levels at the very start. but when you know exactly where to go because you cheated then yeah, prepare for grinding.

are you fags arguing challlenge runs are not representative or am i missunderstanding sonmething?

>>736249676
I'm confused too. I had no problem beating it on NES and never felt the need to grind. It's literally made for children.

>>736249181
>challenge run
So not what a regular player will ever do. You're lying if you believe you can run from A to B in DQ1 without spending a hell of a lot of time fighting enemies to level up and buy better gear. The games are infamous for it.

>>736250476
i did challenge runs for all my jrpgs even when i was a kid, are you worse at video games than a 10 year old retard, retard?

>>736249676
They still need to level in those runs anyway so you still need to grind to finish the game.

Not to mention those runs aren't first time playthroughs so they already know what to bring for every boss.

>>736250598
That's nice, still a challenge run. Sorry you destroyed your own argument, anon. DQ1 is still a game you're meant to excessively grind in.

>>736250686
>>736250758
are you guys retarded?

>>736250476
>The games are infamous for it.
How clear are we on this? I mean, they are NES games but infamy alone has no meaning. People have been saying that you've to grind on all rpgs, even Pokemon. Technically they are all infamous on this. Even though it's all made up rumors lol. Imagine grinding pokeymon.

>>736250918
No but you are if you think DQ games are beatable without gaining levels and gold.

>>736249181
you have 20iq, max

>>736247951
Dragon Quest is the Sazae san of RPGs

>>736249181
>It literally is not, because you can watch footage of it on youtube
Never change /v/

>>736251456
Dragon Quest is the Wonder Bread of RPGs.

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>>736247863
DQ1 is the chad jrpg
no party
just you, the hero
Against the world
You save the princess
You either carry her home
Or take her with you to kick Dragonlord ass
FF could never

>>736250686
If you think any and all levelling is "grinding" you're unironically a fucking retard

>>736252023
>r*make

>>736247863
test

>>736253275
the remake was good

The only level check in any DQ is when you eventually hit a boss that expects you to have Multiheal

>>736252292
So you point changed from you don't have to grind at all to you only need to grind a little bit but it isn't considered grinding because I said so?

>>736253275
>too poor to afford it
Sad!

>>736255478
Is your ideal version of the game one that has no combat?

>>736255478
Grinding implies you spent extra time to level up, it's not about leveling organically. You can't prevent leveling organically because of the systems involved, but that doesn't mean you're grinding out levels.

>>736256678
No but that has nothing to do with the fact that DQ very much does require grinding to finish.

>>736255478
>grind .a: dreary, monotonous, or difficult labor, study, or routine : the dull grind of office work
Yeah, if I find one enemy in the way to the boss and kill it, leveling up in the process, that's, y'know, playing the game? Grinding is when it's repetitive. So leveling is indeed not grinding.

>>736257468
It is completable without grinding though.

>>736247863
I don't mind a little grinding, it's only a problem when the grind is excessively long. I remember most of the grinding in DQ1 being for gold.

8 > 5 > 3 > 4 > 6 > 7 > 2 > 1
I honestly only remember needing to grind for an extended period of time 4 time in all the games.
1. To get multiheal to fight dhoulmagus
2. To get vocation levels up to defeat the super boss in 6 (the only super boss I fought)
3. The end game grind in 2 against the exploding monkeys.
4. In DQ4 during Maya and Meena's chapter for the lion boss.
I like turn based combat and very rarely run away or take action to lower encounters.

>>736247863
For me it isn't the grinding that annoys me. I find the dull worldbuilding and the actual gameplay mechanics way worse. You have to grind and deal with random encounters in final fantasy too but at least there you can mostly get by with single nukes or auto attacks. In DQ you have such clunky menus to navigate and everything takes forever...

Dragon Quest rules and I hope we get news about part 12 soon, some people on here said may 27th is a significant day so fingers crossed

>>736247863
Yesterday I finished DQ3 as my first DQ game and today I started FF6 as my first FF game. 4 or 5 hours in and I'm not having fun yet. But I didn't have fun with DQ3 until I got to the job change monastery, then I loved the rest of it. So I'll stick with this for a bit longer I guess

>>736258129
7 is depressingly shit to play. I actually get queasy when playing the other games and 7's music is cameo'd due to how painfully boring it was going to yet another shitty island with a shitty story and shitty gameplay. It wouldn't be so bad if there was payoff but there isn't, you did all that progression for the privilege of fighting generic demon Lord no.7

>>736258378
If you don't enjoy ff6, ff5 has great job changes

What's better, having predefined characters like DQ8 and 11 or blank slates with interchangable jobs and weird multiclassing like 3 and 9?

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>>736247863
What's wrong with grinding?
Its pretty much established that DQ1 that the hero grinds a lot, just ask the princess

I'm finishing 8 on 3DS now, it's a fantastic game but I don't love it as much as I want to, I enjoyed 4 and 5 more. Love the characters and fairy tale atmosphere, the story is so-so, a bit above average for DQ. I appreciate the subversion it did for some DQ tropes like getting the godbird. And it's a very funny game. I wonder if part of the reason I don't love it is due to Level-5 developing it, I didn't care much for Ni no Kuni. Not sure if I'll play the post game of 8 now, is it fun?

>>736247863
the first 3 ffs were grindy as shit too specially the first one.

>>736247863
Actually, Dragon Quest won in the end. DQ11 sold more than any post-FF15 Dragon Quest.

>>736258842
If the characters are great then predefined, if not blank one, and since having great characters is hard the best option is to go with blank characters

>>736258842
People get far more attached by default to predefined. It's what most JRPGs like FF or Tales do, and it's a big reason by DQ8 is as beloved as it is.

>>736258842
Having actual characters is almost always better.

>>736257910
>if I find one enemy in the way to the boss and kill it, leveling up in the process, that's, y'know, playing the game
Nobody plays jrpgs that conservatively, not even your low level run trannies on youtube. And a single enemy will never alone level you up unless its a metal slime.

>>736258382
the "sad" tunes in dq7 are great, which is good because nearly all of the scenario endings are depressing.

>>736258378
Character progression for ff6 really only begins with the Magicite system which is a decent bit into the game.
>>736258842
Predefined characters that can be customized into separate unique classes. Sorta like how fire emblem characters have a few options. I haven't played DQ11 but I think that does this sorta with weapons.

>>736259793
The music is fine until you realise how few tracks there are, how often they're reused, and just how fucking long the game is. The tracks play ad nauseam

>>736249181
>It literally is not
Try playing Dragon Quest 2 without grinding. It's an insufferable experience.

>>736247863
i like grinding, its comfy

>>736247863
I recently tried playing DQ3 HD remake and it wasnt so much the grinding but rather the endless fucking random encounters. Every 10 steps im fighting some shitass enemies that are so pathetic I don't even need to use anything other than basic attacks and yet for some reason Im forced to endure constant multiple minute time wasting fights. Game would be infinitely better if it toned down the random encounters by 90% or added an auto resolve option.

>>736249181
I don't care to watch the video, but I have some questions: 1. Does the challenge run depend on good rng in order to work out? 2. How much does it limit your options? Do you have to play in a very specific (read: restrictive) way in order to abuse overpowered tactics to make it even possible? 3. Does the game require the player to have extensive knowlodge of the game prior to playing in order to make this possible? Knowing were overpowered missables are and stuff like that? If the answer to any of these questions is "yes" then your video is a dumb example and for the regular player grinding is still very much mandatory.

>>736249635
So the game is really shit to replay, because in order to not fall behind in levels, I have to run around pointlessly pretending to be clueless in order to grind

>>736247863
>go to second town
>just buy weapon
>go to third town
>just buy armor
>etc.
It's not that hard. The biggest problem is if you insist on getting enough gold to buy every item in ever shop in every town you visit.

>>736247951
>and possibly the only thing that still keeps the shitty company afloat let's be honest
FFXIV is what is keeping the company afloat, not DQ. Have you seen the numbers they pull in? If that game goes without some sort of successor their entire company likely does.

>>736249181
Dude, Dragon Warrior 2 is my #1 favorite game in existence and I'm going to need to call you an idiot. Do you not realize how much grinding it took to even attempt some meme playthrough? That's the biggest possible grind ever
>>736247863
>No wonder Final Fantasy won
It didn't in the NES generation, they didn't even bother translating two of the games because the first flopped. I got my copy from a clearance bin filled with $10 copies. When the 16bit entries came along neither series was grind heavy

You were expected to wander around sorta aimlessly figuring out how to progress so you’d not have to grind. That’s for DQ1-4, anyway. 5 onwards were a lot more straightforward with their progression so there was no grind substitute, you just didn’t to at all. Unless you wanted to fight the superboss in some of them.

The Stigma make grinder is why it is still relevant, unlimited disk fantasy.

>>736247863
Not to mention the lack of cool bosses to fight or graphics for the player characters lmao
FF1 is better than DQ3 btw

>>736247863
except it didn't. Dragon quest XI outsold final fantasy XVI

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>>736260453
To be fair to DQ3, that's a problem with a lot of traditional turnbased jrpgs. I've been playing MS Saga A New Dawn on and off for the past few months and anything that's not a boss is pretty much mindless.

>>736260453
>>736266915
The point, really, is to drain resources and give you a limit on how far you can go before needing to head back to town. Sure, the shit enemies aren't going to threaten you (outside random instakill attacks) but the fact that some hit you and drain some MP or items healing means that you can't just steamroll around the entire world.

DQ3 didn't necessarily do this right, and it has more relevance inside a dungeon than sailing around the overworld, but that's typically the design idea for having weak but constant enemies.

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>>736267347
Although I can see that now that you point it out, I wish they found alternatives. If you're just mindlessly using the basic attack for random encounters, I see that like an FPS game dropping ton of melee enemies in a wide, open area.

>>736268201
I enjoyed DQ2R but I found that to be a big flaw, especially later in the game. The enemies are actually threatening and your main physical attacker has a major weakness in that he has no good multi-target attacks for a decent amount of time, but then you get a boomerang he can actually use and random encounters get a lot easier. Oomph into boomerang hit is way more efficient compared to using magic to blast things down, then it gets even worse when you get Egg On and even the toughest enemies just get murdered by Egg On + Oomph boomerang hits from a hulked out Midenhall. That's not to say offensive magic is useless but that combo is so much cheaper in terms of MP costs and it's so easy to figure out that you rarely feel a need to deviate from it.

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>>736268201
I liked how DQ4DS handled things, where enemy encounters were dangerous but could be trivialized if you buffed up the party defense (Buff spell) and roll thru most regular enemies. But if they got the ambush, then it was a dangerous fight because they'd do a lot of damage on that first round of attacks. It gave the big risk of killing characters without needing to include instakill spells on every enemy. Plus, while Buff was cheap at 2 MP, if you were out wandering around too much or if the Priest needing to spend MP healing people, it could make the way back very dangerous if they fully ran out of MP.

Don't have a DQ4 image handy, so have a DQ3 Mage image instead.

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I'm just about to finish DQ6, I fucking love the grind. Whenever a metal slime shows up I camp there for like an hour

>>736268975
dq4 is based, especially that character that used earrings and would crit twice in one attack

>>736258842
best way is DQ6 where you have the best of both worlds

>>736247863
Final Fantasy is fucking dead lol, what planet do you live on?

>>736249635
nah I was underleveled for the dragon lord in DQ1 without any guides.

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>>736269058
Monks are great and Alena is cute as fuck. Most characters in DQ4 get overshadowed by the dancer/seer twins, but the rest of the cast is great as well.

>>736247863
I beat the game blind in about 5 hours no grind. Got the optional relic too, but forgot the princess.
If you need to grind, you are retarded.

>>736258378
I restarted FF6 multiple times over decades the start of the game is really slow and shitty.
It also takes way too long until you get the main customization system. Before that characters are extremely basic and gimmicky.

>>736247863
>modern DQ game
>autobattle
>autobattle
>autobattle
>autobattle
>autobattle
This franchise is cursed

>>736268975
I like buff spells that are strong/necessary but it's also kinda annoying when it gets to the point where in every battle you gotta prepare the buffs