Is TF2 a hero shooter or a class based shooter? And how does it continue to outlive every modern hero shooter of today?
it's a mercenaries shooter, there are no heros in tf2
Class-based =/= "hero shooter"
>>736297305It has less players than every other popular competitive shooter. If you're gonna be a retarded tranny shill at least fact check first. Even Deadlock in fucking closed alpha has more players than this garbage.
So what's the distinction?Class - multiple people can play as classHero - only one can be chosen per team/game?
>>736297305kino shooter
>>736297523mostly, yeah"hero shooters" tend to try to make each character as unique as possible, often with multiple passive traits and a special ability / ultimateIf TF2 was a hero shooter, every single class would have something equivalent to medic's Ubercharge and scout's double jump
>>736297305The hero name comes from Overwatch taking as much as it can from fucking MOBAs, which call the player characters champions or something instead of just saying characters. TF2 thankfully doesn't have ability cooldowns.
>>736297523Yeah, also being able to change character/class midgame which a lot of hero-shooters don't allow
>>736297305>>736297523Class:>multiple players can play as the same character in the same lobby>character has different gameplay variations (regular Demo vs Demo Knight)>no real "meta" involved Hero:>only one player can play as that character >character has the abilities they come with, no variations >meta is involved
>>736297779*only one player can play as that character per team
>>736297305It's a class-based shooter.Each class has its loadout and things they do well, complemented or adjusted according to your loadout options for each class, but anyone can pick any class they want, and it doesn't try to be super cinematic about it, with things like ultimates and powers and shouts... you play as a merc among other mercs against other mercs, it doesn't treat each class as this super unique thing, despite each class feeling pretty unique, both in terms of gameplay and looks.
>>736297523For me tf2 is a class based shooter because1) like you said multiple people can play as the same character2)there's only been 9 classes, no new characters have been added which you see in hero shooters.3) a bit subjective but tf2 lets u swap gear. Wasn't in at launch but each class gets new gesr they can swap out which lets them change their play style but still falls in the classes general role. Soldier can swap out his secondary so he has more frontline support utility at the cost of losing out on his 1v1 effectiveness, similarly scout can swap his pistol for mad milk to support his teamates at the cost of any mid range damage.
>>736297523By that logic Overwatch wasn't a hero shooter on release (or when playing the no class limits mode) and TF2 is a hero shooter when playing highlander.
>>736297779TF2 has a meta. Really any game does.
>>736297305It's a class-based shooter that had such good characters that its competitors redefined the genre to explicitly focus on characters themselves.
>>736297929>Each class has its loadout and things they do well, complemented or adjusted according to your loadout options for each class, So Deadlock is a class-based shooter?
>>736298371when overwatch had released, TF2 was firmly established as a class shooter by adding gear to swap around, while overwatch never had that.
>>736298484this anon probably says it best.TF2 explicitly had its characters as classes, and it was the official comics and fandom that expanded them into characters... but even then they still were classes.
>>736298495No, because in Deadlock players can't pick the same characters whilst on the same team, and each character is treated as unique, with unique powers and skills.An example of another class-based shooter would be Killzone.
>>736297305TF2 predates the term "hero shooter" which was invented to distinguish other games from TF2
>>736298495No because it's an ASSFAGGOTS, not a hero shooter.
>>736299018>No, because in Deadlock players can't pick the same characters whilst on the same teamSo TF2 isn't a class-based shooters when they run highlander? And Overwatch was a class-based shooter on release or when running the no-limits game mode?>>736298689So TF2 wasn't a class-based shooter on release? Pretty sure it was. And I'm pretty sure ever past team fortress game is also a class-based shooter despite never having loadouts as a feature. Not to mention games like classic Battlefield that features classes but not loadouts.
>>736302747It WAS always a class based shooter, but on release it was one that pushed into a new territory with how individual and iconic its classes were."hero shooter" wasn't even a thing yet, but TF2 was ALMOST a sort of hybrid by accidentIt was still made to be a class shooter and developed further along the lines of a class shooter.Class shooters developed further by adding loadouts, and TF2 was one of them, but after that things sort of split and "classless" shooters like call of duty became much bigger where the loadout was everything.Original team fortress can only be called a class shooter because its classes have no character to them.TF2 pushed the envelope by giving its classes character, and its competition gave birth to character-heavy shooters, aka hero shooters.
>>736297480You're really confused by what outlive means huh
>>736303780No, the OP is the one confused. To outlive something else must have died. All popular modern games are doing better than TF2 could ever dream of.
>>736297305TF2 has certain aspects that are not present in most hero shooters>multiple of the same character can be chosen on the same team>characters rarely have special inherent abilities or stats outside of movespeed and max health>weapons are distinct from characters and give characters their "abilities" (soldier rocket jump and medic ubercharge)>weapons can be changed to augment the character's playstyle, sometimes dramatically>large team sizes of 12 players eachI'd say the two most important differences are the separation of characters and weapons as well as the lack of traditional "press button to do X" abilities.oh and finally,>a casual focus
>>736303994besides overwatch 2 and valorant what other hero shooters are there that HAVENT declined or flopped?
>>736303994Sure, lets ignore the 30000 hero shooters who came out and died in favor of your argumentAnd here you usually love screaming about Concord and Highguard don't you?
>>736304541>that haven't declinedTf2 is 200k players down from it's peak, which is lower then both rivals and ow at its peak. Rivals, deadlock, overwatch all doing better>>736304645Why is it framed as "only tf2 outlived these 3000 games" when they died in the time of other hero shooters as well. OP made a disingenuous post, and I called it out. Why are you getting mad.
>>736303646>Original team fortress can only be called a class shooter because its classes have no character to themIt's was a class shooter because it had classes.
>>736304789>Tf2 is 200k players down from it's peakThat was a spike from bot accounts logging in to claim free rewards.The fact TF2 has never dipped below 50k over a week is a testament to it's longevity, free 2 play or not.
>>736304936>completely ignores the context I said that in, and the context of the post talking about original team fortresssure buddy.
>>736305040There's plenty of other games with the same claim. Even Overwatch has always had hundreds of thousands of CCU, now on steam alone it's beating tf2 despite being an 11 year old game, and having the majority of players on Blizzard client.
>>736305431why do you avoid the original OP label of "hero shooters" and stick to overwatch when you were specifically asked to name shit ASIDE from overwatch?
>>736305667>Y..you can't use the example that proves I'm a retard!!!I already did I named Rivals and Deadlock, but thirdies who are obsessed with Troon Fagass 2 are generally illiterate.
>>736305758I missed that, so lets revise things and eliminate your irrelevant mentions:rivals is a new game not even a year and a half old, and deadlock is not only NOT released, but is looking to be something different from a hero shooter as well.
>>736305991Sure, Rainbow 6 siege, been going for over 10 years, more CCU than TF2 and is a hero shooter. Seethe more tranny.
>>736306165ok so you got one dying game that is a proper hybrid of hero shooters and class shooters...right...very seething right now I guess.All those failed games and you could only name one... most of them tranny games... but I am the tranny.You sure showed me
>>736306309Yea, utterly btfo. Concession accepted. Know your post is your only legacy after tf2 makes you troon out like the rest of its playerbase.
>>736305431Your strange hate boner for TF2 does not change the fact it has done remarkably well for a nearly 19 year old game. Stop getting hung up on the term "outlive".TF2 has more cultural presence on the internet than anything with similar numbers. This is part of the reason people say "outlive" since the community is alive when others seems to die out even if the game itself hasn't died.
>>736306414>dude goes through all this bullshit trying to claim TF2 isn't outliving all the other hero shooters>... and declares victory because a hybrid hero shooter aint dead yet.>can't even come up with valorantDude. You argued so shittily that in the meantime I already looked up more games to argue FOR your side of things.
>>736306495>>736306562Keep seething. I'm not going to waste the effort reading your posts. I can tell you're samefagging by the lack of thread bumps, keep replying to me tranny. I own you.
>>736306921>dude starts having a meltie because I came up with a better argument than he did, FASTER than he did, just by googling.ok retard lmao
>>736306921I COMMAND THEE TO READ THINE POSTSI HAVEST DOMINION OVER THEE PEASANTAVAST I AM DEFEATED, HE SHALL NOT READ MINE POSTNOOOOOO
It’s neither a hero or class shooter - it’s a nigger shooter.
>>736305072It's just a lot of attempting to pretend there's any real logical rules at play here. It's too easy to point out any exceptions to any rule anyone attempts to make. Like having loadouts.It really is just a question of whether it's a character or a class you're picking and that distinction gets blurred as fuck when games treat their classes as their own characters anyway. Hell the "well if they're their own characters there shouldn't be duplicates of them" argument doesn't work either because the majority of hero shooters let you pick the same hero someone on the other team has picked. The ones that don't are full on assfaggots like Deadlock, which people attempt to argue isn't a hero shooter anyway.
>enjoy playing medic>gameplay loop of healing teammates, ubering into sentries, getting crit heals, and avoiding death is entertaining>most of the time people just get mad when I ask them to not ignore the pyro that walks straight past them at me (a common occurrence in casual)>make an alt, make the profile picture some random girl I found on Tinder>play medic normally, but don't talk in any way>people are way more likely to protect me and sacrifice themselves so I can get away from danger>all I had to do was make my profile picture a girl
>>736307657Its almost like I made an argument here >>736303646to explain the context and how despite the blurred lines TF2 was clearly made within and developed within the context of a class shooter, while acknowledging said blurring>Deadlock, which people attempt to argue isn't a hero shooter anyway.yeah, because it isnt.Its trying to be a 3D FPS moba.
>>736297305The longer it went on, the more it had in common with hero shooters (soldier's trumpet, weapons on cooldown like Jarate), but it's definitely class-based at its core. For starters, each class has more than 1 gun and a punch. And that's more than every hero game I've ever seen.
>>736308089and some of the weapons are shared across several classes, like a number of shotguns
>>736308160good point
>>736307851Its almost like that was what I was referring to when saying it's just a lot of attempting to pretend there's any real logical rules at play here.>yeah, because it isnt.>Its trying to be a 3D FPS moba.It can be described in a lot of different ways (though not FPS, it's not first person after all), but it's making my point anyway.
>>736308263>its almost like that was what I was referring towell no, you weren't.There is no pretending going on>It can be described in a lot of different waysyeah there are a lot of retards out there that will incorrectly describe things.Its still not a hero shooter.Valve refuses to make anything unless they think they can make something new for a reason.
>>736297305Class basedBots
>>736302747I don't what else to tell you to make it clear, but in short, a class shooter features classes rather than 'this SPECIFIC hero/guy'.You are playing as A soldier or A engineer or A medic, rather than the 'Dude McDudeson, the Living Atom Bomb' or 'Sally St. Sarah, the Acrobat Extraordinaire'.
>>736297305>is this most definable class based shooter a hero game?
>>736297523Adding onto the other answers:Hero shooters are also autistic about thinking of personalities first, actual reasons for characters to fight in random configurations second. The match in a hero shooter can never be anything close to resembling the "canon" or "lore" of the game. The characters in TF2 are all mercs there for the money, so it's more akin to a class shooter in that regard.
>>736297523I would say, besides what others have said, the defining feature of a hero shooter is that each hero has some sort of ability/abilities they can activate off of a cooldown. TF2 doesn't really have anything like modern hero shooter abilities besides ubercharge for medic, which could be thought of as a sort of proto-'ultimate' ability.
>>736297523>>736297779Plants vs. Zombies: Garden Warfare is another example of a class-based shooter.
>>736310652that is a unique variant of what can only be called tower defence.
>>736297305Its potentially both but I lean towards class because in games like overwatch you play as a specific named character while in tf2 you just play as an archetype with a title despite those archetypes being actual characters with names in their comic canon.
>>736302747>So TF2 isn't a class-based shooters when they run highlanderNot really. Does SMT3 change genres because it has Puzzle Boy in it? It's still a jrpg. Highlander is just a game mode.
>>736310652Fucking thank you. I had some retard online tell me that GW2 is a "hero shooter"
>>736297523The best way for me to explain this is that every nigga in tf2 has a shotgun.Or how basically every nigga in starwars battlefront has the pistol.
>>736297305Because it's fun
>>736297305>How does it continue to outlive every modern hero shooterPretty much all of them are motivated by making as much money as possible in a way that's detrimental to the game. Meanwhile, TF2:>massive selection of maps with a ton of different gimmicks, especially the halloween ones>healthy variety of loadout options for different niches and playstyles, like a heavy that ambushes with the tomislav, the demoknight sub-class, scout becoming invulnerable but unable to attack for a period of time etc.>class-based design means that both teams can pick characters that would be considered unbalanced and it balances itself out, most classes counter each other so a large amount of specific classes can be countered by picking classes that are better against it>doesn't pursue a competitive audience, game is primarily casual>large teams of people where someone's individual impact or the lack thereof doesn't necessarily decide the game, less stress and pressure to perform well>no MMR/skill rating unless specifically playing the competitive mode, only the superficial experience bar that gives people an idea of how experienced who they're up against is, and it doesn't cover time spent in community servers>lots of community servers with fanmade maps and fanmade gamemodesThe game maintains a somewhat consistent 10k active players (the rest are idle item-farming bots) and it spikes whenever there's a seasonal update. Unfortunately the cosmetics probably contributed a lot to retaining players because gamers can barely play anything multiplayer these days without some long form "progression" mechanic.
>>736297305>And how does it continue to outlive every modern hero shooter of today?By cultivating community produced content; dedicated servers are the fertile soil in which this process begins.
>>736313454>People are still under the derangement that the near entirety of tf2's population is item farming botsAlways weird to see.
>playing against cheaters.>obviously rage baiting, team is falling for it.>I kill one and he immediately says I double taps with a FaN.>the other gets auto balanced to our team and I spec him.>dude can barely control his sensitivity, and rockets are just going off away from center.>Enemy cheater calls me out for spectating and said I am cheating from previous game>Team proceeds to vote kick meI really didn't care too much about the cheaters. Just my dumbass team easily fell for the lie and vote kicked me was what made me lose faith.
>>736317391Cheaters always protest too much when they start losing.Attention-seekers with fragile egos.
>>736316687It's true though, the number of players as reported by the game and the number of players currently playing in various servers is very different. Someone launched hundreds of giftapults and more than half of them landed on bot-like accounts. Pic related is a screenshot I took now of a chart that tracks the number of players in different servers.
